Ok, I seached all the book forums for the word "snake," "snakes," and "divided." I didn't come across it. I thought surely it would exist, but I can't find it. If someone finds one and wants to shut this down, by all means do.

In Harry Potter and the Order of the Pheonix, Dumbledore is consulting his various instruments to determine the nature of Harry's link to Voldemort. The instrument he consults produces a snake make out of smoke. When he sees this, he says “Naturally. . .But in essence divided?” After this question, the snake splits in two.

My question is, what do you think the meaning of this phrase is? Is it a clue to harry being a horcrux? Or does it mean something else? I don't want this to merely become an "Is Harry a Horcrux" thread, as I think that there might be other possibilities to the meaning of this phrase as well. But what are they? Let's put our collective minds to work and try to figure it out!

-Fish

Hmm that is wierd that there isnt a thread for this... but Im glad you made it nonetheless. This piece of information has intruiged me nearly as much as Dumbledore glint of triumph in GoF. Its so enigmatic.. so reclusive... almost to the point that its painful. Either way, lets look at the words themselves to try to understand what Dumbledore was saying.

"Naturally... but in Essence divided?"

The first word, naturally, tells that Dumbledore knew of this part of the information, and it was most likely to be well known to him because of his word choice of naturally. You generally reserve that word for something you are familiar with.

The second part is his questioning. He is now questioning his original belief in the information he regarded as "naturally". To look deeper into this question, I looked up the definition of Essence.. and what I found was quite exciting, and chilling at the same time.

One of the definitions, when one searches "define: essence" in the Google Search Engine is:



So what Dumbledore may being saying is:

"Naturally... but the soul is divided?"

So what does all this mean? What would Dumbledore know to an extent enough to say "naturally" but then question the apparent division in whatever he regarded as "naturally".

Some may say Horcruxes in general, but would he really have to question the "divided" nature of a Horcrux... I dont think so. So there must have been something else to spark this statement.

~Albus

He says this after harry has his "nightmare" of Nagini attacking Arthur right? Well maybe Dumbledore said naturally naturally because, like you guys said, he had either suspected this or knew of this. Maybe he was talking about Voldemort being inside Naginin's head? I'm only guessing and I can't really explain it but I'll try. Dumbledore even said to Harry when he finally explains everything that Harry saw himself attacking Nagini cuz at the time that's where Voldemort's mind was. Inside Nagini. Maybe Essence divided means that Voldemort isn't "inside" nagini just inside of her mind. God i don't think i'm making sense...*sighs* i'll hush....

No worries. you're making sense. The first question, it seems, is "who is Dumbledore refering to?" The second would be "what does dumbledore mean?" before we can analyze this, we must first look at what we know from what is said. Tom, you have given us a good place to start with your analysis, though I would amend what you said a bit. You claim that the word "essense" is refering to soul. That is entirely possible, but before we make that leap, let's go with the most basic and simple meaning, I think. I believe that we can, with little difficulty, agree that dumbledore is saying "Yes, of course. I know that" (refering to the "ghost snake") "But are they basically, for the most part divided?" That would be what the word "essentially" would mean in common usage of the word, as the word "naturally" may have added connotations, but the idea of "of course" is the common usage. The word "essentially" may indeed refer to the word soul, but let's put that aside for one moment. What does this initial analysis tell us?

1) There at least two (presumably only 2, as the snake divided into 2 snakes) persons, things, etc.

2) They are "essentially," that is, basically, in there essence, for the most part divided.

3) Part of them is not divided. The use of the word "essentially" before divided, plus the single snake, implies that there is some link. These two people or things are different in essence, but are still linked in some way.

This could be refering to Harry and Voldemort. Harry and Voldemort are linked, but their essense is divided. Whatever the heck that means. Or it could mean Voldemort and the Snake are the same, but divided. I think that is a very good idea, SlytherinHeadGirl05. Ok, let's think about this.

Nagini has a piece of Voldemort's soul (if Dumbledore is correct). Nagini is a horcrux. Perhaps Voldemort was not possessing Nagini, but was, in fact, controlling Nagini through his horcrux inside her. This piece of soul was Voldemort ("Naturally"), but it is "in essence divided" from him.

-fish

I'm glad I made sense in the end, I was wondering if I was sounding like Hermione did in the Time-Turner sequence in the book, confusing the heck out of Harry! Thank you for the compliment though, I'm glad i could help this discussion further along. I never used to think this deeply about HP, but reading the "prophecies" on this site as well as another site, mugglenet.com...some people have even convinced me of some things. You made a good point though savingharry. Tom was able to control Ginny through his diary, which in the end was a horcux. So maybe (though i still a bit doubt it, just me though) that nagini is a horcux and that's how he was controlling her. Unlike how he tried to control harry in the MoM, trying to trick Dumbdore, he "possessed" Harry. The way he was trying to control Harry and the way Tom was controlling Ginny are a bit different. In my mind you can see the differences I don't know if anyone else can but to me the way he controlled the two are different. I think the saying was speaking of Voldemort controlling Nagini like Tom controlled Ginny. I seriously think the object was showing that the "snake" is one snake yes but in "essence" (if it's referring to soul like Albus had found online) then the snake is "divided" somehow. His soul. O.O i just realized i'm convincing myself that nagini IS a horcux lmao @ myself.....i'm so airheaded sometimes, sorry my stupidity XDDD

Should have tried "Essence", Fish No worries though, the other thread is ancient and it's in a locked forum, so no point in reopening it now seeing as how there are replies here. Just for reference though, the old thread is here, if anyone wants to see some old ideas.

Generated a bit of theorising at one time, this...for me now though, I guess it's fairly obvious that he was referring to Voldemort's soul. I'm still holding firm to my Harry-is-a-Horcrux theory, so it would make sense for it come down to just the two pieces...one in Voldemort, one in Harry. That's what I've always believed anyway.

Dumbledore as many people have said, was referring to something he already knew or had suspicions about when he says naturally. However, i think that when he says "naturally" he could have simply been talking about the fact that Voldemort was possessing Nagini at the time of Harry's dream (that's why Harry saw it from Nagini's point of view) and when he says "in essence divided" it could mean (Voldemort and Nagini) are essentially divided. In this context, essence could mean both definitions (basically and soul). Voldemort and Nagini are "basically" divided or Voldemort and Nagini are divided "souls." It goes along with the explanation Dumbledore gives Harry as to why he witnessed it through Nagini instead of from the side or above like a normal dream. Just what I got out of reading it.....

Hmm it very well may mean that TheSeventh. But after reading quite a good book by the Wizarding World Press, I have been solidified in my thinking that when JKR leaves something hanging like that, its important, or its a clue.. especially in such an action packed scene.

Why would Dumbledore need a silver, smoke emitting instument to tell him that what he already knew about Nagini? If this were the case, how was a little instrument, within the protective walls of Hogwarts Castle supposed to tell Dumbledore about Voldemort and Nagini. What exactly was the instrument reading to give its data? Was it Harry's Dream? Harry himself? These are the things that dont add up that leave me to believe that whole scene is more than it seems, and isnt the simplest explanation.

"in essence divided..."- one of his better quotes

~Albus

good observation!
however, there are just too many possibilities, we'll have to leave it up to Jo to reveal.
another unanswered question is WHAT WAS THE INSTRUMENT ANYWAY? that could provide the answer anyways.....hmm....

If the snake (Nagini) is a Horcrux, and it has been said that Voldemort himself is a Horcrux, what if it was simply refering to the Horcruxes. Harry had the dream about he being Nagini and attacking Arthur Weasley (right?). This to me seems as though Harry can gain access, or could gain access, to a living Horcrux via the connection between he and Voldemort. He couldn't exactly pop into a locket or a cup and see certain things.

Think of this as the movie "Stir of Echoes". The main character can see flashes of a death that ocurred in his home. His son can see the whole thing...its like tapping into the spiritual world. The son see's the whole thing (ie, his flashlight works all the time), the father can only see glimpses (his flashlight doesn't work). I say flashlight because thats what someone refered to it as in the movie.

So Harry can see these glimpses from time to time but can't control them. When he attacked Arthur, he felt as though he were the snake. When he told Dumbledore, Dumbledore was already convinced that Voldemort had Horcruxes (just no solidifying proof). Perhaps Dumbledore was trying to figure out how many Horcruxes Voldemort had (or living Horcruxes).

I guess the way I think about this is that there must be a piece of LV's soul in Nagini, and a piece in LV himself. Otherwise how could he be walking and talking? If there wasn't a piece of him in that weird little body he was in in the beginning of book 4 then how could have even been there in the first place? So with one horcrux gone (the locket) and one in Nagini, and one in LV himself, that leaves . . . (higher math . . .) four horcruxes right? Four pieces of LV's soul that Harry needs to vanquish.

Don't forget about the diary

So that would mean, if one is to assume this:

Diary (gone)
locket (questionable whereabouts)
Voldemort himself
ring (gone)
Nagini (still questionable, but still a good possibility)
Hufflepuff's cup
Something else

Still four though (if the locket was destroyed afterall)



Thats what I was thinking as well.

Albus Dumbledore, that’s a really good conclusion. “Naturally but the soul is divided”. I think he is referring to Voldemort and him splitting his soul for horcruxes. Perhaps Nagini is a horcrux. Hmmmmm, I think that this point just confirmed Dumbledore’s theory on Voldemort having horcruxes.

I think I might be even more anxious to find out what that machine silver thingymabob is then the whole essence divided quote. Basically because it'll probably either give us the answer to or more information to this quote...so ok i guess i'm excited for that too. I really can't wait. Maybe essence divided means Harry and LV because they can both speak parseltounge, like some type of metaphor or something. Dumbledore hasn't been too clear with some of his quotes...or maybe it could mean the snake and LV. But I do agree with savingharry. That he knew about the first part (when he says naturally) and eventually came to a new idea for the second ( essence divided). So the real part we're looking for an answer to is the second, well that's what I really want to know anyway.

I agree with Jigger-pokery. I always thought it meant Harry and Voldemort and the link they share. Now however, what with the timing of the event and all that followed in the subsequent book, I'm convinced that the instrument was basically telling Dumbledore that Voldemort had horcruxes.
It showed a single snake, which we know to symbolize Voldemort, meaning he is a single person. Dumbledore now has the idea that Voldemort may have made at least one horcrux (Nagini) since Harry's tale. So he asks the instrument, " but in essence divided?" meaning his soul, and the snake splits.
I'm convinced that this scene is the beginning of Dumbledore thinking about Voldemort's horcruxes.

i keep forgetting about this about everytime i finish the book! just remembering it makes my head hurt out of so many possibilities... but my true opinion is that this gave dumbledore the clue to know that harry was getting "possesed" (if you want to call it that) by voler. this is probably why he did not kill harry when voler took him over near the end of OotP. (sorry if this isn't very clear.)

I think that it means that they were sharing the same head and thoughts, but were still different people. That is a really tough question, and we might find out what it means in HPDH.

It's interesting that the object is a snake. And I love the idea that it could possibly be confirming a horcrux

Perhaps, it is a device invented by DD, to help him in his psychohistorical research of LV's life and doings.

Ihink he meant that harry and voldemort are similar andharry is able to get inside voldemort and see thr the snake's ees..wen he says is soul divided maybe he meant ha in soul harry and voldemort are different

I don't think it has anything to do with harry being a horcrux. I think it's more about the connection betwen Harry and Voldemort. Harry feeling Voldemort's feelings and get sights. Because there were this bond between them, and they were a bit familar to each other, but Harry wasn't possesed by Voldemort and wasn't more connected than just sharing strong feelings etc. A little like the thought Hary had in CS about him being like Voldemort.

OK, I'm just going to throw this out there. I believe in the whole Harry-is-a-horcrux theory, so my explanation relates to that. I think that the "Naturally" that Dumbledore said referred to the fact that he already knew that Voldemort and Harry were connected, or that he already knew that Voldemort had horcruxes. "In essence divided," could mean that Dumbledore was wondering if Harry being a horcrux was the reason they were connected. The snake probably represents Voldemort, but Nagini is a possibility also. I think that this all means that if Harry is a Horcrux, he has a link to all the other living Horcruxes, which we assume to be Voldemort and Nagini. To me, this makes sense and everything fits. Comments anyone?

when DD said is essence divided i think he was asking himself if voldemort existed in harry. i think he was saying that voldemort was not only in himself but in harry. its kind of hard to explain though. but i dont think that harry is a horcrux. i think that voldemort might have tried to create his (ossibly) seventh horcrux after killing harry but failed after the curse backfired.

i don't think dumbledore's reffering to nagini or voldemort or anyone else...the instrument can only refer to harry as he clearly using it to diagnose a possible explanation for that strange occurence of harry "seeing" arthur weasley being bitten.
so, "....in essence divided" must refer to the fact that harry's soul or perhaps powers (i do not mean love) is split due to survival of the death curse.
we may only guess as to how the essence is split..if it is split at all...

in fact, the essence may not be split at all, but "..in essence" may be nothing more than a parenthetical expression. this would mean that it is not the essence, but something else ,which is not revealed, has been split.

Sadly, this phrase must not mean anything overly important...




~Albus

Annoying isn't it... Missing out things... Oh well...

Ok as to the quote - in essence divided"

It still doesn't mean it can't have some signifagance it could sbe said in the 6th movie. I know that sounds strange ut take LOTR's for example Shelob the huge spider was in the 2nd book but in 3rd movie so maybe they could move the quote?? Prehaps??? Who knows.