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[muggleview]

Mayfair, I'm sure 100 readers will have 100 opinions. That's normal.
Jo Rowling has outwitted many readers with her brilliant writing styles. That's genial.
I don't worship her as infallible. She clearly made progress as a new author from Book 1 to 6, because you can see how her styles improve with time. But she is still far from perfect.
Not everyone will agree with what she wrote. In this thread, we try to discuss disagreements related to the character Ginny. I have posted many of my reasons to conclude that Ginny is a gem, based on what I read in the books. That doesn't mean the next person will agree completely. Still, it will be fun to share the reasoning and discuss it based on the books. Feel free to discuss your reasoning. Unlike the impression you may have got from other threads, we are not trying to kill each other's ideas here. Please try to use the books for your proof, don't use rumours or baseless accusations. There are also threads focusing on Harry/Ginny or Venom Harry/Ginny in the SHIP section.

[k_weber08]

I think she's likeable, because I loved it when she stood up to Hermione in HBP, and has attitude, even though it's aggresive, but still likeable. Ginny is a hot, fiery redhead fine by me.

[kool kat]

I don't think I've ever commented on this topic, but now that I've gathered my thoughts on Ginny, I think I'll speak.

Ever since the 5th book began, I noticed a weird kind of change in Ginny, more bold, more social, and I thought that was great then. I mean she's growing, of course she'll change a little, but in the 6th book I thought her characterization crossed the line. I mean, making out in hallways, comments on how popular she is and how boys love her? I think we all knew she'd grow up, but I think this change was too rushed and very very out there. In two years she went from practically never saying a word to being Miss Popularity, and I thought that it was just an attempt to make her suitable for Harry, which I rather resent. All in all, I'd give her characterization a , but all we can do is hope for better in the next book.

[muggleview]

Hot and fiery redhead.. Hmm, have we read it elsewhere for another lady? Good description, anyway, K_weber08.

A valid observation, Koolkat.
Let us see from another perspective. Is Ginny changing or her observer is changing?
- Ginny is more bold.
In book 2 she dared to send Harry a Valentine poem in front of the whole Hogwarts.
In book 3 she dared to deliver her self-made singing get-well card to Harry.
Then, Harry showed his interest to Cho, paid less attention to Ginny. Ginny apparently understood her position (Harry doesn't like her) and didn't do anything "bold" anymore to Harry.
In book 5 Harry realised that Ginny was not so awkward in his presence (she can be herself). Once Harry heard she had a boyfriend, he started to give the readers more information about Ginny's actions. Now the readers can see more of her.

Is Ginny bolder since book 2 or even book 1? Hardly. I think she is always bold (or "forceful").
It was Harry who didn't convey enough information to us, so we didn't see how bold Ginny is (except for occassional events as listed above), until Harry paid more attention to her.

- Ginny is more social
One thing we didn't see much about Ginny is that she has to cling to her brothers during free time. Apparently Ginny doesn't need to be around her brothers so much. She has her own world. The absence of Ginny in Harry's close circuit is an indication that Ginny has found her own place in her own environment, separated from Harry's. It's not Ginny that is not social. It's more Harry that tends to isolate himself from other students, except Ron and Hermione. We realise that Ginny can easily be a friend of Hermione, whereas Hermione is difficult to make friend in her own year. Hermione's best friends are Ron, Harry and Neville. Her relation with Parvati and Lavender are just classmates, although she shares dorm room with them for years. In Book 5, Harry paid more attention that Ginny didn't usually sit with them during meals, but she has been like that for years. She has her own friends to sit with.
I think Ginny is social for years.

- Making out in hallways.
This is a misinterpretation. First, Harry and Ron found them in a deserted hallway. Harry and Ron were the one bursting in at the wrong time and the wrong place. Second, Harry couldn't see Dean and Ginny making out again after the incident.
I think Dean and Ginny are discreet enough not to kiss in public like Ron and Lavender.
They have been caught only once by Harry and Ron. The purpose of the author is to show Harry's jealousy.

- Comments on how popular she is and how boys love her
The first comment about popularity was made by Ron and Harry agreed with it.
The second comment came from a joke by the Twins, teasing Ginny that 5 boys are waiting in line for her love.
So, these labels are given by her own brothers who magnifies the reality to much bigger issue. There is no indication in the books, that Ginny can attract boys' attention the way Fleur did. Harry has never said Ginny is pretty.
The comments are an expression of Harry's fear, that Ginny may not be available for him anymore.

In two years she went from practically never saying a word to being Miss Popularity

I hope we can see that it's not Ginny who stopped speaking to everyone. It was Harry who didn't record Ginny's words, because Ginny didn't say much IN HARRY'S PRESENCE. Ginny is talkative. We know this since Book 2.
Also, Ginny is not Miss Popularity. She doesn't have fan club or followers. She hangs out easily with Luna, the pariah of her year, and not with the rich and beautiful people.

It can't be denied that Jo Rowling has increased Ginny's status tremendously in Book 6. She insists that everything is according to her original plan. She also lamented that there was not enough space in previous books for all she wanted to write. This is thus the limitation Jo encountered. I think, after clarifying the misinterpretations, Ginny's character development is not too abrupt. It's just too condensed compared to other main characters, even if Jo deliberately hid her in the earlier books. Whether we agree with Jo's idea, it's a personal matter.

[Spencer Potter]

I can say this, Ginnys character has not fully developed, we haven't learned enough about her as we have Hermione, Ron and Harry. We know plenty of them, but not enough about Ginny so we cant really say anything about her because as I repeat myself again, we have not learned enough.. Maybe we can see her develop in the movies but not in the books, you cant see someones attitude by reading it. Im sure none of you understood what Harry was feeling until the actual Character was made. Same goes for Ginny, shes like a understudy but for a movie. She'll back up a big role, and she takes Hermiones spot in the Half-Blood Prince. You dont see Harry and Hermiones friendship as much as you did in OotP but for Harry and Ginny its different.

I hope I explained myself well here.

[Harpy]

You know, I was seriously put-off by Ginny's character in the sixth book too. I thought she came off as a bit brazen, if I'm using that word correctly, sometimes. She's responsible for the whole Ron and LavLav fiasco. I never imagined that she would sidle in to the 'trio' like that. I don't know, I think it just wasn't done very well.

I always thought Ginny would be more quiet and subdued, with an underlying humour and sense of fun. They're always comparing her to the twins, but does anyone agree with me when I say that she was nothing of the sort? The twins were charmingly playful, you could tell when they were joking and that they didn't mean any harm.

I don't know, Ginny is certainly not a compelling H.P. character for me. I agree that Harry's sudden attraction to her was not covered thoroughly enough, but hey, she's (J.K. Rowling) got the seventh book to handle so we can't expect perfection. Besides, the sixth is my fav. one, along with book three.

We'll see, hopefully one can warm up to Ginny in the seventh book.

5 minutes later...
Mugglehead, you made a very level-headed observation of the Ginny situation, it's made me rethink things a bit.

Maybe Ginny has always had this personality, we've just never had the oppurtunity to see it.

[Mistress of Magic]

I like Ginny a lot. She is such a cute character. However, I have seen a lot of people (Harmonians) that hate her and call all kinds of nasty things. I guess it all comes down to if you trust JKR, and she likes Ginny as a character. Whatever she says goes, I like Ginny and quite frankly I cannot stand people who hate her.

If Ginny or any of the Trio dies, I am going to go on an angry rampage:angry:

[Louise]

Forgive me for saying so, but it is rather intolerant and somewhat silly to hate people for having opposing views to your own.

I'm sure you didn't mean it that way, so I'll overlook it this time, but it might be an idea to phrase yourself a little differently the next time. People will always have different opinions and you should learn to respect that, otherwise it becomes very difficult to have a civilised conversation.

As I've said many, many times before, I love HP and I love JKR's work, but my love is not blind. I have a mind, and am capable of forming my own opinions and as such, whether or not JKR likes Ginny, I do not, for many very logical reasons that I have outlined many times before.

I can assure you though that those reasons are very valid, based on literary considerations rather than personal ones, and are also shared by many other people, not just Harmonians.

[phoenix_song]

Maybe I'm the only one who sees it but I think Ginny is very strong, independent, and headstrong. Of course I saw this mostly after she was taken into the Chamber. Before that Ginny wasnt mentioned a whole lot, therefore, not really giving her much character. But after that, she was mentioned a lot more, and she seems very up on her jinxes and spells, making her seem a bit older, and she hangs out with Fred and George a lot. That can only lead to a better sense of humor. I really like Ginny's character. She's very different than all the other Weasley's, well more like all the Weasley's rolled into one super Weasley....sorry...

[big_al]

Ginny is exactly what Harry needs and is an awesome charecter. She is loyal, fierce and funny. And I feel that her charecter developement has been perfect.

People seem to resent Ginny becoming one of the trio because we don't know much about her, but I ask - how much do we know about Hermione? Seriously.What crucial information do we have about Hermione's background? We know that her parents are dentists and they went skiing one Christmas. I actually think that JK Rowling has spent an awful lot of time building up the charecter of Ginny Weasley.

We were given a snippit of her fiery personality way back in Book 1when she begged her mum to let her go to Hogwarts. She was then a pretty crucial element in Book 2. Admittedly, in Book 3 and 4 she slightly went under the radar - but this showed that she was popular and had her own friends to hang around with. Then in Order of the Pheonix, she came back into the picture and became a funny and fiesty charecter whos few paragraphs on page were filled with entertainment. And of couse in Half Blood Prince, she became even more prominant and went out with Harry. This is a continous progression towards becoming a major charecter and I think JK Rowling timed it perfectly.

Some are saying that what she feels towards Harry is simply 'hero worship'. No. It's not. Hero worship is following someone around all day and nodding vigourously at their every comment - it is not regularly disagreeing with them and bringing them down a notch when their becoming to self-involved...like Ginny does with Harry. Hero worship is fluttering your eyelashes and giving a cheesy grin - it is not fighting Death Eaters. Ginny has regularly risked her life for Harry.

Ginny is a great charecter, not some fawning fangirl, and she is going to play a big part in Book 7. Because, like her or loathe her, Harry Potter loves her.

[muggleview]

That's a great summary of Ginny, Big Al!
It's more apparent now that Ginny's development has been plotted carefully.
She is always there, without showing her a lot.
In Book 1, we can see a forceful little lady, who would say whatever she wants without pretense. In Book 2, we saw that her life turned upside down because of one boy, Harry.
In Book 3 and 4, we saw little of them, because she has found her own world, while Harry was busy with his own. In Book 5, Harry has grown to understand girl, so he paid more attention to Ginny, even as she still dwelled more in her own world. It's just Harry decribed her in longer statements, that the readers got the impression she was more often with Harry. However, she still was with her friends more than with the trio. Only in Book 6, Harry really spied her movements, especially at Quidditch practices and games, and wants to enter her world.
It was not difficult to understand how the author wants to develop her using Harry's eyes, if we can set aside our preset minds. Often we are stuck with the common way an author describes a character, usually by narration. Jo Rowling decides to use Harry's POV to describe Ginny, so we have fragmented information and flawed interpretations. It's a challenge of mind how to reconstruct Ginny from those things without losing patience and blaming the author for not making it easier to understand. Ginny's characterisation is one of the most interesting mind games in the Harry Potter series.

[Kymar]

I actually like the idea of Ginny having a few boyfriends, because:
1. Teenagers do that, and it would be kind of odd if there was none of this in the books
2. It serves to emphasise Ginny as a stand-alone character, not just Ron's brother, but a separate entity

But, I agree that the whole thing seemed a bit rushed. I think Harry just started to realise that he was feeling jealous when he saw her with other boys, and that's when he realised that he had feelings for her. But I didn't like the way the first kiss happened, and I agree that the break up wasn't very well done either

[muggleview]

Kymar, could you please elaborate more on the "rushed" term?
I wonder why Harry-Ginny's relationship is "rushed".
Is it the time factor?
From the time Harry realised his feeling to the time he actually kissed Ginny, 4 months has passed by. If we stretched slightly further back, Harry smelled Ginny's scent about 2 months earlier, so it will make the interval 6 months. Is 6 months rushed?
How about the systematic increase in Ginny's sightings from book 3 to book 5? Harry has not describe any other girls as much as Ginny. Sure he cited Hermione's statements word-by-word during the conversations, but Harry doesn't pay attention to Hermione's appearance or physical traits unless directed by Ron, directed to Ron or other people or in rare occassion like in the beginning of Yule Ball. Ginny's description is more spontaneous and using unique adjectives not applied for other characters. That indicates a certain affection of Harry to Ginny, more in subliminal level, for at least 3 years before the kiss.

Other than that one question, I completely agree with your points of Ginny having boyfriends.

[Kymar]

Kymar, could you please elaborate more on the "rushed" term?
I wonder why Harry-Ginny's relationship is "rushed".

I just meant that it seems as though they got together kind of suddenly. I'm not great with words, but I will try to explain to the best of my abilities. While there have been some fairly heavy hints in the previous books about Ron/Hermione, I feel like Ginny has just kinda been in the background, and we never had any indication that Harry liked her as more than a friend until book 6, when he suddenly started to have feelings.
But I can see your point about how much time passed in the book, and, even though I hadn't noticed anything before, it could just be that I haven't been reading them properly. But I have just started re-reading the series and I will definitely pay close attention this time to see what I missed

[Louise]

I think we're getting a little off topic in here. This thread is meant to be discussing Ginny's characterisation (or lack thereof ), not the Harry/Ginny ship.

I will grant you that this is the crux of the matter in many of the discussions, but at the end of the day, we do have a support and a venom thread for this ship and so I would appreciate it if discussions could be kept solely to Ginny's presentation as a literary character (if one could use such terms to describe her, of course *cough, cough*)

Thanks.

BTW, if someone has the time and would like to compose something of a summary of both sides of this argument so we could start a thread 2, it would be very much appreciated. If not, that's fine...but we're still going to need to lock this thread up soon and start a new one, it'll just have to be minus the summary.