I have been re-reading books four and five. I re-read book four just to see what they do leave out in the move when it does come out and book five to have it fresh in my memory for the next book.

As we all know Harry gets in trouble in Order for the use of magic out side of Hogwarts. When he goes to trile they state everytime he has used magic outside of Hogwarts. The time when Dobbie make the cake float, they said it was Harry, and of course when he blew up his aunt.

The one time that they didnt mention of Harry doing magic outside of Hogwarts was when he and Voldemort dueled in goblet of fire in the graveyard.

I wonder if the Ministry left that out because then they would have to fess-up that Voldermort was indeed alive again...

I didnt notice this the first time around when I read the books..
Hummmm I wonder....

yes, but then.. the shrieking shack is outside of school too.

Oh, that's a good observation there...

Okay, the number of times Harry's been using magic...

1st : Dobby floating the cake, he get a warning notice for that.

2nd : Harry blew up his aunt, he got away this time because the Ministry wants to keep him in the house, in case Sirius might try to get to him...

3rd : Harry's in the Shrieking Shack, (I think he uses the disarming charm in this one...y'know "Expelliarmus") He didn't get any warning for that. Maybe because it's within the wizarding world? It's in Hogsmeade, all wizard village. Or within the school term?

4th : Harry's dueling with Voldy. It is in a graveyard. And it's not within Hogwarts site. But we wouldn't know if the graveyard is within the wizarding world now, would we?

5th : Harry's saving Dudley from the Dementors. Now, he got a trial for that. Could it be because the Ministry try to bring him down since that was after he'd claimed he'd seen Voldy comes back, isn't it? And they weren't that fond of him like bofore, were they? And Magnolia Crescent is outside the wizarding world and it's not during the school term...what do you reckon?

I dont have book four with me right now, but it seems to me that Voldy had Harry tied up tp his father's headstone(Voldy's father). This might be a figment of my imagination, or i read it in a fanfic, and it blended into the real books, but if that is true, they would have been outside of the wizard world. Maybe the Ministry didnt warn him because Hogwarts was in session...

I think that the shrieking shack doesn't count because it's an all wizard village. As for the graveyard, maybe Voldemort had a spell put on it or something so that the ministry couldn't track it?

Harry (or any other wizard/witch for that matter) can't do magic in the prescences of Muggles and he can't do it out side of the school year so we have his warnings:
1st : Dobby floating the cake- outside of school year, infront of Muggles, although, as we all know, Dobby did the magic, not him.
2nd : Harry blew up his aunt- got away for his own safety, even though it was outside of school year and infront of Muggles.
3rd : Harry's in the Shrieking Shack- no warning, no Muggles and it was during the school year.
4th : Harry's dueling with Voldy- no warning, well, the Ministrey would have to admit Voldie's back, no Muggles were present, during the school year.
5th : Harry's saving Dudley from the Dementors- warniing, well trial actually. Infront of Muggles, outside of school year, and the Ministrey wan't really in the feeling to let him off now were they? Plus they wanted to go down hard on him and they didn't want to admit to any flaws they have with the way they are running wizarding Britian...

A few of you have been stating that (in CoS) Mrs. Weasley was the one who fixed Harry's glasses. This is incorrect. It was Mr. Weasley, and he fixed Harry's glasses with a tap of his wand and returned them to Harry as good as new. This was just before Mr. Weasley met Hermione's parents.
No offense to anyone, so please do not take any.

EDIT// I'm stating this because it was under the topic of "Underage Wizard Rules" which was a topic closed about a week ago.

This is sort of off topic, but gryffendork's post reminded me of it.

One of the things that bugs me most about the CoS movie is how Hermione is the one to fix Harry's glasses, when such a big deal is made about Harry supposedly doing magic.

It seems to contradict the Restriction to me....

Alright I have the screenplay:
In the movie Hermione does, indeed, fix Harry's glasses

Well this movie was for normal moviego-ers also and most of them wouldn't notice this so it probably didn't matter that Chris kept that in...

Personally, though, I think it shouldn't matter who the screenplay is written for, it should still stick to the cannon.

well i think that underage magic isnt fair. what if it was a deadly situation:Demantors,book 5
what happend in the shrieking shack again? i cant rember. i only read POA 3 times so i may need to read it again.

There is a clause in the restriction allowing magic to be used in deadly situations. The restriction is there mainly to keep young wizards from doing magic without thought in front of muggles, and so exposing the wizarding world.

I know about that clause but it stil isnt fair anyway. they should be "responsible" enough to know not to do anything stupid in front of muggles.

I don't think an eleven-year-old wizard is going to be responsible enough to restrain himself from doing magic just to show off. The restriction is there for a reason, and once a wizard or witch gets old enough to fully know what his or her responsibilities are, the restriction is lifted. This is much like the law that says kids under sixteen cannot drive. Sure, they could drive before then, and many are quite capable of it, but most kids aren't mature enough to drive safely on their own until they are sixteen.

It's true that Harry uses magic at the Shrieking Shack and in the graveyard during his duel with Voldemort... but like so many of you have said, it is probably considered legitimate for Harry to use magic to save his life.

However, there are three other instances in the books in which characters who were not of age used magic outside of Hogwarts and went unpunished. Yes, an argument can probably be made that these were minor uses of magic and that excuses could be made for these instances, but all the same...

1. Harry uses the spell "Lumos" after escaping from the Dursley's house in "Prisoner of Azkaban." He wants to get a better look at Sirius (although he doesn't know it's Sirius at the time, of course) and lights his wand. Possible excuse: Well, the Ministry was so worried for his safety at this time that they probably overlooked this spell for the same reason they overlooked the Aunt Marge incident (although I'd think wandless magic and magic with a wand are probably looked at differently from the legal perspective). I still have to ask, though, why Cornelius Fudge didn't mention this spell at Harry's hearing in "Order of the Phoenix" when he was listing off all of Harry's previous "crimes."

2. Ron and Hermione use the spell "Lumos" in the woods at the Quidditch World Cup in "Goblet of Fire." Ron trips over a tree root, he and Hermione light their wands, and Harry realizes that his own wand is missing. Possible excuse: The Ministry was in such a panic about the Roberts family, the Death Eaters at the campsite, and the Dark Mark that they completely disregarded the fact that a fourteen-year-old witch and wizard were lighting their wands in the woods.

"Lumos" is seeming like a pretty common crime, I notice... and finally...

3. Harry uses the spell "Lumos" during the dementor attack in "Order of the Phoenix." Dudley hits him in the darkness, and Harry says something like "wand... wand... Lumos!" and the wand lights up near his hand. I have no idea why the Ministry overlooked this one. The Patronus could be logically explained away in the hearing as self-defense, but you'd think the Fudge would have jumped on Harry's wand-lighting as another crime. "Lumos" didn't save Harry's life, after all...

What do you people think?

Okay here's the thing:
Underage wizards/witches cannot use magic outside the school year
EX: The graveyard- was during the school year.
The Sheirking Shack was during the school year.

Whay do I think this? Because at the end of the school year they get a notice saying that they can't use underage magic during summer break (Fred and George comment on this at the end of SS [US hardback edition] because they 'always hope they forget' the reminders)

I think Luoms is often overlooked because of how often it is used.

1. Harry uses the spell "Lumos" after escaping from the Dursley's house in "Prisoner of Azkaban." He wants to get a better look at Sirius
I think Fudge ignores this because of the urgency of this matter.. you know, serial killer searching for him and all...

2. Ron and Hermione use the spell "Lumos" in the woods at the Quidditch World Cup
I think this was allowed for two reasons
a) They were surrounded by others of the wizarding kind
There was the whole death eaters dark mark deal going on...

3. Harry uses the spell "Lumos" during the dementor attack in "Order of the Phoenix."
I think this was ignored because Fudge wanted to focus on the Patronus charm, 'Lumos' wouldn't have made quite as well of a case, espcially againsist Mrs. Bones.

I have to say i
Um the Magic rules are basically simple
Dumbledore said no magic is to be used btween classes and outside of the school and that's including the school summer holidays.
A lot of people already know this but unless you have been living under a rock for the pass few years get your heads in those books

Oh and Lumos is most likely allowed because it doesent do harm to others and anyone call do the spell really.
Dumbledore lets Harry, Ron and Hermione get away with using spells because he knows the reasons why the used magic in the first place

You guys ought to the read this post. It completely has to do with this topic...about underage magic. Harry and The Unforgivable Curse. It's not a fanfic. It has to do with the Crucio curse Harry performed at the end of OotP.

The 'not using magic outside classrooms' ie in the corridors is a Hogwarts rule (Finch's rule really) not a Ministry one. Its a Ministry one not to use magic in front of muggles and during the holidays. (I am assuming that those who stay at hogwarts during christmas and easter are excluded from this).

And the lumos spell during the dementor attack did save his life, he would be dead if he couldn't find his wand, and I imagine it helps being able to see what he is doing. It seems rather minor when compared to the patronus charm also.

I think the ministry stops paying attention during the school year, it probably assumes all the kids are at school so there is no need to keep an eye on it all. Could you imagine all the reports they would have to sort through.

Aaaah the crucio spell, well, it's wrong whether or not you are under age.

What always confused me, was that they could tell the difference between adults using magic (the Order coming to pick Harry up) but they could not tell that it was a house elf that hovered the cake. Maybe house elves can trick ministry reports or something....

A little off topic,but I have noticed other people doing under-age magic outside of school.*cough*Ginny*cough*

In book 5,chapter 6 page 100:

OoO! I was just thinking about this yesterday!

I am terribly upset about this because in the beginning of the 3rd movie, Harry uses a spell under the covers... stupid people, don't they know Hogwarts rules?

Also, in PoA, Harry grabs Hermione's wand to perform the disarming charm. Is it me, or does Hermione's wand have a great deal in the book or what!?

I don't think Lumos is really a spell that's against the rules, a muggle could easily assume that it's a flashlight or something, but regular spells like the Patronus charm and the hovering charm are more likely to be noticed.

And about those Bat-Bogey Hexes, I presume they most likely took place at school or on a Hogsmeade trip. Remember that Harry didn't hang out with Ginny in the earlier books.

well all these new events did take place at school time so he will not get done for this.

firstly i would like to bring something newish to this discussion, im sure i read, in one of the books, a conversation between harry and dumbledore. i am also pretty sure that dumbledore tells harry that the ministry can detect magic but not the culprate.

in otherwords they can trace the magic in an area/ house but not whose paforming it and therefore in a wizarding house it is concidered the responsibility of the parents to stop underage wizadry.

hence harry, living in little whinnig (or watever its called) he is the only wizard in the area and therefore they pinned the patronus, hover charm and blowing up his aunt on him.

however it is my belief that in other locations they have no way of knowing it was HP so in the graveyard it could be anyone and at the QWC (quidich wld cup) there were so many wizards/witches they couldnt tell anyway

jus a thaught

I believe that the students are not supposed to do magic outside of school during the summer. It’s mentioned at the end of book 1. That’s a good idea about the ministry finding out where Harry was though.

I THINK THAT NO ONE WAS ABLE TO DETECT HIM WHEN HE PERFORMED MAGIC BECAUSE VOLDY HAD MADE ALL ARRANGEMENTS SO THAT NO ONE WOULD DETECT HARRYS PRECENCE THERE IN THE GRAVYARD.

Exactly. If Tom has planned an elaborate ceremony for him to return to a proper corporeal form and eliminate Harry along the way, he would have ensured that the ministry would not be able to detect any magic being performed in the area or for that matter any muggles to venture near the graveyard on spotting something fishy. The whole area was probably made unplottable to avoid such circumstances. He would have taken extra precautions to ensure that the Triwizard cup portkey was not traceable to the spot as ministry and possibly Dumbledore could detect portkeys.

i think the ministry could detect harry doing magic, but they couldn't tell who did it, remember all sorts of adults were there. so the ministry probably thought it was just them who performed spells. but i can't know if the ministry knew the names of the people using there.

I think it was told sometime during the sixth book that the ministry could detect somone performing magic. But if there were wizards over 17 at the same place, they couldn't see if it was those or the underage wizard. And in the graveyard was lots of adults, so the ministry couldn't see it was Harry.
Sorry if you didn't get it. I did

Dumbledore or someone says in one of the books that the MoM can detect magic use but not the person that did it. That being said, in OOTP when Harry was attacked by the dementors, he used the patronus and saved both he and his cousin, but the MoM found out (of course) and sent him a owl telling him that they were coming to destroy his wand. Now they assumed it was him as with Dobby and the pudding incident because he is the only wizard in those parts. He recieves another owl from sirius telling him to do no more magic.

Enter the Guard. When they get there and Harry goes to his room to pack Tonks uses magic to pack his stuff. So unless they told the MoM that they were going to pick Harry up in this fashion they wouldn't know that it wasn't him therefore he would have been sent another owl or the MoM would have just showed up on his doorstep.

I don't think it ever said that they could tell underage magic from adult magic because didn't Mr. Weasley say that the parents were responsible for keeping their children in line and from doing underage magic.

Just something I realized as I was reading the book again.

Yes, I agree. Mr. Weasley did say that the Ministry can detect magic but not who does it. In the graveyard there were many adults so the Ministry could not tell if the person performing the magic was an adult or Harry.

Lumos could be an allowed magic because it would look like a flashlight to a muggle. Mr. Weasley says that muggles go to any lengths to ignore magic. However, an engorgio charm wouldn't be allowed because it isn't everyday that you see a woman swell to enormous legths and bounce on a ceiling.