Just like The Matrix, do you believe that the Series has something to do with the Bible or religious meanings?
If there is, we could predict what would happen...
This is only my theory but....
If Harry is Jesus, then someone would betray him leaving him to die? Possibly Ron? There are people who don't believe in Jesus (Harry in order of pheonix) and pity him and Jesus has his enemies such as the Roman empire (the slytherins especially the Malfoy family). The romans have power but will soon lose it at the end of the story.
If dumbledore is God, who is all powerful and all good then Voldemort must be the Devil who once worked for God (Dumbledore) as an angel but a war in the heavens happened (the first war of the wizards) and the devil (Voldemort) decided to fight against God (Dumbledore) but at the same time fears him. Judgement day is going to happen any moment (the second war of the wizards).

What do you think?

Probally, I know it may be wierd but what if Mudunges betrayed them or snape.Just a thought

I don't think that Harry represents Christ. I do think the series is full of religious symbolism. But I think it is in broader themes of Good Vs Evil. It is possible that Harry and some of the other characters have qualities that might be similar to Jesus, God, etc., but I am not convinced the theme is specifically Christian. I don't think it is anti-Christian either.

One thing that I find interesting about the books is there are references to Christian Holidays (Primarily Christmas and Easter), but no real reference to religion or the religious beliefs of the characters.


Many fundamentalist Christians have of course condemned HP for being a part of the occult. This is amazing to me, since when I read the books I see them so clearly as an allegory for Good vs Evil and the continuing struggle to stay focused in the fight against evil. We see Harry and his friends forgiving one another, and even Harry showing some signs of Mercy when he elects not to let Pettigrew be killed. (He also was motivated to get justice for Sirius), I would imagine a theologian would have quite a lot to say about the religious symbolism.

What I think is interesting as the series develops are the themes of racism and intolerance. It is also interesting to note DD's defeat of an Evil Wizard whose lifetime paralells an extremely evil man, Adolph Hitler. I doubt this is coincidence I would imagine the JKR may tie some of this up at some point.

which bible are you talking about anyway? if its the catholic one than i dont think so if its any other one i still dont think so. lol just doesnt make sense to me.

I think HP has to do with the Bible but Dumbledore dosnt represent God because Dumbledore("God") says he cant kill Voldemort(Devil) and it clearly says in the Bible that God will destroy the devil.

I was in English class today and we were discussing Paridise Lost which is the Bible's book of Genesis as told by Satan. After class i was talking with my friend who is also really into Harry Potter and it hit me, Harry Potter draws such close ties to the Bible im suprised i hadnt thought of it earlier.

Harry is a christ like figure, Dumbledore is God. Voldemort is Statan (of course). But Tom Riddle is the temptation in the garden of eden, the basilisk would be the snake of eden. Hagrid would be the race of man because he is decived by Satan/Snake (voldemort) and falls from grace but is still close to God. Snape wouldbe Judas, for he betrays Jesus in his time of suffering. Ron would be Peter, jesus' chief Apostle. Ginny would be Mary Magdaline (i know some are going to argue that Ginny isnt a prostitute but she has been with many guys and thats what led me to it) My friend also thinks that Neville would be Moses because he was described as a Neville is, forgetful, stuttering and such but then stands up for his rights.

Thats only a few characters but all i had time to think about and research. Im trying to find more. Tell me waht you think

I dont believe HP has any Christian allegories or relations to the Bible. I think JK meant it to be simply a children's story. You've brought up some very interesting points, but ts like the many people that look for religion in books like Lord of the Rings that simply arent there.

(psst...wishmaster...need to cut that signature down to five lines, please Thanks )

No, HP has no connection to the Bible whatsoever. The Chronicles of Narnia did, but no, HP doesn't.

As a by though, I'm monitoring this thread very closely and I'll shut it immediately if it gets abusive and people start ranting about others going to hell for their beliefs.

Maybe I'm naive in expecting it to remain so - I've been naive before - but, like Dumbledore, I try to believe in the best in people and trust that this can remain civil.

Don't give us a reason to lock it, okay? Ta

Personally, I can't see any relationship between Harry Potter and the bible, except the snake symbolism. Saying that, the serpent symbolising the less savoury aspects of a world/society is not merely limited to the bible - it has been a staple of fantasy literature for years.

To take some of your parallels on an individual basis:

Harry I don't see too many links between Harry and Christ. Granted, this may change with book seven, but the major point of Christ was the fact that he sacrificed himself and was resurrected. Now, there is always a chance that Harry will sacrifice himself to defeat Voldemort but JKR has gone on record as saying that there will be no resurrections in the books.

A closer parallel for Harry would be the Fantasy/myth architype - the young orphan who is ignorant of his true potential until a certain age and ends up destroying a great evil. To me, Harry is more reminicent of such characters as Belgarion (the Belgariad), Shea Ohmsford (the Sword of Shannara), Pug the Magician (the Riftwar series) and countless mythoological heroes.

Dumbledore Dumbledore as God, I really don't see that one. According to the bible, and christian tradition, God is omnipotent, ominescent and omnipresent - Dumbldore is none of these. He is fallable and admits that there are gaps in his knowledge. In fact, the closest parallel to Dumbledore for me is Merlin. Not only do they share certain physical traits (Merlin, along with Gandalf, is the architype for the ancient wizard), but they also share a similar fate at the hands of someone they trusted.

Voldemort I can't relate Voldemort to Satan either. According to the bible, Lucifer was an angel who was cast out of heaven for daring to challenge God. In no way could Voldemort have been thought of in angellic terms, even when he was Tom Riddle. Right from the start he was cruel and manipulative. Once again, I think Voldemort's ancestors can be found in the various fantasy epics that abound (Fistandantillus from the Dragonlance Legends springs to mind.)

Tom Riddle Tom Riddle is actually the closet to fit the theory - his leading of the various wizards and turning them into the Death Eaters could be seen this way.

Hagrid Every hero in fantasy and myth has to have the muscle to back him up on the quest. Jason had, for a time at least, Hercules, Arthur had Gawain, Belgarion had Barak, Harry has Hagrid. Although the conflict in the books is not physical, Hagrid certainly provides Harry with strength and support.

Snape Now this one I really do not see. The nearest to Snape I can see is Grima Wormtongue in Lord of the Rings, who allies himself with evil in oreder to advance himself. (If Snape is bad of course)

Ron Ron, for me, is, in part, a Lancelot figure (now this will please those out there who think Ron will betray Harry, which I don't agree with. That's another topic for a different time). No, Ron is Lancelot in the early days of the Round Table when he was a true, steadfast and loyal friend. Plus, should Harry fall in the final book, I cannot see Ron taking on the mantle of leadership the way that Peter did after the crucifixion.

Ginny Ginny is, perhaps, the hardest character to find a place for. In addition, I feel that she is one of the more complex characters in harry Potter, having many layers. As such, she fulfils many roles from various literary canons - Guinivere, Ce'Nedra, Cymoril, Penelope, etc. She is the 'true love' of the hero and, for some reason, fate intervenes to cause their seperation.

Neville Neville is Neville. I think he is,along with Luna, the most original character within the Harry Potter character list. For all my reading, I have never really come across another character like Neville nor Luna.

Anyway, this is my current take on the thesis.; I hope this one remains polite and open as I think I'm going to enjoy it

Right, civil good little post Sorry bout that other post, wont happen again
I think that any conections with the Bible were pure accident, not saying that there is none.
I think that maybe Harrys survival was a (unintended) metafore for the reserection.

I don't think HP has any relation to the Bible. It demonstrates the fight between good and evil but that's it. The Bible is good vs. evil too, but that's really the only sililarity.

Personally, I agree more with Slaine mac Roth than with the original post by AQHYAgrl. Slaine really nailed every character on the dot, in my opinion, with the exception of Ginny. Ginny seems like a sort-of flat character to me. She is in the book to put some romance into Harry's life, and to give him a passion. Otherwise, with the exception of Chamber of Secrets, she can be completely withdrawed from the book and it will not alter the plot nor my liking of the series.

I do not think that Harry Potter has an intentional relation to the Bible. Yes, people can be related to Biblical characters, but can't everybody...in life!? You can draw relations from anything to anything, whether it be a book to the Bible or your bedroom to the United States! Anything can be parallelled when analyzed and somewhat over-thought.


_daviD

I mean sure it was a little bit far fetched but there are books out there on the symbols of christianity in such movies as "The Matrix". So i guess im just saying that, in my opinion, these are very close ties that seem intentional, even if only on the very basic level.

I must say I was pleasantly surprised at the response to this topic...Personally I think there are relations from Christianity to Harry Potter, subtle symbolism, but subtleness is a favorite of JKR. Unlike the Chronicles of Narnia, which have very distinct, obvious ties to biblical stories, but C.S. Lewis intended this for people to see the analogies he wrote. JKR on the other hand didn't use the biblical stories into direct context, I think, to be creative and unexpected. I was actually reading a book recently, and I can't for the life of me think of the name( ), but the author was a little drawn out in some places, I'll admit, but others incidents it just hit you, "how come I didn't catch that?"

It wasn't all character parallels, which is where I disagree with Harry Potthead slightly, but also animal, circumstantial, and theme symbolism. There are two examples that I remember most from the book...

One you could easily disagree with, that being the semblance of the stag. Christ has often been represented by a stag through-out time(obviously not biblically based), in stories of saints and stags, in literature, and paintings. Harry incidentally is protected by a stag who defends him from the dementors who try to take his soul. Who else tries to take your soul? That's right, Satan. That one was a little suspicious but it stuck (I really need to find that book, it's bugging me now ).

The second I already was getting a grasp on if indirectly. It the whole love and evil scenario. From the Bible: "Greater love has no one than this, that he lay down his life for his friends" (John 15:13)." Reminds us eerily of James and Lily, no? Maybe of Sirius or Lupin who said they would openly "die than to betray their friends". Which brings me to Peter(Wormtail) who reminds me of Judas.

Just some food for thought. It's all based upon interpretation, just as the Bible is itself. Just as every piece of literate is looked upon. It's what you make of it.

Very nice post, Aphie

I do agree that it is all a matter of interpretation. If people really want to see the similarities, then they will. That's the beautiful thing about good literature I guess (and by that, I mean HP, the Chronicles - not the Bible, but I'm not going to get into that ) - that everyone can read it and see it in a different way and derive different messages from it. After all, we wouldn't have these forums if everyone read the books and saw them in exactly the same way.

I don't deny that there are some parallels, if you really want to see them, but I guess if I really wanted to, I could sit down and draw parallels with many other books. After all, isn't the story just like a thousand that have gone before it? Good versus evil, friendship, magic, suffering, courage, wars, peace etc - that describes just about every book that's ever been written.

wanna know whats funny?
before i posted this reply the number of views was on 66.
600 more and you've got satans own topic!

(no offense to any christians, jew or what have you etc...)

p.s im fervently atheist

Maybe J.K. just wrote Harry Potter to teachc us about life with a twist. Life will have betrayal, punishment, friendship, love, death, etc. Maybe she's trying to make us read in between the lines to figure out the secret meaning behind Harry Potter.

Ah, I dunno. The only way to find out is to ask J.K herself!

This may seem weird but hear me out. I have been thinking about this a long time and have come up with this .

Go on only if you want to.

I started to think a while back about the connection between the two and have found several, but I only have time to type this one. Most of us put the animal that represents evil as a snake here is where Slytherin comes in. While Slytherin was and is evil and all in it go bad said by Ron himself I began to think about a counter measure to the symbol and with further study of my bible and having remembering this fact the savior Jesus Christ is also known as the Lion of Judah where we get Gryffindor.
Now to go further lets go into the personalitys that the sorting hat stated in Harry's first book Slytherin power seeking. Satan or the devil is seeking power by corrupting the hearts of men and women. While Hufflepuff is concerning and and showed compassion to others and will do anything to help others. Raven claw is the wisest and most clever students go . Now Gryffindor is the bravest of all and lives to protect the weak. At this point some of you might be saying Ravenclaw and Hufflepuff I thought this was between the other two schools. These are all characteristics of Jesus Christ. However as I have noticed and so have many of you all the other schools hate Slytherin.
Now in CoS the other schools did dislike harry which carries on over to his school I think this is the time before christ's trip to the cross where everyone hated him and his followers. The remaining books are examples of this year and past and present years when people believed his message and followed him.

If any one has a question please don't hesitate to ask.

i like this topic tincho. where did you come up with these theories?


[Mod Edit] Hey there! Could you please take a couple of minutes to read through the forum rules? One liners aren't permitted on the the forums so elaborate some more in future posts. Thanks!

They just come to me i will further elaborate laterwhen i come up with more.

[Mod Edit] Hi! Please take a look at the post above this one, I want to ask you the same thing. Please take the time to read the forum rules, it'll help you to keep the Mods of your back. Thank you!

i was actually waiting for a thread like this, because a lot of people ridiculously think that all the HP books are satanic and what not because of the witchcraft, but i heartily disagree.. i like your theories, and another thing to add is that in the story of adam and eve, the devil was in the form of a serpent, which also happens to be slytherin's mascot.. i kind of took a different look at harry though.. it seems to me that he represents all of us, while Jesus was actually more like dumbledore.. he did everything he could to help Harry throughout all the books, and actually went as far as to die for him in HBP.. he has so much faith in harry, and truly knows in his heart that he's going to vanquish evil (voldemort) that he sacrifices himself for him.. Jesus died on the cross and sacrificed himself for us, and God always has had faith in us that we would do the right thing.. JKR also makes the connection that dumbledore gives everyone a second chance, and forgives them for whatever they may have done in the past.. well, God always forgives every one of us for anything we may do, and always welcomes us back if we ask for it.. i also read somewhere that JKR says dumbledore is the epitamy goodness or something like that, as opposed to voldemort's evil.. you could take this look at every story of good and evil that's ever been written, but i think it shows up really well in harry potter as well as Lord of the Rings...

i am glad to have gotten this open. the comments will make this worh while.
severus 66 the story of the serpent is where as i was going with in the mascot cut down but i focused more on the house while i meant it fore the mascot but as for the bit about dd i had been thinking the same thing but had not put it in words and for this i thank you.

i could not agree with you guys more. i have been raised in the christian beliefs and i am moving on to my 8th grade year at a lutheran private school. this will be my 10th year at this school. my aunt and uncle and cuzins are all against hp because the think it is sataninc because of the witchcraft and such. i really do truley believe that dumbledore dying has something to do with Jesus Christ being crucified on the cross and voldemort being wat he is has similar qualities to satan. i have been waiting to have a disscusion about this w. somebod. im glad you brought this topic up. i look forward to having further conversations with all of you on this topic. thank you.

yes i liek this theory also, i dont know if jk did it on purpose but it does seem to fit, and does this theory meant hat harry will eventually die to save the world? becuase that is what christ did.

Hey guys,

I'm sorry I didn't catch onto this earlier, but there is already a thread on this topic located here. However since there are a few well-thought out posts already, I'm going to move this up to the lounge and combine it with the other thread. Just wanted you to know where it's gone

~Pix

I just want to point out the connections here. First of all, before the time of Jesus, the Stag was the symbol of the Horned God of the forest, called by many names in many different pagan religions. Second as a pagan I see Jesus as one of the many dying gods that are seen in religions through out time. The God who sacrifices himself so that his people, country, land can continue to prosper in the blessings of the Goddess.

I did not read this whole thread so someone else may have already commented on this correspondence. If so I am sorry. Just my two cents. Blessed Be!

I also want to say that I completely disagree that there are ties to biblical stories here. JKR does use some awesome symbolism, but you people are putting things between the lines that are only there because you want to believe they are. I seriously don't think JKR is endorsing any religion with her novels. My point is the symbolism existed before the religions did, and in many cases the religions were founded on the symbolism and the images and feelings they invoke in the human psyche. I think JKR is using the symbolism for just that reason: to awaken the psyche, and not to endorse any religion.

Ginny's full name is Ginevre, which is a form of Guineverre, so I would think the closest analogy for the HP books could be the Legend of King Arthur.
But I can also see where people would get the Bible analogies from, too, so I certainly don't mean to sound like I was shooting that one down.
It's entirely possible that some of JKR's ideas came from the bible, but I think there are other sources of inspiration as well.

I am surprised at all of you!! none of you have touched on the sybolisim of harry!! what if harry was supposed to be the Godlike figure? you see, in the Holy Bible<NIV>, God casts satan in the lake of fire and brimstone. well, we know that harry will vanquish the Dark Lord<Voldemort>. Isnt this quite the same in a sence? i see dumbledore as more like the great archangel Micheal or how ever his name is spelled. this is interesting, because, well, the first actor to play dds part in a movie, was Micheal Gambon. of course, harry could be seen as Christ. i say this because, Jesus had 12 desciples didnt he? he did, that last question was just rhetorical, haha. hm, who are harrys desciples?
Harrys desciples:

Ron
Hermione
Neville
Ginny
Fred
George
Cho
Marietta
Ernie McMillan
Zachariahs Smith
Colin Creevey
Other Creevey Brother

I included people who were in DA, and Marietta, was one of them, because i see her as the betrayer. Not only that, Marietta comes to me as sort of like Judas.

I'm always wary of reading too much ... hardcore ... symbolism into things and taking it to heart. If you start doing that, you could really get yourself into a sticky corner one day, because you make yourself vulnerable to things that can so easily be seen out of context.

In a book, where the author is obviously making links to something specific it's ok, but I'd still be careful. I've often found myself caught up in wonderful symbolic analogies that I'm convinced is right, just to find some glitch and then it all comes crashing down.

The story about a hero who is destined to conquer an evil power is not unique to Christianity, because I believe it is a story that is almost rooted in our conscience genetically. With no mind to make any religious conclusions, it seems as though humans crave such a saviour, and it's each persons own prerogative to decide what that means - are we just lost souls searching for something that isn't there, or is this craving an indication that there really is someone who can do that? All I'm trying to say, is that the story has been repeated over and over in different guises, and I wouldn't be too eager to link Harry to Jesus. The idea is nice, and by all means think about it, but don't put your heart into it, because you'll find enough counter evidence to mess it up.

One thing I can therefore say for certain, is that the story telling devices Jo uses are pretty basic, which is not a bad thing, necessarily. For example, the Irish playwright, Dennis Johnston, classified 8 dramatic plot lines and said that all other stories are simply different mixtures of different elements of them.

That's why themes and ideas look familiar sometimes - not because the author really set out to draw specific parallels.

i dont think it relates to religious things at all the only thing like religious is voldamort is a bit like satan (voldamort is called the dark lord and well satan is everything to do with dark things)and harry who kind of was resurected but onli he didnt die he lived when no one else could

The story of Good vs Evil is so old that any story featuring the theme can have parallels drawn between them. I don't think JK set out to mimic the Bible in any way. She simply wanted to write a great story. It certainly has come out similar to the Bible in many ways.

snape is a judas. but i don't think judas was entirely a bad guy. afterall, would jesus have been able to fulfill his promise to christians if he didn't die. and judas helped him die, just like snape helped dumbledore die. maybe, judas worked for jesus the way snape worked for dumbledore....?

you mean like snape made DD more powerfull by killing him? to make him strog enough to defeat some greater powers?!?

But to your real subject:
it´s the eternal question of literacy, whether there are intertekstual effects in a book or not. I don´t think J.K. intentionally made him like judas. But a fact is that she is also a product of our history and culture. It would be wrong to denye the effect of those.. We could compare snape to many other controversial figures of literacy and history as well without claiming he is a moderation of those. I do not know.. your thoughts for some reason don´t go along with mine but I know what you mean. The history always affects, J.K. might have been influenced by the world she´s living in..

what i mean is that it is really unfortunate that we often chose to misjuge the usual suspects and undermine their roles in history. in reading the bible, i kinda thought that judas was misunderstood and that jesus loved him for a reason. i don't think that dumbledore is a jesus figure, but i do see lots of similarities between snape and judas. he was the obvious enemy and was given architypal 'bad guy' traits. but it's all a smoke screen to me. i think they are both misunderstood and play crucial roles in the way the story plays itself out. from the very first book snape was shown to be the villain. how many times do we need to be shown that he is not? if he ultimately is, it would be a serious flaw in the series ...

well there I agree. When you put it like that I understand that he has some similarities to the judas as a character. but i still don´t think J.K. did that intentionally. I do believe Snape is a good guy after all.. he was just forced to kill DD and he might know that there´s a way DD will be back in some form..

For the analogy to work, Dumbledore would have to work as the Christ-like figure in the story. As it is, Harry is the savior figure. Snape has never been cozy with Harry, and he's never been a follower of Harry's. He's been one of Harry's stronger antagonizers. It doesn't mean he doesn't have elements of the Judas archetype, of course. I think, though, in regards to Dumbledore-Snape is probably more the Brutus character. (Et tu, Brute?) Though, until we have the last HP installment, it's all just speculation on who Snape is exactly. And I suppose another telling thing for this analogy would be the turnout: if Snape has a sudden definitive remorse (given that he's bad), and kills himself over the guilt and grief; perhaps that would fall more in line with the Judas Archetype.

On a mod related note, I'm going to move this topic to the General Book discussions as it doesn't directly pertain to DH.

While Christian elements are present in the books, I feel that JKR would not label certain characters as individuals from Christian lore. I think that alot of christian allegories are present in the books, but are loosely associated with anything really specific. I do not think that JKR would fashion her characters with the thought of being able to label them as "Christ" or "Judas"... minor elements are great, but christian archetypal stories are very abundant, and I assume JKR is not trying to create another.

~Albus

Undoubtedly all of the stories mentioned have parallels. It is the nature of the beast, a Hero on a quest to bring the world aright. Some of the novels/ epics/ sagas mentioned are considered in literature to go back to the New Testament. The heroes are called "Christ Figures". Usually that means the hero has to die to finally set things right. This parallel was particularly vivid in the Matrix series.

I am hoping against hope, because I love this particular hero, that JKR doesn't want to follow that script too closely. We've already seen a Neo/Mr Smith type scene in the DoM where LV posesses Harry hoping DD will Kill Harry in the attempt to kill LV. It is my sincere hope and desire that Harry doesn't have to die, but I fear it will happen.

As for other parallels, in one Arthurian legend the title of one of the books was The Silver Hand, related to wielding Excalibur, and a loss of the sword hand of one of the knights. (This is a series written by Stephen Lawhead, approx 15 years ago).

Yes there are many parallels, because the characters are achetypal. You got to have a villain and a Hero and the various helpers and traitors to make the kind of story that grabs you.

I do not believe that this is a christ like analogy. For one DD is not really a christ like figure he is more like a Merlin, Gandelf carector in which they are very mortal (even though Gandelf is litterly of the race of minor gods in tolkin mythos.) they are wise but they really are not like neo as a christ like figure. I can see where people go with the snape is a Judas thing. IN my opinion Snape is a Judas, but all that means is that he sells out his friends and is a betrayer.

Also Pinkey what you said "but i don't think judas was entirely a bad guy. afterall, would jesus have been able to fulfill his promise to christians if he didn't die. and judas helped him die, just like snape helped dumbledore die. maybe, judas worked for jesus the way snape worked for dumbledore....?" THe bible says to paraphase I will die for your sins and triumph over death (what follows is a quote right after this paraphase) but whoe to him who betrayes me it would be better for him to have never been born. Judas was a backstabber and gets his just punishment in hell, yet his evil does set forth a good event. Judas is evil and what he did has evil, but from the bad there was an unententional good seed. For a literacy analisis Judas would be alot like Gollum. Is gollum redemed for attempting to kill the hobits, betraying the one who saved his life. bitting of Frodo's finger. IS this all made better because when he got it he accenedtally fell into the fire? If good comes from an evil action it does not redeem the sinner only the victims. ALso DD is dead JKR said so.

Since i believe snape is bad, i feel that Snape did DD no favors by killing him. Also, remember how afraid DD was when snape came torwards him. If you think the Snape is good then this paragraph will not convince you and will seem wrong.


THis might be alittle harsher than the moderators what but i really need to say this.

I don't think so. I just don't think that Harry was ment to symbolize God, Jesus or any other biblical person. I just don't see it, I do see that it's classic Good Vs Evil but thats all.
People were saying the same thing about the movie "Narnia The lion, the witch and the wardrobe" I didn't see it there either.
This is the way I see it. If you use that kind of symbolism (the good guy as God or Jesus and the bad guy as the devil) you can find similarity in just about any book or movie if you look hard enough.
but all it basicaly is, is GOOD Vs EVIL

OK, do you think there is any deep philosophical (Google search philosophy) meaning or life lessons in HP? I guess the whole Good vs. Evil think shows a lot, but any others?

I dont know about any others, but i think the Good vs Evil is a big thing in the books. If you think about it, everyone faces good and evil...right and wrong... in life. I think even like people who dont believe in God and the devil, still believe in good and evil otherwise what would stop people commiting murders and all that bad stuff? I think the Good vs Evil is a topic battled with in the bible, ( i dont know about the other holy religious books). If people didnt believe in the theory of the good and bad what self control would we have?
This topic has made me think now lol!

I could be off my rocker, but especially in the beginning of the series, I saw a huge parallel between Harry Potter and Star Wars. (The original three stories of 4, 5, 6 from the 80s.)

Hero, orphaned and raised by an aunt and uncle. Harry's resent him, Luke's loved him, but not like their own child.

Luke's father is evil incarnate; Harry's "creator" is also evil incarnate.

R2D2 shows up with a video from Obi Wan that tells him he has a mission. Luke later learns he's a Jedi, with the force very strong inside him. Hagrid shows up with a letter from Dumbledore telling Harry he's a wizard. Harry later learns that he's chosen.

I could go on, but that's my jist...

Just a quick note to say that I've merged two topics - Deep Philosophical Meaning and Hidden Meaning in Harry Potter.

You can discuss both religious and philosophical meaning in Harry Potter here then. Enjoy! I see you've touched on Star Wars too. Here's a thread on the similarities between HP and things like Star Wars and the Matrix.

Off topic, and I apologize, but the entire seven books of The Chronicles of Narnia are undoubtedly written as an allegory for Christianity. CS Lewis himself explained it like this:


His main intention for writing the entire series was to introduce Christianity to children.

He also goes onto explain how he visioned the allegory:



Now whether what he intended translates well today is a different discussion; we're more literal than we were 100 years ago. Also, I don't think the allegory came across as well in the movie as it does in the book/books, but it was still there.

These days, what could anyone write that wouldnt be in some way related to some religious means? I think it's fairly obvious that harry potter to some extent emulates christian beliefs. Epic struggle between good and evil, not to mention that there are some fairly obvious references. Snape being judas Harry obviously being christ in that he has to rid the world of satan (voldemort)

Oh, and let's be real, what wizard COULDNT turn water to wine? Seamus Finnigan to be sure (remembering the first harry potter movie)

There definitely are Christian meanings in HP....there is a book out called Finding God in Harry Potter...I don't know who it is by though! Sorry! I also think that DD could resemble God..the all knowing, you never think he could die person, except when he does it makes him sorta like a Christ figure.....deity in human form sacrificing himself for poeples' sins, except he is sacrificing himself for Harry. Thats all I've got for now, but he explains it better in the book Finding God in Harry Potter...plus JKR is a Christian and I think that she put some meaning in the books.

Sigh. As a species, we must be hard-wired to look for symbols and meanings in everything, even if they don't exist.
JKR wrote the Harry Potter stories as some Christian allegory? I doubt it. I think she just wanted to write a fun story (and she did!). But people will always want to read more into it, as if there is some hidden meaning in the stories, beyond the obvious that JKR is hoping we'll find. Trust me, if you look hard enough, and your imagination is sufficient enough, you can connect nearly any book with any idea, regardless of how disparate they are.
For instance, there is a cute, little book based on a Chinese fable called The Story About Ping. It's a story about a little duckling living on the Yangtze River. However, one (very clever) review of the book treat it as an allegorical reference to the UNIX operating system. The ducks are all packets, the boat is the host operating system, the river is the network, you name it, there is a hidden meaning in everything. Never mind that the story was first published in 1933, before either UNIX or TCPIP were fully realized.
Dumbledore as God? I think that's a bit of a stretch. Dumbledore is Harry's mentor, and sad to say, this is very formulaic. Dumbledore acts like the wise sage and advisor to the hero, just like Gandalf did with Frodo, Obi Wan with Luke Skywalker, and Chiron did with Hercules. When these teachers did all they could for their students, they had to step aside to allow their pupils to attain their full potential.
The Harry Potter books are just a fun read. I honestly don't see any deeper or hidden meaning in them anywhere. They take on a lot of popular, well known themes (good vs. evil, love conquers all, self determination) and wrap a good story around it. Period.