Okay...here you go... As requested, a brand new shiny thread for all of you who would like a nice, clean, moderated, healthy place to debate to your hearts content whether Hermione is most likely to end up with Ron or Harry. All I would ask if that everyone, before posting, please read the following:-

DO:

* Keep your posts clear and concise.

* Be polite at all times.

* Agree to disagree. Accept that you won’t agree with everyone, and that others may interpret the books differently to yourself.

* Make your posts a reasonable length. There is no need to quote extensive sections from previous posts.

* Feel free to contact a moderator if you are offended for any reason. That’s what we're here for, and we will always take a complaint seriously. You are also welcome to contact us if you have any questions.

* Use the template (see below).

DON’T:

* Be rude in your post. Don’t flame or insult anyone else.

* Call anyone else names or personally attack anyone.

* State your opinion as fact – it is your opinion. If you disagree with someone else, that’s fine, but don’t tell them their opinion is wrong.

* Flog a dead horse. In other words, don’t keep making the same point over and over. Once you’ve stated a point, move on. If you wish to continue debating the same point with someone, take it to PM/email.

* Don't use ALL CAPS all over your post. If you want to emphasize something, try the bold or italics button instead; using ALL CAPS is read as shouting online.

* Quote extensive chunks of the Harry Potter books to illustrate a point; it takes up bandwith. If you wish to quote the books, then give the page number and a sentence or two, to indicate the passage to which you're referring.

* Take any debates seriously. We are all on the same side here – joined by our love of Harry Potter. There is no need for anyone to become defensive about their ideas and thoughts. This forum is to share these ideas in an informative, educational and hopefully creative way.

Debates should, at least loosely, follow the template outlined below:-


1. Summary of poster's argument:

2. Assertions

Assertion #1

Supporting Evidence

Assertion #2 (if any)

Supporting Evidence

Assertion #3 (if any)

Supporting evidence

3. Conclusion: (limited to two sentences)

Supporting evidence can be gleaned from interviews with Rowling and people involved in the creation of the books or movies, history, literature (including the Harry Potter books and other works of poetry and prose), theater, psychology, sociology, interviews, dictionaries, thesauruses, studies, polls, or other relevant third-party sources.

If quotations are used, please provide relevant pages (with country and book title) or chapter citations (if applicable).

You are allowed to point out flaws with arguments posited by other posters, and/or make arguments that contradict points made by other posters. You are not allowed to attack the individual doing the posting, or generalize about members of any SHIP, regardless of whether you support that SHIP or not.

This is a thread for Evidence-based debate and only for R/Hr Vs H/Hr...not Ginny, Luna, Fred, George, Hagrid or Blast ended Skrewts....

No one is right and no one is wrong...only JKR knows the truth so unless you're psychic, remember that you are only expressing an opinion. Evidence means something in the text which supports your opinion.

I don't want to see any two or three word posts here......nice, healthy debates only.......

I'm really looking forward to seeing what everyone comes up with.....

Okay!! Let the debate begin!!! Who's going to start then?

Oh so I get to start it? Humm, well, I am a huge Ron and Hermione fan. Yeah one reason cause the books seem to hint at this ship to me anyways. And no its not cause Ron is my favortie character and I only want to see him happy, cause I want all three of them to be happy. Still, I know its not a good point, but Hermione and Ron remind me of Molly and Arthur, and they seem happy enough to me. I'll post more later.

Well, I'm the huge Harry/Hermione shipper.
Why I think they'll be together? So, in my opinion Hermione is the person who understands Harry the best. She can understand his feelings (his love to Cho, his fear during the Triwizard Tournament etc.), however Ron sometimes seems to be really unmatured. He laughs at Harry after his first kiss, but Hermione is then a little worried... I know Ron wants to be more popular and have more money... I really understand his situation, but I can't to become fond him, but I don't know why... Ron always wasn't my favourite character in whole story and even in the trio! I've always prefered Harry or Hermione.
But it isn't only one reason...
Harry and Hermione have survived many dramatic and important events together. In PoA they were fighting with dementors when they turned the time. In OoTP, they were together when Hagrid showed them Grawp and the giant attacked them.
Many people think that the feeling, which unites Harry and Hermione is only a deep friendship. I agree, they are really, really amazing friends. But... only friends? In Book 5, Harry hasn't fallen in love with Hermione. However we don't know what does Hermione feel.
She likes very, very much Harry and Ron and they are both her best friends. But in Book 6, maybe she'll understand Harry is the boy she could love. Ron wouldn't be a good boyfiriend for her... As I said, he is not as intelligent as Harry and he often argues with her... it is not pleasant!
It is possible that when Hermione and Harry will get together, Ron's heart will be broken... I'm afraid she loves Hermione but she doesn't love him...
But if Hermione and Ron will be together, won't Harry be really, really alone? Sirius is dead and he needs the person, who will be the dearest for him.... It must be Hermione, I think.

I'm a big Hr/R and H/G shipper.(see sig) I like the three of them equally, so it's not like I'm this crazy Ron fan. I just want them all to be happy. Ok reasons I'm Hr/R, first of all Harry has no romantic feelings for Hermione, second it is clear Ron has feelings for Hermione. At the Yule Ball he ingored his date, kept asking "where's Hermione", he was clearly jealous when he yelled at her, saying she was franenizing with the enemy. And he gave her perfeme for Chirstmas, it's so clear, his feelings. I think Hermione hides her feelings better than Ron but, she likes Ron too. When her frostiness melted when she saw Ron, and gets mad that he's dense about emotions. And more imporantly JKR said that Harry and Hermione don't have a date.

JK did say that Harry and Hermione will never date. And the whole Ron and Hermione arguing, isnt that tension? I think Hermione is upset that Ron doesnt understand emotions, as she comments so in the 5th book. Maybe Hermione has kept her feelings secret because she's wating for Ron to accept his. And Harry wouldnt be alone, I know it said not to talk about Ginny, but she would be there for him. And I'm sure the trio wouldnt be affected too much if one of them got with Hermione.

Excuse me, guys....did I just completely and utterly waste my time posting the new rules? Has anyone bothered to read them? I ask that purely and simply because I don't want complaints when I start yelling at people because, quite frankly, I think I've posted quite enough warnings already. If you don't read them, then don't moan about it when you get told off.

Amyrat - your argument was biased and one sided. You stated flatly that there is no evidence that H/Hr like each other, then went on to cite evidence to support your own argument. That's not what we want in this thread. Please read the first post regarding the rough outline for the template - you have to support your arguments with evidence from the books.

Bellatrix - I think that your new signature is somewhat inflammatory, don't you? Not to mention slightly oversized. Same goes for you too though - if you're going to make a statement that JKR has said that H/Hr is never going to happen, then you have to post either a quote from the transcript or whatever, and post a link so that people can check it out for themselves.

This is NOT a new R/Hr thread - this is a DEBATE thead which was created because of all the problems that were arising in the other threads.

Now PLEASE check the rules for this thread or next time, I'm not going to be so nice.

Well, first of all I would like to say that when I first looked at the possibilities of these ships I decided to take the line of Harry and Hermione.

I can see a real lot where the Ron and Hermione people are coming from. There are I believe countless arguments for all of them. So I won't argue with you.

I believe that it will be a Harry/Hermione because they come from the same background. (muggle families). In the books Hermione values sensitivities and Harry requires that people be sensitive around him. Hermione and Harry have never really fought.

Can you imagine being in a relationship where you were constantly biting at each other? I can't.

In closing. I would like to say. that Hermione and Harry have the strongest foundation together. And I hope more than one Harry and Hermione supporter comes in~otherwise I will be all alone...

But Ron and Hermione argue because of the tension between them. Hermione has showed that the feelings are not one sided plenty of times. She just isn't as obvious as Ron. I'll quote some things from the books later so that I can get them exactly right.

Okay then, actually I've decided not to post in here because I believe that no matter how much we may debate on who Hermione will end up with, we have to in the end only assume and keep believing. Only JKR knows what will happen. Not me, not any H/Hr shippers and not any R/Hr shippers.

And I've keep the below argument to be discussed with my other supporter in H/Hr ship thread. However, I felt called upon by the pleading of kreacher_the_house_elf (sure mate! you're not alone in this one!! ) And I have faith in the moderators who will keep this thread as nice, clean, moderated and healthy as possible...

Here goes...

Assertion #1
Hermione understood Harry. And she believes in him. No matter how absurd the situation may seem, she knows when he's saying the truth. It's not only when he says he's not lying. She can sees it by the look on his face.

Supporting Evidence

Oh, zyra!! Mate!! I'd hug you if I could!!!

Thank you for providing the perfect example of how debates in this thread should be going!!! Assertion and evidence....wonderful!

Now, does anyone have any arguments to contradict this?

Before I start, I would like to comment that H/G should also probably be included in this debate as it is almost a 'sister' ship to R/Hr and I would like to debate with them.

---

Summary for entire argument: With this post I shall present rebuttal to a certain piece of evidence that is a 'standard' for R/Hr evidence...well rather 'anti-H/Hr' evidence. What is this evidence? I shall summarize it in one word: Quotes

There are three typical quotes people use to disprove H/Hr. The last one is actually a set of quotes that I lump together. I dub them the 'Platonic Quote', the 'Katie Couric Quote', and the 'Movie Quotes'.

I shall do this in three installments.

The 'Platonic Quote'

Summary for this Installement:

For reference, I shall start by quoting the quote.

For now I'm just gonna post some parts of JK Rowling interviews, but later, when we get more into character discusion, I'll post some stuff from the books.

So, here we go!

Love your qoutes Kreacher, lol. Some people might argue that those qoutes are pretty old, but didnt JK already right the last chapter so she knows how its going to end? I really would have posted direct qoutes, thing is I dont remember where I found them. And I usually dont have my books with me so I'm not able to directly qoute the book neither. Again, the only evidence I have right now is that the book is told from Harry's point of view. And as far as we know it, he doesnt seem to have any romantic feelings towards Hermione. But I wont comment on future books, cause who knows what can happen.

Second Installment

'The Katie Couric Quote'

Summary for this installment: The R/Hr ship has a famous clip called 'thegoodshipclip' which features this quote. Many claim her facial expressions prove R/Hr.

I disagree of course. JKR was obviously being misleading. Her reply was very politician-like so it is a standard method for not wanting to answer a question while not lying. There is evidence in the book that JKR is aware of this method.

Assertion One: JKR's body language reveals that she is hiding something.

Evidence: The following is a post by my fellow shipmate, stic at COS Forums.


I am going to analize what Jo says and how she says it from the perspective of an interrogator, using the "Bible of Interrogation", the KUBARK counter-interrogation-manual.
The interview situation itself can be viewed as an interrogation, Katie Couric is obviously cast into the role of the interrogator and her intention is to get as much information out of Jo concerning books 5,6 and 7. Jo's mission is a lot tougher. Not only that she intends to give away as little as possible of the mysteries and future plots that took so long to create, she also has to be cautious of the fact that in some cases no answer can be an answer.
Harmony says Jo is trying to conceal H/Hr and diverting from it, Herons claim Jo is just openly hinting towards R/Hr.
Look at Jo in the video from the perspective of an interrogator: while Katie tries to make the interview as friendly-chatty as possible Jo displays physical indicators of inner tension: While Jo's head is rather active her posture is stiff, especially when Katie asks if we would see any snogging between H/Hr her body is like a statue :

Sigh, or she could just be telling us the flat out truth. Is this whole ship thing even worth dabating?

I peronaly never thought tension meant sexual tension, eww, lol. And I like debating ships, its easier than debating book theories, becuase the story can change so drasticaly, like who's next to die, or who knows or did what. Ships is something we all can understand.

I think that Hr/R and H/G is how RW wants things to end up but JKR intends to use it asd an object lesson that things like this do not always work out as we want them to. I expect to see RW try and set these two ships up but for something to go wrong.

Installment Three:

'Movie Quotes'

I'm not going to put too much effort into the movie quotes as most of it is self-explanatory.

Assertion One: None of the directors, producers, or actors have a say in the books nor should they be considered smarter than us.

Appealing to authority is already usually a bad way to debate, but to appeal to someone that isn't even an authority is even worse! That is basically what you are doing when you quote them.

The only true authority is JKR and none of her quotes outright deny H/Hr in a way that puts it to rest forever.

The next level of authority although much less so than JKR would be English teachers/English majors/those who analyze literature/etc...
HP is a book after all. I happen to know people on both sides that fit this level of authority.

The next level of authority are psychologists. Many comment that the characters' actions in the books match real life so these people also have a lot of say on analyses of the actions of the characters and predictions on future actions. Most people would place them equal to the English teachers/English majors/etc.. level, but I don't. HP first and foremost is a book. If the psychologists misinterpret the book wrongly in the first place...than their analysis will be wrong.

Assertion Two: Stephen Kloves only knows a little bit more than we do, but only what he needs to know Just enough so that JKR will not let him contradict stuff in future books.

Evidence:

No, not defeat, I should of explain myself better. What I meant was whatever evedince that is prested by H/Hrs, R/Hr will say that they are just really good friends and love eachother in a brotherly sisterly way, whatever is presented by Hr/R, H/Hrs will say them brickering means nothing, and JKR is just tricking us when she said,"There is something going on between Ron and Hermione." That's what I meant, people will think what they want and inturpert it the way they want.

Wow! ThePhoenixEffect those are really good points. Reading that it makes me a proud Harry and Hermione shipper!!

This is a little part from the books.

Assertation One~ In GoF absolutely all Hermione and Ron people say that Hermione was jealous of Ron liking Fleur and not her.

That simply does not hold up with me. The first time Hermione or everyone saw Fleur all she did was complain. Normally I would quote but as most people who take notice to my posts would know that I still have my books confiscated. (I have the audio on pre-order at my newsagent ~where I just got a job! Yay!!) To me Fleur is one of the more irritating charcters. Sometimes when two people see each other they just don't like each other. ~That is a prime case.

In closing I would like to also say that when everyone ~Grew Up~ in GoF Hermione and Ron spent so much time snapping at each other that I wouldn't like to be around them all to long. I suppose it is not to the marvellous extent that ThePhoenixEffect has gone to but I hope it gives you something to think about.

I'm sorry moderaters if this is not in the format you want but I don't want to type out all that stuff again. Check out the H/Hr supporters link right above this one and I put my valid points there. It's a big paragraph so I'll save bandwith. Aww shoot I should have read more before I posted that big paragraph in the wrong section. All I see when I look at R/Hr supporters is "they have tension" and "they have the 'spark.'" Well I might give you that much but in what possible way can it work long run? Please answer that for me. Sorry bout the ranting but I just needed to get it out. Sure, Hermione and Ron could get together but the real question is will it last? And by the way, nice work PheonixEffect.

And perhaps if you listed your reasons then I would be able to reply to them....

No one yet has been able to explain away what the ThePhoenixEffect wrote so I suppose the debate is leaning towards us the Harry/Hermione people.

Fleur and Hermione hated each other there was no jealousy just two girls having a dislike...It happens...

Hermione and Ron scream/bicker/almost tear each others hair out. I doubt IF thet went out they would stay together. H/Hr makes good sense.

Well, I'd only listen to JK, but that woman hardley ever gives a direct answer, and since ppl seem to like quotes, well here's what i could find:

Dana, you are such a hypocrite. I have never seen you get onto any Hr/H shippers about not having any proof or whatever. What's up with that? You biased or what? Can't get on to your own kind or what, huh? I want another moderater on here who is Hr/R and one that is H/Hr so that we can have two and it'll be more fair that way. No offense meant to be taken, this is just want I'm getting from what I've read in these threads. I understand this forum is for all ages, but most children under the age of 10 can not cite their opinions. It's too much work when the whole point of this thread is just to discuss our opinions.

Never have I've seen a person be so rude. Dana is the last person in this forum who you should be talking like this to.

I'm sorry, but I have not seen Dana say ANYTHING about her opinions about any ship in here. All her posts in this thread are about us following her example of how our posts should be. Never have I seen her write her input about the ships.

It's just a coincidence that some of our R/Hr shippers did not follow her guidelines, so she had to correct them.

Her first post: It was to set the rules of the thread, and how our posts should be.
Her second post: She reminded a few members to follow the thread rules.
Her third post: Complimenting on how great one of the member's post was.
Her fourth post: Telling one of our members that their post was not what the thread was all about.

If you want to prove me otherwise, I would like to see you try. I personally think whatever she said in her posts in this thread was never hypocritical or biased or unfair.

well for me, whenever i read any of the books i never see the h/hr thing happening that is why i like the r/hr ship.
here is all the reasons why i think this can happen. i know people have already read this, but it is why i like this ship so much.

Well, it's just what I've been seeing in this thread and in others that I have read though. Sorry if you found me rude, but I like to say the truth whenever I can, and that's what I was getting from her in this thread and in others. I'll try to do better next post.

Never, ever have I been so insulted.

I have gone out of my way to be fair around here and I have NEVER got onto ANYONE about their opinions - if it seems as though the majority of people I'm onto around here are R/Hr shippers then maybe that's because they are the ones who have the hardest time seeming to understand the rules.

Dear god, I am so mad right now, I'm on the verge of leaving everyone just get on with it around here because I am absolutely sick to death of trying to get people to understand some simple rules that are there to make life easier for everyone.

If you've got a problem with my fairness then you'd better start posting some examples but DONT do it in this thread because it's off topic. PM me or contact Matthew, the site administrator.

And as a newbie, you're offering some pretty **I wish swearing was allowed on this forum, because I could really use some expletives to put here** strong opinions which I'd really appreciate you backing up. I presume that you bothered to read ALL my posts before making such a sweeping generalisation...

Take this to PM or Matthew if you'd like to comment further, or else, if its possible, I'm going to lose my temper even more than I already have done.

Dana you have every right to feel insulted! That was a horrible thing to say to one of the fairest people that I know! It was worse than that horrible message that that polish person sent me ~I got it fully translated and it was pretty ewww.~

I had a little look in the Ron/Hermione thread and all it seemed to say was how evil are the people that like Harry/Hermione I thought that was rude...

Back on topic! Again!
Harry and Hermione
Assertation One. ~ I believe that Harry and Hermione have the strongest foundation as friends because they have been through some pretty traumatic things that instead of pushing them away from each other has brought them together.

Harry and Ron have been through a lot together I knowthat before you start going agro at me!
Rescuing Sirius. The most boring chapter about Grawp with them together. Outwitting Umbridge. In GoF when Harry was fighting with Ron there was a lot of Harry and Hermione action.
When two people share an experience similar to this it can do either two things ~they will hate each other or ~It will make them closer.
For example in Australia in the 1970's (No I am not that old) a baby *was* taken by a dingo whilst the family of three were on holiday. Eventually after a lot of *corruption* by the police the mother was charged with murder. The husband and father knew she did not do it and she was acquitted. But, shortly afterwards they both filed for divorce. Why am I telling you this? Because it is an example of how a traumatic experience can seperate two people that loved each other very much. As for the other...A couple of weeks ago a group of friends were taken by a crocodile one woman was a hero and Steve Irwin style *wrestled it* whilst another person shot it in the head. They survived and I have never seen a greater show of unity ~At least for the television~
Those are direct examples of experiences breaking people up or joining them together. I am inferring that it will go the right way for Harry and Hermione because their experiences haven't driven them apart.
Now I'm getting told to get off the computer before it hails. Some sort of holiday!!!

that all sounds true, but what about all of the evidence suppoting ron and hermione? i am not going to say anything because that would just be repeating other posts

Well I won't deny that there isn't some evidence supporting Ron and Hermione. Just that the higher compatability between Harry and Hermione as I and a few other supporters have stated it out-weighs the Ron + Hermione movement..

I'd like to add to Kreacher's post that not a single bit of the evidence I've seen supporting a Ron/Hermione relationship points that they will get past the fighting part and on to the relationship part. Yes, the attraction may be there but attraction isn't enough for a healthy relationship. You need companionship, trust, and a bit of compatability if you want a good conversation. This, I do not see in the R/Hr ship. I see fighting, and polar opposite characteristics. Yes, opposites attract but isn't the other half of the Harry Potter series about mistaken identity?

Every book there except OotP there is a person who isn't who we think they are. JKR could work this into relationships too. We see R/Hr, H/G ships and some of us say "that looks like Molly and Arther" or "Just like James and Lily." Never have I seen JKR say anything about parallels. She could be using this to make us argue like so and then bring up the mistaken identity theme and give us a H/Hr or something like that. Those are two big loopholes you still have to fill and I think that the last one is heavily tied in with the first. It might even be the first one in a different wording.

How would R/Hr work out? Fighting+nothing in common=Not good. I see a brakeup in the air. You also have to go back to "this is Harry's story" point and show how that won't steal light from Harry. The whole series is about him, from his perspective! Oi! Once again, I gotta learn to summarize. Maybe that should be in my signature. Hm.

[COLOR=blue][FONT=Arial]Hey!
I am a R/Hr shipper.
many HHr'ers are groaning right now, but here, ahere are some really good links that are NOT Biest, they carefully analize the books, and the books alone. als, is a video clip by BBC with JKR, On the H/Hr , R/Hr issue.

1) Essay on H/Hr. this is about the clues JKR has given, and how H/Hr must be very diffaclut to forsee. it does not totally dismiss that, but it show how hard a time JKR would have making it believeable. It also does not use clues to try to prove R/Hr, just to show the differences beetween the to friendships.

2) JKR H/Hr statement. some fans blatantly ignore this, simply becaues they don't want to admit what she says. an official excerpt from a BBC tv interview. may take some time to load, due to connection speed.

3) Han Solo, and Leia. both HATED each other, but found true love aside the bickering. (Do not use The Luke catch, HHer's, my GF and I were the same way.)

So, these are the reasons why I fell for R/Hr. the essay, the interview, but mostly, because Ron and Hermione are just like my Girlfriend and me!

[IMG]http://www.ronandhermione.net/animations/icons/anne-sidekick06.gif[/IMG

P.S. R/R my Fanfic, Harry Potter and the Half Blood Prince!
thanx.

First off, in that essay, the only thing I saw that could really be used was that Harry doesn't find Hermione attractive. Hermione has different priorities than Ron and Harry and therefore, is less affected by humor, bossy, and slightly annoying. When she argues with anyone, except for Ron, it is always because it is logical, for a good cause, or for someone's safety or education. Harry doesn't listen to her even when she is right or more logical than he is because he doesn't like being bossed around or manipulated. He's had enough of that for a life time. You also got to go to think "what is right for Harry and what is easy?" For example, when he saw the vision with Sirius, his first instinct was to go and save him. Hermione, being logical as always, does what is right and tries to stop him before he does something stupid or what Voldy wants him to do. In this way, she at least convinces him to check for Sirius. As for the movie, ThePheonixEffect disarmed that whole thing earlier in the thread. Read that and then argue about that before saying we balantly ignore things such as that.

And number three, as I have stated above, JKR never once, from what I've seen in the past 5 months, has written, typed, or spoken of using parallels. 4/5 books in this series have had a theme of mistaken identity. By applying this principle to relationships, we can see that parallels are ways to mislead all of us.

Esrb99, please read the posts before you post, otherwise we'll go in circles for hours with nothing new. I'm still waiting for someone to fight off my "how will R/Hr work out" question.

First of all, Bandoth,
to your question in your past post..
My GirlFriend Is Much like Hermione. She hates cursing, extreme pda, public slander, racial/religious/other descrimination, etc. I, on the otherhand, curse, sometime carry too far in public makeout sessions, and publicly degrade Bush, Kerry, and Michael Jackson.

Hermione also hates cursing, anything that shows lack of respect for school rules (ie; pda), and does not take lightly racial descrimination and public slander.
Ron curses quite frequenly, (though we must use our imagination to deciper the symbols) rejoices in Harry and Cho's public relationship, and shows little respect for houselves, and loves finding ways to publicly mangle malfoy. (ie; heart thrown at Malfoy in GoF)

What I am getting at, is though She and I literally were at each oter's throats at least three times a week, I still idolized her and fantazsized about her. we STILL bicker often, but we both work hard at what we want and support one antohers persuits, that if seperated, we seem to know how the other feels.
It is like what my American History instructor said. "As voting Americans, we have the right to tease our president. but if a foriegen ambassador does, we're on there ass faster than you can say Iraq." this is true, Americaa did this during the Spanish-American War. Ron is the same. if someone picks on Hermione, He totally blows his top. Harry and Ginny do not, and Harry does not each time Ron is made fun of. yet Ron picks on her good-naturely, as we begin to see through the course of the series hte bickering becomes more tame, and we see ron let Hermione win more starting in the 2nd half of GoF.


As to the essay, Mrs. Weasley already Mothers him. He constantly defies all authourity figures, including Hermione. if he dated her, theoretically, he would have tostart to really listen to her warnings, (not to mention snape, McGonagall, and Dumbledore) If he wants to stay on her good side. Ginny, on the other hand, just told him his mistakes (at christamstime inOotp) and le him truly make his own choices. Luna is the same. she does not try to hold Harry back from the DoM (Department of Mysteries) but merely states her opinion. Harry, as it seems, would rather have a Girlfriend who showed him other options, not force the most direct down his throat. also, mix beetween Harry's Depression, and Hermione's lack of social communication would truly make a poor relatonship. I mean, come on? Harry/Cho was only good becaues of the arguements, which were more hurtful than Ron and Hermione's. (remember, Ron and Hermione passed the main hurtfull stage in book three, most of their arguemdnt now are lighter and petty, and end rather quickly with no long reprecussions.)
I know that this most likely had no effect whatsoever, and you probablly will come up with some other fantastic questions. I really enjoyed them, it's much better seeing these more than, "well, he's the Hero, so he gets the girl."I just feel like Ron becaues, im my band, I may be drummer/ co singer, but becaues my co-singer is a guitarist, he gets the most populatrity. if he got the girl, I'd be pissed. literally. he actually was the one who told me to ask her out. he set us up, and for that I am thankfull. Thanx, Robbie!

ahem... whre was I? oh yes, he also found a girl a few months later, my sister's best friend (my sis is younger, but her friend is in my grade.) so, If I didn't support R/Hr, I'd feel that Id be saying that I support my GF and my best Friend.
out!

Well, that's excellent about you and your girlfriend. Personally with my fiancee (is that how you spell it?) we are the same person and have the same views which I suppose is why we're together.

To what you have said. I think that whole statement was a little ambiguous because the way that is was written could've been easily reversed into being a positive for Harry and Hermione shippers.

I agree with Bandoth.

It's nice to know that people can get along with others in this world. But, If you were at each other's throats every 5 minutes, do you think you would be together? Almost any time that we see Harry leave the scene he comes back to a bickerfest. Do you do that with your girlfriend? With a bit of analysis, I have seen that Ron and Hermione wouldn't be friends if it weren't for Harry. In fact, Hermione would be dead if Harry didn't remember her at the last minute on Halloween way back when. True, feelings can grow over time but from what I can see, they have absolutely nothing in common. Do you at least agree with your girlfriend on some things? And most every time you fight is your girlfriend right? With Ron and Hermione, there is tension. But is it good tension? If Harry weren't there it would be hateful tension or no tension at all because there would be no Hermione. The only common thing that I've ever seen Ron and Hermione have is Harry. Ron is an athlete and Hermione is a "bookworm." Ron is lazy. Hermione goes the extra mile to get that one last point. I could go on and on. Opposites attract but polar opposites never meet.

As you didn't bring up Angua's points on this thread and instead chose to just post the link, I'll pretty much do the same. I'd prefer if you take the points from her essay (which you did later) and only cite 'snippets' from it for evidence.

This essay by Lleyki shows how you can 'flip the script' on Angua's essay to show that those points also apply to Ron.

http://talk.portkey.org/index.php?showtopic=3841

As for 'goodshipclip' I've already posted our position on that a page or two back. Check it out. I labeled it the "Katie Couric Quote'.

I'd also like to pass a motion that personal lives should not be brought into the debate. I'm sorry, but things will get messy if we do so. Trust me.

I would like to thank kreacher_the_house_elf not only for complimenting my personal relationship, but also my politeness here on the forum. yes, I know some are right *****, but some H/Hr'ers are also. I've seen the worst of both, so I know that by keeping my head down, only fags will totally **** on me.

as to a few questions/ statements I shall reply to:


1) Do you do that with your girlfriend?

Before we started dating, We bickerd constantly over every small thing. school, crushes (both our fake ones movies, sports, absoluteally everything. my friends, (those in my band,) told me that I liked her, but I always denied it, thinking she liked some guy in the grade above us. and yes, we still argue 3-5 times a week, lately about Kerry-Bush-Nader-Tic Tacks. the only thing ROn/Hermione like is DA, while me and my GF beforehand only agreed on soccer. (position, and team: Brazil)

2) This essay by Lleyki shows how you can 'flip the script' on Angua's essay to show that those points also apply to Ron.
http://talk.portkey.org/index.php?showtopic=3841

I read this, but it over looked two things: When Hermione kissed Harry's cheek, he briefly noted that she had never done it before. When she kissed Ron however, he was described as dazed, and even did not notice the slytherins snickering or the badges they were wearing. Harry merely acknowladged Gred and Forge, and walked out to the Durlseys.

I know many have used that, but the essay stated that Ron shwed no difference in Harrys behavior to Hermione over the past five years, when that seemed to be one that held a major clue. Ron also Points towards his approval of Harry/Ginny on the train back in Ootp, when he asks who Ginny likes. (he stairs pointedly at Harry)

These may be used frequently, but they DO point towards H/G and R/Hr. Ginny Does know how Harry feels, she Was posessed by Tom, and Helped him out of his Rut around christmas instead of saying, "Harry, you need to see Dumbledore" or, "Harry, you should talk to Sirius or McGonagall" which is always Hermione's advise. The only time ginny give him some, and it turns ot be be one he listens to.

I do not fully believe that H/Hr is impossiable, just that the books show a lean towards R/Hr. If it IS H/Hr, I WILL fully support Hary and Hermione.

Thank you for those who responded to my post, I hope that you shall all respod to this one!

MOD EDIT : Watch the language please. Your post has been edited. You'll be officially warned if you're caught using that word again, no matter how good your post was.

Here is more I found:


"[Harry and Hermione] are very platonic friends. But I won't answer for anyone else, nudge, nudge, wink, wink..."
-- J.K. Rowling, National Press Club Luncheon, October 1999

"I don't know. I think they'll get together."
-- Rupert Grint on whether Ron and Hermione will eventually get married

"In the fourth book, it looks like Hermione is getting flirty with Ron Weasley."
-- Emma Watson, on the budding Ron and Hermione romance

"I think [Ron and Hermione] are going to get together. That's my prediction."
-- Daniel Radcliffe, on predicting the characters' future




Ron & Hermione? Why it makes perfect sense...


They bring out the best in each other: Ron and Hermione complement each other perfectly... At times, Hermione can be rigid, black-and-white, stickler-to-the-rules type of person, and she puts enormous pressure on herself and others to live up to her expectations. Ron gets her to ease up on herself more, and tap into her fun, rebellious side. She laughs when she is with him, and learns to appreciate the not-so-serious aspect of things... Ron, on the other hand, can be undisciplined and not take things seriously enough. Hermione helps ground him, and gives him drive and motivation. He has focus when he's with her, and he surprises himself as a result...

Because they can each give the other something the other is missing in his/her life: Ron grew up in a large family and has always been overshadowed by his brothers (and by Ginny as well, who's the only girl), and since coming to school at Hogwarts, has been largely overshadowed by Harry as well. With Hermione, he feels noticed and special, and he knows he's not "just another Weasley" or "Harry Potter's best friend." Hermione on the other hand, tends to bury herself in her books and her studies, and Ron is the one who most often tries to pull her out of her "element" and see that life can be silly and fun. Harry may recognize that Hermione can be uptight a lot of the time, but it is really Ron who makes the effort to try and loosen her up by teasing her and trying to get her to see that there is more to life than school and rules. (from dutchtulips)

Because they have more in common than people think: Ron and Hermione may seem like complete, diametrical opposites at first glance (she, the brainy, sensible witch; he, the fiery, impulsive wizard), but, they are actually very much alike where it counts. They've both proven themselves to be warm, generous, funny, clever, compassionate, and yes, passionate. When they both believe in something firmly, they hold on to their beliefs and won't back down from anyone or be intimidated.

Because their dynamic is very different than Hermione's dynamic with Harry... With Harry, Hermione is very motherly and sisterly: always watching out for him, protecting him, guiding him. With Ron, however, it's a whole 'nother story. She banters with him, challenges him, engages him, and he does the same with her. They are on very equal footing and sparks fly whenever they interact .

Because their fighting isn't mean-spirited; it's the type of fighting that belies the unresolved "tension" between two people with a nascent attraction that is only now coming to the surface as they begin to mature... At the end of the day, these are two people who recognize that they have differences, but respect and love each other immensely, and value the other's different point of view.

Because they understand each other better than anyone else in the world: Ron and Hermione are both very close to Harry, and it's true that Harry knows each of them very, very well, but there's also an even deeper level that Harry hasn't quite tapped into, but that Ron and Hermione have with each other... Ron and Hermione, quite simply, know each other inside and out. They know exactly how the other will react to something, what the other will say in any given situation, and notice all the little things when something is afoot. Case in point, when Hermione was having problems with her time-turner in Prisoner of Azkaban, it was Ron who noticed that she hadn't been acting like herself, that she hadn't been eating or sleeping, and that she was running herself ragged; Harry didn't notice until much later (after Ron had pointed it out). And in Goblet of Fire, Hermione was able to guess (very perceptively at that) the root cause of Ron's pulling away from Harry, something Harry himself didn't quite understand until Hermione pointed it out...
How can we be sure?

Overwhelming evidence and major foreshadowing in the books and movies (see below)...

Because it gives Rowling the perfect chance to work in a romance in the novels without it detracting from the main storyline, which is Harry's constant battle with Voldemort and his forces of evil. This allows her to have Harry focus on what he needs to do, and to balance the horror and drama of Harry's main storyline, she can use the romantic subplot of Ron and Hermione's evolving relationship to contrast and bring light to the dark parts of the story.

Because Han Solo was the one who ended up with Princess Leia in Star Wars, and Ron and Hermione seem to be playing the Han and Leia roles in the HP series...

And finally... Because J.K. Rowling herself said so ...
thanx.

~Esrb99~

MOD EDIT : And don't double post either. Read the rules before you post again, please.

I think you missed the point of that essay. That essay by Lleyki showed the flaws of Angua's essays by doing the same thing in return.

That essay you've posted is simply one person's interpretation of the text it doesn't convince me. It takes things out of context for one and as shown by Lleyki's essay, many of the things can also be said of Ron. Appealing to Angua as evidence is an improper appeal to authority because Angua is really no authority on such because she isn't JKR. JKR is the only true authority.

Also I think it is interesting that JKR is not letting Harry think about his relationship with Hermione. We have a theory of 'interruptions' here.

Actually Ron has shown to have been antagonized by the possibility of H/Hr.

To Phoenix, How Has Harry loosened up Hermione? I would like to kow? I think both have. Hermione also had the amous, "Not as a last Resort!" line, what do you say to that? and the Krum arm? Ron must know of Krum telling Harry about his dislike of His headmaster, it can't be "The enemy excues" (I know this is often brought up, but H/Hr'ers only say, "Why dou you always bring that up? is that all you got?" yet they never find their explination for "Not as a last resort," and the krum arm.)

thank you for the response.

~Esrb99~

Good work Pheonix! My thoughts exactly. In addition to not bringing up personal life, (though I do like to hear that people can get along together) I shall, once again, invoke my own "thingy" of mistaken identity. So many times JKR has mislead us by small details in cannon where these actually point to a different thing. Crouch Jr. said he was looking in Snape's office for dark stuff when he was really stealing ingrediants for a polyjuice potion.

If anything, Ron infuriorates Hermione. The only times I see them actually "working" together is when they are helping Harry. The only time Ron has actually agreed with Hermione (without looking in the book) is when she suggests Harry teach the DA. Once again, all about Harry. This is Harry's story. I'm not saying that the hero always gets the girl. I am saying that you can't take the spotlight from Harry. When Ron and Hermione fall out in book 3 it stays that way for a while because it seriously affects Harry. It leaves him almost just as much alone as at the Dursleys. He is torn. You can't do that to Harry for the rest of the series! He will be alone if you put Ron and Hermione together. Many people ignore the fact that Harry hated living with the Dursleys. Though he would probably never admit it, it wasn't because of the lack of food or the chores or being a punching bag. It was because he was alone. Being alone for 10 years can really do some damage. Some people balantly ignore this! When even one of his friends "deserts" him, he becomes miserable. What would happen if his two best friends got together and had a good relationship? For at least a small time period, at least, he would be completely alone. He hates being at the Dursleys for a month or two but he knows he has friends now. What if it seems like they forgot him? That, is what I want to hear.

I truly see where you are coming from, but Harry and Hermione would be too... boring. sorry to say, but he is always moping around, and she is always worrying about work.

"It is perfectly clear. Harry loves and admires Hermione because she is smart, brave, talented, quick thinking, sensible, hard working, generous, and loyal. He knows he can trust her and depend on her to support him. Those are admirable qualities indeed, but they are not all Harry wants in a friend. Harry also clearly expresses the areas in which Hermione falls short in the qualities he most values in a friend:

· ‘Miss him?’ said Harry. I don’t miss him…’

But this was a downright lie. Harry liked Hermione very much, but she just wasn’t the same as Ron. There was much less laughter and a lot more hanging around in the library when Hermione was your best friend. Harry still hadn’t mastered Summoning Charms, he seemed to have developed something of a block about them, and Hermione insisted that learning the theory would help. They consequently spent a lot of time poring over books during their lunchtimes. (GF278/316)

Harry misses Ron because he is fun. Ron’s humor and playfulness entertain Harry and cheer him up. Hermione, for all her other wonderful qualities, can’t do this for Harry. She doesn’t lighten up his dark moods, distract him from his troubles, or engage him in the giggly, giddy companionship that is such a large part of many friendships. On the contrary, her serious, earnest attitude makes things worse for him. Harry does not enjoy poring over books and sitting in the library, and it does not even help him learn the Summoning Charm. He longs for laughter and fun" -angua

and,

"There is a reason why Harry has both Ron and Hermione as best friends. Together, they have the qualities he needs. Ron keeps him happy and Hermione keeps him safe. Ron gives him intuition and Hermione gives him logic. Hermione gives him access to her prodigious store of knowledge and Ron gives him access to his boisterous, loving family. Ideally, when Harry finds his true love interest, she (I am assuming a “she” at this point) will combine the best qualities of both Ron and Hermione." -angua

I know both essays are partially bisaid, but these are really important aspects in their relationship. Ron and Hermione return from Hogsmeade in year 3, "looking like they had the time of their lives"
When Hermione wnet with Harry, they barely spent time together and Harry had a miserable time. (granted, Harry was under invisibility cloak, but both still made little effort to converse.

thank for reading.

~Esrb99~