I didn`t mean that LV would split his soul on eight pieces. but that DD maybe had been wrong about about Nagini being a horcrux or Nagini being a last horcrux LV made. And I wanted to say that LV had an opportunity to search for something of Grif or Rav because he has been in hogwarts whole year and I just do not se a point in that. he could have taken a philosopher stone sooner (as soon as he found out how to pass by that three headed dog)

sirius' mirror,
though i agree about the sword i have to disagree with some points in this paragraph:


The problem with that is the fact there has been some pretty evil stuff in the school that has gone unnoticed including a horcrux. The diary was able to cause so much problems right under Dumbledore's nose. Wh didnt he sense that?

What about Pr. Quirell? He had Volde growing right out the back of his head! Yet right underneath his nose even more so than the diary. Thats why i just dont think he can sense everything there. He even says himself (Dumbledore) that Tom Riddle knew the magic of the school better than anyone. so thats why i think a horcux could be at the school or the school itself.

The only problem with Quirrel being a horcrux is that in the 1st book, that piece of Voldy would have died instead of leaving Quirrel's body, and retreating. But I could be wrong.

I think that what could have happened when it comes to the horcruxes, is first he created the diary, cup and locket horcruxes, plus a possible Ravenclaw horcrux, and then, Voldemort intended to teach at Hogwarts to get the sword to use as a horcrux, but then after his post was denied, years later, he wanted to make a final horcrux with Harry's death, but then, about the loss of his body, part of his soul went into Harry, and Harry I think could be the Heir of Gryffindor, and was used as a Gryffindor horcrux.

And then with Nagini, I think somehow, Voldemort learned of how his diary horcrux was destroyed, and then created Nagini to have his amount of horcruxes still being the number 7.

Much of the evil stuff that has been going on in Hogwarts has been noticed by Dumbledore, he just hasn't always been in a position to do anything about it. The Diary did cause a lot of problems and Dumbledore was well aware of them, he even suspected that Riddle had had something to do with the opening of the Chamber of Secrets the first time around, he just had no proof of it, and as far as he was aware Tom Riddle/Voldemort/Vapormort/whatever you want to call him was in Albania or some such country and so wasn't around to reopen the Chmaber, nor did Dumbledore know about the horcruxes at that time or even that Riddle had kept adiary at all never mind that it had survived all those years and had been entrusted into the hands of a Death Eater, so there was no obvious explanation as to what was happening at the time.

As for Professor Quirrell, he certainly didn't seem the type to be going after the Philosopher's Stone or working with/for Voldemort and even less both. He wore a turban and so nobody knew that he had Voldemort growing out of the back of his head and the Philospher's Stone was believed to be under excellent defences, which, I guess, it was, they were beaten, yes, but they were excellent in thought to begin with and worked to slow Quirrell enough that Harry was able to catch up with him before either he or Voldemort had figured out a way around Dumbledore's last defence in the Mirror of Erised. There's no way he can sense absolutely everything that goes on in Hogwarts but he seems to have a pretty good idea of what happens, especially the particularly dangerous goings on and any potential evil. I believe he was aware that something was going on the whole time that something dark was happening, he just couldn't quite pinpoint what it was.

Riddle may very well have known the magic of the school very well but I doubt he knew all its secrets, I doubt anyone ever knows all of its secrets, yes, I agree that there could be a horcrux in Hogwarts, I'm just not sure where it would be hidden, the Room of Requirement is too well known to the likes of Dumbledore for it to be hidden there, there are all the secret passages, but they get found by students so that might not be very safe either. So I'd be very interested to hear your theories on where exactly in Hogwarts you believe it could be hidden; assuming of course, that you aren't referring back to your old theory that the entire of Hogwarts is a horcrux?

My opinion is that no one can know all of the powers that go around in hogwarts, it is too big, and old, and magical for just one person to find everything about it. Tom did know a lot about Hogwarts, I would say about 7 times as much as Hermione currently, because he did want to know a lot about the school.

I also think that his interests in the school were also because he wanted to know what kind of magic could be done and how powerful and useful it could become. Even as a 15 year old Tom thought about becoming the most powerful wizard ever and domminating the world, I think that him studying the school, all of its spells and enchatments, helped him become a better wizard over all and made him become more powerful, because he then knew many more spell then the normal wizard would know.

Rachel:


That was my point. That there could be something in the school that he may not be able to sense. And i wasnt refferring to that even though i still support my "old" theory. I was just trying to make a point that Dumbledore didnt know everything going on.

Potter_Addict_713 said

Is it possible that amiss the turmoil of spells that bind the school together, Tom found a horcrux or horcruxes made within the school which is what lead him to ask the professor in the first place, second place if his first was to the school library, what object or even who's object could it be….? I'm going on a tangent, back to the point. Tom’s diary was the pinnacle of his magical ability wile he was in school before he declared his lordship and was possible inspired by the books of the restricted section. Know as we do how remarkable and powerful a horcrux can be, how great and terrible can the horcruxes be as later and more powerful he is now. It scares me, for Harry’s sake of what will happen to someone who wares the locket taken by RAB. I do not believe in the Hogwarts as a horcruxs but I do believe that others and maybe even Riddle him self may have made some within.

possible inspired by the books of the restricted section.

Hey! What about that screaming book from SS/PS? Harry should go back and look at it! You know how JK Rowling doesn't have many passing comments.

The restricted section has come up in the books several times other then in the first and to my knowledge has been a reference for advanced study of upper gradsmen; Dose any one know more on this section of the library?

aight check it this way....

7 horcuxs total..confirmed
1. tom riddle/voldemort
2. ring
3. locket
4. diary
5. voldemort
6. ?
7. nagini?
now number one died when he tried to kill harry...2,3,4 destroyed. that means one of 5,6, or 7 is the new voldemort that came to life in GoF. harry only has to find two horcruxs...unless the locket wasnt actually destroyed...but say it was. harry only has two. voldemort was goin to use harry's death as his seventh horcux. but died remember. so is seventh came into effect when V killed the Riddle gardener..supposedly. So made nagini it? then the sixth is unknown. not as much of a complicated adventure. which is prob y book seven is so short. more bout answers then adventure

JKR said something intriguing, that Harry's task in DH is to find and destroy the horcruxes, or at least that's what Harry thinks it is.

Is it possible that Harry does NOT have to find and destroy the horcruxes? Is the destruction of LV via the physical death after the death of the horcruxes the only/necessary end of the story?

Let's look at what JKR says about the showdown:



None of that necessitates death.

Then later she says:


Now, granted that does postulate "that is how you kill Voldemort and that is what he has to do". But I wonder if the "he believes he knows what he is facing" leaves the door open to the possibility that Harry does not need to destroy the horcruxes and LV.

Even Hitler, cornered in his bunker and losing, committed suicide rather than letting his enemy kill him. And DD is said to have "defeated" Grindelwald, not kill him. Might LV gather up his horcruxes and destroy them himself to keep Harry from having the opportunity? there ARE other paths to immortality after all.

Just an idea, farfetched tho it is.

I really like what you said here, pumpkin juice. This is like a really good quote!!!!

ok, anyways, there are other ways then Harry having to distroy the horcruxes. I personally, feel that Harry is not the type of person who would use the Avada Kadavera curse...to me, that just does not seem like Harry.

Though I do think there are other ways... that chances of Voldemort commiting suicide though, I think are pretty slim, but hey, it could happen. Though, if he wanted to, I think it would be pretty hard because he first has to take the time of finding all of his other horcruxes and distroying those first, you know....

But is it possible, that before all of Voldemort's other souls are distroyed, that a Dementor can suck out the soul that is in his body, because that would make Voldemort be dead, or pretty much dead, right? Do you think that is possible?

just after harry get the diary i noticed this one off reference to a medal

C.O.S CHAP 13 THE VERY SECRET DIARY
Riddle's burnished gold shield was tucked away in a corner cabinet. It didn't carry details of why it had been given to him ( Good thing too or it'd be even bigger and I'd still be polishing it said ron). However, they did find riddle's name on an old medal for magical merit, and on a list of head boy's.
it dose not say when LV got the medal so it could of been is first prize for anything and he could be fond of it
all the most likely possible horcruxes seem to have already been covered
it quite a long shot but you never no with JKR

I have a question, since we are pretty much positive that Nagini is a horcrux, and she has a piece of LV's soul in her, does that mean she is Lord Voldemort? Like he is posessing her? It may be an obvious choice for everyone else but not for me.

^I'm not sure. I do find it odd that Wormtail had to milk Nagini so that he could not be stronger. I always wondered about that, a lot. Maybe he had to drain some of his soul out of her and into him? I don't know.

Anyways, quick question. Are we sure that a horcrux is not at Hogwarts somewhere? We know that Voldemort found out about the horcruxes while he was still at Hogwarts because he askd Slughorn about them. How do we know that while he was at Hogwarts, he didn't have a horcrux hidden there? We know that he wanted a job at Hogwarts so that he could get near the sword and things like that, but do we know for sure that there isn't one at Hogwarts? I know that Dumbledore watched his carefully. . .but we don't know for sure. . .

i dont think the horcrux could be anything that weve seen at hogwarts, like the mention of riddles special services award. dumbledore would have sensed really dark magic, just like he sensed out the gateway. i think the only place in hogwarts where a horcrux could be is the room of requirement. the chamber of secrets would work, but harrys already battled for his life in there and i think it might be a bit boring if he does that over.
cheers

Radkay, i really have to disagree with you when you say DD could have sensed really dark magic, we have already seen where there has been dark magic right in front of him and he didnt know it..i'm not going into it again, i've already hit on that.

Nagini we learn something very important about Nagini in OOTP,What her venom actually does. When Arthur gets bit, they cant make the wound stop bleeding. To me being in the medical proffession this is HUGE! Yes his soul is probally hidden within her but it also shows why the milk was so important, the blood. Her venom(milk) makes blood flow continually, thats why he needed it, giving blood to a person makes them stronger, in a very general sense. That blood was providing the energy that he(Volde) needed. It was helping him gain strenght till he was in full Humanish form.

i think the seven horcruxes are

Book 1: Something of Ravenclaw or Gryffindor's

Book 2: The Diary

Book 3:The Helga Hufflepuffs Cup

Book 4: Nagini

Book 5: The Locket

Book 6: Gaunts ring

Book 7: Voldemort himself

MissMuggleBethany, can you elaborate a little on what you mean? Are you saying that Nagini's venom causing continuous bleeding after a bite means that it would somehow ennervate LV's own blood supply when taken internally and somehow keep him alive?
I'm wondering because this would somehow make her function like something of a placenta to the fetal LV; and JKR has said that there is something important about that fetal form that he was in before he went into the cauldron....
Can you say more? Thanks!

Were we introduced to Helga's cup in the 3rd book? I am not sure that we were. Where does it say?

Pumpkin Juice, I'm not sure what i need to say, I've never heard that from JK, about the fetal form; I just think that that Arthur telling us in five that they couldnt get the blood to stop, for some reason they werent sure why and Volde focusing on the fact the the milk from Nagini was so important in 4, I just put 2 and 2 together. What do you mean by say more on that?

Ok so once again, another crazy trend I have noticed that probably is not right in any way.

ok so in this thread about Professor Binns: http://www.veritaserum.com/forums/index.ph...12563&st=15
It recalled the fact that Binns just rose up one day, but never mentioned how he had died.

I took this with another thread I had seen one day and searched for it, but I couldn't find it again. There is supposedly a chapter called The Heart of Ravenclaw.

So what if Binns was the heir of Ravenclaw and through his blood, LV could steal his heart through some type of Dark Magic. That or perhaps he had something of Ravenclaw's and LV killed him for it and modified his memory so much that he became a ghost and has no recollection of anything except to teach and what he is teaching. It's a stretch, but I think it is feasable.

Ooh, that's interesting--could Tom have killed Binns? wow, that would be something....

Another thought just hit me:
We all think the locket is the only horcrux at Grimauld.
But the only item that is NAMED in HBP when Mundungus is talking to Aberforth outside the HogsHead is the "silver goblet". I see no mention of the locket, which many have asserted has been traded off to Aberforth. We have focused on the locket at Grimauld cuz we know about the fake one. But that doesnt mean that's all there is.
Now, the Hufflepuff Goblet was gold in Hokey's memory that DD shows Harry.

Could the silver goblet be the gold cup?

How?
Because DD is an alchemist.
And there are lots of silver things associated with him--his office instruments, the silver memory threads, his silver hair, etc. Could the silver goblet be the gold cup, replated in order to hide it in plain sight, like the locket was being hidden in plain sight? More on this after some more research!!

Why else mention the goblet instead of the locket? Because "Harry knows more than he realizes"--Harry, in seeing the cup, might put two and two together. Just like maybe we are supposed to, JKR having mentioned the unimportant cup instead of the all-important locket.

That would certainly hasten the horcrux hunt, which it needs.

That's a really interesting theory, there. I like it, but i just have one quick question. Or two, more or less. Why would Dumbledore tell Harry there are still 4 horcruxes left to find, and why not just destroy the cup rather than change it's colors? And also, i don't think the locket was hidden in plain sight-Dumbledore nor Voldemort knew it was there. But, i liek the theory nonetheless, did you find anythign else out during your research?

I Think that the Seventh Horcruxe is some thing of Ravenclaws.

The idea About it beeing Her Wand is a good one.

no i don't like the wand theory i REALLY like the theory that the tiara of the weasley family is a horcruxe. It is tied into the school which is somehting Voldemort wanted. It belongs to a pureblood family which as pointed out may be related to ravenclaw. It was introduced in HBP in a way suggesting that it will definitely be in the last book meaning it has importance and may play a role. I don't know my gut just says the tiara is a crux. the only thing i don't get then might be why NONE of the weasleys were in Ravenclaw.

I am also very interested in the Binns theory though i don't know how anyhting about a horcrux can come from that, prof. Binns must have taught riddle and i think it is very interesting that riddle could have killed him. At first i dismissed it as a joke by rowlings but is there merit? though could Tom have killed anyone at that point?

The tiara is a horcrux in my opinion, and i definitely think Nagini is one and nothing of Gryffindor's is

The Thing about the tiara, now that i think about it seams better, because Ravenclaw is said to be fair, so she may be the type to where one. But I am shure that the seventh is a Ravenclaw object.

And correct me if i'm wrong but didn't Jo say in an interview that the Ravenclaws would have their day?

right right right Huker, i forgot to post that last time and i definitely remember JKR saying that exact thing. Ravenclaw will have it's day. Honestly it is kind of obvious that Ravenclaw has been kind of ignored throughout the books but I definitely think the last Horcrux will be Ravenclaw related with a lead like that, and in my opinion who better than to bring the school founder up than Mrs. Weasley who is possibly related to Rowina Ravenclaw? I think the tiara is it.

Soul pieces we can identify:
1. Voldemort himself
2. Gaunt's Ring (destroyed)
3. Riddle's Diary (destroyed)
4. Slytherin's Locket (taken by RAB)
5. Hufflepuff's Goblet
6. Nagini
7. Something of Ravenclaw's or Gryffindor's
8. Something of Ravenclaw's or Gryffindor's (Did Voldy make a seventh horcrux? Speculation says no, but it can't be ruled out)

Voldy never needed to use a horcrux. AK killed his body, but still left the piece of soul, just like what happened in the Sorcerer's stone.

Horcruxes we know:

Ring, DD destroyed it

Diary, Harry Destroyed it.

Now, did RAB succeed in destroying the locking or only in hiding it? If RAB was Regulas, is it possible he had it on him when Voldy killed him? If so, Voldy could have possession of one horcrux.

Hufflepuff's Goblet, DD's speculation makes a lot of sense. I would agree that Voldy made attempts to find an object of each of the founders, but did he succeed? We know he did with at least two items.

Nagini would make sense, being as Harry was able to dream her thoughts on the attack of Arthor Weasley.

Possible Horcruxes:

Gryffindor's. I believe Gryffindor's sword is a horcrux. It is his only known possession and it's origins are never explained except that Harry pulled it out of the sorting hat. But where was it before he pulled it out of the sorting hat? If the sorting hat was made by the original heads of houses, then it could have magical power far beyond what any of us have imagined to this point, so it would be completely feasible that it could have given Harry that item despite the protection Voldy placed on it. Plus that would just add the kind of irony that authors like to throw into books. Slytherine's beast killed by his heirs horcrux. I love it! Not only that, but I think that the sword will play a much larger role in Deathly Hollows, much to Voldy's shock and chagrin.

What of Ravenclaw? That I believe was the final horcrux. I believe Voldy succeeded in making seven horcruxes and Ravenclaw's was number 7.

Harry, never in a million years. My explanation can be found in that forum.

Slytherine's beast? If Nagini is a Horcrux, Slytherine's beast could have been. It would have definitely been grandiose enough for Voldy and it would have the family significance.

What do we know about Voldy's choice in Horcruxes?

School founders: This fascinated voldimort beyond measure. He would have killed, and we know he did, to bring all of the founders back together for his immortality.

Family heirlooms: We know Voldy was proud of his wizard line. He did all he could to decieve people to believing he was full blood, as exemplified by Beatrix's reaction when Harry taunted her in HBP.

The last horcruxes were chosen out of desperation: Nagini. Why Nagini? 4 founders items, 2 heirlooms , this leaves 1 more horcrux...or does it? There are a plethora of other heirlooms that Voldy could have used, why did he choose Nagini? I think Nagini was the last, chronologically, horcrux that Voldy made out of sheer desperation. Why was he getting desperate? The prophecy. What if this baby grew to kill him? What if Voldy intended to kill both Harry and Nevelle, but Harry was just the first on the list? Voldy was smart. He had backup plans...extensive backup plans as exemplified by 7 horcruxes. He knew there were 2 babies. He didn't know the whole prophecy, but he knew enough to narrow it down to 2 babies, Neville and Harry. DD explains that Voldy chose Harry to be his equal. What if this is exemplified more by the fact that he wanted to kill Harry first, then that he just wanted to kill Harry? Anywho, Nagini wasn't an ideal choice, Nagini was a backup.

So yeah, that's my long winded shpeel.

Thought just occured and I aplogize for not checking all entire thread.

What would have been LV first chance to make a horocrux of upon returning to form in the graveyard. The hand, Peter's silver hand that he created out of thin air in the graveyard.

a stretch but if it is the hand, Peter has no knowledge of it but it could be a way to repay the debt to Harry.

Ok...using common logic, we know what exactly Voldemort is drawn to...power...so, the 7 horcruxes are..

1. himself
2. the diary
3. ring
4. locket (slytherin)
5. Hufflepuff goblet


and most likely....

6. something from ravenclaw
7. something from gryffindor

although the sword is the only reference to gryffindor so far....why have something from every other house, but not from one?

In GoF pg 653 Voldemort states, "...You know my goal -- to conquer death. And now, I was tested, and it appeared that one or more of my experiments worked...for I had not been killed, though the curse should have done it..."

One or more of Voldemort's experiments worked. I conclude each Horcrux creation to have been an experiment of his. What if one or more of the Horcruxes Voldemort created, which still remain to be found and opened, failed?? What if the soul part encased within the horcrux item is dead, withered, wasted, just gone?

How would Voldemort know? If he does not know if one is destroyed through attack, he would not know if one was, to be blunt, a dud.

didn't dumbledore say that Voldy was going to make his seventh and final horcrux when he killed harry? but he never killed harry, so wouldn't that mean there are only seven pieces of soul, including the piece left in voldy? So the only pieces of his soul are in himself, the cup, the ring, the diary, the locket, nagini, and one thing of either griffindor or ravenclaw, but not both. So there are only 6 horcurxes, not including what's left in him; that's not a horcrux.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, please.

That's right, but it is pure speculation. No one really knows what all of the horcruxes are. I think some of the memories we have not seen will give us more insight. McGonnegle, being Dumbledore's right hand gal, I think will take over Dumbledore's role, not only at Hogwarts, but in the OOTP and as Harry's mentor as well (quite a great femenist message, don't you think? lol) With her taking these roles, she give Rowling the person she needs to give Dumbledores history and someone who would know much of what Dumbledore was doing. Dumbledore, unlike Voldy, was not entirely independent. He relied on friends and those he loved. He confided. McGonnigle was his confidante. She will be Harry's guide into Dumbledore's thought process and her memories of their interactions will prove invaluable to Harry's search. This will also give Harry's character a greater family balance. Dumbledore and Serious were his father figures, Mrs. Weasly and McGonnigle will be his mother figures. I also have a feeling the Binn's death with be how ghost's are explained and will also explain much of Voldy's past. I believe that Binns was killed by a silent AK curse from behind while Voldy visited the school to apply for the defence against the dark arts job. How is this rambling significant to the horcruxes? Because he got Ravenclaw or Griffendor's item from Binns. He's a history teacher and new more about Hogwarts history than anyone except maybe Hermoine, lol. He may have had possession of one or more of these items.

i agree that Binns' death plays a role in the book and in the sequence of events concerning LV but I don't think McGonagall will be playing the role you give her. She was a confidant but not as much as you think. When Dumbledore died it was clear she was desperate for some information regarding what Dumbledore and Harry did that night, no one except Harry and Dumbledore (and possibly Snape) knew what happened or anything about the Horcruxes, even Mcgonagall did not know. I am curious to see what her role will be in the 7th book.

Now i have another question concerning the number of Horcruxes. I think it is possible that Voldemort created 7 horcruxes in addition to himself leaving 8 to be destroyed but I also wonder if he unwittingly destroyed one. When he killed Harry, I know he said he was powerfully weak afterwards but did he die and in doing so lose his sould and have to use a Horcrux to continue? I dont think so but it's possible. That leaves my list of Horcruxes as:

1. The diary
2. Gaunt's Ring
3. Slytherin's locket (in my opinion taken by Regulus A Black and left in #12 Grimmauld Pl.)
4. Hufflepuffs Cup
5. Nagini (trust Dumbledore on this one)
6. Ravenclaw's tiara
7. Voldemort himself

The sword of Gryffindor is not a Horcrux because Voldemort could not have gotten it. "only a true Gryffindor could pull that sword out of the hat" and Having no connection to Gryffindor and therefore no way to get the hat, Voldemort could not have touched it, it has remained safe and sound (Perhaps symbolism for Harry being Gryffindor and thereofre opposite or special to Voldemort, hahaha)

Ok, was reading another post and thought of this. When Voldemort went to the Potters house, he only had 5 Horcruxes. His last was going to be Harry's death. DD said he may have made the last with the gardeners death in GoF and put it into Nagini. But DD also said he made them with important deaths, so would he make one with the death of a muggle?
He thought of muggles as worthless, so why associate a muggle with his soul? Maybe Nagini is not a horcrux, and he only has 5, and a 6th bit of soul in himself. So harry would have to destroy 2. The cup of Hepzibah Smith and something of ravenclaws, that could make the job a bit faster.

Anyone have any Ideas??? Post Em,

Edit: I know about the six horcruxes bit. What i mean did he only make 5, and the sixth bit in his body. Two are destroyed (Ring, and Diary) Locket we may have location of (and may be destroyed), so hearry must find the cup and dicover/destroy the last bit before Voldemort.

Hi Em, this topic is going to be closed down soon, as it's close to several others. I tried to search for the closest one, but the search engine gave soooooooooo many unrelated topics, that it's no wonder that people are duplicating topics. The one on 5 horcruxes that I had thought was open had been shut down as well, so I'm guessing here, that they want us to discuss this in What will the seven horcruxes be?

I agree with that thought, but I think it's 4 not 5 horcruxes left. Here's why I say that... 7 pieces = 6 splits of the soul plus the one piece that stays with the body. Here are the soul pieces as I see them:
1. body - original piece
2. ring - destroyed
3. locket
4. diary- destroyed
5. something of Hufflepuff- cup
6. something of Ravenclaw
7. I don't think he ever made the 6th split or the 7th piece, whichever you prefer... He made the horcruxes using "special" murders, and what could be more special to him than making one with the murder of "the chosen one"???? Since he only survived that one as "Vapormort," he never completed that split. I think it's possible that he even transferred piece 1 that was in his body to Harry on that day, and later retrieved it in his rebirthing ceremony whe he used Harry's blood... I think Harry was a horcrux, but since LV retrieved it himself, and it didn't need to be destroyed, Harry was able to live, and DD got that triumphant gleam in his eye (because he was probably trying to figure out how to destroy that piece.)

I totally agree with you that LV would NEVER use a muggle death to make a horcrux, there is no importance there at all, and for him, everything has to have an importance. I also don't think he'd risk putting a horcrux into Nagini, as DD said it would be risky to do so.

Now, the longer he goes alive and whole, the more chance that he will make that 7th piece, but I think he will still hold out to make it using Harry's death which would be hugely meaningful to him.

So I see Harry having to find 4 soul pieces:
1. locket
2. something of Hufflepuff- cup
3. something of Ravenclaw
4. the body the last fight with LV

There are 4 parts out there... not 4 horcruxes... 'not very far wide of the mark...right?

I think there are 6 Horcruxes LV saved Horcruxes for signifigant deaths and i don't think that he was able to make 6 i think Harry would have been the 6th Horcrux not the 7th, meaning after LV's "death" for lack of a better term Nagini would have become the 6th not the 7th horcrux. And 7 has always been a powerfully magic number but 6 is the number of pure evil, i think that Harry will be represented by 7 friends ( Ron, Hermione, Neville, Ginny, Luna, Fred, George) and Lord Voldemort will be seperated into 6 Pieces.

We could speculate all we want, but theres is one thing we always seem to forget. Jo always does the unexpected. She throws a curveball every step of the way

I cannot help but wonder, suddenly, about that tiara that has never struck me as particularly important except as a gesture between Molly and Fleur.

But now that I have been thinking about the significance of Goblins in the last book.....

The tiara is goblin-made.
So is the silver goblet that Mundungus asks Sirius about. This cup is mentioned twice--why? I hypothesize that it may be Hufflepuff's cup, in disguise.
Tom goes to visit Hepzibah Smith to buy goblin-made armor when he learns about Slytherin's Locket and Hufflepuff's cup.

I am thinking that we are getting hints that goblins are somehow associated with the objects that LV may have horcruxed.

So, the tiara being goblin-made makes me wonder.....could it have been Gryffindor's? We know that the Weasley family is a pure-blood family with a long history. They are all Gryffindors.DD only alludes to the idea of the "only KNOWN object of Gryffendor" being the sword. But we know that is technically incorrect, since the sorting hat is as well. Is that technical error a clue--and an interesting clue, since it is a HAT: something that goes on the head. The tiara is worn on the head.

The question is whether LV ever found it and horcruxed it. What would it mean either way?

That's what I'm saying, Katowaggles, remember, it takes 7 soul pieces to make 6 horcruxes. Also remember that what LV was going for was a 7 piece soul, not 7 horcruxes.

My list translated:

body - original soul piece - NOT A HORCRUX
ring - Horcrux #1 - DESTROYED
locket - Horcrux #2
diary - Horcrux #3 - DESTROYED
Hufflepuff's cup - Horcrux #4
something of Ravenclaw - Horcrux #5
Horcrux #6 - NOT MADE

OK, then, if there were only 5 horcruxes made to start out with, and 2 are destroyed, then 3 are left. There are 3 horcrux pieces to find and destroy before the original piece of the soul that resides in LV is destroyed and he is killed. 4 SOUL PIECES need to be destroyed in DH.
4 horcruxes is not "very far wide of the mark" from 4 soul pieces total.

Yeah, like samsmom said Muggle Slayer, we already have a thread discussing this, so I'll merge this with the existing thread. The search engine is a good way of finding out whether similar topics already exist - the trick is probably to look for the right keywords. Otherwise, looking at the pinned topics and master lists in each forum is also a good idea. If you haven't already, please have a look at the rules! Thanks!

samsmom, please check your inbox soon.

I'm going to pursue my idea about Goblins and their relationship to the horcrux objects a little more.

We are told that Goblins stamp each coin that they mint for wizards with a trace code that indicates precisely which Goblin made that individual coin. That is a pretty specific, seemingly unimportant piece of information until you stack it up next to the current conflict with the Goblins, and the fact that valuable metal-objects are almost always said to be "goblin-made". Now, if Goblins mark with a code each individual coin they make for wizards, what are the chances that they have not marked the other metal objects they have made?

So, I'm wondering if somehow the role of Goblins will have something to do with their ability to recognize and recall to themselves those metal objects that they have made. We know they are the keepers/protectors of wizard valuables--but maybe that protective ability has to do with their special magic of keeping the metals they forge in their own possession?

Could the goblins help Harry by recalling goblin-made objects to themselves, thereby wrenching certain goblin-metal horcrux objects from their places and having them wind up, say, at Gringots? That's farfetched, I know....it just seems like there is some kind of Goblin connection here......

So the goblin-made tiara, possibly the goblin-metal cup of hufflepuff (which I still believe to be possibly the silver cup at the Black house that Mundungus made off with, in disguise).

One reason I suspect a connection is this: the metal horcrux objects we have met have all borne someone's mark:
Ring: bore the mark of the Peverell family
Locket: bore Slytherin's mark
Cup: bore Hufflepuff's mark

We know Goblins leave marks.

We know the cup at the Blacks bears the Black crest but that Mundungus says that could be "buffed out" or something like that. If it is removable, that means it may also not be original.

Just an addendum to your last paragraph, pumpkinjuice.

In a home a goblet would be for drinking, right? So, there should be lots of them in the Black house, right? So, we only see ONE? Just one? Not a cupboard full of these goblets?

Well, that is suspicious right there. Why only one? Well, because it is one IMPORTANT cup, of course. Black Crest or not, I think you are right, it is not what it appears to be.

You've posted this in a few threads, and I just got on the same page with you.
Boy am I slow.

hey Sirren
Yes, we see the one cup, and yet have the set of silver dishware referred to en masse. In other words of a whole set of silver dishes and whatnot bearing the Black crest, Mundungus holds up that one for Sirius to comment on, and then later drops it in the street.

Not a coincidence, unless it is one meant to mislead us. I suppose it could just be a clue for Harry, in case the locket turns up missing, he could suddenly remember Mundungus and the cup talking to Aberforth. So the coincidence could be pointing us to people rather than the object itself. But is that typical in the books?

I was going more on the lines of there should be a full compliment of goblets, if they were indeed the drinking kind. If the goblet in question is rather an ornamental goblet, that altogether different.

So, Helga's goblet was magical, that would not be a goblet from a set of drinking goblets, rather "ornamental" in nature; thus, being singular?

Was Mundungus looking at a goblet without mates? It is also important to note that Dumbledore instructed Sirius to locate Mundungus, Lupin and someone else, "the old crowd" to assist in this new fight.

Sirius knows Mundungus is a thief and a hocker of items. He didn't seem to care. I think you are on the right track: that goblet is different. ... and it might just be another horcrux RAB found, hid, but did not have a chance to destroy.

Yeah, I'm starting to think there may be more to Dung than meets the eye. Granted, he abandons his post watching Harry and he is a thief, but a thief who does find things. We know that Sirius's information is often partial--it could very well be that there are things about Dung that Sirius was never told, especially if DD was worried about there being an inside informant last time, that he suspected could be Sirius.

Check out the Ravenclaw's Wand thread and the Orphanage thread for some thoughts about the wand that used to be in Ollivander's window. If it is a Ravenclaw object and LV finally found out, that could be why Ollivander is gone (along with his possible role in arming goblins). Or, it might be Neville's new wand as samsmom suggested.

Hey pumpkinjuice and sirren... what if the cup, the ONE cup, is not a cup at all... What if it's not the horcrux but something or someone transfigured to look like a cup! We know it can be done, as the rats into goblets lesson the kids had with McGonagall. Also, Slughorn becoming a chair...

What if RAB is not dead, but just under the "Draught of the Living Dead" and transformed to be a cup... with a Black family crest just to be funny...

The draught has been mentioned too many times to be irrelevant, including in Snape's and Slughorn's first lessons. RAB's death has been mentioned, but not with any detail... a "few" days after he left LV's service, with no mention of who might have done it.

Just a thought. I had been trying to think of where or how his body would be hidden if he had been given the draught, and when Sirren made the comment about there only being ONE cup, it made me think. If someone gave him the draught with the intent to awaken him when it was safe, they'd have to hide his body well so no one else would know.

samsmom: that is a riot!

Not that farfetched either. If Regulus is alive, he must be hidden somewhere. I never thought he might be "something" somewhere, but why not?

If it could be done, Dumbledore could do it. Who would undo it, then?

Samsmom i really like the theory about RAB being "alive"/ in cup form. It's farfetched but its just the sort of thing you would never expect. Though it's hard because the cup has a huge chance of being THE CUP too. though why are all these things in the black family house. Yeah the locket if RAB is regulus then it makes sense it would be in his house, but why the cup if it's hufflepuff's? I don't think he found two hurcruxes so the goblet is not Hufflepuffs but could very well be R.A.B, especially because if he did find two Horcruxes don't you think it's a little dangerous to keep two UNDESTROYED horcruxes in one place? seems a little sketchy to me.

Though i don't agree that Voldemort only made 5 horcruxes and didn't have the ability to make a 6th. What does Dumbledore exactly say when he is talking to Harry about Horcruxes and listing them off not necessarily JKR but Dumbledore. Plus i believe that Voldemort didn't make the last Horcrux before his curse rebounded but didn't Dumbledore suspect he made Nagini a Horcrux after the fact, in fact recently? He could have done it more recently then, he never had Nagini before and he had to settle for Nagini because he couldn't get any other trophies. Either way it doesn't hurt to kill the snake anyway. It's not like it's a good thing for Harry to have around