I think the ministry can detect if the magic is performed by an underage wizard/witch or of an of age wizard/witch. In CoS, Harrry was blamed b/c he was the only known wizard to be at the house. Where as in OOTP, Lupin, Tonks, and Moody are all way over the age of 17 so the ministry may have picked up on them using magic, but since it wasn't Harry doing it they couldn't accuse him of doing it. - dunno - it sure is a question to ponder over though.

Okay, I'm confused. Occlumency is what Snape tried to teach Harry in OOTP. It is the CLOSING of the mind to intrusion by Legilimency. In order for DD to have used Occlumency, Harry would have tried to invade his mind. Harry was in his second year, would probably not have had the skills. I think you and others have made the natural mistake of confusing Occlumency with Legilimency.

Now, the detection of magic thing is a good question. Why is it that Harry's use of the Patronus charm landed him in a hearing when Mundungus Fletcher's disapparation from a place physically nearer his house, didn't raise an owl feather? This is especially true if the principle is that kids in an all magic house can get away with using magic because the MoM can figure out where magic is used, but not who used it, depending on the Parents to police the ordinance. SO it does seem that either we have a major contradiction in the book, or there is some way to block the detection of the use of magic in muggle areas that JKR has yet to describe to us.

Hi there! I just found out a couple of minutes ago that I'm now a GRYFFINDOR!!!
I'm really pleased because I never thought I would be in Grffindor. (I thought I'd be in Ravenclaw or Hufflepuff)
Just back to the subject about who we are most like in the Gryfffindor house- I'm most like Hermione. I'm good in my classes and I work very hard, I read a lot and I'm loyal and caring to my friends and family.
See ya!!!

Yes, that's what i believe as well robbie1955. I'm pretty sure the Ministry can't detect the person who is doing the magic because remember, at GoF, Fred and George were creating these funny plastic wands and obviously, they used magic to do that, but they never recieved a letter from the Ministry... It really has me thinking...

BTW, welcome Rachel B! I hope you will like it here!

OOOOOOO... ok sorry alkisti, I understand you now.

What about the wand? Instead of the ministry detecting the person what if they detect the wands. So say if Harry's wand was used they would say that he used underage magic because that seems like a safe guess for it was his wand... though someone else could have used it. Does that make sense? Like in OotP the order members were not detected, or Harry for that matter, because the wands that were used had owners that were not underage. But say Moody or someone used Harry's wand instead of their own, then the Ministry would detect that.

As for when Dobby used magic, I think Harry got in trouble for that because he was the only wizard (or magical creature) on in site when the magic occured (if you recall Dobby vanished after dropping the cake), so that is why Harry got the letter saying that he used underage magic.

o, and welcome Rachel B to veritaserum!!!!

This is a really good question... I wish we knew more on the topic...

I don't think it would be the wand, because Dobby didn't use a wand. Maybe when Dumbledore went to tell the ministry that they didn't have the ability to expell Harry he also told them that he would be sending somebody to get Harry from his aunt's house. So they knew in advance that there were adult wizards in the house? That doesn't seem likely but I can't think of any other reason. Because, I know this has already been said, but it is true, they can't tell who did the magic, just that it was done. They knew that Harry lived there, so he got blamed for the magic when Dobby did it.

This also brings me to another question. How would the gaurd have been able to help Harry? Because lets say for a second that Mundungus didn't run off to find those culdrons, and he was the one who cast the patronus charm. Wouldn't the ministry have still acused Harry of it? Because they knew that he lived there and they didn't know that Mundungus was there.

By the way, I just wanted to say a quick welcome to Rachel B.

First let me answer your question Weasly_Girly_83, the gaurd would definetly would have helped Harry. Its more for the safety of Harry then the problem of "o, someone did magic over here, its Harrys fault!" I think the order more wanted to make sure Harry was safe and would not get harmed. And if Mundungus did use his wand, and Harry was accused they would have a witness and would most likely be able to get out of that situation. But if Harry was severly hurt or ever dead( ) they would not be able to do anything about that. So I think the risk of someone using magic was ok with them.

And the ministry probably caught Dobby using the magic for it was magic. They probably do not specify the kind of magic... for it happened in Harry's house, so they felt that it was a safe assumption to say that Harry did it.

Dumbledore says that the ministry can not detect the age of the person doing the magic and rely on the adults in the house to support the laws and make sure the children dont break the law.

it is a hover charm so i suppose that house elves dnt need wands and can do magic without them.

How can they get pushed around then?

House elves can apperate were others cant, can do magic without a wand and protect their masters.

Why not themselves?

There is no point in spew really, hermione just needs to perswade houselves to stand up for themselves, really wands just hold you back.

There is no danger of being disarmed.

I chat on a bit i no sos.

I know that the order would still help him, what I was referring to was when Harry's neighbor, can't think of her name, the one with the cats who turns out to be a squib....anyways, she says that the whole point in having Mundungus there was to keep Harry from doing magic. That sounds to me like they were expecting the ministry to try and expel Harry, but even if Mundugus did the magic not Harry they still would have blamed it on him. Does that make sense?

yeah, Weasly_Girly_83, I know what your saying. I can't seem to think of the squibs name at the moment either... Mrs. Figg, just looked it up. lol.

I think that Dumbledore knew the Ministry was after Harry for wanting to catch him doing underage magic. For we know in the beginning of the 5th book is when Fudge really seems too heat up on wanting Harry to get in trouble. So I think that Dumbledore's orders made a lot of sense, so that Harry would not get in any trouble.

Also, I think Dumbledore was expecting for something like a dementor attack to happen, for he knew Fudge wanted to get Harry expelled sooooo badly, and the fact that Voldemort was after him. Also it seemed like the perfect time to attack Harry: he was out of school, Dumbledore was not there to protect him, and no other wizard was there to help Harry, unless you count Mrs. Figg, but shes a squib. Does that help?

o, and I know im not supposed to say this here, but Weasly_Girly_83, I love your fan fic. please don't get me in trouble for saying that here. haha...

Oh, ok, I get it now. He was expecting somebody to attack Harry, wether it be the ministry or Voldemort he couldn't say, but he had somebody follow Harry because he was sure it was going to happen. This made me think of another question though...I'm just full of them tonight...haha. Anyways, what I'm wondering is, if he was sure Harry was going to be attacked, why didn't he just bring him to 12 Grimuald Place, where he and everybody else from the order would be on a regular basis, and where the Weasly's and Sirius were living? He would have plenty of protection there, and people wouldn't have to follow him around. I know in the books it says Dumbledore thought that he was probably safer there, but if he was going to be attacked then it wouldn't be safer would it??

Oh, and thanks Potter_Addict_713, I'm glad you like it!

Yes, Weasly_Girly_83, that question does seem like there is a very obvious solution. And thats whats I thought too... Why doesn't Harry just go and live in Grimuald Place in the first place. That is also why I think Harry went to balistic when he arrived at Grimuald Place and saw Ron and Hemione together. The only answer I can possibly think of is that Dumbledore has his reasons...

I know thats no help, but I really don't have a good answer for that, sorry.

haha, it's ok, that's the only thing I could think of too. Dumbledore has his reasons. Seems like that's the answer to everything he does. He has his reasons, nobody else gets it, but he must have them. lol. Anyways, I just thought of something. At the beging of HBP Dumbledore said something about the reason Harry had to return to the Dursley's was because his mother's blood was there. So, maybe Dumbledore thought he was safer where his blood is? I know, I just answered my own question. haha. Sorry for bothering you guys wth it.

haha. nice. Its ok, I do that all the time.

Also I have a question for you guys. You know how in OotP Snape used Dumbledore's pensieve for Harry's Occlumency lessons? Well, then is it possible for Snape to have used Dumbledore's pensieve at other points in time? Or even that he has his own pensieve? Because I was just thinking that if Snape was really working for Dumbledore, then when he went to the Death Eater meetings he most likely put those memories in a pensieve, right? Because those memories would be crutial for the Order and would give them "the inside scoop" on what Voldemort was doing. Just a thought...

Potter_Addict_713, I like that idea. It would make sense, Snape would put his memory of what had happened in the meeting in the pensive and then he could show it to Dumbledore. Which would be even better than him just telling Dumbledore, because as we have seen, you can notice things in the pensive that you hadn't originally noticed when it was actually happening to you. So if he were to just say what had happened he may miss a crucial detail that Dumbledore mananged to pick up by actually watching it happen.

Ok, I have another question. haha. Ok, lets say that Snape, or somebody else, because I personally believe that he's innocent but he's the only good example I can think of here. So lets say that Snape was spying on the order for Voldemort, and he had his own pensive and showed Voldemort the memories in it. Would it be possible for him to show Voldemort a memory of Dumbledore telling him where the headquarters is, and by doing so tell Voldemort the location, even though he isn't the secret keeper?

hmm... theres a thought. personally, I don't understand the whole secret keeper thing. I guess that is possible, but still that might be the same thing as telling someone where the Order is, just in a different form, instead of actually telling someone.

Is it possible that Voldemort could just use Legimency (I dont think I spelled that right, and Im too lazy to get up and look in the book. haha) on Snape, so that its not Snapes fault at all, because Voldemort "forced" the answer out of him?

I don't think the secret keeper spell would work that way. Just think about it, if you used where DD you would not use it if there where any way of getting around it. I'm sure DD would know if there was. Might be that once preformed on the person you would not even be able to pull the memory out.
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Still it does make you wonder if we will learn HOW Snape kept LV from reading his mine.

Then again, all of our talk about Snape is assuming he is loyal to Dumbledore... and you know what? HE BETTER BE!!!!!!!

Haha... yeah, Quietus... I don't understand the whole secret keeper thing either... Its quite strange really. For I would think that everyone in the order would sort of be secret keepers, because they know where the order is... So how can one person be the secret keeper and be the only person able to tell anyone else the where abouts of the Order if everyone else knows? I know this probably sounds really stupid and is a pointless topic but, it just seems really odd to me. I mean, couldn't at any point in time Harry, Ron or Hermione shout out the where abouts of the Order, even though they are not the secret keeper? Or would they, like, not be able to say anything because they are not the secret keeper and there mouths would be like glued together or something because theyare not allowed to say it?

Hey I just rememberd something, DD was secrect keeper for the Order. Remember no one told Harry where it was they showed him the note written by DD . Might be that all the order people can know where it is but if asked would not be able to say. I mean, like it there but you can quite seem to remember. Get it
Might be if you are with members who are going in you would do just like the muggles do. Walk on without noticing your partner has vanished.

Ok, well supposidley the way it works is that one person can tell you where it is, and everyone else who knows can't, wether they are physically inable to or something will happen to them if they do, I don't know. But whatever the reason, the can't say whatever the secret is. But as we saw in OotP, Dumbledore didn't tell Harry where the Order was, sent him a note saying it. So, if the note were to fall into the wrong hands, then that person should be able to see the headquarters to. So, what I'm wondering is, if somebody saw a memory of it, would it work the same way? Even though the person didn't tell them directly? They still saw the person saying/writing it.

Weasly_Girly_83, if you are talking about the memory being of the person, Snape for example, getting a piece of paper from Dumbledore which says the address on it, then I do not see why that would not work, for Dumbledore was the one who really showed anyone that paper... its all a very weird concept. I wish Jo would clear it up for us...

I just thought of something. Speaking of seceret keeper, DD is dead so does that mean anyone can find the place? Does the spell continue if the seceret keeper is gone?

I think I remember Jo answering that in an interveiw. She said something about if the secret keeper dies then the secret dies with him. So that would mean that it will still work, but unless they have a piece of paper where he wrote the location of the Order of the Pheonix, then nobody knew will ever be able to find it.

well that makes a lot of sense. Again the great and wonderful JK Rowling solves on of our delemas!!!

So that means no one will ever know the where abouts of the Order, unless they already know? hmm... weird. What will happen then if Harry decides to make more people join? Like Luna and Neville? I think those two should be in the order!!

That could be a problem, but I don't really see Luna and Neville joining. I think they deserve to, but they don't even know about the Order. And besides, as of HBP they were refusing to even let Harry join the Order, and he deserves to be there more than anyone else. So I don't see many new people joining anyways. And if JK does decide to have new members join, well...she can always come up with a plot twist...Dumbledore left directions in case new members join, or they are older and were already in it, we just didn't know them, so they already knew where it was. Something like that.

I guess the order as it stands would have to move to a new location if it were to expand. I wonder if Harry will live there or if it will be too painful?
About the pensive, why havent we heard of other wizards using one? We know DD and Snape but is it like the invisablity cloak. Only a few people have them?

Propably, but unlike the invisibilty cloak, I don't think that its because they are rare, I just doubt that many people use them. Dumbledore is a genius, he's been around for how many years. He needed a place to sort out his thoughts. As for Snape, I think he was borrowing Dumbledore's for the occlumency lessons. Or maybe he has one to show Dumbledore what happens at the DE meetings or Voldemort what happens at the OotP meetings, depending on what side he's on. But most people don't have that many thoughts, or that pressing of a need to be able to show them to people, so they don't bother to buy one. Or they do have one, but it's not important to the plot, so we just didn't hear about it.

I agree on the pensieve topic. I dont think many people have them, or even need them. Dumbledore has had many important things happen to him over his lifetime, and many of them are extremely important. And that is why I think he of all people needs a pensieve.

ok, It makes sense that Snape was using Dumbledores pensieve... but I still have a huge hunch that he might have his own... there is nothing that JK has said that leads to this, but I think so...

Hm...it seems to me that JKR had made a mistake. Answering to my question, two pages back, i believe she really has to clear this up for us...Also, there is no wand issue because Fred and George used their own wands to make these weird gums etc at GoF but they got no warning, although they were underaged. Which means that they detect the spell, not the wand or the one who casts it...
About the Pensieve, i just thought something crazy! Wouldn't it be great if somehow every student could memorize quickly his/her lessons and then removed these memories? And get them back to their head when they were sitting for exams or something? lol! This would not work probably but it would be fun anyways!

hmmm do I detect a reference to The Wizard of Oz? (ignore the little man behind the curtain) I have started a thread in the lounge about this called Deus Ex Machina (god in the Machine) Because it seems that JKR often gives info outside the book that is needed to explain happenings inside the book. Here DD is dead, the secret dies with him. That potentially poses all kinds of problems with regard to the Order and to Grimmald place. If the protection of the secret still exists, who besides those already in on it can ever come into Grimmald place again? That severely limits those who might join the Order from using the Headquarters. If the protection died with DD then what can be done to prevent Bellatrix from arriving on the doorstep, since she would know where the house was otherwise?
Now, obviously there are wise and powerful wizards, like the real Mad Eye who could immediatly take steps to preserve the sanctity of HQ, but on the surface it looks like we have a conundrum.

alkisti: I think that if the students had a pensive that they could. I mean, I know that when I go home for the weekend I come back to school on Monday and I still know what we talked about in class. So if the stuent had access to a pensive then they probably could go back and relive the lessons right before an exam. The actuall memory with full detail is probably stored somewhere in the back of your brain, but you only actually think about the stuff you wrote down when you were taking notes. Does that make any sense?

robbie1955 I agree, the secret dying with Dumbledore posses alot of problems. If it means that nobody new can get in on the secret, then they have to find a new place for Headquarters. That makes me wonder, could they go back to wherever they were last time? The first time that Voldemort came to power Mrs. Black was still alive, so they obviously couldn't use Grimuald place. So, where were they?

And if they protection was lifted, then somebody needs to work fast to re-instate it. Before Bella comes knocking.... This made me think of another question. Who would be the person to re-instate the spells? Who was Dumbledore's second in command? Assuming for a second that he did infact ask Snape to kill him if the need arose, this would mean he had invisioned a situation with him ending up dead. So, who was supposed to take over the Order when he was gone?

haha, alkisti, brilliant thought!!! I wish I could have that...And that is true, I guess students could do that, but could that be concidered cheating???

Also, I think that JK needs to slove this problem. The whole fred and george issue should be solved!! I think that it probably has something to do with them doing some kind of spell that they made up to keep it undetcted... O, I just thought of something... They to have used spells or some form of magic becuase they were making things for their joke shop in the burrow... where mrs. weasly was keeping a sharp eye on them... so they must have used a spell to keep there room from making noises or something...

If the secret dies with Dumbledore then what should the order do? I dont mean to be rude or anything, but do you think there is like, a bac up secret keeper, like in case the real one died? Like what happened to the order? I think I should email JK asking her about this... haha

This is really stumpin' me. I still don't get the underage wizard thing. If it wasn't the wand that caused the dection than how did they know? Do they know by the child? If so why are they being selective on who and when to punish. If its be location than they would have know that someone was sneaking Harry out of the house. Any more thoughts on this?

They didn't have spells on their room to keep it silent. Remember, the narrator describes as sometimes they can hear explosions coming from their room? What I think happens is that they're a wizarding family and the Ministry wouldn't be able to differentiate between Molly, Arthur, Percy, Bill, or Charlie (Since they were frequenting the place at that time in book 4). So if Fred did a spell or charm, they wouldn't know if it was he or Harry or Molly Weasley. They may detect the magic but not who has done it unless they go there and use other methods.

In the case of Harry using magic at the Dursleys, he was the only wizard around. Therefore, since he was the only one around, they can automatically say it was he. This is similar to how owls work, in my opinion. They can keep track of how many wizards are in a given area but not be able to tell who is there. Perhaps that is how Sirius was able to stay hidden (and it wouldn't work if the place you resided in was unplottable). And also would explain if someone came up to Harry at the Dursleys and performed some magic. Dobby probably wasn't detected because of their different abilities. You can't say Mrs. Figg was a witch because she was actually a squib.

In a similar fashion, they can probably detect illegal magic or magic used by those who didn't go to school (like the Gaunts). THat could then also explain how Tom Riddle managed to get away with those killings and how Morphin (or whoever it was) was blamed for them.

Just my opinion.

I don't think there would be a backup secret keeper because it would then not be a secret. It would defeat the purpose of a secret keeper because its supposed to be held within one person. Otherwise Sirius could have remained secret keeper and told someone else more trustworthy in case he died. Why would someone want a backup anyway? If the secret keeper died, then the secret is gone forever. Unless you mean for the Order (from your post, Potter_Addict), then what would be the point still? They still have those papers that would allow them into the place but now their secret is literally safe forever (unless I interpreted it wrong).

I don't think that it's cheating, because it would be the same as if they were to take really really detailed notes. You can go back and reread your notes cant you? Re-living the class would be like taking good notes. Plus, in some college classes you can bring a tape recorder with and record the lecture, then go back to your dorm and listen to it again. So, it's the same idea really.



What I had ment about a back up, wasn't like a back up secret keeper. More, who's going to run the Order now that Dumbledore is gone? He was in charge, so who's in charge now?

Also, I don't think that they still have those papers, remember after Harry read it Lupin or somebody set it on fire, so that there was no way that it would accidently fall into the wrong hands. So, if they weren't saving the notes that Dumbledore left, I don't think that anybody who wasn't already in on the secret can join the order.

I think that was what El Barto was talking about. Now because there are no more notes left by Dumbledore (saying the address to the Order) then the secret is safe forever. I guess this then says that no one else can say the orders whereabouts; like now that Dumbledore's dead Snape can't tell Voldemort anything about where the Order is. But he can talk about what goes on in there.

Yeah, I guess thats true, Weasly_Girly_83. It does seem like you are re-living the class. But still, I think that that would be too much of a hassel for any of the students to do.

As for running the Order, my guess is that they can pick a new leader. I mean no one is going to be as good as Dumbledore (obviously ), but they probably an follow someone else. Or have it be like a democracy, where everyone can be heard.

And I was just saying that for the Order a back up secre keeper, though we know it probably didn't happen, would not have been that bad of an idea. Becuase, from my understanding, now no one else can know about the Order, unless they already knew about it before Dumbledore's death. Or was the secret of where the Order was? Then they could get more people to join, but need a new headquarters... Jeezz... Im soo tired and I cant really think straight right now... though it is 1:45..

Perhaps this is why DD is giving JKR fits. She needs Grimmald place available to let someone besides the current order members use HQ. And she hasn't explained how the Secret is passed on if and when a secret keeper dies.

The Detection of Underage magic has me buffaloed also. The explanation once given about Fred and George, or Draco doing magic at home was that magic could be detected, but who does it cannot. Therefore the parents in a wizard household are expected to keep their underage children in line. And are we just talking about wand magic. Is it okay for the Weasley kids to fly around playing quidditch in the backyard, so long as muggles don't see them? Why?

If the MoM cannot tell who performs the magic in an area, just that magic has been performed, and if Harry was the only known wizard on Privet Dr, why wasn't Mundungus FLetcher's disapparation, and assumed other magic, attributed to Harry? Dobby's was. I think though that the MoM has very selective rules about which infractions of the Wizarding Law they pursue.
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Ok, as far as I can tell the ministry can detect magic, but not who does it. That's why Harry can play quiditch at the Weasly's, and Fred and George could make their joke products. Because the ministry couldn't tell if it was Fred, or Mr. Weasly, or one of the other people in the house, who did the magic. But that also means that they are pretty selective about which cases they follow up on and which they don't. Think of all the magic that has been performed in Private Drive.

~In his first year Hagrid made Dudley grow a pigs tail.
~Second year, Dobby blew up the pudding
~Third year, he blew up his aunt, then produced the lumonus charm.
~Fourth year, the Weasly's came by floo powder, Fred and George gave Dudley the tongue-tofey, and Mr. Weasly performed some charm to shrink his tongue. Plus, blowing up the fireplace when they first arrived.
~Fifth Year, Patronous Charm, Mundungus dissapperating.
~Sixth Year, Dumbledore performed the charm to make the couch move, and the charm to get everyone a glass of firewiskey.

However he was only ever formally acused of blowing up the pudding, and of the patronous charm. And during the trial when Fudge was getting desperate, of blowing up his aunt. What about all the other magic? Why has nobody ever said anything about that? It seems to me that they would have assumed that Harry did that as well.

It is the Fidlius Charm. In POA Flitwick says that voldemort could have been stareing into the Potter's window and not been able to see them unless he was told by the secret keeper. That is why the note had to be sent by dumbledore, and to make sure it does not fall into the wrong hands, they burnt it when harry read it.

Also, the pigs tail was not at privet drive, and dumbledore had probably told the the ministry he was collecting harry.

After all the ministry was trying to corner harry and talk to him, which dumbledore was trying to avoid.

that is a very very good point. Is it possible that Hagrids Magic did not show because he was using an umbrella? No, then Dobby's wouldn't have shown... Wow... this is soo confusing. I hope there is a reasonable answer for all of this because I hate saying that Jo made a mistake, though for the time being I guess that is what I will have to assume...

I wouldn't say she made a mistake...so much as a loophole in her writing? Just didn't really think out such a small detail so clearly. I mean she's writing a novel, there's alot to think about when your writing. She probably didn't think about every bit of magic ever performed when she was writing it in. Or thought that nobody would put so much thought into such a tiny detail. It's not her fault that we're all so obbsessed we put so much thought into something that is probably not going to make any difference.

Yeah the books are full of these 'mistakes'.

Anyway, The potter books are genius, she cant manage everything and make her writing imaculate. She is only human

I'm gonna go now see you

What if the magical use is viewed case by case?

In Hagrid's case, when he came to Harry and the Dursleys on that island in the first book, they may have been too far out or not on the "grid" for anyone on the mainland to detect it. What I mean is, either Harry would have gotten busted for underage magic or Hagrid would have for illegal use. However, we have to remember that Harry hadn't set foot in Hogwarts at all. Perhaps a Ministry official realized this and passed it on. Otherwise Harry would have been taken in for underage magic a long time ago for all his little twinklings of it here and there.

What I mean by grid is that maybe their detection techniques only go out so far. Say, for example, Harry was on Iceland and performed a spell. Would the Ministry detect him there? In my opinion, I doubt it (not that he'd be there anyway). Maybe the detection only goes out so far, especially with Muggles around.

That makes a lot of sense El Barto. I'm glad you thought of that!

O, yeah guys I didn't mean to be insulting to JK. Its brilliant work shes doing. I ment to say that she just made a small mistake in not being able to clear up this problem tous.

While Hagrid had his wand snapped in half about 50 years ago, when Tom Riddle framed him, we suspect the halves of his wand still exist. Harry asked Hagrid if the old wand pieces were in the shaft of the umbrella. Hagrid quickly changed the subject. I think that Hagrid has somehow pieced his wand back together and is hiding it as an umbrella shaft. Its possible that DD helped with this deception.

It wasn't Fudge who sent the dementors after Harry - it was Umbridge - she admits it in the ending of OOTP - I can't remember what chapter it is exactly, but it's towards the end before Harry and some DA's go to the ministry... I think it was the time when she cathes Harry in her office with Draco or something like that - anyways, I don't think Fudge knew anything about the dementors attacks. It was this point of Umbridge confessing that makes me think she is a DE or working under the Impedimus Curse.

I also agree with Robbie1955 about Hagrid. But yet I don't think that the wand has to 'look' like a wand - if it performs magic when 'called upon' I think the Ministry can pick up that magic was used, but seeing how Hagrid only uses his wand on Hogwarts property they can't prove it was him the did the magic. In HBP - is helps fight the retreating DE's and then Bellatrix puts his house on fire - and he uses magic to put that out....

Just some thoughts...

Padfoots Companion: I really like the idea of Umbridge being under the imperious curse. It would explain why Harry's scar hurt after he touched her. Sorry. I know that's off topic.

Anyways. I agree that at least part of Hagrids old wand is in there, if not the whole thing. But, this made me think off something. Would him doing magic still be illegal? After the ministry found out that he wasn't the one who actually opened the chamber while he was at school? I think that he would be allowed to take private lessons or something and finish his schooling.

Thats what I thought Weasly_Girly_83, as I recall, the ministry snapped Hagrids wand in half so he couldn't use it anymore. My guess is that Hagrid using a wand or any other form of magic would be illegal. But then why did he not get caught when he gave Dudley a pigs tail? The only reasonable answer I have for this is that they were out of the magical "grid" as El Barto has explained to us earlier.



And, Padfoots Companion, Umbridge being under the imperious curse seems very likely. I like that idea. That would explain Harry's scar burning. I was just wondering how should could have been under the curse? I mean wouldn't the person who was controling her have to have been around her, pretty much all the time? I know that in HBP Draco put the lady from the three broomsticks under the imperious curse (I think thats right), but he could do that because he was so close to her. So wouldn't that mean that either Snape or Draco would have had to had Umbridge under the curse?

Cause Im just saying that it might have been hard for Voldemort or someone to control her because they were not as close in distance... I dont know if that made any sense... I dont think so.

JK has said in intervies that Umbridge was not working for Voldemort in any way shape or form. JK said specifically that Umbridge was not under the Imperius Curse. She was just a nasty woman.

Since we are on the topic of the Fidilius Charm (or were just moment ago), here is another dilemma for you. We know Peter was the Secret Keeper for the Potters. Thus, no one should have been able to find the Potters home unless he told them. How is it that anyone was able to find Harry? Unless Peter told them (which would have let them know that Sirius did not betray the Potters), they would not be able to find the house.

Umbridge sent the dementors after Harry because she was too far up Fudge's backside to let him be troubled by someone going arou nd saying the very thing that would, if true, force fudge out of office after going so far deneing the rise of voldemort. She sent the dementors to make Harry do magic, to dis credit him infront of the wizarding world and to gain the support of people following what Harry sat them have their way with her.

She is a canaiving cow and needs to be put down.

Put her in a feild of Cenetaurs and let them have their way with her.

LOL



The Potters were members of the Order of the Pheonix, as was wormtail,sirius,hagrid,dumbledore,and everyone else. They were the people that helped keep the fidlius charm intact. All of these would have been told by wormtail.

However, the fact that wormtail was secret keeper and not sirius was classified info.
It still seems weird how they could not know that wormtail was secret keeper. Afterall he was the one who would have to go around telling everyone were the potters lived.

Hmm I dont know

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