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[passerby]

Hi, guys. With the advent of the new poll and with over 700 posts, it is time to give you a shiny new thread! The old thread can be found here, if you want to brush up on what's been going on.

hp6 has very kindly written a summary of the arguments presented thus far in previous threads and I would respectfully request that EVERYONE, particularly newcomers, take the time to read this before replying because otherwise, you run the risk of your post being ignored because you're just re-hashing things that have been said before. No one wants to be ignored, and I don't think it's asking too much to just read this rather than four previous threads

Happy debating!!

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Theory For Harry being a Horcrux 1

When Voldemort turned on Harry after murdering Lily, the Avada Kedevra that he sent to Harry rebounded on himself, destroying his body. This cataclysmic event of the Destruction of Lord Voldemort’s Body released magic, the essence of life force, and power into the air in an explosion. This expulsion of energy leveled the house but left Harry seemingly unharmed. My main premise of my theory is that in times of extreme stress the wizard will unintentionally produce a spell that will outwardly portray their emotions... just like we saw in PoA with Harry and Aunt Marge.... with this in mind I believe that Voldemort’s deepest desire, his most powerful obsession, his driving force ....was his passion to find a way for him to be Immortal. Considering he was going to consummate the creation of his Horcruxes, it is very likely that was in the foremost of his mind. Ok with this said I believe that when the release of magic from his body occurred it portrayed his need for self-preservation, his need for immortality, but focusing the magic to the creation of a horcrux. This would explain the unknown events of that night, as well as why Voldemort was trying to kill Harry in the first 5 books.. he didn't know he was Horcrux...



Theory For Harry Being A Horcrux 2


Voldemort hears the prophecy and knows he must kill Harry (or Neville) but chooses Harry. He shows up at Godric’s Hollow intending to make his 7th horcrux, his plan is to put his soul in Harry’s dead body. He kills James and Lily. He sets up his horcrux, by performing the spell, intentionally aiming for Harry, because with Harry’s murder the soul will be split and enter Harry’s dead body. He sends the Avada Kedevra at Harry, but it rebounds off of Lilly’s love protection, and kills Voldemort instead. Voldemort’s horcruxes act like an anchor, and keep his soul in this world, instead of allowing it to enter the after life. Voldemort's death is the murder that lets the split soul free. The soul reaches its intended target (Harry), only Harry isn’t dead. The Love Protection allows the soul to enter Harry because the soul is dormant and poses no threat to Harry. In books 1-4 Voldemort is trying to kill Harry, not knowing he is a horcrux. But in Ootp Voldemort possesses Harry at the ministry, and finds another piece of his soul is in Harry. In Half Blood Prince Voldemort is trying to figure out how to kill Harry without destroying the horcrux, so he goes after Dumbledore instead of Harry.



Theory For Harry Being a Horcrux 3

I really do think Harry is a horcrux. What else could produce such strong likenesses and the ability to see into each others minds as Harry and Voldemort do? The magical bond and bridge between them has been mentioned and talked about between Harry and Dumbledore, but it has never been named! What other sort of magic could cause this? A horcrux is indeed putting part of yourself into something else. Voldemort had given Harry some of his powers (and maybe more) that night when he came to kill Harry, and as in Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets at the end, Harry confirms with Dumbledore, "So, Voldemort transferred a bit of himself into me?" Dumbledore replies by saying yes, and saying that it was not intentional, he was sure. Now, many say, how could such a powerful wizard like Voldemort do something like that unintentionally? Well, even Dumbledore says he thinks Voldemort did it unintentionally. Why had Voldemort become so weak that night after he tried to kill Harry? It's because he already had most of his horcruxes made, and we know that horcruxes are a horrible, soul-splitting thing. Voldemort had possibly already made all of the horcruxes he intended to make, knowing that if he did more, it could make him feeble. Know one knows why Voldemort lost his powers that night, and why Harry and Voldemort have a sort of magical bond between each other, and I think that a horcrux explains that all. But one more thing caught my eye as I re-read the Order of the Phoenix for the third time: A tear streaked down Dumbledore's face when he was finally telling Harry about the prophecy. I strongly think this is because Dumbledore is the sole person who knows that Harry is a horcrux, and thus knowing that he will soon have to devastatingly tell Harry he is a horcrux, bringing Harry to the terrible reality that he will have to destroy himself after destroying the rest of the horcruxes (including Voldemort himself) if Harry is determined to finish off Lord Voldemort. J.K. Rowling does however have a knack for surprising her readers, and she very well may introduce a new way of extracting a horcrux out of a human without killing that human, but this may indeed be a bit of a big thing to suddenly introduce in the very last book of the series.

Theory for Harry being a Horcrux 4
To fully understand this theory you should first read the theory on what Long Live the Weasle King! believes a soul to be in the world JK Rowling has created. It may be found HERE.

We know Voldemort planned to create a Horcrux with the death of Harry. The author tells us so through her character Dumbledore, and she tells us to accept this character's theories as fact through her character Lupin. I believe a Horcrux must be created by preparing an object to accept the "soul-energy" one is planning on transferring to it. Inanimate objects do not have souls, so it seems reasonable to me that one must prepare the object through various magical means beforehand in order for it to hold this "energy". Part of the reason I believe this is because Slughorn says the creation of a Horcrux is complicated. If it were as simple as killing someone then waving your wand and saying a word (the extent of most spells) then it is not exactly complicated.

Now, living creatures are already capable of holding soul energy because they have souls of their own. They have "lifeforce" which can be harnessed and used by various creatures in the HP universe, viz. Papermort and Dementors and such. This would help to explain why Voldemort would use Nagini in the first place, because he was in a vastly weakened state, not to mention a hurry, so he was not able to prepare an object to accept his "bit of self". Living objects, however, make imperfect vessels for laundry reasons. Namely, they have a soul and consciousness of their own which may lead them to act contrary to your wishes unless you are able to dominate them, which V attempts to do. Also, they tend to grow old, die, and decompose. I doubt dust retains its horcrux abilities.

Now, keep all that in mind as we examine the topic at hand. Knowing that Voldemort was planning on creating his final horcrux that night with the most significant murder of all, that of the one person with the power to defeat him, we can surmise that he had some object prepared and on his person to accept the "bit of himself" which would be torn from him when he committed this murder.

Things did not go according to plan, however.

When he attempted to kill Harry the Avada Kedavara curse "rebounded" (that is the exact word used on several occasions in the books) upon him, leaving Harry with but a cut on his forehead whilst completely destroying Voldemort's body. One of the main arguments against Harry being a Horcrux is that Voldemort then never had time to "cast the spell" which would create a Horcrux. However, that assumes the spell must be cast after the fact. We know that one is capable of choosing which murder creates the rip which allows a piece of the soul to be transfered to another object. It is my contention that Voldemort chose, at the time he cast the spell intended to murder Harry, to transfer the bit of soul which would be torn free from the main. When the spell rebounded it struck Voldemort, taking a human life, and causing a bit of soul to be torn free. It then traveled back along the magical conduit created by the spell connecting Harry's forehead to Voldemort's exploding body.

As Harry did not have an object capable of containing "soul-energy" it went to the only place left for it to reside. Harry himself.


Theory Against Harry being a Horcrux 1

Voldemort using the Avada Kedevra on Harry caused the love charm to react and blocked the curse (but did not deflect it, the curse never went near Harry so it wasn't deflected but was blocked). The curse having been blocked, does not know what to do, is unable to break through the love charm and has no direction to go (there was a barrier that kept the curse from even exiting the wand and kept it from going towards Harry). The curse needed to exit so it tried to go in the opposite direction of the barrier, towards Voldemort. Voldemort being immortal, cannot die and the horcruxes are at work preventing Voldemort from dieing. So now there is another barrier around Voldemort that prevents the curse from hitting him too. Now the poor Avada Kedevra being stuck between two barriers is so confused. The spell just plain goes nuts and it completely destroys Voldemort’s body. The destruction causes bits of Voldemort flying everywhere. It sends the soul away from the area, and the ability to speak parsletongue and the other abilities that Voldemort has/had went and hit everything around the room. Harry, also being in the room is hit by some of the powers and consumes it. The scar I believe was a dead piece of Voldemort’s clothing or something that was not destroyed and flew straight at Harry, hitting him in the head. The piece of debris on Harry's head was destroyed just by touching Harry but left a scar from the injury. Explaining how Harry got Voldemort’s powers, but not soul.

The connections with Voldemort. I believe that Harry received the talent of Legilimency that Voldemort had as well. Harry did not know how to use it and was using it unconsciously. Being then the two greatest Legilimens in the world would obviously allow long distance Legilimency but only with each other and no one else at those distances. I have some evidence that Harry could be a great Legilimens: In philosopher's stone, Voldemort tried tempting Harry to give him the stone and join him. But Harry saw through the lie and said "NEVER!" then Voldemort decided to kill Harry instead and that story goes on and on. But the fact that Harry saw through the lie. Voldemort had an excellent way of getting people to do what he wants. In the memory of Slughorn in the half-blood prince, Voldemort uses his excellent lying skills to get what he wants. So for Harry seeing through the lie means more then just being stubborn.

Explanation for the Soul Tearing 1

The soul becomes corrupt as more and more evil acts occur and that the tearing or removing of soul pieces is a process of getting rid of the clean/pure parts, making the original soul eventually completely evil.

Spiritual Touch Theory 1

This is based on the belief that there is spiritual touch and physical touch, so if Voldemort’s soul did enter Harry’s body the two souls would have touched and Harry would have known. This comes from the fact that when a ghost walks through a person they feel an unpleasant cold shiver.


Spiritual Touch Theory 2

The soul is kept in a separate world, so when Voldemort’s soul entered Harry’s body the two never had any contact, which explains why Harry does not know he is a horcrux.

Horcrux Possession Theory 1

All horcruxes have a mind of there own and they want to possess a living body. Ginny Weasley was being possessed by the horcrux in the diary. Albus Dumbledore’s hand was turned black because the horcrux in the ring attempted to take control of him. This makes Harry being a Horcrux impossible because the soul in him would attempt to possess him, and try to kill him like Tom Riddle tried to kill Ginny Weasley in the Chamber of Secrets.

Horcrux Possession Theory 2

The diary was a special horcrux and because the diary could communicate with the outside world it was able to possess Ginny. Other horcruxes can not possess people. In the Chamber Tom Riddle was trying to come back as himself and not possess Ginny, he was feeding off her life force, and that is why she was dying.

Horcrux Creation Theory 1

The spell is cast before you commit the murder, this gives your split soul the directions it needs to get into your predestinated horcrux. This also explains why ministry aurors who have murdered do not have split souls in random objects.

Horcrux Creation Theory 2

The spell is said after the murder is committed, the murder tears the soul, and the horcrux spell splits the soul and allows it to enter your desired object.

Horcrux Creation 3

This is a combination of theories 1 and 2. The horcrux spell can be said before the murder takes place, giving your soon to be split soul directions (like map quest) to you desired object, or you can perform the spell after the murder, splitting the soul and directing it to your object of choice.

Voldemort' Death Theories
These are links to threads that discuss the different possibilities of Voldemort's death.

The Phantom Death Theory
The Imprint Theory

**If you have been actively following this discussion and something needs to be added, deleted from these summaries, please PM me, and I will edit them in.

[Black Eyed Pea]

I don't think Harry is a horcrux. For one, as passerby mentioned in Theory 4, the house was blown to smithereens. This couldn't be a result of the Avada Kedavra curse, because in Ootp, the Ministry of Magic fountain was destroyed because it was hit once or several times with the curse . If Voldemort wanted to make Harry a horcrux after killing him, it wouldn't have been easy, because Harry being a baby, so tiny and fragile, would have been blown to bits : the turning Harry into a horcrux theory has a loophole . Also, even if a bit of Voldemort's soul was "poured" into Harry , that means that Harry would have had amazing casting ability in spells. Remember, not all powers are in speaking (Parseltongue), sleeping (visions Harry has), etc, but in spell casting ability, and Harry can't exactly be compared evenly to Hermione in classes, as Riddle did very well in school .

[Albus Dumbledore]

For one, as passerby mentioned in Theory 4, the house was blown to smithereens. This couldn't be a result of the Avada Kedavra curse, because in Ootp, the Ministry of Magic fountain was destroyed because it was hit once or several times with the curse . If Voldemort wanted to make Harry a horcrux after killing him, it wouldn't have been easy, because Harry being a baby, so tiny and fragile, would have been blown to bits :

Im not understanding what you are saying here. The Avada Kedavra never touched Harry because of his mother's sacrifice. Also, a side note, the Avada Kedavra is only used for the murder, giving the necessary tear in the soul for the later process of Horcrux making. You must also remember, that the effects of the Avada Kedavra are different on non-living objects then on living things. With a living thing, it wipes all life from it, leaving no marks. But with an inanimate object, it destroys it. So the fact that Baby Harry was no "blown to bits" doesnt prove anything.

Also, even if a bit of Voldemort's soul was "poured" into Harry , that means that Harry would have had amazing casting ability in spells. Remember, not all powers are in speaking (Parseltongue), sleeping (visions Harry has), etc, but in spell casting ability, and Harry can't exactly be compared evenly to Hermione in classes, as Riddle did very well in school .

I also disagree with that. I believe some of the powers of Lord Voldemort were transferred to Harry in the botched accidental Horcrux making. I also think that Horcruxes, in nature, are dormant, and would not cause Harry to be better at spells like Tom Riddle. I do believe, however, that some traits were transferred during the link between them due to the fact that magic was released from the destruction of Voldemort's body. These exposed traits, like the ability to speak Parseltongue, were transferred along with the dormant Horcrux that night.

~Albus

[Regulus Black]

I dont think harry is a horcrux, mainy due to theory 4 saying.

Now, keep all that in mind as we examine the topic at hand. Knowing that Voldemort was planning on creating his final horcrux that night with the most significant murder of all, that of the one person with the power to defeat him, we can surmise that he had some object prepared and on his person to accept the "bit of himself" which would be torn from him when he committed this murder.[quote]

I think he had the object with him, but when he was destroyed it was left behind either as a horcrux made form voldemorts death or not as a horcrux at all. I also think that when haryy goes to godrics hollow he will find the said item, either buried with his parents or somwhere else in the villlage.

Dumbledore also says voldemort was going to use harrys death to make the final horcrux, if he had killed harry why would he use harrys body as a horcrux, and not somthing of bigger imprtance to himself.

[pumpkinjuice]

I'm tempted by the idea that LV had the object with him and that it was grabbed up by someone as things went wrong or shortly afterward. The problem with this is that the whole house was destroyed, we are told. The only thing left supposedly is Harry. So either Harry is that horcrux, or the horcrux object was pulverized with everything else.

It would be interesting if LV had a horcrux with him (one he had already made) or if somehow he had already begun enchanting some object with receiving or protecting spells, such that that accounts for part of the force of the magical blast.

What if there is a limit on the number of horcruxes you can have, which no one really knows because no one besides LV has tried it. What if LV was ripped from his body because he was in the process of horcruxing when the AK backfired, and having exceeded his limit of soul-parts, the consequence was his being turned into a soul that could achieve no more by way of a body than that weird fetal thing for which we have yet to have an explanation. Maybe he assumed that form because his last horcrux, unbeknownst to himself, was in the baby he was trying to kill to make the last one? Maybe it would make sense that his physical form would be somehow less than the last horcrux he made; the least human you can be would be fetal I suppose.

[rachel_1989]

I'm tempted by the idea that LV had the object with him and that it was grabbed up by someone as things went wrong or shortly afterward. The problem with this is that the whole house was destroyed, we are told. The only thing left supposedly is Harry. So either Harry is that horcrux, or the horcrux object was pulverized with everything else.

There is a third possibility I guess in that the item, having been charmed with protection spells and the like survived the blast that destroyed the rest of the house and because the rest of the house was completely destroyed nobody thought to look for anything of interest; Hagrid wouldn't have looked for it since his orders from Dumbledore were to retrieve Harry and take him to Dumbledore in Surrey so he was unlikely to hang around searching through the rubble looking for items of interest. Besides he was unlikely to know what to look for anyway, for a start not even Dumbledore really knew about the horcruxes back then; he may have suspected but he didn't know for sure until Harry's second year.

What if there is a limit on the number of horcruxes you can have, which no one really knows because no one besides LV has tried it. What if LV was ripped from his body because he was in the process of horcruxing when the AK backfired, and having exceeded his limit of soul-parts, the consequence was his being turned into a soul that could achieve no more by way of a body than that weird fetal thing for which we have yet to have an explanation. Maybe he assumed that form because his last horcrux, unbeknownst to himself, was in the baby he was trying to kill to make the last one? Maybe it would make sense that his physical form would be somehow less than the last horcrux he made; the least human you can be would be fetal I suppose.

I doubt there's a given limit other than that which the person looking to create sets themselves. After all, there must have been plenty of dark witches/wizards before Voldemort and yet none of them ever created more than a single horcrux; surely this means something? If it's that bad to create a single horcrux then I doubt that there would be any need for further magical boundaries that limit the number of soul pieces a person can create; it would just be down to how evil they were and how willing they were to mutilate their own soul beyond human evil.

Also, even if a bit of Voldemort's soul was "poured" into Harry , that means that Harry would have had amazing casting ability in spells. Remember, not all powers are in speaking (Parseltongue), sleeping (visions Harry has), etc, but in spell casting ability, and Harry can't exactly be compared evenly to Hermione in classes, as Riddle did very well in school

This isn't exactly true, while Hermione might pick up the techniques and ability to cast spells faster than Harry does it is evident that Harry is an incredibly talented wizard, he managed to do enough magic in his first two years to thwart Voldemort twice, learnt to cast a corpeal patronus in his thirs, won the Triwizard Tournament as well as escaping Voldemort and beating him to causing Priori Incantatum in his fourth, gained access to the department of mysteries aided in the capture of several Death Eaters and thwarted Voldemort once more in his plains to obtain the prophecy as well as secretly teaching others how to perform a lot of the magic he has learnt thus far to his fellow students, both older and younger in his fifth and helped Dumbledore through the cave on the hunt for a horcrux and fought Death Eaters in Hogwarts in his sixth year so while Hermione may have a natural ability for spell casting, Harry is more than capable of doing the same magic as Hermione and more often than not in much more stressful situations than Hermione has had to cast in so I think that Harry is at least equal to if not better than both Hermione and Tom Riddle.

[Albus Dumbledore]

There is a third possibility I guess in that the item, having been charmed with protection spells and the like survived the blast that destroyed the rest of the house and because the rest of the house was completely destroyed nobody thought to look for anything of interest; Hagrid wouldn't have looked for it since his orders from Dumbledore were to retrieve Harry and take him to Dumbledore in Surrey so he was unlikely to hang around searching through the rubble looking for items of interest.

There is some things I have discrepancies with here. First off, the house was not completely destroyed. In the book, Hagrid says "house was almost destroyed..." leaving the possibility for other artifacts to survive, even though I stand firmly that Harry was made into a Horcrux that night, unintentionally of course. We must remember that Voldemort's wand survived, and someone had to retrieve it, so if a wand could survive, I think something else could have as well.

On the second part of your paragraph, about Hagrid's orders. Hagrid had a full 24 hours nearly before having to be at Privet Drive. Where did he go? I speculate some Order of the Phoenix safe house in Wales because of the flight pattern he took to get to Surrey. So Hagrid would have had time, but the conflict there would have been endangering Harry any more than needed.

while Hermione may have a natural ability for spell casting, Harry is more than capable of doing the same magic as Hermione and more often than not in much more stressful situations than Hermione has had to cast in so I think that Harry is at least equal to if not better than both Hermione and Tom Riddle.

I had to select that quote in that manner, I apologize, but there were no periods to mark sentences, so I may be in the middle of one! Anyway, I disagree completely with your last statement. Harry may be better at the practical application of Magic in fighting, but he has so far not surmounted that of the Dark Lord. Each time he has escaped the Dark Lord on chance and luck, and bravery on his part.... not really magical prowess. The three most powerful wizards in the world, in my opinion, (in order) Dumbledore, Lord Voldemort and Severus Snape. We see from Harry's fight with Snape that he had no chance. Snape just overpowered him magically with ease. So to say he is better than Lord Voldemort is inaccurate.

~Albus

[pumpkinjuice]

First off, the house was not completely destroyed. In the book, Hagrid says "house was almost destroyed..." leaving the possibility for other artifacts to survive, even though I stand firmly that Harry was made into a Horcrux that night, unintentionally of course. We must remember that Voldemort's wand survived, and someone had to retrieve it, so if a wand could survive, I think something else could have as well.

On the second part of your paragraph, about Hagrid's orders. Hagrid had a full 24 hours nearly before having to be at Privet Drive. Where did he go? I speculate some Order of the Phoenix safe house in Wales because of the flight pattern he took to get to Surrey. So Hagrid would have had time, but the conflict there would have been endangering Harry any more than needed.

Harry may be better at the practical application of Magic in fighting, but he has so far not surmounted that of the Dark Lord. Each time he has escaped the Dark Lord on chance and luck, and bravery on his part.... not really magical prowess.

Albus, I chopped up your post to the things I wanted to respond to, as I havent taught myself how to do that multiple quote thingie....anyhow:

About the house: You're right, maybe we are overblowing the destruction of the house. Some things did survive the blast.

About Hagrid's 24 hours: I'm curious about your possible reaction to a point I posted on another thread, which is this: when Hagrid takes Harry to the Leaky Cauldron on their way to Diagon Alley in PS, the barkeep says to Harry, "Welcome back, Mr Potter, welcome back". That strikes me as odd--maybe Hagrid brought Harry to the LC for something that day after the blast. It's possible the comment just means 'welcome back to the wizarding world' but that's not how other people greet him there--they all are just blown away by meeting this famous person. So if he was at the LC eleven years earlier, for what? DD would surely have wanted to examine the child, would he not? He does not do so at Privet Drive, so my suspicion is that he does it there at LC, as well as whatever other charm sealing he may do upon detecting Harry's protection.

About Harry's magic: Harry lacks certain magical skills and so is not as great a wizard in that sense as someone like DD, LV or SS. But his bravery, I would assert, IS part of his magic. Harry has magical abilities that are not a function of training but of heart. So maybe it's apples and oranges, but in some senses he already IS greater than LV.

[Albus Dumbledore]

About Hagrid's 24 hours: I'm curious about your possible reaction to a point I posted on another thread, which is this: when Hagrid takes Harry to the Leaky Cauldron on their way to Diagon Alley in PS, the barkeep says to Harry, "Welcome back, Mr Potter, welcome back". That strikes me as odd--maybe Hagrid brought Harry to the LC for something that day after the blast. It's possible the comment just means 'welcome back to the wizarding world' but that's not how other people greet him there--they all are just blown away by meeting this famous person. So if he was at the LC eleven years earlier, for what? DD would surely have wanted to examine the child, would he not? He does not do so at Privet Drive, so my suspicion is that he does it there at LC, as well as whatever other charm sealing he may do upon detecting Harry's protection.

Hmmm, perhaps... Dumbledore would have needed to place his charms and spells on his as he said he did, but at the scene is Privet Drive we do not see that. I've read your other thread I believe, and maybe I even posted in it, but I still think that Hagrid must have ended up in Wales somehow to have crossed Bristol on his way to Little Whinging.

But it all comes back to one thing. Is Harry a Horcrux? What does it hold in store for him if he is? Was He a Horcrux and it has since been, unknowingly, removed? I would think that if Harry was a Horcrux, then something may be prevalent in the taking of his blood for Voldemort's resurrection. This may explain Dumbledore's Gleam of Triumph, and it may not. The thing I see against this "being a horcrux but isnt anymore" theory is one question... Why? Why would JKR not tell us anything until Book 7 that Harry was a Horcrux before, but isnt one now because of what happened 3 books earlier. It would be a pointless piece of information.

I am still convinced that the Avada Kedavra performed on Harry opened a split second link between him and the Dark Lord. In this time, as the curse rebounded, Voldemort's body was destroyed, ripping his soul from his body, as well as creating an unintentional Horcrux through the use of the uncontrolled release of Magic from his destruction. So along the path between him and Harry traveled a Horcrux, powers, and a mental link. Whether or not Harry needs to die to save the Wizarding world is still unknown to me though.

~Albus

[The Infamous Fish]

On the second part of your paragraph, about Hagrid's orders. Hagrid had a full 24 hours nearly before having to be at Privet Drive. Where did he go? I speculate some Order of the Phoenix safe house in Wales because of the flight pattern he took to get to Surrey. So Hagrid would have had time, but the conflict there would have been endangering Harry any more than needed.

About Hagrid's 24 hours: I'm curious about your possible reaction to a point I posted on another thread, which is this: when Hagrid takes Harry to the Leaky Cauldron on their way to Diagon Alley in PS, the barkeep says to Harry, "Welcome back, Mr Potter, welcome back". That strikes me as odd--maybe Hagrid brought Harry to the LC for something that day after the blast. It's possible the comment just means 'welcome back to the wizarding world' but that's not how other people greet him there--they all are just blown away by meeting this famous person. So if he was at the LC eleven years earlier, for what? DD would surely have wanted to examine the child, would he not? He does not do so at Privet Drive, so my suspicion is that he does it there at LC, as well as whatever other charm sealing he may do upon detecting Harry's protection.

Hmmm, perhaps... Dumbledore would have needed to place his charms and spells on his as he said he did, but at the scene is Privet Drive we do not see that. I've read your other thread I believe, and maybe I even posted in it, but I still think that Hagrid must have ended up in Wales somehow to have crossed Bristol on his way to Little Whinging.

You guys should really drop by the thread I started on this issue. Tom has, but Dr. Jude has yet to. I'd be interested to see what you guys thought of the current discussion. Perhaps you could liven it up a bit!

I would think that if Harry was a Horcrux, then something may be prevalent in the taking of his blood for Voldemort's resurrection. This may explain Dumbledore's Gleam of Triumph, and it may not. The thing I see against this "being a horcrux but isnt anymore" theory is one question... Why? Why would JKR not tell us anything until Book 7 that Harry was a Horcrux before, but isnt one now because of what happened 3 books earlier. It would be a pointless piece of information.

Exactly. If Harry was ever a horcrux, then he has to still be one now. It just doesn't make sense otherwise. No reason to include it. It doesn't provide us with anything profitable.

I don't know on the "gleam of triumpth"/taking blood issue. I still think that is something different. I don't know what, for the life of me, that could be, but I think it has to be something different than the horcrux thing. I don't see how taking Harry's blood would have done anything other than perhaps strengthening him like Nagini's venom does (assuming that Voldemort gained power from drinking Nagini's venom because she is a horcrux). I guess I must be missing the connection.

-Fish

[pumpkinjuice]

The one thing that Harry having been a Horcrux but no longer being one would do narratively is pare down the search for the remaining ones, assuming that search will indeed be important in book 7. Having said that, I doubt that the gleam of triumph would allude to DD seeing that a horcrux had been eliminated, since he would indeed have corrected Harry's "admirable summary" of the list of horcruxes. So if Harry is de-horcruxed it is without DD's knowledge. And that does seem unreasonable, tho DD says nothing about the de-horcruxed locket he has with him all the way back from the cave, so....(assuming the absence of magical protections would have been obvious to him).

So I think it's reasonable to say its an either or--either he never was or he still is. I am still unclear why DD would either not know or choose not to correct Harry's tragically erroneous list. Or, the list is not erroneous, and the "something of Gryffendor's" is in fact Harry himself, and DD says nothing because DD often says nothing. That just doesnt fit with the urgency of the trip to the cave, tho....You'd think he'd be a little more anxious to share critical information knowing that danger lies ahead at the cave as well as in the castle (cuz I dont think for a minute that DD was unaware that DE's were on the premises--I cannot believe that him summoning Harry at that moment that the DE's had gotten through was an accident).

Something just occurred to me--some posit that DD has already been to the cave and takes Harry as some kind of tutorial. Playing with that idea, could RAB have left the note in between DD's visits? That would explain how RAB got through the enchantments that DD has to puzzle out, and would explain the fact that RAB says to LV, I wanted you to know it was I who discovered your secret and took the real horcrux, as in, I took it rather than DD--he watched/tracked DD to the cave. That could mean either that DD was there some time ago, or that RAB was "facing death" more recently than we surmised. Which would mean either that it's not Regulus or that Regulus was not dead when he supposedly got dead. Hmm...off topic, tho.....

[Albus Dumbledore]

So I think it's reasonable to say its an either or--either he never was or he still is. I am still unclear why DD would either not know or choose not to correct Harry's tragically erroneous list. Or, the list is not erroneous, and the "something of Gryffendor's" is in fact Harry himself, and DD says nothing because DD often says nothing. That just doesnt fit with the urgency of the trip to the cave, tho....You'd think he'd be a little more anxious to share critical information knowing that danger lies ahead at the cave as well as in the castle (cuz I dont think for a minute that DD was unaware that DE's were on the premises--I cannot believe that him summoning Harry at that moment that the DE's had gotten through was an accident).

For some reason, if Harry is a Horcrux, and Dumbledore knew.. I dont think he would tell him right then. Harry is just learning that he has to destroy these horcruxes in order to vanquish the Dark Lord and most likely would not react well to the knowledge that he himself is an obstacle that needs ridding of before Lord Voldemort can be gone. There are other ways that Harry can find out that he is a horcrux, besides Dumbledore telling him at that time. I have a feeling that the Sorting Hat will come into play in the Seventh Book, and it will tell Harry that it had seen the soul-piece (horcrux) within Harry all those years ago, and that is part of the reason he wanted to put him in Slytherin.

Something just occurred to me--some posit that DD has already been to the cave and takes Harry as some kind of tutorial. Playing with that idea, could RAB have left the note in between DD's visits? That would explain how RAB got through the enchantments that DD has to puzzle out, and would explain the fact that RAB says to LV, I wanted you to know it was I who discovered your secret and took the real horcrux, as in, I took it rather than DD--he watched/tracked DD to the cave. That could mean either that DD was there some time ago, or that RAB was "facing death" more recently than we surmised. Which would mean either that it's not Regulus or that Regulus was not dead when he supposedly got dead. Hmm...off topic, tho.....

Yes, I had this theory long ago when some members contested the reason why Dumbledore would risk Harry's life in such a way if he knew the events that were about to unfold. I suggested the tutorial cave visit. A crash course on the kinds of magic Lord Voldemort is most likely to use when guarding his Horcruxes. We learn in the 5th book that practicing magic is important, and theories wont get you very far, which is why Dumbledore's Army is created... to practice spells. Dumbledore, naturally, would have realized that he could have talked to Harry for ages, and he still wouldnt have that hands on experience he would need... So Dumbledore gave it to him.



On a side note, you mentioned before on a different thread that you were not sure how to do the multiple quote thing yet.. well I do it this way.
1. highlight and copy the text you want to quote from the person's post.
2. paste into your post.
3. highlight the text again with the cursor
4. click on the button in the Post Toolbar that looks like a dialogue box. It will wrap the text in quote tags that look like this.

CODE

[quote]We learn in the 5th book that practicing magic is important, and theories wont get you very far, which is why Dumbledore's Army is created... to practice spells. Dumbledore, naturally, would have realized that he could have talked to Harry for ages, and he still wouldnt have that hands on experience he would need... So Dumbledore gave it to him.[/quote]

Which will then look like this:

We learn in the 5th book that practicing magic is important, and theories wont get you very far, which is why Dumbledore's Army is created... to practice spells. Dumbledore, naturally, would have realized that he could have talked to Harry for ages, and he still wouldnt have that hands on experience he would need... So Dumbledore gave it to him.

But I am extremely off topic now!!

~Albus

[**pigwidgeon**]

That would be WAy to predictable if he was... JKR is a brilliant author... she'll like to keep us on our toes...

[Albus Dumbledore]

And what are your opinions on RAB? Regulus Black is jumping from the pages of the books at us, saying he is RAB, and everyone believes that. JK Rowling is creative, I will agree, and she can deliver such a circumstance with grace and fluidity, and suspense, which is what we need for Book 7.

~Albus

[The Infamous Fish]

The one thing that Harry having been a Horcrux but no longer being one would do narratively is pare down the search for the remaining ones, assuming that search will indeed be important in book 7.

Well, that would only be true if Voldemort made Harry a horcrux on purpose, knew it, and didn't make another one. The problem with this is that Voldemort wouldn't have attempted to kill Harry (unless killing Harry won't destroy the horcrux...). The fact that Voldemort tried to kill Harry says to me that either Harry became a horcrux on accident or isn't one at all.

-Fish