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[The Infamous Fish]

The title to book 7 was originally posted on JK Rowling's website behind the door with the "do not disturb" sign. There is a thread explaining how to find out here (though the door is now closed now, so the information won't work any more). However seeing as there is that other thread there, then please, no offence, go check that thread out if you desire to squee about the new title and say how much you like it and stuff.

Ok, The title to the new book is Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows

NOTE: the title is "hallows" not "hollows". Do not confuse these, please. It's an easy mistake to make. When I first saw it, I thought it said Hollows, and went off about caves and Godric's Hollow and all that stuff (thus the notes in the first few posts after this noting my error). But I was wrong. Misread it. How could I do that? Anyway, remember: hallows

Here is my question: what does "Deathly Hallows" mean? Well, for thought, here is what the American Heritage Dictionary tells us about the word "Hallow":

hal·low (hāl'ō)
tr.v. hal·lowed, hal·low·ing, hal·lows

To make or set apart as holy.
To respect or honor greatly; revere.

Ok, so "hallow" means to make holy or to honor greatly. If used as a noun, it would mean literally "holy things." This could mean a holy object, a holy place, or a holy person. The original name for halloween (All Hallows' Eve) is derived from its being the day before All Hallows' Day. All Hallow's Day is now called "All Saints' Day." In this usage, "Hallows" is being used as a noun to refer to a saint, which is a holy person. However, hallow could mean, as I said, a holy place or a holy object as well.

But what does it mean that these "hallows" are "deathly"?

The AHD says:

death·ly [deth-lee]
adjective
1. causing death; deadly; fatal.
2. like death: a deathly silence.
3. of, pertaining to, or indicating death; morbid: a deathly odor from the sepulcher.
adverb
4. in the manner of death.
5. very; utterly: deathly afraid.

So what do you think? Hallows of the dead? Or Hallows that could kill? It could mean a lot of things. Let the discussion begin!
-Fish

This post has been edited by savingharry: Mar 13 2007, 02:03 PM

[NickHilton]

First up i think you'll find it's Hallows not Hollows.

I'm now going to reveal what i think will become the universally accepted revelation. Sirius is back.

As we all know the Veil left alot of questions un answered and people can only guess as to what it is/does. To Hallow something is to consecrate it, to make it sacred, immortal. There is no such noun as Hallow so JK has made the word up, which nsuggests it's a process. I'm guessing that the veil, is what learned wizards might call a Hallow. Therefore i'm guessing when you go through it you are consecrated, made holy. Again the fact it's plural, Hallows, means there is more than one and iu'm guessing Harry will have to find them in his quest, or will rndomly encounter them. Hallows could also be an abreviation of Hallowed Ones, people who have been consecrate, i.e. Dead but made immortal, i.e. Sirius...

I'll leave you to say what you think...

Nick

[SpinJam]

Fish,

You need to recheck the site the second word is Hallows as in All Hallows Eve.

Deathly Hallows - the night Harry's parents died, the night that the troll attacked Hogwarts, etc.

Check it out again, I thought I was tripping when I saw your post, but I double checked, and it's hAllows.

SpinJam

[Velvet]

I have just run over here from begging you to describe your theory (darn, I'm such a slow typer )

what a fantastic theory, and I'm not prejudice in anyway by desperately wanting sirius to come back *ahem*

it actually makes sense and fits in with another theoryy about the black, red and white aspects, and rebirth (I think, the rubeus was the red, DD was white - I can't remember to be honest) I shall have to look it up again, but I seem to remember that it said that Sirius (or DD) would come back and that the transition was necessary.

Hallowed Ones, people who have been consecrate, i.e. Dead but made immortal, i.e. Sirius...

That fits so well, especially given the 'death' associated with him, booth symbolic and literal, Hmmm you have definitely given me a lot to ponder

also, I love that I can wangle my Sirius is the person who shall do magic 'late' (late as in dead) in life theory which died a horrible death (I actually hurt myself on that terrible pun)

- Thank you

[The Infamous Fish]

Ok guys! thanks for checking me on that! I was so confused! I gues even great minds can make mistakes sometimes! I fixed the first thread now, so it's fixed. Anyway, what do you guys think Deathly Hallows means?

-fish

*edit*

Ok, I have been thinking about what Deathly Hallows means (I'm gonna be typing hollows for a week now). Here is something a co-worker and I pondered. What about horcruxes? The title basically means Harry Potter and the Deathly Concecrations (though in a much more poetic form). A horcrux would be a way of concecrating your soul (something deathly), preserving it. Or, looked at another way, of concecrating an object by endowing it with your soul. Perhaps all the people that said "Harry Potter and the Horcruxes" were right, in a way.

It could also mean Deathly Sacrifice, Deathly Sancitication, Deathly Honoring, etc. Perhaps the title means several things?

-Fish

[SpinJam]

People, people,
You're missing the biggest clue ever. Harry's parents died on All Hallow's Eve: Halloween. Book 7 is all about the night they died, and Harry didn't. He wouldn't be here, and we wouldn't even be reading any of these books. Okay sorry, getting a little tense. But I really don't think it has anything to do with Sirius, or consecration. Maybe the big showdown between Harry and LV will take place on Halloween?

[The Infamous Fish]

Hmm.... It was pointed out before (but I never took notice) that something always happens to harry on halloween in the books (I can't remember what all happens. help?) Perhaps that day is now cursed in some way? That would be interesting. What if the title has multiple meanings? I like the idea of halloween, though. but hopefully that won't mean we have to wait until halloween to get it. But I don't know about the final fight being on halloween. I mean, Harry's got too much to do. I think she'll give him the whole year. I think there's gotta be too much going on for her just to jam the last book into a few months.

-Fish

[NickHilton]

People, people,
You're missing the biggest clue ever. Harry's parents died on All Hallow's Eve: Halloween. Book 7 is all about the night they died, and Harry didn't. He wouldn't be here, and we wouldn't even be reading any of these books. Okay sorry, getting a little tense. But I really don't think it has anything to do with Sirius, or consecration. Maybe the big showdown between Harry and LV will take place on Halloween?

SpinJam~ There's no denying the relevance of Halloween. It may all boil down to happening on that night, however i think we need to look more closely at the word Hallow, and the origins of Halloween.

Halloween, or All Hallows Eve, is the evening following All Hallow's Day.It's originally a Pagan festival, here is what Wikipedia says about the Celtic origins.

According to what can be reconstructed of the beliefs of the ancient Celts, the bright half of the year ended around November 1 or on a Moon-phase near that date, or at the time of first frost. The day is referred to in modern Gaelic as Samhain ("Sow-in" or alternatively "Sa-ven", meaning: End of the Summer). After the adoption of the Roman calendar with its fixed months, the date began to be celebrated independently of the Moon's phases.

As October 31st is the last day of the bright half of the year, the next day also meant the beginning of Winter, which the Celts often associated with human death, and with the slaughter of livestock to provide meat for the coming Winter. The Celts also believed that on October 31, the boundary separating the dead from the living became blurred. There is a rich and unusual myth system at work here; the spirit world, the residence of the "Sídhe," as well as of the dead, was accessible through burial mounds. These mounds opened at two times during the year, Samhain and Beltane, making the beginning and end of Summer highly spiritually resonant.

The Celts' survival during the cold harsh winters depended on the prophecies of their priests and priestesses (druids), and the accurate prediction of how much food would be needed to sustain the people before the next harvest. They believed that the presence of spirits would aid in the ability to make accurate predictions about the coming year.

The exact customs observed in each Celtic region differ, but they generally involved the lighting of bonfires and the reinforcement of boundaries, across which malicious spirits might be prevented from crossing and threatening the community.

Like most observances around this season, warmth and comfort were emphasised, indulgence was not. Stores of preserved food were needed to last through the winter, not for parties.

I have highlighted what i consider the key points. As we know JKR takes alot of her material from Ancient traditions. I highlighted the fact that Halloween is seen as trhe time when boundries between the Dead and the Living become blurred, *cough cough* (kudos to my theory.) . I now suggest that these Sidhe are effectively reincarnated in the veil, or as i would describe them Hallows...

Discuss.

Nick

[SpinJam]

SavingHarry:
In book 1 Ron, Harry and Hermione fight the troll
book 2 - Headless Nicks death day party, Basilisk attacks its first victim
book 3 Sirius gets into Hogwarts
book 4 - Goblet of Fire selects Harry as a champion
book 5 - first meeting of the DA at the Hogshead I think? (don't quote me on this)
book 6 - Nothing. go figure.

Nick,
Okay I see your point about the barriers of the living and the dead becoming blurred, and am happy with the relevance of the argument. I will never say that I don't *want* Sirius to come back, but I am prepared to be disappointed. *sigh*

[Velvet]

I highlighted the fact that Halloween is seen as the time when boundaries between the Dead and the Living become blurred, *cough cough* (kudos to my theory.) .

Indeed, the theory pertaining to the veil being the boundary between living and dead has been well documented and consequently, SpinJams comments appear to concur significantly with Nicks original post, as nick subsequently himself points out (rather than go against), which would provide one unifying theory, and as suggested by savingharry, the title may refer to all these not-so-separate aspects

I never considered that, good going Nick


I'm still searching for my aforementioned black/red/white theory, I really can't remember where I saw it - sorry, but I am determined to find it as if it states that the black aspect is the reborn then it could add further support

also, for some reason, if it is similar in nature, then the pagan factors associated with Hallow may somehow link to the description of Hagrid as a 'greenman' type figure, although I may be digressing a little too much

but I am prepared to be disappointed. *sigh*

hehe I'm like that too, I am so willing for him to come back, hence my own 'late magic' theory, and avid support of Nicks' but have a little corner in my mind filled with fluffy cushions and firewhisky ready for the crash landing, just incase,

[El Barto]

Hey guys, I posted in the theory titled Book Reflections Theory about how certain books are related to each other in a wierd way, with book 4 being the "corner stone" so to speak.

Its basically where each book's plot is reflected in some sort of way...guess we'll have to see, but what I said about this...

If I understand this correctly, the books are linked by their plots:

5-1
6-2
7-3

Makes you think...what do five minus one, six minus two, and seven minus three all equal?

When you put the titles together to make a sentence you get:

The Order of the Phoenix is linked to the Philosopher's Stone
The Half-Blood Prince is linked to the Chamber of Secrets
The Deathly Hallows is linked to the Prisoner of Azkaban
(or the other way around)

What do you guys think of this? Sounds interesting but it is most likely far fetched.

Edit: I'm not saying or hoping we see Sirius again. I've never really been a supporter of him coming back somehow...but perhaps it truly is about the night the Potters' were killed. I meant Prisoner of Azkaban the book as a whole rather than the person it was refering to

[NickHilton]

Thought i'd check out a bit more on these Sidhe...

Something interesting i found is that JKR has already indirectly referenced the Sidhe. Banshee's are creatures that are spourned from Sidhe, so perhaps...

The Celtic Other World is seen as being closer at the times of dusk and dawn, therefore this is seen as a time special to the Sídhe, as are some of the festivals such as Samhain and Midsummer. The Sídhe are generally described as stunningly beautiful, though they can also be terrible and hideous.

Samhain is the Celtic word for Halloween.

The Archway had a massive lure to Luna and Harry, whereas Ron, Hermione and Ginny were all uninterested in it and eager to get away from it. Where they all seeing the same thing? Ron, Hermy and Ginny may have been seeing a decrepid, Crumbling and Sinister archway, whereas Harry and Luna saw something more beautiful and peaceful. This is all guesswork, but it would explain the reason why Ron, Hermione and Ginny reacted so differently from Harry and wanted to get away from the Arch...

Nick

EDIT: El Barto, this would suggest we be seeing more of Sirius

[ViviPotter]

I agree with El Barto. Sirius could be connected to Deathly Hallows. I think we need a little more information on Deathly Hallows before we can be sure.

But, what if Deathly Hallows is like a person (or the Grim Reaper )? Would that mean that Sirius has, like, a brother or something?

I also agree that the title could mean many things. I like the idea of the final battle being on Halloween. That would be kinda cool. But then Harry would have to find all the remaining Horcruxes really fast.

[Uglybaldboy]

Just another little bit about Hallows. This is what Wikipedia says about the Christian meaning of it, and how it relates to Halloween:

The festival of All Saints, also sometimes known as All Hallows or Hallowmas ("hallows" meaning "saints," and "mas" meaning "Mass"), is a feast celebrated in the honour of all the saints, known and unknown. Halloween is the day preceding it, and is so named because it is "The Eve of All Hallows". All Saints is also a Christian formula invoking all the faithful saints and martyrs, known or unknown.

I wonder if this relates to Harry's love for those that have left him, such as his parents.

[NickHilton]

Maryrdom...Sirius...

That being said i very much doubt that JKR will take any of her info from Christian lore, rather from Celtic and Roman. She's been criticised enough over her anti-god books, and doesn't want to politicise herself, by taking religious sides, as many of her readers are Muslim, Hindu, Jewish...etc.

Nick