ok ok ... so i was reading HBP for the like 40millionth time last night, and the same thing worried me as it has everytime i have read the book ... why did dumbledore give snape the DADA position?

this is not evidence for snape being good, just wether dumbledore left clues for harry!!!

did dumbledore give snape this position because he had foreseen his own death. he could have forseen his death after snape had possibly told him about the unbreakable vow he had made. knowing this, dumbledore could have given the DADA position to snape to secretly show harry that he still trusts snape, and that he should not go against him... ever!

anyways guys ... be easy ... its a rareity that i do these incase i get crushed !!! im only little, but would love to hear what you think !!!

I dont think Snape could have told Dumbledoe as he made the vow not to tell anyone...

IMO, Snape was given the position becuase Slughorn was better at potions than him...

could have written it down good thinking actually ... sorry ... just a thought ...

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By making the vow, Snape promised three things:
1. To watch over Draco as he tries to kill Dumbledore
2. Protect Draco from harm
3. Finish the task if Draco should fail
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't believe that there was anything said about not being able to tell anyone about the vow. Or is that implied?

As for your theory, mad_eye, it obviously makes sence. Of course, Dumbledore gave the DADA position to Snape because he trusted him. However, I don't think he made this decision, specifically thinking "If I make Severus a DADA professor, Harry will see that I trust Snape and he should to." He already emphasized quite a few times that he has a good reason to believe in a former death eater. So no, I don't think that was why he gave Snape the post of the DADA teacher.

oh i dont think that anyone is better at potions than snape, its just that snape was better at dada, and slughorn was a good potion maker, so it was the lesser of two evils, either give snape the potions and have slughorn screw up dada, or give slughorn potions, and have snape do the dada.

yeah ... just thinking about the actual potions book that harry gets ... snape IS the half blood prince! okay ... dumbledore wouldnt have knew this, but i bet snapes talent showed to him. i just dont know, theres got to be something behind it, like did dumbledore leave harry any hidden clues or tips or messages? i dont know !*crys*

I believe that Snape is not evil, well, 2% evil, but that is only shown towards Harry. I agree, i've thought that over as well, when I re-read the part of Dumbledore's death, it made sence. Dumbledore and Snape were fighing, weren't they? And were overheard by Hagrid, who confessed to Harry. I think they were fighting because Snape did not want to kill Dumbledore, you can tell he would kill him self before he killed the most powerfull wizard. If Hagrid had been more specific, Harry would know Snape was not that much Evil. If Hagrids loyalty for Dumbledore had just slightly dropped, and he was keen to eavesdrop on Dumbledore and Snape, like anyone would. Anyways, Snape gave up, he probably was told to assist Harry while they looked for Horcruxes. And anyways, Dumbledore knew that he would still be able to talk and help Harry, through the portrait in his office, maybe Harry can steel it xD.

I am sure that since Dumbledore knew the jo was cursed, he knew what he was doing when he gave Snape the job. This leads into another big theory and all, but i think Dumbledore gave Snape the job so he knew that Snape would be gone at the end of year. I thionk Snape told Dumbledore of the unreakable vow he made to narcissa, and Dumbledore had the whole thing planned out when he died. I think he gave Snape the job to ensure that things would work out the right way that night, and that Snape would kill him.

OMG PPL SNPES EVIL! I DONT KNOW WHY WE WANT HIM TO COME BACK! HE KILLED DEAR DD!

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Danielle: DD put snape in DADA position to show harry HE still trusts him? Snape is evil, betraying, kniving, scheeming @#$%^ *&@! $%#& of #!^% who should hve %^&! $#@! up his ^%$* ! *cough* Who killed DD! (yes i am a firm believer that snape is evil)

*cough* anyways...
If DD knew the job was cursed then maybe he was subtly trying to get rid of snape or maybe he hoped that if LV knew that his "spy" would get shoved out of Hogwarts within the year he would relinquish the curse?

Lizz:

This would be a bit of a vague hint, when he could have just come right out and said, "Harry, whatever happens this year, remember that Professor Snape can be trusted". It's a bit too abstract, I think.

I do know what you mean, though, about how come he suddenly got the DADA job?

Maybe DD just had enough of Snape nagging him, or couldn't think of anyone else for the position (The list of candidates has to be narrowed way down by now?).

Well, thats just it isn't it? Dd has been saying that Snape could be trusted even when Harry found out that Snape was the one listening at the door during trelawny's interview. If Dd left a clue, it's that.

I think that snape turned after he was given the new postion because he had already given the unbreakable vow, which if he broke he would die. I think snape felt that he was being tossed aside by dumbledore, and like how he would have to stand back in a corner when his parents fought, he felt like he didnt have any control in the like he had at hogwarts when he really could have ruined everything. on the other hand he could have been wonderful for the OoP. We just have to see how it plays out in book 7.

Note that Dumbledore knew that the DADA position was cursed; by giving Snape the spot, he was letting him know that his days were numbered. Dumbledore also wanted Harry to learn from Snape- he set Occlumency lessons with the pair. It's possible that he realized that it was more dangerous for Snape to be around with You-Know-Who back, and decided to get rid of him in a way that would either expose Snape as a Death Eater, kill him, or otherwise eliminate him from Hogwarts.

Snape was given the job because no one else would fill the position and the last thing DD wanted was another ministry appointed lacky like Delores. The signing of Slughorn just made it possible to move the Potions Master. As for clues, the focus on non verbal spells, which Snape was teaching to the very end with Harry, will be very important. They were used through out HBP up until the end. Even the cutting spell from the potions book included the instruction non verbal. The other clue is that DD went to Snape with very difficult issues, he did not seem to trust the other members of the order like he did Snape which would lead me to beleive the DD did have an iron clad bond with him. Slughorn was another clue that DD left for Harry, that there is other ways to get the answers you need, a little tact can go along way, including getting the memory that DD had failed to.
I posted in another thread and it did not get any reply:
Slughorn: Potion Master, Head of Slythrine, Ex- Gridelwald Supporter = DD man
Snape: Potion Master, Head of Slythrine, Ex- LV supporter = DD man

dd didnt no about the vow otherwise snape would be dead

Hi p[eo]p[le],

i fink percy will have a big part, and will turn pure evil, as he wants power, as did tom riddle before he turned to he hu[who] must not be named, also dd is defo[definitely] dead, as the spell on harry stopped suddenly as the phonix cries for him. i dont fink hogwarts will be a big part in the book, as harry wont be going back, but we may hear refernces to it during the book, harry cant be a horcrux as voldemort has tried to kill him several times. Perhaps ron dies saving herms from bellatrix?

[thanks],

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Okay Dumbledore for the last 5 years has been keeping Snape away from the DADA job.

Could it be that after Snape has told him about the Unbreakable Vow and knowing what is ahead not just his death, but that Snape would be the one that would have to ultimately kill him.

Dumbledore decided that Snape has proven without any doubt that he is now undoubtabley on Dumbledores side and that Dumbledore is 100% positive the DADA class would no longer tempt him back to the dark side.

just to point a few things out that seem to be being missed. 1. sluggy was the potions master way back when so thats the ideal place to put him, since snapes wanted dada so bad he could taaste it, 2. harry wants to be an auror he has to have newt level potions to do so, if snape was teaching there was no way he or ron would be in the class, but with slughorn he could. 3. DD wanted harry to be in contact with slughorn alot in order to ask him about the horcruxes. plus harry is to great a prize for sluggy to give up on seeing as how he loooves to hang around with people of importance, and point it out to everyone he meets. it was basicaly putting everyone where they were most accessable and useful for the future, and for what DD needed.

I think Snape was given the DADA job because Dumbledore wanted Slughorn to get his real memory back. Because Dumbledore knew and had the falsified memory of Slughorn. Remember, when they're walking in the street, Dumbledore talks to him about pineapple stuff and in the memory, Riddle gives Slughorn pineapple stuff (don't know the exact word, but, Dumbledore knew)

Moreover, I don't think Dumbledore knew about the vow. At the tower's scene, it seems obvious DD didn't knew.

I think that Snape is good, so the plot falls into place quite well if we assume Snape told Dumbledore about his Unbreakable Vow. Dumbledore knew what needed to be done in the last year of his life. He put Snape in DADA job knowing that he would have to leave the school anyway after killing him. He brought Slughorn to the school in order to get the memory (although I do not think it was NECESSARY, very helpful, but not necessary).

Is this a clue for Harry? Maybe. Either way, Harry is not smart enough to figure it out if it is. He would need more proof than maybes. A letter would not suffice, as magic could falsify one. I think only a memory or a revelation by the portrait would convince Harry of Snape's goodness (barring some action by Snape).

alot of people think that DD planned his death with snape. But i think logiacally maybe Sulghorn didn't want DADA? its possible. He always was a potions master and maybe because we all know that DD trusts Snape that he thought "Ill give Snape DADA, hes always wanted it and i guess then Slughorn will be on the team" well not exactly that but something like that!

well i think that dumbledore left clues for him. well ya know how the pictures talk and you can have conversations with them maybe dumbledore left clues behind the picture of him in the headmasters/headmistress headquarters. maybe dumbledore and/or sirius or any one who was part of the order of the clues phoenix harry at 12 grimauld place and they will help him kill dumbledore
well tell me ok
-BMW

hey, ok this is in response to an earlier post, but here goes.

snape is GOOD. i hate that f***** but when we look back on the facts, you can see why DD trusted him. it ALL has to do with the prophecy. no ones mentioned anything about it, but we were told that snape only heard the first half of the prophecy correct? and that he was aprehended and thrown out by the bartender half way through [thats what dubledore said]. but when harry finds out from trealawny, she says that snape had been eavsdroping, and was thrown out after she "dozed" [made the prophecy] part way throghher interveiw. but if he had been thrown outhalf way through trealawny wouldn't haev know he'd been there [ like when she iddnt know what happen in PoA when she made the prophecy about wormtail], WHICH would mean that he HAD heard the ENTITRE prophecy. which then makes us question, why didnt he tell the entire thing to voldemort? BECAUSE HE PROMISED DUMBLEDORE!! which is why dumbledore trustes him so much. snape told the first bit to voldemort out of loyalty, and probably beucase he could conceal that much from him at the time even if he is a great occlumens [he could have developed the skill over the time voldy was gone] but kept the more important bit hidden, allowing his "master" to make the mistake of going after whoever it was and killing the kid who was more likely a threat to himself. so this would conclude that even though harry thinks, and told everyone at the end of HBP that DD trusted snape becase he said that he was sorry lily and james were dead, it was actually because he had kept the second part of the prophecy a secret, hence allowing the downfall of voldemort to happen.

good idea? i think it is, and i would really like to hear any other views there are

well yeah, there is pretty much indication that snape is good but this is not the thread for it, so i wont discuss about it. But as for the thread title that Dumbledore left clues for Harry, I definitely agree with this. He left loads of clues for Harry to follow. Just like in Book 2 he said that "He would be truly gone from the school when no one would be loyal to him and help would always be given to those who ask for it." So in Book 6 I suppose he knows that he has to sacrifice himself in order to let the course of action continue.

I also agree with the theory that he gives the DADA position to Snape to show his trust in him and maybe also because he had no other choice to get to Horace Slughorn and his memory of Horcruxes with Voldemort or (then) Tom Riddle. So in those terms he may be showing Harry that somethings have to go in order to gain bigger things. He could let Snape slip that much he could lose for the actual memory from Slughorn.

This is just a thought, but maybe Snape had made an Unbreakable Vow with Dumbledore? And that's why Dumbledore trusts him so. Maybe the vow forced Snape to be good and whether Snape wants to or not he can't return to the Dark Side and this could be the reaosn why Dumbledore is not worried about Snape. This Vow would also allow Snape to kill Dumbledore without truly turning evil because it was what Dumbledore told him to do and it is against Snape's own will. (This is a theory, there is no supporting evidence, just a thought.)

i like that idea [ snape making a unbreakable vow with DD] but i dont really think the reason for it is what your saying i'm convinced that if he did make on, it would be to keep his most zipped about the prophecy, which i am also convinced he heard all of. but if he did make an unbreakable vow [is that what it's called? unspeakable vow doesn't sound right] who was their bonder, the person who's wand they used? it can't have been minerva, otherwise she would haev corrected harry and the others when he said that the only reason DD trusted snape was because he said sorry abouthis parents dying. who else would DD trust with something likethat, it's not like he advertised to anyone that he heard the prophecy...

Maybe Aberforth Dumbledore, Albus's brother, who most people think will play an important role in book 7. Also, most people reckon Aberforth is the bartender and the Hoggs Head, so it could fit, Snape overheard the prophecy, Dumbledore didn't want Snape to leave without knowing that the Prophecy wouldn't be repeated, Dumbledore and Snape made the Unbreakable Vow with Aberforth as their bonder...good thought?

Well....... i believe that if Dd gave the job to severus was only beacuse he really trusted him..... i don't think it is a clue for anyone..... i'm in the band SEVERUS IS GOOD

Things I would like to clear up. One, there is NO possible way that Slughorn was better at Potions than Snape. The old potions book of the 'Half-Blood Prince' should clear up that mis-nomer. Two the reason that Slughorn was given the position of Potions Professor, is because Dumbledore needed Slughorn at Hogwarts. Voldemort was back, and Dumbledore knew that Voldy would be hunting Slughorn for his "considerable talents", and wanted to protect his old friend. So he gave him the position of Potions master, the job he had before, plus, I don't think that Slughorn knew that much about DADA. I also think that Dumbledore gave Snape the job for three reasons. One, because he was already resigned to give the Potions position to Slughorn. Two, because Snape knew DADA, with him being a 'former' Death Eater, and all(remember that Moody was probably the best DADA teacher that Harry's had, and he was a Death Eater), and three, the curse gave Snape an exit to return to Voldemort, and be more than welcome back into the fold. Dumbledore was an extremely intellegent individual, and I think that he was aware of the Vow, he was aware of the danger that Snape was in, and he was aware that he was to soon die. So, he did exactly what he had to do in order to put in place everything he could before his death so that Everyone else could have a chance in defeating Voldemort when the time came. Just my opinion.

could this be a clue? remember in the first book, how harry looked in the mirror to see his mom, and dad? dumbledore had said that it shows what the person who is looking into wants the most. is it possible that harry is now desperate to find the horcrux so the mirror may show him where they are? it will show anything in his deepest desire, right. that means that he may look in the mirror and find where the horcruxes are right. just wondering.

Its a good theory but its not much of a clue and DD would have known that harry and everyone else thats good in the magical world would not trust snape after he killed DD you have to remember DD is one of the most loved people in the magical world, just look at all the people that were there for his funeral.

Agreed, not much of a clue but I think DD just gave it to him because they were sick of looking for DADA teachers and he might aswell because it was going to be his last year anyways. But I dont know.

I honestly think Snape would not of told Dumbledore about the vow. As we now know, Snape is a double agent. So if Snape was always working for Voldemort, why would he tell Dumbledore, hey, im gonna protect Draco and murder you.

People honestly dont do that

I dont think would go triple agent in the 6th book

IMO

I don't really know of any obvious clues that DD has left for Harry, except that he wants Harry to continue on to find the remaining Horcruxes that the two of them began searching for together before DD was killed by Snape.
Snape was given the DADA position because DD was running out of options to put someone in that position, or maybe noone else wanted the job (except Snape) look at all the bad luck that has befallen that postion in the last 5 years (thanks to Voldy, who was rejected for that position by DD), the 1st DADA teacher was killed (Quirrell) the 2nd was driven looney (Lockhart, with no memory), the 3rd was a werewolf and was forced to resign (Lupin) and the fourth was stuck in a trunk for 9 months while someone impersonated him(Madeye) and the fifth was just a horrible choice cause she tried to take over Hogwarts (Umbridge). So I think that DD gave it to Snape cause Snape wanted it so badly and noone else did.

i think that dd told snape to kill him if he had to, beacuse he may have known snape will be of more use in the end than if dd was there?!?!?!?!

but no one can really know what going to happen untill we read the nxt book, cnt wait 4 it

At first I thought is was just because Slughorn was better at Potions but know I think that maybe it was to prove for once and for all that Dumbledore truly trusted Snape. Although Dumbledore would've relised that once Snape killed Dumbledore, naturally Harry wouldn't trust him at all.

Well, it was a stupid idea to tell DD about the vow he made ,assuming he did tell DD. It was a huge mistake on his part i think.

I also think that the only reason the Snape got the DADA position, was because, while he is a potions "master", Slughorn was better than him at it, by far.

i totally agree that slughorn was prolly better at potions then snape or maybe dd had foreseen harry getting snapes book and using it ..hey we never knwo ??
seachell

ooor, since harry really wanted to be an Auror, and he coulnt if he didnt get an Outstanding in potions, dumbledore made Slughorn the potions dude and now Harry can be an Auror. yay *claps hands*

I agree with the premise that Dumbledore knew perfectly well that he was dooming Snape to leave Hogwarts, because he knew that Voldemort had cursed the DADA position. I believe that Snape had to commit to the dark side the moment he made the unbreakable vow. Obviously someone was going to die - either Snape would kill Dumbledore when Draco failed, or Draco would succeed, and Snape wouldn't have to, or both Snape and Draco end up failing, and Dumbledore lives, meaning that one of them (probably Snape) would have died in the process. Snape was left with no choice but to take care of Dumbledore to save his own skin, and then go off to Voldemort and prove to any death eaters who still had doubts that he was a full-fledged Death Eater....

That leaves one possible problem for Snape, though. I still believe that Draco is in danger from Voldemort, because Voldemort will know that Draco didn't have the intestinal fortitude to do the job, and if Voldemort takes out his frustrations on Draco, Snape will still be bound by the unbreakable vow to protect Draco (recall there were three separate components to his vow).

OK, I've read most of the posts here and just want to comment on a few things...

This is the way I see it all unfolding:

• Snape makes the unbreakable vow with Narcissa... I saw nothing about keeping it a secret, just protecting Draco and helping him in any way that he can, and, if it looks like he'll fail, complete the task and kill DD.
• Snape tells DD about the vow.
• DD gives Snape what he's always wanted, the DADA position. DD knows the position is cursed, so he's never put Snape in it before because he wants him around. Now,however, he can, because no matter what happens Snape is gone the next year. If he doesn't fulfill the vow, he's dead. If he does fulfill the vow, he's gone as well, whether getting away with Draco, or in Azkaban.
• Slughorn becomes the Potions Master.

For those who say that Snape is a better Potions Master than Slughorn, remember this... Slughorn was Lily and Snapes' teacher. He gushes about Lily's abilities, but says nothing of Snapes'. Here's my point... why would a gifted student need to scribble notes in the margins of his books? He'd just understand what was going on and have no need for little reminders. I believe that Snape scribbled those notes, because he was being tutored by Lily, the best student in the class. She taught him little tricks that would get him through the class and help him to pass.

Snape's forte is DADA, or rather the Dark Arts themselves. DD could not allow Snape to have the position of DADA teacher, because he knew it was cursed, not because he didn't trust him being around dark things... THAT'S THE HINT!

Interesting thought. I think it is possible that Dumbledore was trying to leave a hint for Harry. I also agree though that he could have just told Harry. But it could have been a hint. That still wouldn't explain why Dumbledore put Snape in the job knowing it was jinxed if he trusted Snape. I think that if Snape really is on Dumbledore's side, he would have told Dumbledore about the vow and that could explain why Dumbledore gave him the job: he knew he would have to leave either way. If he did not tell Dumbledore, I think he really is on the Dark Lord's side, and I don't know why Dumbledore would give someone who he thought was on his side a cursed job without reason. It could have been a hint to Harry, but it just doesn't make sense that he would leave a hint to Harry by giving someone he trusted a cursed job.

I think Snape was just as good as (if not better than) Slughorn at potions. Snape was a brilliant potions student. Slughorn actually did compliment Snape's abilities at the party in HBP. He said something like "I don't think I've ever seen a more tallented potions student. Not even you, Severus." I don't have the exact quote, and although he is saying Harry is better, he is complimenting Snape at the same time. Also, a lot of really smart people make notes in the margins of books. I don't think the fact that Snape makes notes at all says that he is not a gifted student. HIs notes show that he was even better than the person who wrote the book, and as he made his discoveries with stuff like that, he wrote them in the book. You can't expect him to remember all of that, can you?

This is a very interesting topic. It brings up many questions. Good thoughts!

I can,t believe that no one is seeing why Snape was given his dream job, the DADA teacher. Snape told Dumbledore that the only way he would do everything that he was asking (actually following through with the unbreakable vow and eventually killing Dumbledore, going back to Voldemort and pretending to be on his side all while waiting for the day he might be killed for helping Harry or killed by Harry himself, and having the whole world hate him and thinking he is a murderer) unless he got some small reward. So he got it and thus, Dumbledore got what he wanted............"Severus, Please." ............... Avarda Kedavra!

I think Snape was appointed to the DADA position firstly so Harry could take Potions at the NEWT level and secondly because he wanted Slughorn in Hogwarts to protect him from Voldemort. Once he brought Slughorn back to Hogwarts, there was only one place really to put him: his old post of Potions master. So Snape, who perhaps by now had convinced Dumbledore of his dedication to the good side, would need to be moved to the only other vacancy: Defense Against the Dark Arts.

I don't think, however, that DD only put him in it because he was going to be gone by the end of the year anyway (ala samsmom) because it doesn't explain, for example, why he would hire Lupin or Moody.

i think that snape was never appointed the position was because

1) Dumbledore knew about the curse that was on the position and didnt want something bad to happen to snape, or

2) Dumbledore didnt want to give it to snape in case snape like, relapsed i guess back into being evil.

perhaps, dumbledore gave snape the job since he heard about the unbreakable vow.

he probably knew that it would lead to someone's death, but probably wasn't angry at snape for performing it. what if dumbledore was using snape as a double agent into voldemorts plans? much like many believed that snape was an agent for voldemort. this would explain why dumbledore might have asked snape to kill him - to strengthen snapes "loyalty" to voldemort, as he probably knew that many death eaters were becoming suspicious.

however, dumbledore can't see the future. he still didnt know who would die as a result of the vow: a bystander? himself? draco? or maybe even snape, who would die if he coudlnt fulfill his promise. so, maybe dumbledore sacrificed himself to save someone elses life, possibly snape's, who we can already assume is very important to the story.

Hey everyone!

Forgive me if this is already discussed elsewhere. I searched but it didn't really stand out to me if it was in the results.

Here is what I was thinking:

At the end of GoF Dumbledore says something to Snape like, "You know what you have to do." That appears to me as though he must head towards the dark side and gain favor with Voldemort. If he did gain favor it would be a part of the master plan I am sure Dumbledore had in place. With Voldemort believing that Snape was still loyal and in the school, he would feel like he had a better contact. Then, after a while, Snape and Dumbledore talk it over for a while and decide that Snape should have the DADA job for a very good reason. That reason is that Dumbledore will soon be gone from the scene and the school will need to be protected. There would be no room for teaching positions to be cursed at Hogwarts without someone like Dumbledore to bear the brunt of the force associated with the foul-ups in the DADA department.

So, Dumbledore gives the job to Snape. Snape tells Voldemort that he has been given the job. Voldemort lifts the curse so as not to affect Snape. The curse is gone and out of Voldemort's mind. When a student at Hogwarts goes to teach, they would land at the DADA position. What better person than Harry to take that position head on?

I know that could be way off base but who knows? What are your thoughts everyone?

Binary Man

i think dumbledore just learnt to trust snape properly and thats why he trusted snape with the dada job, but the job is supposedly cursed, so maybe he give snape the job because he didnt trust snape anymore and wanted to see what would happen to him if he broke the curse