Hey there, I was just wondering, remember in GoF when Barty Crouch Junior picked up Harry's wand from the forest where they (Harry, Ron, and Hermione) fled to when the Death Eaters attacked the campsite at the Quidditch World Cup, to cast the Dark Mark into the sky? However, in the SS/PS, when Harry was choosing his wand at Ollivander's, the first couple blew stuff up and other things, clearly not working for him, then Ollivander said, "The wand chooses the wizard, Mr. Potter", or something like that, now, how did Harry's wand work perfectly for Barty Crouch Jr., whereas other people's wand aren't supposed to work for someone other than them, get my point? And in this case, Barty Crouch Jr. used it to perform Dark Magic or what I call, "Bad Guys Magic" (hehehe), when they aren't supposed to work for anyone but themselves?!? And this isn't the only time this has happened!!!!!!! What do you think?

This is in the wrong spot. It's not a Fanfiction so it should not be here. I'm moving it to the General Books forum.

To answer your question however, the wands blew things up in the Movies, not in the Book. In the Book they did nothing. No blowing things up, no causing shelves to collapse or whatever.

Ollivander said 'You'll never get such good results with another Wizards wand' or something of the sort. So you can use someone else's wand but it won't have the full potential as using your own. Neville for example used two peoples wands throughout the series. His fathers wand all through to OotP until his was snapped and he used Hermione's when she was knocked unconscious. So they can use another's wand. The proof is there. Don't trust the Movies, they have to keep people entertained. We saw in GoF, Ollivander used Harry's wand during the Weighing of the Wands, he only cast a simple spell but that fact is he could use it.

Ah-hah! True, but, Neville, as you pointed out, used his father's wand, and they are family, which means they have the same blood, don't you think that'd be an exception? And I was not referring to the movies, but yes, the books, I don't really mean "blow things up" but I meant cast spells and such. Ollivander, as you have been kind to point out, used Harry's wand to produce a simple spell, sprouting a bouquet of flowers I think it was, and these things were simple spells with one another's wand, however, Barty Crouch Junior picked up Harry's wand in GoF, he used it to produce the Dark Mark, very advanced magic, not plain, simple, easy spells.

I don't think it matters what kind of spell it is, easy of difficult. If you can do the spell with your own wand then you can do it with someone elses. Every wand is capable of producing the Dark Mark you just need the incantation, or wand movement or whatever it is.

I don't think the blood link holds up though, because we've been told in the books that all Wizards are inter-related. So that would mean they have the same blood just diluted by however many gaps there are in the families. There's another thread that points out that Harry is related to Sirius who we know is related to Molly Weasley and Tonks, who are related to the Malfoy's and so on. So I don't think blood has anything to do with it. Look at Muggleborns, how could they be related to Wizards if there isn't a vein of magic in their immediate family?

No, I think you just need to know the spell to use anothers wand. It won't be as good but it will still work. I wish JKR had told us the wand movement for the Dark Mark. We know the incantation but that's it.

triad, what do you mean "all wizards are inter-related"? if jkr wrote that, could you point out where?

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Good topic
Well, according to PS, Mr Ollivander said "The wand choses the wizard" right after telling Harry that his wand shared the same core as LV's
And before that he said something about wizards using other wizard's wand that they'll never get such good results.
I guess that what Triad meant was that in OotP, Serius says to Harry that all "pure-bloods" are inter-related because some of them married Muggles, or half-blooded wizards

I think that you can use any wand that you find, but your wand will work better with you than any other wand. Blood may have something to do with you being able to use some one elses wand.

On page 160 in the U.S. hardcover edition of Sorcerer's Stone, Ron, Harry, Hermione and Neville are trying to hide from Peeves and Filch. They run into a door that is locked and they think they are caught. Then it says-

" Oh, move over,"Hermione snarled. She grabbed Harry's wand, tapped the lock, and whispered, "Alohomora!"

The lock clicked and the door swung open.

- So I think this supports what time turner said, that your own wand will work best, but you could also probably use a wand that you found somewhere.

yes yes, one thing, THOSE WERE SIMPLE SPELLS, not hard ones, BCJ (Barty Crouch Jr.) used it to cast advanced magic, and he got perfect results, what gives?

I dont know if the dark mark (morsmorde) is advanced,

it is mentioned in OOtP as being beyond the abilities of Ron, Harry and Hermione. But they are still young,(between 3rd and 4th year, 13 years old) it may be quite simple magic for a fully trained wizard

Well, all spells can be cast with any wand, the spells are just more effective if they are from your own wand. It probably doesn't matter if it is dark or good magic. Besides, Barty Jr. was at a decent wizard age, and probably very familiar with the spell by then, so he could cast it with any wand seeing as how familiar he was with the spell. If he had rarely done the spell before, then he probably would not have been able to do the spell with a different wand from his own. So i think it depends on how familiar you are with a spell that makes it how well you can do it with another wizards wand. I am just guessing, but i am pretty sure I am accurate.





JellyBelly

Well my previous post seems to have disappeared but I'll try to post again..



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Now, I see what you all are saying and they all make sense.

thts a really good point rebel_megz tht just comes to show us tht every book has its flaws

I've always wondered... Why wands?

I tend to over think things. I wish I wouldn't because then I come to strings like this. Yes, i know its fantasy and things don't always need an explanation, but the how and why can be fun, right?

Wizards and witches in the magical world use wands to cast magic. However I've been wondering what holds more power. The wand or the wizard who uses it?

Without their wands, wizards can cause things to happen when they're in high stress situations. For example Harry growing his hair or ending up on the roof when being chased by Dudley and Neville bouncing when accidentally being dropped out a window. So obviously without their wands they have the ability to use an inert power. But without a wand, we don't see many casting magic. I do assume though that apparation can be done without using a wand.

When Harry didn't have a wand he was virtually helpless. But he was still learning. Could older, more powerful wizards cast magic without wands? Or is the wand their critical tool to unlocking their inner power? I also figure wands will only work for a person with magical abilities (kind of a duh statement, sorry). If somehow a muggle came across a wand, it wouldn't work for them even if they know a charm or incantation.

Anyone else have any thoughts or ideas to add? I'm curious.

I guess that the wand is more powerful than the wizard. The wizard and the wand both have their separate powers, but when young wizards are learning, the wand helps tone and enhance their powers. Wizards can do magic when they are little, but once they get a wand, they don't concentrate on making magic of their own. I guess what I'm trying to say is that maybe wizards become too dependent on their wands and lose the ability to do magic without a wand when they are older.

I see what you're getting at. I believe, regardless of who chooses who, the wand and the wizard/witch work together. The wand is simply a peice of wood with a part of a magical being in it. This is probably why casting things with wands works better. But the wizard/witch themselves would also make themselves better obviously by learning more spells. Therefore, i think the wand is more powerful than the wizard, because without a wand a wizard/witch is very helpless, seeing as how their magic range wouldn't be very large at all. Really, though, it's a matter of opinion.

I think the wizard is more powerful than the wand. A magical person can do magic without a wand, and a wand can not perform spells on their own. But together, they produce the best effects.

What I don't understand is the whole 'Wand chooses the wizard' thing. I mean, is it like a tool or something, where you have one your used to and it just happen to be your favorite and seem to work best for you? (That was a long run-on sentence. ) Or is the wand capable of choice, choosing the wizard it thinks it will work best with?

I think the wizard is more powerful than the wand. Wizards can perform magic when they're younger without a wand, so the wand isn't always neccessary to perform the magic. I think wands kind of control the magic, so its easier to handle magic. I think the wand controls the magic best if it is the wand that "chose" you. In DH, when Harry is using Malfoy's wand, it didn't work as well for him because it couldn't handle the magic as well as his Phoenix Feather wand.

Well Foresaken_Wolfess I understand what you are saying but if you think of it sometimes when, lets say getting a new baseball glove, You put it on trying to figure out the correct length, width, and how it feels. When I found my trusty old glove I put it on and new immediately that this glove will be mine. Its kind of weird. But I think it is trying to point out your saying. If it isnt tell me

Andrew

First off I just want to comment that I loved the comparison to the baseball glove, its probably the best way to put it that I've ever heard.

I don't necessarily think that the wand physically chooses the wizard, I think that's just a figure of speech. By all logical terms you choose your own wand, but you don't know what one will work for you until you get to the shop. You can't say hmm I really think that oak with unicorns hair would work well for me, you can't sit there and look through a catalog and pick out the style you like the best. That's why they say that the wand chooses the wizard, because you don't know that that wand is the one you want until it's in your hand and then it just feels right.

Ok I have a question I thought of while answering that. What if the wand for you isn't at the wand store you go to? Remember in book one how Harry tried out tons of wands before Olivander thought to give him the one with the same core as Voldemorts, well what if Gregorovich had been the one to make Voldemorts wand, then wouldn't he have had the brother wand? In that case what would Olivander have done for Harry? Or, since I'm sure this isn't a one time deal, what happens if the wand maker you go to just doesn't have the right wand for you?

~Kristina

good point Weasly_Girly_83
I don't really have a direct answer to that, but maybe this will help you out.

Wizards don't necessarily need wands, that is a fact. We know it concerning Harry. There might be a few others I forgot, but there are two known happenings of magic done without wands. That cannot be entirely considerd simple magic.
1. Arianna Dumbledore managed to kill a fully grown witch without any magical weapon. Of course it was an accident, but that doesn't deny the fact. --> Deathly Hallows
2. Albus Dumbledore lifted some of Hogwarts security enchanments by just using foreign/ancient speech. --> Halfblood Prince

About the "Wand chooses the wizard"-statement:
I don't remember who it was that mentioned it first, but it is mentioned more than once, that a skilled wizard can channel his magic through nearly every object.

Also I think magic is not limited by blood, but by the soul. In DH Harry finds out that he is the last Horcrux created by mistake and LV disposes of it by hitting Harry with the KillingCurse in the forest. During the conversation between Harry an Dumbledore in Harry's "head", Dumbledore tells him, that the crying boy sitting in the corner is beyond any of their help. I think that crying boy is the part of LVs soul given to Harry when attacked as a baby. Maybe thats why he can use Parsletongue.

I definitely agree with you can use just about any wand. And it probably just depends on how powerful you are and how hard the spell is, as well as how familiar you are with it. With the Barty Crouch Jr. example, and him casting the Dark Mark, for all we know, it's a quite easy spell if you're not a 13-or-14-year-old.

And with "the wand chooses the wizard," it probably does just mean that it has to feel right. Wands aren't the only thing like that. For example, you usually can't just ask your friend to go buy you a pair of shoes, right? You have to go try them on. It's a poor example, I know, but it still kind of works!

And I believe wizards can perform wandless magic, can't they? It would probably depend, like if you use a wand that's not yours, on your power, and what the spell was. I doubt it would work if you tried to do this really hard spell that you'd only done once or twice before, after all.