In the book, Dumbledore says something to the effect of "The protection was...after all...well-designed. One alone could not have done it."

Now, keeping in mind that Dumbledore was a very, very powerful wizard and he could not do it alone, what are the chances R.A.B. could have done it alone? This leads me to conclude that, assuming R.A.B. wasn't someone very close to Voldemort who was instructed to create this trap and betrayed him(which I doubt, Voldemort wouldn't trust someone that much), than who was here helping him? If he couldn't do it alone, there had to have been someone else.

i think that Voldemort had help setting the traps in the cave, that person must have been R.A.B., and that is how he knew how and where to get the horcrux. and if R.A.B. is Regulas then he must have had Kreacher help him retrieve the locket...

i think that Voldemort had help producing each one of the horcrux's. Although he probably had a different death eater help with each one, so no one death eater would know too much about his secret doings. in one of the books he says to the death eaters something like... you know the steps i have taken, I have gone farther than anyone else to conquer death...(i know that not what he said, but it was something like that ...i cant find it in the book now...)

I dont see any logical reason why he, Lord Voldemort, would need any help securing his secret horcruxes. Had he had help, he would have been returned to his body much sooner, and his followers would have known he was still alive, and continued their search for him.

I don't think that any of his followers know about his horcruxes. DD said that he didn't believe that Voldemort would feel close enough to anyone to actually tell them, and Lucias was at one point one of his most trusted death eaters and he didn't know or he wouldn't have gotten rid of the diary. If they knew they also would have known that he hadn't died and they would have gone out and found him.

He wouldn't have needed or wanted help securing his horcruxes because he also likes to act alone. One of his death eaters may found out about the horcruxes, ie RAB, but I don't think that they helped secure them. Also, I doubt Voldemort would be quick to trust, and wouldn't trust anyone unless he was absolutely sure that they wouldn't turn against him. As for RAB, I don't think that someone could retireve it by themselves, which is why I believe that they had a house elfs assistance (Kreacher if RAB is Regulus).

nwad00, the quote is "They, who knew the steps I took, long ago, to guard myself against mortal death? They, who had seen proofs of the immensity of my power in the times when I was mightier than any wizard living?" Page 648 GoF
As for this quote, I believe that the death eaters knew pieces of what was going on, but they didn't know it to full extent. I think that they know that he did something to escape death, but not what. I don't believe that they know he created horcruxes or where they are, they probably don't know what horcruxes are (minus a few of them), but they know that he took efforts to escape death, that's why they didn't go find him, they thought his efforts had failed at the hands of DD.

Unless R.A.B had something to counter the potion, or more, the poison, like a bezoard. I won't thorize, because there's a topic for that, but, RAB could be alone too

Well, R.A.B. took the Horcrux before Voldemort lost his powers. That means it was before Sirius was shipped off to Azkeban. Could Sirius have been with him? Probobly not, just a thought, I mean, they were brothers.

Who's to say that the circumstances Harry and Dumbledore had to go through to get the horcrux was the original plan by Voldemort? After all, RAB had beaten them to it, and must have had to set a new trap. Or did the trap re-set itself? Who knows...

I don't think that Sirius helped steal the horcrux. His loyalties lie with Dumbledore and he would have told him, or someone, what he had helped his brother do. If he had assisted RAB, assuming it's Regulus (which is who I believe it is), then he would have had to have known what he was stealing and the significance of it. Nobody woud go to such lengths to steal something unless they knew how important it was except a house elf. I still believe Kreacher helped him steal it. His loyalites lied with the Black family and so if Regulus had commanded Kreacher to help him them I'm sure he would have helped no questions asked.

About the trap, it is true that the potion in the basin might not have originally been there. I wont get into it because there is another thread on it.

r.a.b. could easily have been two people. maybe Rudolfus and beletrix. maybe they did. they are both close to voldemort and could have easily found it out, well easier then some people.

are you people forgetting everything about voldemort we learned in the sixth book. He does not have friends nor does he wish for a friend so whoever this R.A.B. person or person's is they were most likely not helping voldemort with the enchantments because we have learned that voldemort works alone and would not be so carless with a horcrux that was inside an object of slytherins. In my opinion he probally valued this one beyond all the others (besides the one inside him of course) because it was slytherins locket and he probally felt very attached to it so i dont think he would trust anyone besides himself with wut i think is his most valued hrocrux.

and also has anyone stopped to think that R.A.B. might be the initials of 3 wizards. If it takes 1 great wizard and a 16 year old boy to break through the enhantments doesnt it make sense that 3 good wizards would be able to do the same. if dumbledore could not do it himself then what would make you think that this man could do it himself. i kno this theory might be a little shady because of the fact in the note they say that its was "i who found out your secret" but that might have been the last one left maybe the other two died. I dont kno i dont have much evidence to prove this second theory that were three of them.

also in the not it says to the DARK LORD which means a couple things, 1) this person or persons have had to be connected to voldemort in one way or another somehow. my guess is seeing as only death eaters call him the dark lord and i have not heard anyone else besides the death eaters call him dark lord. soo there is a good possibility that they were death eaters at one point or they were jus using that term as a mockey. i have no idea and will not know until the 7th book wich i do hope she answeres everything and does not leave ANYTHING a mystery either that or she shuld make more series of books i relle enjoyed reading these.





whoever wrote this has obviously not payed attention in any of the books and would know that both Rudolfus and Beletrix lestrange (srry about spelling) are very commited to the Lord Voldemort perhaps even obsessed with him and he knows this as well/ Although he doesnt let them get to close to him they are obviously one of his favorites becuz he can see that they worship him and theres not a doubt in my mind that they are as evil as voldemort himself. and although they are probally very good duelists and able wizards they do not have the brains or the magical power to break his enchantments and actually find out about the horcruxes

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Hmm ... I know this came up in a thread involving the 'answer', but I can't find it now. So sadly I can't cite the originator of this. Anyway, it works like this:

1) If RAB is Regulus Black (and there are many good reasons to believe it is, not least of which is the fact that we saw the locket in OOTP) ...
2) Then he most likely received assistance from someone who believed in the Dark Arts but was forced to obey him (since he was betraying Voldemort and wouldn't want his assistant to let anyone know that) ...
3) Meaning he was most likely assisted by Kreacher.

I like this argument because it sets up a nice convo between Harry and Kreacher in Book 7. Also, it makes it likely Kreacher saved the locket from being thrown out because it was something of his mistress' good son.

personally I think it was Regelus with kreacher but if Rab did have someone with him it most probably was a house elf who would have to keep a secret. mostly i think it was kreacher but who knows who it actually is yet.

I don't think so on the two names idea for one reason, the note was signed RAB. The intent of signing it would be so that the reader, Voldemort, would know who did it. If the signature was intened to be inegmatic, then why not just not leave a signature at all? Besides, common practice (in english, anyway) is to leave out minor words like "and." For example, SPEW. Society for the Preservation of Evlish Wealfare. "for", "the", and "of" are not given abbreviations (otherwise it would be SFTPOEW). Wouldn't the note have been signed "RB" if this was true? Or "R and B" or "R&B" or some variation?

-fish

well first of all i think R.A.B. is none other then Regulus Araminta Black, which is Sirius Blacks younger bother and a fromer death eater until he started to rebel against Lord Voldemort and i think he took the locket and i think the person or thing that was with him was none other then his House elf Kreacher because what every regulus says to do Kreacher has to obey him because a house elf has to what ever it is told to do by it's master and in this cause Regulus is apart of the black family so kreacher would obey him and regulas could have just said to kreacher "know matter what happens make sure this potion is done my throat until it is gone" and kreacher would obey him. and that is who R.A.B. had with him that day/night and that is you R.A.B. is and i have a very very strong feeling about this i can't wait for the 7th book to come out to see if i am right. (Regulus gets his middle name from his grandfather)

I like this hypothesis about Kreacher. I have always leaned to the idea that Regulus was RAB due to the obvious, but not so obvious clues discussed just about everywhere. I have not really thought about Kreacher as the assistant though now that I see this it makes perfect sense to me. I guess we will see.

i agree that 1 wizard alone no mater how good could have done it but you all seem to be forgetting dumbledore was not at his best. his hand was injured. it doesnt make a lot of difference but still he was weakened abit. also dumbledore basically told harrry everyththing hehad to do so you cant really class him as a 15 year old boy you have to class him as a second less experienced dumbledore. also it was definately regulas but i think that the potion wasn't there to begin with and that he put it there so if voldemort came back for it he couldn't get to the fake locket easily. and if he noticed that the liquid wasn't there when he first put the horcruxe there (as it was a long time ago) he wouldve still got rid of the liquid somehow to see who he had to kill. which he would have known the fake locket wouldve given a clue about. also if it wasnt regulas then how did the locket end up in the black house.

see this is a great idea the whole Regulus Araminta Black because R.A.B. he was a death eater and if voldemort was having a meeting with someone and R.A.B. followed him and heard about the horcruxes and heard where they are and when he started to rebel he could have took kreacher and took it and i truly believe that this is the right thing i believe JKR will write it just like how we are saying it that RAB is Regulus and i think that is how it is going to be that is true too but we are not sure that the locket they found cleaning up the black house was the locket from RAB but maybe the reason it will not open is because apart of Voldemort's soul is in there and maybe that is why it would not open

I don't think LV would want a House Elf on this type of operation. A select group of Death Eaters would've been assigned to each project.

I think Snape was in on the cave/locket Horcrux set-up during his Death Eater days. I also think he worked the distraction so RAB could make the switch.

It also wouldn’t surprise me if Severus spotted the real locket during an OotP meeting and took it with him. That sealed locket in the flat didn’t quite match the description. A Red Herring perhaps?

For Harry to find the locket means he must find Snape.

It’s just my theory, but when I think like Snape that’s what I would do. Holding a Horcrux is the start of a good plan.

On the subject of who was with RAB, assuming RAB is one person...

If it was Snape, and Snape confided in Dumbledore, would that give us a reason for Dumbledore's trust in Snape - the evidence being the Horcrux destruction?

And thus Snape can be a horrible individual... but a member of the Order.

TKL

well i personally think that it is regulus because of this one quote by JK

I beleave it was Reaguls but somthing i think no one mentied was that he had the dark mark there could have been a charm to keep the person without the dark mark to put his/her hand into the basin. it would be a reasnible explination because in the end of hbp the death eaters made a magical barrier to make so no one could come near the tower

Severus Snape I totally agree with you, it was what I was going to post. But, there's a slight problem. Voldemort doesn't have the Dark Mark on his arm.
About Snape, I don't think that is he's RAB, he stole the horcrux before Dumbledore took it, but after. You know, when Harry is coming back to the castle with Hagrid, after the Death of Dumbledore, he sees a black mass where he thought Dumbledore's body was... So, it could be there the switch being made.

I'm not sold that it was Regulas and Kreacher but if it was, Kreacher drank the potion.

How do we know when the locket was taken? Could it have been that RAB saw his chance when LV fell and took it then? It wouldn't have been Regulas but he is only a guess at this point.

The note indicates that RAB expected LV to check on the horacrux. Did he do this and how often?

Assuming RAB had the horacrux, why not destroy it at once? That was the whole purpose of getting it.

Ok Garden Toad, well, there is no doubt in my mind that is is Regulus and Kreacher so I will try and answer some of your questions:

When he took the locket? I don't think that it was at LV's downfall because then why would he say that he would probably be dead? He must have know that by betraying LV, even if LV wasn't aware that he took the Horcrux, he or his DEs would find him and murder him.

Because he knew that LV checked on his Horcruxes, or at the very least assumed that he would, he must have been a DE. I don't think that anyone else could get close enough to him to find out about all the Horcruxes, which makes Regulus perfect. Plus, Sirius said that his brother got in too deep, tried to pull out, and then was murdered. If he found out about LVs Horcruxes then I would consider that getting in too deep so he was probably afraid that with LV's amazing legilimency skills he would discover what Regulus knew and kill him. He may have tried to pull out and do something noble before he died, liked taking his knowledge of the Horcrux and stealing it.

Why he didn't destroy it, probably because he didn't know how. It took the most powerful wizard in the world to destroy one and he didn't come out unscathed. How would he even know where to start? He was probably trying in Grimmauld Place (the locket that wouldn't open) when LV found him and killed him.

Just as a side note guys, more then one wizard could not have gone. The boat was designed so that only one adult wizard could cross at a time, so whoever it was would have had to have taken someone who was underage or a creature, ie Kreacher. His power would not have been recognized by the boat because I am sure that LV would have underestimated the powers that they possess as with Harry. Two adult wizards would not have made it across the lake.

ok well i argree with all that agree with me funny how that works eh...well im going back to the topic about the darl mark and the basin well Lv mostlikely does not need to have a mark on his arm to remove one of his (can not spell the word) he could know other means to recive it. The reason for Lv not haveing a mark i think he can not stand pain he is too much of a coward to brand himsef but his blood that runs through his viens are enough to triger the mark to come out so he has the power or the charm to remove the barrier.

but i beleave that regulis found out by other means there must be someone that knows about his well u know. Lv could have another dirarey(still can not spell) or he could have used Legimis while Lv was asleep and found out or Lv has a pensive and Reguls could have got into it there are many differnt things that could have happend

The boat did take two wizards over, one of whom was DD. It doesn't depend on weight but magical power. Add Harry and DD, devide by two and you get two average wizards.

There are plenty of things LV asks the DEs to do that Regulus might object to. It doesn't have to be the horacrux.

If RAB knew or suspected there were more horacrux, he would expect LV to come back sooner or later and kill him. I doubt LV trusted anyone enough that they could know the number and locations of all the horacrux. If he does check on them, Harry had best hurry before he finds the ring is gone and creates an other horacrux.

DD wore the ring after his hand was hurt. He received the damage in getting the ring not destroying it. RAB got the locket so I think he could destroy it.

If LV didn't know he took the locket how would he know he betrayed him. Perhaps he was old and expected to die soon, before LV could come back.

The biggest mystery to me is how anyone could find the locket. How did they know where to look? I doubt LV had any help with his horacrux or their protection.

I have one issue with Regulus being RAB. I don't think that voldemort would have ever enlightened any of his death eaters about his horcruxes. I don't think that any of them knew that voldemort even owned that locket. I think RAB might be one of the founders of Borgin&Burkes, because they would have been able to conclude that Tom stole the locket from Hepzibah. (it would have to be Borgin, because Burke's first name is Caractacus)

Oh bah.. Regulus Aurctruc[w/e] Black.. I don't think he's THE R.A.B. as a matter of fact I'm fairly certain the only reason Sirius HAS a brother named Regulus is that JKR wanted to make us all think it was him... I don't think the person will be introduced 'til 7.

I dont think that LV told anyone that he had maked horcruxes, bacause he didnt trust anyone. I think the RAB is a person we havent got to know through the books yet. It has to be a very clever person, perhaps on the same magical level as DD. I realy doubt that it is Regulus, he just dont seams like the right kind of person to do it. And i dont think its a death eater, because they are all afraid of LV because they know how evil he is, and the ones on "the good side" is those who have courage enough to do it. NOT a deatheater.

Maybe it just was not one person, maybe it was three because it was initiled R.A.B most initiles are like R A B no dots, beacuse like DD said not one person could have gotten to the thingy. I don't know just a thought

Sorry to interrupt any of your topics but some people in my school have been suggesting Arabella Figg to be with Regulus Black.I know this guess seems foolish but they came upon the theory that the boat,it can only carry one person depending upon the fact that how much magic ability they have.In the case of Dumbledore and Harry,Harry was an under aged wizard.LV would have not thought that a 16 year old boy would come to that place.DD,he is the greatest wizard of all times.So Regulus must have brought Arabella with him since she is a Squib.Regulus.Arabella.Black.I know this is a stupid theory.Or else,Regulus must have brought with him a Muggle..

Very doubtfull very, She would not be able to even make the journy let alone with a evil villin even if she was put under the imperius curse I just don't see it being resonanable no evil villin would even think of using a squib rember Vody hated all none magical ppl and anyone who stood aginst him so just dont see it happining sorry

i can see it going many ways.

-Regulus was a death eater and in the note he addressed LV as Dark Lord. Which only death eaters do as HP kindly pointed out when Snape talked of LV as the Dark Lord
-Regulus was killed because he was tryin to come back to the "good side". He may of known that he was going to die because of one reason or another and decided to do one thing to make him feel at peace or something before he died.
-We dont know how he died exactly, it was only said that he was killed after tryin to pull out and was speculated that a DE did it because he wasnt very important. Therefore he may of died tryin to destroy the Horcux.
-With the ring, it was guarded by a curse for whoever touched it but whos to say every horcrux is cursed in a similiar fashion. the obstacles in the cave may be the only defense of that particular horcrux and may not have a curse on it at all.
-It may not be Regulus because if i remember right Sirius considered him as not very bright, so something of this magnitude would be way out of his ability.
-I personally believe that it is not Regulus, that, as someone has already said, JKR placed him in the plot to mislead readers, so that the twist is bigger when we do find out who it is.
-As to who was with RAB im sure that well just have to see when #7 comes out.

As I have stated in the past I beleave that you have to have a Dark MarK to get into the pensive the only reason LV could get into the pensive is cuz he is a very powerfull wizard He could know the curse to lift the feild.

first off, it wasnt a pensieve that the horcrux was in, it was just a large bowl full of some sort of potion. and i doubt that LV would make it to where anyone but him would be able to just reach in. why would he have it to where someone with the dark mark would be able to reach in? there would be no reason because he didnt even entrust anyone with the knowledge of the horcruxes. No, i think that if he even made it possible for anyone to simply get past the defense of the potion then he would of made it a secret that only he would know.

Good idea but rember DD did get through so how is that making only somthing that LV made so only he could get to

well look Lord Voldemort is very powerful soo i don't think he needed anything from anyone because he was independent (dumbledore said so) and well he must've made the potion and known something dumbledore didn't, and as for RAB i think that the person well not person but house elf is Kreacher because the boat is considered in magic so Kreacher is not very good with magic the only thing he can do is apparate so anywho i think that why Kreacher is kind of cucu because Regulus made him drink the potion

well at least that's my theory

no what i meant was LV wouldnt of made it to where anyone but him could JUST REACH IN. as in only Lv would be able to reach in, if anyone at all. anyone else would have to drink the potion.

well, i srsly dunno, who this R.A.B character is. Some say its' regulas black, others say it's a new character that knows of harrys' past. I dunno, but the closest guess is regulas, the theories are logical & prove affirmative to him, so i think R.A.B might be regulas, but who knows, we'll just have to wait and see.

That's a good point ... R/A/B couldn't have done it alone.

Just guessing here ... maybe R/A/B isn't one person ... but three people, whose names begin with R.A.B? Just a guess, but then think about it ... *he* wouldn't be alone, would he?

I dunno ... probably not likely, but hey. I like to be different and lots of people think it's regulus (sp?) black, so here's me-being different.

Ive said this to many of my friends and ill say it again. Regulas was not trying to come back to the good side he was trying to get away from Voldemort because he was scared. And Sirius said that he was just a petty thief and was trying to find protection from the law with Voldemort (sorry if i added something the trying to find book as im typing!!!) and that he wasnt to bright. It took Dumbledor nearly all his wit and magic to get in there and get the fake locket. So i dont believe that Regulas was R.A.B.

I'm pretty convinced that Regulus is R.A.B. If I'm not mistaken, JKR has more or less confirmed it and it does make sense. If my theory is correct, he made Kreacher join him, because;
1. House-elves are obliged to obey their masters, and Kreacher being the Black family's house-elf, he would have no choice but to obey Regulus.
2. Kreacher would not be registered by the boat, as he's not a wizard and house-elves' magical powers are usually highly underestimated.

Regulus made Kreacher drink the potion, or had Kreacher force him to drink it. This way (assuming Regulus drank it himself), Kreacher would easily be able to Apparate back to Grimmauld Place with the stolen Horcrux, and that would explain the locket they found at GP but weren't able to open (in OotP). It would also explain what he writes in his letter to the Dark Lord; "I know I will be dead long before you read this", meaning that he knew what kind of potion it was in the basin, and what kind of effect it would have on him.

ok i agree with you I think R.A.B. is Regulus and i think he would have force kreacher to drink the potion because of the side effects and didn't know if kreacher would be able to get him out of there so he would force kreacher to drink the potion if it killed him he wouldn't care and if it just made him crazy he could still force him to finish off and Jo did say the she wasn't going to introduce any significant characters in the next book and i think R.A.B would be a significant character don't you

As you can see I've stated almost the same thing before, It was not just one person I beleave it was Regilus/Avery/Bletrax for the reason of them trying to get rid of it is behond me maybe they thought they could gain more control over the Death Eaters maybe they wanted Lv dead idk but thats my therory

That's not a bad theory, but how could three people get in the boat at the same time? And didn't DD say something about the boat only being able to carry one full-grown wizard at a time, and the only reason it didn't register Harry was that he was underage? (I'm at school now, and I don't have the book with me) Of course, they could have crossed the lake one at a time, but I don't see the point of that. Besides, the letter refers to one person, so I stick with my theory. And to answer your question, Luv_n_Hermione; yes, I'm pretty sure R.A.B will be a very significant character.

No i dnt thnk voldemort ha any help watsoever. we all found out how much voldy likes to work alone, i dnt c y he wl change everythin jst 4 that, and in any case that would mean that when he 'vanished' after attempting to kill harry, y would ppl such as lucius malfoy think that he was alive and return pleading to the ministry etc. if they or anyone else knew about the horcruzes. but thats a good point u picked up their about RAB, and im pretty sure he was with someone atthe time, but i dont kno, it doesnt really seem likely,i mean DDD said the boat would only carry one person, not y weight but by magic so he would have to be alone.. unless they wer 2 stupid guys that the boat thought was one person? but then how would they kno anything about horcruxes if they wer stupid? i dnt kno, but i mean with JKs writing u can never really tell, even the smallest thing like that could be everything.

But rember it has to do with the amount of magiacal power not by there brain size, Magical power is induced by there control over there bodies not age or smartness, most of the death eaters were really dumb but they had great magical abilitys 1. they knew how to get angry and use magic bad 2. they just croupted easy.


so there is a possiblity that all 3 went at the same time, the boat registerd as a very powerfull wizard/witch.

if reguals had brought some one with him it was most likely Kretcher..the boat was made to sence only full wizards so it wood not realise kratcher was there just like it didnt harry.and reguals could have made kretcher feed him the potion and he wood not be able to dissobay him...this is also the most likely theroy as kretcher could have taken the locket back to the head quaters after rab died and he probley stole it back from the trio when they threw it out when cleaning or else dug stole it and sold it on to some one.

but i beleive the trio will have to find kretcher or dug to get the locket in book 7

My thoughts exactly, ( Half-Blood-Prince). Or someone will have to find him for them. As he is Kreacher's master now, I don't think it would be a problem for Harry to find him, and Kreacher is forced to obey him no matter what. Dung (if that's who you meant), could be a little harder to find, as he usually goes wherever he wants, regardless of where he's supposed to be. Or they could just go to Grimmauld Place (assuming the locket is still there).

I don't think he would have used Krecher, for one thing he is a death eater they are kinda like the KKK they hate everyone an everything but they would work together but i don't see him using krecher just does not make any sense