The thing about Harry/Hermione friendship is that it is nicely showcased in the movies as being pleasant and friendly. Hence the word friend. But the most important thing is that it is never blatantly shown to be romantic. Heck, for all the cozy time that HP and HG supposedly spend together, you think they would be ramming it down our throats. But they aren't, because there is no romance between them to ram down. So it remains, in my opinion, well done as a friendship, which is all it means. Unlike R/Hr, which is shown as being romantic, but is done with class and no throat ramming, although you still know it is there and in the foreground. But back to H/Hr. So if there are any actual H/Hr romance in the movies, that can only mean one of two things:
1) There is an error, because there is none in the books.
2) It is done so subtely that no one can pick up on it.

It just won't happen.

I totaly agree with what you said Mistress of Magic. Harry and Hermione do love each other-but as friends. Like-you can say that you love your dog, but that doesn't mean you want to kiss it, right?

I believe that H/Hr was compleatly dismissed from the HP books was in GoF. This is where JKR tells us to turn to for answers when someone asks who Hermione likes. The magazine article about the whole Krum-Hermione-Harry triangle clearly shows this. I mean, It's from Harry's P.O.V (Point of view) so wouldn't we know if he liked Hermione?

He'd turn red everytime the article was mentioned.

Harry laughed at the notion of Hermione being his girlfriend. He fervently denied it, because it's not true. He left Hermione's problems with Ron. It's clear that Harry didn't want H/Hr. It's also clear in GOF that Hermione didn't intend H/Hr to happen.

Thanks for the support, Moon! In m opinion, that article in GOF was Jo's way of attempting to stmap out the H/Hr idea. She goes out of her way to have several characters ask them about it, and both HP and HG denied. Ah, but how do we know it is truthful? Because the story is from Harry P.O.V, and P.O.V.s don't lie becasue they give us insight into the character's mind. As fopr Hermione? She definately would have attempted by now to make a pass at him, or a least hint the way she heavily hints to Ron on purpose.
Jo is clever. She writes everything for a reason. The article was maybe written for that above reason!

Yeah Mistress of magic, i reckon it was written to stamp out the H/Hr idea. Why else would it be in there (other to confuse people).

Like Muggleview said, Harry thought it was completely ridiculous and i'm betting he was somewhat alarmed about the fact that people actually thought he and Hermione were going out. I know i would be.

If H/Hr's ment to happen, then why did they compleatly deny it?

Hi!
I think they are the perfect friends.I am not trieing to be meam,but HG can be a little annoying and Harry might not want that.Who knows that Harry does like her,but he knows that Ron loves her so he backed off.

If Harry fancies Hermione, we must have read about it early on, because we read what's inside his mind. One clue: how Harry describes a girl's appearance. Of all girls he mentioned, Harry has been positive for 2: Cho and Ginny. Cho got only the simple description: very pretty. Yet Ginny received the no-fault attributes. Hermione as with all others only obtained unflattering characteristics. To Harry, Hermione's more like an elder sister: bossy, but faithful. Nothing about H/Hr in Harry's mind. In fact, Harry was constantly anti H/Hr.

excellent excellent point muggleview that is totally true. Whnever Harry has any felings about anybody you get some indication from him. HIM! not other things in the book. If he truly had taken a liking to Hermione he would have thought or said something related to it. He hasn't so that's got to be an indicator that he's not into Hermion..now Ginny definitely but not Hermione. I see the sister theory but not romantic interest in her at all

Yeah, if Harry had feelings for Hermione, we'd know by book 4, since it deals so much with the romanace, at the latest. He never thinks of her as pretty, expect when she dolled herself up at the Yule Ball, and he calls his date pretty in his head as well. He doesn't describe in loving detail what it's like when she laughs or how she looks pretty even when she crys, like he did with Cho. Nothing, NOTHING on Harry's part.

In Book 1, the idea of Harry and Hermione being together is cute, although readers start to question themselves, why Hermione spent more time conversing with Ron than with Harry.
In Book 2, the idea of Harry and Hermione being together is questionable, because Harry got a himself a girlfriend in Ginny.
In Book 3, the idea of Harry and Hermione being together is ungrounded, because Hermione chose to broke down on Ron.
In Book 4, the idea of Harry and Hermione being together is laughable, as Harry himself demonstrated.
In Book 5, the idea of Harry and Hermione being together is unexpected, because Ron and Hermione have shown behaviour similar to a Weasley husband-wife.
In Book 6, the idea of Harry and Hermione being together is fantasy, as Hermione clearly targeted Ron as her love and Harry kissed Ginny in full view of all Gryffindors.
In Book 7, should there be any slightest idea of Harry and Hermione being together?

I'm not sure about your view on book two Muggs, Ginny wasn't in anyway Harry's girlfriend. The example you should put forth is Ron and Harry's differnt reactions to what Malfoy said, that Hermione should of died.
I think what the root of H/Hr shipping goes back to the first book, favoring them over all the other characters, and creating a romantic bound where friendship is.

Actually Book 2 is the first big blow from the author to H/Hr. It becomes too obvious from the book that H/G is going to happen. It forces the author to hide the ship in the next three books, so not to take away the surprise.
It's the first time a possible girlfriend for Harry is mentioned. Harry didn't argue. He didn't deny. In fact, he kept mentioning in the next two books, how Ginny was very taken with him. In a boy's mind, the girl is already his. Harry may not understand how to handle a girlfriend at that age, but he knows the pride to have a girl specifically adoring him.
What a difference to book 4 where Harry had to deny that Hermione is not his girlfriend.

I wouldn't say "too obvious," Ginny and Harry are not Hermione and Ron were all there stuff was right out in the open. But Harry never did deny that he didn't have feelings for Ginny, that much is true, because it delovped subconiusly. He didn't think "oh I have feelings for Ginny" till he was afraid that he might not have her. It was forshadowing Muggs, not a giant neon sign.

Looking back, it is a glaring clue. At that time, we are not discussing about any ship yet. But now, how can it not be apparent? Harry was not concerned to Hermione as much as Ron, but Harry went recklessly to face danger just to save Ginny (as "his best friend's sister" of course).
That's the only time Harry won against Voldemort in all six books. It should be a sign for the seventh book: he can win if Ginny is at stake, or if Ginny is somehow nearby, or with the power related to Ginny.
What I miss is a similar clue about Harry/Hermione. There are none. We can wait for the seventh or eighth book for that to happen, but as for now: H/Hr is just as possible as Filch and Bellatrix.

I suppose that if he had romantic feeling for Hermione he would of thought more about her, but Muggs, are you honestly telling me that if Ron or Hermione were in that chamber instead of Ginny, Harry wouldn't of acted the same way.
There are many things that disprove H/Hr but I don't see this as one of them.

If Ron or Hermione were in Chamber, Harry will still do his best to save them, but the characteristic sadness and bonds will be different.
Ginny has no direct friendship with Harry, but when she was missing, Harry felt that it probably was the worst day of his life. (That didn't happen when Hermione was Petrified, who knows for how long). Harry felt angry when Tom started to recite Ginny's diary (He was not that angry when Draco insulted Hermione). Basically Harry unconsciously treated Ginny as part of him despite the label "best friend's sister", he took it much too personal, and didn't know for sure why until HBP.
That kind of major foreshadowing is very much prepared to deny H/Hr.

That's pretty much true. But H/Hr has been shunted to the side every time. I think it was clear H/Hr wasn't going to happen was in the 4th book. They both denyed it and Harry thought it was completely crazy.

Of course we don't know what Hermione was thinking, probably along the lines of "Oh my god, how can people think that! Well, we do hang out a lot, so i can see where they're coming from, but that's still a crazy idea!" Hermione would be the one to look at it from others point of view.



This is also shown in the movie. When Malfoy said he hoped it was hermione who died in CoS, Harry had to hold Ron back. And we all know that they only put important things in the movie. So why put in something as trivial as to have Harry not caring in the slightist?

Because they don't want to give non-readers the wrong idea. H/Hr is not meant to be.

Absolutely right. The movies actually are being screened to show H/Hr close friendship but remove the romance. To make sure non-readers understand, they even include scenes not found in the books, like the hug and hand-shake or the hand-grabbing. H/Hr is not intended in the movies.

I am totally Harry/Ginny. I used to favor H/Hr, but then...well, I stopped. I'm pretty sure that Ron and Hermione are meant to be together, but in the way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way...(I could go on like this forever, but I'm afraid of being kicked off or something) back of my brain, I think ol' Jo is gonna put some sort of twist in there somewhere. The thing that makes me mad is that the movies (at least up to PoA) are going in a H/Hr direction, while the books go opposite. I don't know, but what d'you guys think?

Yeah JediWeaselWitch, they sort of go opposite ways, don't they? But then there's those little things like i mentioned (I'll just quote myself here):




So we can be sure that they are at leats trying not to give that false hope. If H/Hr was meant to be, it'd be in the movies. (We all know only important stuff is in the movies).

I think the sharing of the screen-time among the trio causes wrong impressions. The books clearly recorded the boys to share the most time together, but in the movies, that would mean less screentime for Hermione. Increasing Hermione's time could not be filled by casting her alone with Ron, because that would give away Jo's mysterious pairings too early. By having Hermione more with Harry, the screenwriter originally might think to be a safe bet. Harry and Hermione were clearly not dating. Most of the screentime together were in distress. However, the screenwriters also sneaked in some scenes to specifically predict Ron and Hermione.
Movie 1: Ron and Hermione waiting in balcony for Harry. Ron and Hermione stepped on the train, while Harry being alone on the platform, at the end of the movie.
Movie 2: The hug and shakehand
Movie 3: Hand grabbing. Draco's remark about finding a home.

Objective watching of the movies will not give H/Hr at all. It already hinted R/Hr early on, with H/G still in the shadow, except in Movie 2.

I think we can all see how h/hr might happen in the first couple of books, but since then, it has become more prevelent that h/hr is the wrong SHIP. I completely agree with every post made here. Harry and Hermione are better off as friends. If Harry and Hermione ever got together, Ron would be crushed, and the whole trio would be completely awkward. I must say that I was once a h/hr supporter, but now I see/know that they will never end up together. I think we can all recall when Hermione greeted Harry in the great hall (after everything was resolved, i believe in the 1st or 2nd book) like an old friend, and she greeted ron like an astranged x-lover. THere will alwayd be signs leaking between the pages that h/hr will not happen. Even JKR has stated it herself.


Kindly,
HUffelpuff Kate.

That is completely true. I can now see where the directors are coming from! I personally feel it should be more of the trio together, but hey.

The the hug and handshake in movie 2 always striked me as anti-H/Hr. If Hermione can greet Harry with a hug after being petrified for months on end without any embaressment, doesn't that just show the true bond of their friendship?

If they were really destined to be, then don't you reakon the'd be some sort of tension, like with the handskake between Ron and Hermione? (But that's going onto R/Hr, and here's not the place for that, so i'll leave it out).

But yeah, overall, H/Hr is just not going to happen.

Fine, fine, I won't argue anymore about this one.

Welcome JediWeaselWitch. I think that if you look at the movies as a whole, you see Harry and Hermione as friends and siblings more than lovers. Because, to keep this round of words going, when you like someone there's a certain amount of awkwardness, especially at the age of 11-14. When Harry and Hermione are holding hands, I'll talk about the third movie, it's to help the other go faster, or the hold or to them so the other doesn't get lost, or to help the other up, or to protect the other. It's because of necessity that they cling to the other, and not any other reason.
Kscimeca, I considered Harry and Hermione as well, but logic pointed me to Ron and Hermione.

Speaking strictly from the movies, it's hard to shake old habit. Once there is a hero and then a girl who is close to the hero, most of the time the hero gets the girl. That's especially true for a short movie without sequels, because there is little time to show otherwise. Jo Rowling definitely doesn't follow the trend, and also, her series doesn't consist of one single movie. It's a progression of mystery-style story. Who will end up with Harry is not uncovered in the beginning but towards the end. The girl who is prominently shown (= Hermione) is not going to be with Harry. There is another girl who has been there in all movies on the author's insistence. Even with only one seemingly unimportant phrase like: "Good luck" or "Look!", Ginny has to be shown in the movies. That's more the mystery style. H/Hr is not in the author's plan at all.

Right, it's has nothing to do with romance. I'lll bring up my favorite Harry/Hermione part of any movie. It's the "I'm scared for you sceen." It shows what they really are. Hermione says a something kinda dirty without thinking about it, and Harry and her laugh easly. If Harry had feelings for her, he would of been, at least a little uncomfterble.

Besides, the carefully chosen words: "I'm scared for you" indicated a friendship worry. Hermione clearly defined her position not as a part of Harry's life, but as an observer into Harry's life. She values Harry as a friend, and considered all things that could happen to him. She concluded that the prognosis is not good for Harry. Were Ron there, Hermione could say "We are scared for you" as naturally as she said at the end of OOP or HBP (always speaking about herself and Ron as "we" and "us" without hesitation).
This scene is pretty much void of H/Hr indication, other than to show a strong friendship between Harry and Hermione within the trio.

JKR herself has stated that H/HR WILL NEVER HAPPEN. When it comes straight from the author, you know it's true . When I saw the 1st movie, I must say that I was a H/HR shipper, but after reading every book and rewatching every movie over and over, it is quite clear that H/HR is not going to happen. Harry loves Ginny!

Kindly,
Hufflepuff Kate

Hello there Kscimeca, and welcome, if I had not said so before.
Muggs, I'd say the Hermione is a big part of Harry's life, because Harry is sadly without any blood ties expect for the Dursleys, but I don't think he really sees them as family. Hermione is the big sister/mother that checks that Harry did his homework, gives him advice on girls, and what other wise advise she despences. Ron is the silly and sweet father/brothery type that lets their kids sneek cookies even though the mother said it would spoil their supper.

Ellen, that's a good comparison. The younger Mr. & Mrs. Weasley took care of little Harry Potter, just like Arthur and Molly did. Well, that certainly ruled out any possibility of H/Hr.

Awww, i can see it now ...

Anywho, on topic here, i agree that the whole Holding hands thing is for confort. A reassurence that the other is right there beside them. The two have a close bond, and nothing would tear that apart. Overall, they're great friends and the hoding hands and the "I'm scared for you" line shows that.

But lovers? I don't think so.



I agree with you there, amyrat. This is most definatly anti-H/Hr. I think i will go watch GoF again now ...

With each movie, there are more and more anti H/Hr evidence. It's never there in the first place. Movies took a slightly different path than the books, due to time constraint, but eventually movies confirm the books. No H/Hr!

I believe the reason that there has ever seemed like there has been any Harry/Hermione romance in the films is because of Dan and Emma's natural chemistry. I'm not saying that they're bound for a relationship themselves, but I think you can really tell when two actors get along because of how they interact on screen, even while in character. They are also both relatively young, so it may be easier to spot.

The movies don't really matter as much though Jo "has her say" in them. It's what she writes on paper is what happens. Things are twisted in the movies for movies sake...like the "I will not break rules" or whatever that lame saying is. I apreciate the movies a lot...not even gonna lie about that. But since we have the books, and since the movies aren't going to change anything in the books, there's not much to worry about there.

Plus, there's always just the undeniable fact that Harry doesn't like Hermione and Hermione doesn't like Harry...

I most definatly think that could be the reason. They have good chemistry, and it definatly shows on screen.

But overall, it's what's in the books that counts (Plus stuff that JKR says) so really, the movies are just movies. nothing more. It's true, they are really good, but not so good when it comes to canon. lol.

In other words, H/Hr in the movies is never going to happen in the books, and generaly isn't in the books.

Thank you Muggs, I know that I am very wise.
Right, I love the movies too. I, like many people, started reading the books because of the movies. And understood from the nonhug in CoS that Hermione and Ron had the feelings, not Harry and Hermione, which I assumed because he's the main guy character, she's the main girl.

Now we know more about Movie 5 and also from the actors/actresses, it should be clear that the movie will not go to H/Hr at all. Ron and Hermione have been slowly developed from Book 2 and even now in movie 5, they were shown together, even in the scene where they were not together in the book, like visiting Grawp. I can see that Movie 6 will even bolder than the book, because of shorter time available for R/Hr. In short, the movies are becoming more obvious to be anti H/Hr.

Eew Harry and Hermione. That's a weird pairing. Then again I'm not a Hermione Ron shipper either but anyway.
I've never seen any evidence for this ship and it seems to me they have more of a brother/sister relationship then boyfriend/girlfriend. Hermione never argues with Harry like she does with Ron who she seems to like and she didn't make any effort to go to the Yule Ball with him like she did with Krum. So yeah I don't think H/HR will ever happen.

A good point there. Hermione indeed not bothered by Harry not having a Yule Ball partner. She only concerned why Ron didn't ask her. To confirm this, the author again put the two in book 6 looking for partner. Even as Ron was not available, Hermione never thought of asking Harry as her partner, and neither did Harry. No way H/Hr will happen.

I 100% agree! I mean, really, their friendship is so strong in that scene, and Hermione's true feelings for Harry shine: friendship! They aren't going to be anymore than friends because they are friends and they don't feel anything romantic or compulsive for eachother!



At the beginning, I wasn't a H/Hr shipper, but I thought it would be cool. I think that died in Book Three because it is clearly obvious that they aren't meant to be and that they have no chemistry. Just because she is a girl and he is a boy and they're best friends does not mean they have to end up together! It would be my two favorite characters making a ship, true, but it just doesn't work in reality.



That is so true, Droobles! I mean, really, Dan and Emma are really close now because of all the experience they have both had and also, they can relate to whatever the other is experiencing. That just really is nice to have, and that definitely shows.

And here here to the second part!



I wouldn't exactly say that Hermione was bothered because Ron didn't ask her. At that point, they really hadn't payed much attention to eachother, but they were friends. I think that the attitude of "Oh yeah! And there's you if no one else" attitude ticked her off. Anyway, a little off topic, back to the point.

Yeah; Hermione really never thought about Harry in that way, so she certainly didn't feel akward around him when that time came around. She knew he liked Cho, and she was having plenty of other ideas in her head besides the best friend date concept.

Another thing is that if H/Hr was going to happen, it would have happened already! You never really realize how many times Rita (that stupid "Harry Potter's secret heartache" article) and Hogwarts students have said crude things about them and how they should go out, yet that just makes H/Hr angry at them, not at eachother! They really just get annoyed with everyone thinking of that, but there is no awkwardness between them. Does that make any sense?

Thoughts?

CRW

Definatly makes sense, CRW. I think it was at that point i completely discarded H/Hr. I thought that if they were meant to be together, they would have been some-what awkward. But no. As you said, they just got annoyed that people thought they would be together, because the idea is completely crazy!

Nice essay by the way (Lol )

Yep. Imagine: if there had been real chemistry between them, and Harry had felt something for Hermione or viseversa or both of them had felt it, you could imagine how a conversation about their potential would occur! Also, I think that JKR makes hints about most ships does before it happends, and really, this would be momentous with 0 support.

Another thing is that Hr was with Krum! It probably ticked off Hr to have to endure that gossip along with the entire H/Hr idea too. No, it just isn't going to happen! Get over it people! lol.

As for the essay...

Thoughts?

CRW

classicalravenclawwriter, I agree. If Harry had romantic feeling for Hermione, we'd know by now. Some Hermione's actions toward Harry can be seen as romantic, but not when you compair them to how she's acted around Ron.

Adressing those actions, I don't think anyone can honestly think that if they did indeed have feelings for eachother any of that stuff would have happened! For goodness sake, they are teenagers, so if they did like eachother, it isn't like Hermione would go and hug Harry! It just doesn't work like that, especially with teenagers for the most part. The entire idea is absurd.

Thoughts?

CRW

Always love good posting. CRW, thanks for the thoughts. The mindset of adult romance is tried to be applied to Harry and Hermione's friendship. That's not right. They are teenagers who value friendship as high as romance. Once they passed the education stage (Hogwarts, coming of age) they will develop romance more than friendship, meaning building a family life.
I don't see that with H/Hr, because the basis was not there. Harry has set his heart with Ginny, whereas Hermione with Ron. What is left for H/Hr?

Thank you!

QUOTE(muggleview @ Apr 11 2007, 02:58 PM) [snapback]365056[/snapback]

The mindset of adult romance is tried to be applied to Harry and Hermione's friendship. That's not right. They are teenagers who value friendship as high as romance. Once they passed the education stage (Hogwarts, coming of age) they will develop romance more than friendship, meaning building a family life.
I don't see that with H/Hr, because the basis was not there. Harry has set his heart with Ginny, whereas Hermione with Ron. What is left for H/Hr?

Agreed! I mean, really, the only one that comes close to that adult mindset is Hermione because of her amazing use of logic and maturity, but even she is not ready for that huge step. Actually, I think that at their age they (the trio) value friendship higher than romance! I don't think that will change in book 7 either, but it will as they grow up, I suppose. And also, has anyone noticed how much romantic advice Hermione gives Harry? She talks to him about Cho for ages and ages, and she encourages Ginny not to loose hope because she believes in the H/G relationship. If she did feel something, I don't think her personna would allow her to supress it to the extent of giving romance tips. She's good on that stuff, but she cannot be as good on romance as to be able to supress her feelings until a more suitable time.

I was just thinking about that too. Thoughts?

CRW

I agree here, the trio would take friendship over romance any day. They have a strong bond-they can't afford to lose it.



I've always noticed this, and always makes me laugh. If Hermione really did like Harry, then why on earth would she be helping him get off with other girls? Not exactly what you'd be doing if you secretly liked them, would it?

Nope.
Muggs, I agree, that you can't apply adult behavior very easly to teenagers. But it doesn't matter in the first place because Ron and Hermione have sexual feelings toward the other, and Harry and Hermione don't. Passion doesn't last foever, true, but you need to have passion in the first place!

It's different for someone "to like another"or "to like another for oneself". Hermione likes her friends, but not for herself. She likes Harry, but not for herself. Hermione likes Ron for herself, so she was mad when Ron went out with Lavender. She wasn't mad whan Harry went out with the girls. No H/Hr!

muggleview ...I TOTTALY AGREE ...everythink in the book is against H/Hr ...they're just very good friends ..Hermione is also helping H/G ...!!! Dream on !!

Muggs, you confuse me a little, but I think I get what you're saying. Hermione has never shown jealousy toward any of Harry's girlfriends, she frowned when she heard Harry say he kissed Cho, but I think that was because 1) she really didn't like Cho, remeber when Chos said something snippy at the DA meeting at Hog's Head. 2) Was worryed how Harry handeled it 3) Sadness on Ginny's behalf
One of those or all three, whatever.
gin4ever, we're not allowed to talk about H/Hr shippers, in anyway really.