ok so i know they are brothers because they both have fawkes' feather in them

what i was actually wondering is why voldemorts wands contains fawkes phoneix (sp) feather

we all know that the wand chooses the wizard, now why would a wand with fawkes feather who is DDs bird and good and pure choose LV who was the most evil wizard ever i mean he was kind of evil when he was 11 so the wand would have known he was bad

also he had no connection with harry at this point, because he wasnt born, trelawney hadnt made her prediction and DD wasnt very important to LV he was just a teacher

so we know harrys wand chose him because it felt LVs presence in him and because harry is pure and good and turns out to be DDs favourite student (i presume thats why it chose him)

so basicly the question is why did the wand chose LV in the first place????

btw i decided to personify the wand to give it more character, it also made it easier to explain lol!!

Im going to have to say fate. When a wand chooses you, I believe the wand, and the wand alone had a vague outline of your future.. nothing to specific that it would violate a beings freewill, but enough to know that this is truly the wand for the wizard. It would only be natural then.. for fate to intertwine the chosen one and the Dark Lord in more than one way... the prohecy and the wands... by having brother wands, Harry's life is spared so he can live longer... even just a few years... I believe that the wands knew this... and it is sort of acting as a balance in nature... nature and the qualities of magic allowed for certain things to be set into motion... thus balancing out good and evil... and keeping order in the world...

so I would answer it more simply as ... fate.

~Albus

The wand chooses the wizard right? Fawkes is DD's familiar, and only a powerful wizard could use a feather from the familiar of a rather powerful wizard, yes?
Here is my answer:
LV's power was inherent in him and that feather from Fawkes sensed it. Perhaps the wand will be used for good finally at the end? It's hard to imagine Fawkes' feather being put to all of those evil purposes without making amends in some way. It's really a horrible thought. What does Fawkes know that we don't? Is that why he gave the second feather? To find a wizard who could stop LV? I wonder when Harry's wand was made?

Sorry, I know we're supposed to be finding answers not creating more questions!

I think it is more than just the core of the wand that counts, because from the way its been explained by JKR and in the books it would seem that the wood used in the wand is important too. I think Voldermort's wand was made from Yew which has a relation to old age or a long life span, just like a Pheonix, so i would guess that it sensed the desire for immortality in Voldermort.

yes... running the wand thread I have found that wood is quite important... the yew wood is associated with Death... hence why in the Graveyard scene in GoF there was a yew tree... its sap is also poisonous.... while Harry's wand...Holly wood... is said to be derived from "Holy" or those that are good... when it comes down to it... it is a battle between good and evil... life and death... but each have a similarity... the phoenix feather... and what do Phoenixes symbolize... immortality... or even more simply put.. the desire or will to live... and we both know that Harry and Voldemort each want to be the one who survives the war and prophecy...

~Albus

i think fate is a very plausable explaination (if you believe in it)

im not saying i dont but i think it is a very complex thing

anyway i agree that it is likely that with DD being a powerful wizard, fawkes chose another powerful wizard

i also like the stuff about the wood i had no idea but it is v.good lol!!

I'm going to agree with Tom on this one. But let me add a few more of my thoughts. (They are basically the same, but...)

It was not Fawkes' fault that his wand(s) would eventually end up with the two most opposite wizards in history. Fawkes had no control over who his wands went too. And for all we know, it is very possible that the wands were created long before Harry or Voldemort. In that case, then yes, we would have to place the blame on fate. At the time when Voldemort got his wand I do not think he was yet truly evil. He had indeed felt hatred and pain, and it was beginning to shape his character, but he still had some hope in him. Dumbledore had some hope in him, like he has hope in Harry.

The wands are just another link between Harry and Voldemort. Maybe it was because they were both two extremely powerful young boys. But maybe it was because the night that Voldemort tried to murder Harry, some of his powers got transffered into Harry. So when Harry went to Olivanders to buy his wand the same force felt Voldemort's presence in Harry. Thus why the same wand core was chosen.

Do my ramblings make any sense?

Good question I would say fate because I cannot come up with any other reason than Jk needed another connection to point out Harry was the Choosen One.

I am going to watch this tread as I belive its the most interesting so far.

I think that fate has some role in it, but I believe there also needs to be some other reason. Maybe the wand senses the need that person has for their wand. The need reflects what the person expects from their life. It also must be made of materials that will best suit that need. The sorting hat said that Harry had a thirst to prove himself. I think Tom Riddle would have felt the same way. Maybe the Phoenix feather is the type of magical material that answers this need.

So why is it that they both have the feather from Fawkes? Perhaps their need was greater than the typical person. Maybe they had some other need that would have been represented by greater magical power than usual (the connection to Dumbledore enhances the power of the feather?).

I have another theory, but I will not mention it because it is one that I truly hate.

I guess JKR just thought of it and thought it sounded good. I don't whether there is a background. But its a good thought, And it could be right,

I love Albus's reasoning. Anyway here's my thought.
We are all connected at some fundemantal place. With Harry and Voldemort it is more obvious then with others. Their wand cores reflect their cores. Both Harry and Voldemort come from the same places but ended up going in very different directions. Voldemort turned bad while Harry went good.

I see you have good points here. I think maybe they have brother wands because they are kind a "brothers" themselves, Voldemort and Harry. Same powers, same qualities Slytherin prizes. I mean Harry got that wand because of the same reasons why the sorting hat (not me ) wanted to place Harry in Slytherin house. And fate, of course - now they have even the same blood.

I like all the ideas on this thread and I agree with most of them that it has something to do with their needs and desires. I think that the wands sensed great power within these individuals, and it only makes sense that the greatest wizard ever's bird would have a tail feather in the wands of other great wizards.



Maybe this will be one of the great mysteries JKr decides to leave unsolved....

everyone is making good points here, I also think that JKR was trying to show yet another connection between Harry and Voldemort. I suppose though we may have to wait until the final book to find out if there is a valid reason for this and why she made it so.

Hmm, i just think that the feather from the phoenix is a powerfull thing to put in a wand, and only powerfull witches and wizards can handle a wand with that in. And the thing that makes the difference between LV and Harry and their wands is the tree. As Albus Dumbledore said, the tree in LVs wand is connected with death and Harrys with those that are good. And that is why they are brothers but stil different

I agree. But i think that fate has to do with the wand choosing the wizard. I mean i still don't know either why the wand chose LV but i just think that fate had something to do with the other wand choosing harry.

I think its becuase when LV tried to murder Harry he transferred some of his powers to Harry. Parselmouth etc. The wands could see this and fell the connection between Harry and LV. But in GOF Harry and LV tried to make their wands duel against each other but they couldn't becasue they had the same core and were brothers. In book 7 once Harry has found all he horcruxs (assuming this is what hapens) he has to go and kill Voldy, right? But will he be able to and will LV be able to kill Harry becasue of this connection??

That's a very good observation, and similar to what I was going to point out.

When Voldemort tried to kill Harry as a baby, he transferred some of his powers over to Harry, right? So, Harry received the Parseltongue gift for example. Later on in the series, Albus Dumbledore comes to the conclusion that Lord Voldemort chose Harry as the one who would be his downfall because 'he saw so much more of himself in you than Mr. Longbottom - half-blood...' Doesn't this say that while Harry and Voldemort are alike, apart from Voldemort being evil, and that Voldemort transferred some of his powers to Harry, that Harry would receive a similar wand? Yes, the wand chooses the wizard, but think about it, if Harry already had very similar attributes to Voldemort, and then Voldemort's powers were transferred to him, that would make him even more like Voldemort. What I'm trying to get across is that Harry and Voldemort are more alike than they know, and that is why I think their wands are brothers.

Though there still might be a little bit of fate mixed in, you never know. J.K is full of surprises.

HGJL

This a very interesting question. Why did Prof. Dumbledore only allow two feathers to be taken? Why not 1 or 3 or none? If the wood is important then we have to consider the wand maker, Ollivander. He put two feathers from the same phoenix in two different woods.

HarryGinnyJamesLily makes a good point. Harry and Tom Riddle do have many things in common besides wands. Maybe the wands, wood and feather, sensed the similarities and differences when they chose their Wizards.

Yes fate maybe but it could be Dumbledore.
I believe Dumbledore let 2 Phoniex feathers go to save Harry GardenToad.
Because in the maze because they where brothers the Priori Incantam that was created saved Harrys life...

Maybe Dumbledore predicted that this would happen and that is how Harry was saved?

Dumbledore isn't a Seer. Somehow, I don't think this was planned. There may be no particular reason as to why he gave away only two feathers. I think, that maybe because Fawkes was such a spectacular phoenix (you have to admit it, ) that Dumbledore thought he shouldn't give away more than two feathers. Or, maybe, Ollivander only just convinced Dumbledore to give away two feathers, and he refused to give more. There are so many possibilities.

HGJL

When Fakes is reborn, he'll have all his feathers again. If you could take them the eve of a Burning Day it wouldn't affect his appearance much or for long. There may be much more to creating wands then we realize so there may be serious consequences.

Prof. Dumbledore must have given them before he knew about Tom Riddle, or the prophesy or Harry. I guess it's fate or the writer.

I wonder if the time the feathers are taken will affect the magic or the direction they might take. For example, will the feather, and therefore the wand, be more magical/powerful if taken when the Pheonix has just been reborn or is in the middle of its life cycle compared to at the end before it is about to die and be reborn? Also, maybe this will affect whether it will choose someone loyal and brave like Harry or someone a little more evil and power hungry like Tom Riddle. What do you think?

I've never thought too much about when the feathers were taken, and just assumed that the 2 were taken at the same time, but maybe they were taken at different times, and at different parts of Fawkes' life cycle. Maybe this will come in to play at some point, although I wonder where would find out about such a thing?

There are so many great points made here, and a few of them really got me thinking... Lets go back a lot further, who did Fawkes belong to in the beginning? Is DD the only owner of Fawkes? They live forever, could Fawkes have belonged to Slytherin? Honestly, the thought of that is a little hard to swallow considering that both LV and Harry are both half-blood and we all know how Slytherin felt about that.

But what if a previous owner somehow connects the two in more ways than just their wands.

Also, by the time Harry got his wand he was already "marked" by LV and if there were only two wands that contained Fawkes' feathers it would only seem fitting that Harry a.k.a. "the marked one" would have the opposite wand, and maybe that's the key, the OPPOSITE wand.

Do you think that if Harry inherits Fawkes he will become stronger? I mean how many witches or wizards own the animal that their wand core come from...I would guess none until now (assuming Harry gets Fawkes).

And just to get totally off track, but I have to ask it, what house did DD belong to???

Dumbledore used to be a Gryffindor. He also used to teach Transfiguration before he became Headmaster.

Hmm, there are many points. I guess it's just going to have to be one of those topics that is endless, I think I'll just believe what I think, haha, .

HGJL

I think Voldemort got that wand because nobody would have expected anything special form him, and he knew it, so he was eager to prove everyone wrong, plus the fact that he liked what he could do in the orphanage(sp?) with making the kids do whatever they want or hurt them, so he wanted to expand that knowledge and gain more control over it.

On another note, perhaps the Phoenix feather only represents power, and not good or evil in wand cores, and Riddle had plenty of power, as does Harry, so their wands' cores would be Phoenix feathers. I think that Harry would have got a phoenix feather anyway, but the fact that its from the same phoenix as voldemort's, may be because of the night Voldemort transferred powers to Harry.

But we may never know the answer to these theories, and they might not have an important part in book 7. But then again, they might be important, and we might find out. So we can only guess the answers until book 7 comes out.

ok i know that Fawkes gave two feathers... maybe they mean the good and bad sides if the person.. too much evil : LV's wand.. too much good : Harry's wand.

so that's what it might be? right?

there must be reasons for Fawkes to give only 2 feathers...

fawks is an exceptional and probably the most powerful animal in the books and he decided to give two of his feathers. voldemort and harry each have one of fawks feathers and are agreed that they are the 2 most powerful wizzards. some may argue that dumbledore was, but he doesn't have the power to kill voldemort now did he? the prophecy says that only harry and voldemort can kill each other, no one else. even though dumbledore is probably more powerful than harry in most areas, harry is the only one that can kill voldemort, so i guess that makes him more powerful that dumbledore, and of course, voldemort is the other most powerful wizzard in the books. maybe because of fawkes power, the people who have his feathers in his wands will be that powerful too, and since voldemort transfered some of his powers to harry, harry would be destined to recieve the wand with fawkes feather in it, even after the prophecy has been made.

i was just thinking about lV and Harry and maby the reason they have brother wands is that they as the sorting hat senced are very much alike? Voldie and Harry when they entered into Olivanders had many things incomon.
~ They both are used to neglect
~ they both have had too live without friends
~ THey both are desprita to prove themselves
~ they both are orphans
~ They both have had a life much harder then the average kids
some differences
~Voldy is proud desprite to be better then others, he works alone he is independant!
~ Harry is lonly but is gratfull for help and is not afraid to admit his ignorince.
~Voldy is power hungry
~Harry just wants too fit in and be normal
I think that the wands senced the similarities between these two, hence brother cores. Also the difference hence the differnt woods! Just an idea

Haha, this is funny, because it's exactly what I said before. Voldemort and Harry have a LOT in common, and I believe that is part of the reason why their wands are brothers. They have a LOT in common, including the Parseltonuge ability, though that was passed on to Harry from Voldemort, which leads me to my next point. Their wands could also be brothers because Voldemort passed on some of his powers to Harry when he attacked him as a baby.

Thank you for outlining their similarities and differences, quidditch rocks. It's what I've been trying to get out all along.

HGJL

there are many things in common between Harry and LV, but they both are very different..

Harry has a pure heart, although he knows how to hate but still no one doesn't. But LV was born hating people around him... he always wanted to be an outsider in the orphanage, and he accepted and believed that he's a wizard immediatly. unlike Harry who we all know that he didn't believe in it. he thought that he was a normal boy. that is very unlike LV.

they both are very different but have slight similarities. i don't think that personalities have anything with there wands being brothers though...

it's very complicated... but maybe the answer is infront of us but we couldn't see it...

I belive that the wand chose LV because it suit him, and since phoniex are "mystical" or however you want to say it, fawkes knew in a way that VOldy would play a role later one.
Then when it sensed harry, it pieced it all together

crazy i know

I don't think Fawkes had any control over who got the two wands. I agree with quidditch rocks. Each wand could sense the similarities and differences. Maybe LV originally tried to use the wand that was later given to Harry but it didn't work for him so Mr. Ollivander gave him the brother wand which worked. Who knows. I think that the wands already know what kind of wizard/witch they want to own them. Wands are powerful objects and don't work quite as well with other wizards/witches. With this in mind, perhaps the wands decided that they had found their match. LV's wand could have wanted someone who was independent, powerful, and very ambitious. Does that make sense?

This may have already been said and if it was I apologize

The wands are brothers but that does not mean that they are the same. Think of them as having there own personality. I have two brothers and we are all very different. Just because we are brothers do not mean we have the same personality. We each like are own individual things. Maybe Voldemorts wand is evil eventhough it contains fawkes' feather it recognized it's personality in Voldemort. Maybe that is how the wand chooses the wizard.

to everyone addressing the "why fawkes gave two feathers" issue, it's specified in SS/PS that a phoenix typically gives only one feather, but fawkes was an exception, and he gave two.

So many have said it... Fate, and you can't argue with it! And they probably would have been brothers if it were Neville's wand and Neville was the Chosen One.

now that you bring up neville...
is it worth looking into that he was using his dad's old wand? in the department of mysteries, when his wand gets broken, he tells harry that his gran is going to kill him for breaking it. i wonder why he didn't have a wand of his own? it seems that his grandmother would have been able to afford it, unlike ron getting charlie's wand as a hand-me-down.

I took some political science classes in college, and one detail that I recall (many moons ago) is a professor saying that the political line should not be a straight line but a circle. On the left end of the political spectrum, you have the ultra liberals. On the right end you have the ultra conservatives. Though philosophically they are diametrically opposed, they have the same tools at their disposal as a way to advance their ideology. It is this area of overlap that causes the political spectrum to bend into a circle, leading some people to say that there's no difference between Democrats and Republicans.

Similarly, we know that Voldemort is the epitome of evil, while Harry is presented as the epitome of goodness and virtue. Yet they have the same tools at their disposal. Voldemort is trying to use magic as a means to live, and I am sure that Harry is doing the same thing (albeit not by creating horcruxes, but using magic as a means to strengthen his defenses).

Another point I would like the expound upon is the idea that the wand chose Tom Riddle, not Lord Voldemort. Voldemort did not exist when Tom Riddle bought that wand. Just as Darth Vader grew out of Annakin Skywalker, Voldemort grew out of Riddle. He could have chosen to use his powers for good, but instead he used them for selfish, evil purposes. The wand wasn't necessarily privy to what Voldemort would do with it when young Tom Riddle entered the shop.

The fact that the prophecy exists shows that there's a kind of destiny, and things are meant to happen sooner or later, one way or another.

It could be the same thing for the wand: it would have chosen Harry, long before his birth, so that when LV arrived at 11 years old to buy his wand, it recognized the link with Harry.

Furthermore, we know that it is thanks to that connection between the 2 wands that Harry survived in GoF, so so the wand would have "known" that it had to be the same for both the purest person - Harry - and his opposite - LV - so that good could triumph!
Just a hypothesis...

Couldn't there just be brothers? Like, obviously Harry and LV are related.. not like relative related but they are connected. Maybe Harry needed some feather that was connected to the other pheonix(LV's feather) to work on him.

Did DD even have ownership of Fawks then? It was over 50 years ago... how long did he have him? Also how did he even find him?

I would have no theory as to how Dumbledore would have gotten Fawkes, I guess he just got him from the start. What I think most people here agree on, is that Harry got his wand because he is similar to Lor Voldermort because of his heritage and because Lord Voldemort made him similar by passing powers over to him, unknowingly.

But the thing that bothers me is the fate in Tom Riddle getting a wand with Fawkes's feather in it. It seems that in this way Tom Riddle and Harry both have a connection with Fawkes and indirectly with Dumbledore. Would there be anything important in the seventh book as to how the connection that Voldemorts wand has to Dumbledore would play a part?

I think that it will be important for the course of things that Voldemort has a feather of Fawkes in his wand. First of all, it is a tail feather, right? That would be why Harry and Voldemort both are powerful wizards, because tailfeathers of phoenixes can carry immensly heavy loads. So all the death and destruction and serious difficult dark magic Voldemort has done, was actually thanks to this wand, to this powerful core, thanks to Fawkes and to Dumbledore. So there is, maybe not directly, but there is a connection? Do you guys think this will play a part? That VOldemort is somehow connected with Dumbledore, Harry will always be faithfull to Dumbledore, may even get Fawkes, so it would be very difficult for VOldemort to destroy Harry. Just getting my hopes up too, about Harry being safe :-)

What is Fawks is immune to a spell from Voldemort and/or harry because of the fact he is in their wands... like its his own magic? then not only could he take an AK for harry, but be like a sheild!!!

Fawkes has already taken an AK from LV: he swallowed the curse mid-air in the DoM fight at the end when LV fired it at Dumbledore. It returned Fawkes to baby bird form. Dumbledore took him back to his office with Harry and deposited Fawkes in the ashes on his perch.

Fawkes can take an AK, but only once. It regenerates his phoenix form to the beginning of the cycle.

Well I think that Fawkes being Dumbeldores (a very strong wizard) bird, his feather would go to another strong wizard. Even though Voldermort is evil he is still a strong and powerful wizard, as Ollivander sates when Harry gets his wand. Harry is also a strong wizard (not quite so strong, but then he isn't a fully trained wizard yet). So isn't it logical that two strong qizards should get Fawkes' father in their wands?

Thats what I think anyway..

Fawkes gave but two feathers and both became the cores of wands owned by opposites: Voldemort and Harry.

The prophecy tells us they are equals. Just another parallel of the prophecy? During PI, Harry heard Phoenix Song, which strengthened his resolve to hang on and force the light back into Voldemort's wand; Voldemort showed fear, which is precisely what Phoenix Song does to those of unpure heart.

They ARE Wand Brothers because of Fawkes feather,but they also are because when Voldemort tried to kill Harry,it backfired and gave Harry a scar. But that same night,Voldemorts powers were destroyed and some of his power was put into Harry. Thats why he is a Parsletongue,because Voldemort was too.