Albus Dumbledore
Jul 8 2006, 09:05 PM
QUOTE
"... I think you must know that I have seen and done much since I left this place. I could show and tell your students things they can gain from no other wizard."
Dumbledore considered voldemort over the top of his goblet for a while before speaking.
"Yes, I certainly do know that you have seen and done much since leaving us," he said quietly. "Rumors of your doings have reached your old school, Tom. I should be sorry to believe half of them."
Voldemort's expression remained impassive as he said, "Greatness inspires envy, envy engenders spite, spite spawns lies. You must know this, Dumbledore."
"You call it 'greatness,' what you have been doing, do you?" asked Dumbledore delicately.
"Certainly," said Voldemort, and his eyes seemed to burn red. "I have experimented; I have pushed the boundaries of magic further, perhaps, then they have ever been pushed--
"Of some kinds of magic," Dumbledore corrected him quietly. "Of some. Of some you remain...forgive me... woefully ignorant."
For this time, Voldemort smiled. It was a taut leer, and evil thing, ore threatening then a look of rage.
This is so extraordianry in my mind. One of the best parts of the series....
As you all know Dumbledore went on to explain how he knew about the DEs int he Hogshead... blah blah blah.
What I want to talk about is the dialogue. What has Tom done that would be knowledge enough to reach Dumbledores ears. I am almost positive that he couldnt be talking about the Horcruxes, then what else. Where else did he push magic beyond it boundaries. I love this conversation, and it opens alot of questions. What do you think.
I think Dumbledore may have been talking about the Death Eaters and that he had heard that they had starting threatening people into becoming followers of Voldemort.
Dumbledore is obviously saying that Voldemort is ignoring the magic of Love, as usual, and is assuming that it is not a powerful weapon.
JK Rowling has a lot of explaining to do because it always seems to me that Dumbledore knows a hell of a lot more then he ever lets on and we haven't found out everything that he knew about Voldemort, not yet anyway.
Not sure if I actually answered any of your questions there but I still think it's a pretty interesting conversation. I don't think we should take anything Dumbledore has ever said or done lightly!
Albus Dumbledore
Jul 9 2006, 07:56 PM
Yeah, im talking about Tom saying about him going further than anyone with magic... It is surprisingly like what he said to Harry in the Graveyard... I wonder what else he did to himself... and why alo tof people knew.... and what else he has seen and done that is common knowledge.... at he makes it seem like common knowledge.
bluephoenix5
Jul 9 2006, 11:23 PM
This is a great and very interesting conversation between dd and lv. it shows how they talk and how they have changed over the years. dd is right that in some ways of doing magic he has pushed the boundries such as the unforgivable curses or so. voldemort really sometimes doesn't use common sense when it comes to magic. he doesn't think before he acts...he acts more on nerve and impulse. anyway...voldemort has done a lot of powerful magic and he thinks he better because of what he has done in the past and present. like in the conversation here i think dd is trying to tell voldemort that there are boundries and that he has definetley crossed and pushed that line...
Albus Dumbledore
Jul 12 2006, 08:31 PM
BUt Why would Tom say to Dumbledore of the boundaries he has pushed, and how does Dumbledore know what they ae. What did Tom do that would be so extraordianry that he would still be allowed to walf freely wihtout persecution or fear, and still ask for a position at Hogwarts but get refused because DD is dissapointed in him for whatever he has done
bluephoenix5
Jul 12 2006, 10:42 PM
I am probably wrong about this but perhaps one of the extroadinary things is services for the school. he basically stopped all the attacks and framed hagrid for it, even though no one knew it was him, and got an award for "saving" and "helping" the school. perhaps that is why he was aloud to still go back and do things. i think though that dumbledore have suspected that tom had something to do with what had happened and plus had seen what he had done after he left hogwarts and perhpas that's why he refused him, etc. like it said i am probably wrong and i probably don't make much sense either. still the extroadinary thing could have been killing many innocent people, becoming more pwoerful and killing harry.
abdar
Jul 15 2006, 04:17 PM
Although i do agree that this was and interesting conversation and hope there is more to read into and i just cant see it, but didnt Dumbledore already explain that Tom wanted to come back to get artifacts that belonged to Ravenclaw and Gryfyndor so that he could use them to complete his collection of horcruxes from the original Hogwarts heads
it does seem a good possibility that he would have opened the Chamber of Secrets again and DD suspected him for that anyway but im sure Vd was more clever than that, knowing that every teacher had thought he was the brightest student they'd ever taught
And as for him using Hogwarts as a recruiting station, my thoughts are that if parents got so worked up about haveing a werewolf teaching their kids then dont you think the kids would have told their parents what they were being taught, who would then complain to DD and he would put an end to Vd's teaching career. Voldemort knows better than to put himself in positions like that so it seems that DD explanation is the only one that makes sense
Nemesis
Jul 18 2006, 10:30 PM
hmm..very intersting points here people...How about this...
Remember in the other part of the conversation dumbledore said "Why have you come here tom for a position that you do not wish to take" or something like that...
and voldermort stil acted like he wanted the position..
I think right theyre voldermort was acting out and testing how much dumbledore knew of him and what hes done and also to see how far he could push him...and no offense..but Tom wasnt a slytherin for nothing..nor the heir of slytherin for nothing to boot...
If he became a teacher he would of subtly moved the kids in his direction..and he would teach things deemed approriate..but he would also probaly teach them individualy ..like whoever he thinks was worth it...
theyre are many points we can argue about this conversation...and im sure all the questions will be answered in book 7...
GOOD TOPIC ALBUS DUMBLEDORE!
ILoveHarryPotter07
Jul 23 2006, 10:30 PM
QUOTE(Lei @ Jul 9 2006, 06:18 AM) [snapback]199901[/snapback]
JK Rowling has a lot of explaining to do because it always seems to me that Dumbledore knows a hell of a lot more then he ever lets on and we haven't found out everything that he knew about Voldemort, not yet anyway.
I totally agree...Dumbledore has ALWAYS known more than he tells or has let on. I think that is his character flaw..he tries to protect people by only telling what is necessary at the moment, also I think that there is more to that conversation than meets the eye. We know he knows about the complete ovious things..Death Eaters, Killings, Unforgivable Curses. But I wonder if he did somthing else to himself..somthing worse than Horecruxes.. But we also have to figure in the factor that Dumbledore defeated the greatest dark sorcerer of his time too..so there must be some secrets..you know..and I think that Voldemort might be worse..this entire thing is basically a quest for eternity.
Courtney
TheManekin
Nov 7 2006, 10:23 AM
He may have been talking about the horcruxes or the DEs. Althought they DEs aren't really magic, just a crowd. my guess is probably horcruxes. theyr'e pretty magical and pushjing boundries. But hopefully its something new that we learn in the next book! oh know DDs dead so we may nerv find out. But...do you think that Harry can still see into DDs pensieve because then that may still help him out. or do you think harry will get a pensieve to help him?
After the Burial
Nov 7 2006, 04:07 PM
Tom was obviously enamoured with the Dark Arts. If we continue this passage, Tom says something like, "Ah, your famous pronouncement. But nowhere have I seen evidence of your claim that love is more powerful than my kind of magic."
Dumbledore, knowing that Tom was evil and actively practiced the Dark Arts, would not permit him to teach at Hogwarts. Moreover, Dumbledore recognized that Tom was a powerful wizard even at that age. So, it makes sense that his pushing the limits of magic was in the Dark Arts. Dumbledore would hear about the type of work Tom was doing, but probably not the details.
Dumbledore would hear that Tom was creating new and terrible spells or potions. If he heard about a few nasty ones (such as the Entrail-Expelling Curse...not invented by LV), Dumbledore would be very sorry indeed to hear of it.
62442al_Man
Nov 8 2006, 11:32 AM
You mean why does Dumbledore know that Tom is now called Voldemort? And what he has been doing? Remember that when Tom came back to hogwarts, he ahd already made a major aprt of his transformation into Lord Voldemort. He already did killings, and we know secretly (though perhaps Dumbledore doesn't at this time) that he already has a few Horcruxes made up.
Dumbledore is a powerful man with a lot of influence. The Death Eaters had probably started doing a fair bit of killing muggleborns and torturing muggles at this point. This type of stuff is bound to get to Dumbledore. Why, Fudge or who ever was minister, whether it was Milicent or Fudge at this time, might've asked Dumbledore to help get to the bottom of this. But I actually think that the word of Lord Voldemort and his Death Eaters was just now coming into circulation. It is now that the name was about to become an Unspeakable word.
DracosLady
Nov 8 2006, 02:07 PM
I think that when Tom came back to Hogwarts to see Dumbledore and was asking for the position of DADA professor, he knew that Dumbledore would not give him the postion but he was still hoping that he would so that he as his newer more powerful self (Voldemort) that he would be able to take over Hogwarts with all of his evil. If Dunbledore had given him that postion, the school no doubt would have been overrun with Death Eaters in no time. Dumbledore knew what Tom was capable of, knowing his family history, and his growing up in the orphange and his behaviors later on while schooling at Hogwarts. That is why Dumbledore flat out refused the post to Tom/Voldemort. And it was because of this that the DADA position had never been able to keep any one professor in the job for more than a year. Tom was angered by this rejection, as he has always been used to things pretty much going his way, and with this rejection, it further angered him.
the silos chronicles
Jan 6 2007, 01:22 PM
Well, we know that Dumbledore keeps himself aware of the new events that are taking place, not only in the wizarding world but also in the muggle world. I think after Tom Riddle left the service of Borgin's, he went off to not only create horcruxes but also to create new spells that could harm others badly.
For years, nobody knows where he went and when he returns he is powerful and enigmatic and known to all as the Dark Lord. Why of all things would he want a position of the DADA teacher?
Firstly,like Slughorn, he wants to influence others and amass an army of Death eaters. Secondly, could he want the Godric sword? Wouldn't that be the only Founder's item that is missing from his Magpie stack?I mean Dumbledore is the head master, but being a teacher and being always present at the school, Tom could have easily snuck in and stolen the sword.
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