ok..on page 785 where Lucious blocks Bellatrix's spell and it causes glass orbs (the prophesies) to shatter to pieces...could there be something with the two lines that are spoken ... "at the Solsitce will come a new..." said a mans voice and .... "and none will come after" said a figured womens voice.... or just put there for the prophesies sake? could they be clues or hints or something or other? Do they have any purpose at all? I am not sure but i don't think there was a thread on the so i thought i might bring it in the light. Even if these mean nothing...at least we could get some ideas and feedback on what everyone thinks...hope you get what i'm sayin. Anyways...please respond:)

That's a good point. It makes you really think about it -- considering JK loves to keep the important details subtle.. left for us to figure out, but that's what I love about her writing.. it's such a mystery!

Here's the exact excerpt from OotP, U.S. Ed., pgs. 784-785

I just realized that it couldn't be DD because he isn't a Seer.

Or wait.. is it possible to NOT be a Seer, but still make prophecies? Someone tell me if you know!

Yea, I knew about summer and winter solstices (geography class actually pays off I guess)

Ok, well I'm being too literal & Muggle-ish.. we're talking about the Wizarding world here.. maybe they have their own kind of solstices..then again, they do share common things with the Muggle world.

Good point Doomed about it being the first war w/ Voldemort..and this one is the start of the new one..

Although, I must agree you with -- again, that two solstices come annually..so we can't say for sure that there will be no more solstices..I guess.

*smirks* You know, Dumbldore's not the ONLY old wizard guy with a beard...

Hehe, I know. It just was a sudden thought.. and then it ALSO hit me that he wasn't a Seer.

I noticed that a while ago when I was flicking through OotP looking for the exact prophecy and it really got me thinking...there has to be something in it, right? 'Cos the thing is that there must have been thousands of prophecies that got smashed when Harry and co decided to trash the place, and of all the ones that he could have heard, JKR chooses to write about one or two in particular...something about a solstice.

Yep, doomed, there are two solstices at the times you mentioned which got me thinking...

Dudley's born at or around the 23rd June...now according to the HP Lexicon, who have apparently worked it out almost to the day, for my reckoning, that was pretty close to the solstice. So then I thought, OMG, Dudley is going to be sooo important to the story!! I got so excited! Especially with the Dementor attack and stuff!! I really thought that I'd figured it all out!!

And then JKR goes and shoots my theory down in a huge explosion of flames by saying firstly that Dudley is exactly what he appears to be..just a pig in clothes...and that Dudley never actually saw the Dementors...

I was gutted, I can tell you!! He was the only one I could find that was born around the summer solstice. But then again, I didn't consider the winter one. We know Hermione was born in September, so it can't refer to her....

I definitely think you're onto something with this though, SuperStar....it's just the sort of subtle clue that JKR would love....is there anyone else born at or around Dec or June 21st?

"...at the Solstice will come a new..."

You can't actually confirm that it's about someone being born at the Solstice, can you?

I mean, like doomed said, it could be a new war or it could be almost anything! But I agree that when JKR had chooses to write something from all the prophecies that's been smashed about, she chose this one....yeah, there has to be something important about it....curious...

Good on you, superstar for pointing this out!!

You know, thinking about it, it probably is the war. It would make sense, wouldn't it? Particularly if it was the summer solstice - the second war would begin at the end of the HBP...in the summer....hence starting the 7th book.....

'And none will come after...'

Not just the second, but the final war? None will come after?

It probably isn't someone being born...that's an idea I latched onto a while ago, but discarded...well...in Dudley's case, at least....

None will come after, you say? Maybe...eek...maybe the world will actually END....*hides under the desk jibbering, don't like end of the world, no I don't...*

Maybe...after the war is over...wizards would choose to show themselves to the muggle world, thus rendering wizard wars a global thing, if such a thing were to occur again...cos I was saying in another post, the one about half-bloods maybe being stronger than purebloods, that it seems wizards need muggles..

Oh, I don't know...

It's okay, Nivaya! You can come out! It's quite safe! The world isn't going to end! **hugs reassuringly**

JKR's said that the wizarding and the muggle worlds will never be united again 'cos too much has gone on, apparently. **shrugs** I suppose it's like Hagrid said in PS, everyone'll be wanting magical solutions to their problems. Not to mention creepy scientists would probably lock the likes of poor Lupin in labs to be experimented on! **gasps** Noooooo!!!!

But it does make you wonder, when the worlds are kept so separate, how wizards and muggles ever manage to get to know each other enough to want to get married and have kids, doesn't it?

Aww alas...

Although, yeah, I was thinking that earlier...there seem to be an awful lot of half-bloods out there from two worlds having to be kept quite separate...

That is a good theory doomed_renascence. That makes sense I think. BUt last time we thought something was there for a foreshadowing (Mark Evans) we were wrong. But maybe this time this will be true. Who Knows?

Bravo Dana for the theory about Dudley.. too bad though. I really liked that theory.. I didn't even know Dudley was born sometime around June 23.. a day before me!! Hah.

Anywho, I'm all for the theory about the wars.. doomed, you also made a very excellent point. I need to make some sort of timeline or something.. get back to ya!!

I never have good theories!

Thought I'd restart this thread seeing as I'm building off of it. These theories on the prophecies being about wars could be true in certain circumstances. We have to put into thought though that they are two completely different prophecies. We have no way of knowing if they are connected or not. Maybe the contents just happen to line up so they sound connected... we don't know. But if they are connected, I'm guessing it has to do with Voldemort's war on the world. Voldemort will launch a new war on the wizarding world during the solstice. This has to be during the summer of fifth year. Oh dear. I just realized something. This is Harry's shortest summer at the Dursleys yet. Harry was there for four weeks before and he left after his birthday. I looked up the timing for the summer solstice and it is on June 21 in 1996 which is when book 6 takes place. That's before Harry's birthday! Harry might be taken from the Dursleys because of something really bad happening! Either way this war ends, no more wars will be waged against the wizarding world by Ol' Voldy. If he wins, well, there's no one to wage war against anymore. If he loses, then he's dead and can't wage war. That is how I'm starting to see this.

JK has said that harry will leave the Dursley´s early for a much enjoyable reason, so I don´t think it has nothing to do with the war. And about the prophecies, I agree that they are two different prophecies and we have no way of knowing if they are connected or not. I personally think that JK only wrote those two to let us see how they work. and give Harry the idea to tell the others to smash ths shelves.

i think the first glass orb that was broken,
it has also a significance!
maybe one of the clues that would happen in book 6 or 7!
but i really don't have any idea about that prophecy!
we better wait and see!

and we must always keep in mind that everything in the story has connections right?
and everythings somehow possible with magic!

I think the bits of prophecy Harry heard shows the main character and readers that Seeing does relate to astronomical signs, like how Centaurs divine the future. Meaning when Seers prophecise, it is to set the world as a whole back on the course of Fate.

I think that JKR wouldn't have written something like that that holds no meaning...even if it is a subtle meaning I think it may have some significance...as stated before JK likes to put important things in a small clue..most likely to get us thinking imho...

wow....The theories about the wars...thats great...I never would have thought of that...I was thinking that a last wizard/witch would be born and no more would come after...but Yah, I don't know anything...I am all for the wars theory!

great theories! are we sure that none of the characters have birthdays during the summer solstice? Isnt Dumbledores birthday in the summer?


I am going to do some investigating..I'll get back to you all...

Erm....you said 'great theories', but I get the impression somehow that you haven't actually read them....

We've been discussing that Dudley was born in June, around the time of the solstice....

Whether Dumbledore is too, I don't know....

I am insulted! ha ha.... just kidding


I did read them! I read your post about dudley being born on June 23rd....which means it cant apply to him because the summer solstice is almost always on June 21st.

I was just curious if maybe there was a character who we hadnt thought of who was born on the summer solstice...you know a less discreet character we hadnt thought of..JKR likes to do that sometimes..I mean look at Sirius Black! He was mentioned in the first book but didnt play an integral part in the story until the third book! So maybe the prophecy refers to someone like that?

I agree that the prophesies could be there to show harry a way to escape the death eaters, and Dumbledor explains to Harry how they are made with his pensieve. To say these are relevant to the next books is anyones guess and the only person who really knows is JKR.

MOD EDIT : Hi and welcome to the forums!! Can you please have a read of the forums rules before you post again? You aren't allowed to double post. If you wish to add/edit something, click on the "Edit" button at the top right of your post instead of posting again. Your second post has been deleted, it said:

The possibility is there that the war could begin during the solstice and that there will be no other wars. It seems that everyone keeps mentioning the summer solstice, why not the winter solstice when Harry is in school? Also maybe the second prophesy could mean no other evil wizard will appear again. The possibilities of those bits of prophesy are very interesting indeed. Yes, very interesting.

yes i wanted to open thread like this too! i though i am the only one who realised that no, i didn't but... i think the other phrophecy could be important, but i won't read all the posts here now. i think i'll come back later. bye!
(ok, i know this topic isn't really new, but i found it just now, ok?)

I read the previous posts and then it hit me the 1st solstice could be when voldemort was born or became evil or something like that and none will come after (i think it was something like that sorry if its wrong) could refer to there will be no more evil wizards after (or as evil at least) or that voldemort will be reborn no more or finally if harry dies there will be no more who can ever have a chance of defeating voldemort. scary huh. well i am sure that someone will defeat voldemort but in my case its nevile longbottom but thats a long and different story (well not too long) so p.m me if you want to here it.just some thoughts on the matter hope you appreciate them.

Hmmmm.......

I definately think that the two prophecies have something to do with the seventh book..... but maybe it was just one prophecy? I don't know that JKR ever said something about there not being able to be two Seers in one prophecy, so maybe it was actually one prophecy, and the two people made it together. That's actually what I assumed upon first reading Ootp. Then they would HAVE to be related. It seems very suspicious to me..... I think its sounds like they go together, they definately are related, by coincidence or not. I think that's the type of thing JKR would do, such a subtle thing really makes a big difference. And I like the whole war thing, it sounds very, very possible. It could also mean, like, no other Dark person to match Voldemort will ever appear again in Wizarding history..... but then Harry would have to defeat him.... things are looking good. I also liked the idea of Dudley, but didn't someone say JKR kind of shot that down? To bad, but it's nice to know his birthday.

Did something important happen after the Dumby death. Cause we dont know exactly when he die, but we know it at the end of the year. Summer soltice?

This was posted by Rogueisgood in another topic.

well im split between two theories

1. The prophecies that got broke we're just that 'prophecies that got broke' they could have just been there to show what happened when one got broke so when the real prophecy about Harry and the Dark Lord is broken we know what to expect and why they cant hear it

2. It could refer to Harry defeating the Dark Lord hence ending Voldemorts reign and starting a new one of peace or whatever

Hmmm one. I like your second theory that might be just it right there! And for some reason this subject just pulls me in! wow.

I also think that the porphecies tha got smashed(and heard) had to be something important. I mean why wouldn't it? Out of all the ones JK could of chose she chose those ones just because. I don't think so!

What do you think?

Anyone think that could happen? Sounds pretty logical.

MOD EDIT: Please elaborate more in the future. One liners aren't allowed, and quotes don't count.

Forgive me for not coming here more often, but I think Prodfoot's theory on that makes a lot of sense and I wouldn't be surprised if thats it! It would be one of those hidden things or something we don't think about until it happens. Such a thing is like in either the first or second book someone said Harry in Quidditch would be replaced by a toad or something like that, and it happened (because of Umbridge). Perhaps Rowling really will set the date for the next book in the summer of '07.

What if it was a prophecy about itself. The prophecy was describing itself becoming new and that very one won't be created again. Get what I'm saying?

I have no doubt that these two broken Prophecies -- as is the case with all the "prophecies," in fact, even the most silly and random predictions we've heard from Trelawney and the like -- are pointing to one event and person in the series. (And that is why, although they are two separate orbs, what they reveal sounds as though it blends together into one statement. It's a hint towards what I've just said.)

Take a look through the books sometime and note how many instances of the numbers 20 and 21 occur. I think you'll be surprised. So, what could these numbers mean? How about defining a date for the climax of Book 7, June 20/21, the transition to the summer solstice?

Therefore, perhaps we are looking at the following scenario:

The entire series will end just past the "witching hour" of midnight, in the early morning hours of that solstice, during which the identity of the real Chosen One, the One who fulfills all of the Prophecies, will finally be revealed, although we've known this character for some time already. (I'll even go so far as to state that it is no one you would immediately suspect -- neither Neville nor Ron, and not Snape or Pettigrew either -- but a character who, while liked by many, is also consistently underestimated in terms of overall importance.)

Ok well, this is a good topic and stuff but. Dumbledore said to Harry at the end of OotP that not every prophecy in the Hall of Prophecy has been fufilled. Also Dumbledore said that the porphecy about Harry and Voldemort was only important because Voldemort made it so. He said something like this,

" If voldemort would not have heard this prophecy, would it have mattered at all? No, Voldemort made it true himself and therefor made his greatest enemy and handed him the tools to do the job! Do you have any idea how much tyrants everywhere fear the people they oppress because they know among all of the people there is bound to be one who will overthrow them. Would you have hated the Dark Arts and Voldemort if he would not have killed your parents, would you be able to rest until you tried to destroy him?" Said Dumbledore.

"No, I want him dead, and I want to do it!!" said Harry.

"Of course you do, because Voldemort himself planted a buring desire in you to kill him!" Said dumbledore.
Then Harry fully realized what Dumbledore was saying all along. It was like being dragged into an arena to die or walking into the arena to face death. Most would say there was little choice in between the two, but Harry knew, and so did his parents and so did Sirius.

Wow that took a long time to write, anyway what I am trying to say is that J.K. accidentally did it like the Mark Evans thing. Or she did it to drive us crazy. I think that is the first one.
Soo what do you think?

I thought the same thing. I think that it is somethink that JKR would do, put something important in very subtly. If this is right though it means that the wizarding world would be saved and everything would be great. As much as i would love for the 7th book to end happilly i dont thik that JKR would these stories in a super happy ending.

About that war theory people were speaking of earlier in this topic, if there won't be a war after the second war ("and none will come after"), then that means Harry wins the fight with Voldemort, because if Voldemort would win and Harry would be no more, then the war would go on, between good and evil, between death eaters and aurors, if you will.
I don't think that's it.

These are the dates of the Solsitce, accourding to Rogueisgood:
21th December
21th March
21th June
21th September
Aren't those the dates of the seasonal changes? I believe they are, I looked them up. Seasonal change could be metaforic: change of parties/ change of power. It doesn't seem likely to me.

Marieke

Wasn't Voldermort born at the winter solsitce? i think it was new years eve, not sure on the exact dates though. But that could mean he is the last dark lord, or last of SS decentents.

Also, does anyone know the birthdays of Sirus and Regulus? Could be the last of the Blacks

Scrolling through this topic, I started to think, what if the seventh book isn't just telling about one year in harry's life? So maybe, just possibly, Harry will have a child, and maybe that's what the prophecy is reffering to, that Harry will have one child at the solstice, and no others, or maybe, it means that the child will be the last of the Potters, that the child won't have children his/herself?
I'm not saying that I think it will happen for sure, it was just really a thought.

Hahahaha come on guys nobody here has thought of this one...

When did we get the new title for the 7th book...?

December 21st

When is the winter solstice...?

December 21st

That takes care of the "at the Solsitce will come a new..."

Now, what is the 7th book...?'

The last in a series.

We now also have "and none will come after"

A coincidence? I think not. But that is for you to decide

Phoenix...

What a genius. There are so many reasons that are just not so beautifully simple as that one. Any theories on then why the release date for the 7th book is so close to the release date for the OOP movie. Surely cannot be a coincidence. From a marketing stand point, the more spread out, the greater the hype, the more money to be made. So what makes these dates so significant?

There is actually a thread for the relevance of the release dates for both the OOTP movie, and HPDH book. But, just so you can get an answer of sorts, I figured I would reply here.

Ok, I am still working on what significance the release date for the movie has, but I have given the book's release date (7/21/07) some thought. Here is what I have found with research, as well as some thoughts of my own.

First, we know the importance that the number 7 plays in the wizarding world. It was considered to be such a powerful number, that Voldermort chose to make 7 horcruxes. If you take a look at the release date for Deathly Hallows (7/21/07), you will see that each of these numbers share the common denominator, 7. If we break it down to just 7's, we get five 7's. If we assign each of these 7's to one of Voldermort's horcruxes (Tom Riddle's Diary, Marvolo Gaunt's Ring, Salazar Slytherin's Locket, Nagini, Helga Hufflepuff's Cup, something off either Gryphndor's or Ravenclaw's, and of course Voldermort himself) and remove the ones that have already been found, then we have five. In Deathly Hallows, Harry must find the remaining five Hocruxes and destroy them. 5 Hocruxes multiplied by 7 and placed into the most logical order we come up with 07/21/07.

Keep in mind, this is only my theory.

There are some other theories, but you can look those up. I just thought I would put mine here since haven't ever put it online before now.

Well done Phoenix! That makes a lot of sense! Though still a little confusing, why would she give info on when we get the title, then say there will be no more. That's like saying there will be no clues. If it was referring to no more books, then wouldn't she have referred to the release date of the book in "At the solstice will come a new"?

Sorry if it was a little confusing. I wrote the theory pretty late, and with most things, it is easier explained in person.

As for why the prophecy would refer to the day we got the title as, "at the solstice will come a new" and not the release of the book can only be truly explained by JKR. But, that doesn't mean we can't guess. Two reasons come to mind.

First, although JKR could not control when she was finished writing Deathly Hallows, she could control when she would decide on a final title. By telling herself that come 12/21/07 she would decide on a title, she would be able to include the prophecy being discussed as soon as two books previous. So as not to put a time limit on when she would finish the book, she decided on this course of action.

Second, in many cultures, including our own, a person or thing has no identity until it receives a name or title. By giving the final book it's name, it makes it official, something with an identity of sorts. Therefore, when we received the title of the last book, it was a comformation of its existence.

- Phoenix

I thought it was smash to let us know that if AD did not want LV to get the prophecy he could have just smashed it using a spell. But AD was using the prophecy to bait LV into the open and prove he was back.

I have my own theory for why Harry will leave the Dursley's early. I don't agree with Enigma's theory that the enjoyable thing is his being able to fight...while that would be enjoyable, I think JK meant something really enjoyable...like a wedding...perhaps Bill and Fluer's? And maybe something bad will happen...like a Death Eater attack? I wish I had a Time Turner to get to July because this suspense is killing me!

I don't think this has been mentioned before...

Those prophecies we heard could have been from ages ago, way before harry was born.

Couldn't it have reffered to Harry?

Summer Solstice is the longest day of the year and is only 10 days before Harry was born. Not too far away.

Oooh i have a better theory that just popped into my head.

'At the solstice will come a new' A new enlightenment? Did Voldemort hear about the prophecy at solstice??

'And none will come after' After LVs downfall none of his death eaters went after him...we didn't hear the whole prophecy could the woman have said 'and none will come after him' or something like that? The prophecies when put together could have reffered to Voldemorts downfall....

x