I was just wondering something. Could it be possible that there is some meaning as to the Gryffindor Rubies falling in the end of HBP?

"the giant Gryffindor hour-glass had ben hit by a curse and the rubies within were still falling, with a loud rattle, on to the flagstones below..." (Harry Potter and the Half-Blood Prince, Chapter Twenty-Eight, Flight of the Prince, page 561, Children's Edition)

",and Gryffindor rubies glistened on the floor like drops of blood..." (Harry Potter and the Half-Blood Prince, Chapter Twenty-Nine, The Phoenix Lament, page 570, Children's Edition)

I'm only wondering, could it be a sort of significance that Gryffindors, meaning the good people, lost? Dumbledore was a Gryffindor as well, could it signify his death? Could it be that in Book 7, the Slytherin Emeralds fall, to signify Voldemort's death, as he was a Slytherin, if he dies? Or could it forshadow that Gryffindor has already lost, and that Slytherin will win this battle?

What do you guys think?

I really think you've stumbled onto something here...

The rubies are mentioned twice, and as we all know, Jo has often used repetition when something was important. It really is sad. Maybe it is just a sort of an outward projection of the tragedy of Dumbledore's death - he was the ultimate Gryffindor, wasn't he? Even the hourglass, which usually calculates Gryffindor's successes, seems to mourn.

But then, I've always gotten the idea that Jo has turned the idea of death around a bit. Dumbledore wasn't afraid of it, so it has a sort of sad, but not evil feel to it. Also, one of Dumbledore's special branches of research was blood - he had discovered the twelve uses of dragon's blood, for instance. Blood seems to symbolise something good, not something evil. It could also symbolise the price he payed for Draco/Snape/wizardkind?

In that sense, I don't necessarily think that the rubies are an ominous sign - maybe just a tribute to the ultimate Gryffindor...

I agree with Capricorn. I think there is definitely a connection between the blood-drop-like rubies and Dumbledore's death. However, sdca, I'm not sure that Rowling would use the same symbolism twice, and have the Slytherin emeralds falls to represent Voldemort's death when/if he is killed... but that's just my opinion, and that's a really good catch on that connection, sdcd.

i have always belived that the gryffindor rubies falling was to sybolise the death the dumbledore since he was a gryffindor and that the attack happend right in the school.

You've definitly noticed something here!

Yes, I do think that tis symbolizis dumbledore dying, as the rubies, which represent the power and honor (house points=good) of gryffindor, and Dumbledore died that night. Also, I believe that a bit of all the gryffindors died inside when dumbledore left them. It symbolizes the order in, not just gryffindor, but all the houses, coming undone as the best headmaster of hogwarts leaves, and chaos will presumable come in the next book.

I like all of the ideas posted, but maybe it really isn't all that important. After all, it was just rubies in the gryfindor hourglass. I don't think it is anything more.

I also believe there is a connection between Dumbledore dieing and the Gryffindor rubies falling. It could have been because he was just such a great gryffindor that died or because he was in the gryffindor blood line. If the final battle between Voldemort and Harry happens at Hogwarts and the rubies fall then whe might just know there was a connection.

That is a very good theory, sdca. I never really noticed that, actually I did kind of think it was weird that the Gryffindor rubies fell on to the ground in the Entrance Hall, and not any other house's did.

Who actually hit the hourglass with the curse? If it was Snape then that would be mean that there could be a meaning to it. If it wasn't Snape than I am not sure...

If any other Gryffidnor had been killed that night then I don't think that the Gryffindor hourglass would have smashed. It was probably because Dumbledore was very imprtant Gryffindor, or was it because he was the headmaster of Hogwarts. Does that happen every time a headteacher dies at Hogwarts? Whatever house they were in when they were a student at Hogwarts the hourglass of that house would smash too.

I don't think anything as unimportant as an hourglass smashing would show us who would win the war in the magical world.

i think that the rubies in the hourglass were falling because the gryffindors were doing good things. i think they were earning points and it made it where the rubies were still falling.

maybe....this is quite outta-the-blue and unresearched, but maybe one of the rubies became a horcrux, [/something of Gryffindors] indeed , how would anyone suspect a ruby, among so many.... yet maybe, just maybe, voldemort found a way to forever curse the Gryffindors...

I believe that Harry is perceiving many things incorrectly in this series, and the implied significance of the fall of the Gryffindor rubies may be one of them. It would seem logical that this event would echo Dumbledore's death or perhaps stand as an allusion to Slytherin defeating Gryffindor by the end of HBP, but what if it is actually a symbolic gesture offering and foreshadowing the ultimate solution to this temporary setback for the House of Godric?

What if the climax of Book 7 involves yet more shedding of blood that actually is "precious as rubies," because this time the sacrifice will reveal the identity of the real but still hidden "ultimate Gryffindor" so that all who belong to his House, Harry included, can achieve one final and permanent victory over Slytherin and what he truly represents? What if it's no coincidence that this person, like the shattered hour-glass, may be associated with a curse and that this will be what leads to his horrifying but necessary death? And speaking of that hour-glass, could this event also have something to do with time itself?

Ooh, another interesting little gem of a thread that only now I'm noticing

I always thought that it was just symbolism, of blood being shed. Not just Dumbledore, obviously (was he a Gryffindor? *shrugs*) but Bill too. I didn't really think much of it beyond that, but having read through the posts here...well, I can see your points.

I mean, overall, JKR isn't too strong with the symbolism. What you see is what you get, which is why this one stands out. Which is fairly strong evidence that she wants us to take note of something here, but beyond the spilt blood, I don't know. As people here have suggested, maybe it's symbolic of Gryffindor being hurt, or the school as a whole suffering a loss, the fight finally breeching Hogwarts front doors, you know?

I agree Michelle. Also by the fact that, I think in the 5th book or maybe even the 6th that the Sorting Hat told them, They must stand united or they will fall. And more symbolistically, the hat belonged to Godric.

I think all the theories here are very interesting. I agree that the rubies indicated death or the battle...after all, there are many works of literature, especially ones involving bloodshed and battles that refers to the drops of blood that get shed as rubies. I think however, that the rubies weren't necessarly just for Dumbledore's death. He was killed by the killing curse...no actual blood shed, but perhaps the main part of the ruby symbolism has to do with the other members of Gryffindor, both current and former, who were injured in the fight with actual bloodshed (such as Bill Weasley), and maybe it's foreshadowing that blood will be spilt in book seven in order to defeat voldemort...after all, Harry's blood does run through voldemort's veins.

Wow, I never thought of it like that before. But if Dumbledore was killed at Hogwarts, and there was major chaos there the night he was killed, wouldn't that mean that the only way the Slytherin emeralds would fall is if Voldemort is killed at Hogwarts? I don't know about you, but I always thought Harry would kill Voldy alone. Does anyone else think Voldemort may be killed at Hogwarts?

I too think that the symbolism of the rubies falling is very interesting.

Indeed, especially considering the substantial worth of the rubies not only in monitory terms but also the hard work and effort that goes into earning them, each student has sacrificed something to earn a ruby - perhaps hours of studying or maybe a brave deed or perhaps even doing something kind - I think that is particularly symbolic of the sacrifice that Dumbledore made -

and the fact that they are spilling may also symbolize the ultimate sacrifice of Dumbledore or even the sacrifices and work he had yet to do and would not be able to do, like Helping Harry with the Hocruxes and others such as protection of the school which, like the gems, is not useless and scattered on the floor -

so perhaps it symbolise the loss of protection and sacrifice for the school, for Gryffindor,, for Harry and for wizard-kind

perhaps it may even reflect that rewards such as gems are not actually important but the deeds themselves and the consequences - after all DD did die to save others (without them knowing it I think), so maybe the shattering of 'rewards' may just be a reminder that good deeds do not need a reward
...
which in turn may reflect the actions of the inquisitional squad in OotP - where they blatently take the rewards from gryffindor, and supplement the Slytherin hour glass - as the slytherin house is particularily fond of rewards and honours etc

Also, Dumbledore was harmed for the first time in HBP (the withered hand) and I think that this was the first time that we had heard of any damage to the hour glass whatsoever.

I was looking for Symbolism of various things and i came across ones that made me think

Emerald-->"The green of the emerald conveys harmony, love of Nature." This could be seen in the secne with Draco not being able to kill Dumbledore. Which sould have earn him a good dead piont and that all Slytherins are evil.


Rubies-->"The red of Rubies is in a class all by itself: warm and fiery. Two magical elements are associated with the symbolism of this colour: fire and blood, implying warmth and life for mankind."
Falling of the red rubies in hogwarts could mean that the over flowing amount of love for Dumbledore, and the good deeds of each Gryffindor, and that i also Symbolizes that Harry and the OOTP will rise like wild fire and defeat him for once. That Good is not going to just stand around and do nothing. That blood will be split and that Gryffindor's will finally beat the Slytherins for good. (and former Slytherins)

Luv,
Lady L Black

well the way they are described like blood, i think it may signify the hard road ahead for the good side, i think that it shows the bloodshed that will come.

Wow, good one Lady_L_Black - I never even considered looking up the symbolism of the gems *slaps forhead*

Its especially interesting that rubies are associated with love and fire, given that the four houses are associated with the four elements; gryffindor, hufflepuff, Ravenclaw and Slytherin correspinding to fire, earth, air and water respectively

Also it is interesting tha love is a central theme of the books, particularily pertaining to Harry and his relationships, so I think that the falling of the rubies could as you say represent that love with be the power by with Harry and the OotP with "rise like wild fire"



I read somewhere that fire is particularily related to death and the heavens (as the above quote but I can't remember where I originally read it - sorry ), which I think isvery appropriate to Harry as his mother and Father have protected him in death, His Godfather is often mistaken for the Grim (a symbol of death) and now Dumbledore is dead, his other major protector - so fire (and death) and love are very sinificant for Harry

Thanks for that Lady_L_Black , you definately gave e something to scratch my noggin over

Hmm, life, death, love... I love how Jo just comes and chucks all the typical fairy tale sort of symbolism out the window. I mean, who can deny that Dumbledore was the ultimate Gryffindor? And that means that he himself is the symbol of love and a fiery passion to live. He lived a full and worthy life - if anyone in that series lived, it was Dumbledore.

With his death, though, the Gryffindor rubies fall. I like the fire idea - exactly like a phoenix! His life on earth may have come to an end, but he lives on in some way, which Harry might still find out. And please, not something to do with magical trickery of death, it's more than that. It's more courageous than that - he faced death, and lived. His soul lives on.

Anyway, like the fire will rise up from the rubies, and a phoenix rises from the ashes of a fire, life will rise up from death, where death is really only a temporary state between two lives. From real Death - the Death Voldemort will die, there can be no rising.

I like this. Rubies, fire, life, love, death, phoenix, Dumbledore, Gryffindor - they fit don't they?

I agree w/ DD nephew
I do think that the rubies did reflect DD death, but i have to think that even more important was that Hogwarts was now divided. A Hogwarts teacher just killed the Head of Hogwarts. I think that the rubies indicate that Hoqwarts is now divided, and not just by inter house compitition.

OK, that is just about the coolest piece of imagery ever. "With his death, though, the Gryffindor rubies fall. I like the fire idea - exactly like a phoenix! " That, and the quotes the first person used, those are pretty cool, if I must say so myself. So, I guess that somewhere in here I should have some imagery of my own, so I guess I will. The rubbies symbolized not only the color of Gryffindor house, but as well as a secondary reason of why the color was chosen, which leads to another question. Why did the Founders choose these colors, and for what reason? I'll contemplate that while I talk about something else for a moment. As you said, Dumbledore was everything that Gryffindor stood for, and although he was the one who said that "Only a true Gryffindor could pull that out of the hat," so Harry, I think that Dumbledore was a symbol of everything that the house held dear. When only the hour glass of Gryffindor house shattered, I have a feeling that there's more than coincidence there, and the image of the rubies scattered to the floor, like blood, that's some of the best writting J.K. Rowling has ever done. That imagry, it rivals some of the great authors, and I would put that amongs the greats like Milton and Tolkein. "Anyway, like the fire will rise up from the rubies, and a phoenix rises from the ashes of a fire, life will rise up from death, where death is really only a temporary state between two lives. " That's good too. I like that idea, which puts a different sense on tyhe whole life and death theme that has been in these novels, if hidden, since their creation. Though Dumbledore really didn't shed any blood, blood is a symbol of death, and as he was a symbol of Gryffindor, it's really a great piece of foreshadowing there. I think that, I know I say that a lot, but these are my thoughts, anyways, I think that the fire imagry makes so much sense, especially with the representation of death, and how the rubies are a symbol of everthing Dumbledore stood for; you know, that image reminds me of the rubies almost crying for what they have lost, as though they are crying blood, that's kinda what it reminds me of. And, the Phoenix, who rises from the ashes after she dies in the fires, her tears, the ones that she cried, they couldn't undo the fires of death that had taken Dumbledore. It's as if she( I'm guessing on gender here) knew that he was dead, it was as if the entire world was grieving, and that these images are representations of how everyone was grieving in their own matter. Like, in Harry's mind, all he can think about is how Dumbledore is dead, and everything he sees, none of it shines light anymore, none of it. It's as though the world is a darker place because of Dumbledore's death, and that all these symbols, they're so much more apparent because of the loss he feels. That life and death thing really comes into play, and all these signs, their not foretelling his death which has already occured, its more as if the world, everything Dumbledore fought for in his life, is now falling apart, and representing the death that has taken their beloved leader.

~La MaitressedeMort

When I look at the falling of the rubies I think of all of these things and more. With the death of Dumbledore, one of Harry's last great protectors we (and Harry) are finally beginning to understand the peril he is now in, and will be in , in the future. For me the rubies clattering on the floor are such an amazing piece of imagery they invoke memories of Dumbledore and all the blood spilt in the fight against Dumbledore. It is also openly portraying the blatant spilling of blood on Hogwarts soil, I like many, do not believe this is a mere coincidence, I believe with the loss of such a great headmaster it is as if the school itself is bleeding for the loss, or crying. Another thing it symbolizes is, like I said above, Dumbledore is the last of his great protectors, and now he must go on alone, and the falling of the blood like rubies is a way to show that his blood protection is nearly up, the time of his mothers love is all but spent. Look at the picture as a whole, the rubies are held in a huge hourglass which symbolizes time, and the rubies symbolize blood. The time of his mothers blood is coming to a close.

wow i never thought the falling gryffindor rubies that way..it was probably jkr's way of confirming dumbledore's death that it will not be possible for him to come back in physical form. he is back in his painting though.

No, I think that the falling of Gryffindor Rubies signifies something that no one has mentioned.

As much as I really hate to say this...
I think it's predicting the fall (death) of Hagrid. He's a Gryffindor, and his first name is Rubius.

It could possibly be Rufus Scrimgeour... if he is a Gryffindor, as his first name means red (like rubies), but I think it really fits Hagrid more... sadly!

I think I'll be devastated if it's true!

I never noticed that.
I have no idea what the Gryffindor rubies are but yes i think it is something important.
Hopefully it has something to do with DD.

yeah i think you def got something there .. i need to read the books again and soon .. i feel like i missed so much i think ill start 2day

I believe it is both related and unrealated. THe ruby's forshadow dumblordors death and other bad turns for Gyrifendors. But, the rubies are only symbols not something magical to connect with Dumbledoor. It is also a great place to show discriptive language.

samsmom good caqtch about hargrid, i didn't realize that. She always makes names important, good find

THis is a great topic by the way. DIscusing why JKR added all this extra stuff! love it

Yeah you're probably right about the rubies signifying DD's death. Kinda of like how Fawkes had stopped singing. Maybe once Voldy dies, the Slytherin hour glass will break or explodeor something.....

I think that the falling of the rubies is an event symbolising the death of Dumbledore, a great Gryiffindor. Although I don't think that it will have an effect in future. But I wonder if something similar will happen once Voldemort is defeated.

That is a very interesting thought. I think it might have some significance. I hope it's the Slytherin ones that fall in book 7. You are definitely right that she has used repetition in the past to signify important things. You could have a really good point there. I am not sure what this means, but that is a very good observation, I think.

I'm not sure what the falling rubies mean maybe the fall of Gryfiindoror something like that. But i do think it will be something significant for the seventh book it could be foreshadowing something like i don't know well actually i don't want to say it the fall of harry potter which means he dies by a spell .

im going to have to disagree. i dont think it symolisesanythink similar will happen in the 7th book. i tihnk it is mearly a by product of the battle between the DE's and the OoTP and was done to rey and add some context to the battle. it adds more depth due to the fact that it is not only the people in the battle but there are concequenses for what they are doing. it symbolised destruction of the castle and in someway i think it might sybolise dumble dores death, especially the part about the rubies looking like blood.

i think it is mainly descriptive languge but the mind may interpret this differently among everyone.

this is just my veiw doesnt mean i am righ or wrong

Foreshadowing and the use of symbolism are two ways for an author to incorporate hidden clues to their readers, and I can only assume that Rowling makes use of these two literary traits, being the superb writer that she is. When I first read HBP, the shattered hourglass and falling rubies didn't reallylstrike my interest; I was still reeling from Dumbledore's sudden death.
But the second time I read the book, the rubies had an impact on me. Yes, like many others, I think the rubies symbolised Dumbledore's death, but what of the foreshadowing? Are the rubies foreshadowing anything? Could they foreshadow the fall of Harry, a true Gryffindor?

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I think all of these ideas are very interesting. I agree with the theory of the rubies falling down as a "tribute to the ultimate griffindor" That was a very good call. I tend to overlook many of the minor details . I LOVE HARRY

I think all of these ideas are very interesting. I agree with the theory of the rubies falling down as a "tribute to the ultimate griffindor" That was a very good call. I tend to overlook many of the minor details . is what harry and ginny siad but
I more agree years of exile "mearly a by product of the battle between the DE's and the OoTP"

i said(?) an giffendor
i mean we dont know for sure
but in hbp Voldy is put in Slytherin
also in ootp when voldy and dd fight voldy uses an snake
and in ss Harry learns that Slytherin and Giffendor are mojor rivals
Mayvo his enemy also in Slytherin
I am just helping pice this puzzle

Mod Edit: If that was netspeak, it's not allowed.

I think its an interesting tidbit u noticed there
maybe the rubies falling foreshadows something in the next book where voldemort dies, like from the gryffindor blood that runs in his veins from harry

i dont no what it means its been confusing me for a wile aswell

I definitly agree with this idea. ??Does this mean that Voldemort will have to be killed "IN" Hogwarts..... if so.... this would put hundreds of students in danger... and that definetly isnt't what Dumbledore would have wanted... but he does want Voldemort dead..... ????????Which would he want more??????????


PS... just to comment on "giantmushroom" 's post..... the blood of gryffindor would have been in Dumbledore.... and the blood of Slytherin would be in Voldemort [and it would also be in Harry too..(the magic that got transfered when the curse went wrong) so... if this theory is right..... both Voldemort and Harry will die ()

What an excellent topic!
I agree with what people have been saying about the falling rubies symbolising the death of Dumbledore, and perhaps also foreshadowing the downfall of Gryffindor - but if that's true it's very mean of JK!
However, we may all be delving into this way too deeply, and JK only mentioned the falling rubies, because it painted a dramatic picture reflecting the terror and turmoil that had occured at Hogwarts that night.

I agree. This is such a cool idea. I thought maybe about it once, but didn't really think much of it.

I think if it represents anything, it would represent all the lives of such good people being lost. The Potter's, Dumbledore, Sirius, Cedric (Though he was a Hufflepuff) and so on ... i mean, so many people have died and there are certainly more to come, and i think the rubies falling represents that.

Also, two very interesting points occur to me:

Ruby symbolizes passionate love.
Ruby is the birthstone associated with July

Ok, anyone find it strange that harry's birthday is in July, and that Love is his most powerful weapon? I some how do. Hmmm ... these are the questions that haunt me ...

I think maybe she was symbolizing that there was more blood to be shed before Voldys downfall. Or maybe she was hinting to the fact the DD was about to die. Either way, i do think that the ruby reference is somewhat important

I think that the falling rubies were symbolic, but i dont think they will have any improtance in the future

At first with all these forshadowing ideas I just thought people were looking way to far into this... But know I think that your on to something...

I think JK was just making us realize that Dumbledore had just died, and just make us think of the important part that he played in the book...
Like he was a great Gryffindor and he had died so the hourglass had shown the rubies falling and stuff...

I don't know, but I like everyones theories on this.

Maybe Snape hit the hour-glass for his final effort to keep Gryffindor from winning the House-Cup! Lol!

I don't know if the Gryffindor hourglass is symbolic of anything so much as just simply the fact that death and destruction is everywhere. That could simply be the case, or it could be a tribute or mourning for Dumbledore.

I never noticed that...but it seems to make a connection between the falling of the rubies and the death of Dumbledore...I must say that I will greatly miss dumbledore in the DH.

I think this means nothing more, or less, then the fact the blood of a Gryfindor/'s will be spilled... and pobobly to the point of death. I lean to that person still being at school, because the rubies represent gryfindor students... I think the trio gets a pardon on this, as i dont think any of them die...

But of the big characters, that leaves Ginny, Neville, Dean, or Seamus, Lavender, Pavarti ...not that Dean or Seamus, Lavender, or Pavarti are what I wpuld call BIG to the books, but they have more to the story then say, Peakes or Coote (the beaters Harry picked up)

Of Neville or Ginny, I lean more to Ginny... she has been more involved, as of late, then Neville.

I think Ginny would take a curse in Harry's place... she loves him.

I think the falling rubies is a metaphor of sorts to the death of DD. However, to take it one step further, I think it is a hint from JKR of DD's heritage. I believe he is the descendant of Gordric Griffindor and that's why JK put it in there. Just a little piece of info that we would probably have normally overlooked. Just like the griffin knocker on DD's door. Griffin (knocker) door: Griffindor. I don't think the rubies symbolize or foreshadow the future. To me, they are just a little juicy piece of hint from the master author herself.

wow, that's really good. could harry and voldemort possibly fight for the last time in hogwarts, and maybe one of voldemort's spells hits the slytherin jewels. this could go along with the respectable death/voldemort's suicide thing. he could accidently end up killing himself.

whoever thought of that and did research on it could be on to something.

i dont think that they mean anything. i think that JK just used that to show what was going on in the castle. though i must say it dose create a very good picture.