DD thinks Trelawney is important unlike Umbridge.So even when she is fired she is still alowed to live within the castle.I think its the weird people that are the important people.Like Luna I think that luna and trelawney will team up and do some good for the world and for harry.But then again i like weird people and weird coincidences so don't go by my dawdlings.

I just got done reading the 3rd book again, and it turns out, that in ron's tea leaves, the prediction was "You're going to suffer, but you're going to be happy about it". In book 5 when they were in the department of mysteries in the brain room, Ron had the brains attacking him, but he had that laughing hex on him. So the brains were hurting him, but he was happy about it because of the hex.

If both sides are correct, could mean Harry's death?

well divination is a lot of guess work, however well done for finding that i think you could be onto something

trelawny always seems to be right, about lavender and her rabbit, neville and the cup, ron and the department of mysteries. we also know that she has made at least 2 proper prophecies which i think are true as well.

also in HBP before harry goes with dumbledore to the cave she talks about the lghtning struck tower. this is directly related to the chapter title where dumbledore dies and so she may have forseen his death or something bad happening there as well.

i think there is more to trelawny than mcgonagall or dumbledore sees, i think that her predictions should definatley be more trusted in the last book, if we see her again.

on the subject of harrys death, i hope she is wrong but if could be foreshadowing for the future...

There's definately more to Trelawny, and McGonnagal does seems to overlook her ability, but that's probably becuase she hasn't heard her make a true prediction yet. But Dumbledore doesn't overlook her qualities. He knows what she's capabale of, but he just decided to ignore her warnings about the lightning struck tower becuase his death was possible planned and he expected trouble. Also, I think that she is forshadowing Harry's death. She has always been right so far...

I think that Trelawny is not a fraud. After all, she did predict that Voldemort's servent would return. She probaly isn't always able to conect with her ability.

I dont think she is a fraud obviously how could she be she made the prophecy and other things like when she talked in the PoA to harry...not to mention the lightning struck tower, i do think however she cant be consistent in predicting things because most of the time she does make things up.

although when you were talking about this bit....



it technically isnt true..as ron was reading HARRY'S tea leaves not his own
D.A

No, I don't think Trelawney's a fraud when she's prophecising and what not but in the third and fourth books when she's predicting Harry's left and right: yeah, didn't believe all that. But most of the time she seems to be right on with her predictions. There's definetly more to her than meets the eye.

i couldn't beleive that she was right she's like never right! i hope to god that the predictions she makes for harry in her class to come true eh? you know the ones she makes that harry will have a horific death? I so hope that she is WRONG!

i think trawlenlymay be like a partly fraud.

a fraud but can tell the futER at the same time, i aren't realy sure because she has always seemed like a fraud!

Well, shes a fraud in a way, but shes so far been good about predictions. As I have seen atleast, prophecies, predictions of death and hurt, and all that junk.

I would have to say that since she made real prophecies, then she can't really be a fraud. Maybe her real self is behind all that sherry?

She's not really a fraud, more of an exaggerator. If she let the Sight come to her, rather than ever-seeking it, than she might be looked upon with more respect. It seems she is so afraid of being thought of as a fraud that she blankets those around her with predictions in the hope they are right. We have seen multiple times she has been right on occasion, and most likely we should look into all the non-sense divination we have seen, and consequently been taught to disregard as rubbish magic.... I think that was to lead us away.

~Albus

Lets just say she isn't what she thinks she is...She wants to be all mystical and ethereal, but comes across as plain weird.
We can't overlook her two 'real' prophecies', and there's this, from HBP:

''Her bony hand closed suddenly around Harry's wrist.
'Again and again, no matter how I lay them out - '
And she pulled a card dramatically from underneath her shawls.
' - the lightning struck tower,' she whispered. 'Calamity. Disaster. Coming nearer all the time...''

If that isn't some sort of foreshadowing for the end of HBP, Dumbledore's death, which happens in the astronomy tower, then I don't know what is...

I don't think she's a fraud.
I think she is giving Harry genaral warnings about his death.
So may of her predictions have come true like with Dumbledores death and the lightning struck tower. And that Wormtail will reunited with Lord Voldermort.
Everyone seems not to believe her which makes me believe in her.

i think she doesn´t even know herself how talented she is.
no, i don´t believe her to be a fraud.but mostly after she told important things she can´t remember them herself...
so there is the possibility that she is trying to look more "knowing", than she actually believes herself to be...(horrible sentence sorry...hope you got what i wanted to say?!)

i dont think that trelawny is a fraud !!!i mean she prophecied the thing voldemort was even so keen to find out!!!!!and what about the lightning struck tower(HBP) and about wormtail reunited to the dark lord (POA)
i think that as she is not a pure sheer (from 9 generations no one was)so she has brief periods when she can make a prophecy or predict future.......

~vidhi

Poor, poor Sybill! She is completely misunderstood by the wizarding world. I think that seers are just unaccepted by the wizarding community. Maybe because they haven't had a "true" seer in many, many years. I must admit that I do not think Trelawny is a fraud. She has made two prophecies. Among several little glimpses into the future. Although, she can't turn her Sight on and off which makes it hard for people to believe her. Like, when someone asks her to make a prediction, she can't do it. She doesn't choose when her Sight is going to happen. It just kind of does. I have complete confidence in her ability and I'm sure, if she laid off the sherry, everyone else would too! Maybe if she didn't exaggerate so much and if her clothing came a little closer to the 21st centuary, then maybe, just maybe, people would have some respect for her. And I think that she still has at least one prediction left in her. Which will come into play in the 7th book when Harry is most in need of some reassurance.

Well, for me, I think that she is a fraud when she's doing preeditions to get people's attention. Like when she predicts Harry's death, in the 3rd and 4th books. But in the 5th book she says that Harry's gonna grow old, be a minister for magic and have a dozen of children. That was after Harry gave the interview for The Quibler.

She only gives lasting predictions, or shall i say prephcies, and she never seems to remember them. And i agree with D.A that the tea leaves were HARRY'S NOT RON'S. they switched cups.

Lina

no, no i don't think that she's a fraud for these resons
- she's made the correct prediction when sirius came back in the 3rd
- she also predicted the most famous profisy ( and sure how to spell it but you know what i mean.) which was the one that made it all, all of it happen.
- another was the lighting struck tower when dumbledor died
and i'm sure that she's made more.

I don't think she is a fraud.

Like the example on 1st post.She was right.

Also Remember the profecy(sorry don't remember how to spell it)

I think trealwny is a fraud because her predictions usually are not correct- the tea leaves that ron read were meant for harry- not ron and ron read the tea leaves incorrectly nonetheless. But trelawney also has some power to see the future that i feel she cannot control- its more like something possesing her and using her to get messages through. Like in the 3rd book when she starts talking in that weird voice to harry saying that "inncocent blood will be spilt" and "servant and master shall be reunited once more." This came true but she never even remembered and also happened again with dumbledore when she was at an interview. She told him the prophecy but didnt remember it again. So telawney is basically a fraud but at the same time has some psycic power that im still confused about.

Well I really don't know what to think about her. One one hand she appears to be an old fraud speaking in misty voice and all. But some of her predictions apart from the two she made about Harry and Voldemaort and about Peter escaping and VOldemort coming back, have come true. Like in the forth book she says that death was circling the castle and Cedric Diggory did die. And then in the sixth book,she said that there was to be a disaster concerning Dumbledore and he also died that very night.
Maybe I'm just assuming things but there is more to this character I think.

Uhm...I'd say that she definetly has some special abilities, but most of the time, she doesn't recognise them herself. I'm sure Dumbledore must have seen something, and Mc gonagall...well she just doesn't believe in all this divination stuff.
But yes, sometimes Trewlaney says the truth, but nobody realises it...Although, she's been predicting Harry's death for years, and decided he was going to die pretty soon, so she could definetly be wrong on that (hopefully!)

Oops - sorry I didn't spot this thread before now. It's a duplicate, I'm afraid, but I won't shut it down seeing as there's so many replies now, but I will need to merge it with the existing thread.

Before, I used to think that the "grim" in Harry's teacup was Sirius. Padfoot does look a lot like it, after all. However, recently, I began thinking, what if the grim really is the grim, and Harry will die, though 4 years after Trelawney first predicted it? This certainly does seem like the unforeseen type of thing JKR likes to sneak up on us with. Most people are convinced that it wasn't the grim, but just Sirius in his animagus form! This would be perfect for JKR. If she wanted to kill Harry, that is. And it is possible that Harry will die, however much we don't want him to.

Basically, I've noticed recently that whatever Trelawney predicts seems to be true, so that's how come I decided the grim is really predicting Harry's death. Like in the middle of book 6, Trelawney walked around with those cards muttering that however she layed them out, they spelled trouble in the astronomy tower. And of course nobody payed attention to her, and yet it turned out to be true. So I think we need to pay attention with the grim thing, too.

i think they are all merely coincidences like with neville and the cup she made him so nervous that he was bound to break a cup

this could be totally crazy...

One of the biggest arguments against the accuracy of Prof. Trelawney's in-class predictions is about Harry's Birthday, remember??? something to the extent of "I believe you were born in midwinter?.."

Well, Voldemort was born on New Years.. that's pretty close to midwinter...

Now, hold that thought, McGonagall accuses divination of being "imprecise", right? Well think about what imprecise really means... approximate truth... not flat out lies...

and then there's the undeniable complication of the peculiar connection between Harry and Lord Voldemort.

A lot of the stuff that Trelawney predicts about Harry is negative. Lord Voldemort has had a tough few years in a number of ways.

So it's just a theory, but is Professor Trelawney Seeing Voldemort's future and confusing it with Harry's?

...anybody who feels like shooting down this theory, please go ahead, I'll be intrigued.

Here is why I think that Trelawney might have more than cobwebs in her brain. Either that, or it's a pure coincidence, but with Rowling, there aren't that many coincidences.

On Christmas Dinner, Trelawney actually joins the Staff for a meal, a completely rare occurance in itself. At first, she has misgivings because thirteen sit together. She said "I dare not, Headmaster! If I join the table, we shall be thirteen! Nothing could be more unlucky! Never forget that when thirteen dine together, the first to rise will be the first to die!"The two people to rise, obviously, are Ron and Harry. Is this pure stuperstitiuos mania, or will this seriously influence Book 7? For this one, I think that it is part is a little unfounded because DD ended up dying first. Maybe DD stood up once to make some comment, I shall look in HP3.

Harry, Ron, Hermione, Arthur, Molly, Fred, George, Bill, Ginny, Lupin, Tonks, Sirius, and Mundungus! They all sit (I think that is all of them?) and dine together in Harry Potter 5. Sirius rises first... and he dies FIRST!

Does anyone see any other packs of thirteen? I am trying to find them now, but I am not sure if there is any more.

i know exactly wat you mean louise and i had overlooked most of thoses things and thought myself that trelawney was an old fraud but any way you have made a good point...i was just reading OOTP again so that i could compare it with the movie and i just realised that trelawney said that umbridge was going to have a close enough incident to death...and if you noticed she had insulted the centures and they kicked her around so that was right aswell wasnt it??? but she could have just made it up on the spot...because she hated umbridge!! you never know but yet another prediction come true!!!!!

xxxx
hermione

p.s: classicalrevenclawwriter you left out moody!!! sorry but the theory is wrong!!:(

harry did experience happiness becuase when he found out about sitious being good and sirious asked harry to live him he was really happy.

She also says this....


Ok, Conflict: Harry and Hermione had just been arguing before this.
An ill omen: Possibly Katie Bell, who gets injured after this.
Violence: The Quidditch match
A dark young man etc. : Harry. She walked right past him. He was troubled at the time and he dislikes Trelawney.

Anyone agree with me?

I totally agree

"The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn't exist. " Verbal Kint

so if Jo is hiding the truth in Trelawneys predictions and making it seems that Trelawney is a complete fake then I'm sure we'll see alot more of Sybil and more of her predictions early in the book

I agree with chhermione and Luv_n_Hermione, the idea of Trelawney is that she is not the seer that her Grandmother was, but, she is a seer.

I've come up with a thought, however, that explains her inconsistancies. She is very clever... things like Neville and the cup... the power of suggestion, and Lavender and the dreaded thing... being so vague that the prediction can fit just about anything. These are tricks that she uses to cover up the fact that she has no self-confidence (hence the drinking). What she doesn't realize is that all she has to do is relax!!!!

Think about when she makes her correct predictions (and the prophecy).

• She makes the prophecy after she is sure that she has failed the interview with DD and not gotten the teaching job... hence the tension and nervousness is over and she's resolved to the fact that it's over so she relaxes.
• She made the prediction about Wormtail after the class is over and the kids are gone... Harry comes back with the crystal ball that Hermione knocked over, and hears her in her trance.
• Her prediction about the 'lightning struck tower','Calamity. Disaster. Coming nearer all the time...' 'Two of spades: conflict,' she murmured, as she passed the place where Harry crouched, hidden. 'Seven of spade: an ill omen. Ten of spades: violence. Knave of spades: a dark young man, possibly troubled, one who dislikes the questioner-' happened when she was drunk and feeling no pain... about as relaxed as it gets!

While others of her predictions may touch on other aspects of what's going on, the ones above are specific and indisputable. Perhaps they should get her drunk again and set her talking. It's obvious that she doesn't realize that she can truly do it, and tries too hard when she's not relaxed!

That's a really good idea, samsmom! Admittedly, I never noticed that before. But that doesn't concide with this: when she was walking past Harry who was hidden, she seemed troubled. And when she made the lightning struck tower prediction, she was trying to hide her sherry bottles and got angry because Malfoy threw her out of the RoR. Maybe I'm wrong.

*chhermione*

ermm.... harry's great happinesss...hello....ginny! going out with her was a great happiness!

maybe great happiness could also be dying. as dying would probly bring him happiness as he would get his family, his suffering would end.

If Trelawney was right about all of these things (eg. Neville breaking the cup, Lavender's rabbit dying and the events on the Tower in HBP) then could she be right about Harry's premature death? She has been saying it all throughout the books...

I have been re-reading the books tately and not but help notice Trelawney.

From the third book she has started with 5 predictions, the following:
- Neville's Grand mother is not well.
- Harry shall die.
- One of the followers of Voldy will come back and help him(Voldy) come back too.
- Something Lavender would not like shall happen.
- A sudent shall leave the class forever.

Now, all of those predictions did happen, whether you thinkshe IS a fraund or IS NOT one.
- Neville's Grand mother was sick.
- Harry might (and I do think so) die.
- Wormtail came back and helped Voldy come back.
- Lavender's pet died.
- Hermione left (class).

Now she HAS been RIGHT for the moment.

Okay about DD making her get the job:
" DD went to get an interview with her and he thought she was a fraud. Until she rose and started to make a proficy! He did not want to fire her after what happenned and chose to let her teach."
Okay everything is nice & happy. But remember, DD never thought Divination was interesting and never was good at it, like Hermione if you want. So he might have thought, like Hermione, that she was a fraud when she wasn't.
Later on the prediction comes true!

In the third book again Lupin did not want to be gazed with a crystall ball and let Trelawney know he was a werewolf. Maybe he knew that she wasn't a fraud.

In the sixth book she keeps on saying that no matter how she lays the cards it always says that DD will have a probleme at the LIGHTING STRUCK TOWER. This came true.

Now it might happen that Trelawney's prediction might come to use in the seventh book for Harry to help him know stuff... or Voldy by letting him know the proficy (by using the reverse of occlumency) and make her maybe predict more. Making her even more a weapon.

I think she's a predictor, the real thing

Dumbledore wouldn't have led Harry on to believe that the prophecy was right unless he knew she was on the right wing. I mean is it likely for Albus to ever be wrong? Yes he supposedly was wrong about Snape but we don't know for sure if it was planned or not.

I know she is real but sorry to contridict myself but... DD said it was real only because of Voldy following it (thank you Prof. Snape for once ). It's not obliged that it was only because Voldy followed it.

Where is this stated? Can't remember really...



All the teachers actually knew that he is a werewolf. He says that himself in the shreiking shack. And I assume that the crystal ball you're talking about is when he faces the boggart, right? If so, then that is a full moon, Lupin don't like to become a werewolf.

Sorry for critisizing, but I wanted to clear some things out!



I read somewhere on this forum that one of the patented titles was "Last Prophecy", but it was just rumors from mugglenet, if I remember right . Well, I think he may have use for Trelawney's predictions, because she isn't a 100% fraud, as you've stated.

I think there is a serious ambiguity in the text about Divination. DD says he puts little stock in it and never studied it, and yet admits that Sybil made two actual predictions. So he acknowledges the reality of trance states, but perhaps thinks it is not a proper science?
Is the Hall of Prophecies full of balls of hot air, or are all those spheres containing the results of genuine trance states?

Everything about the books seems to point to the legitimacy of the notion of divination in principle, though people's success with it is highly questionable in fact. If time can be repeated, chances are it allows some kind of looping forward as well. If space can be encapsulated in a fullness not present in our experience by a pensieve, then it seems like divination may be able to see space differently--more fully--too.

Just a short note - this topic has already been created, I'm afraid. However, seeing as there have been a few good posts made in here over the last day or so, I'll merge the two.

Can I just remind everyone to please make sure that you do a search of the forum for existing similar topics before creating new ones? Thanks

EDIT : There's also a topic here about the significance of the "Lightning Struck Tower" that you might be interested in.

i think that trelawneys predictions or more than usually accuarate. just sometimes not directed at the right person. i think she fore-saw harry meeting sirius in POA, though it wasnt a death omen, merely his animagus. In the GOF she mentioned death..well cedric did indeed die, and with harry, so maybe she sensed that also. and we all know about HBP where she kept checking the tarot cards and saw the lightning struck tower which did indeed happen. So I really think their is some accuracy to most of her predictions

i think trewlaway is a true seer. maybe not the bes, but a seer. in PoA, she was right about quite a few things. expecially when she went all weird. also, in other books, she mentions certain things,and later they become important. for example, when harry was going to dumbledores office, she mentioned something happening at the lightning tower(or whatever it's called) then, later dumbledore is kiled there. also, she made the phropecy and all. so, i think she is justa very weak seer.but she is always right about something to do with evil, or voldemort

At Christmas in PoA, the remaining students and teachers eat together at the same table.

1. Dumbledore
2. Snape
3. McGonagall
4. Flitwick
5. First Year
6. First Year
7. Slytherin Fifth Year
8. Harry
9. Ron
10. Hermione
11. Filch
12. Sprout
13. Trelawney

Now, as you may remember, Trelawney panicks over the idea of thirteen people dining together, but reluctantly joins them. Then, Harry and Ron stand up at the same time and she cries "which one of you stood up first!" Her panicking is that "the first to rise will be the first to die." Well, neither Harry nor Ron are the first to die, Dumbledore is!

This proves that Trelawney is not always right.

Oh, good job in finding that out. Some people have tried to use this to predict that either Harry or Ron will die but it is not either of them it is Dumbledore. And with Trelawney it makes fourteen, anyway. So good job.

Good job finding that, but when she sat down, there were 14 people, not 13, so that will probably mess up the prediction. Trelawney may be wrong at times, but that would not be proof.

Uh, guys, Trelawney was the thirteenth person. Look closely at the list again.

trelawny makes thirteen... she was the 13th person, so your theory was wrong... and i think she meant of a natural death ... not being killed with the avada kedavra... just my view



trelawny makes thirteen... she was the 13th person, so your theory was wrong... and i think she meant of a natural death ... not being killed with the avada kedavra... just my view

I think that you may be right to say that, as I now think think that there will be a big role for her to play in the seventh book.

Mod Edit: Could you please elaborate in your next posts? Short posts don’t give people much to respond to. Also, please have a look at the rules again. Thanks!