I was reading a Fan Fic the other day and I saw something thats could be quite likely, Regulus Black was still alive and it was actually him Snape killed under the cover of Polyjuice Potion, It has never been mentioned that it stops working when the user is deceased and he could've beend rinking it when Harry wasn't looking, it would certainly explain how the entrance to the Horcrux room was found so easily, surely you can't find entrances just because of magical traces, because the only possible way would be for that particular piece of wall to have a different texture to the others. We also don't know how soon after death 'Dumbledore's' body was put into a coffin (could've been a matter of minutes). This assuming of course that Regulus is R.A.B, which I and just about every other Harry Potter fan does. Also J.K.Rowling never mentioned which Dumbledore is dead, she only said "Dumbledore is definitely dead", it may well have been Albus's brother. I'm well aware that this is all a bit of a mess and I sincerely apologise for that as there are 1 or 2 theories all chucked into 1 huge chunk, so, sorry. I might have forgotten something so if you reply to this I'll make sure I give a good reply to your reply.

Nah, he's dead.

Think about Albus. Do you think he's the kind of person to willingly sacrifice his brother, just so that he may live?

And Polyjuice Potion wears off after an hour.

And Hagrid brought out Dumbledores body wrapped in a cloak/clothe or something like that.

Anyways, he's dead.

JKR has said straight out that DD is dead!

Also, why would RAB bother to go through all that trouble to show Harry the cave, if he already had the horcrux. He could easily have given DD his memory of doing it and let Harry see it in the penseive. None of it makes sense.

DD is dead, he sees death as "the next great adventure" and would NEVER have anyone die in his stead!

While the wording of JKR on August 2nd can be construed to say that Albus Dumbledore is not dead, and in fact Aberforth Dumbledore is the one who is dead. We can say this because she never explicitly states Albus Dumbledore... just Dumbledore..

As for the Polyjuice potion.. yes it wears off after an hour, but I wonder if the effects are different when the person is dead. We know that Barty Crouch Jr's mother pretended to be him in Azkaban and died. Unless she took the potion right before her last breath, how did she not get noticed? The Azkaban guards do not seem very punctual and would probably delight in leaving a body for all to see. Either way, the body is never seen again once Hagrid moves it. When Hagrid brings the body it is wrapped in cloth and hidden from sight. I still cant get the wording "was what Harry knew to be Dumbledore's body"... it makes it sound like it was someone else's body, and not the Dumbledore that Harry thinks it is.

So this is very plausible.

But I think Albus Dumbledore died, sadly.

~Albus

Please pay attention, we don't know how soon after death the body was put in a casket and he may have been drinking it without Harry looking, AND we don't know if it wears off after that person has been killed, thanks for the constructive criticism though, and Samsmom, sorry about complaining about the criticism last time, I was having a bad day

I can see that you have a point, and you did make me open my mind to the possibility that Dumbledore is no dead. I also agree that R.A.B. is Regulus Black: it all fits -> he found out about Voldemort's secret, he found and took one of the Horcruxes and maybe destroyed it. But the thing that you said that doesn't make sense to me is the possibility that Regulus was the one Snape killed (polyjuice potion).
When Voldemort found out that Regulus. knew about his Horcruxes, he went to look for him and he killed him himself. Sirius B.stated that when he was explaining to Harry his family tree. So if we assume that R.A.B. indeed is Regulus, I don't think there is more than 0.5% of posibility that Regulus Black was still alive and accompanied Harry to the cave.
Also to me it looks as if it really was Dumbledore that went with Harry to the cave beacuse of all his knowledge about how the boat only measuerd power (not weight) and how to open the rock wall with blood. (read the post about Dumbledore's bloody secret).
Well, I think this is all I've got to say.....this is all very confussing.....

I think that Albus Dumbledore is dead! JK Rowling said that Dumbledore was dead.Of course, i may be wrong , and she might be talking about Aberforth Dubledore, but i don't think that Dubledore would let anyone die instead of him, he's not the kind of wizard to do that!And about the polyjuice potion, again i think it was Dumbledore.though i could very wrong..it has a 1% chance that the Dumbledore JK Rowling said was dead is aberforth.But that could be just like jk rowling, to do something like that. but we may never know until the book is out!i wish dumbledore was back in the seventh book, but we can't be sure.can we? Anyway, that was a very interesting theory King Richard III!!

If it's any comfort, Dumbledore will be back for the next book, we just don't know which one, lol. So, if anyone else cares to make a suggestion then fel free to messgae me and I'll give you my honest opinion, I don't criticise much so I'll probably give you a very nice positive, complementary answer

Yes, this seems a giant obstacle for people to get over.. Dumbledore's nature of sacrificing people for the greater good. While Dumbledore may not have asked Aberforth to die for him, which would be out of character, I do see him as being persuaded by Aberforth to follow such a plan. I can see Albus discussing the situation, and Aberforth suggesting the idea. Albus obviously would protest, but if Aberforth felt strongly about it, he may just give in. You see Dumbledore leads the Order of the Phoenix and regularly put the lives at risk of those who have volunteered themselves. He says to Harry, at the end of OotP, "what did I care if numbers of nameless and faceless creatures and people were slaughtered if you were happy, in the here and now" (paraphrased). This shows that Dumbledore would not be against sacrifice.

~Albus

it seems likely what your saying but-- doesnt harry have to kill lv by himself?so if dd is there hes gonna help harry obviously.so what work does harry have?nothing.even though i dont wanna acccept it,hes probably dead.

It may all just be a set up so Harry has even more reason to kill Lord Voldemort. I know he has reason enough as it is, but maybe Dumbledore was only training him up so he doesn't have to rely on others

Okay, this topic is all over the place and the same thing that I'm going to say is being said: JKR has varified that Dumbledore's dead! What other proof do you need? She's just the author, you know. I don't get it why people still think he's alive. Could someone please explain this to me?

The best way I can explain it Madmoiselle Lilly, is that there is hope that he is still alive.

I have just finished re-reading HBP again, and I am surprised that no one had posted this, but when Harry, McGonagall, and the rest of the Heads went up to Dumbledore's office, his portrait had appeared. "And a new portrait had joined the ranks of the dead headmasters and headmistresses of Hogwarts: Dumbledore..." (page 626 U.S. version hard-cover). With this piece of evidence I think Albus Dumbledore is dead.

First I was convinced DD was dead. Then I was convinced he was alive. Then, after a massive argument in Dumbledore's last Day a few months ago, I thought he was dead. Well, I WANT him to be alive. Maybe he is. Here's the thing--I did pretty much demonstrate that the green liquid in the basin in the cave was Draught of Living Death. Sooooo, since DD drank Draught of Living Death, he would be "dead," so JKR could say, in all honesty, that he is dead. But Draught of Living Death, must have majical properties so that the person comes back. It is in the school books, so it would not be a mortal poison; the kids would not be taught that. So I think he IS ALIVE.

As to the portrait, please, DD could easily rig that. OR, the potion could have caused that since he would be temporarily dead.

i do not think albus dumbledore is still alive it would make harrys quest easier and not as scary if he was

its the old"the master dies so that his faithul student finishes the job"thing

but then again we have nether known JKR to copy any thing and she twists nearly everything that seems untwistable,its the bit in the seventh book im most looking foward to apart from the harry/ voldy final showdown.

but i think dumbledore IS dead and i dont think he could have rigged the portrait

josh

Well, in Book 1, Snape tells us that certain ingredients fused together make a sleeping potion so powerful that it is also called the Draught of Living Death. So going by that statement, I would assume it puts the drinker into a very deep sleep.

Also, No spell/potion can bring someone back from the dead. And it's highly unlikely that any potion can reverse the effects of the Avada Kedavra.

The key thing that you seem to not understand is that the Killing Curse hit Dumbledore square in the chest. No spell or potion can reverse that effect.

It really does go against everything I've been trying to fight here, but, I think you're right, Dumbledore is dead, although there is 1 way to beat the Killing Curse but I SERIOUSLY doubt he would resort to it. Create a Horcrux. Keep up the replies, it triggers my brain into action

[[quote]Its the old the master dies so his noble student can finish the job

And Jo said it was not Star Wars .

DD is dead Jo said so.

As much as I's love for Dumbledore to be alive, he truly is dead. JK said so herself that he's dead, and that he wouldn't be 'pulling a Gandalf.'

If Jo has offed a main character, they may be able to come back through memories (which include portraits) then that is the only way they may come back at all. This is Jo's world we are talking about and she has established death is still final.

i know alot of people who want DD to be alive and i think thats why you are all looking into this so much. i dont want him to be dead either but lets face it he is sooo dead. none of us want it to be true, but it is.

besides you are making these theiroes way to complicated. like R.A.B. is regalus black(sorry i cant check spelling cuse my book is at home and im not) AND hes alive AND he saved DD. not that i think thats wrong (it could be right) but i think its just too complicated to be true.

i wonder if she was just not misquoted. her saying dumbledore really died and dumbledore is really dead are two hugely different things. there is definitely something not right with the death scene. the killing curse always affects people the same way, they drop dead with their eyes open. dumbledore was blown backwards and eyes were closed. the killing curse can be performed but unless the caster MEANS it, it doesn't kill - so explained by moody, evil moody at least. so he spoke the curse, but performed a silent curse that would in fact kill dumbledore - had to keep his promise! but gave him enough time to, yes i know it is ridiculous, transform into a phoenix. we didn't see his body at the funeral, remember. something is a foot. if it was a straight kill, dumbledore would have dropped dead there, on top of the tower, we would have seen his body on the table. but instead, blown backwards, eyes closed, locket out, no body, and harry sees a phoenix rise from the fire. something is up people.

ummm

maybe snape didnt mean it so it didnt kill dumbledore or maybe snape is powerfull enough(which i think hes is) to chant one curse but use a different one

i will check later in hbp but when snape made the unbreakable vow did he say he had to kill dumbledore i only remember that he promised to keep draco alive which he did

so maybe he didnt kill dumbledore but personally i think he is dead

josh

yes, the last one, the last promise was to comlete the task if draco failed. now, the only other thing of that could have been that he really didn't know what he was promising too, only having used legimency(sp?) to gleam that draco had a mission at the school, so then wasn't held by that bond.
i think he could be dead dead too, i just believe that something else, something fishy, is going on. it wasn't just a death.

he's dead! as much as it pains me to say it because well i don't want him to be dead he is! DD is as dead as sirius is! joe say so so we have to take her word for it! when has she ever lied to us? DD he probably knew that he could die so he must have left something for harry to help him but he is dead! i think RAB is also dead

like i said, not sure if she said he was dead dead, or if he died. big difference. see commented on the set of OOTP that dumbledore was giving her trouble in the 7th book. so he is not dead dead. i guarentee, something fishy.

Sorry but JKR said so.Hate to crush your false hopes,but on the inside we all knw he is dead.*humming sad song*


Jo don't like that we are going Star Wars,but think she doing that on us.She is not ,though,going Lord of the Rings on us

i am sorry, but it seems like you guys are forgetting who you are talking about, jk rowling loves making you think about other things. not just writing about something at face value. i am not saying he isn't dead, necessarily, but if he is dead, gone, food for worms, let's think about what that implies. 1) jk rowling forgot what the killing curse does - all of the other victims simply died, eyes open. not blown threw the air, eyes closed, 2) dumbledore is a wimp - instead of easily defeating whoever was coming through the door, like he did to a room full of powerful wizards in OOTP, he is only able to freeze harry, yes i know he was weakened from the drink, but hey, he's dumbledore, 3) dumbledore is the biggest idiot of all time - he was the only one who ever defended snape, 4) snape really is evil so everyone else who thinks he is going to be redeemed, including apparently the author from her comments, is wrong, 5) harry is going insane - he continually has a feeling of happiness/laughs during dumbledore's funeral. i could go on and on, but unless you are willing to concede these points, get off of everyone's back who thinks there is more than meets the eye to dumbledore's "death" and stop saying that they are just not willing to accept the facts. he might be dead, but his death was not just a simple death.

I see what you are saying Albus Dumbledore, and I hadn't thought of it like that. She didn't say "Albus" DD is dead, she just said DD is dead. I just can't see Albus using his brother like that, no matter how bad he is because of his goat experiments gone wrong. I think your final conclusion is correct and Albus is dead.

As for those who are talking about the effects of polyjuice potion on a dead body... we don't know... remember, when Mrs. Crouch died in Azkaban, it was the dementors that buried her, and they're blind. The polyjuice potion was used to trick the inmates not the dementors. The inmates saw Mr. and Mrs. Crouch coming and going from a visit to their son. The dementors only sensed one dying person in the cell, being visited by one dying person and one healthy one. They then sensed one dying person and one healthy one leaving, never realizing that the 2 dying people had switched places. Since the inmates saw what the polyjuice potion made them see, no one was the wiser.

There are still ways that DD can be part of the story... with the portraits, with the phoenix and who knows how else.

OK, saying that DD is dead, we also have to remember JKR's exact words... Dead is dead, if you're properly dead. Which, I think we can all agree means that at least one person is not "properly dead."

I think that the Draught of the Living Dead was used on RAB, by either Snape or Sirius, and that he will be back. There were never any specifics on his murder, just mentions that he was dead. What if Snape did it, and that's why DD trusts him so much, because he's never told anyone???

I also think that DD has to be dead, because I think he will release Sirius from the veil from the inside (DD's middle name is Percival, which means "pierce the veil" and he'd need to be behind the veil to get Sirius out... I think Sirius can return because he didn't go through the veil the normal way (by dying first) he went through alive. I don't think he will be released in time to help with the fight, but will be able to be a family for Harry after it's all over.

I think he might be alive because snape might have said the killing curse but in his head said Levicorpus because Dumbledore was blasted into the air and seemed to hang in one place for a moment so that what i think

As I have said before, I think Albus Dumbledore is dead. For your theory to be plausible Haggar, you would have to explain the jet of green light that lept from Snape's wand, and hit Dumbledore straight in the chest.

[color=#FF6666]

I believe Dumbledore is dead. He is old and was weakened from all the obstacles he had faced. All life ends in death, as did Dumbledore's.

prongs2010

i think dumbledore is still alive. me and my buddy hp_obsesser have a theory. dumbledore did die, but he didn't stay dead. dumbledore is an animagus! when he was laying on his tomb he burst into flame. just like a phoenix does when it dies. dumbledores anamagus is a phoenix. that would explain why harry thought he saw a flaming phoenix shoot out of the flames when dumbledores tomb caught fire. he was reborn from his ashes and flew away. dumbledore is still out there somewhere. of course then again why was his picture in the frame in his office if he is still alive? i have no idea. got any ideas anybody?

Well, JKR certainly wants us to think that since that is why she had Harry think he saw the phoenix. So this is a red herring or real. I want it to be so, but just don't know. There are so many good arguments both ways. Let's just say he is still alive and be smug when we are proved right in a few months. (Or not.)

I don't mean to be a downer, but I do think that Dumbledore is dead. But also believe that his character will figure greatly into helping Harry in Deathly Hallows. I think his portrait in the Headmaster's Office will help Harry even more. I think Dumbledore has more to show Harry and he will do so through the picture.

Thoughts?

I think you're correct, as with every other portrait, it will still contain all his knowledge, it will certainly help Harry very much. I mean, if you were in Harry's shoes, wouldn't you want Dumbledore to still be there to help you as much as possible? In a way, Dumbledore isn't dead cos his portrait should still have his personality and all that, minus of course the ability to duel

DD is dead that is the final word. Word

Dumbledore is DEAD!!! JK has confirmed it...



As for your theroy about the phoenix coming from the tomb, that was Fawkes, it said so in the book.
And it Dumbledore did die but not stay dead, the only way that would work is if he stayed in his animagus form. And I don't really think that it is possible to die but not stay dead...

Albus is dead. Thankfully he has a portrait to talk to and he has to have others. He is hogwarts, he will never truely die.

Hes dead, but the portrait will help.


Did anyone check if dumbledores percival name really does mean Pierce the Veil, cause that would definetly indicate someones coming back.

This is a bit late but anyway...
In reply to King Richard III's comment on Feb 27th I would like to say that I agree. It says at the end of book 6 that Harry suddenly realised how alone he is and how he would have to fight LV by himself with no one to protect him. I think that DD might have died to show Harry that he could not reley on people to protect him as nobody can stand in the way of Harry and LV.
I do not think that Snape killed DD for LV's sake, I believe he did it for DD. My reasons for thinking this are:

1) DD believed death to be "the next great adenture", he was certainly not afraid of death so when DD pleads with Snape on top of the North Tower, I don't think DD means "please don't kill me", I think he is asking Snape to do something else that they had probably arranged beforehand - maybe for Snape to kill DD for the reason above

2) When Harry is force feeding DD the potion in the cave in book 6, JKR wrote about Harry: " hating himself, repulsed by what he was doing..."
Later on, on top of the North Tower, JKR writes about Snape: " there was hatred and revulsion etched in the harsh lines of his face..." Now I don't think these two similarities are a coincidence on JKR's behalf, I think she wrote this on purpose to suggest that Harry and Snape were feeling the same way towards the taskes they were instructed to do by DD - ie they had promised DD they would do it against their will.
This could also be suggesting that Snape and Harry really are not that different from eachother and they both have the same intentions in the end.


Just incase I glossed over this in my previous comment I do not think the hatred and revulsion in Snape's face was towards DD but towards the task he had promised to do - just as Harry's was when he was force feeding DD the potion.

I simply think he is dead even though i wish he wasnt. That would be too much twist on the 7th book for her to bring him back. If anyone thinks he has horocruxes that is completly wrong.Because they are cowardly and think of all that Dumbledore said against them, he is definety not cowardly.

i seriously think that dumbledore is DEAD.........
the reason being that his potrait appeared in his office shortly after his death along with fawkes leaving his office, proving that he is DEAD,
but i am sure abt one thing ,he must have left behind some more clues or memories which couldhelp out harry in one way or the other in his search for horcruxes,so for that atleast he shud be going back to hogwarts atleast once.......
i also have a strong feeling that snape was always sincere to dumbledore and probably he might also try to help harry, now it all depends on wat JKR has planned for harry....................THE SCAR[size=7]

dumbledore is dead..jk rowling said so..i know that i don't want to believe that but it's true!so please stop arguing about whether he's dead or not because there's really no pnt in that just look at jk rowling's website(jkrolwing.com)..i agree with acidpops..what about the portrait and fawkes leaving?that must mean he's dead..din't you see how much evidence there is that he is dead?jk even said so!so please stop living in dreamland..even though i know you really want to(even i do), but you just have to know that he's dead anyway,thatz all there is to say - (sniffs)- on this- (eyes swelling up with water)- topic(cries).

I believe that Dumbledore's dead. I think he did all he needed to do for Harry before he died. I don't think he will be coming back, but I do think we still have much to learn about what all he's done in the Deathly Hallows.

Ok, as much as I hate to say this Albus Dumbledore is dead. But also think about this. His portrait in the Headmistress's office. Harry can still get help from him that way, right?

I really hate to say it also but JK did said "Dumbledore is definitely dead". I know that she did not specifically say which "DD" but woud you really expect albus DD to have someone die in his stead? i highly doubt it. before she said that he is dead i had this idea because i thought he was still alive. it went long like this.
First of all their was a a lot of emphasis on nonverbal spells. and at the end when snape says that hes the half blood prince we find out that he was already adept at creating his own spells during the time that he was in school. so where is the proof that snape might have said "avada kadavra" but meant something else.
since when has the avada kadavra caused someone to be lifted off the ground and be thrown backwards. when cedric was killed he just kinda fell over and when frank bryce was killed he died before he even fell down.
remember in OOTP when umbridge and the other ministry members shot stunning spells at Mcgonigall (sp?) she was lifted off the ground and then she fell backwards. snape is definitely a stronger wizard then was believed.

this is another idea. does everyone remember harrys first potions class? snape talked about the drought of living death, a bezeor being found in a goats stomach, and monkshood aka wolfsbane. a bezeor has been used in HBP to save ron from the poison in the wine bottle and the wolfsbane has been used in the wolfsbane potion for prof. lupin. the only one that hasnt been used is the draught of living death. the draught of living death put the drinker ino a deep sleep. and in the chapter "the pheonix lamnent" Fawkes is maybe trying to heal dumbledore back to his normal self.

those were my 2 theories of why DD was not dead but now that JK has said he IS dead well i guess they were both obviousley wrong.

Okay, this whole Dumbledore thing not being dead! It works, J.K. Rowling has always refered to Albus Dumbledore as Albus! Furthermore aside from all of the things we know. Could we all give this a huge gander and moment of contemplation!!!----> Maybe, Severus Snape and Albus Dumbledore have had this planned for the longest time.

Now, this logical explanation stems way back from the beginning. Snape has always but himself in the sinister position. Book One-SS---> we find Ron, Hermoiine and, Harry tracking Severus into the hall. through the devils snag, flying keys, and wizards chess, to figure out that it wasn't Snape but Querell!!!! Book Two-COS----> Professor Snape holds the ingredients to the Polyjuice potion in his herb closet.....How many wizards would allow something so easily made treacherous to be available to 2nd year students?? Book Three---->Professor Snape helps track down Sirius Black and unravel a plot between R.J. Lupin and Sirius to uncover what he didn't know(once again--helping harry)!!!! Book Four-GOF-----> Snape threatens to use Veritaserum on Harry because SOMEBODY(namely Barty Crouch Jr.) was stealing ingredients for polyjuice potion. And GOF is where we find that Albus Dumbledore would put his life on the fact the Severus Snape was no longer a death eater!!----------> Now, rolling all of that up, just from what I told you. If Snape and Dumbledore wanted to plot against Lord Voldy! What would be the best way to do it??? Make someone a traitor to suit traitors!!!!!!! Who better than one of the powerful potions master Hogwarts has known! Someone who was also once on Voldy's side!!!!!!!

Albus Dumbledore is probably more than healthy once again after a supposed treacherous Snape kills him. And Snape is probably going to be One of the most unlikely heroes to our Half Blood Prince!!!!!

A Little off topic but...

On wikipedia.org i searched regulus black and there are notable people stating that Regulus' middle name is Arcturus. R.A.B. ? It says JKR said to a Portugese translator that R.A.B. means Regulus Arcturus Black!!!!!! But she has not confirmed nor denied this statement any thoughts???? !!!!!!!!

A little? It's actually completely off topic, please post in the correct thread, it's not very hard to find