I thought it would be an interesting topic to talk about S.P.E.W.

Would you buy a badge?

I think that I would... I all for standing up for what I believe in. I know that elves don't want to be free... and i wouldn't try to free them, but i think that they should get the following:

**vacation

**pay

**proper clothing

**sick days

**freedom of speech


What do you think??

I think I would buy a badge but I agree with you padfootx3 I wouldn't want to force them to leave there owners If they didn't want didn't want to leave

I dont' want them to force them if they feel if it is insulting them but if majority are out there like Dobby then I would of course,but badge and fight for their freedom.And about vacation,I don't think they bother to have one and they only want to stay with their owners.Pay,that's their wish..but I guess they are getting food and shelter for the work they are doing right?.Proper clothing,if we give them,it means setting them free and I don't think they like clothes..Freedom of speech?I guess they are too shy to speak in front of wizards..But only think I would fight for is..Wizards or their owners should give them respect treat them as their friend rather than looking down upon them as a servant.If only Kreacher was treated with respect,Sirius wouldn't have died..

Well, the reason why they don't want all that is because they have been trained not to want it... but it we show them how nice it is to have proper clothing, speak however they want about whomever they want, etc. then maybe they will be more willing to accept it.

Well I don't think that it's because they've been trained that their that way I think that it is because of the spell that has been put on them. You know in the fourth book when winky had to go sit up real high at the quidditch match and save a seat even though she was scared of heights or like when she was trying to run away but it was like there was something holding her back. I think that spell brain washed them to think that way.

I would probably buy a badge just to shut Hermione up and then I would probably never wear it. I woul however free the houselves who wanted to be freed like Dobby. I would not, like most of you, force them to leave if they don't want to, but I would take Kreacher regardless (he is so adorable )

Would i buy a badge erm i suppose i would. I mean i really don't think Wizards that have magic need sort of slaves really. I don't think anybody except Dumbledore regrads thier House elves with friendship really. So yeah oi would buy a badge of couse partly to shut Hermione up. But i do agree with it in a sense.

Dawlish, you think Kreacher is adorable? That scares me a bit. I like Kreacher almost as much as I like Lockhart or Umbridge. He is very funny and many other things, but I don't think he is adorable. I can see why you like him though.

As for SPEW, I would not buy a badge. Mainly it is because I am stubborn. I would not let Hermione harrass me into buying one. As for the house elves, why set them free? Yes, they are slaves. But they are happy. Why would you take away someone's happiness? Does it matter why they are happy?

Do I have the right to take away the best thing you have in your life because I think it is wrong? Of course not. Why take away the best thing the elves have because you think it is wrong?

Dude they are not happy at all they just have a spell on them to make them want to do it all and have a certain happy ( if you can call it that) attitude. I mean look at Kreacher he has gone insane and dobby well that's just cruel. If they were born normal then put into slavery I can assure you they would not be happy. The only house elves that are happy are ones with owners that give them days of and vacations and tell them to never punish themselves ever. You want to know who those people are aka no one except Dumbledore!!!

Dobby is a free house elf. So is Winky. Any spell that was on them would have been lifted when they were freed. Yet both still want to work as house elves. Winky refuses payment and is ashamed that she was dismissed.

Simply enough, she did not change when she was freed. If she was under a spell that forced her to think being a slave was good, it would have been lifted when she was freed. Yet she still thinks being free is worse than being a slave.

I can't imagine any sentient creature being happy about being enslaved. History has dozens of examples of enslaved peoples who claimed they were happy as slaves (or happier than they were before they became enslaved) only to have them later slit the throats of their masters. Kreacher might claim that he is loyal to the Black family and that he is happy, but I don't believe it for a moment. The Blacks must have treated him like vermin, like many pure-blooded wizarding families did during Voldemort's rise to power. I'd guess that he's out for revenge and doesn't particularly care which wizard is harmed.

Would I buy a badge from Hermione? No, not a chance. Suddenly emanicpating a group of elves who've never known anything other than slavery is not doing them any favors. I've just taken away they only purpose they've ever known. What will they do now? How will they live? Where will they go? Look what happened to Winky. Sure, there's always the oddball like Dobby who knows what to do, or where to go, but I'd bet that most would feel lost and worthless. They no longer have a place in wizarding society.

Anyway, Hermione pities the house elves rather than respect them. I find that a little insulting. It's kind of like the well meaning, but rather ill informed people who pushed to release to the wild an orca (the star of Free Willy). I'm sure they all meant well. But the orca was raised in captivity and had no idea how to function or survive in the wild. It had no place there and I'm sure it suffered horribly when its handlers tried to reintroduce it into a world it didn't understand.

Elias, I agree with your comments about Hermione pitying the house elves. I think it is funny that she does not realize how incredibly condescending she can be. She thinks she knows what is good for a house elf better than the house elf itself....it is insulting.

True, many people have falsely claimed happiness when they were miserable. I don't think this is true of the house elves. Dobby complained when he was unhappy (although he had to punish himself for it). Kreacher constantly complains about mudbloods and blood-traitors and needing to serve them, but he does not punish himself. I think house elves are free to speak their mind unless they are told otherwise. Even then, they can do it, but they msut punish themselves. We have not seen enough of the house elves to know if this is a general trait they have or not.

Okay I think that maybe Hermione goes a little overboard with the whole thing but all in all she's doing it for a good cause. House elves are used to being how they are and they like it mostly because they probably do not like change. What I want to know it what house elves were before they were slaves. I mean, they could not have been slaves since the beginning of time.

i wuld want them to act however they wanted. when DD hires dobby he offers him something like 10 halleons a week(i think) but dobby chooses to only get i a week and dd also says that dobby can call him some name i dont remember but dobby refuses. so some might want some freedoms like sick days, vacations, etc.. and some may not. like i said in the beginning they should be able to act however they want.

I wouldn't buy a badge. Hermione's obsession with s.p.e.w., and the fact that she doesn't understand drives me crazy. House elves do not want to be free. They do not want pay, or sick days, or vaction. How long is it going to take Hermione to relize that they dont want this?

And to Belatrix Lestrange, you don't understand how house elves feel. After the Burial was right in saying that they are happy doing what they do, even if you wouldn't like it. There is no spell put on house elves to enjoy their slavery, that's just how they feel.

If the house elves say they are happy, who is Hermione to contradict them? Part of her attitude about this issue stems from the fact that she is muggle born and doesn't fully understand everything that goes on in the wizarding world. Besides I have never found in the books why the house elves are so willingly subservient. Is it just their nature or is it an enchantment on their race/species? I mean, there are people in this world who are just people pleasers and can't say no, or when they do they feel incredibly guilty. So it stands to reason, given the behavior of house elves at large, that they are simply doing what it is in their nature to do. I wouldn't buy a badge or support S.P.E.W. because by setting house elves free I would be forcing them to behave in a way completely against their nature and that in itself would be wrong. Of course, there are always odd balls in any group, such as Dobby, and I suppose if a house elf wanted freedom, that would be okay too. Forcing anyone into servitude or to behave in a way that is against their nature is wrong. I understand where Hermione is coming from, but again I don't think she fully understand the function and nature of house elves.

I think Hermione does understand their function. They are servants. They are generally considered inferior by most wizards. I think this is why she feels as strongly as she does. They are viewed as second-rate by many wizards. I think Hermione believes that muggle-born prejudice and house elf-servitude stem from the same place.

I think Hermione is really trying to prove that the so-called second class citizens are every bit as good as their 'superiors' through SPEW.

So you actually believe that elves enjoy being enslaved? Hermione's heart is in the right place even though her head isn't. She has a strong sense of conscience that doesn't allow for the enslaving of a sentient group of beings. While other wizards might view house elves as things rather than beings, Hermione, who was raised in a different culture, can't. Many wizards, to their own detriment view and treat their house elves as things. Lucius Malfoy, to his horror, found he was betrayed by a creature whom he felt was barely capable of providing dinner.

I agree that the treatment of many house elves is atrocious. They do not deserve to be mistreated the way Dobby was by the Malfoys or the way Kreacher was by Sirius. They are sentient beings. They should have the power to dictate their own lives and destinies. If a house elf wants freedom, he or she should have it.

Yet we have seen time and again that many house elves do not want freedom. I do not think you should force your beliefs onto another person because you think it is what is right for them. I think that is what Hermione is doing. When someone (I think it was Fred or George) said that they were happy, Hermione responded by saying, "That is because they don't know any better." I don't understand why Hermione presumes that she knows what is best for an entire race of sentient beings.

House elves can think for themselves. If they use their own conscious thought to choose enslavement, why should someone force otherwise on them?

Well, I am a horrible person, but I have to agree with you here. I might hate people, but I love things that aren't human. I know, I'm weird, what can I say. It depends on what they want, really. If they're weird like Dobby and want freedom, they should be able to have it. Still, if they don't, then that's up to them. They're individuals, though I think they should at least have a Union, just incase you know they all of a sudden all get really mad at their people, they can at least complain to someone who cares, you know. Even if the union has no purpose, it exists, thus they have some sort of organization incase it comes a dire need, like let's kill our house elves fest, or something like that. House elves can do whatever they want, though I do think they deserve to be treated less like animals, and more like people. They deserve respect, that's what I think, but they don't have to get things they don't want. They need to be heard, though. If they have something to say, I don't want their voices to get lost in politics. I understand where Hermione is coming from, but somethings they just don't want. They might not want pay, but I doubt they want to be ignored, and I doubt that they want to be treated like vermin. That can be prevented, simply, and it's easy not to ignore them, just take out your ear plugs. They don't have to take it, but we can at least offer them some sort of dignity.

STOAOOFMCACFACITLG forever!

~Aeryn~

I dont know if I would buy a badge simply because some elves take it as an insult to be Free, and as you can see many of the elves at Hogwarts didn't want to be free and were surely happy to serve for Dumbledore, but examples as Dobby, he wanted to be free and he is getting vacations and sick days, and pay, but on the other hand Winky was a freed elf to and it didn't look like she wanted to be free at all, she actually wanted to serve her master....so I don't really think I would buy one, because some elves will want to be free, and some elves will not.....and I woundn't want to force them or insult them with clothes if they didn't want them. Isn;t that the whole reason why Dobby was the only one cleaning up the Gryffindor Dorm, and the other elves didn't bother cleaning it anymore, because they didn't want the hats, meaning the elves rather not be free?

So many people have brought up that Hermione feels so strongly against people who enslave elves because she herself is prejudiced against because she has muggle parents. I never really thought of it like that, but i think that its a very good point. I, mean, like Hermione i believe that people should stand up for themselves and i think that what she's doing is very inspiring. I may not fully agree with her, but i think i would buy a badge because she is just standing up for what she believes in, and a lot of other people don't have the courage to do that.

I am glad that Hermione does possess such strong convictions. She is doing what she believes is right. I do not fault her desire or intentions. I simply believe she is allowing an emotional response to cloud her so-often penetrating gaze. She is not examining the situation as throughly as I think she should.

Any time a counter-arguement is raised, she waives it off with broad statements for which could not and does not have any proof. I fail to see the logic in her arguements.

I know it's a pretty useless cause because it will never happen, but i just feel so bad for Hermione. I know she is acting out of her experience of being discriminated. I feel so sorry for her. : (

**vacation

Don't the ones working at Hogwarts get kind of a vacation when students are gone home...

**pay

I totally agree they should! If I was working that hard I would be like 'Give me my money!'

**proper clothing

Totally! I would sooooooooooooo die if I had to go about in dirty rags.... But you never know that could be the next skinny jeans!

**sick days

Well... I can't imagine house elves getting sick really...

**freedom of speech

YES !!!!!

SPEW forever

I think that house elves should get pay, but only if they want it, like it's offered, but not forced on them.

And anyway, what about all the house elves not at Hogwarts, that don't get a break when the kids leave?

And also, what about all the teachers?

So technically, none of the house elves REALLY get a vacation.

That's my opinion.