I know this thread might be moved, but this is sort of a general question. I was reading the ending to PoS, and Voldy said that Harry's mother didnt have to die, but he did kill his father first, meaning his father did have to die. Now was voldy only after the Potters, meaning the male potters? are the potters some sort of heir? and if voldy really wanted to kill all of Harry's family, wouldnt he have killed the family on Lily's side as well, cause we all know that Voldy did indeed kill muggles, let me know what you think.

Mmm...yeah...interesting observation. Although maybe James had to die just because he had his wand out and was prepared to go out in a blaze of glory protecting his family, but I don't know about Lily. Maybe she was just standing there, holding Harry, with no wand....pleading for her son's life rather than fighting Voldemort, you know what I mean?

Or maybe Voldemort is just sexist - he doesn't see the need to hurt the women because he doesn't see them as a real threat to his power. Could prove to be a fatal mistake within the next couple of books, with Hermione being the exceptionally talented witch that she is.....

Well, I still think there might be something with the Potter blood line, if he only meant to kill the males.

That's a really good observation...you have good eyes BellatrixBlack!

Now that I think about it, I do find it weird that he said that she didn't really have to die...But almost like what Dana said, he just probably said that in order for her to step aside or something (since she was holding baby Harry), and Voldemort could have thought that if he said that, Lily would have put Harry down or something. Or, he probably knows for a fact that James is a stronger than Lily.

I don't think Voldemore is sexist though...He said that his most loyal death eater was Bellatrix (I'm 85% sure he said that...but if you can prove me wrong, I won't disagree). Okay, this doesn't really prove Voldemort to be sexist either...but you don't really see sexist problems in the books =\

Does it have anything to do with the fact that James is a pureblood? (Wait is he? lol. I'm pretty sure he is) Maybe Voldemort wanted to make a point and say, "Look, I'm a half-blood and I can beat all you purebloods". I don't know.

Hermione is intelligent, but she doesn't seem to last too long during battles. But you're right! While they were in OoTP, it was Luna, Ginny, Hermione, Ron, Neville and Harry. Three girls and three boys. In SS/PS, it's the trio. Then in Chamber of Secrets, Ron, Lockhart, and Harry (don't know if you want to count Ginny but she's outnumbered by guys). In PoA, in the Shrieking Shack, Hermione's the only girl. Umm I don't know how to count GoF but I guess that would be the Graveyard scene in which they are mostly guys. Maybe this is a foreshadowing of Voldemort's downfall. A woman!

I think Lily didn't have to die because she could have just ran and left her family to die. I think that's what it means. (You can't Apparate with the baby?)

Voldemort just knew that he would have to fight James because that's how the male wizards fight "honorably". I don't think males really consider a duel with a female duel challenging or honorable. It's a double standard used in sports today. It's a double standard Rowling uses for her books. Well that's just my opinion of course so. . .

I don't know, Bella. I think he just had to kill James because James wanted to fight him. Remember in the 4th book that Voldy talks about his fighting James. They dueled. So, maybe that's why James had to die, becuase he asked Voldy to duel? Maybe? That's what I kinda think happened. Maybe if he hadn't been there or hadn't dueled with Voldy he wouldn't have had to die at all. OR Voldy knew that James would want to fight and decided to kill him before hand, already knowing that James would fight to death anyway.
I don't know about your theory with the blood line thing. Remember Voldy knew about the prophecy a little bit when he went to kill baby Harry. Other than that I don't think Voldy even really worried about that family. But you can never be sure with JKR. Maybe you're right and I'm wrong or vise versa, or we're all far away from the truth. Who knows, I just hope the book comes out soon so that we can have some of our questions answered.

Hmmmmm.........very interesting......'course, I don't really like theorizing, I prefer to read the books Lol.....but good observation. I like the girl power thing! Woohoo! lol sorry guys lol.

oh it all good.......................so many theorys so littel time they all seem like they happen ..............so feackin comuseing

Well, Dumbledore did say that Voldy didnt understand love, so he wouldnt understand why James would want to protect Harry seeing as how Voldy never had parternal love. I still say there is more to this.

He doesn't understand the way love works, yes, and he's never had love and never gave love, yes, but for him to atomatically think that someone else doesn't love someone enough to die protecting them would just make him plain stupid, and we all know that Voldemort is anything but stupid. Up to this point he has been pretty smart. So I think that he may not understand why people love and all that, but I think he does realize that other people love and I think that he prepared himself for that with James. He KNEW how James would be, and he anticapated it and decided to kill him.

Lily, on the other hand was something different, I think he just figured since she's a woman and all that, that she would be too scared to stand up and protect Harry. I think that's what he thought. But when she did he killed her.

I never said stupid, I said he doesnt understand love, there is a difference. And I dont think Voldy thought that Lily was scared of him, if he didnt think James wouldnt be scared of him why would he think Lily would? I mean they both defeated Voldy 3 times if I remember right, so Lily has fought Voldy just as much as James, so why not kill her unless she wasnt a real threat to him like James and Harry?

I never said you meant he was stupid. I just said to say something like Voldy doesn't understand that other people love would make him stupid that's all, doofy. And it just says that Lily and James DEFIED Voldy three times, that doesn't necassarily mean that they fought him or anything. Defy means: to disobey, rebel, resist, etc. It doesn't just mean that they fought him in battle and all that. And until JKR tells us about it we can't know for sure if they ever battled Voldy in person other than at the time of their deaths.

Okay defied, yes, but then that just means that Lily did as much against Voldy as James did. So then why did Voldy only want to kill James and Harry and not Lily?

*sigh* you do tend to give me a headache. lol.

Well, let's think about this: 1. the prophecy is why Voldy wanted to kill Harry (obviously) and he planned on killing James once he'd figured out he had to kill Harry. Maybe he didn't plan Lily's death because he just didn't see her as a threat. 2. Voldy never really narrowed in on the Potter family UNTIL he heard about the prophecy. If the Potter line had mean marked for some other reason there would have been more attempts to kill them, and so far we haven't heard anything about that. So, we really don't know anything until the 6th book comes out.

I'm so sorry to go off topic, but I just have to tell you how much I absolutely love your avatars!! They always make me laugh!! Do you make them yourself? You a 'Princess Bride' fan too then, huh?!

Anyway, yeah, I agree with you, Lucius....I just think that Voldemort never regarded Lily as a threat. He doesn't understand love so he wouldn't be able to understand why Lily would stand there and give her life to protect her son, which was why he probably said that there was no need for her to have died.

At least James and Lily both died on their feet, fighting for their son.....I guess that was the best they could have hoped for under the circumstances.

I just hope that eventually, there is a scene at the end of the series just like Inigo Montoya's at the end of the Princess Bride....**tee hee** Such a cool film.... Boy, I can't wait to see Voldy getting his come-uppance.

Yes, I am a HUGE Princess Bride fan, not to mention a Cary Ewles(can't spell) fan! lol. No, I don't make my avatars, I don't have the program to do that...yet. I get them from a journal site.

At any rate, yeah he just didn't think that she would stand there and fight for Harry. THAT kind of love he couldn't understand.

And it would be really funny if Harry were to say something like Inigo did. But that won't happen. I don't think they'll talk overly much, some but not much. If it were me I'd just want to kick his butt as soon as I could. lol.

(Have you read the book or just seen the movie, Dana? (Princess Bride) I've done both)

Alright I havent seent that movie. The whole point of this thread was to see if there was anything with the Potter blood line. And again, if James had done just as much as Lily, why would Voldy only consider James a threat and not Lily?

There's a book too?! Is it original or based on the movie? The movie I saw....years and years ago! When Fred Savage was oh so young and innocent... I absolutely loved Inigo....I think it's a very close toss-up between him and Wesley as to who I fancied the most, actually! One of THE best films of all time, IMHO...they just don't make 'em like that anymore...**sigh** I always kinda wondered if Peter Falk (the grandpa) was telling his own story, you know? Particularly after that 'as you wish' stuff..... And I've always loved Cary Elwes too...ever since Robin Hood:Men in Tights and the stint he did in the X-Files, of course!!

Anywho....look at me....going off on one again....

I still wish that Harry would say something like that though...

On the subject of who Voldy meant to kill though....it certainly indicates that Voldemort is ultimately very afraid of Harry and what he might become, isn't he? I know part of that is based on the Prophecy, but I'm wondering if he might know anything else about the future? I think JKR definitely always intended to bring in the prophecy and some other things with book 5 because when I read PS again a while ago, I remember seeing something about the quarrel between Snape and James, and then in PoA, DD says something about Trelawney's accurate prediction score now totalling 2 - including the prophecy. Evidence, I think, that she has always had something very clear in her mind right from the start about where she's going with this whole thing (even though some people said that she couldn't possibly have done...not in the early days) and I'm sure that there's a lot more about what happened that night - and before - that has still to be told....

Im kinda confused (don't try to explain it to me it will probably make things worse) I didn't try very hard to understand it though

Sorry...but what on earth was the point of that last post? I think someone' just trying to get their post count up and that makes me a bit cross to be honest.

If you have something constructive to add, then please do so, otherwise don't bother to post at all.

Hum, I also wonder if Dumbeldore knows as well. JK did say one of the questions we need to ask ourselves is how much does Dumbledore know. I still say that James and Lily were both and equal threat to Voldy, so then why was Voldy going to spear her and not James? We all knew he had to kill Harry, but what about his parents?

*coughsSPELLCHECKcoughs* Love you, Bella.

I really don't think that Voldy wanted to kill off the Potter blood line. It was just a plain and simple thing for him: "the prophecy said someone was gonna be able to defeat me, I'll kill him while he's still no threat to me and why not get rid of his dad along the way." (I still say that he didn't really think of Lily as a threat and therefor didn't worry about her)

But not see Lily as a threat? How come he would kill other families, yet he wanted to leave Lily alone? Okay, I bet this really has nothing to do with the story, or maybe it does, I dunno. And Lucius, you know I cant spell worth my life, must you point it out?

Yes. *grins evily*


I just don't really see your theory being...right (for lack of better word). It just doesn't make sense. *shrugs* But you know I love you and it was a very smart theory and it was interesting to think about.

Right? Its not really a theory, it was mainly a question. Why, if Voldy could kill whole families, and he was going to kill Harry and James, why not kill Lily too? Why was he willing to spare her life? Thats what I want to know. Maybe it doesnt have anything to do with the Potter blood line, maybe it does. Maybe it all has to do with Lily, I dont know.

Yeah, maybe Snape really did like Lily and asked his master to spare her life if he could or something. It could really be anything. And it could be something important or it could be something that means nothing. We'll only know when we get that last book in our hands. lol.

I have a possible answer that may shine light in another place as well: How much of the prophecy in OotP did Voldy hear? Why did James and Harry have to die?

James and Lily were the owners of the house in Godric Hollow, right? Maybe the Fidelmus Charm (spelling?) ends once the owners are dead, so Voldemort wanted to leave one of them alive until after he had finished disposing of Harry.

The other possibility is that Voldemort lied about Lily not having to die. In Sorcerer's Stone, Voldemort lied about Harry's parents begging for mercy. Harry yells "LIAR" at him and then Voldemort tells him that his mother needn't have died. This may have been a lie, too.

Just a quick thought on the subject. I think Voldemort told Lily that was because he only cared about Harry. The prophecy stated that the child would be his downfall. He might have told her she could live, because he didn't care about Lily at all. It didn't really matter to Voldemort to kill her, because he only wanted to kill Harry. The one person who could destroy him. The reason he probably killed James, was because he blocked the door that Lily and Harry were behind, so in order to get to Harry, he had to kill James.
If not that, then I agree with Voldemort lying to Liily to force her into a false security.

I think that Voldemort could understand the pride in what james did, but not the love for wich lily gave her life. Therefor he saw james as a threat but lily just as an enoying girl begging for her sons life.

I wondered why Voldemort was telling Lily to 'stand aside, silly girl' too. Doesn't really fit with Voldemorts brutallity, does it? I mean, he was there to kill an innocent baby, and yet he was willing to let the mother live, a woman who not only defied Volemort 3 times already, but who would surely seek revenge or justice for the murder of her child. I guess there is more to that story than we have yet been told.

I dont think Voldemort was there to wipe out a blood line though, because if you remember, there were two possible contenders of the prophecy, he could also have chosen Neville. Though maybe he would have tried to kill Neville eventually too if he hadn't been destroyed by his own hand that night.

This also begs the question, why is it that Lily giving her life for Harry gave him the 'Love' protection that saved him from Quirrel, but not his fathers sacrifice who also died trying to save his wife and his son that night? (I saw this question on Mugglenet, and thought it was also interesting)

yeah maybe there is something wer not getting in the books something jk rowwling hasnt yet told us coz we dont no much about his parents do we why did they go into hiding

Ok, this is an old thread, but I noticed no one mentioned Snape!!!!!! Once I saw his name, but it wasn't refered to as a reason of Voldemort's slight show of "kindness" towards the mother. Lilly, increasing amounts of evidence suggest, meant something to Snape, don't you think Voldemort might have known this? I'm sure he did/and does(but whether that matters now...). I believe there's a slight chance Vold's repression of murderous intent may have been grudgingly only Voldemort's part for Snape. After Snape discovered where Voldemort was heading, he may have implored Voldemort to spare Lilly's life, probably not thinking of James or Harry at all, not inclined to care. So in fury of attack Voldy might have shed a thought for Snape's wishes, as Snape had, anyway, relayed the important message of the prophecy and seemed loyal enough; but as Lilly was too persistant, Voldemort couldn't spend precious time for his mere followers and the brief hold out ended. In the end it may have been snapes reason to turn to Dumbledore... Voldemort killed Lilly Evans.

Of course, this is all theory, but it actually fits the facts we have. It might be the key to that Snape Timeline confusion someone was having... in an other thread.

**deleted**

I was curious why Lilly did not try and fight Voldemort. Would this make her love sacrifice invalid? Did it need to be a slaughter, instead of self-defense?

Does it have anything to do with the fact that Snape had asked Voldemort to spare Lily and just kill the male Potters? And when he realized Lily wasnt going down with a fight, he just killed her? I could be wrong, but it's just a guess. =]

i know you probably all know this by know because DH explains this... but worked it out during reading OOTP for the 2nd time after HP has just broken it snapes mind and i worked it out that snape loved lily when she was so disgusted with him for calling her a mudblood


snape was a death eater... and he relayed what he heard of the prophecy to voldy and then disovered that voldemort has concluded that lilypotter was to give birth to this child
so snape must have said that killing her was unneccary or some how tried to persuade voldemort
voldemort, not wanting snape to turn against gave lily the chance not to die 'stand aside' but she didnt so he killed her too
so snape was realy on DD side a was like triple agenting to protect harry the last of lily...
so snape hates harry because its a reminder that lily had kids with james not him

I am wiping all the things from my mind of the last two books!

Snape was in love with Lily, like rach2603 says. Snape was also a Death Eater and probably still was one during the murder of the Potters. Snape may have learned of Voldemort's plan to kill the Potters, and begged him not to kill Lily, and that he could maybe change her to their side, or something of the sort.