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Group: Witches & Wizards
Posts: 472
Joined: 12-April 07
From: running eating or reading probably :)
Member No.: 46389
I thought it would be an interesting topic to talk about S.P.E.W.
Would you buy a badge?
I think that I would... I all for standing up for what I believe in. I know that elves don't want to be free... and i wouldn't try to free them, but i think that they should get the following:
Group: Sorting Ceremony
Posts: 117
Joined: 29-March 07
From: At the burrow getting rid of nomes with *~Ferd~* and george
Member No.: 44723
I think I would buy a badge but I agree with you padfootx3 I wouldn't want to force them to leave there owners If they didn't want didn't want to leave
Group: Sorting Ceremony
Posts: 351
Joined: 21-September 06
From: In front of the computer,thinking what to post next
Member No.: 25785
QUOTE
**vacation
**pay
**proper clothing
**sick days
**freedom of speech
I dont' want them to force them if they feel if it is insulting them but if majority are out there like Dobby then I would of course,but badge and fight for their freedom.And about vacation,I don't think they bother to have one and they only want to stay with their owners.Pay,that's their wish..but I guess they are getting food and shelter for the work they are doing right?.Proper clothing,if we give them,it means setting them free and I don't think they like clothes..Freedom of speech?I guess they are too shy to speak in front of wizards..But only think I would fight for is..Wizards or their owners should give them respect treat them as their friend rather than looking down upon them as a servant.If only Kreacher was treated with respect,Sirius wouldn't have died..
Group: Witches & Wizards
Posts: 472
Joined: 12-April 07
From: running eating or reading probably :)
Member No.: 46389
Well, the reason why they don't want all that is because they have been trained not to want it... but it we show them how nice it is to have proper clothing, speak however they want about whomever they want, etc. then maybe they will be more willing to accept it.
Group: Sorting Ceremony
Posts: 117
Joined: 29-March 07
From: At the burrow getting rid of nomes with *~Ferd~* and george
Member No.: 44723
Well I don't think that it's because they've been trained that their that way I think that it is because of the spell that has been put on them. You know in the fourth book when winky had to go sit up real high at the quidditch match and save a seat even though she was scared of heights or like when she was trying to run away but it was like there was something holding her back. I think that spell brain washed them to think that way.
Group: Sorting Ceremony
Posts: 37
Joined: 15-March 07
From: With the Marauders in Hogsmead
Member No.: 43314
I would probably buy a badge just to shut Hermione up and then I would probably never wear it. I woul however free the houselves who wanted to be freed like Dobby. I would not, like most of you, force them to leave if they don't want to, but I would take Kreacher regardless (he is so adorable )
Group: Witches & Wizards
Posts: 2203
Joined: 28-October 06
From: Through the door, down the corridor, pass the bins and third door on your left. Though watch out for the Venomous Tentacula.
Member No.: 29189
Would i buy a badge erm i suppose i would. I mean i really don't think Wizards that have magic need sort of slaves really. I don't think anybody except Dumbledore regrads thier House elves with friendship really. So yeah oi would buy a badge of couse partly to shut Hermione up. But i do agree with it in a sense.
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Memember of- W.A.W *Support Dumbledore! M.O.O.O.PHP-CO Founder of D.A.R.N ~ Dark arts rules the nation~ come visit!
Group: Aurors
Posts: 1998
Joined: 26-August 06
From: The Dark Portrait and The Chocolate Frog Cards
Member No.: 23232
Dawlish, you think Kreacher is adorable? That scares me a bit. I like Kreacher almost as much as I like Lockhart or Umbridge. He is very funny and many other things, but I don't think he is adorable. I can see why you like him though.
As for SPEW, I would not buy a badge. Mainly it is because I am stubborn. I would not let Hermione harrass me into buying one. As for the house elves, why set them free? Yes, they are slaves. But they are happy. Why would you take away someone's happiness? Does it matter why they are happy?
Do I have the right to take away the best thing you have in your life because I think it is wrong? Of course not. Why take away the best thing the elves have because you think it is wrong?
Group: Sorting Ceremony
Posts: 117
Joined: 29-March 07
From: At the burrow getting rid of nomes with *~Ferd~* and george
Member No.: 44723
QUOTE(After the Burial @ Apr 18 2007, 12:07 AM) [snapback]370772[/snapback]
Dawlish, you think Kreacher is adorable? That scares me a bit. I like Kreacher almost as much as I like Lockhart or Umbridge. He is very funny and many other things, but I don't think he is adorable. I can see why you like him though.
As for SPEW, I would not buy a badge. Mainly it is because I am stubborn. I would not let Hermione harrass me into buying one. As for the house elves, why set them free? Yes, they are slaves. But they are happy. Why would you take away someone's happiness? Does it matter why they are happy?
Do I have the right to take away the best thing you have in your life because I think it is wrong? Of course not. Why take away the best thing the elves have because you think it is wrong?
Dude they are not happy at all they just have a spell on them to make them want to do it all and have a certain happy ( if you can call it that) attitude. I mean look at Kreacher he has gone insane and dobby well that's just cruel. If they were born normal then put into slavery I can assure you they would not be happy. The only house elves that are happy are ones with owners that give them days of and vacations and tell them to never punish themselves ever. You want to know who those people are aka no one except Dumbledore!!!
Group: Aurors
Posts: 1998
Joined: 26-August 06
From: The Dark Portrait and The Chocolate Frog Cards
Member No.: 23232
Dobby is a free house elf. So is Winky. Any spell that was on them would have been lifted when they were freed. Yet both still want to work as house elves. Winky refuses payment and is ashamed that she was dismissed.
Simply enough, she did not change when she was freed. If she was under a spell that forced her to think being a slave was good, it would have been lifted when she was freed. Yet she still thinks being free is worse than being a slave.
I can't imagine any sentient creature being happy about being enslaved. History has dozens of examples of enslaved peoples who claimed they were happy as slaves (or happier than they were before they became enslaved) only to have them later slit the throats of their masters. Kreacher might claim that he is loyal to the Black family and that he is happy, but I don't believe it for a moment. The Blacks must have treated him like vermin, like many pure-blooded wizarding families did during Voldemort's rise to power. I'd guess that he's out for revenge and doesn't particularly care which wizard is harmed.
Would I buy a badge from Hermione? No, not a chance. Suddenly emanicpating a group of elves who've never known anything other than slavery is not doing them any favors. I've just taken away they only purpose they've ever known. What will they do now? How will they live? Where will they go? Look what happened to Winky. Sure, there's always the oddball like Dobby who knows what to do, or where to go, but I'd bet that most would feel lost and worthless. They no longer have a place in wizarding society.
Anyway, Hermione pities the house elves rather than respect them. I find that a little insulting. It's kind of like the well meaning, but rather ill informed people who pushed to release to the wild an orca (the star of Free Willy). I'm sure they all meant well. But the orca was raised in captivity and had no idea how to function or survive in the wild. It had no place there and I'm sure it suffered horribly when its handlers tried to reintroduce it into a world it didn't understand.
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When you hear hoofbeats, think horses not zebras. But make sure you can recognize a unicorn if one should show up.
Group: Aurors
Posts: 1998
Joined: 26-August 06
From: The Dark Portrait and The Chocolate Frog Cards
Member No.: 23232
Elias, I agree with your comments about Hermione pitying the house elves. I think it is funny that she does not realize how incredibly condescending she can be. She thinks she knows what is good for a house elf better than the house elf itself....it is insulting.
True, many people have falsely claimed happiness when they were miserable. I don't think this is true of the house elves. Dobby complained when he was unhappy (although he had to punish himself for it). Kreacher constantly complains about mudbloods and blood-traitors and needing to serve them, but he does not punish himself. I think house elves are free to speak their mind unless they are told otherwise. Even then, they can do it, but they msut punish themselves. We have not seen enough of the house elves to know if this is a general trait they have or not.
Group: Witches & Wizards
Posts: 472
Joined: 12-April 07
From: running eating or reading probably :)
Member No.: 46389
Okay I think that maybe Hermione goes a little overboard with the whole thing but all in all she's doing it for a good cause. House elves are used to being how they are and they like it mostly because they probably do not like change. What I want to know it what house elves were before they were slaves. I mean, they could not have been slaves since the beginning of time.
Group: Witches & Wizards
Posts: 162
Joined: 23-January 07
From: Long Island, New York
Member No.: 37699
i wuld want them to act however they wanted. when DD hires dobby he offers him something like 10 halleons a week(i think) but dobby chooses to only get i a week and dd also says that dobby can call him some name i dont remember but dobby refuses. so some might want some freedoms like sick days, vacations, etc.. and some may not. like i said in the beginning they should be able to act however they want.
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"It is important to fight, and fight again, and keep fighting, for only then can evil be kept at bay, though never quite eradicated." -Albus Dumbldore Hala Madrid Raul- All time leading scorer of Real Madrid
I wouldn't buy a badge. Hermione's obsession with s.p.e.w., and the fact that she doesn't understand drives me crazy. House elves do not want to be free. They do not want pay, or sick days, or vaction. How long is it going to take Hermione to relize that they dont want this?
And to Belatrix Lestrange, you don't understand how house elves feel. After the Burial was right in saying that they are happy doing what they do, even if you wouldn't like it. There is no spell put on house elves to enjoy their slavery, that's just how they feel.
S.P.E.W., talk about protection for elvish welfare
Apr 14 2007, 09:45 PM
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