Ok this is a Topic that was started in the griffindor house thread that we thought should be in here for everyone to disscuss. and so we don't get in trouble for disscussing it there and not here as well

[quote name='prince_halfblood_22' date='Oct 10 2006, 02:06 PM' post='238216']
yes, lozza-cm, I too wouldn't want Jo to put some stupid thing that Luna is right about, that would be a waiste of book space, and the poor delapitated trees. Also, I would like for the Heliopath, theory to be true. Of course I want the Veil idea to be true, but I really think that Jo wont make sirius come back, even if she puts that Luna was right about the veil. What I think, is once you are trapped by the veil, you are trapped for good. There could be one thing that can get a person out of the veil though, and that is that locked door in the DoM. Why do I think this, you say. Hm, well, I think it odd for Luna to know what is behind the door, and what the deal is with the veil, especially since I think that they encounter the door, right before they go into the Death Chamber. I have another question relating to the circular room with all the doors. see, when you shut a door, the room started to revolve, they say that it was to make any adventurers lose their way. See, what I noticed, what when they went to a room then back to the circular room Jo says that an image with in the room they just visited was in harrys mind and wouldnt leave. I'll quote two of these circumstances:

" How're we going to get back out?" said Neville, uncomfortablely.

"Well that doesn't matter now," said Harry forcefully, blinking to try and erase the blue lines from his vision,

So they hurried back into the dark, circular room; the ghostly shapes of the brains were now swimming before harry's eyes instead of the blue candle flames.

Okay, Feedback Please!!

Thanks,

~~Prince~~
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[quote name='lozza-cm' date='Oct 10 2006, 04:50 PM' post='238270']
[quote]There could be one thing that can get a person out of the veil though, and that is that locked door in the DoM. [/quote]prince_halfblood_22, I Think you are 100 percent right about that..BUT..It's got nothing to do with Luna..We all ready know what is behind the door dumbledore told us it's...LOVE!...so thats why i think your right, the only this powerful enough to bring people back from behind the veil is LOVE, which coinsedently is Harry's strongest power!
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[quote name='prince_halfblood_22' date='Oct 10 2006, 09:25 PM' post='238303']
Yea, your right there, lozza. See, I forgot that Dumbledore did say that Love was behind the door. We know from lupin, that Dumbledore's shrewd ideas, are normally facts. They end up turning out to be true. Lupin says this in OotP, when him, Mr. Weasley, Tonks, Bill, and Sirius, were telling Harry about the Order, and what they did, and so forth. What if, this time, Dumbledore, was, persay, wrong? I surely hope not. Now, I haven't gotten any replies about my last question in my last post. I really would like some insight on that. Okay, you know what time it is? Feedback Time!!

Thanks,

~~Prince~~
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[quote name='HP_RULES!' date='Oct 11 2006, 07:15 AM' post='238558']
I'll talk about it with you Prince. Is the theory you want feedback on the one about the door being the way out of the veil? I don't think that is right for one because of Luna. She and Harry heard the voices of people from beyond the veil, so, don't you think that if they could get out through the door then they would hear voices around the locked door? I would assume that the wizards trapped inside would want to get out so they would be waiting by the exit, unless of course they didn't know what it was. Then of course it brings about the question why the people in the DoM would want to keep them locked in there. I am still 100% sure that the room will be significant, especially because of what DD said about it containing love, I just don't think it would let the people from the veil out. It could contain a way to contact the trapped wizards though. About your second question, I don't know what you were asking so if you could clear that up for me I'd be honored to talk about that with you too. Then there is the DoM place that you could talk about stuff like that there too if you want more then me to comment. So, yeah, I guess that's about it! Hope that is what you wanted feedback on!
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[quote name='prince_halfblood_22' date='Oct 11 2006, 08:38 AM' post='238600']
about the door, RULES, they would not nessicarily of heard voices around the door. the door could have simplely had an impervious charm on it. incidentally, this could have also been what melted the knife. see in the begining of the book, we learn that that charm, prevents anything from entering the door. Like, sound waves, solid objects, and so forth. See, harry was able to slip it in the cracks, because, the knife was metal. so then the knife was being forced to do something it shouldnt be able to do, therefore, the doors charm, made the knife melt. see what i am saying here? Feedback Please!!

Thanks,

~~Prince~~
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[quote name='lozza-cm' date='Oct 11 2006, 08:45 AM' post='238605']
prince, I see What you mean, but i dont think it was an impervious Charm on the door we learn in Grimrald place that if there is an impervious charm on a door you can't fit things under the cracks (extendable ears) so why would the side of the door be any different? also when ginnny flicked things at the door with the impervious charm on it back in grimrald place they flew away from the door meanin g nothing can make contact with it. but yet the one in the DoM harru's knife makes contact.
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[quote name='HP_RULES!' date='Oct 11 2006, 08:52 AM' post='238608']
Why would they put the charm on the door but not the veil? If they knew that wizards had been trapped behind the veil and they could get out of the door then why wouldn't they save them all? I am sure that someone can open that door considering the fact that the DoM was created by wizards, someone had to have made the veil and the door. I don't understand why they would put the impervious charm on one but not the other if they understood that they were somehow intertwined. Did they invent the veil there? I always thought that maybe it was something that they found and brought in, in which case they couldn't be connected because they couldn't have found a room, they would have had to make that. Ok, well, now I am confusing myself! On one hand I think that they can't be connected, but Jo did put them both in the story and I think that they are both important so it would be easier to encorporate into the story if they were connected. I will have to think about this and get back to you! Oh wait, one more thought, if Sirius's knife was as powerful as I imagined then I don't think an impervious charm would melt it. At the most the door just wouldn't open, I really don't think that spell is that powerful. I always thought it was more the love inside the room that melted the knife.

Edit: Oh, and there is always what lozza-cm said about the knife not being able to make contact with the door!
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[quote name='prince_halfblood_22' date='Oct 11 2006, 08:53 AM' post='238609']
lozza, the extendables, were not, solid. They were made of some type of string if i remember right. The knife was rigid, the extendables, were flimsey, i am not mistaken. So, could the knife be an exception? Also, harry had the knife in his hands, jabbing it into the cracks of the door. With the dungbombs, Ginny was just throwing them, so, wasnt realy putting her full bodily force behind them. there, hope that clears things up a bit. I have a comment for what could be behind that door, what if it isnt love. what if the veil traps people in a room behind it, and if the right person comes along, and unlocks the locked door, they will find all the people that LV has killed, or has been killed in his causes. See, DD himself, says in HBP, that a tyrrants worse fear, are those he/she oppresses. this is because, if one of the oppressed, rises against the tyrannt, and many ally with the rebel, then the tyrannt would be in mortal danger. This may be the weapon to defeat LV, and it may be behind that door! Feedback Please!!

Also, the question i wanted answered, was not about the door, RULES. It was about this:

I have another question relating to the circular room with all the doors. see, when you shut a door, the room started to revolve, they say that it was to make any adventurers lose their way. See, what I noticed, what when they went to a room then back to the circular room Jo says that an image with in the room they just visited was in harrys mind and wouldnt leave. I'll quote two of these circumstances:

" How're we going to get back out?" said Neville, uncomfortablely.

"Well that doesn't matter now," said Harry forcefully, blinking to try and erase the blue lines from his vision,

So they hurried back into the dark, circular room; the ghostly shapes of the brains were now swimming before harry's eyes instead of the blue candle flames.<This quote, is found in the OotP, US version, page 771-772.>
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[quote name='lozza-cm' date='Oct 11 2006, 09:04 AM' post='238618']
I Dont think the logic science applys to the knife i mean it being solid, i mean the charm says NOTHING can penitrate it not NOTHING CAN PENITRATE IT, Except solid metal objects but i see what you mean. but about the question you want answerd i know what your talking about but i dont understand what the question is do you want to know if harry had a connection to those places because they stayed in his memory?
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[quote name='prince_halfblood_22' date='Oct 11 2006, 09:40 AM' post='238629']
I just wanted to know if this is significant, and if it is, what theories, may be spawnned from it? I mean, that is a bit weird, isnt it, harry having the brains swimming in front of his eyes, when going back to the circular room, and the blue fire being burnt into his vision. Also, what would he of seen if he went right from the veil room, to the circle room, Jo dont say. what whould he of seen if he would have went from the timeturner room to the circular room, and what would he of saw, if he would have went from the astronomy room to the dark circular room? would any of these be significant, what theories would spawn from them?
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[quote name='lozza-cm' date='Oct 11 2006, 10:02 AM' post='238640']
I don't think there is anything significant about things being burned into harry vision, i think it was just the contrast between the bright colours and the dark circular room and it was just another one of JKR's beautiful discriptive writting...BUT...i being and open minded Harry potter theoriest could be persuaded into prince's way of thinking if more evidence is provided!!!
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[quote name='prince_halfblood_22' date='Oct 11 2006, 10:08 AM' post='238646']
Okay, ill add more. Okay, if he came back to the dark circular room from the Death room, then would harry hear voices more clearly. it seems that because of the brilliance of each room, and then, the dullness<darkness/quietness> of the circular room, makes things seen, heard, or even felt, more clearly or sensitively. Maybe that is the function of the circular room, a room for clairvoyance. Each of the main rooms could stimulate the sences of the mind body, and heart. Then, the circular room could act as a place that is for meditation of the rooms that were just visited, before going back to the dark circular room.Feedback Please!!

Thanks,

~~Prince~~
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[quote name='MyBroomstickIsBetterThanYours' date='Oct 11 2006, 10:09 AM' post='238649']
Hmm... I don't know if it'd be significant, but it's be interesting to hear about all those visions or things he'd seen. If JKR hadn't said it at the time, it probably hasn't come across as revelant yet, but she might go more into detail about the rooms in the seventh book.
What I always wondered about the circular room was... why didn't they just leave the door open and go to the next one? Could you only have one open at a time??
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[quote name='lozza-cm' date='Oct 11 2006, 10:14 AM' post='238650']
I think the doors closed by them selves..and also i think we might be told to move off this topic soon as it probably should be disscussed in the DOM thread so this is that last thing i am going to say...i think Prince may have a point about the circular room but i am reserving judgment on it untill the last book, but at the moment i think the whole place is just overly magical and that room being at the centure of it all it would be at the centure of all the magic making it more reactive to the sences.
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hope it is easy to follow!!!

I dont think it was just because of its extensive magical natures, lozza. It has alot to do with what i am saying, i think. You see, I have something to add, about the deal with the voices behind the veil, and my theory that they may have been heard more clearly once going back into the dark circular room. What if it did happen, and heard the voices, just as clearly as though the people behind that veil, were right by him talking into his ear? Were they trying to warn him, that Sirius wasnt really kidnapped and was a trap of LVs? Or, were they trying to tell him how to open the locked door? Were they trying to tell him, what was behind the door? Okay, Feedback Please!!

Thanks,

~~Prince~~

I never thought about the possibility that they were trying to warn harry or give him infomation. but it could well be true...But..i don't thinkk they were trying to warn harry once he was back in the circular room..Jo's style of writting is leave suttle hints so when the plot eventually unfolds we think ahh..how did we miss that..i don't think harry would have heard voices if Jo didn't write that he did...But i think you are right about the warning thing..i mean all of harry's family are behind that viel (if it really is the spirit world as i think it is) and if they weren't trying to warn him then they would be telling him about the door (and i think this is the main possablitly and here are my reasons...:

It was the only room that wasn't opend (or able to be opend) and dumbledore gives us additional infomation about the door latter on in the story when it really had nothing to do with what harry and DD were talking about..it was something along the lines of..

"you have power that the dark lord know not"
"But i dont!"
"You do, harry you can Love"
"Big deal"
"Harry there is a door in the DoM that is locket at all times because what is behind it is so powerful, it's love'

....

Ok so it's not word for word because once again i am doing this from memory but that is basicly what he said..now i know that the door comes into it because of the love factor but he could have used anything the show harry how powerful love he...he could have pointed out that his mothers love for him is the reason he is alive..but no he mentions the door...BUT WHY?...it's because it is important and i think it will have alot to do with the final battle and harry defeating voldermort...i have a long theory and i have time so i will write it out...

Harry finds a way to contact Sirius say the mirrors?...sirius is behind the viel so he would have the imfomation about the veil that the other voices have and he tells harry ...harry goes back there gets in the room defeats Voldy and blacks out...when he comes to he is standing in front of the veil and he realises he is dead and he has to walk through the veil to the spirit world and is reunited with his family, dumbledore and sirius oh and ginny because i think she will die early in the book.

So basicly i think...yes the voices were trying to help harry..but no he couldn't hear them in the circular room.

That is an interesting theory lozza. Do you have it posted in the forum about the veil? I would like to hear more about it.

Anyhow, concerning the circular room, the question of what Harry might see if he came from a certain room into a circular room is not one we can answer. I guess that he would see the contents of the room spinning as he entered the circular room.

I have a question concerning the veil. It seems that only Harry and Luna heard the voices. Is that because they were the only ones who could see thestrals?

To answer your veil question, Burial, it wasnt only Harry and Luna who heard the voices behind the veil. Hold on ill find the exact quote...Ah yes, here it is:

" That's what I've been trying to-well, come on, then!" said Hermione, and she led the way back around the dais. On the other side, Neville and Ginny were staring, appearently entranced at the veil too.

This is in the US version of the OotP, page 775, three or four paragraphs from the top.

So, there you have it, Neville and Ginny were probably hearing the whispering behind the veil too.

Well Ginny just goes and spoils the theory then doesn't she because i was about to go ...ahh yes but nevile can see thestrals too..actually i no it's a very long shot but has it actually ever said that ginny can't see thestrals..i mean she wasn't in the class so she could say whether or not she could.

This probably shouldt go in this thead, but im going to throw it out there anyway. See, when harry destroys the diary horcrux, he techinally kills LV, doesnt he? Well, if he does, then does this mean he witnessed a death<of part of Voldemort's soul>? If it does mean that, then why doesnt he see the thestrals in his 4th year, at the begining of it i mean? I dont think that Ginny has ever witnessed a death till her 4th year Lozza. She i think witnesses sirius' death. She is a 4th year, and harry is in 5th year. so, maybe she can see the thestrals, in her 5th year, harry's 6th year. Feedback Please!!

Thanks,

~~Prince~~

I never had the impression that Ginny was in the veil room i always thought that she was back with the others ijured but your right she might have been there and she might have witnessed it...but...that happend after people heard the voices in the viel room. i don't think that when harry destroys the diary horcrux counts as death because a horcrux is just a part of a soul and a person can "live" without their soul (eg after a demtors kiss)..

Ah, now that last comment of yours, it raises an alarm in my mind! Okay, if a person can "Live" without his/her soul, then can this mean that as long as LV stays in hiding, he can still be alive, even if all his horcruxes are destroyed? You see, this wouldnt matter to LV, because, if his body was able to walk, breathe, kill, and hate, then i think that he still would do so. This is scary, because, this means that LV, may never be defeated. Wow, sometimes I even amaze myself! Feedback Please!!

Thanks,

~~Prince~~

Thankfully it doesn't work like that...YES a person can live with out their soul they can breath, and all the organs work. but they don't have any emotions so LV couldn't hate and wouldn't walk around as he wouldn't see the point because you have to be motivated to walk to go somewhere...LV would not have that motivation so he would just sit there. and destroyig the horcruxes is only half the job their is a part of soul still in voldermortso it wouldn't matter if harry killed all his horcruxes he could still live if he went into hidding as he would still have part of his soul.

Ah yes, I read through this again and see my error.

Didn't JK say in interviews that to only 'see' death is not enough. The person must also 'know' death (or something like that). So, Ginny could have watched Sirius fall through the veil (I thought she was not there, I thought only Neville and Harry were there) but still not see thestrals? Would Sirius's death register with her as it did Harry?

Here are two related questions: If Neville could not see thestrals before, would he have been able to after watching Sirius fall through the veil?

AND

Did Harry 'see' Quirrell die? If I remember it correctly, Harry passed out and THEN Voldemort left him. That was when Quirrell died.

Remember that the movie and book are different.

Yes, I see the significance, in your post, Burial. Harry wouldnt have seen thestrals, anyway, in his second year. Him and Ron, both arrived late, if i remember right. Yes, I remember now, they arrived in the charmed Ford Angelo. Also, i am not for sure if Ginny was in the Death Chamber, when Sirius died, or not. What seems weird to me, though, is that Harry still want able, to do the Crutiatus curse, to Bella, in the Atrium. He absolutely hated her for what she had just done, to his only father figure, that was left. Yet, Bella, says that Harry was still using, a type of, Riteous Anger, or vengeance. Hm, riteous or not, it was still hatred, wasnt it, then Harry most certainly was meaning to cause pain, because, of the pain that this woman, standing in front of him, has just caused him. Feedback Please!!

Thanks,

~~Prince~~

Harry's anger was a burst of hatred. To perform the Cruciatus Curse, I think you need to have a slow, consuming hatred. Not just a desire to cause pain, but the desire to cause constant unendurable pain. Do you see my distinction?

This is an interesting topic. I don't really know what I think yet. I'll post more after I think about it some more.

Im not sure if I do Burial. He also hates Snape, yet, do you think that Harry would be able to work the Crutiatus, on him? Do you think that Neville, may be able to work it on Bella? She did addle his mum/dad's brains you know, with the same exact curse. I myself, think that he very well could want to cause, prolonged excrutiating pain to Bella. Also, do you think that Harry would now have more of a urge to cause such pain to Snape, seeing him kill DD the way he did? Feedback Please!!

Thanks,

~~Prince~~

I believe Bella told Harry that in order to perform the Cruciatus you have to enjoy causing people pain. In other words I think you have to be sadistic to the core. I don't believe Neville or Harry are that way. At least I would hope not. You would have to be some kind of monster to get enjoyment out torturing someone. Also, I think I noticed where there was some question as to who can see the Thestrals. Harry could because of witnessing Cedrics death the year before, Luna watched her mother die, (May be why she is so spacey. Maybe being spacey helps her cope) and Neville said something about his grandfather if I"m not mistaken. I'll have to double check that info.

Yes Nevile saw his grandfather die. and yes you have to want to cause pain to perform the Cruciatus curse.. but i do think that nevile and harry have the pertensial to perform it...if they hate someone enough and want revenge on them enough to put the, through the pain that they and their familys have gone through t think they are capable of performing it.

Okay, let me try to set this out as I think of it.

To perform the Cruciatus Cruse, the caster must have the desire to cause intense, unendurable pain. Harry had this when he used it against Bella. To torture someone using it, you must also enjoy causing them pain (in addition to the hatred). Much in the same manner that the dementors enjoy tormenting their victims.

So, when torturing someone using the Cruciatus Curse, the caster must have a burning, lasting hatred for the person as well as the desire and enjoyment for causing them pain.

Personally, I do not think Neville or Harry would be able to torture someone like that. They have both felt the pain caused by crucio. They would enjoy defeating their enemies, but watching someone suffer at their mercy is not in their natures.

Good point Burial. I dont think that harry nor neville would actually enjoy torturing a humanbeing. Im not completely sure, but he may have the capacity to do it to LV. Think of the pain he has caused harry. If it werent because of LV, Harry would still have his parents, sirius, and dumbledore. He most certainly could do it LV. See, really I dont concider LV to be human. A human is mortal, and LV most certainly isnt mortal, he is in the most evil way, immortal. Think with harrys brain, and feel his emotions with his heart for a moment. Okay, your mum, dad, last thing close to a dad, and most powerful and respected mentor, have been killed by the hands<wand> of LV, the man standing in front of you, laughing shrilly, and mocking you. What would you do? I would use the curse. I would want him to feel more pain than all the people he caused pain on. Actually, i would use a few muggle techniques of torture while I was at it. Now think of what would have been, if LV was never born. You would have your parents, metor, and godfather. You could have the chance to laugh, cry, eat, drink, and celebrate with them. Also, your dad, who happens to be a quidditch finatic, would come to every single one of your gryffindore matches, and cheer for you to beat the pulp out of the opposing team. Feedback Please!!

Thanks,

~~Prince~~

Thats what i was getting at prince, harry could do it to LV because he is barely human, but he isn't immortal but anyway i thnk harry can justify himself in doing it, death just wouldn't be a good enough punishment for LV like dumbledore said "their are worse things then death, tom" he was even saying this to LV...so i don't thnk he counts...i have however changed my mind about bellatrix, i dont think harry or nevlie would be able to cause pain to her even if she does deserve it...the whole violence against women...and how men shouldn't hurt women..i know it is a stearo type but it is built into all 'desent' men (which harry and nevile are)

If I put myself in Harry's shoes I'm not sure I would be able to use the Cruciatus. I would want him to suffer but instead of feeling pleasure I would probably feel empty. I like the idea of muggle torture though.

Yes, Dreamwalker, LV would absolutely deserve what was coming to him. Did you mean, that once you put yourself in Harry's position, that you would think the Crutiatus, just wouldn't be enough pain for him to endure, concidering the pain he has put upon Harry, his whole life? Is this what you were getting to? If so, then I would have to agree with you. No pain that LV would have to endure, would compensate for what Harry has endured. Oh, just thought I would throw this in. The man standing in front of you, tortured you, for 17 years, and in your 4th year at Hogwarts, he actually did the Crutiatus, before he attempted to kill you. This reminds you of a cat, playing with a mouse, before eating it. It is another form of mockery and torture. I would want more pain brought on this man, than all the pain that can be mustered in the whole universe, wouldn't you? Feedback Please!!

P.S. I think we just found another idea for a polling thread. Title: How much Pain Would Suffice for What LV Has Done? Description: Is Death Enough In Your Oppinion?

Polling Choices
Crutiatus Curse

Crutiatus with the mixing of Muggle Torture

See Preceeding, but with death added

Death with no Torture Preceeding it
Thanks,

~~Prince~~

I would want Voldemort to feel more pain than is describable but I don't think it would be a pleasurable experiance. I really think pleasure is the key to the Cruciatus. Bellatrix doesn't torture because of anger, she actually enjoys it. She is one sick person but not entirely far fetched. There are a lot of criminals in our world who feel no remorse for what they do to others. Some even take it one step further and that's when you really get into those who are disgustingly sick in their minds. I could be being harsh with Bella but I think she is the most sick and twisted individual I've seen to still be human. I don't consider Voldemort human. I think you would have to be as sick and twisted as she is in order to use the curse. It's hard to fathom and explain what I mean. My husband didn't get what I was saying either. Let me pm a mod about what I'm trying to say because as a mother of a 3 year old I'm not sure it would be appropriate discussion in the forum. Let me know if you want me to pm about to you. I have an 11 year old niece and if she were on this site I would feel uncomfortable explaining this term to her.

I pm'd one of the Mods for assistance with this. Thanks for being patient with me.

yes, go ahead and owl me when you get the approval from a Mod or Admin. It is interesting to know how people would feel if they were put into harry or neville's shoes. I dont think that harry is twisted, but I think he would make the exception with LV and Bella, to use the Crutiatus Curse. He may enjoy torturing those two people, in a scense of revenge, not just out of being a pure madman. So, I would have to disagree with you, because, anyone could feel this way, I am sure you would even want this to happen if a man has killed your whole family and tortured your bestfriends family. I do agree that he wouldnt have pleasure in it, he would, on the other hand, feel a little bit justified in avenging his parents, sirius, DD, and nevilles family. Feedback Please!!

Thanks,

~~Prince~~

No matter how many times Harry says "crucio" it will be the Bella and the ministry all over again. Harry and Neville are going to have to get creative. I personally like the idea of muggle torture. It would both humiliate and cause pain to Voldemort. He thinks he is above muggles and wizard kind not to mention he loaths deeply muggles I think it is very appropriate. I vote Muggle Torture...

I don't think the muggle torture will happen though LV might deserve it..i think it is to barbarick for JKR to inclue into the story..yes i know people have been killed and people have been put in pain in the books...but...it is from the tip of a wand if someone is killed they fall to the ground and they look unharmed she doesn't have gory deaths and limbs cut off and so on it just isn't her style...notice how bill was sliced up but she didn't discribe it happening (i know that, that's becuae harry wasn't there but she could of worked it into the story so he was but she chose not to) i have so much respect for Jo becuase she has managed to make millions of people hate and be scared of a charactor with out having to resort to gory explanations of how he comits his crimes.

Wow, I love that idea for a new poll. A crowd gives you thumbs up on that one Prince. Even though Harry has suffered so much at the hands of Voldemort, I do not think Harry could torture anyone. You are, of course, perfectly entitled to think otherwise.

Lozza, please do not think I am insulting you in any way, but you hit a pet peeve of mine. In today's society, men and women are 'supposed' to be equal. As you say, no decent man may strike a woman. I am sorry, but this irks me greatly. I have seen too many men who tolerate abusive women, simply because they believe they should not strike a woman. ANY person who wants to start a fight, should accept the consequences.

I know I am a decent guy, but any woman who attacks me better realize that I will not tolerate it. No one has the right to abuse me.

Hey thanks for the compliments, Burial!! Oh, I dont really think that Harry or Neville could torture anyone, or kill anyone. I do have a theory as to what harry may do. Can the Imperious Curse, work on Dementors? If so, then maybe Harry can control one, and then, LV will be kissed and his soul/horcrux will be sucked out as well. This would certainly kill him wouldnt it? Or, is he too evil to be effected by the kiss? Also, instead of using the AK, there are more painful ways to kill. Has anyone heard of the spell that basically turns the body insideout, and makes the skin go to the inside of the body, and the guts, go to the outside of the body, it essentially, kills the person it is done on. The spell is actually called, The Entrail Expelling Curse. It is mentioned in mugglenet somewhere, i think that there is a list of spells in there. JKR, has confirmed, that there is such a curse, invented, and it is a horrendous curse. The victim isnt killed immediately, but has to endure the pain for like, a few minutes, then dies of excessive hemorrage. By the way, Jo has indeed, put some gore in the HP series. In HBp, for example. Remember the Sectumsempra Curse? Jo said that Dracos blood, streamed on the floor, I think. Also, in PoA, there was a good amount of blood that Beaky had caused, by slashing Dracos arm. Feedback Please!!

Thanks,

~~Prince~~

Entrails Yuk!!! I like the way you think Prince. And as a woman I have to agree with Burial on men hitting women. No one male or female deserves to be abused without standing up for themselves. And there are some very nasty curses out there that Harry can draw from. Also lozza, don't forget when Pettigrew cut off his own hand. Fairly gruesome part in GOF. I do agree that overall she keeps gore to a minimum and I like her style. I have a vivid imagination when I read so I enjoy what she doesn't say as much as what she does.

Yeah, I completely forgot about Wormtail in GoF, Dreamwalker. So, this must prove that Jo has included some explicit gorish details in the series. Hm, Poor Draco! He seems to have been hurt more than any other character, besides the main characters. Everything seems to happen to Draco. First, he is slashed by Beaky, then he is punched by Hermione, finally, he is slashed by the Sectumsempra, unknowingly performed by Harry. What I mean by unknowingly, is that Harry didnt know what the curse would do.

Thanks,

~~Prince~~

The Entrail Expelling Curse was first mentioned in Order of the Phoenix. There was a portrait in St. Mungo's depicting the inventor. (This is from memory...I may be wrong.) Anyhow, thinking on this, it is precisely the kind of easter egg JK includes for her foreshadowing.

What is an easteregg? No, I know what a real one is, it is what little tykes hunt on easter, and they have goodies inside them, or it is a hard-boiled egg, that is painted and given out on easter. What is an easteregg in writing terms though? Also, does this mean that you agree that Jo would include in the series, this type of curse? Feedback Please!!

Thanks,

~~Prince~~

Burial, i 100 percent agree with you on the women that hit men should expect it back. i always say to everyone "i dont think men hitting women is right, but..if a women has the guts to go up and smack a man in the mouth she should expect one in return."
i have actually gotten in fights with girls over this as they have hit a guy that i am friends with and he wouldn't hit her back, i fought with her over it and we got in a fight..i am not saying that it is RIGHT that guys don't hit women back i am just saying they rarely do! and i just don't see harry or Nevile could torture a women (even if she is the most discusting evil scum rat women (bellatrix)who deserves it!)

On this man hitting a women, if she hits him first, well I would have to disagree. I just have more respect for women than that. Also, why should I stoop to the immaturity level of that particular woman? It is better to show her that I have my head on my shoulders, and would rather ask her to appologize. If she dont, then, I would take it up with the law, because, that is agrovated battery here in the US. I could hurt her in more ways, emotionally and mentally, than if I were to hit her, and only cause her physical pain. Now to the topic. Hm, Burial, should I put my poll, exctly how I arranged it in the post I put it in? Also, what in the ruddy hell is an easteregg? Feedback Please!!

Thanks,

~~Prince~~

and easter egg is chocolate..if it isn't then i have been misslead for a very very long time

No no no, what are eastereggs, as a writting element? What do they do? What are they for? Why write them? Also, should I make that poll that I have posted in this thread? If so, then should I set it up just as I have in this thread? Feedback Please!!

Thanks,

~~Prince~~

I have no idea about the eastereggs things but someone around here must!...also for the poll thing i think you should... do it! but..not in here you should put it in the polls thread of VTM it's on the main page of the forums because if you put it here then the mod's will only move it anyway!

I know where the Polls Thread is Lozza. I really do think I should get approvall from a mod first though. I dont like starting threads without mod approval. For the eastereggs, can someone who can tell me what they are for and all of that, tell me then? I really want to know, as it is an important thing to know so I can see what suprise this is about our forshadowing topic. Now to our topic. What book in the HP series did Jo mention the Entrails Curse? Just wanting to know, so I can look it up. Also, is it in the US versions, or the UK versions. Which one? Feedback Please!!

Thanks,

~~Prince~~

I feel sorry for Draco. He is product of his environment and it doesn't look like his life will be rosy any time soon. On the easter eggs I'm going to guess that it is something pretty with something unexpected inside. Apply it to writing and you just have a metaphore for foreshadowing. I haven't been out of school that long apparently... Now I could be way off on the egg personally I like to crush my easter eggs but I'm guessing. Oh yes, before I forget, do the poll thing Prince. I hope my theory on Easter eggs helps. Remind me to owl you one...

Okay ill get my approval for the Poll Thread later, I need to do some real life things. You know, its sunday, but not supposed to work on the Sabbath day, but things have gotta be done. House work perhaps, cleaning.

Thanks,

~~Prince~~

Mod Edit: This is off topic. Please comment on the topic of the thread, because this isn't a chat room. Thanks!

Sorry for being absent for so long. I had family festivities to celebrate.

Now, to easter eggs. Like you mention, in reality little kids search for them. Moreover, they are supposed to be treats. In a literary sense, an easter egg is the same thing. It is a piece of information or small scene that is a treat. Typically they have great importance, but are hidden in obvious places. It can also mean a useless piece of information that is nonetheless a fun fact. (Such as Aberforth is the bartender at the Hog's Head.)

JK likes to include many of these. In PS/SS, we learn that Dumbledore had James's invisibility cloak. CoS shows us the Vanishing Cabinet and Hand of Glory at Borgin & Burkes. These are examples of eater eggs.

Will the entrail expelling curse be important? I don't know. Like I said, this is the type of easter egg JK likes to include. It could be very important, or not at all.

If I remember correctly, we learn about the Entrail Expelling Curse in OotP. Specifically, when the trio visit St. Mungo's at Christmas. I believe a portrait showed the wizard who invented it (and was labeled as such).

Burial, and Dreamwalker, thanks for easter egg info. Cheers! Also, for your comment of Aberforth being the Hog's Head bartender, well, this isnt exactly pointless and non informative. We know that Dung, was selling some items that were once Sirius's. It is possible that the locket that was found in the House of Black, could have been sold to old Abe. I wont go into anymore detail about it here, as this topic belongs in the Horcrux thread, not this one. I like this idea of easter eggs though. It adds alot of exciting mystery to a novel. Now, for the Poll Thread, I am getting approval for it now.

Thanks,

~~Prince~~

I should have been more clear. This knowledge is pointless as of right now. We both agree that it could be important. Taking a break back to the man striking a woman topic, I agree that immediate retaliation is not an acceptable solution. One moment of anger is not the same as abuse. I would make it clear that I would not accept her actions before acting against them.

okay, I have owled a mod, to request approval of the Polls Thread, we were thinking of. It was a good idea for a poll, though. I have reread through that post, and see the brilliance in it. Now for the real topic at hand, oh no, I have forgotten it already. I mean the one about the circular room. Would one of you be as so kind to me, and refresh my memory about this topic?

Thanks,

~~Prince~~

Mod Edit: Erm, can you please stay on topic? The poll you want to open has nothing to do with this topic, and if you want your memory refreshed, read through the previous posts. Others don't have to repeat themselves because you have forgotten what they said.

The reason this whole thread was started was so we could disscuss the cicular room and if it was significant becuase harry had visions of the other room in there and if the circular room hightend harry sences or something to that effect.

I don't think that is the case buit i do think that we will revisit the room in the last book i mean we need to see the love room...if love is harry power over old voldy then harry will eventually go back there and finish him off!

I was reading through the Department of Mysteries section again. Perhaps I overlooked something, but Harry never noticed that the circular room affected anyone else. Harry needed to shake the images from his mind. Why is it that no one else needed to do so?

Some people record things in their mind quicker than others. Harry seems to be very visual anyway as in he has a "pictoral" imagination. One example is the clarity of his dreams. Maybe a balance for having bad vision as I do and yet I also pick things up visually in my mind that others do not. Doc, my husband, seems to pick up on things auditorily

That makes sense. But if the room was full of spinning lights, it would be difficult to ignore them, even if you are an auditory learner. Harry does have a vivid mental imagination. This could be why it affected him more than others, but why is it that seemingly no one else was affected?

Burial, the reason it didnt effect the others the same way as it did Harry, is because, Jo tells the story, in Harrys perspective. Its like she is narrating from the inside Harrys brain. She always tells the reader, what Harry sees, and thinks. In this perspective, we dont know what the other characters are thinking or seeing, unless Jo says otherwise. This is the reason behind why the others didnt react to the circular room the same way that Harry did. They probably did see blue candle flames burnt into their vision, and also seen the brains floating before their vision. I hope this answered you question, as it does make more sence to say this.

Thanks,

~~Prince~~

I know exactly what you are saying Prince. But why didn't Harry notice the others' reactions? Do you think it was because the lights bothered him too much or because he was preoccupied with finding Sirius?