I just re read GoF but I am confused and need to read the last parts again, but I have a question that I hope someone can help me understand. When Harry and Cedric are taken by the portkey to the graveyard, Voldemort instructs Wormtail to "Kill the Spare" and then a second voice, (wormtails, I assume) says avada kedavra and kills cedric.

Then later, when Voldemort rises out of the cauldron, he reaches into his robe and takes out his wand.

When Harry and Voldie have the big fight and their wands "unite" and all that priori incantatem thing happens and all the echos of the people he has killed come out of Voldemort's wand, Cedric comes out first. THis would mean that Voldemort's wand killed Cedric, but it I think it was wormtail who muttered the curse.

This brings up 2 issues for me. One if Wormtail was using Voldemort's wand, isn't it unlikely that he could produce such an intense curse from it. I thought we learned earlier that wizards usually can't use each others wands well. THe second thought is if Wormtail used his own wand, then how would Cedric have come out of VOldemort's wand.

Did Wormtail use Voldemort's wand and then return it to him again after he had risen. We know that even though voldemort was weakened, he was able to use the wand himself earlier because he use the crucio curse on Avery. So why didn't he just kill Cedric himself?

I hate it when I have these sorts of questions pop up cause it makes me crazy, so any ideas let me know. Or if I have completely missed something obvious here, let me know that as well. Thanks

maybe because he was an evil wizard...i dont know...i never noticed that before!! good job, lol, for showing me something new!!

ah madamepomfrey yet another little thing that only you notcie! I don't think that it would be possible to kill someone with another persons wand. Or you'd have to be immensly powerful. So maybe Voldemort said that. I don't have GoF with me at the moment. Was it Wormtail's voice? But Voldemort said to 'kill the spare'
Ridiculous..it would be to say 'kill the spare' and then kill Diggory himself.

Pettigrew wouldn't have a wand. But you need to have powerful magic behind the unforgivables..

I know one thing for sure: it was Voldemort's wand. But he (Voldemort) didn't kill Diggory. I don't know who did, but it wasn't Voldemort. I don't have my book now, but there was something about second voice who said: Avada Kedavra.

I think that Wormtail used Voldemorts wand. It had to be because Voldemort was the one who said'kill the spare' and because Cedric came out of his wand. It also could have been a mistake because JKR made James come out before Lilly, which meant that she died before him which is not true. I still think that it was Wormtail using Voldemorts wand.

I think that Voldemort told Pettigrew to kill Cedric because it makes him feel authoritative perhaps? That he is powerful enough to order people around? I mean, the way JKR writes that part, you can feel the hair at the back of your neck stand from the turn of event. Maybe JKR writes it that way to make the scene more suspense or something? And you get this smileys and (which stands for 'fear' if you're wondering...) on your face...

Anyway, I think Voldemort is capable of using his own wand even before he had gained his body back. Like what he did to Frank at the Riddle house. If I remembered correctly, he was the one to cast the Avada curse to Frank and thus resulted in Harry's pain on his scar.

There is also Neville who was using his father's wand..

And as far as I can remember there was only Wormtail, Voldemort and Nagini(he cant use a wand) and I think that Voldermort said to kill Diggory and in the book it says and other voice so it's Wormtail who said Avada Kedavra.But For the wand, I don't remember if Voldermort took his wand somewhere, but while he was making the potion to bring back Voldemort, it says in the book that Wormtail was using his wand....

no, wormtail killed cedric but i think he did it with voldermorts wand
thats just what i think

I agree with everyone who said it was Wormtail using Voldemorts wand. As for someone in the previous books saying that you never get such good results using someone elses wand well I don't think that applies to the unforgivables. Moody told us in GOF that you need force behind it to make it work, well Wormtail had force, we might think he's a weak little rat but he obviously has some conviction to kill someone with anothers wand. And if you're going to say 'what about Neville using his dad's wand', well think carefully, weren't we always told that Nevillie only did well in Herbology? Reason - because you didn't need a wand. And if you want to say 'what about him in Potions', answer - Snape, he was terrified of him, so no wonder his work failed. His spells worked when he used his dads but not as good as other students who had their own wands. Do you see what I'm getting at?

[QUOTE]It seems I read somwhere, but maybe not in canon, that when I wizard uses another's wand, it doesn't usually work as well.[/QUOTE]

You're correct, madamepomfrey, and you did read it in canon! Here is the quote from "Sorcerer's Stone," page 84, American paperback:

[QUOTE]"Every Ollivander wand has a core of a powerful magic substance, Mr. Potter. We use unicorn hairs, phoenix tail feathers, and the heartstrings of dragons. No two Ollivander wands are the same, just as no two unicorns, dragons, or phoenixes are quite the same. And of course, you will never get such good results with another wizard's wand ."[/QUOTE]

In "Goblet of Fire," while posing as Mad-Eye Moody, Barty Crouch, Jr. explained to Harry's Defense Against the Dark Arts Class (page 217, American paperback) that:

[QUOTE]"Avada Kedavra's a curse that needs a powerful bit of magic behind it -- you could all get your wands out now and point them at me and say the words, and I doubt I'd get so much as a nosebleed. But that doesn't matter. I'm not here to teach you how to do it."[/QUOTE]

This quote, of course, is based on the assumption that everything the imposter taught the Hogwarts classes was true. There is no reason to believe otherwise, however, as Crouch Jr. clearly taught Harry to resist the Imperius Curse correctly, since Harry was able to fight Voldemort's curse in the graveyard. Finally, I would like to direct your attention to an excerpt from "Prisoner of Azkaban" (pages 354 and 369, American hardcover):

[QUOTE]"Your father and Sirius here were the cleverest students in the school, and lucky they were, because the Animagus transformation can go horribly wrong -- one reason the Ministry keeps a close watch on those attempting to do it. Peter needed all the help he could get from James and Sirius ."

[...]

"Lily and James only made you Secret-Keeper because I suggested it," Black hissed, so venemously that Pettigrew took a step backward. "I thought it was the perfect plan ... a bluff.... Voldemort would be sure to come after me, would never dream they'd use a weak, talentless thing like you .... It must have been the finest moment or your miserable life, telling Voldemort you could hand him the Potters."[/QUOTE]

It's possible that anger on the part of Lupin and Sirius could have caused them to exaggerate Pettigrew's stupidity and lack of talent, but between the fact that Pettigrew needed help from James and Sirius to become an Animagus and the fact that he is characterized as "weak" and "talentless," I don't really understand how he could be powerful enough to use Avada Kedavra. A Death Eater told Harry's class about the amount of power required to use a killing curse, and the quotes from "Prisoner of Azkaban" suggest to me that Pettigrew does not have this power. Add this to the fact that Voldemort's wand killed Cedric (see next paragraph), and it doesn't seem possible that Pettigrew was responsible for the murder.

There is no doubt in my mind, however, that whoever cast the curse, Voldemort's wand killed Cedric. Cedric's shadow appeared during the "Priori Incantatem" scene along with the shadows of Frank Bryce, Bertha Jorkins, and Harry's parents, and there is absolutely no way that Pettigrew's wand committed those murders.

EDIT: Sorry that the quotes didn't get put in those quote box-thingys, I have no idea what happened. I hope my post isn't hard to read because of that!

I've been thinking the same thing, that there are a couple references to how weak Pettigrew is. So I have wondered a few things which seem inconsistent with that and you brought a few of them up. First of all, would he have been powerful enough to do avada kedavra with someone else's wand. but then again, we know that he was powerful enough to kill several wizard and muggles at once and was clever enough to get Sirius Black blamed for it. So it is possible that Peter was more talented for dark arts than anyone realized or perhaps through his alliance with Voldemort, he somehow gained more magical power of his own. So while it is perhaps a consistency point within the story and not all that significant or maybe it will become important in later books, I still think that Peter must have used Voldemort's wand and killed Cedric. It just isn't clear in canon, to me anyway, when Voldemort gets his wand back.

I always figured that Pettigrew used several Avada Kedavra curses to kill the Muggles and frame Sirius, or maybe he did an entirely different spell that created an explosion or something and that's what killed the twelve people. Hmm... I don't know... Whatever he did to kill all those people, however, must have taken a certain degree of power. Pettigrew is probably underestimated by his friends, or maybe their opinions of him reflect the fact that they know he betrayed James and Lily... you know... personal biases. I thought it was weird, too, when Voldemort got his wand back. One minute, Voldemort's saying "robe me!" and then the next minute he's pulling a wand out of his pocket. I don't even understand how he still has his wand, since the Potters' house was destroyed when the curse failed, and how could Voldemort have held onto his wand over the years once he lost his body? Although it clearly is the same wand, or else the whole Priori Incantatem thing wouldn't have worked...

I am fairly sure that Wormtail killed Cedric with Voldemort's wand. It must have been Voldemort's wand because of the shados during Priori Incantatem. However, as the only people in the graveyard at the time were Wormtail, Harry, and Voldemort (not exactly a real person at that point...), and Voldemort told "someone" to kill the spare, and we know that Harry didn't kill Cedric, it must have been Wormtail, using Voldemort's wand. Maybe Wormtail was carrying Voldemort's robes, and he placed the wand into the robes when he was done with it so that Voldemort could pull it out after Wormtail "robed" him...I don't really know how that happened. It is possible that JKR just thought it would sound more impressive for Voldemort to pull the wand out than for him to say, "Give me the wand, Wormtail." Although I don't really know how powerful Wormtail actually is, it seems that his friends, teachers, etc. seem to underestimate him. He obviously has some amount of power because he was able to blow up the street. I'm fairly sure that there's something to him that we don't know about...a reason why he didn't appear powerful or something. Incidentally, where was he through all of OotP? Although I should probably put that on another thread...

I think that it was harry wand but voldemort used it to kill cedric diggory. i never really took much notice to that until it came up in this thread.

MOD EDIT : Your post has been edited because the quote was irrelevant and over-long.

When Voldemort´s and Harry´s wands connect, Lily comes out before James because she tells Harry to hold on because his father´s coming.
Ron also used Bill´s or Charlie´s wand in PS and CoS, but when it broke and the Weasleys win the money they buy Ron a new wand

Wormtail used Voldemort's wand to kill Cedric. He was also the only person who was carrying Voldemort and his robes so he had an opportunity to return the wand to the pocket.

The speculation concerning the original wand being returned to Voldemort is that Peter was with him at the Potter's house. After all, he was the Secret Keeper and could have shown him the location. Then Peter took the wand and hid it. When he returned to Voldemort, he took the wand with him to show his loyalty. (There is a JKR quote about this but I am not at the right computer to find it now. Quick Quotes has the interview.)

whos wand killed cedric this is easy it was voldemorts cause when voldemort asks for his wand wormtail gives him the wand that killed cedric]


swirlctw

The thing to remember about a wand is that is essentially only an amplifier, a conduit for magic. You can give a muggle a wand and it will be useless; by the same token a powerful wizard can perform magic with or without one. There are numerous cases throughout all five books of wizards 'borrowing' eachother's wands without too-disaterous effects.

On the second point, remember that Pettigrew is still a fully-fledged mage and to cast AK would only require a huge reserve of anger and resentment. I hate to mix my fantasy-tales but remember what Yoda said about the dark side - "Quicker, easier, more seductive".

It's always easier to destroy than create.

well wormtail was carrying voldemort in his hands so maybe voldemort cast the spell and then gave it to wormtail for safe keeping cause it couldnt have gone in the potion wormtail made with voldemort

It was Voldemort's wand but Pettigrew said the Avada Kedavra curse.

It MUST have been Voldemorts wand...why? cause Wormtail lost his! How on earth would he of carried his own wand when he was a rat!?

How Voldy kept hold of his though I have no idea. But seeing Wormtail and Voldy seem to be sharing wands.... you get the point. We also know that Wormtail could have performed a killing curse he blew up half a street while keeping sirius alive to frame him! So he could have used Voldy's wand (a VERY powerful wand) to kill someone.

It definately WAS Voldemorts wand that was used for the curse (as Cedric comes out of the wand with the priori incantatum) but it must have been pettigrew..as someone else said before it was only voldemort, pettigrew and Nagini at that point...maybe Pettigrew was able to use voldemorts wand because since he has spent so much time with him (as he was the only death eater to come to his rescue) it is possible that pettigrew has "trained" with the wand...through the year been doing smaller curses and spells with it...and has maybe somehow adapted himself to it...I mean Voldemort is still not even fully human at the time that this all happens...there is no way he can do such a powerful curse when he cant even walk by himself...

Yes, it was Voldemort's wand, as pig said above, Cedric came out of the wand Voldemort was using, which had to be his original, or else Harry would be dead.

And it was Peter Pettigrew who killed Cedric, because Harry hears someone say "Kill the spare." I don't know about ya'll, but I highly, highly doubt that Peter was giving orders to Voldemort. More likely Voldemort didn't want to waste his strength on a killing spell right before the body-regeneration, which must have been extremely tiring. So he had Pettigrew kill him instead.

This brings up interesting questions, like: How did Voldemort get his wand in the first place? The only plausible answer is that Pettigrew brought it to him. So how to Pettigrew get Voldemort's wand in order to bring it? He had to have picked it up before we went into hiding. Which means that Pettigrew had to have been present on the night that Voldemort killed the Potters. It also suggests that Pettigrew picked up Lily and James' and probably has possession of Bertha Jorkins, Crouch Sr. and Cedrics as well. These wands are probably being used by DE's that escaped from Azkaban.

hummm that is an interesting thought..I never really gave any thought into where Lilly, James and the other peoples wands went after they were murdered...good insight...what did happen to them all..it seems plausable that death eaters have them, but if it is true that wands dont work well unless they are your own then are they even ABLE to use them??

right! i think wormtail's using voldemort's wand that time!
coz' if he uses his own wand, we can't see cedric in the duel between harry and voldemort (priori incantatem)

it's really voldemort's wand that killed cedric!
and that's the great truth!

also, how would pettigrew even have a wand? when he escaped in book 3, he didn't have a wand...and he can't exacly just walk in to ollivanders and buy a wand...

The only possible explanation is that Wormtail killed Cedric and then gave Voldemort his wand. I just don't understand how Voldemort killed Frank and Bertha if at the time he was just a weak ugly baby. And how did he torture Wormtail? Surely at the time Wormtail was much stronger than Voldemort as Voldemort's extremely weak at the time.

Wormtail killed cedric with voldemorts wand. I believe he was able to do the curse with voldemorts wand out of fear, the fear of what would happen to him if he failed.

I don't really care which wand killed Cedric I do care that it was Wormtail who did the murder.

i agree, i mean voldermort was using his wand, it didnt say that he summoned it so wormtail must have been using it to kill cedric, it doesnt make much sense otherwise unless JK made a mistake.

I'm pretty sure it was Pettigrew using Voldemort's wand. Pettigrew didin't have a wand after turning himself back into a rat, and I doubt he could just go out and buy a new one, given the state of things.

oh good question, he couldn't have been using his or voldemort since they umm dont have one. I think he might have used cedrics or harry's I didn't really pay attention. I think the reason pettigrew was able to make the powerful curse was because he probably fears voldemort enough to try really hard to fulfill his requests, and being the scum that he is, he probably thought of killing as a task and did it as if his own life depended on it.

you all are looking waaaaaaay too deep into this. it is obvious that peter pettigrew did the avada kedavra, since he was the only other person in the graveyard besides harry and cedric, and it did say "a second voice." as for which wand was used, its quite obviously voldemort's for 2 reasons: the first is that both cedric and harry's parents were killed by the same wand. the second, and most obvious, is that peter pettigrew doesnt have his own wand. hes been a rat for 14 years, and obviously hasnt had a wand hidden up his ass (if you remember, he tried to steal rons because he had none of his own...). and he surely didnt stop by ollivanders while strolling through diagon alley to purchase a new one (common sense dictates that he'd be recognised, obviously). therefore, peter just used voldemorts wand to kill harry, since voldemort was "bundled up" and therefore incapable of using the wand himself.

it had to be voodemorts wand because when harry and voldemort fought, that little thing called priori iincantatem happened. In other words, harry and voldemorts wands were both fighting each other in order for this to happen.

if you watch the movie and/or read the book you wil find out that voldemorts wand killed cedric. when voldemort comes back to life and he gets his wand back and is dueling with harry there wands connect and the people (some not all) who voldemort kiled came back as ghosts or spirits. and one of those watever they ares was cedric

does that answer your question?

i hope it does

well its worm tail who killed Cedric suchan innocent Huffle Puff boy.I hate that worm tail.

it was defornaly wormtal who sai it but i think it was with volys wand!!!

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the wand that killed ceidric was voldemorts wand for if it werent ceidric would have never came from the tip of voldemorts wand when the two wands conected

I definately think it was Pettigrew using LV's wand to kill Cedric.. the references to how weak Wormtail was/is are all made referring to him at school.. while we know that he is always attracted to stronger figure (I guess for their protection more than anything) it is possible that LV had passed on some knowledge to Pettirgrew while the Rat has been a DeathEater.. afterall, what use is a weak and talently wizard to LV in his army?

It is a bit loose regarding the amount of power required to execute the AK curse, combined with using another wizards wand.. but, as Bellatrix says in OOTP when she taunts Harry about using the Cruciatus curse, you have to really mean it to perform an unforgivable curse, really want to inflict pain and suffering. I'm sure Pettigrew's fear of LV, and his desire to be in his favour (which is one thing that pushed him to go the dark side, his fear of the Dark Lord, and his powers) would have been strong emotions

Did Pettigrew use the AK when he killed all the Muggles (the killings that Sirius was framed for?)

I think no one in here has any doubt that Wormtail killed Cedric with LV's wand.
The problems which appear are: Where did Wormtail let his own wand? If he couldn't take it because he was a rat, where did he have it when they were in school? And what about the others? I think that he could have carried it, because this works with his clothing too...
But why didn't he take it?

If Wormtail couldn't carry his wand, who did take Voldemorts? Logically it must have been in the potters (destroyed or not) house. But how does Voldie get it back? Maybe there had been someone else, but he (whoever) couldn't have been there when Voldie "died" because he would have known that Voldie wasn't really dead. So he must have appeared when Voldie had already disappeared. But Hagrid must have been away too, or we would know.
If really someone was there and took Voldie's wand, who was it? And how did he bring it back to him before the GoF? I doubt that Quirrell had to do something with this...

Wormtail may not have had too many problems with performing the AK. As far as I know, Ollivander just said that you'd never get as good results with another's wand, but not that you'll have serious problems...
And to perform an unforgivable spell, you need enough hatred and that may not be a problem for Wormtail...

But we know that JKR makes mistakes, see the Thestral topics (at least I think it's a mistake in there). Lily must have appeared after James in the priori incatatem thing, and the voldie gets his wand back thing may be another one. But I'd be very happy if you can help me with that question...
Thanks

I too think it was wormtail using Voldy's wand. So no big deal.

Mod Edit: Hi there Radcliffefreek! Welcome to the forums! Could I ask you to look at the rules, please? One liners are not allowed. Thanks!

Haha. Well now that you emtnion it. i never actaully noticed that the people who came out of LVs wand were people he had killed. But now you tell us.... but if waht you says is true then it doesnt make sense that Cedric came out of LVs wand.

it was voldemorts wand being used by pettigrew. we know because during the priori encantatem shortly after cedrics gohstly form cam out of voldemorts wand. but clearly voldemort didnt kill him because he ordered wormatil to cuz at that point he had no real body yet.

Yeah I agree with Nymphadora419 that it was Voldemort's wand obviously used by Wormtail, because Cedric's ghost wouldn't come out of Voldemort's wand during the Priori Incantantem if he wasn't the last person his wand killed!!

I also agree Wormtail was holding Voldermorts wand at the time.He killed Cedric. Because Voldermort's is white isn't it??

I was always confused about that, but just when i read the the thread title it clicked.

I think that Peter brought VM, the Cauldron, the potion in the cauldron, and VMs robes to the graveyard. Peter spent 12 years as the Weazleys' rat. There is no good place for a rat to carry a wand. Peter must have acquired a wand though to capture the lady from the ministry (thot just occured to me). Though again, he could have used VMs because VM was in such frail condition and very often Peter was forced to work like a slave. VM doesn't seem too keen to give Peter much that Peter might need, and searching out a wandmaker may have been too much trouble. Although one wonders whether or not VM was able to make PPs wand? I think that one of the qualities of being a death eater (and this will apply later to another character) is that one is able to produce the unforgivable curses. They are probably taught as some sort of Initiation/ Orientation session in the DEs.

It is obvious that VMs wand killed Cedric. I think it was PP who borrowed VMs wand because PP was working on the Cauldron and the Potion at the graveyard and Cedric would be like a fly that had to be swatted. PP had VMs robes which then had the wand within the pocket or sleeve, so PP just put the only wand available back where he got it from.