**chuckles** That's got to be one of the best ones I've heard yet....LMAO.......

A draw....now there's a concept. The images just boggle the mind....

Nice one....

A point that im not sure means much but il make anyway.

The majority of coverted shippers are ones that were once R/Hr and are now H/Hr. Its a moot point that either means R/Hr shippers are slacking off or that myabe there is a real chance for H/Hr.

I used to be a R/Hr shipper though I must admit I never really liked the idea, I just thought it was really obvious. I am now a converted H/Hr shipper I don't know if there is truth in the fact that most converted shippers followed the same path as me ... but there you are.

One thing that I cannot understand is alot [though not all, thankfully] of R/Hr shippers like to point to the fact that perhaps Ron and Hermione could have had something going in the holidays. Then they point to the Hermione kissing Ron scene as evidence of their ship!

If they already had something going why was Ron so stunned by the display of affection Hermione gave him? Also why Ron is obviously stunned by the kiss Harry's POV leaves Hermione and we have no idea how she felt about it so we are still left with no idea how the kiss was intended or of Hermione's feelings.

In Canon we have clear evidence that Hermione always drops anything to come to Harry's aid, or to try and persude him to be safe. My main beef with a R/Hr ship is that Ron [with his whole middle child complex] would understandably want his GF to place him above all others, and it is obvious [at least to me] that she wouldn't be able to.

I personally don't want to see Ron [one of my favorite chars, right up there with Snape] placed in a relationship with a GF that would hold another guy in a place of more importance to her. He really needs a girl who places him on a pedastal and Hermione definately doesn't as evidenced throughout the entire series.

While I freely admit that Ron has some feelings for Hermione, that he doesn't truly have a grip on yet I can't see her placeing Ron above Harry on her priorities list. Not a good basis for a romantic relationship. Just because Ron has feelings for Hermione doens't mean they should or will get together, after all like Dumbledore says people don't always know whats best for them.

Sorry about the personal Opinion thoughout this post, but I find alot of direct quoteing doesn't really help the matter. Any 'ship at this stange is between the lines and direct quoteing only helps in removeing context. Anyways takes what you will, I personally love reading R/Hr fanfic and essays just as much as any other, it's all in the name of good fun after all.

- Babs

This really does not have MUCH to do with shipping directly, but it does form a solidsupport to R/Hr, comparing lily/James to Ron/Hermione.

not written by me, but by darkBlue of Mugglenet, I thought I would post it here, to see what you guys (or gals) think of it...

Harry inherited his father’s hair and his mother’s eyes. But it has become more and more evident, particularly through numerous re-readings of OotP, that Harry has much more than his father’s hair and his mother’s eyes. I think Harry almost has his mother and father, not as parent figures, but as people who nevertheless play important roles in his life. Here I am speaking of Ron and Hermione.

Hermione and Lily

The glaring similarity between Lily and Hermione is that they are both muggle-born. Though this may be a relatively superficial comparison, it is an important one in the wizarding world. Dumbledore himself implies that Voldemort chose Harry as his nemesis over Neville because he related to Harry’s half-blood parentage.

Moreover, Lily and Hermione’s "mudblood" status has affected them in similar ways. For one, it has spurred them on to high academic achievement, almost as though they worked harder to make up for their familial "disadvantage." Lily was Head Girl in her day, and I would honestly be shocked if the same honor was not bestowed upon Hermione.

Secondly, as a product of being muggle-born, and perhaps, of their natures as well, both Hermione and Lily seem to follow a principle of fairness in their actions, particularly if it involves protecting others. In Snape’s worst memory, Lily standing up for Snape reminded me intensely of Hermione and her founding of S.P.E.W. I could see Hermione, if put in the same position, standing up for Snape, and showing the same high spirit and tenacity to Harry and Ron that Lily showed to James and Sirius. But despite her penchant for upholding rules, Hermione is often betrayed by her sense of humor towards the boys’ antics. Lily is shown to have a similar problem after James suspends Snape in midair:

Lily, whose furious expression had twitched for an instant as though she was going to smile, said, "Let him down!"
When I read on JKR’s website that she had originally planned to give Hermione a sister, but then felt it would be too late to bring it up, I immediately thought of Lily’s sister, Petunia. This completed the analogy for me; had Hermione actually been given a sister, her family would have been exactly like Lily’s. We are told very little about Lily, but from whatever I do know about her, when I try to imagine her at 15 years of age, I picture Hermione as we see her today.
Ron and James

This is a harder one to discuss because we are so used to seeing comparisons made between Harry and James. But, like Harry in the following scene of OotP, I see a more potent similarity between James and Ron.

The truth was that Ron had just reminded Harry forcibly of another Gryffindor Quidditch player [James] who had once sat rumpling his hair under this very tree.
I think it has even been said by JKR that James was a keeper like Ron as well (though this is still debated due to the SS/PS film). Quidditch aside, Ron seems like James in other subtler ways.
The way that James seemed to follow Sirius’s lead during Snape’s worst memory reminded me of the way Ron follows Harry’s lead. In the scene where Sirius speaks to Harry through the Gryffindor fire, he tells Harry, "You’re less like you father than I thought." Sirius says this because James, unlike Harry, would have followed along with whatever Sirius wanted to do. Ron is the same type of friend to Harry that James was to Sirius. As he says to Hermione in OotP,

"I dunno," said Ron, looking alarmed at being asked to give an opinion. "If Harry wants to do it, it’s up to him, isn’t it?"
Another major similarity is the fact that Ron and James come from wizarding families, both of which were, as far as we know, strongly against the Dark Arts. Harry asks Sirius where he went when he ran away, and Sirius responds,
"Your dad’s place. Your grandparent’s were really good about it, they sort of adopted me as a second son. Yeah, I camped out at your dad’s in the school holiday."
This comment reminds me forcibly of the Weasleys and the way they, and especially Ron, welcome Harry into their home.
The Ron/Hermione Dynamic and the James/Lily Dynamic

First of all, I am NOT making an argument for a Ron/Hermione ship or any such thing because I don’t want to get involved in that whole debate and, frankly, the potential romances in the series are not as interesting to me as other themes. That said, and romance aside, there are notable parallels between what we have seen of the relationship between James and Lily and that of Ron and Hermione. Ron and Hermione seem to bicker just the way we see James and Lily argue over the treatment of Snape. The conversation that Harry observes in the Pensieve could have almost occurred between Hermione and Ron as much as James and Lily.

Additionally, Ron seems to try and impress Hermione in the same way that James tried to impress Lily. After being selected for the Gryffindor Quidditch team, Ron says,

"I can’t believe it--where’s Hermione gone?"
"She’s there," said Fred and pointed to an armchair. Hermione was dozing in it.
"Well, she said she was pleased when I told her," said Ron, looking slightly put out.
This scene is one of many such scenes which remind me of the way James behaves around Lily. As Sirius himself said,
"Oh well, James always made a fool of himself whenever Lily was around. He couldn’t stop himself showing off whenever he got near her."
Conclusions
I rarely make predictions. On all of the Mugglenet polls that ask what we think will happen in the future I consistently choose the "I’m terrible at Divination" option. Therefore I am by no means predicting that, like James and Lily, Ron and Hermione will get together, start dating in seventh year, die to save Harry’s life, etc. These may be valid theories, and worthy of discussion, but I am hesitant to make them on this evidence alone.

Furthermore, I am not really a "theory" person even if it doesn’t involve predictions. Therefore, I am not about to extend my Lily/Hermione and James/Ron comparison to include the rest of the Marauders nor any other Hogwarts students of that time, i.e. Snape/Malfoy, Lupin/Luna, nor Pettigrew/Neville. In particular, I am refraining from making a Sirius/Harry comparison. This is for three reasons:

1. I really don’t find Harry and Sirius to be all that much alike.

2. To say that every Hogwarts student of today had an older counterpart would serve only to dilute the strength of my Lily/Hermione and James/Ron argument.

3. I truly believe that all characters in the series are original. Of course, parallels can be drawn, but JKR puts too much effort into her stories for characters to be merely cardboard cut outs of other characters.

All the same, I make the exception for Hermione and Ron because the similarities to Lily and James are, I believe, too phenomenal to ignore. Of course, my argument may seem premature as we have seen very little of Lily and James. However, what we have seen is remarkably close to what we know about Ron and Hermione. And it is difficult for me to imagine that it is an accident that Harry, deprived of Lily and James, was given Hermione and Ron as the two principle influences in his life.



well, there you go. to me, it makes pretty good since, but hey, thats just me.

~Esrb99~

I completely agree. That is a very intelligent way of looking at it.

I also loved in the Order of the Pheonix Harry's little comparison of Ron and Hermione to Ron's parents as they bicker. I found it hilarious, though I must state that I hate the idea of them bickering like 'an old married couple'. I think that sounds funny on paper but makes the relationship lose it's edge. 'An old married couple' are comfortable and have gone through all of the steps (or most) in their relationship. I don't believe this to be true for Ron and Hermione. I think their bickering is simply because they have feelings for each other and therefore frustrate each other and themselves.

All in all I think it's cute though.

Thank youvery much
Here's more evidence, found as a Veritaserum editorail!!!!

'He Said, She Said'
by Long Live the Weasel King!
January 24, 2005


Well, now we have had two disparate views of the connection between Harry and Hermione, and I, for one, think it is time for a male to give voice to his opinion.

This editorial is both a review of the previous two relationship articles, and a filler piece for points which both left out. For, while both articles were arguments for why, or why not, Harry and Hermione would form a relationship, there is one aspect which Lisa, author of "A Heart Once Given . . .", quickly dismissed, and Angua, author of "D'you Really Think They're Suited?" only briefly mentioned: Ronald Weasley.

While I understand that both authors were giving an exhaustive look on the relationship solely between Harry and Hermione, neither one took into an account that peoples' relationships are also based off of their feelings for others outside of said relationship.

And lastly, we will look, not at where the story seems to be headed, but rather at where JK Rowling is taking it. Because, when all is said and done, the characters' loves, motivations, and choices all belong to her.

I will also operate under the assumption that anyone who cares to read such articles will have read the books for themselves, and do not need me to point out every instance where the characters have come into contact with each other. Which will hopefully both make my editorial shorter, and keep it relatively free of page numbers. I will endeavor to use quotes as little as possible, and only to illustrate a point.

The first editorial was "A Heart Once Given . . ." so it is logical to begin there. To be fair, I went into this article with a firm background of disbelief. "Ron and Hermione all the way!" was my thought, and I was surprised that this article was able to sway my opinion at all. Which to be sure, it did. When I was finished, I began to think that perhaps Hermione has unspoken feelings for Harry, just as the author was trying so valiantly to display. It was also apparent, through the same article, that Harry had no such feelings for Hermione, and thought of her as no more than a "good friend." Something that I believe was known to the author, though she tried to hide it as best she could by never mentioning what Harry might have been feeling during the instances she illustrated.

Yet, upon rereading the many quotes this article used as evidence, while skipping over the overly romanticized, wishful thinking of the author's interpretation of these quotes, I realized that none of them show any sign of romantic feelings on the part of Hermione. Rather, they show only the platonic love one feels for any friend who is going through a rough spot, and is in danger of coming upon serious injury, death, or other general dismemberment.

It also operates upon a fatal flaw. The author states, time and again, that Hermione chooses to spend more time with Harry than Ron, citing instances such as Harry's row with Ron where they were not speaking to each other in the first half of GoF, and she spends a lot of time with Harry in the Library. Lisa states, "One would wonder, therefore, why she chooses to spend more time with Harry, knowing that it could fuel Ron's insecurities further - it would seem a rather odd decision to make, if she is supposed to be developing feelings for Ron."

Well, why would she choose to spend time with Harry instead of Ron when they are estranged from each other? It is simple if you look at the root of the argument. Ron believes Harry put his own name in the Goblet of Fire, and feels left out. While Hermione knows that this is untrue. Hermione also spends much time trying to reconcile them, going back and forth between them, trying to get each to apologize. She knows the truth, and so she is supporting Harry. Ron, at this time, does not wish to hear the truth, or be around anyone who supports Harry in this, so Hermione has no choice but to spend time with Harry, as her other constant companion is operating under an assumption that she knows to be untrue.

The statement is also flawed in that it comes before the Yule Ball, which is when Ron first comes to realize that Hermione is in fact female, and that his interest in her may be more than that of a friend. Something that Hermione realizes before even the Weasel King! and Harry agrees with.

(pg 432 GoF, Am. Scholastic pb, ed.)
"Well, if you don't like it, you know what the solution is, don't you?" yelled Hermione; her hair was coming down out of its elegant bun now, and her face was screwed up in anger.
"Oh yeah?" Ron yelled back. "What's that?"
"Next time there's a ball, ask me before someone else does, and not as a last resort!"
Ron mouthed soundlessly like a goldfish out of water as Hermione turned on her heel and stormed up the girls' staircase to bed. Ron turned to look at Harry.
"Well," he spluttered, looking thunderstruck, "well - that just proves - completely missed the point -"
Harry didn't say anything. He liked being back on speaking terms with Ron too much to speak his mind right now - but he somehow thought that Hermione had gotten the point much better than Ron had.

Hermione's anger, and her disparaging of Ron's methods for choosing a date to the Yule Ball before any of this happens, shows that she is jealous of the type of girls that Ron is attracted to, and angry that he does not see her in this light. In fact, it is my personal belief that the whole reason she spent so much time making herself up, was to show Ron that she could look like those girls if she chose, but that she considers it a waste of time. Case in point, look at the many times she glances at Ron to see if he notices throughout the course of the Yule Ball, as well as Ron constantly searching for her, never making the connection between the "pretty girl in a blue dress" and Hermione, because he simply cannot believe that Hermione could, or would, so drastically change her appearance.

The author also conveniently chooses to skip over instances where Hermione spends time solely in Ron's company. The most telling of these are at the beginning of OotP, while Harry is trapped at the Dursleys', and Hermione and Ron are together at Number 12, Grimmauld Place. Despite the many other people that are there, Hermione chooses to spend her time with Ron. Over the course of many weeks, it would seem they formed a bond, much like that shared between Harry and Ron.

(pg. 64 OotP, Am. hb. ed.)
[Harry] glanced up just in time to see them exchanging a look that told him he was behaving just as they had feared he would.

This is the sort of silent communication that we have seen many times between Harry and Ron, but this was the first time it has been displayed between Hermione and Ron. It happens quite a few more times throughout the fifth book. Such as when Hermione brings up her idea for starting a Defense Against the Dark Arts Group. Also note that when Harry arrived at Grimmauld Place, Hermione was alone with Ron in his room, showing that they spent time together, rather than with Ginny or the Twins.

It is safe to say that since the argument in the Gryffindor common room after the Yule Ball, Hermione and Ron have both come to realize that they may have feelings for each other and their attitudes toward each other have changed. They have a conversation without Harry, I might add, where they agree to stop bickering all the time in OotP. From that point on they both manage to keep their opinions and tempers largely in control. Though not completely, and I ask you, where would the fun be in that if they did?

Furthermore, the many arguments between Hermione and Ron show that they are both passionate people, and this passion is often released on each other. For those who believe that a relationship where the couple argues so much will not last, look at the Weasel King!s own parents. They bicker constantly, and yet they have a happy and healthy relationship, and obviously no trouble in the bedroom.

While "A Heart Once Given . . ." does an excellent job of putting a romantic spin on Hermione's feelings toward Harry, it completely dismisses the laundry occasions where she displays the same sort of feelings for Ronald Weasley, and perhaps a bit more. She often uses Krum to incite feelings of jealousy in Ron, while Harry is completely unfazed.

Then there is the other end of the spectrum. "D'you Really Think They're Suited?" is an attempt to show the side of the relationship which Lisa's article never commented on. Harry's feelings for Hermione.

However, Angua took it to a rather far end of the spectrum I would label, "extreme." She uses the many instances where Harry is annoyed at Hermione's behavior to paint a picture that comes close to hatred, and ends at barely tolerating her presence, for the sole sake of Ron's feelings. While I do not believe this was the author's intent, it would appear from the comments of my fellow readers that this is the understanding that they reached as well.

Hermione is the living embodiment of Harry's "Voice of Reason." She is the cool logic that often plays devil's advocate for Ron's rather wilder, more foolhardy views. Harry and Ron can both be reckless and quick to jump to conclusions. They also have a strong streak of procrastination, and their willingness to copy others' homework and notes show that they are both members of a rather old and time-honored Tribe to which I have the honor to be a member. They are both slackers.

Without Hermione, they would both be in danger of failing and dropping out. Imagine if she were not a member of their little circle at all. Rather than spend any time studying and doing schoolwork, they would both no doubt be playing Wizard Chess and sneaking off to the Quidditch Pitch to fly their brooms. This is a fact that both Harry and Ron realize. While Harry finds constant studying to be boring, and Ron would simply find something else to do, both of them flounder helplessly when Hermione refuses to allow them to copy her notes, or to check their homework.

While Harry and Ron both become annoyed with Hermione's constant nagging about their homework, and are exasperated by her "know-it-all" attitude, it is a mild annoyance, and an amused exasperation, that neither one of them would trade. With friends you take the bad with the good.

Yet, I agree that this attitude of Harry's shows that he is incompatible with Hermione on a romantic level. Harry shows beyond a doubt that he is bored senseless when he spends time with Hermione alone, participating in activities that she enjoys. The impression I got from their time in the Library together was more that this is what Hermione would be doing regardless, and she allowed Harry to spend the time with her, as generally he would have been playing Wizard Chess or Exploding Snap with Ron during these times. As both Harry and Ron always believe Hermione is in the Library when one asks the other where she is, this seems rather logical.

The fact remains, however, that Harry and Hermione seem incapable of enjoying time spent together without Ron. While Ron and Hermione, on the other hand, seem to enjoy each other's company and get along well even when Harry is not there. As most of their arguments stem from what they think is Harry's best course of action, I would even stipulate that they do not argue so much when he is not around. The evidence for this exists in the time they spent at Grimmauld Place alone, time which we, as mute eyes in Harry's head did not get to witness.

The effects of this time, however, are plain throughout the remainder of OotP, as I mentioned above. Also in Ron's new attitude toward Hermione. He agrees with her more often, and seems to consider what she says before shooting it down. On Hermione's part, Ron seems to be able to exercise some calming influence over her when she is being adamant about a course of action Harry should or should not take.

(pg. OotP, Am. hb. ed.)
"Harry, don't do it, please don't do it!" Hermione said in anguished tones as the bell rang at the end of the class.
He did not answer; he did not know what to do. Ron seemed determined to give neither his opinion nor his advice. He would not look at Harry, though when Hermione opened her mouth to try dissuading Harry some more, he said in a low voice, "Give it a rest, okay? He can make up his own mind."

This strangely sympathetic admonishment on the Weasel King!s part shows both an astounding maturity and an understanding of Hermione's motivation. It also shows that he has learned that the best way to keep her from pestering someone is not to flare up in their defense, but rather with a cool, calming word. It shows that he is beginning to understand Hermione, and though he may not always agree with her, he understands Harry well enough to know that Harry is going to do what he decides is right, no matter what anyone says.

Despite Ron's ofttimes oblivious behavior, he is actually the one of the three who understands people's inner workings the best. This shows itself in his skill at Wizard's Chess, his ability to know what his opponents are going to do next, as well as his giving thought to what someone is really thinking or feeling rather than what they are actually saying. This clear understanding is generally characterized by an "unusually shrewd expression on [Ron's] face." (pg. 460 OotP, Am. hb. ed.)

The mysteries explored in the previous two Relationship essays, are what Hermione's feelings are for Harry, and what Harry's feelings are for Hermione, respectively. Yet, both of the articles left out the most telling piece of canon JK Rowling has given us.

Cho Chang.

The fact that Harry looks outside of the trio for romantic relationships is the most obvious evidence toward his feelings for Hermione. Just as Hermione's reaction to this is the most obvious evidence for her feelings for Harry. Far from feeling jealous or jilted, Hermione seems to like Cho, and honestly tries to help Harry with his feelings toward her.

After the first meeting of the future DA in the Hog's Head, Hermione comments,

(pg. 349 OotP, Am. hb. ed.)
"And talking about Micheal and Ginny . . . what about Cho and you?"
"What do you mean?" said Harry quickly.
It was as though boiling water was rising rapidly inside him; a burning sensation that was causing his face to smart with the cold - had he been that obvious?
"Well," said Hermione, smiling slightly, "she just couldn't keep her eyes off you, could she?"
Harry had never before appreciated just how beautiful the village of Hogsmeade was.

Hermione's understanding of Harry's predicament extends to the knowledge that Harry feels insecure about himself where Cho is concerned, and she makes this comment realizing that it will make Harry happy, and hopefully goad him into realizing that Cho likes him just as much as he likes her. Is this the action of a girl harboring unrequited love? If that were true, would not she have never brought it up, and just dwelled on it in silence, letting Harry flounder and flail?

And this is not the extent of Hermione's relationship counseling for Harry. At the last DA meeting before Christmas holiday, Cho kisses Harry, as we all know, and he returns to the Gryffindor common room with mixed feelings about this, in a shocked state. Hermione and Ron both pick up on this instantly. Far from sulking in a fit of jilted jealousy, Hermione tries to explain Cho's feelings, and speaks about it in a brisk, business like way. Not at all like someone who is heart broken that another girl is smooching her sweetheart in private, secluded areas.

In fact, that whole section is filled with items that point to what the trio feels for each other. It is far too long to quote the whole section, and I know you've all read it already, so why don't I just give you the page numbers and you can decide for yourselves? Pg 457-461 OotP Am. Scholastic, hb, ed. And I'll just highlight some of the finer points.

(pg. 458) Harry looked from Ron's _expression of mingled curiosity and hilarity to Hermione's slight frown, and nodded.

I quote this so you may note that Hermione's slight frown is not for the subject, but for Ron's rather rambunctious outburst of a moment before.

(pg. 460) "You just had to be nice to her," said Hermione, looking up anxiously. "You were, weren't you?"
"Well," said Harry, an unpleasant heat creeping up his face, "I sort of - patted her on the back a bit."
Hermione looked as though she was restraining herself from rolling her eyes with great difficulty.
"Well, I suppose it could have been worse," she said. "Are you going to see her again?"

Note her anxiousness. Hermione is honestly concerned that Harry may have blown his chances. She knows that Harry has "liked her for ages" and she does not want to see him be miserable if Cho starts giving him the cold shoulder.

What girl gives honest advice about other girls to a boy she likes, I ask you?

I have actually used that as a tactic to find out if a girl likes me or not. Ask any girl who likes you about advice on how to get another girl, and she will become obviously agitated, and quite peckish. If she does not feel romantically toward you, she will honestly try to help out. Which is exactly what Hermione did for Harry.

As we all know, Ron has obviously come to realize he has a thing for Hermione. He even begins to hate his greatest Quidditch hero when he becomes a rival for her affections. So I will not bother trying to convince anyone of the Weasel King!s feelings for Hermione. It is known. It is also made perfectly clear in GoF, that Hermione does not feel romantically toward Viktor Krum, but would like to maintain a friendship with him. It is also painfully obvious that Harry feels only friendship toward Hermione (made clear in the books as well as all three of these Relationship essays. Sorry, Lisa.)

What no one has addressed so far, however, has been Hermione's feelings for Ron. These take a subtler tack, one which I, as a male, do not understand fully, because, as all males, the workings of a woman's mind and heart are a complete mystery. Perhaps she feels equally for Harry and Ron. She sees them both as friends. It will take one or the other of them to point out to her that they are in fact male and that a relationship is possible between them. For she, too, looks outside of the trio for romantic involvement.

So who will end up with who?

To decide this, we must look outside of the books themselves, as they obviously make it into a mystery that we are not yet meant to solve. Let us look first, therefore, at the Harry Potter movies.

Many fans do not like the movies, they believe them to be inferior to the novels - and fie on any director that changes a line from the book! What they do not understand is that a feature-length film is a different medium than a novel to convey information. In a novel, the reader is allowed to glimpse the inner workings of a character's mind. We know what they are thinking and feeling, because we are thinking and feeling it along with them. In a movie, we only know what the characters are thinking and feeling through their actions, expressions, and deeds. So, ofttimes, the director and actors must make their actions and expressions far more blatant than an author does in a book. Films must also, from necessity, be shorter than a book, so they must fit a lot more information into a shorter alotment of time.

In Chamber of Secrets, the film, Hermione comes running into the Great Hall at the end of term feast and quickly hugs Harry. "You solved it!" she exclaims. Then when she turns to Ron to hug, they both blush and end up shaking hands. This is a blatant attempt to show they have feelings for each other beyond friendship, even before the books begin to show such things. Why would the director change this? Why would JK allow it? JK who has final cut on any scene? Because, in a movie, if you had not read the books, this would be a sly insinuation of the budding feelings developing between these two.

We see it again in the Prisoner of Azkaban movie. When Ron and Hermione are spending a quiet, awkward moment outside of the Shrieking Shack, and later after Lupin transforms into a werewolf and Hermione goes to comfort Ron. You can also hear Ron trying to play up his injury in the background, to seem more manly. "It's too late, it's ruined. It'll have to be chopped off."

It's rather amusing that their conversation exactly parallels the conversation between Draco Malfoy and Pansy Parkinson after Malfoy is injured by Buckbeak in the beginning of the film, and Ron says, "Listen to the idiot! He's really laying it on thick, isn't he?"

It has also been recently rumored that Hermione will kiss Viktor Krum in the upcoming Goblet of Fire movie, something that was not in the book. I'm giving ten to one odds that Ron will see this and explode in a fit of jealousy. Why? Because in a movie there is not enough time to show the subtler hints of building jealousy and resentment on his part, and the quiet games Hermione plays trying to make Ron jealous by completing her correspondence with Viktor in front of him, or bringing up Viktor's name in conversation.

If you had never read the books, and only seen the movies, then by the time Ron and Hermione get together, it would have seemed something that was building from the beginning, rather than something that came out of the blue. However, having read the books, we see this as "too" obvious, and believe it is a red herring. Well let me remind you, that there are many people who do not enjoy reading, and only watch the movies. The screenwriters and directors must take this into account when they tell the story, so that the story told in the films may be as true to the books as a whole as they can possibly make them in the time allowed.

And finally, we have what little JK has said about the subject in various interviews. At the Edinburgh Book Festival, she says in answer to the question: "Will Ron and Hermione ever get together?"

Well-[Laughter.] What do you think? [Audience member: I think they will]. I'm not going to say. I can't say, can I? I think that, by now, I've given quite a lot of clues on the subject. That is all I'm going to say. You will have to read between the lines on that one.

Now, some have gone so far as to say that JK has made it too obvious that something will develop between Ron and Hermione, that Ron's obvious jealousy and Harry's unromantic feelings for her are all just a ruse to mislead us so it will be a huge surprise when Hermione ends up with Harry.

Every time I read something like that, I have to shake my head. I know that JK is a sly writer, and she often inserts hidden things into the text long before it is made relevant. But whenever those things are finally revealed, the things she hid become so obvious that many of us are smacking ourselves in the head thinking, "Why didn't I see that coming?"

With all the quotes and evidence given in "A Heart Once Given . . ." I find it very difficult to believe that even JK would have meant every one of those events to hide a feeling of unspoken, unrequited romantic love on Hermione's part that is invisible to everyone but the author. I find the people who recognize the hints given for a Ron and Hermione relationship, but want Harry to end up with Hermione so badly that they disregard them, or try to claim they were planted to mislead us, to be delusional wishful thinkers.

Let us face facts, people. Who Hermione ends up with is not truly that important. The hints given point toward a Ron and Hermione relationship, both in the movies and the books. There have been "quite a lot of clues on that subject," to quote JK yet again, and I think digging even deeper than the sly insinuations she has planted is yet another act of wishful thinking and a colossal waste of time. No matter how well written.

Which leads to the final factor we must consider in any relationship that takes place between the male members of the trio and the female. How would the other guy feel?

Harry himself feels equally for his friends. He has shown no sign of romantic feelings for Hermione thus far, and while he definitely prefers spending time alone with Ron to time alone with Hermione, his interactions with Cho Chang prove that this has nothing to do with sexual attraction. (Though I suppose some of you are itching to gather evidence for a "closet case.")

But Ron? Since his first realization that Hermione was a girl, in fact, a girl who's beauty at the Yule Ball stunned him into gape mouthed speechlessness, he has displayed a new attitude toward her. He became so jealous of Viktor Krum, his greatest hero of his greatest obsession, that he hated him, and even dismembered the action figure of Krum he bought at the Quidditch World Cup. Knowing how Ron feels about money, this small act takes on an even larger importance.

So how would Harry feel if his two best friends got together? Most likely he would be happy. It would take a bit of getting used to, but I doubt they would leave him out of anything but the bedroom. Meaning not much would have changed in their relationship, except that during sleepovers, Harry would be sleeping on the couch.

But how would the Weasel King! react? If his actions toward Krum are any indication, as well as his jealousy of Harry for being a Triwizard Champion, then he would be inflamed with jealousy and rage. Harry, who gets everything; Harry, who is the center of attention, always casting his shadow over Ron's glory; Harry gets the girl he loves?

It would be the end of their friendship, and no girl is worth that.

there you go! whatcha think?

NOTE TO MODS: copied directy from Veritaserum editorials, if any flame-ish stuff against a ship is here, please PM me and ill edit it. thank you.

~Esrb99~

I was re-reading GOF and found a stunting evidence against R/Hr. I was so surprized that I never picked that up!!

Goblet Of Fire page 423

“Why don’t you go and find Vicky, he’ll be wondering where you are,” said Ron.

“Don’t call him Vicky!”

Hermione jumped to her feet and stormed off across the dance floor, disappearing into the crowd. Ron watched her go with a mixture of anger and satisfaction on his face. (emphasize mine)

See! he was STATISFIED that Hermione is angry! (sorry, caps are for emphasis). He was enjoying hermione! This is NOT romantic tension! it's teasing! Infact, its like how i tease my sister! never did it say that ron is jealous!

So why is ron angry? Think about it. You spend thouthand of bucks to go to scottland and get a signature from JKR, but never succeed. Then you find that your friend has got some face-time with JKR. how would you feel? Angry, of course!

this quote also makes it clear that hermione wasn't trying to make ron jealous.

alright then. thats what I think. feel free to critisize me. and tell me if i'm over-analizing.

heh heh heh....no, you're not overanalysing. That was a very good point and one that I had noticed before myself, actually...but you are far braver than me to post it... That jealousy there would explain a lot...and is one of the reasons why, although I can see R/Hr shippers points, I still prefer H/Hr....

Not that I'm gonna go hurl myself into the ocean if it doesn't happen though....you know....

heh. R/Hr shippers say that H/hr relationship is too Brother&Sister like. But i don't agree. R/Hr is the Brother&Sister relationship! They fight just like how i fight with my sister! and i'm incredibly like Hermione (and my sister is like Ron) Here's my favorite quote:

Sister: YOU'VE BEEN PLAYING COMPUTER FOR AGES!
Me: heh, you played computer for ages, not me.
Sister: NO! YOU PLAYED MORE THEN ME!
Me: I didn't!!
Sister: Yes you DID!

see! nice. You thought that wasn't enough?!? I have another clue. Now i dont have the OotP with me. But i think i remembered that when ginny told ron she was dating Dean, Ron reacted the same way as he reacted towards Hermione dating Krum. Anyone know the exact quote?]

ps. Dana, are you a h/hr shipper?

Yes, I am, but only because that's simply how I feel about it...I like Harry, I like Hermione, Ron gets on my wick...so basically that's all it comes down to. I don't read debates about it other than to moderate them because it really doesn't matter that much to me who ends up with who, or even if there's any relationships between anyone at all. That's not why I started reading the books.

As I've said before, if I wanted romance, I'd go read Barbara Cartland.

Exir has a good point. I do that alot with my brother and sister although it doesn't matter that much because JKR is writing the books and not us.

There is something that I think people need to universally agree on though. At what point in the series can evidence be used for shipping. Start of GoF? Midway through PoA? We should at least be able to agree on a time when we can start using evidence for a ship.

Esrb -- if your so sure that R/Hr will happen, what is the point of arguing with us. I kind of think that this thread is misused. I think Dana pointed out in the beginning, nobody arguing is going to switch sides, so why bother. I would think this thread would be more for people we aren't sure or could be swayed. But that is just me....o...and what was the point of posting the entire editorial by "Long Live the Weasle King". Couldn't you just give us a link?

I just found a nice editorial regarding the post-harry/cho-kiss scene. It clearly shows that hermione wasn't supporting Harry/Cho.

This will look at the reactions of Hermione and Ron to Harry being kissed by Cho. I will look at their descriptions, break down what they mean and show what JKR is more than likely trying to tell us. This takes place in Chapter 21: The Eye of the Snake. All emphasis is mine.

Harry enters the common room and sinks into a chair. Ron and Hermione ask him what's wrong. When Harry decides not to say anything, Hermione realises something must have happened with Cho. Now while she was happy enough for Harry before, what happened...she wasn't ready for this at all. To me, this is where Hermione's feelings become apparent to herself.

"Is it Cho?" she asked in a businesslike way. "Did she corner you after the meeting?"

Businesslike suggests she is hiding her emotions. It suggests she is trying to mask her feelings from others and get to the point. Corner is also a very interesting way of putting it, as though it was something she did not want to happen. Harry nods a yes.

"Did you kiss?" asked Hermione briskly.

Briskly suggests she is saying this quickly and without happiness, but with some shock. Say it aloud, briskly. "Did you kiss?"

Harry looked from Ron's expression of mingled curiosity and hilarity to Hermione's slight frown, and nodded.

Why is Hermione frowning? She has known Harry wanted to do this, but now that he has, she is unhappy about it. This change from businesslike to briskly to frowning is but the start of a cascade of emotions we see from Hermione in this scene. It seems as though at this point, she is upset that Harry has kissed Cho.

Ron made a triumphant gesture with his fist and went into a raucous peal of laughter that made several timid-looking second years over beside the window jump. A reluctant grin spread over Harry's face as he watched Ron rolling around on the hearthrug. Hermione gave Ron a look of deep disgust and returned to her letter.

First, Ron. Okay, yeah, he's happy. He's being a typical guy and all that, but isn't he overdoing it somewhat? It seems as though something else is occuring to him. Hermione likes Harry, but Harry's taken. She's free. There is a bit later that supports that Ron thinks Harry and Hermione have something stewing between them. Now, Hermione. Why the deep disgust? That's pretty harsh for some enthusiasm. It's almost as though she's thinking "Ron, this isn't funny!!!" and then she turns to her letter, as if trying to forget the kiss has just happened. This from the girl who will usually drop anything to talk to Harry about something that's happened to him.

"Of course you're not," said Hermione absently, still scribbling away at her letter.
"How do you know?" said Ron in a sharp voice.
"Because Cho spends half her time crying these days," said Hermione vaguely. "She does it at mealtimes, in the loos, all over the place."

This happens when Haryr wonders if he's a bad kisser. First, interesting answer from Hermione - absently at that. It's as though she was wondering what if she had been the one he kissed. Note also the absense of Hermione from the discussion for a bit. Hermione, who was supposed to be happy for Harry! She's thinking about something, and i don't think it's the letter. Now we have Ron in the sharp voice. This supports that he thinks something is going on between Harry and Hermione. He doesn't think it ludicrous that Hermione knows how well Harry kisses. Hermione answers in a vague voice, suggesting she's still not altogether there, and doesn't even answer his question fully. She then slaps Ron with an insult - the insensitive wart bit, when Ron says some kissing would cheer her up. I think she's getting peeved at Ron because he's taking it so lightly and she's suffering now. Why is she feeling this way? Didn't she decide Harry was just a close friend?

At this point, Hermione launches into a very long explanation about Cho that leaves a stunned silence at the end of it. What was with that? If you look at her words, it is very likely she is also talking about herself! Compare what i'm saying here with what Hermione says in the passage - sorry for not typing it out, it's rather long. Se's feeling very sad, because Harry's in mortal danger, not to mention Harry's interested in a girl totally unlike her. She's confused because she liked Krum and now she likes Harry. She feels guilty because she's still in contact with Krum and it is insulting to him. She's worried about what people, especially their best friend Ron, would say if she starts going out with Harry. She can't figure out her feelings because she's also very close friends with Harry, and their other best friend likes her, so it's painful. Oh, and she's afraid she's going to get chucked out of school for starting the entire D.A. thing.

Does that make sense? Sounds a lot like what she's saying about Cho doesn't it? Following this, Ron says nobody can feel all of that. She insults him, with a nasty voice at that and picks up her quill again. That sounds a lot like "How can you say that?! I'm feeling like that right now!"

"You just had to be nice to her," said Hermione, looking up anxiously. "You were, weren't you?"

Sounds like she's hoping Harry was just being nice to Cho and it didn't really mean anything. Man, she's changing emotions faster than a pit crew sees to a racecar. Anyway, it sounds like she's hoping the kiss really ddin't mean anything. She then tries not to roll her eyes at Harry, he's not very good at comforting girls. Now here's where it gets interesting again.

"Well, I suppose it could have been worse," she said. "Are you going to see her again?"
"I'll have to, won't I?" said Harry. "We've got D.A. meetings haven't we?"
"You know what I mean," said Hermione impatiently.

Sounds like she's continuing on from before. She hopes it didn't mean anything and he's not going to date her. When he doesn't get it, she becomes impatient. I thought she was patient with Harry? She then becomes distant as she says there'll be plenty of opportunities to ask her. She's definately not pleased and she's zoning out again. Emotionally detached from the conversation. When she tells Ron Harry's liked Cho for ages, she's vague. She's definatley not there anymore. After this, she only replies abruptly who she's writing to, we have a 20 minute silence(how's that for uncomfortable?) and then she goes to bed with a quick. "Well, 'night."

It's pretty clear to me that Hermione was not at all pleased with Harry kissing Cho. Something hit her when she figured out what happened, and it affected her for the rest of this conversation, where she not once even smiled a little for Harry. It seems as though this is where she realised she likes Harry as more than just a friend and shows her displeasure at his being kissed by another girl.

See! Nice editorial

well, if its ove-analization you want: Ill leave you with one thing: Compare Ron and Ginny's relationship/intercations V.S Harry and Hermione's. very... quiet from the STEROTYPICAL muggle/real world. Now compare the Relaiopnship/interactoins between Mr. and Mrs. Weasley, verus the steady change between Ron and Hermione. Ron has slowly begun to back down and either lean towrads Hermoine's view, or try to keep the peace. We see Mr. Weasley back down A LOT from his wife. Ginny and Ron are not the steryotypical Brother/sister. while Ron may have told Her, "Go Away" at times, ther are parts whrer Harry as said the same to Hermione.
just becuase Bro/sis are one way in our world, does not mean that JKR stays toe to that in her IMAGINARY one.

~Esrb99~
P.S.

Esrb, you have got a point. in fact, the thing that you pointed out is one of the major flaw in the H/hr theory.

But we also have our reason. In my first post, I pointed out that Ron is teasing Hermione, Remember? He was STATISFIED. That isn't ROMANTIC tention!!! And I belive that ron wasn't jeolous of krum, but of HERMIONE! Clearly, this kind of jealousy is not ROMANTIC jealousy. It's the same kind of jealousy that you have towards your friend when he did better than you. Just like i have pointed out in my first post using the JKR metaphor, Ron is Krum's fan, but he never succeed in even getting a signature. Then Hermione got to become friends with Krum. Ofcourse ron is jealous! but not towards Krum, but Hermione.

Anyway, there isn't a definite awnser and we'll have to wait 'till July. You've got a good point there.

Esrb, may I ask for a few examples where Harry has told Hermione to just "go away"? I'm thinking and nothing's coming into my head. Also, just because Ron is starting to back down from Hermione like Mr. Weasley to his wife, doesn't mean that Hermione is also changing to be like Mrs. Weasley, thereby completing the R/Hr-Mr.-Mrs. Weasley comparison. We have no sure evidence of that. The article above mentions Hermione's feelings judging by her actions during the post-Cho talk. I mentioned her tactlessness and bluntness a while ago. Also, the scene where Hermione thinks that Harry is prefect doesn't make sense. It's not adding up. How can Hermione act like this and still like Ron in a romantic way?

Exactly, Bantoth.

Ron/Hermione shippers have a major flaw in there theories; If ron likes Hermione, it doesn't mean that Hermione likes ron. If thats the way JKR intepretated Love, then I would have burn the book!!! Obviosly, thats not the case. Infact, I don't even belive that ron likes hermione. Read my first post .

Some R/hr shippers say that Hermione's look towards ron reminded Harry of Mr. and Mrs. Weasly, but that doesn't mean Ron and Hermione looks at each other like Mr. and Mrs. Weasly. It only REMINDS harry of Mr. and Mrs. Weasly. if something reminds you of an apple, it doesn't mean it IS an apple.

--Exir

Okay guys... if you'd read the new article at mugglenet, you knew this was coming... so without further adu(sp?) Here you go!

An original editorial by E.M. Ellison.


My first husband had sandy-blond hair and blue eyes like my father. He was also the personality combination of that irresponsible, neglectful father and an abusive stepfather. My second husband is a physical and behavioral representative of several decent father figures in my life, plus some positive aspects (there actually were a few) of the two I mentioned before. Why am I sharing my personal life with the reading public? To show you, the readers, that our trio and their friends will respond similarly with regard to which people attract them. It's scientific.
PSYCHOLOGY

It has been observed by many a behavioral and psychological expert that people (I think this mostly applies to heterosexuals, but I'm sure there are exceptions) are attracted to those that remind them of the opposite sex parent or parental figure in some way. My own experience has shown this, as I said earlier. Even those attracted to people of different races will find someone that reminds them in some way of a very significant parental representative.

The influence of a negative parent can be obviously countered if a strong enough substitute or substitutes are present. This is especially true if the negative parent is removed. But, unfortunately, the opposite can be true as well.

The most famous example I can think of regarding parental influence of attraction is former U.S. President Clinton. Now don't send me any hate mail. I think he is basically a decent guy and made a good president. But, while he made a good politcal choice with Hillary (not to say he doesn't love her), he seemed to always be drawn to people more like his mother. Think about it. Hillary is independent and understated. But Paula (yeah, I believe her), Monica, and some of the others whose names I forget are southern, flashy, voluptuous and/or slightly vulnerable. And yes, his mother was vulnerable. What can be more vulnerable than a widow with a baby?

Now, as an aside, I think most of his problems with women stem from addiction. Just as his stepfather was an alcoholic (more parental influence) Clinton's drug of choice is sex.

Now, on to the next branch of science:

BIOLOGY (Genetics, specifically)

It has been observed--once again by respected professionals--that people are attracted to those genetically opposite them in some way. Now this varies in degree. Some will find an opposite in one characteristic such as eye color or face shape. Others will be much more extreme and be attracted to different races. For example, if the Weasley's were real, Mum and Dad would differ only in eye color and shades of red hair. At the other extreme, I know a couple in which one is German and the other African-American. Their children have very different characteristics but all three are beautiful.

The reason, say scientists, for this genetic "opposites attract" is that variation helps perpetuate the species. Like Mr. Weasley said in CoS, "If we hadn't started marrying Muggles we would have died out long ago."

So, my theories are as follows: Ron is attracted to Hermione because she has a strong, almost over-bearing personality like his mother. She is also the brown-haired, brown-eyed genetic opposite to Ron's red hair and blue eyes. We don't really know what her father is like but Ron is obviously her opposite genetically as well.

My thoughts about Harry and Ginny are similar. Mr. Weasley is kind, humble and stands up for what he believes. (He could have stopped defending Muggles long ago and been higher up in the Ministry.) These are all traits Harry possesses. The black hair counters the red and the bright green eyes, while not blue like Dad's, are nonetheless very different from deep brown. Ginny is very much like Lily in that she stands up for people (Neville) just as Lily did (Snape). Ginny also doesn't put up with Harry's moodiness anymore than Lily put up with James' cockiness and immaturity. To Harry, Ginny's red hair is both a parental reminder (Lily) and genetic opposite. And, of course, we've already been over their eye color.

All this being said, there can only be one conclusion: Ron belongs with Hermione and Harry with Ginny. It's scientific.

1/30/05


there you go, the oppisite attracts thingy explained!

Ersb, i've read the editorial. Somehow, I feel that JKR is not that Scientific, and more emotional. She's bad at math! Anyway, the harry potter world is not a real world, It's FAKE! It doesn't follow scientific rules because its FAKE! Yes, Jo can take a Scientific encyclopedia and read all this, but since when did Jo forshadoed something using science? She usualy forshadows with Symbols, charecter interaction, Et Cetera.

yet, many H/Hr shippers tend to say that R/Hr is not, "logical." I also don't fully agree with this, but it puts some "logic" to R/Hr. I really agree more with the, "Mr./mrs. Weasley, Ron/Hermione thing.

but hey, thats just me.

~Esrb99~

R/Hr Shippers DO make sence. They ARE logical. I agree with that, Even though I'm R/Hr shippers enemy . It's Much more fun to argue with R/H shippers that other Shippers. If I wasn't A H/Hr shipper, I might well be a R/Hr shipper .

I have a suggestion: Why don't we say something good about our opponent's ship? It helps us understand our enemys better . And I think its about time to relax

Oh, yeah...right...just one small thing - psychology isn't a real science. It thinks it is, most psychologists will argue that it is, but it's not. Not in any clearly defined sense.

And as for that utter nonsense that purports to be biological science, I have nothing but contempt. People wave the science banner so often in the name of evidence and most of the time they have absolutely no idea what they're talking about. Whoever wrote that original article should have quoted sources without making sweeping generalisations like they have done about 'scientists have discovered this' or 'scientists have discovered that'. That's not evidence - that's hearsay and there's not even an original source quoted.

The upshot of this mini-rant being that if that article is discredited, then so is the argument for which is has been presented as evidence.

As Alexis99 stated, psychology isn't exact. You could call it science because the broadest sense of the word science is the act of finding a question, and an answer for said question. When a person is going to kill someone for doing something to them, psychology is going to say that they did if for revenge. If someone just goes and kills someone for no reason, what can psychology say? I don't know, but if the killer is asked that question and answers "I just felt like it," the notes of the psychologist will read a slightly nicer version of "needs extreme mental help." They cannot prove what is going through the killer's mind, sometimes they can find no cause/reason for an action, and when such events occur, they often just give advice instead of tell whoever what is going on. The meaning of all this leads to "the heart knows better than the mind." Love isn't science. It can be examined under science but no matter what evidence you have, you cannot predict an exact result when it comes to love.

Alright, We better stop the Psycology argument. Even Ersb doesn't quite belive this as a Clue, he ONLY posted this to show that R/Hr shippers are logical. And I perfectly agree . R/Hr shippers ARE logical.

Thank you, Exir. while BOTH are logical in some since, If H/Hr DOES Happen, It most likely will be during the mid-to end of book seven, seeing as we really don't have ANY conclusive evidence on HARRY's part of him liking Hermione, (After the Cho kiss,) while the only bit for Her is a small amout of tactlessness. Ron obviously has Feelings for Hermione, and there are a large amout of small evidence that Hermoine feels the same. Yule Brawl(most obvious,) Victor Letter, Her seeming to spend more time with him(though thats mostly Harry's fault, for shutting BOTH out for about 8 mos,) the fact That Ron and Hermoine appear to be, "Getting along" when Harry first arrives at Grimmauld place, that she decided to go see RON after his dad had ben attacked, instead of going skiing, and most importantly(in my opinion,) the fact that when Ron trys to settle of a truce between Harrry and Hermoine(in Ootp, over the "tell Dumbledore" issue,) Hermione actually listens to him, and backs down.

Yes Harry Potter is fake, just like Star Trek or X-files are fake, but they are created by real people. And story tellers usally try and make the people they create as real as possiable. If stories were filled with unrealist people, who would want to read them? I will insert a quote here that I feel fits in well with the point I'm trying to make.
"Stories are our dreams, really. That's why we tell stories. They're what makes us interesting and what connects us with one another from generation to generation. Without them, all we'd be left with is politics and supermarkets. And what kind of world would that be?"- Ewan McGregor
Back to the reason I posted. I mostly ship Ron/Hermione bacause I think it is in best interest of the friendship beween the the trio to have Ron and Hermione together verus Harry and Hermione. I always thought of the trio as my biggest ship, (big surpise, look at my sig and avie!) and there is no doubt in my mind ROn's feelings for Hermione, and if Harry and Hermione get together, I see this whole big fight between Ron and Harry. But if I'm wrong and it turns out Ron doesn't like Hermione that much and Harry and Hermione are suppose to be together, I'll get over it. I just the three of them to not die and be happy. :crosses fingers: Here's to hoping

Hmmm. If Ron likes hermione. I don't think Ron Likes hermione. Read my first post!! (I know, I'm ALWAYS reffering to my fist post. Annoying, huh?)If ron doesn't like hermione, then I don't think Harry and Ron will fight over hermione. But maybe I'm Wrong. Only time will tell. (July 16 2005, Actualy )

Amyrat, Your right . Harry Potter IS created by real people.

Hmmm... Something good about R/Hr; I think if R/Hr happens, then the romance in the HP books will be much more intresting.

Yes, alexis, you are right. But i never said R/Hr shippers are imaginative, i only said they are logical. Now, Back to the arguments.

I spotted that JKRowling likes to make majorities belive in a theory, and then throw peoples off-gaurd doing something only a few people thought possible. But I also Spotted that she also never let a completely unlogical and cluless thing happen.

Before OotP, JKrowling told fans that someone's dieing. No one thought it will be Sirius. I belive it will be the same for Ships. JKrowling writes in a very smart way and makes majorities belive it's R/Hr. Only the ones with a cunning eyes knows its H/Hr

Exir, no need to roll eyes, or be snide "Only the ones with a cunning eyes knows its H/Hr" Or maybe you're not being snide, and I'm mistaken, of which I'll say "I'm sorry" in advance.
And there is a ton of evidence that Ron likes Hermione, but I'll give you only two quotes
'Good luck, Ron,' said Hermione, standing on tiptoe and kissing him on the cheek. 'And you, Harry -'
Ron seemed to come to himself slightly as they walked back across the Great Hall. He touched the spot on his face where Hermione had kissed him, looking puzzled, as though he was not quite sure what had just happened.
- Chapter 19, Page 358 (British), Page 404 (American)
'If you don't know,' said Ron scathingly, 'I'm not going to tell you.'
Hermione stared at him, then at Harry, who shrugged. 'Ron, what -?'
'He's from Durmstrang!' spat Ron. 'He's competing against Harry! Against Hogwarts! You - you're -' Ron was obviously casting around for words strong enough to describe Hermione's crime, 'fraternising with the enemy, that's what you're doing!'
Hermione's mouth fell open.
- Gobelt of Fire Chapter 23
For me, that's pretty convicing. I can be told that Hermione likes Harry, and have doubts, because I think is a chance that she does possiably love Harry romanticly. And it could also be that you are ingoring the "Ron might like Hermione" evidence because you want Hermione to be with Harry. I ingored the possiable Hermione and Harry evidence, but then I opened myself up to chance, and Hermione and Harry have become a much less diffcult pill to shallow. I call that personal growth.

LMAO!!!!! Oh, Amyrat, girl....that was good! That was really good!! Lordy, this thread could do with some lightening up, couldn't it? **wipes tears away**

Alrighty then, enough with the 'Let's insult the intelligence level of the other shippers' stuff now before it becomes a little less good-natured, hey?

Although...on second thoughts....it is kind of entertaining....

Nah, carry on..... I'll stop it when it starts getting rough....

I didn't know I was so funny. I wasn't trying to be, only on the last part. And yes, no more insulting intelligence. After all calling someone stupid doesn't make you any smarter, just a jerk.

Quote (Amyrat)

sorry, R/Hr shippers. Sorry if i sound rude. I have the habbit of exaggerate things. When i say that only the people with a cunning eye can spott that it is H/Hr, I'm exaggerating. I mean H/Hr is subtle. Not offending anyone. Sorry.

That's okay, don't worry....I'm sure people are not that sensitive. I mean, let's face it, all sides' intelligence levels have been attacked at some time or another, we all bear the scars....

So, JKR actually asked us to question who Hermione loves, did she? Mmm...do you have a reference or a link, Masked? Because the thing is that if she did say that, that's potentially one of the biggest pointers towards H/Hr there is, IMHO of course....

Amyrat....You just hit my funny bone, that's all... I guess it wouldn't have been that funny if I hadn't been a bit giggly after reading through all the posts from alexis' onwards...you got to read them all together to see the pattern of dry, sarcastic humour in there that really appeals to me...I'm a bit sick like that...

I believe that TheMaskedPumkin was reffering to this quote:
Does Hermione love Ron or Harry?
I can't believe that some of you haven't worked this one out yet, but I'm not going to answer because that would spoil the arguments, which I enjoy.
-www.jkrowling.com/
I don't think it points to either augments, just restates it. And TheMaskedPumkin, we don't have as much evidence for Hermione. That's the truth. So in a way Ron/Hermione shippers stand as good a chance as Hermione/Harry shippers. We've on the same ground, just in differnt countries.
I suppose the major flaw with Hermione/Ron is that, not as much evindence for Hermione. And the major flaw with Harry/Hermione is Harry's conplete lack of romantic feelings for her.

Hmmm...

Some R/Hr shippers say that Harry doesn't have romantic feelings for Hermione. I don't agree. Harry doesn't have CONSCIOUS romantic feelings, but do you fall consciously in-love since the first Nano-second you meet someone? What, You do?!?! I belive Harry has SUB-conscious feelings for harry, as shown by the Hermione/Cho dream (And many other things. I'll leave that to the other H/Hr shippers)

By the way, where's ThePhoenixEffect and Bandoth?

And a Ron/Hermione shipper could say the same for, Hermione and possiable subconsious feelings .
Something I juse realised, how did I suddenly become the Ron/Hermione side of the agureement. How did I get sucked it?

It's called a Freudian slip....

We'd all like to think that we're 'on the fence' to a certain extent because it's far easier than having to eat humble pie when the ships (or lack thereof) are confirmed in the next books. The truth is though that I think we all lean one way or the other, no matter how much we all try to deny it...

As for ThePhoenixEffect...not sure...but then he/she (sorry, not sure which!! Very hard to tell from the name... ) tends to come and go...they're probably still around somewhere. Bandoth...he's still around too - he was here yesterday. Maybe he's just given up on the debate....

Yes, Ron/hermione shippers can say the same. But we need proof. Other H/Hr shippers has posted the proof of why Hermione DOESN'T like Ron SUB-consciously. Please reffer to the earlier posts. They explain better than me.

Phew, This is getting biased

Ahhh! Dana! Never suggest such a thing! I was merely waiting for a good place to "butt in." Unfortunately, there hasn't been one... and still isn't. But I'm going to anyway. I have posted a few times on the post-Cho-kiss talk explaining some good reasons for Hermione having feelings for Harry. She may know it, she may not. Either way, she shows feelings that are not supposed to be there (by lack of emotion). If Hermione likes Ron, subconsciously or consciously, there will be some clues. I have stated quite a few all over the place here and probably will not restate them to make sure people can find it within a time frame of ten hours. There are also quite a few scenes that make no sense if Hermione likes/loves Ron. Once again, I'm getting sick of reposting the same stuff over and over again. Also, in OotP, we see, in Harry's story, Ron stepping out of the picture more and more and Hermione stepping up. Finally, most, if not all quotes from JKR/movies suggesting a biased opinion on ships have been shot down here. Maybe if I get in a better mood later I'll repost some of this stuff. Just gets annoying to be here from near the beginning and have to explain it all over again.

Way-hay!! You're back!! Knew I could provoke you if I kept at it for long enough.....

Anywho, just to really start throwing some muck into the mix, I was in a local bookstore a while back and I noticed that they were selling these really cute PoA holographic bookmarks, and naturally, I couldn't leave them there....

Particularly when....guess what? Harry holographed into Hermione and then back again....and no matter which way I twisted it, Ron was no where in sight....mmm.....just Harry and Hermione...the hero and his gal...

Now what do you reckon to that?

I've never denied what I am, or what I'm not. Just pointing out that not all Ron and Hermione shippers think it's so obvious. I'm holding on to the evidence, and praying I'm right, just like the rest of you. I just like to be honest when I say there is a chance that Ron and Hermione might not get together, but they also might. I also like other honest people who agree with that fact. In my mind there is no evadance, just quotes and opions. I'm not the right person to have a debate with. Mostly cause I aviod confonation.
But one augment I do have is how would Harry react if Hermione told him she liked him that way. I don't forsee a quick "I love you too" back. Because he values her friendship to much to be in a half-hearted relationship. It would be all tense and werid between them. And how would Ron react to that? If one was to say if Ron likes Hermione, and then he would maybe feel like Harry betrade him. I've always been a tad more senstive toward Ron's feelings. This is my kinda of logic that lead me to the R/Hr opion.

Heh...I took a bit of a break from the fandom.

Amyrat, I don't think it is as simple as that imo.

This is why I'm a bigger supporter of the "Love Triangle of Doom" argument and I think it will resolve in H/Hr based on other indications.

No rational H/Hr shipper will deny R --> Hr, but we do mention Ron's other possible motivations for Ron's actions during GoF and some of OoTP that make us wonder how deep the crush really is.

I believe that the LLTD will come out because:

1) Contrary to common thought, love triangles do not have to be soap opery, soppy, or sentimental. They do not have the to dominate the plot. They can actually be played for comedy or angst. They can be used as a plot device, metaphor, anthing you want, etc...

Many examples in literature prove this. I'll list them later if anyone wants it.

2) Rowling has the perfect set up to use it, why shouldn't she use it? There are just a bunch of pointless things she wrote if she is not going to use it. Again, I'll expand on this later if anyone wants me to.

I am hopelessly blonde, what does imo mean? And I guess it's possiable for them to be all friends after the possiable triangle unpleasantness, but I'll hopeless fan of there friendship. I almost cryed when I read Ron and Harry where fighting in GoF for the first time.

Sorry, Pheonix. This is the first time I disagree . I do not think that Ron=>Hermione.

I already posted this, but nobody seems to pay attention( or maybe they do ). So I'm posting it again

Goblet Of Fire page 423

“Why don’t you go and find Vicky, he’ll be wondering where you are,” said Ron.

“Don’t call him Vicky!”

Hermione jumped to her feet and stormed off across the dance floor, disappearing into the crowd. Ron watched her go with a mixture of anger and satisfaction on his face. (emphasize mine)

See! He's STATISFIED. He's TEASING Hermione! Mind you, romantic tention is NOT teasing! Honestly, Ron doesn't like hermione.

Feel free to critisize.

Amyrat, IMO is In My Opinion. IMHO is In My Humble Opinion.

Ron was clearly jealous of Viktor Krum after discovering that it was he who asked Hermione to the Yule Ball. He was hurt and angry, and intentionally provoked Hermione, and was satisfied that it worked.

But Ron's feelings for Hermione are clear.

As are Harry's feelings for Hermione. He has no romantic inclination toward her whatsoever.

The question is what she feels for either of them.
Frankly, I think she sees them both as nothing more than friends. But she is aware now of Ron's feelings, and seems flattered by the attention. This is shown when she brings up Viktor Krum in OotP on two seperate occasions. To which Ron reacts with great interest both times, and Hermione reassures him both times that nothing romantic is going on. The third time, Ron drops the subject and looks disgruntled.

To those who think Hermione was hiding her feelings for Harry by her lack of emotion when they were discussing Cho's kiss, look at her reactions to both of the instances I named above. Both times she pretends to be bored by the whole subject. "Ho Ho," she begins one time, and "Ho hum," the other. Playing it cool if I ever saw it.

It will take a move on either Harry or Ron's part to spark her interest. As Harry is not likely to make such a move anytime soon, Ron is the likely candidate.

Sorry, missed this before.

Ahem, Ron was Teasing Hermione. He was Being MEAN. Romantic tension is one thing, but teasing is another. Romantic tension is a good thing for a romance, but teasing is not. If someone's teasing another, that means he is having fun hurting another. Is that the essence of romance? Does that mean that he loves her? Yes?!?

A ron/hermione shipper may ask:But why ron is jealous? Here's my intepretation(I've posted this in my early posts, But I'm repeating this): I believe that ron is jealous, not of krum, but of Hermione. Ron is Krum's fan, but Krum paid no attention to him. Then Hermione became Krum's Friend, And Krum is Paying ALOT of attention to Her. Poor Ron, OFCOURSE he'll be angry and jealous! Of hermione! Yes, I have no proof that this is right, But I'm Saying that the Ron/Hermione fight scene shouldn't be used as a shipping proof. It can be entepreted either way.

About the Post-Harry/Cho-kiss scene: I've posted an essay earlier about that. Read It! (it's in page 15, second post.)

S.O.S! H/Hr shippers, Help me! It's really hard to debate alone!!!

An off-topic note: I'm going to Zhuhai (A city in China) for a vacation(From Feb.9 to Feb.14), so I wont be able to debate for sometimes.

Hehe, did anyone recognize I'm Chinese?