In this thread I want to discuss and explain the Changeling Hypothesis. It's a big long essay on what Harry and Voldemort are and what happens to Harry in Dumbledore's point of view. (Knowing what we do and assuming he is testing Harry to see if he is ready to know the prophesy.) You can find this hypothesis here. I'll be back tomorrow or so to start my first explination.

Oh, great!! I'd love for someone to translate all that into English for me... It looked an excellent theory - if slightly far fetched in some respects. I'm looking forward to reading your views on it!! I've been itching for a really good debate and some new ideas for ages!! (And it will make an exceedingly welcome change from the Ships ones... )

In this hypothesis the writer mentions where he got his theory. Apparently, a member on a HP discussion website stated a theory that Harry was a bi-product of a dark ritual, in which he would have been sacrificed to give Voldy immortality. (I might be paraphrasing.) It also stated that Dumbledore somehow saved Harry and he was adopted by the Potters, making Harry the exact thing as Voldy. This theory was highly imbalanced as it was based on a great ammount of time-turner paradoxes. So, the writer fixed the theory in his own way. Instead of using time-turners and dark rituals and whatnot, he introduced a way it could work out well. Harry was indeed the son of James and Lily Potter and on the night of their deaths, something happened. When the avada kedavra hit Harry and rebounded, (I'll talk about that later.) Voldy's soul was, for lack of better words, split. (I'll talk about Voldy later too.) Why is it that the only thing we hear about from that night is second hand? Why is Harry's only memory the sound of his parents fighting, a green light, and a rushing noise? Why does Voldy only remember pain beyond pain? The hypothesis states that one half of Voldy's soul retained all self consiousness, memories, and powers, given by himself or by nature. That part fled that night and was dubbed "Vapormort." But what of the other half?

A connection between Harry and Voldy had just been made. Voldy's half soul that was left behind (from now on dubbed "Tom soul") had no memories, no sense of self, and only those powers Tom Riddle was born with. Being bound to the physical world, (later) it used the only connection possible to find housing. It went to Harry. Harry, being the infant he was, was able to house both souls, which fused together to make a human/human hybrid. 2 souls in one body. Harry retained all of his own powers and gained those of one Tom Riddle. (Explaining the snake talking, ect) This would explain a lot of things. Why would Harry faint so easily to dementors? Dumbledore and Lupin say it is because of his "bad experiences." But what if it is the Tom soul trying to get out to where it belongs? Voldy should have died all in all that night and gone to the "afterlife" but he didn't. So he's somewhere he doesn't belong. It also explains the dementor's strange behavior when Harry makes his first real patronus. Why would dementors go for a boy who is defenceless and only pleading for them to stop when they have orders from the ministry to go for Sirius? Would they not first do their job and then feed for pleasure? But no. They go for the boy. If he had 2 souls in one body then wouldn't he be irresistable to dementors? It's like you are supposed to eat your tofu but you could eat a chicken pot-pie instead.

This also explains that easter scene in OotP. Ginny has just brought in his easter egg from Mrs. Weasley and Harry gets a lump in his throat. Doesn't that only happen when he's nervous or emotional? What if that would be Tom Riddle's reaction from his life? Sure makes sense to me.

What about GoF? How is Harry able to "out will" Voldy in the graveyard during the reversed spell effect thing? 2 wills against one would work out well.

In conclusion, Harry is a Harry/Tom Riddle (not Voldy) hybrid. The Tom Riddle part retained at least some of the effects of his life (emotionally) and can sometimes take over Harry without meaning to. How many times has Harry given something away by accident and it turned out to be his best option?

I'll be back tomorrow to explain how Harry survived. Just remember, I need feedback! Thoughts? Just don't flame on how it can't work. It'll work later.

The Changeling Theory is very plausible, and I applaud the people who took the time to perfect it.
However, it is very complicated. According to a little thing called Occam's Razor, the simplest explanation for something is usually the best, and the one that turns out to be true. The Changeling Theory explains very well a lot of the little things in HP, but it is complex.
But now I'll contradict myself and say that JKR loves complex plots (like the climax of PoA)....
....anything is possible....

Thank you for putting it so that I can understand (plain ol good simple English). Most of the things I've read about it are so complicated. They really make you want to take an Aspirn after reading it, all of the cinfusion.
Anyways, I'm not sure if the entire part will turn out true and entirly part of the story but it probably has a lot of hidden truth in there (even if it is hidden by some less truthful parts). The only thing that might hold it back is the fact that HP books are based for kids (although people of all ages love 'em) and the Changling Hypothesis is more than enough to make a 10 year old's head spin. Of course if this is true then I'm sure JK has/will have some way to make it so readers aren't reaching for the Aspirn...

Thanks for the feedback. It's really inspiring after getting home winning a math competition. The Changeling Hypothesis actually is very simple once you put it in plain English. A lot of jumping around but quite simple. Now on to the topic of this post: How did Harry survive?

When you read that question, you probably think back to Dumbledore's explination of Lily died for Harry. What is wrong with this assumption? I'm pretty sure that the war was going on for 3-12 years before Lily and James were attacked so what is the probability that not one person died for someone else? Somewhere close to 1 out of a trillion. There had to be something else there. But how can we know that? What do we know of Lily in the first place that makes this more believeable?

When we were in the pensieve with Harry, we saw Lily as the "firebreathing dragon." She had an attitude of "if I don't like you or you PO me, you get your head yelled off at minimum." This was shown by her temper at James. Lily is not the person to run from danger or lose her head in battle. So what's with all that screaming in Godrics Hollow? That sounded like a paniced, losing her head Lily. Not the Lily we're trying to learn about. Yes, she knows she would die and James was already dead but she would have stood up to Voldy till the end. Why scream like you're so scared you could **** your pants?

The answer is she must have somehow invoked ancient magic. James may or may not have known about this but he knew he needed to give Lily time. Lily, knowing that she wouldn't get out alive, (Here comes the speculation) must have created some sort of magical "contract" in which Voldy would take her life instead of Harry's. The consequences of this contract would be what we saw as a result to Voldy. Avada Kedavra was reflected, all because Voldy fell for the trick of the hysterical lady act.

Why did Voldy fall for it? Why didn't he want her to die yet in the first place? He wanted her to suffer. He wanted her to see the dead bodies of her family piled around her. He wanted to taste the devastation he had caused her. I can just see his thought process now. "Stand aside you stupid girl. You're next anyway. Why not run or something like it. I like a nice 'challenge.' How I love this 'job'" I know. Not very villian like but close enough. He has killed countless families and Lily's act looked very close to those families he had killed before. By killing Lily, he signed his name on the dotted line, binding himself in magical contract that he would never kill Harry or face death himself.

So, in summary, the reason Harry survived was because Lily invoked some sort of ancient magical contract stating that Lily would die instead of Harry. Voldy signed on the dotted line by killing her sealing the deal and recieving high consequences for braking the deal.

I'll be back later to try to explain how Voldy survived the avada kedavra next time and if I can think of it, something else. My last explination post will be of how Dumbledore might have seen all of this.

MOD EDIT : Watch the language, please....family site, ya know...

Okay, so this is like saying that because Voldy killed Lily he wasn't supposed to kill Harry but since he tried to Avada Kedrava Harry the curse reflected back on him. If he hadn't of killed Lily 1st then the curse wouldn't have reflected? do I have the main idea now?
Congrats on wining the competition by the way.

Thanks. Yes I believe that is what I am trying to say. This situation had to have happened before so Lily must have tricked Voldy into killing her and binding them in magical contract. Were Voldy to stun/save her for later, Harry probably would have died.

Now I have two reasons why I need feedback. It shows me that you care about this and you'd like me to write about it more and I cant double post. So please, tell me your comments, questions, even theories you get off of this. I'll take just about anything so long as it's not flames. Give me good reasons for anything you write here unless you cannot get to your books. Then just make reference like "didn't that person say/do that?" Remember, no feedback means longer time to next explination.

wow, i am totally not comprehending. i am just slow. ok let me try to read it again.... so are you trying to say that lily was supposed to die after harry or something..?

People seem to be having trouble understanding the "how Harry survived thing". Perhaps I should ... word it differently. Before the attack on the Potter house people must have died for others before in much the same manner as Lily. Therefore, she must have done something different from everybody else making Voldy's curse rebound. The hypothesis states it is like a magical contract. Harry's survival had nothing to do with his own powers. In fact, before the attack Harry was a normal boy born to two, let's say, brilliant parents. So, had Lily not died before Harry, Harry would be dead. Hope that helps some more. Now, on to Voldy!

How did Voldy survive? I read on JKR's website that that is the question we should be asking instead of how Harry survived. We know that the avada kedavra rebounded on him and everybody knows that avada kedavra is the killing curse. Why did it not work? Which "experiments" of Voldy really worked? We don't know although we can guess at what the effects are. Don't go "of course we know he didn't die!" I mean what in the world are these things Voldy did to himself like? We can guess from Hagrid and Dumbledore's "look of triumph" that Voldy isn't quite human anymore. But if he's immortal, why did he lose his body?

That's just it. He's not. He's not mortal though he's not immortal. But to help explain that, we have to... define what happens when people die in the wizarding world and what ghosts are. Maybe throw in dementor kissed people because they aren't properly "dead" either. Voldy himself said he was "less than a spirit" and what better word for ghost than spirit? This is where we tie in the hypothesis to the Department of Mysteries. Why did Sirius die if he just fell through a veil? Yes, we know it's magic but what kind of magic? What if that's where souls go when they "accept" death? That would explain why it's called the "death room." They study death and what happens afterwards there. Sirius didn't die because he fell. He died because his soul went to where it's supposed to go when he does die. Think of it as, being kissed by a dementor and nobody can get to your body. And those kissed? They have no memory, or self awareness (due to the loss of the soul) but they retain body and powers. Must be nice to just sit around all day... then again maybe not.

Now what are ghosts? From what I can gather, ghosts are souls of people who have "imprinted" themselves onto the earth with either unfinished business or an emotion such as fear of death. They themselves have self consiousness and retain their memories but they lose their powers and bodies. Put this together and we have a little equation that adds up to this:

Voldy has bound his soul to the physical world. He spent years of experiments trying to do this while retaining his powers, self awareness, memories, and anything else he gave himself through other experiments. He did nothing for emotions though. Voldy, having his body ripped apart, was nothing more than a shadow with the power to manipulate and possess (can't spell that for the life of me. The thing that happened in the department to Harry when Voldy had just left) though if he had his body, he would have all his powers back. This explains all the "Voldy is a human/non-human/non-mortal hybrid" stuff in the hypothesis. Voldy was born human. He has a soul. He took away at least some of his humanity and mortaliy with his experiments. One minor problem he missed and still misses to this book. He deteriorated.

Emotion-wise I mean. He's not the same Voldy we "know" from others. In the old days, if you called Voldy, "Tom/Tom Marvelo Riddle" you were dead. What happens when Dumbledore and Voldy meet? They have a conversation/debate on death and stuff about not coming here. In fact, Dumbledore called Voldy "Tom" twice and Voldy didn't think anything of it! Voldy hates muggles and his muggle heritage. Why not just shoot the AK right away? Because he is different. He lost some emotions during the "Vapormort" period and now what we see are crude recreations of emotions in the mind. Sure, he's going to be "greater and more terrible than ever." But that doesn't mean that he's going to have less weaknesses. Just means he'll act in a more... brutal and upfront way in the war. Can we call this a weakness? I don't know. I can't think of a way to use it against him though it probably could. Any suggestions? Wow, for once I can't explain everything in here. Hm.

Now that I've spent a good 50 minutes on that I expect at least some feedback. Put some thought into that "how can we use Voldy's lack of emotion against him" thing. Even if it's a little far-fetched. This whole hypothesis is anyway.

Well, he did get into the anti-muggle program because his mother (the witch) was left by his father (the muggle) when his mother told him that she was a witch and his mother died at Voldy's birth leaving him at an orphanage. There, we can guess that he was mistreated, picked on, ect. He was then filled with hate for muggles. He never knew love. Now I don't think he can by himself. His "lack of emotion" is caused by deterioration from being away from his body too long. If you don't shake up the salad dressing, you get a watery mess at the top and a strong who-knows-what at the bottom. Something similiar happened to Voldy when he was "Vapormort" (I'm starting to like that word.) Just drain out the stuff at the bottom. Perhaps Voldy will be destroyed by love. Don't know how though. As in how he gets to feel love. The Harry-Voldy connection possibly?

I'll get back to what Dumbledore sees and thinks about all this (with a bit of speculation) when I get back from school tomorrow or the next day (USA central time) so keep checking in and make sure you get me some more theories on the Voldy emotions thing.

Okay, sorry I haven't posted yet, but I barely have time to eat and sleep these days, let alone post something beyond, 'Oi! Wrong thread!', or '**Sigh** Stop arguing about the ships**'....

Anyway....

Just a couple of things that occured to me after reading your first post, Bandoth....

Overall, very interesting. I like the idea that Voldy has transferred part of himself to Harry, but I'm not so sure about the melded soul part. I think that they have definitely exchanged behavioural characteristics, but I wouldn't go so far as to say they've partially exchanged souls. Excellent reasoning behind the Dementors thing though.....although I guess you could argue that they went for Harry because he was so desperate in that moment...so filled with despair at the prospect of losing Sirius and the prospect of a new life - that he was pretty fertile ground for the Dementors then anyway. As for them attacking Harry on the train, they didn't....not in the book, anyway. Just their appearance affected Harry then, which is not the same as actually being attacked by them.

I also really liked the idea that Lily struck some kind of a bargain with Voldemort that he recinded on and that's why the curse rebounded...DD said it was very ancient magic, after all. Very nice idea. I liked that....I'm going to think on that a bit more....

Thanks Dana. About the Ginny scene with the Easter egg. It's in OotP. Chapter 29 Career Advice on page 654 on the USA Hard Cover. Ginny talks to Harry about how Harry could talk to Sirius. She gives him an easter egg from Mrs. Weasley and he gets a lump in his throat.

Sorry if you misunderstood me on the dementor thing. I was talking about after Lupin transformed and Sirius fainted. True, they could have gone after him because he was desperate but then we'd need to know for sure what dementors "feed" on. Not what they do. Harry and Sirius were defenceless once the patronus mist was gone. So why Harry before Sirius? Way up there folks.

I can see where you're coming from on the Lily going beserk thing too. Yes, parents would do almost anything to save their children but Lily, up to this point, has been known to stand strong in the face of danger. From what we know, she should have died like Harry would for his friends instead of sacrifice like that. She should have fought back and died brave and proud, protecting her son but she goes to hysterics and tries to stop Voldy with "ancient magic." Evidence points that there has to be much more there than just loving sacrifice.

Since I just posted a book report or so, I'll get to Dumbledore later.

Ah, right, thanks for the quote!! 654?? Wow, the American editions must be huge!!! Page 654 in the British verions are way up to 'Out of the Fire' by then!

Anyway.....yeah....Harry's reaction there.....I think you have to look at it in a wider context. Harry was feeling very emotional in that section after having just learned of his father and Sirius' behaviour towards Snape. All his illusions about them had just been shattered, hitting Harry where it hurt the most - his faith in his father. It shook his foundations to their core....and when Ginny brought the egg in, it reminded Harry of family...his lack of one....even the memory and image of them had been destroyed and he was left with nothing. He was desperate to justify their behaviour and couldn't. I think that simple gesture was probably the last little grain of salt that tipped the scales and brought the lump to his throat. I think that was just a demostration of how deeply Harry was affected by witnessing that memory.

As for the Dementors, I thought that they fed on positive emotions and memories, leaving you with the worst experiences of your life. They feed on happiness and the Patronus is an extension of that happiness....a physical manifestation. There probable aren't many emotions that are more positive than the type of hope that Harry would have been feeling at the time Sirius was attacked. Again, Harry was watching all his hopes for the future being destroyed (as opposed to the destruction of his past in OotP) and so he must have felt desperate panic as his hope slipped away. I think that's what attracted the Dementors to him - they could sense his despair as his hopes ebbed away......the phrase kids in a candy store springs to mind...

And about Lily standing strong...that's exactly what she did. She could have apparated away, she could have flown out the window on a broomstick, she could have used the floo network to escape during those brief moments that James must have bought for her, but she didn't. She stood there and fought, which was exceptionally brave. If, perhaps, as the inevitability of her fate loomed over her in those last, desperate moments, she let her facade slip and allowed a scream to escape her, then I still think that's still pretty understandable under the circumstances.

However, I do agree with you that Lily must have done something more than just sacrifice herself to protect Harry. I've said the same thing myself - how can we seriously be expected to believe that during all that time that LV was killing people, that not one person sacrificed themselves to save another? There's definitely something deeper there.

I also agree that it is very possible that the reason LV didn't die - which is, after all, the thing that JKR has suggested we focus on - is because of this tie that he has to Harry. There does seem to be something deeper going on....something that's almost like 'fated'....

And I think that DD has known all along the way this thing is going to eventually turn out.

Thanks Dana. Well done yourself! I would have never thought of all of that like you did being a male. (And I'm proud of it.) Yes, the USA book is giant. 870 pages in all not counting the dedication and all that. Gotta make sure to somehow thank JKR for making book 6 smaller. Still hold to my dementor thing though. If Harry was so full of hope and good emotions, why wasn't his patronus able to form itself fully? Yes, It is about 100 dementors right next to him but he beat them back without thinking across the lake during the time turner adventure. If dementors feed on good then why would they run from patronuses? If patronuses are really "physical manifestations" of happiness wouldn't a dementor be all too pleased to stay around one and feed off of it? Endless happyness in one object. No. I believe dementors feed off of evil. That just might explain why the dementors are Voldy's natural allies. Harry was desperate when the dementors surrounded him. His thought process is almost hysterical. He has had very bad experiences in his life. And if this hypothesis proves correct, he has two souls bound into one. Now that's what I call a delacacy. (I hate spelling) Tastier food than mean, old, innocent Mr. Black now isn't it? Back to the topic at hand now! Where is Dumbledore in this whole hypothesis?

Here, there will be a great ammount of speculation. It is based on Dumbledore's ability to know what is going on in his school and with Harry. I believe, that it was taken from Voldy's comment about Dumbledore watching Harry closer than he knew. I'm going to start from the beginning and go through 2nd year and maybe jump around a bit afterwards.

Dumbledore knows a lot of things. He has great knowledge of just about everything. So far, there's only one thing that Dumbledore isn't quite possitive on, and that's the nature of Harry's connection to Voldy. Dumbledore doesn't know what happened on Halloween. All he knows, is that James and Lily Potter died and Harry survived from that somehow. Using his knowledge of magic and the process of deduction, he came out with Harry's mother died for him. He knows nothing more than that. There also is the possibility (though slim) that Harry was examined in the Department of Mysteries also. We can guess that Dumbledore suspects there is more to Harry's scar but he can't be sure. Dumbledore sent Harry to the Dursleys and watched him grow. We might be able to say that McGonagall was with him, helping in all that was needed. Dumbledore knew how Harry grew up and allowed it. But why? Why leave Harry to torture when Voldy is gone and all the death eaters are scattered and masterless?

Dumbledore knew the prophecy. No matter how much we see Dumbledore care for Harry we know that Harry is a tool for destroying Voldy. Now that we've questioned that, let's go even farther. Why not leave Harry with Sirius? Yes, Dumbledore "knew" that Sirius betrayed the Potters but why would he believe Sirius so easily when he was captured? Sure, Dumbledore is a legilimens. But really, can you believe that someone became an animagus, under your very nose, snuck out of school monthly, and switched secret keepers at the very last second without you knowing anything about it, just like that? I don't believe anyone could believe that without veritaserum. You know what I think? Dumbledore sent Sirius to Azkaban on purpose. (I know. A little extreme but it works.)

Why? Why condemn a man like that? So Harry can live in torture and be "safe." Voldy was coming back and Dumbledore knew it. If Dumbledore is so "all-knowing" as he always seems to be, he would have noticed 3 students turning into animals and visiting a werewolf monthly. He would have known Sirius was innocent. Wasn't it Dumbledore himself that cast the spell? Harry was condemned to 10 years of torture, but he was "safe." Dumbledore even said that without the words "torture" and "condemn." (paraphrasing though) Dumbledore does a lot of things but when it involves peoples lives, he always works for the greater good. Reminds me of Harry only with a bit more wisdom. Making rash decisions that seem quite wise at the time.

So, Harry comes to Hogwarts, slightly tortured, but with no serious damage done. Dumbledore, not knowing too much about the Voldy-Harry connection, decides to test Harry. He teaches Harry how to use the mirror of erised, giving Voldy a clear shot at getting the Stone. Dumbledore, already knowing who is working for Voldy, (he trusts Snape and all the rest of the faculty!) sees if Voldy will use the connection to steal the Stone with Harry. He didn't. Harry fought off Voldy nicely (for an 11 year old.) and saved the Stone with Dumbledore watching closely and interfering at the last second. He now trusted Harry quite a bit.

Now we skip to second year. Dumbledore trusts Harry greatly and is almost possitive that Voldy can't use the connection to do anything with or through Harry. Then came another fateful Halloween. Attack! Potter has been found at the scene of the crime, has a connection to Voldy, and is hiding something. (Hearing the basilisk but Dumbledore didn't know that much.) Was he wrong? Could Voldy be using Harry as a tool to control the basilisk? (He must have known it was a basilisk! I am told that there are only a few stone-turning monsters in the world and knowing Voldy is parselmouth, he knows it is a basilisk.) Or did Harry just hear it and end up in the wrong place at the wrong time? Is Harry a parselmouth himself?

Here, we guess that Dumbledore staged a conversation with Snape. He let Snape know enough for him to know that Dumbledore wanted to know if Harry could talk to snakes. Knowing this task is up to him and him alone, Snape proves it in the most public and reputation killing way possible. Although Dumbledore got what he wanted, he was not pleased. He follows Harry for as long as he can and when Harry fights Riddle, Dumbledore is left without doubt that Harry's intentions are always for good.

What do we get from this? Dumbledore knows a lot more than we thought he knew and a little less than we thought too. That is why we can't trust him when he told Harry how he survived the AK. I'll be getting to the connection with Harry and Voldy next time. It will be a bit interesting but this is my biggest novel yet!

oh no I don't like this... It's always been pretty much the golden rule of HP, always trust Dumbledore, fountain of wisdom (although he can make mistakes, his knowledge is always correct) hmmm, I'll have to think about this one...

This is still interesting to read about though, but some of it makes me question how valid it really seems.

Oh! If only we human beings had a way of making sure of everything at once! Ok, you win on the dementor part. Also, thank you for correcting me on the "greater good" part. I should have wrote "tries." Yes, what is living without one's loved ones? But if all the rest of the world were to die and your loved ones to live, what kind of life would that be? Should you have two buttons, one where your loved ones die and the rest of the world lives, and the other vice versa, which would you push? The rest of the world clearly outnumbers your loved ones but do you care so much that you would sacrifice everything else for them? That, is what I was trying to get at with the "greater good" part.

Now, this time, it isn't an explination. Just a bit of... discussion and speculation. Dumbledore's only time he is really uncertain is when he fears Voldy will use the connection against Harry. What if he was wrong on the night Mr. Weasley was bitten by the snake? What if Voldy didn't "feel" him that night? What if it was much earlier?

How is Harry portrayed in OotP? He is the moody, angry, guy especially when he is left in the dark... Isn't that a bit familiar? Aren't those emotions the ones we often see in our "favorite" dark lord? What if Voldy found out about the connection when Harry exploded at his friends at Grimmauld Place? We haven't seen such anger in Harry ever. He has pent up so much anger that it was close to being proportional to the anger and hate Voldy probably uses for an AK. What if it was before even that. What if Voldy found out about Harry's connection on the night the "caretaker" of the Riddle house was killed? Unless I'm mistaken, that is the last time we see a vision in third person view. Or maybe during priori incantatem? What does this mean for young Harry? Voldy has been opening his emotions to Harry all year long. Perhaps, even spying on Harry. He might have even been planning to use Harry as a backup plan to get the prophecy since the beginning of summer in OotP. How can we tell? Harry's dreams about the doors in the Department of Mysteries has already become a regular dream by the time he gets to Grimmauld Place. Sure, he hasn't gotten all the way through but maybe Voldy is letting him in little by little. What's some more evidence suggesting all this? When has Harry ever been shown as mad? The only time before OotP I can think of off the bat is Aunt Marge. Now all of the sudden, Harry is moody, yelling at people on and off. That's what you look for in a dark lord. Perhaps Voldy has been trying to get Harry to get rid of his own friends. Power comes in numbers. Lower the numbers, the greater chance of success. Though Snape is working for the Order, the other reason why he couldn't really teach Harry occlumency would be that Voldy planted him to weaken Harry's mind. Snape, being in a tight spot, chose to do as Voldy said and taught Harry nothing and putting it all on his feud with James Potter. That way, he stayed a spy. For all we know, Harry could have been a spy unwillingly in OotP.

hmm, I think I disagree with this part.

I think the Snape is loyal to Dumbledore- I know, it may sound crazy but its true, Dumbledore save Snape from Askaban (GoF, The Pensive, I think...), and he isn't about to forget that anytime soon (I have my own little theory about this, but that's something else)

As for Harry being angry the only thing I can say is, yes it is possible the way your sayin' it but you have to remember that Harry has been through a lot:
+ Both parents died before he barely knew them: I know from personal experiance how hard it is to deal with the loss of one parent, I can't even begin to imagine Harry's grief and feelings on this...
+ Brought to live with the Dursleys for the first years of his life: There he was pretty much abused (emotionally), mistreated (a cupboard for crying out loud!), teased (one word-- Dudley), and so much more only because of who he is, that is more than enough for one person alone.
+ Barely ever sees his parents true friends: exactly how often did he have any true quality time with Lupin or Sirius?
+ No one is telling him anything: He hasn't had any decent human contact in quite a while, Ron and Hermione can't tell him anything, Dumbledore is hiding from him..
+ The hearing: after saving his life and Dudley's during horrible circumstances then this, plus the Ministrey's loony harry jokes...

Later at school he has to deal with:
+ Umbridge
+ No Quidditch
+ Stress

I'm not saving that this part of the theory won't work I'm just saying that there are other explanations for his anger...

No. No. I'm saying that Snape is good! He's just acting like the good ol' Slytherin he is and saving his own hide by "weakening" Harry's mind for Voldy. As for Harry being angry, when did all this anger start? There is a, what? 1-15 day time period when we have no clue what happened to Harry. All that anger in two weeks?!? During the school year it is understandable but still, when did he get this moody? Somewhere between GoF and OotP which id definately a small time period indeed.

alright, I get what you're saying but I still had to put my little part in, you know...

Also, I'd like to add that he was never moody when he had to face other stuff that was going on at school. When the whole school turns on him in book 2 does he explode at anyone? No. He only had about 3-5 people who would even consider Harry a friend. Now we add one person dieing in front of him and a dark lord rising and we've got 20 times the anger as before. That doesn't look like normal teenage mood swings to me.

That's because his anger in OotP is not really anger - it's unexplored grief, loss and misunderstanding. He's had no one to talk to, no one to vent to, no one to help him deal with and talk about the things he must have been feeling after not only witnessing Cedric's death, but also experiencing torture. That's pretty strong stuff. Yes, the whole school hated him in CoS, but he still had Hermione and Ron on side.

Even his support mechanisms were taken away at the beginning of OotP, so his feelings came out in perfectly understandable and reasonable way - in anger.

A lot of people manifest anger when there really is something else going on beneath the surface - grief, physical pain, illness, frustration, worry, anxiety - all these things can make you short tempered and over react to things that normally wouldn't bother you.

It's the clinical definition of stress. Hyper-sensitivity manifesting as anger. And, of course, an awful lot of teen angst and hormones thrown into the mixture for good measure.

When Ron abandoned him in GoF did he ever yell? Did he ever really talk about it? He did a little venting but were it year five he would have exploded within a week. He was critisized and lost one of his best friends at the same time. During normal times in GoF after Ron comes back to himself, Harry shows no signs of this "unexplored grief, loss, and misunderstanding." He is as normal as possible, even on the inside. (Although you could combat that with his Dursley treatment giving him little knowledge of his own emotions.) He even seems semi-normal a few weeks after his ordeal in the graveyard. Then he is sent to the Dursleys for a couple of weeks and he has an overload of emotions he lets out as anger. I'd say that has something to do with Voldy. Voldy has just gotten his body back. Wouldn't his "soul" have to do something like "adapt" to the new environment? Could that "adapting" be testing out useable emotions? If said emotions were sent through the connection, Harry would experience what he did experience: a big rush of anger.

No, I don't think so. Harry didn't explode with Ron because Cedric wasn't dead then. He hadn't seen anything then - he hadn't seen someone murdered in front of him, he hadn't been tortured, he hadn't been in real fear for his life. What that poor kid must have felt in that situation is beyond anyone's ability to really understand...even JKR's herself....god forbid anyone should find themselves in a situation where, as a fifteen year old, they are facing the prospect of restraint, torture and execution.

Yes, he does seem semi-normal in the days following the graveyard thing, but I would certainly put that down to shock. It takes time for things to sink in. That may sound cliched, but its very true. Anyone who has lost someone very close to them will tell you that the loss isn't truly felt for at least a few weeks...sometimes even a few months after the death. It's the day-to-day absence of a person that causes the most grief. When all the immediate fuss has died down and you're left alone to deal with what's happened.

I wouldn't even say it was grief for Cedric really....I guess it was more shock than anything else. He hadn't come face-to-face with his parents like that before either, which was bound to have an effect on him.

I think you really have to understand the mechanisms and psychology of the grieving process to understand how someone can manifest anger in the way that Harry did. I'm sorry, I can see where you're coming from, Bandoth, really I can, but I honestly don't see anything strange about the way Harry reacted under the circumstances.

In my views, I see that no matter how normal Harry acts, feels, or seems, he is always different. It's the fact that the emotional rollarcoaster is normal that it shows outside work is at hand. From what I've seen of the wizarding world through Harry's eyes, he is a one of a kind. He should react differently than what others expect. What is expected after Harry finally feels the gravity of all his emotions? Anger. Everyone says he has every right to be angry when he exploded at Grimmauld Place. What is wrong with that? It was normal. From the start of OotP, this anger is implanted straight into his personality. It has become a part of him in a time period of 1 to 6 weeks. I don't think that one experience of death and horror would do that much right away. A thing that I find strange is that all this happens right after the re-rise of Voldy. Would the death of a friend/aquaintence make you mad with everybody you care about after a while? He didn't even know Cedric before the tournament except as a quiddich player. He can't notice Cedric is gone if he never noticed he was there before, can he? But he has every right to be angry. He should be angry. But with who? This also comes right back to the "what is expected" thing. Given that he isn't and never has been what people have expected, can't we expect him to not get that angry at his friends? All of his anger is focused on not knowing when he explodes. Who is the one responsible for him not knowing though? If we can expect Harry to get angry, we would expect him to get angry at the one who put and kept him in the dark for years or the one who ruined his life. He knows that his friends couldn't tell him anything. Why be angry with them when there's no reason to be? Could Voldy be feeding anger to Harry? He usually needs at least some reason for anything he does. What reason for exploding at his friends? Not much I'm afraid, and not much wouldn't cause that big of an explosion. What I'm trying to say here is Voldy may be redirecting Harry's anger at his friends so that he won't come to them for help or they will fall out of friendship. Nobody might notice this because it is normal. But I notice it because it is normal.

heh heh heh.... All right, mate, I think we're just going to have to agree to disagree on this point because otherwise we'll be debating this forever!!! I can't really say anymore than I already have done in explanation for Harry's moods....I think they're understandable....I really do....and I just don't see his venting as evidence that Voldy has influenced him in that kind of way.

But anyway, perhaps we should move onto the next part of the theory.....for the sake of peace....

*gets herself ready for a nice big rant on harry's feelings*
oh forget it, this can go on forever. I'm too stubborn to change my mind and I really don't see any edvidece for this but lets just move on to the next part of the theory.

Actually, I think that's just about the whole hypothesis. Right now, since I can't find anything else to explain, I'm going to do a little debating and speculating I couldn't do before. The first part is about how to get rid of Voldy.

The hypothesis describes Voldy in a strange way. It says that he is a memory incased in a body made and held together by magic. If we wanted to get rid of Voldy, wouldn't that be like getting rid of a memory? Can't you just pull a Lockhart and obliviate him, then get rid of the "body?" But if that is true, why is Harry the only one who could or would be able to do it? Because of the connection! Voldy wouldn't be able to be obliviated. He knows too much magic and has too many protections for something so trivial. Harry might be able to get through that. We can guess that the connection goes 2 ways.

The second part I want to debate is about Harry having two souls in one. I left that part with the Easter egg alone but it came back to haunt me as I looked through the hypothesis again. Dana said that he choked up because he was reminded of the family he didn't have. Why didn't that happen before? He gets Easter eggs from Molly every year. In GoF I remember Hermione being sad because she got an egg that was smaller than a chicken egg. Those eggs were for Harry too. Shouldn't he have choked up earlier? He didn't even know why he choked up. It appeared "to his horror!" He "didn't understand why and Eater egg should have made him feel like this!" There has to be something else there!

Thirdly, as I was thinking about what I hadn't explained earlier, I thought about what we agreed on about Dumbledore. Nothing shocks him and he is uncertain about nothing except Harry's connection to Voldy. If Sirius' story was new to him, shouldn't he have been shocked that 3 animagi ran around school freely with a werewolf, without ever being caught or even found out by himself, and switched secret keepers right in front of him? Sure, you could use polyjuice or something but Dumbledore is the most powerful or second most powerful wizard in the world. He misses almost nothing. How could he miss an extreme change in character as "Sirius" was made the Potter's secret keeper? Dumbledore had to know at least something of Sirius' innocence and yet he himself provides evidence that Sirius was the Potter's secret keeper. Not looking so innocent now, are you Dumbledore?

Finally, I know you probably won't agree with this Dana, but I have to write about it. The only thing Dumbledore is unsure of is Harry's Voldy connection. In book 5 he has distanced himself from Harry so all information he gets about Harry has to be second hand. Needless to say, something could have been left out or missed. The first time that I remember Dumbledore actually speaking directly to Harry and Harry alone is when Harry dreams of the snake and Mr. Weasley. He has limited knowledge of Harry's outbursts. He just knows Harry is having them. Harry doesn't know that he is starting to feel Voldy's emotions until well into the school year. We have no knowledge of when Voldy actually started using the connection on purpose but we know that Harry has been having strange bouts of anger at Privet drive, he explodes at his friends, and his dream of the Department of Mysteries, though not quite complete, is a reacurring dream by the time of his hearing. 3 things that could be put down to hormones and whatever psychological stuff Dana put down above this post but still, we haven't seen Harry get this angry unless it is in a time of great need, ie. when they decided to go after the SS. He has never really exploded at his friends except in times such as those. Another thing, when Harry exploded, why didn't any accidental magic occur? The closest thing I can think of to that outburst was with Aunt Marge. Harry was seething at that time. At this time Harry is beyond seething. Exploding seems a lot bigger than seething. Why no magic? Could age do something about that? But didn't Dumbledore say at Harry's hearing that "even the best wzards cannot always control their emotions?" Doesn't that mean that if even he got angry enough, accidental magic will occur?

Now I'd like to say that I'm not getting much feedback now am I? So far only two or three people (Including Dana) have answered on this thread. I have seen that I have over 200 views. I would like other people's views on this also.

Hmm. Seems like the auto bump up thing on the website didn't work. Just bringing it back to life so I can do some more debating.

I hope Dana looks at this, since it is her point from a while back that I am responding too. Anyway, the reason Dumbledore let Sirius be locked up is one of two scenarios. 1st, Dumbledore really didn't know what happened that night. Last he knew, Sirius was to be the secret keeper, Voldemort found out, so Sirius betrayed the Potters, end of story. The 2nd theory(and i like this one much more, it's consistent with the "all knowing Dumbledore" idea) is that Dumbledore was protecting Sirius from himself. Two of Sirius' three best friends(the other being Lupin) have been murdered. After he got through with Pettigrew, where do you suppose he would've gone next? Sirius isn't exactly a logical person, often getting carried away by his emotions. I'd expect nothing less of a direct assault on Voldemort and his death eaters, leading to Sirius' death. So naturally, Dumbledore would want Sirius to be alive, to survive. Thus, I feel Dumbledore let Sirius go to Azkaban to protect him from himself, from doing anything rash an unreasonable.

Oh no, sorry....who does Dumbledore think he is to make such a decision that would so destroy someone's life? You can't lock people up to save them from themselves...that would make Dumbledore into the most horrific sort of monster. If he truly believed that he had betrayed the Potters, then yes, of course he would have let him go to Azkaban. But to send him there to keep him alive for the final battle...oh no, I just can't see DD being capable of that kind of cruelty. He could have reasoned with Sirius, if the truth had come our about Pettigrew before...Sirius was young and impulsive then, but I'm sure he could have been talked around to prevent him from going after Voldermort. And anyway, there would have been no one for him to go after, seeing as how Voldemort was already 'dead' by then and his followers disbanded and arrested.

If I'm wrong and it turned out that DD did do that, then I really hope Voldemort kills him because it would be exactly what he deserved for inflicting such unbearable, inhuman, intolerable cruelty on a good, decent and honest man who had never done anything to deserve it.

Now that we have something close to a similiar view on Dumbledore, let's go on to a related topic. Is Dumbledore really that helpful? We know him as the most powerful (or second because of Voldy) wizard alive. He is somewhere in between the age of 145-160 and he has a "pet" pheonix. But has he really ever helped Harry? We go back on the major events in the ends of the books and see that Dumbledore has only been there for one of them and only helped by distracting MacNair in book 3. What else has he done? ... I can't really think of anything else he did to help Harry. I'm also going to go back to the "did Dumbledore know what was happening in all the places Harry was in trouble" question. The thing that just struck me as odd was Dumbledore's answer to why he wasn't there during the SS fight.

This is really going to shock you now, so hold on to your pants......

I agree with you.



I know, I know....incredible, huh? Just don't go havin' a heart attack on me now....

It's one of the things about DD that has made me never really empathise with his character. I felt so angry at his supreme arrogance in OotP for thinking that he always knows best...like Harry, I wanted to pick something up and throw it at him at the end...the way I saw it, DD should have seen what was going to happen and should have stopped it, but no...he was too busy shooting his way off into the sunset like Jesse flippin' James.....

I don't see where DD's ever been much help to Harry either. I, too, found the long travelling time to London to be a bit incredible. Kind of makes you wonder what exactly he was doing....

But, as I've said before, DD has no rights to be playing puppeteer, pulling Harry's strings and manipulating his life like that. Harry's life is his own and the path he chooses to get to his fate - whatever that is - should be his own too. If fate truly does work, then DD should know that there is nothing he can do to prevent it and que sera, sera...

I mean, what purpose did Lily and James' deaths serve? Why was Harry even born? Was he born solely to be molded into the weapon that would finally see off Voldemort forever at the expense of his own life? How can you explain something like that to a child? It would be too much for most adults to deal with.

I think that yes, it is entirely possible that DD has been manipulating Harry's fate and if that manipulation did extend to allowing James and Lily's death, allowing Harry's abusive upbringing, and then, to cap it all off, imprisoning Sirius too, (not that I'm conceeding that it did....I'm just playing Devil's Advocate here...) then I really do hope that arrogant, egotistical old fool gets what's coming to him......

And the best person to give it to him would be Harry.

(Go, Bandoth!!! You get him!!! Get him good!! Little inspiration for your fanfic there..... )

Due to a thread going off the wall with popularity, (well that's what it seems like to me) and with the topic diving into this subject, I'm resurrecting this thread to help others understand the strange yet plausible theories in this complex hypothesis.

Good thread, I just read all three pages, and it's going to take a while to process all this info (especially as my daughter did an unexpected pirouette and landed me a good elbow to the nose. makes it really hard to concentrate right now).

Dana and Bandoth, your characterization of Dumbledore makes me chuckle. I see OotP as sort of a Tale of Three Dictators--Fudge, Umbridge, and Dumbledore-- although Dumbledore is the Benevolent Dictator and I don't ascribe as many evil deeds to him as you do, I still wanted to throw a few things at him in that office too! But this is a bit off topic, so...

Something about the earlier discussion about dementors got me thinking about the connection between Harry and Voldemort. When the dementors suck out someone's soul, they leave behind the physical body with its powers, right? But no thoughts or feelings. Then Dana said something like it seemed that what Voldemort put into Harry was more like his essense rather than his soul(excuse me for being vague, but I think this was all back on page 1 of this thread). This seems to be true, because before Voldemort's resurection Harry did not have his thoughts and feelings intruded upon--those things you might associate with a soul. But Harry did manefest some of Voldemort's powers, most notably Parseltongue.

So, when Voldemort's AK backfired, did Voldemort try to transfer something of his body into Harry, in an attempt to create another physical anchor for his soul? I feel sure it was something that Voldemort set up ahead of time, but he wasn't exactly sure how it would work.

Ooh, that's a good way of putting it!!! I like that....maybe that's exactly what all those potions and draughts and things he took were supposed to do...in the event of something like that happening, some trace of Voldemort projects itself onto the caster and thus provides an 'anchor', as you said.....that seems very plausible, and JKR has told us to concentrate on how Voldemort managed to survive the curse...

That's a very good one.....**hands Mrs Brisbee a Firewhisky**....that sound help a little with the pain too.... I've been nutted in the nose by my nephew, so I know how it feels....you have my sympathies....kids can be violent little things sometimes.....

Huzzah! More have joined! Yes, I also like that theory of Harry being an anchor for Voldy's soul. But we must remember, this is not only his soul that is kept, but also his self consciousness, powers, and his darkly created, near immortal powers. We cannot completely assume that Harry is the only anchor that Voldy used but he may be part of it. Perhaps we should also start brainstorming the essence of the AK and its powers here also, because instead of just dieing, Voldy's body was destroyed, and his soul remained. Hmm. That brings up a lot of stuff.

How many ghosts do we know? All we know of are the ones that are at Hogwarts. How did each ghost die? It seems that they didn't die by magic. Do we know if people can become ghosts if they are killed by the AK? What if the AK was designed to destroy the soul? Now, we may get into the dementor kiss thing again because of physical damage that can be done by the AK but when the AK is done properly, how do muggles describe the victim? I remember the Riddles being "perfectly healthy" and seemed to have died by being "scared to death." This was a for sure full powered AK that was bouncing back at Voldy. Maybe he used his body as a substitute for his soul. Maybe that's why he survived and his body was destroyed.

Mmm...the AK curse.....well, if you want to dissect it, I guess you have to start with the basics - what exactly does it do? It kills people. How do people usually die? Many different ways which essentially always come down to the same thing - the heart stops, brain activity ceases, no breathing. AK kills people without leaving a mark, which means that it must instantaneously cause the heart, lungs and brain to stop. How exactly it does that...well, we're talking fiction here so I guess it's pretty much down to individual interpretation. But I'm somewhat of a scientist and I hate loose ends, so we'll say, for arguments sake, that the AK curse disrupts all the electrical signals in the body by 'shorting' them, instantly stopping the autonomic functioning of the body - i.e. brain, heart, breathing. That would also kind of explain the nose bleed that Moody reckons you can get with a rubbish AK....I won't go into the details because its very gory and involves explanations of electrocution, but trust me, it can cause nose bleeds...

None of that, however, indicates that the AK has the ability to separate body from soul - other than killing the body of course, but there's nothing special in that. A knife or a gun would do the same thing. Anything that kills the body separates body from soul, but I don't want to start a debate about spirituality and what the soul is, so just take it as read for now that body and soul are separated.

Does AK produce ghosts? I dunno.....it certainly did at the graveyard - the ghosts of Lily and James appeared and actually interacted with Harry, meaning that they were not simply 'recordings' - they were actual presences. However, they've never been seen in the way that Nearly headless Nick has been. Nick explained that only wizards/witches who choose to stay behind as ghosts may be seen, but few choose that path...he never mentioned anything about AK being different to anything else.

I guess what all this boils down to is this - that AK, as far as body/soul separations are concerned, is nothing particularly special in and of itself.

Which leads to only one possible conclusion - that there must have been something special about Harry AND Voldemort that resulted in the curse seemingly having the effect it did.

Has anyone seen that X-Files episode where two people are shot, they're both seriously ill and die on the operating table but after a while, the doctors manage to bring them back but because they both died at the same time, the souls somehow got 'mixed' and the soul of the cop went into the criminal and the soul of the criminal went into the cop. Both people retained the 'essences' of their characters, but both had also taken on a part of the other that 'came out' under certain circumstances.

Well, maybe that's kind of what happened that night - the curse killed Harry and rebounded on Voldemort because of the protection Lily left him with, killing him too.....but neither of them were completely dead. Because of the potions that Voldemort had been taking, he couldn't die completely, but part of his 'soul' needed a body in which to reside as an 'anchor' (as Mrs Brisbee suggested), so it entered Harry through the scar (created by Voldemort 'breaking in' rather than something 'breaking out'. Essentially, what you'd be left with is a similar situation to that X-Files episode.

Wow, that was a long post......just had all these trains of thought going off in various directions then...haven't thought this much for ages!! Did anyone follow that?

Hmm. Well, I know I can't say anything about electrocution seeing as I have no idea of how it works except that it means a great number of volts pass through the body. But as for the ghosts coming out of Voldy's wand, they are more like shadows of the people, aren't they? They are able to manipulate the physical world somewhat because they delayed Voldy from doing anything to Harry, allowing him to escape. The thing that strikes me most there, is that they cannot keep themselves there for long after the connection is broken. They don't seem to represent ghosts when they appear in that way. This has me thinking. I don't think that we can make any assumptions on just how the AK works seeing as it is all speculation, but based on that experience in the graveyard, I might go so far as to guess that the AK captures souls. The reversed spell effect seems to free these shadows of the people that the AK killed, so the reverse of freeing would be capturing wouldn't it?

Ooh, yet another great theory there, Mrs Brisbee!!! **hands over another Firewhisky** Hey, we're gonna be soused here soon!!

That made a lot of sense...and would explain where Voldemort's body went. And, of course, why that would no longer work - that's probably why Voldemort was so insistant that it had to be Harry's blood that was needed for the ritual, despite Pettigrew's best efforts at trying to convince him otherwise. Very good theory!! I can buy that, definitely...and it fits in with other aspects of the Changeling Hypothesis too, as well as explaining Harry's scar....Excellent stuff!!

Bandoth...mmm...I can see your point, but I was under the impression that Priori Incantatum spat back all spells that had been performed, not just AK's. Of course, one would wonder how it spit out a cruciatus curse, but nevertheless, the silver hand that he created for Pettigrew appeared too, didn't it? And that couldn't have been a ghost or shadow or soul or whatever. I don't think AK captures souls in the way that the Dementors Kiss does...I think it just steals 'life force', that essential 'electrical spark' that makes the body work....

**hic** Thanks for the firewhiskey, but perhaps we should lay off because I don't think I can reach my keyboard from the floor

The behavior of the Priori Incantatum shades is certainly interesting. If it is just supposed to be an echo of the AK, how does the wand know what the personalities of the victim's are like? There does seem to be some imprint in the wand, something taken back in. I had been thinking that the AK just separates the soul and lifeforce from the body, and the souls depart for the hereafter, but Bandoth's arguments are making me reconsider.

Figuring out the AK might help with figuring out what exactly happened that night at Godric's Hollow, although I don't think is was the AK, but rather Voldy's and Lilly's protections, that caused the scar and connection.

Yeah. I'm starting to change my guess once again. The AK seems to capture something of the person, seeing as the personalities of each person are preserved but maybe not quite the soul. I believe that both the protections and the AK are important here. If Voldy had used any other spell then the effects wouldn't be so unique. It is the killing curse and Harry lived. Yes, it is only because of his mother's protection but what other curse could form such a unique connection (hey that rhymes!) with Voldy?

Whoah...I've read two and a half pages of this thread and have only five more posts to go, but I don't think I can handle any more confusion than I've already got. My thirteen year old so-called "brilliantly gifted" head is working its butt (makes no sense but yeah...) off just to grasp this theory.....

It's pretty cool though . I'm just replying since I see Bandoth made the last post and I'd actually like to hear more....vacation makes you stupider (one of my ingenious theories ) and this is just what I needed to wake up from the sleep I've been falling into...

Hope you update soon!!

Oh great, reading this is making me spin off all sorts of theories..luckily, they make me understand the HP world a bit better in a weird sense...

If you say this is just "explaining" the Changeling Hypothesis "in English" I am definitely not going to read that hypothesis..how long is it anyway?

(And I can't resist saying this: I'm proud to say I understood all of the acronyms! LV, AK, DD- they all made sense!! Yeyea! )

I'll put it this way. If you don't think you can handle all the debating and explaining going on here, don't even try to take a crack at the real thing. I'm guessing that it would fill up several pages on Microsoft Word at 10 point print and no double spacing. It dives into a great deal of things but produces awesome results. Try taking this section by section. The first two, maybe three pages in this thread explain the hypothesis itself. Each time you finish a "topic" the hypothesis covers, slow down, and think about what you read. Maybe even sleep on it before tackling the next topic. It took me over an hour to get the gist of the whole thing going paragraph by paragraph.

Let me change the subject for a moment. I'm wondering how possession works exactly. I think whatever protection against death Voldy set up for himself worked similarly to possession.

This is something Voldemort is very good at. In CoS his diary containing a memory of his 16 year old self turns up, and is able to possess Ginny.

Voldemort states in GoF that possession is one of the few powers that was left him after Godric Hollow, and he was able to possess snakes, and later take possession of Quirrell's body.

In OotP Voldy possesses Nagini so he can scout in the MoM, and later he possesses Harry during his duel with Dumbledore.

I'm wondering if when possession takes place, the possessor leaves their body behind to inhabit the victim's? Voldemort disappears right before he possesses Harry. Where did he go? To stash his body in a safe place, or did his body meld with Harry's?

I would think that possesion works in a similiar way to Harry's visions. Voldy probably loses consciousness because his consciousness is somewhere else... unless possesion is like a radio where whatever Voldy says, Harry says, sending mental commands to the body. Either way, Voldy's concentration is somewhere else, so he is slightly vulnerable.

Alright...I'm going to read those last five posts now....time for me to turn off the punk-rock music and concentrate .....then this'll probably be my last post for the night *yawn* lol...

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Okay. Alright. Whew. Done! I must say this theory is one of the most complex I've heard (shows what kind of theories I've been reading ) so far but it's making sense...like you said, Bandoth, I have to wait and let the stuff sink in instead of letting my curiousity get the better of me and plowing on unconditionally

Whoa Mrs.Brisbee! Your theories are great! Seeing as I'm underage, I can't give you a Firewhisky, but here's something else lol **chocolate frog**

Thanks Bandoth...I'm so bored I might even try....heh.....dundundun whoa, thoughts too big to be thinking at 10 PM......