OK, if there's already something going around like this, I'm sorry, but I was writting a post, this idea came to me, and I hadn't seen anything like it, so I though I would post it and see what happens.
If the sixth novel, Dumbledore hires Slughorn, who taught Tom Riddle at Hogwarts, and allows Snape to have the Defense Against the Dark Arts post which he has desired for 16 years. It got me wondering. How did Dumbledore know that he would later need the two of them in those positions? I know that question doesn't make a lot of sense, but hold with me. He begins giving Harry these private lessons about the Dark Lord's past, it just seems like he knew something was going to happen, it really does. It got me thinking, what did Dumbledore learn about the Dark Lord's intentions, how, and when? I know that Dumbledore was a really smart man and all, but something must have happened, he must have seen something, or heard something that keyed him into the Dark Lord's plots. Snape gets the post he's always wanted, then kills Dumbledore and runs away to the Dark Lord, yet Dumbledore didn't seem all that shocked. I think that Dumbledore knew that, maybe, he was going to die, or that something was going to happen, or that there were all these plots going on, I just think that everything he did for Harry, he was preparing him at the exact moment he needed to be prepared. I was just wondering, that's all, if he knew, or if he deducted this knowlege from something, and if he did, then what did he see that many of us did not?

~La MaitressedeMort

Him teaching harry about voldemorts past has nothing to do with his new appointances of Snape and Slughorn, he wanted harry to know voldemort's weaknesses before he faked/planned his death.

He wanted Slughorn at hogwarts so that harry could get the horcrux memory from him.
He wanted Snape in his position so that the DADA position was filled and the potions position was open.

I guess what I'm trying to say here, was all of that stuff just coincidence, or was did Dumbledore know something that prompted him into such actions that, in the end, proved to be basically vital? Things happened that Dumbledore had no control over, but every action he made, it just seems like he had more knowlege of what was going to happen in that year. I dunno, I may be wrong here, it just seems like his timing was right for everything, almost too perfect. His only mistake, once again, was the trusting people thing, though then there's the whole debate about whether he ordered Snape to kill him or not, though I'm kinda not happy go lucky about that theory, but it still brings up the question of whether or not Dumbledore knew he was going to die or not. Still, it just may be coincidence. I think Dumbledore had a plan, a really great plan, and that it all played out really well in this novel, but, I guess what I'm trying to say is, what was this plan, and what did he know about what was going to happen that year?

~La MaitressedeMort

You have to renember that Snape was working for DD. Snape knew of LV plan to use Draco to kill LV, and its very likey snape told DD this and that he(snape) also made an unbreakable vow to help him. I think DD was smart enough to see what could happen and wanted to make sure that if he was killed than Harry would be able to have a better chance against LV. ALso you have to renember that DD was a really smart wizard and as such he would know that no one lives forever, especially in such a time of perrill

i think that dumbledore had almost unlimited resources(almost). but it is very likely that yall are correct in saying that dumbledore knew that his death was coming, so he told harry all he knew (in theory, all he knew). and he was always saying that he is only human. sorry im goin off topic, but we really could have predicted his death because of him always saying that. i notice d that after reading half blood prince. but anyway, the theory about snape telling dumbledore about the unbreakable vow might work. ya know, what stinks is that we may never know.

DD KNOWS EVERYTHING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
He knew he was going to die, he knew Snape was going to kill him , and he all ways knows when Harry is lieing and telling the truth. This is probably due to his very powerful Oclumency and I also believe he is more of a "seer" than Sybil and Frenzy put together. He also owns a pensive which probably helps him peace things together.

I guess this discussion reminds me of the amazement kids show when I figure out in a flash what they are up to, and what they are about to do. DD is a wise character, and is rather far-sighted. That far-sightedness may not be perfect, but it's darned good. I think he just possessed a wisdom born of great intelligence and a good long life.

I think that it was all planned. DD had to know that he was going to die, so he made it so he would be killed by Snape. The reason I think this is possible is that every teacher since TR came back and asked DD for the DADA job hasn't lasted more than 1 year. DD even told Harry that it was a curse or something left by LV. Why then I ask would DD hire Snape as the DADA teacher if he didn't already now that Snape would not be returning to Hogwarts.
I think that DD new what had to be done to end the reign of LV. I think in a way he sacrificed himself so Harry could end it all. I personally believe DD will return somehow in book 7. DD knows way to much to not have some sort of inside info. I like the idea of DD being some sort of seeres, but I think that him time traveling makes more sense. Maybe DD has some secret ancient magic that allowed him to see the future of a persons life and used this knowledge to help Harry of the years. Just some ideas.

Personally, i think that Dumbledore was just thinking logically. Naturally, when you are investigating a potential criminal, you take a look at their background for motives and means. I think that Dumbledore was an extremely observant man who just used his mind a lot. I mean, sure, he was magical too and that helped him along, but most of it was smarts. Just like what Hermione said in the final obstace in the Philosopher's Stone, something about most wizards not having any common sense... but Dumbledore had plenty.

Dumbledore said in HBP to Harry that he felt he had to keep an eye on Tom not just because he was new but also for the safety for others.

So right from when he first met Voldermort he had the intuition of what he was capable off.

He had to know what was behind Voldermort being how he is and the weakness he has displayed.

In HBP he did say that after he had given Harry all the facts it was into Dumbledores theories. Knowledgeable guesswork but guesswork all the same.

We also know that Dumbledore extracted memories that Voldermort thought he had hidden like in Morfin and the old houselves case, voldermort had altered both memories but only Dumbledore cared to dig deeper

i dont think it was a coincidence about everything happening in the same year (eg snape getting DADA job, slughorn getting potions job and harry having voldemort and horcrux lessons)

i still dont know about snape and whether his is good or evil and of course that really answers most of the questons surrounding this thread.

if he is evil then dumbledore made a mistake by trusting him (obviously), however did he give the DADA position to snape to get rid of him at the end of the year?

if he is good then did dumbledore give him the job as a cover-up so he can leave at the end of HBP. also why did dumbledore sacrifice himself (my guess is to let harry find the horcruxes alone)

that was a bit off the topic

anyway i was wondering how dumbledore knew about the horcruxes because they are rare, and one of the only people who knew about them was slughorn

by collecting memories how did he find out and how did he know the memories were held by certain people and how did he get them?

we cant deny he was a very clever wizard

I think the entire year was set up by DD for Harry's benefit. At the beginning we see that DD is injured pretty bad(withered hand), and that Snape has been helping with that. If DD couldn't heal it with his own power, the help of all the teachers at Hogwarts, and most of all Fawkes, then I think that he knew he was dying. I think he ordered Snape to do what was necessary, and made Harry watch so he would know the truth about Malfoy, and with thought, Snape. He knew everything else because of his own memories, the memories that he collected, and his high intelligence.

Maybe Dumbledore offered Snape position of DADA teacher so Harry can become an auror?? . I know that Hogwarts is closed and Harry cant become auror because he hasnt finished 7th year (or even started), and Harry might die in 7th book , but what if.. ? Its stupid , but everything is possible.

it is possible DD gave the DADA job to snape so he could become an auror, however i think there probably is a more substancial reason than that because it is a pretty major decision seeing as he wouldnt give it to him for the first 5 bks.

i know DD likes harry but im not sure he would jeapodise his potions teacher and other students just for harry for 1 year, becuae he knows that snape cant teach DADA in harrys 7th year and if he hadnt died/snape hadnt killed him (if you believe that) then im sure snape would go back to his potions job because slughorn was leaving

I don't think DD planned his death. I think he wasn't shocked baout Snape and malfoy at the end of HBP becasue of teh potion he'd been drinking. I think taht it tok his thinking and emotions out of him. So he didn't really know what he'd been doing. And i don't think giving Slughorn the potions job and Snape the DADA job had much to do with anything. Because maybe Slughorn didn't want to teach DADA?

Hmm, thats interesting. I think that somehow, DD knew that the end was coming soon, with the war going on, DD and Harry were pretty much the main targets, and since DD was protecting Harry so much, he knew he was increasing his chance of dying. He may not have know it would've been Snape, but he probably knew he was going to die soon.

I think that there might be a link here. I also think that there is much more to Snape then what meets the eye. For example, in earlier books, Dumbledore has talked about how death was not the end, it was merely the begining of another path. He was not afraid, nor did he seem to be dreading death. And yet, when he is lying on the ground of the astronomy tower, he is pleading with Snape, seemingly begging for his life.

Would someone who was not afraid of death and knew it was not the end and was as dignified as Dumbledore was really beg for his life?

Yes, I understand that hypothesizing about death and facing it are different things, but Dumbledore was a smart man. I do not believe that he was begging Snape to spare him, which means he must have been begging Snape for something else, maybe to kill him.

I know it seems like a far stretch, but think about it. And if we go with this theory that Dumbledore was not begging for his life, it seems logical that he would also have foreknowledge of this event. If Snape had been keeping Dumbledore posted, Dumbledore would have known that Snape made an unbreakable oath to finish "the task" if Draco couldn't. And, assuming that Dumbledore was the task mentioned, they both would have known for some time that one of them would have to die (since that is what happens if you break an unbreakable oath). This would also make sense, because the night of the attack, Draco did not inform Snape, so, logically, he could not inform Dumbledore. And maybe Dumbledore thought Snape's life was more important. But why? --> Different topic.

So, continuing with this theory, Dumbledore knows that he or Snape must die. This might be why he started teaching Harry all that he could. But wouldn't he have taught Harry more (like spells) in addition to what he was teaching him?

It is all shrowded in mystery. Do you think JKR will ever reveal the answer to us?

I think that Dumbledore knew exactly what was happening, he wasnt surprised by draco on the tower, or even when the other death eaters joined him. He was all cool and calm until Snape came up, then he started pleading, but pleading for what? All he said was "Severus...Severus...please..."

Dumbledore wouldnt beg for his life, he knew he would die sometime. But the thing that bothers me more then the pleading, is Dumbledore being thrown over the battalions(sp?), when somebody gets hit by Avada Kedavra, they just fall down dead, they dont get thrown backwards, forwards or side to side, they just drop where they were hit. So, why did that happen? Any thoughts?

I kinda agree with you, to me it seems like in the book, everything that was happening, DD already kinda knew about it, but didn't care to let Harry know that he knew. I kinda think DD knew that Malfoy was ordered to kill him. And I think that Snape is good (at least I hope so, I kinda have gotten attached to the guy!) and DD was in on everything. I don't know if DD planned to be killed, or knew when it was going to happen, but i think that he knew it was inevitable, and thats why he was in a such a hurry to pass his bottled 'thoughts' to harry.
And if my theory here turns out to be untrue... I at least hope that JKR made a reason that DD had to die (for the outcome of something good in the book) just like she said, in the 7th book we'll know why Sirius had to die.

he might have put snape as the DADA teacher because he thought either:

a)he would leave because no-one has lasted for more thasn a year. DD might have though he was evil and he needed him to leave
or
b)he thought because snape had lasted such a long time as a teacher he might have been able to break the curse

or another thought:

if dumbledore knows so much: who told him. someone must have told him some very clever things and that person must have been very clever. who was it? were they more powerful than him? or is this just an irregular pointless post that has nothing to do with an important plot

I really dont think that DD "death" had anything to do with Snape being DADA teacher and Slughorn beibg potions teacher...
I think that DD had his information because he had a "spy" in Voldys team.
That, im assuming was Snape, though i do believe that Snape is truly evil, so i dont know why i think this....

One thing i think is sure is that Dumbledore must have known snape had made the unbrakeable vow to save draco as he appointed snape as DADA teacher knowing that LV had placed a curse on the DADA post so that each teacher would only ever last a year......therefore it does suggest he knew most of what was going on otherwise he would have not given snape the job as he after all trusts him.

I believe that DD's death was planned out, along with, Snape's DADA position, and Slughorn there to get the horcrux memory. I think that the pensieve will come into play in the 7th book. I still think that there are a lot of unanswered questions.

I remember reading in Philosiphers Stone that when the stone was destroyed, Harry asked DD about the fate of Nicholas Flemel and his wife.
DD states that to the well organized mind, death is like going to sleep at the end of a long day. (not a quote)
I feel that this foreshadowes that fact that DD knew he was going to come to this fate, and that he had 5 yrs to plan everything.

very strange!

i wonder how dd does knowe everything! bit like god realy! thing is, well never actully find out in the last book or out, though jk may put some clues in!

i hope!

I think that this belongs here although, it only covers how DD knew so much about Harry and Voldemort.

I think that DD knew alot more about Harry and Voldemort than anybody, I also think he knew to much even for the most intlligent person in the world I think that he had an information source, but I will tell you all later on in the post. I want to know how DD knew about what Voldemort called his followers and what he was doing, and how he knew that Herry and his parents were attacked on that night. Now on how he knew so much about Harry. How did DD know that Harry was visiting the mirror of erised. Also how does he seem to know where Harry is at all times (this was before he had Harry followed.), like how did DD know that Harry went to the Burrow in his second year, when Mrs.Weasley didn't know that her sons had gone to pick him up. I think our answer came from Olivander, the wnd maker, he said in the first book, that Harry's and Voldemorts' wand cores arfe the same, Pheonix feather, and we find out later that it was Fawks's feather and DD owns Fawks, so I think it is Fawks who lets DD know about Harry and Voldemort. The only questions I can't seem to answer is how Fawks knows about Harry and Voldemort, which I think Fawks can some hoe feels where its feathers are are and when and how they are being used. The more pressing question is how does Fawks relay this message to DD, unless DD can speak to Pheonixs or vica versa.

dumbledore pleading to snape right before snape kills him really got me thinking. at first i thought that dumbledore was pleading snape not to kill him, but now that i've read the book four times, i look at that scene and think: what if it's all part of a plan? what if dumbledore was really pleading snape to kill him? i mean, dumbledore acts like he knows he's going to die. for example, before dumbledore drinks the poison to get to the horcrux in the cave, he makes a toast to harry's health - only to harry's health. pretty fishy, eh? ;-)

dumbledore didnt stay in place because hes a very strong wizard and snape wouldnt have ment the spell meaning dumbledore had a chance to escape and so he did leaving everyone to think that he died.

1. Dumby could not find anyone else for the DADA job seeing as it a post that is not very desirable, so he finally had to be like since i trust snape i trust him for the position. He felt that there was no other option. So he needed slughorn for potions.
2. If he really knew he was dying he would have told HArry everything. He would have told him more about the Horcruxes and how to be destroyed and where to find them. he didnt tell him how to get around priori incatatum because it is likely it will happen again. he also did not tell harry to trust snape after snape had killed him which would have been helpful if snape was good or it was planned.


(this is with help of PurpleForge)


P.S.

Even though this isnt a dumbys death was planned forum there is no way Dumbledore would have put his students in danger of deatheaters so if by any way the death was planned they would not do it at school.

Well..I think that Dumbledore knew about Snape's oath with Narcissa Malfoy at the beginning of HBP and he knew that Snape would HAVE to kill him or he would die. I kind of think that Snape is somehow going to help Harry in the 7th book...maybe that's why Dumbledore let his own death happen...

[font=Book Antiqua]I believe foremost that DD was just extremely intelligent. I think he deduced the series of events that were going to happen. I also beleive that DD had Snape kill him so as to spare Malfoy his innocence (remember that he kept telling Malfoy that it took alot to end anothers' life). DD was dedicated to children. He was a dedicated professor. I think that Snape did tell him about the vow and perhaps Snape did it on DD's persistence. It was a sure fire way to convince Voldemort that Snape was on his side. If Snape really wanted to kill Harry he could've at the forest. i don't think that DD was a "seerer"; recall that he tells Harry that when he first went to interview (I can't remember her name: the crazy teacher that had the vision) "her" he was basically just doing it to be nice...then she had a real vision. DD says that it's not an exact art. DD posses a profound knack for seeing people as they are. He reminds me of Yoda in a sense. I too belive that DD left Harry clues and that he believes in Harry. I am so excited to see how it all pans out. My biggest fear is that I'll cry reading this one just like I did the last one...

Well are we forgeting when LV killed the Potters and the spell backfired it blew the house up was this just because of the spell back firing or because the spell was done with such hate and animosity so is the force of the spell projeced through the caster based on anger or is it something else

I think that to a certain extent the question really is how did Dumbledore know that Slughorn had that particular memory that he need Slughorn to be near by for him, or Harry as is the case to retrieve it?

And why do all discussion have to lead back to Snape? We know that he is all important and all that but it just seems that we start off with one discussion and it leads back to Snape and wether he knew or didn't know, if he is good or evil or her loved or didn't love Lily.

Sorry I am just in a bit of a Anti-Snape mood.

I must say Rory... that is an excellent question! How did DD know about the memory!? I think you should start a new topic about that or if you would give me the permission to.

But I think he found out through occulmency. Like that night in Toms journal Harry saw DD ask Tom if he wanted to tell him something. Just like he always asked Harry but he already knew through occulmency, I think he did the same to Tom. DD already knew but he wanted Tom to confess. Im guessing he was already in the killing buisness though since he had no problem killing muggleborns, meaning he probably already found out about horcruxes from slughorn.

I think, that he just thought that Slughorn told Tom about the Horcruxes, b/c they were both teachers at Hogwarts when Tom was a student there and he knew about Slughorn's knowledge of horcruxes. So he guessed that Tom was able to get the information he wanted from Slughorn, b/c Slughorn is a easily influencable person. I don't think that he used occlumency, but maybe I'm wrong. I don't think that it will play a role in the upcoming book, but although it's interesting to think about how DD worked out his whole plan to defeat Voldemort.