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[Dumbledore's Widow]

IMHO I think she's one of the most unlikeable characters after Voldemort and Draco. She's got a
horrible temper and sharp mouth. She finds it funny when other people get into embarrassing situations and she thinks she's all popular, being nasty to Ron.

I admit Fleur wasn't that likeable and all that but in the hospital wing scene when she showed true love for Bill, Ginny was just her snotty self. And she only shows pity on Luna, to show how popular she is and she still can't stop laughing at her. Everything she says is horrible, being nasty about Fleur behind her back, being horrible to her own boyfriend Dean and having brat attacks with both Ron and Hermione!

I hate the way she was described: always swishing her hair about, being so funny and popular-yet I don't see what's so likeable in her? She may be hot and all that but looks isn't everything. She's arrogant, can't take one wrong word against herself, acts before she thinks and at the same time is proud.

Not only that but she's so popular, even teachers think the sun comes out of her and Luna can't seem to get enough of her. She fits a typical popular, snotty girl's character: stuck-up, bratty, thinks everything they do is right and the worst bit of all: lusts after the popular boy!

Horrible, I hate her and hope she dies in the last book!

I could not have said it better myself, except for the part where you want her to die in the last book.

I really do not want Ginny to die in the book 7 because then she will be remembered as Saint Ginerva. This will be (gag!) intolerable! I can just see it now ... if she were to die, she would probably die protecting Harry in some form or fashion. Imagine his guilt. Imagine his anger. Imagine his angst. Ohhhhh! the tortured soul that he would become. And, imagine me puking into my copy of DH!

No, I definetly would not want Ginny to bite the dust in the final book. If she doesn't die, she will just go back into the background and be the secondary character that she has always been.

[vega, of the lyre]

IMHO I think she's one of the most unlikeable characters after Voldemort and Draco. She's got a horrible temper and sharp mouth. [snip]
She's arrogant, can't take one wrong word against herself, acts before she thinks and at the same time is proud. [snip]
She fits a typical popular, snotty girl's character: stuck-up, bratty, thinks everything they do is right and the worst bit of all: lusts after the popular boy!

Great post with lots of reasons to loathe Ginny! I just pulled out the bits about her horrible temper, unable to take criticism, acting without thinking and not being punished for her actions because they fit perfectly with my thoughts concerning Ginny crashing into Zacharias Smith after the Gryffindor/Slytherin Quidditch match in HBP.

Ginny's actions after the Quidditch match against Slytherin in HBP are an example of her underdeveloped sense of right and wrong, contributing to her characterization as morally ambiguous. Her actions are comparable to the actions of Flint during the Quidditch final in GoF, and Crabbe immediately after the end of the Gryffidor/Slytherin match in OotP.

After the Gryffindor/Slytherin game in HBP Ginny crashes into the commentator’s podium because she didn’t like Zacharias Smith’s commentary during the game.

"but Ginny sped right on past them until with an almighty crash, she collided with the commentator’s podum. As the crowd shrieked and laughed, the Gryffindor team landed beside the wreckage of wood under which Zacharias was feebly stirring; Harry heard Ginny saying blithely to an irate Professor McGonagall, 'Forgot to brake, Professor, sorry.' " (HBP chapter 14 pp. 378, 379 Raincoast)

This is similar to Flint’s actions during the Gryffindor/Slytherin final in PoA. After Angelina scored a goal for Gryffindor…

"Angelina punched the air as she soared round the end of the pitch; the sea of scarlet below was screaming its delight-
' OUCH!'
Angelina was nearly thrown from her broom as Marcus Flint went smashing into her.
'Sorry!' said Flint, as the crowd below booed. 'Sorry, didn’t see her!' (PoA chapter 15 pp. 225, 226).

Ginny's actions are also similar to Crabbe's actions immediately after the end of the match against Griffindor in OotP. Crabbe hits Harry with a bludger, knocking him off his broom and winding him, because Harry catches the Snitch ending the game.

"WHAM.
A bludger hit Harry squarely in the small of the back and he flew forwards off his broom. Luckily he was only five or six feet above the ground, having dived so low to catch the Snitch, but he was winded all the same as he landed flat on his back on the frozen pitch. Her heard Madam Hooch’s shrill whistle, an uproar in the stands compounded of catcalls, angry yells and jeering, a thud, then Angelina's frantic voice." (OotP chapter 19 p. 364)

" 'It was that thug Crabbe,' said Angelina angrily, 'he whacked the Bludger at you the moment he saw you’d got the Snitch – but we won, Harry, we won!' (OotP chapter 19 p. 365)

All actions are done deliberately, selfishly because the victims annoyed them, and recklessly with no thought about potential injury to the victims. Ginny deliberately crashes into Zacharias Smith, the commentator of the Gryffindor/Slytherin match, because she is annoyed with his commentary. Flint deliberately crashes into Angelina, an opposing player within the context of the game, because he is annoyed she scored. Crabbed deliberately hits Harry with a bludger, an opposing playing because he is annoyed Harry caught the Snitch, ending the game.

Ginny is unrepentant about her actions ("saying blithely”), offering an insincere apology and a lame excuse ("forgot to brake Professor, sorry"). Flint is unrepentant about his actions, offering an insincere apology, and a lame excuse ("Sorry, didn’t see her!"). Ginny and Flint’s comments sound very similar.

One difference is that Ginny is neither punished nor reprimanded for her actions, while both Flint and Crabbe are punished and reprimanded respectively. Within the context of the game, Flint is punished for his actions, in that Gryffindor is awarded a penalty shot. " 'Penalty to Gryffindor for an unprovoked attack on their Chaser!' " (PoA chapter 15 pp. 226).
Crabbe is reprimanded for his actions by Hooch. "Harry looked around for Madam Hooch, but she was still berating Crabbe for his illegal Bludger attack" (HBP chapter 19 pp. 365-366).

Ginny, Flint, and Crabbe's actions are very similar. All actions are deliberate, selfish and reckless: they are inappropriate and shouldn't be condoned. All individuals are showing an underdeveloped sense of right and wrong. With respect to Ginny, this underdeveloped sense of right and wrong is an example of her being characterized as morally ambiguous.

[HJP/HJG_TrueLove]

I liked Ginny from 3rd book to the end of the 5th book in the 1st and 2nd book I just laughed at her because she was a dumb fan girl. In the 6th book she is so shallow and totally bratty she is not the same blushing stuttering girl but a big air-head who all the unpopular kids like because she is pretty and popular. She goes after the hero of the story the most popular and famous and teenager in the wizarding world and by some miracle manages to date him albeit briefly but nonetheless. If anyone had told me prior to HBP that Harry fancied Ginny I would have laughed because Harry may be a little superficial for guys going for the pretty popular girls but Ginny his best mates little sister this is the worst ship in the book because most are convinced that Harry/Ginny are in love. But the ship is besides the point I think Ginny is a snotty, stuck-up brat who will probably get the axe in book 7 and I will not find it easy to feel sorry for her. If she was the same girl prior to HBP maybe but I hated Super! Ginny and can only hoper she is better in DH but probably not considering she will put her efforts into getting Harry back.

[muggleview]

Haven't got a chance to be here for a while, and I miss the discussions so much.

...Jo might let it stand and have hero Harry come back to claim his prize, the little woman waiting meekly at home, in the end...
She had to wholely support him, even though she must have known what he did was stupid.

Actually that's a great dream for every man. A wife that is supportive even when her husband did something stupid should be an ideal life partner. Hermione began to do that to Ron since book 5. It doesn't mean that wife cannot correct her husband, but she will do it in a more acceptable way for her husband, just like how Ginny corrected Harry and Harry could accepted the correction without hard feeling.

... there is no reason for Harry to think that Draco would be able to "effectively" cast a Cruciatus curse and "fatally harm" him. Harry is unable to cast the Cruciatus curse at Bellatrix in the DoM, because to successfully cast it he has to want to inflict pain and enjoy inflicting it. (OotP chapter p. 715).

Harry can't do many things that Hermione can. Draco can also do many things that Harry can't, especially in relation to Dark Arts. In a duel, it's unwise to assume that the other party will only shoot a childish spell. Draco is a sixth year Hogwarts student and should be able to cast fatal hexes.

Effective means "providing a desired or intended result". So Ginny supporting Harry using something effective, having the desired or intended result of killing Draco, is still reprehensible.

The addition of phrase "killing Draco" is without basis at all. Can anyone believe that Harry or Ginny wanted to kill Draco or commit murder? Harry wanted to get Draco down before Draco could have harmed him and Ginny supported it. That's a normal and expected support from a friend.

Defenceless Harry ?!? If Harry is defenceless against Hermione, I shudder to think what will happen when he has to face Voldemort in DH

That's the thriller, isn't it? A hapless hero facing a mighty evil enemy, but with a little bit of luck the hero prevails. In fact, it will be impossible for Harry to ever equal Voldemort's witchcraft power in one year. There has to be some other ways that only Harry can perform even while he seems "defenseless". (with "s" not "c")

IMHO I think she's one of the most unlikeable characters after Voldemort and Draco.
...
Not only that but she's so popular, even teachers think the sun comes out of her and Luna can't seem to get enough of her. She fits a typical popular, snotty girl's character: stuck-up, bratty, thinks everything they do is right and the worst bit of all: lusts after the popular boy!

Fair opinion, but that seems to come from the kind of Romilda Vane. The fact is most characters in the series like Ginny. The fact is Harry likes Ginny a lot. That's what counts. We, readers, can only agree or disagree.

I really do not want Ginny to die in the book 7 because then she will be remembered as Saint Ginerva.

Very touching. I believe Ginny will survive. She represents those who will live because Harry successfully gets rid of Voldemort.

Ginny's actions ...are comparable to the actions of Flint during the Quidditch final in GoF, and Crabbe immediately after the end of the Gryffidor/Slytherin match in OotP.

"but Ginny sped right on past them until with an almighty crash, she collided with the commentator’s podum. As the crowd shrieked and laughed, ... " (HBP chapter 14 pp. 378, 379 Raincoast)

This is similar to Flint’s actions during the Gryffindor/Slytherin final in GoF. After Angelina scored a goal for Gryffindor…

"Angelina punched the air as she soared round the end of the pitch; the sea of scarlet below was screaming its delight-
' OUCH!'
Angelina was nearly thrown from her broom as Marcus Flint went smashing into her.
'Sorry!' said Flint, as the crowd below booed. 'Sorry, didn’t see her!' (GoF chapter 15 pp. 225, 226).

Ginny's actions are also similar to Crabbe's actions immediately after the end of the match against Griffindor in OotP. Crabbe hits Harry with a bludger, knocking him off his broom and winding him, because Harry catches the Snitch ending the game.

"WHAM.
A bludger hit Harry squarely in the small of the back and he flew forwards off his broom. Luckily he was only five or six feet above the ground, having dived so low to catch the Snitch, but he was winded all the same as he landed flat on his back on the frozen pitch. Her heard Madam Hooch’s shrill whistle, an uproar in the stands compounded of catcalls, angry yells and jeering, a thud, then Angelina's frantic voice." (OotP chapter 19 p. 364)

" 'It was that thug Crabbe,' said Angelina angrily, 'he whacked the Bludger at you the moment he saw you’d got the Snitch – but we won, Harry, we won!' (OotP chapter 19 p. 365)

All actions are done deliberately, selfishly because the victims annoyed them, and recklessly with no thought about potential injury to the victims.

The comparisons are unfair for several reasons:
1. Flint and Crabbe commit their acts during the match, thus lack of sportmanship. Ginny did it after the match.
2. Flint and Crabbe's actions drew disapproval from the audience, showing that what they did was selfish. Ginny's actions drew approval from the audience, and many players, because what she did is what others would like to do, so she did it basically also on their behalf.
3. The different verdict from the judges on site (teachers, audiences, players) showed that the actions of Flint and Crabbe are not the same as Ginny's. Readers who are not personally on site may not understand the circumstances as good as those who were there. I would trust them more to make the comparison than any readers.

I liked Ginny from 3rd book to the end of the 5th book in the 1st and 2nd book I just laughed at her because she was a dumb fan girl. In the 6th book she is so shallow and totally bratty she is not the same blushing stuttering girl but a big air-head who all the unpopular kids like because she is pretty and popular.

The series realistically shows that Ginny is a human not a flawless goddess. It's too idealistic if one easily accepts other persons' good sides, but is difficult to accept the bad sides, because every person has good and bad sides. I find it wise for Jo Rowling to show the less desirable side of Ginny, so anyone accusing Harry for liking Ginny only for her good sides may lose the argument. Harry likes Ginny for what she is. Some of the things Ginny did may irate others, but not Harry. He saw all sides of hers, the silly side, the reckless side, the dark side, the good side, and he likes what he sees in her. That's an educative advice from Jo Rowling to us the younger people. That's how we should examine our life partner.
I wish Ginny will enjoy her family life with Harry at the end of Book 7. Harry deserves it. Ginny deserves it.

[Harry Will Survive]

I was expecting a lot more of Ginny in HBP. There was a lot of mention of her... like harry, Ginny, ron and hermione spent the summer playing quidditch at the weasley's house.. but it doesnt have much of her dialogue. Even when they were going out she was barely focused on.

They went out for about 100 pages.. and she had maybe 2 pages full of lines..
I personally still liked Ginny, shes my fav charactor.. but a lot of ppl were dissapointed.

[muggleview]

As I read the series, I had the assumption that Jo Rowling might want to promote Ginny more. However, it would be an unnecessary distraction to the exciting grand storyline.
Harry's task is to eliminate Voldemort, so that the world will have peace. How will Harry enjoy the peace? There is someone that Harry can relate to and allow him to consume the fruit of his hard work, which is peace in his surroundings, among his close friends and in the world to come. Ginny is prepared for that. She has the traits that Harry needs and likes in a woman. She brings Harry into the warmth of the family that he missed for the first 11 years of his life. She becomes one of main reasons Harry wants to finish his tasks as soon as possible. However, Ginny should not be Harry's burden. If Ginny was made attractive to Harry too early, Ginny would be a burden to read. She has to be the mystery girl. She has to be the grand prize which one can see better in the final phase. Still, Ginny is not simply an ideal girl. She has her own development, which is exciting and bringing a lot of debates and posts. Some will choose to dislike her no matter what. Some already sees the positive in her characterisation and cherish her early on. Many follows what Jo plans for Harry in the series: a gradual revelation and liking to Ginny. With that, I believe Jo has given us just the right dose of Ginny in the previous 6 books. Ginny will never be the main heroine. I don't think it's ever in Jo's plan. Harry is the main hero. Ron and Hermione are the sidekicks. Voldemort is the main enemy. The rest are supporters, villains and public. Until book 6, Ginny is just a supporter.
Book 7 may not reveal much more than we know (because we already know her more than many other characters in the whole series), but we will see how her relationship with Harry will grow and last. She will give Harry the sweet taste of the freedom from fear, from Voldemort.

[Dumbledore's Widow]

Book 7 may not reveal much more than we know (because we already know her more than many other characters in the whole series), but we will see how her relationship with Harry will grow and last. She will give Harry the sweet taste of the freedom from fear, from Voldemort.

bolding mine.

Muggleview, A sweet taste of the freedom from fear, from Voldemort?

There's no doubt in my mind that Harry is determined to find the Horcruxes, with Ron and Hermione's help, and finally do away with Voldemort. In all of the HP books, I can't recall Harry being so scared - to the point of cowardly - of Voldemort. I know that you didn't use the word, cowardly, but what you did say was that Ginny would alleviate his fear of Voldemort. This is incredulous. Elevating Ginny to such grandiose levels! But, it's your opinion, certainly not mine.

[muggleview]

Dumbledore's Widow,
Harry Potter is not a coward. He is a brave Gryffindor. That one should not be questioned.

Voldemort's presence is causing fear in the world, especially in the wizarding world. Everyone feels the fear, but not everyone is overwhelmed. Harry feels the fear, but not retreated because of it. He faces his fear. He is determined to eliminate the source of fear, Voldemort.
You may recall, that Harry was constantly haunted in the classroom by the thought that anytime Voldemort could suddenly bursts in. As a normal human being, Harry would feel the fear of death, but as Dumbledore always says, Harry's fear of death is less than Voldemort's, and that may be a key for victory. Harry is willing to sacrifice himself, thus facing the fear of death, for the good of many.
Harry fears for the safety of his friends. Harry stated in the canon that the breakup with Ginny is based on that fear.
Overall, by eliminating Voldemort, Harry will free the world from the fear caused by Voldemort. After the freedom from fear is achieved, Harry should be able to enjoy it as he wishes, which is to spend days, months, years with Ginny. Harry will taste the sweetness of his hard work, his high-priced victory (there have been and will be deaths of close friends, certainly) by living in peace with the woman he truly likes.
It doesn't elevate Ginny to any kind of grandiose level. She will just be a witch who will enjoy a good life with a partner whom she likes the most and who likes her the most. That's a common wish most mature persons would have. Ginny will fill Harry's need for comfort, for companion, for family. I don't see anything bad about that. As long as Harry is happy, the story will end in happy note.

[Dumbledore's Widow]

Dumbledore's Widow,
Harry Potter is not a coward. He is a brave Gryffindor. That one should not be questioned.

Voldemort's presence is causing fear in the world, especially in the wizarding world. Everyone feels the fear, but not everyone is overwhelmed. Harry feels the fear, but not retreated because of it. He faces his fear. He is determined to eliminate the source of fear, Voldemort.
You may recall, that Harry was constantly haunted in the classroom by the thought that anytime Voldemort could suddenly bursts in. As a normal human being, Harry would feel the fear of death, but as Dumbledore always says, Harry's fear of death is less than Voldemort's, and that may be a key for victory. Harry is willing to sacrifice himself, thus facing the fear of death, for the good of many.
Harry fears for the safety of his friends. Harry stated in the canon that the breakup with Ginny is based on that fear.
Overall, by eliminating Voldemort, Harry will free the world from the fear caused by Voldemort. After the freedom from fear is achieved, Harry should be able to enjoy it as he wishes, which is to spend days, months, years with Ginny. Harry will taste the sweetness of his hard work, his high-priced victory (there have been and will be deaths of close friends, certainly) by living in peace with the woman he truly likes.
It doesn't elevate Ginny to any kind of grandiose level. She will just be a witch who will enjoy a good life with a partner whom she likes the most and who likes her the most. That's a common wish most mature persons would have. Ginny will fill Harry's need for comfort, for companion, for family. I don't see anything bad about that. As long as Harry is happy, the story will end in happy note.

And, I never questioned Harry's bravery either. Please re-read my post #1087.

Many do elevate Ginny to a higher level. To a level that may or may not be true. JKR said in an interview that Ginny had great powers (I paraphrase here), but she neglected to write it down in the books. So, it's not canon.

You are assuming that Harry and Ginny get together when you said, "Ginny will fill Harry's need for comfort, for companion, for family." I personally don't know that this is the case. Especially since book 7 hasn't been released yet. If JKR makes it OBHWF then I guess you will be correct in your assumtion, otherwise it's just wishful thinking.

[muggleview]

Not until we read book 7 can we say "Harry and Ginny will be together" wishful thinking. It's a wish. Yes. It's a thought, but a deductive thought.
According to canon, for her age, Ginny has a great power already. Of course, not as great as Dumbledore or Voldemort. Who else in her age that the Twins are afraid of being hexed?
If we reasonably measure Ginny's achievement to her peers, we may see the truth in Jo's word. She simply said Ginny has a great power. It can be the same as I said my 2-year old brother has a great power, because I saw him lifting up his own empty plastic plate.
The great power of Ginny is in the book. It's appropriately written within the realm of Ginny's age and place in the wizarding world.
Ginny is a unique character. Her place in the series is unique. She is not and will not be a part of the trio. She is not and will not be just a background character. At the end, she may be the one accompanying Harry for the rest of his life, giving him family. The one for the Chosen One.

[vega, of the lyre]

Effective means "providing a desired or intended result". So Ginny supporting Harry using something effective, having the desired or intended result of killing Draco, is still reprehensible.

The addition of phrase "killing Draco" is without basis at all. Can anyone believe that Harry or Ginny wanted to kill Draco or commit murder? Harry wanted to get Draco down before Draco could have harmed him and Ginny supported it. That's a normal and expected support from a friend.

My original point was Ginny is morally ambiguous for supporting Harry's use of a Dark Magic curse on Draco, which had horrific results. She supports his use of a hand-written invented curse he found in the HBP’s potion book, when he didn't know whom the creator of the curse was, or what the result might be except that it was for enemies.

It’s neither normal nor expected support from a friend because neither Ron nor Hermione, Harry’s closest friends share Ginny's response. See post 1076 for textual support.

The use of the of "killing Draco" (substituting the phrase "having Draco bleed to death" instead of the offensive "killing Draco", works just as well), is not without basis. It is used in response to the introduction of the term "effective" as a synonym for "good" as quoted below.

She only showed her relief that Harry had something effective to get Malfoy down before Malfoy could fatally harm Harry. ("good" and "effective" can be synonyms).

The term effective, "providing the desired or intended result" is being presented as a synonym for "good" in Ginny's support of Harry using a Dark Magic curse, Sectumsempra.
The result of using Sectumsempra is Draco probably would have bled to death ("shaking uncontrollably in a pool of his own blood") and Harry would have been a killer. This result did not occur only because of the fortuitous intervention of Snape.

Ginny knows the result of the use of Sectumsempra when she supports it's use, stating it's something "good"/effective. By definition, therefore she must be supportive of the desired or intended result, which is Draco bleeding to death.

I find the continued use of the phrase “get Draco down” an asinine understatement. As I previously stated the outcome of using Sectumsempra is life-threatening.

"to get Malfoy down" is an understatement of what happened, given that Harry is "horrified by what he had done" (HBP chapter 24 p. 489 Raincoast). The descriptions of Draco show the extent of his injuries and the seriousness of Harry's actions.

"Blood spurted from Malfoy’s face and chest as though he had been slashed with an invisible sword.
… Malfoy, whose face was now shining scarlet, his white hands scrabbling at his blood-soaked chest.
… Malfoy, who was shaking uncontrollably in a pool of his own blood
…the deep wounds Harry’s curse had made" (HBP chapter 24 p. 489)

Defenceless Harry ?!? If Harry is defenceless against Hermione, I shudder to think what will happen when he has to face Voldemort in DH

There has to be some other ways that only Harry can perform even while he seems "defenseless". (with "s" not "c")

Thanks but your editing skills are not required – "defenceless" with a "c" is the correct Canadian spelling. And just for a giggle, I looked it up in an Oxford dictionary and it also spelled defenceless with a "c".

Ginny's actions ...are comparable to the actions of Flint during the Quidditch final in GoF, and Crabbe immediately after the end of the Gryffidor/Slytherin match in OotP.

"but Ginny sped right on past them until with an almighty crash, she collided with the commentator’s podum. As the crowd shrieked and laughed, ... " (HBP chapter 14 pp. 378, 379 Raincoast)

This is similar to Flint’s actions during the Gryffindor/Slytherin final in GoF. After Angelina scored a goal for Gryffindor…

"Angelina punched the air as she soared round the end of the pitch; the sea of scarlet below was screaming its delight-
' OUCH!'
Angelina was nearly thrown from her broom as Marcus Flint went smashing into her.
'Sorry!' said Flint, as the crowd below booed. 'Sorry, didn’t see her!' (GoF chapter 15 pp. 225, 226).

Ginny's actions are also similar to Crabbe's actions immediately after the end of the match against Griffindor in OotP. Crabbe hits Harry with a bludger, knocking him off his broom and winding him, because Harry catches the Snitch ending the game.

"WHAM.
A bludger hit Harry squarely in the small of the back and he flew forwards off his broom. Luckily he was only five or six feet above the ground, having dived so low to catch the Snitch, but he was winded all the same as he landed flat on his back on the frozen pitch. Her heard Madam Hooch’s shrill whistle, an uproar in the stands compounded of catcalls, angry yells and jeering, a thud, then Angelina's frantic voice." (OotP chapter 19 p. 364)

" 'It was that thug Crabbe,' said Angelina angrily, 'he whacked the Bludger at you the moment he saw you’d got the Snitch – but we won, Harry, we won!' (OotP chapter 19 p. 365)

All actions are done deliberately, selfishly because the victims annoyed them, and recklessly with no thought about potential injury to the victims.

The comparisons are unfair for several reasons:

I find the comparisons fair as they are based on the texts - the similarities are striking (no pun intended).

1. Flint and Crabbe commit their acts during the match, thus lack of sportmanship. Ginny did it after the match.

I don’t understand what point you’re trying to make. All show a lack of sportsmanship: all were annoyed about something that happened in a Quidditch match. Flint committed the foul during the match. Crabbe attacked after the match was over, and Ginny attacked after the match was over.
For individuals with a sense of right and wrong, it’s straight forward. Breaking the rules of a game is wrong. (Breaking a rule may be done deliberately in a game for a specific purpose, but with the realisation that there is a penalty for infractions) Physically attacking a person is wrong.

2. Flint and Crabbe's actions drew disapproval from the audience, showing that what they did was selfish. Ginny's actions drew approval from the audience, and many players, because what she did is what others would like to do, so she did it basically also on their behalf.

Quidditch is adversarial in nature - there are two opposing sides. Therefore, given there are two opposing sides, none of Flint, Crabbe, or Ginny’s actions would have met with universal approval or disapproval from the fans. What all of them did is still wrong regardless of how fans react; what is required is not a fan’s opinion but an impartial unbiased observer’s evaluation (i.e. reader).
Because Ginny's actions drew approval from a section of the fans and players does not mean it is right. It is still wrong to attack a person. However, the section of the fans shrieking, i.e. loud high-pitched piercing cries does not indicate support for Ginny’s actions. I would also speculate that the Hufflepuff’s were not supportive of her actions against Zacharias Smith.
It’s your interpretation that the fan reactions “catcalls, angry yells and jeering” are all against the Slytherins. While I interpret the reaction is a combination of support and derision from both supporters and detractors of the Slytherin Quidditch team, i.e. two sides both yelling, jeering, and catcalling at each other.

3. The different verdict from the judges on site (teachers, audiences, players) showed that the actions of Flint and Crabbe are not the same as Ginny's. Readers who are not personally on site may not understand the circumstances as good as those who were there. I would trust them more to make the comparison than any readers.

Well... that's an.... unusual point of view. Instead of the readers not understanding "as good" (sic), it may show the author is writing a Ginny-Sue character. For example, contrast Ginny's attacking Smith to Harry and George Weasley attacking Draco in OotP. Ginny attacks Zacharias Smith because his Quidditch commentary annoyed her and she is not reprimanded or punished. In contrast, Harry, and the George Weasley are hexed by Madam Hooch, and severely reprimanded and punished by McGonagall for attacking Draco after a Quidditch match.
" 'What do you think you’re doing?' screamed Madam Hooch, as Harry leapt to his feet. It seemed to have been her who had hit him with the Impediment Jinx; … 'I have never seen behaviour like it – back up to the castle, both of you, and straight to your Head of House’s office! Go! Now!' " (OotP chapter 19 p. 366)

McGonagall’s summary after a page describing her anger and reprimands is
'Now, you two had better listen closely. I do not care what provocation Malfoy offered you, I do not care if he insulted every family member you possess, your behaviour was disgusting and I am giving each of you a week's worth of detentions! Do not look at me like that, Potter, you deserve it! And if either of you ever –' "(OotP chapter 19 pp. 367, 368)

McGonagall’s words are applicable to Ginny. It shouldn’t matter what Zacharias Smith says as a commentator during the Quidditch match, what insults or provocation he offers, Ginny’s behaviour in attacking him in the commenting tower is disgusting, and she deserves some sort of reprimand and punishment.

[muggleview]

Vega, of the Lyre, I would like to thank you for a good discussion. As now we have DH, we supposedly get many missing parts related to Ginny.
To sum it up, until HBP (which is our current scope), the characterisation of Ginny is interesting because we can still speculate and assume. We are looking at a teenage girl in development with many expectations attached. In real life, it is not easy to be Ginny. She is not perfect. She is still trying to find her mature form. Her actions can be viewed as good or bad in the eye of the beholders. Nonetheless, here is a young female character that was mentioned the first in the whole series and will be mentioned last as well (for her final union with Harry).

[UnknownLocket]

As now we have DH, we supposedly get many missing parts related to Ginny.

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Ginny was hardley even in the seventh book and exactly who she is still remains to be unsolved. However, even after the final the book, we can conclude that there is nothing spectacularly gifted about her magical abilities. She also apparently has no respect for herself as a woman because she finds it fit to offer herself up as a birthday gift to Harry as a way for him to "remember her by".

[beyond_the_veil]

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As now we have DH, we supposedly get many missing parts related to Ginny.

I disagree with you there Muggleview. We didn't really see any more of her character than we saw in HBP.All we saw(and heard about) in DH was her snogging Harry.There was no character development.From the little we saw of her in DH she seemed the same old character whom we hardly know any about.

We didn't see the supposed 'powerful' side to her as all we saw her do was cast 'a well aimed jinx' in the final battle and she narrowly avoided death from an AK curse. Hardly a powerful witch like Hermione We also saw she had a jealous side as she was irritated when Gabrielle an 11 year old girl smiled at Harry

She also apparently has no respect for herself as a woman because she finds it fit to offer herself up as a birthday gift to Harry as a way for him to "remember her by".

I found that strange because just weeks earlier Harry had told her it was over and she accepted that.Then it that scene she seemed to have forgotten that little detail and was snogging him senseless without any indication from Harry that it was all back on. .Was she unable to accept that Harry had dumped her and then decided to pursue him again?

I seems that Ginny's character served only one purpose:to have a big role in HBP then fade away in DH and then to become Harry's wife.She does not contribute anything else to the books and despite becoming Harry's wife we know hardly anything about her due to lack of knowledge about her character that JKR says makes her Harry's 'equal' and 'ideal' girl.

This post has been edited by beyond_the_veil: Jul 28 2007, 06:04 PM

[vega, of the lyre]

Great post beyond_the_veil
re: Ginny powerful witch?

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As now we have DH, we supposedly get many missing parts related to Ginny.

I disagree with you there Muggleview. We didn't really see any more of her character than we saw in HBP.All we saw(and heard about) in DH was her snogging Harry.There was no character development.From the little we saw of her in DH she seemed the same old character whom we hardly know any about.

We didn't see the supposed 'powerful' side to her as all we saw her do was cast 'a well aimed jinx' in the final battle and she narrowly avoided death from an AK curse. Hardly a powerful witch like Hermione

» Click to Show Spoiler - Click Again to Hide... «

I agree. I am still waiting for Ginny to demonstrate that she is a powerful witch. Oh, wait, DH is the last book. Too late! Ginny is still the damsel in distress she was in CoS, OotP and HBP. This time, in DH, she is rescued from Bellatrix, by her mother. Bellatrix is fighting Ginny, Hermione, and Luna simultaneously. Harry, turns away from going to Voldemort, and starts to go to Ginny’s rescue as she is almost hit by a killing curse. However, Mrs. Weasley rushes to Ginny’s rescue instead.

“Bellatrix was still fighting too, fifty yards away from Voldemort, and like her master she dueled three at once: Hermione, Ginny and Luna, all battling their hardest, but Bellatrix was equal to them, and Harry’s attention was diverted as a Killing Curse shot so close to Ginny that she missed death by an inch –
He changed course, running at Bellatrix rather than Voldemort, but before he had gone a few steps he was knocked sideways.
‘NOT MY DAUGHTER, YOU“ (DH chapter p. 589 Raincoast)

Re: Jealousy

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As now we have DH, we supposedly get many missing parts related to Ginny.

We also saw she had a jealous side as she was irritated when Gabrielle an 11 year old girl smiled at Harry

» Click to Show Spoiler - Click Again to Hide... «

Not only is she unreasonably jealous of an 11 year old girl, she is also jealous of Harry's ex-girlfriend. Ginny's jealous of Cho, when the latter offers to show Harry what the diadem looks like in the statue in the Ravenclaw common room. Ginny directs Luna to take Harry to the Ravenclaw common room rather than Cho. With Voldemort’s arrival imminent it appears a rather idiotic time for Ginny to be showing petty jealously.

"Cho had got to her feet, but Ginny said rather fiercely, 'No, Luna will take Harry, won’t you Luna?' "(DH chapter p. 471).

Re: Secondary character in a minuscule role

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I seems that Ginny's character served only one purpose:to have a big role in HBP then fade away in DH and then to become Harry's wife.She does not contribute anything else to the books.

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Ginny is the "reward" for the hero completing his quest; she is the ultimate trophy wife. Ginny reminds me of Arwen Undomiel from the Lord of the Rings (book) trilogy. J.K. Rowling is capable of writing engaging secondary characters as evidenced by Luna and Neville. But my opinion is she failed me, as a reader, in her portrayal of Ginny.