Parents play a large and vital part in the raising of their children, from their birth to throughout their adult years. However, there are many different views and perspectives regarding parenting and parenthood. The Duellers have, in past Daily Prophet articles and in other posts around the GH, proven that they have something to say about parenting. Some ideas and topics that you might want to hit upon in this thread include (but are most certainly not limited to):

• How parents tackle common problems in today's youth (i.e. drugs, alcohol, violence);
• The differences between parents with older children and new parents with younger children;
• The teenage perspective: how should your parents be parenting?;
• Are parents too protective, or are they just looking out for their childrens' best interests?;
• How much space should a parent give a child?;
• Child neglect;
• Now and Then: the differences between how you were parented, and how you parent;
• Parenting in different cultures, and;
• Any other aspect of parenting/parenthood!

I'd like to give a big "thank you" to LittleRed7771, who made the suggestion for the topic, and also provided many of the topics for discussion listed above! Thanks!

As usual, please abide by all of the Great Hall and forum rules when debating/discussing (not that it should be a problem, anyway )!

This is interesting that we bring this up now, because I was sitting with some people just this past Sunday, and one person piped up and said "Young people today just don't respect their elders, noone has ever told them to 'Mind your elders!'." Now, I was a little miffed at this remark, because it is such a blatant overgeneralization, and it irks me when people do that - I find that mentality just leads to other things like racism, classism, and other forms of discrimination. So I replied, "Well, don't you think it really depends on the elders that are raising the young people? I mean to say that if the elders don't tell the young people that in the first place, where are they going to learn it from?" The gentleman agreed with me, and we all started talking about something else, which makes me wonder if I was being pedantic and obnoxious, or if he really did agree with me.

Anyway, what do you think: Is it a parents job to instill a sense of respect into children for their elders? And if it's not the parents job whose job is it?

First, I would like to say "thank you" to felix_felicis_444 and the other mod's for opening up this debate.

SpinJam, you have a very interesting and very deep question. I believe that it is the parents' responsibility to teach children about respect. However, that is not always the case. I've always believed that to have respect, you must give respect. It is a two-way street. I say this because I didn't learn respect from my parents; I learned it from my grandparents. My mother was not one whom I could learn from. She didn't give me a reason to respect her and she really didn't show me respect. My grandparents always showed me respect and in turn, I respected them. They taught me to respect my elders because the older you get, the wiser you get. Not everyone has someone in their life to learn respect from. I just got lucky with my grandparents.

I have to agree with you. You can't expect children to be born with the knowledge to respect their elders. It's something that has to be taught. It's just not everyone teaches their children that. You can't always blame the child. However, there are those children who were taught by their parents to respect others, but they chose to ignore it. It's not fair of others to generalize that statement because there are always underlying circumstances that people don't know about.

Some parents think that they will demand respect through fear. I don't agree with this tactic. They aren't teaching respect but fear. That kind of lesson teaches kids that they should respect only other people that they fear or to demand respect from others by instilling fear in them. To me that just enforces abuse, not respect.

Personally, I am trying to teach my daughter through example. I respect her and in turn ask that she respects me. I would never expect something from someone if I wasn't willing to do the same. She is taught to be respectful at other people's house. I always get rave reviews from other parents about how good she is so I must be doing something right! I just wish she was that good at home the way they describe her. Still, I'm more concerned with how she treats the outside world because she won't always be under my roof. Don't get me wrong, my daughter does respect me and it shows.

I have a hard time with some of my daughter's friends when they come over. They don't seem to show me any respect for my house and my rules. When my daughter goes to their house, she is expected to help clean up her mess. When they leave my house, it is a complete disaster. They run out the door with my daughter calling to them to help clean up. They just ignore her and keep on going. I don't know if it is because they were not taught to respect other people or that they are so tired of behaving in their own house that to go to someone else's house is a means of escape from being "good". They look to it as a vacation from rules and respect. I don't know.

When I was a kid, it was demanded that I respect other people and their houses. I wouldn't dream of breaking my friends' parents' rules. I wouldn't have been allowed back over if I did. I guess that was one thing my parents' instilled in me so I guess they must have done something right! But I don't think that came so much from respect for my parents, but a mixture of fear of the consequences if I broke the rules and respect for friends' parents which like I said before, was something my grandparents taught me.

This is wonderful...a place for parents to get or give some advice.

I have three boys, the oldest will be four next month and Im having problems with the respect thing and wanted to ask some suggestions. He is very good at home but as soon as we leave the house he changes. He starts throwing wild tantryms and he screams at the top of his longs as if someone is killing him brutally, he gets abusive to me and his smaller brothers hi will kick and bite or hit. Im not sure what to do. Like I said he is very well behaved while he is at home its only when we go out that this happens. These incedents have kept me from putting him in school so far. Im afraid he will hurt other children or disrespect a teacher.

I have no idea why he does this my other boys are the most wonderful boys you might ever meet (thats my bias opinion) they are happy and so well mannered its almost scary. They use please and thank you and the say yes mama to my mother. I cant get over the differences. Anyways. My mother says we were never like that when we were young and she is right I dont ever remeber meeting anyone this angry at such a young age. But I also notice more and more these days that my son is not the only one who gets abusive to his parents in public. Is this something any of you have noticed, or am I just gone off the deep end with my own troubles?

Hello *Love_me_Amortentia*. I understand how you feel. I went through a similar situation with my daughter for a few years. Before I give you my story, let me just make sure you understand that I am in no way implying anything about you and your family. I'm just giving my personal situation/experience!

My daughter started off as a sweet, loving, wonderful child. She was happy in every way. After my husband and I got divorced (which is another situation all together ), I had to enlist the help of my mother and step-father when I decided to go back to college. I knew they had their moments and fought with each other. My mother would hit my step-father during some of these fights trying to get more of a rise out of him. However, never in all my wildest dreams did I imagine them doing this in front of my daughter.

For reasons unknown to me at that point, my daughter started to become angry and violent. She started kicking, screaming, hitting, biting, all that stuff. At first, I just thought she was going through a phase brought on by my sudden absences of going to college. At first I tried handling it by talking to her, putting her in time out, little spankings on the butt. It seemed to help a little. But then it started in a roller coaster type ride. Her moods would go up and down in waves of anger and happiness.

This went on for about 2-3 years. I started thinking I was a terrible parent, and that I was to blame and had done something wrong. I thought it may have stemmed back from the reason I had divorced my ex-husband. I thought about sending her to my parent's to live because I didn't think that I knew how to be a mother and raise my child. I was literally at my breaking point.

Finally, after picking up my daughter one evening after class, my daughter told me that Nana hit PeePaw and the police came while she was in the bathroom. I panicked at this point. I called my mother and demanded the truth. Apparently, they had had one of their worse fights that evening. They were yelling at each other with my mother hitting my step-father while my daughter was looking on crying. One of them called the police for some reason. When the police came to the door, my mother put my daughter in the bathroom and told her to stay there and not come out. Luckily, the police left without arresting them.

I completely lost it at that point. I told them that they almost cost me my daughter. If they had been arrested, she would have been put into protective custody because I had allowed her to be exposed to such abuse. They didn't see her again for 6 months. It was almost a year before they were allowed to keep her again. Of course, it was under the strict rule that if I ever find out they had fought in front of her again, they would never see her again.

That first 6 months after that fight were the worst 6 months I ever had with my daughter. She went into complete violence beyond reason. I couldn't control her. I had to break up with my boyfriend of 2-3 years (which we are married now ) to devote all of my attention to my daughter trying to bring her back out of that state. It was horrible.

She's almost 10 now. It took until she was almost 9 to completely get her over all that had happened. Up until then, she still had bouts of anger that we had to deal with. It took a mixture of a lot of love, attention, strict punishments for misbehaving, and rewards for good behavior (and some threats to send her to boot camp) to get her out of that roller coaster ride of emotions.

Looking at her now, you would never guess that she was once that angry and violent. She's completely happy and healthy.

Anyways, not knowing your situation, the only advice I can give is to give your child a lot of love and support and consistant strict punishments when he acts up. Seeing as how he only does this when you go out, is it possible that something may have happened that you don't know about? A babysitter? Daycare? Maybe another kid did something to him? Like I said before, I'm not implying anything. It's just with my daughter, something was happening that I didn't know about and I was blaming myself for it. I'm just trying to make suggestions.

I love this thread!! Thank You felix_felicis_444 and LittleRed7771 for starting and suggesting it!!

That is a great point SpinJam but it’s not just the parents. Look at a lot of the kids shows. What are the main plots? Kids being smarter than adults. Kids playing tricks on parents/adults. Look at “Home Alone”, “The Simpsons” (no offense el Barto ) , “That’s So Raven”…I could go on. These shows teach kids that parents/adults are stupid and kids can get around them. Why would they respect if they think adults are stupid?

As a teacher I see a lot of parents and the way they ‘teach’ their kids. Parents sometimes don’t realize that kids hear and absorb everything the parent says. I am guilty. If the parent is talking about a teacher or other adult leader and expresses their negative opinion of that person, in front of the child, the child will lose respect. Parents then don’t explain that you can have an opinion of a person but still need to show respect and don’t model it in public where the child sees it….Then there are the parents who are just blatantly hostile to any and all authority. They think that everyone is out to get them and no one deserves their respect. They teach their children, either blatantly or unintentionally to do the same.

As an ESL teacher I have an interesting view of parents. I see the parents of my students as they way we were back in the 50’s and 60’s. Parents respected the school and teachers. If kids misbehaved the parents disciplined the child. They will work with the teacher and school. It takes a village to raise a child.

At one of the schools in my area a Hispanic Kindergartener, who didn’t understand English much, was put outside with 3 other classmates to play in the portable sandbox- a practice done for years. For whatever reason, he decided to go home. He lived in a trailer park across the street (very busy main street), kitty cornered, to the school. The teacher noticed him gone the school was searched. In the meantime the school got a phone call from a motorist, telling them she had almost hit a little boy crossing the street to the TP. They went to his home and sure enough, he was there with his grandmother. The school called his mom in for a conference. When she got there and found out what had happened, she chastised the child, apologized to the staff for the trouble the child had caused and probably tanned his hide when they got home.

What would the American mother have done? She would have blamed the teacher and school and probably sued everyone involved. Which one would teach respect to the child?

*Love_me_Amortentia* I also have 3 sons. My oldest (who is now 13) tried pitching fits in stores. I walked away. I would not tolerate that behavior. I would explain that I said no and if he kept it up I would say ‘bye’ and walk away. As soon as I got out of sight he would stop and come running, usually promising to behave. I still do that with my youngest but he is much more headstrong than the oldest was/is. He will come up to me and say ‘Mommy, a little boy is going to do what a little boy wants to do and mommy has to let him’ . I laugh and say ‘no, a little boy does what his mommy tells him’. And walk away.

It sounds like your little guy gets overwhelmed by whatever is going on. He is very comfortable at home but when he goes out he maxes out. Is there anyway you can prepare him for what is going to happen? Discuss your plans/itinerary for the outing? I usually try to explain to my almost 4 year old what the plans are. I have to do it many times because of his age. Smile and try not to get stressed yourself. That will set him off.

As far as school…he will probably be a completely different person there. I wouldn’t worry about that too much. Things will be too exciting and the teacher can probably control it. Does he go to a nursery school or pre K? perhaps something like that or regular play dates (without the brothers) might get him ready for school…


I'd better stop here before I publish a book...
Cris

You make some excellent points, Cris. That's what I love about these forums. Everyone sees things differently, and by typing your views, you get the chance to see things from all angles. It really helps to put things into perspective!

I, too, have tried the walking away trick with my kids. My daughter wasn't too much effected by it. She'd catch up to me and keep whining, crying, and begging (when she was younger, thank goodness she doesn't do it anymore). But like I mentioned before, it was a different situation due to what she had seen and gone through.

My son takes to the walking away thing very well. It helps that he has a bad case of stranger anxiety. If I try walking away, he comes running after me and tries climbing up my leg until I pick him up. He's good for a while again. But like most things, it never lasts. We usually have to do this a few times on each outing.

And you're right about the respect thing. Many TV programs generate a negative response when it comes to authority figures. Kids learn through example, and if you are setting a poor example, you can't hardly blame the child for not rising above you. I'm guilty of saying negagitve things about other people when I'm really stressed out about something or they have done something negative towards me. When I catch myself doing it, I apologize to my daughter for my behavior and explain why I said what I did and that it doesn't make it right. We should be nice to others and live by the Golden Rule. And I also stress about not saying or doing things to hurt someone else's feelings. To me, these are the beginning building blocks to teaching respect.



Hey, not all American mothers would have blamed the teacher. I for one would have disiplined my child for leaving without permission and for crossing the street (at that age).

I agree with you on not all Americans suing -sorry for the overgeneralization - but many would have. Stating the teacher should have known where the child was at all times etc. but....

The walking away from a tantrum thing probably is dependant on the child's temperament. My youngest will, now run after me and possibly appologize but still say the 'a little boy is going to do what he wants' thing. If he is really tired or cranky he will keep on. I reiterate that I said no and I am not going to listen anymore. He doesn't like it and may keep it up but I am done.

I have learned through my kids that I am one of those who needs to get the last word. This 'last word' thing leads to arguing. I can't let things go, I have to respond to my child's arguments. So that is why I tell them that I will not listen anymore. Then I have to stick to what I said. I have worked very hard to change that. It helps.

Although I would tell my little boy that I am going to 'turn my Hunter ears off' He does not like that at all. The other day I was trying to read something on the computer while he was playing with play dough. He was constantly talking and I plugged my ears so that I could concentrate. I could hear him saying 'I've turned off my Hunter ears so I can't hear you. I can't hear you. I'm not listening to you...." I had to laugh so hard at that. It didn't stop him from talking....

Cris

No problem! I have to agree that there are a lot of people out there that are looking for reasons to sue to get the "easy" money. I don't agree with that mentality at all. But, that's another topic.



You hit the nail on the head right there. Once the parent says they will or will not do something, they have to stick with it. Otherwise, kids will take it and run. Either they will think that they can say something and not stick with it because you didn't, or they will think that if they keep up the arguing/whining, you will cave eventually and they will get what they want. Consistency and sticking to your "threats" or actions by doing what you said you would do is a key factor with kids. They don't miss a beat, and if they find even the smallest crack or loophole, they are going to blow it wide open! It's amazing how smart they really are in that area.

I'm just glad my daughter finally learned that no means no and there is no point in arguing about it once the decision is made. She's extremely book smart, but I really wonder about her common sense sometimes.

Okay, time to brag up my daughter a little! She started reading at 22 mths old. At 24 mths, she taught herself to write her own name. She has been doing amazing things like that all her life. I swear I don't know where she has learned half of what she knows. In kindergarden, she was the one kids went to if they wanted a story read. By the beginning of first grade, she was testing out at 5th-7th grade levels in her subject. I ended up taking her out of public school and put her in a church school because they worked at a higher level than public. Things went fine for a couple of years.

When I had my son, I had to pull her out and put her back in public school because we couldn't afford church school with me being a stay-at-home parent. She was so far ahead of the other kids it was ridiculous. After a couple of weeks, she refused to do her "busy work" because she thought it was just too babyish and boring. This resulted in her getting 0's for her assignments. I tried disciplining her at home and the teacher tried taking away some of the "fun" activities to give her time to do her work. Nothing worked. When it came test time, she stepped up and made 100's. I ended up pulling her out of school completely and I homeschool her now.

As a result, she is doing great. We were able to advance her a grade to get her a little closer to her actual level. I have to say, the first year was rough. She fought with me every step of the way. I would make her sit in her chair until her work was done. She has been known to stay in that spot for 10-12 hours (of course she had potty and food breaks). Finally, after her friends told her how lucky she was and how they wished they could be homeschooled, she finally straightened up. It also took some threats along the way to send her to her Nana's for a while or to boot camp, but she came around. The second year was wonderful. She did everything she was supposed to and beautifully. We are able to do so much more with homeschool without the restricitions of the public school system. She's been blossoming and growing at an even faster rate (educational wise).

One day she will end up having to go back public school and I dread that day. With all the drugs and everything kids are exposed to these days, it's scary. I don't want my child exposed to it if I can help it, but I know the day will come eventually. I just hope she is mature enough to know what to do when it does happen. I've been drilling it into her head since she was really young about staying away from drugs because they are bad for you and can kill you. I just hope it is enough. She tends to be a follower, and I'm afraid of the peir pressure thing with her friends. Has anyone out there had any experience with dealing with their kids and being exposed to drugs? I'm just curious how others are preparing their kids just to make sure I am doing enough before it is to late and I realize that I didn't prepare her properly.

Laura

I wish I could homeschool. I know so many families that do and the kids do so much better. Unfortunalty we are not at a place financially for that to happen. I envy you.

Cris

I must admit I'm really enjoying reading your ongoing conversation about parenting. It's interesting to read how others deal with their kids since there's just so many possibilities.

In felix_felicis_444's post, it was stated that you could give the teenage perspective, so I'm just warning you all that that's exactly what I plan on giving. I'll start with some need to know information about my family that might help bring methods to my maddness.

My mother had me when she was just 17 years old. She was an honor student who made an awful "mistake" so to speak. My grandmother and great grandmother raised me throughout my childhood while my mom was going to college to become a teacher, along with working, dating, and partying. I should probably also add that my father didn't stick around longer than to hear that my mom was pregnant, and also long enough to buy a plane ticket as far away as possible. (I'm assuming)

As I said I was raised by my grandmothers who still do whatever they can to help me out. I am a gifted student. I owe everyhting to my grandmothers for entrusting me with as much knowledge as they possible could during my formative years. My great grandma is who I should thank the most for that because without her I don't know how I'd get along, has acted as a mother to me... however she's not exactly the angel I tend to say she is. With all of what she gives comes with much critcism and more. I was raised seeing her constantly fighting with my mother about everything she's done wrong. I was also the only one that my she got to see, so she would always vent off what she had to say to me (whether I wanted to hear it or not). This brings up my first point (yes, I'm actually making one! ). I can honestly say that one of the hardest things to hear as a child is another family member constantly 'bashing' your other family members. It's not something that one person should have to hear, and growing up that's exactly what I listened to, day after day.
That is just a point I really would like to make because it's somewhat haunted me for years. However to discuss younger children to go along with the current conversation, I have an endless supply of comments as well.

I should also go ahead and state that my mom remarried about 6 years ago and had my little sister Megan. She's been a stay at home mom all of Megan's life, and is severly ruining my sister's life. She's spoiled that child so badly, and my theory is because to her Megan is th first child she's really gotten to raise.
Anyways... So I'll go along sometimes to the store with them, and Megan throws her little fits to the point where she always comes home from the store with a new toy. When she's with me, she doesn't get away with anything of the sort. I approach her in a completely different tone and stature than my mother does. I calmly but firmly tell her that acting that way will get her nowhere. I progress so much further when I discipline her than my mother. Her approach is to yell and rarely continue with punishments. This all is a point in itself. I think that a lot of the disciplinary problems with most children is the parent's approach.

Ok I'll shut up now about my crazy theories.

I would like to quickly relate myself to your daughter LittleRed. I had the same problems through my schooling where I would just get bored with the work. In my school district however, we have a gifted program where the childs' imagination and abilities are utilized to the extreme. If you have any such program available I would highly suggest checking into it! It's great that you've made progress with your daughter by homeschooling. Homeschooling certainly has it's many positive points which could almost be a topic in itself! *runs to suggest it*

Ok well now that I've most likely rambled on to the point of scaring others away, I'll take my leave.
~Ashley

Ashley, we also have the gifted program here in our public school system. The problem is, our program here is more of a jock than anything else. The kids get out of class for a couple of hours a week and just expand a little on things they don't necessarily learn in regular classes. I have friends who have kids in the program and they aren't really happy about it at all. The kids really don't do a whole lot more. I think they mainly socialize with the other kids. It wouldn't have been much of a help for my daughter. She would have enjoyed the extra "title" given to her, but it wouldn't have changed the fact that she was bored in class and refused to do her work.

Also, I'm glad to see that you have learned from your mother's "mistakes". You are gaining a valueable lesson by realizing that putting your foot down with small ones and not letting them control you goes a lot further that giving in to the whining. Unfortunantely, your little sister is going to suffer in the long run if your mother doesn't take a firmer stand against her. At least when you have kids, you will have first-hand experience in the situation.

As for parents or family members arguing or discussing the other's "flaws" in front of kids is absolutely wrong. Not only does it set a bad example (which kids learn by example), it is setting a negative effect against those family members and how you view others. My story of my daughter was in the previous post and that became a nightmare. I'm thankful I was able to "repair the damage" before it became permanent. At least I hope I did. She seems completely better now.

Personally, I had a somewhat traumatic experience when I was younger. At least it was to me at the time. My parents were going through a divorce and were fighting for custody. I wanted to live with my father because I really had little respect for my mother. Both of them at some point during the divorce turned to me and said that the only reason the other one wants me is for the child support money. Talk about a major blow. I felt as if neither of my parents loved me. I ended up with my mother which turned out better because my father married some woman who looked at me as if I was a reminder of his past which she didn't want him to have anything to do with it. I think I was also a reminder to her of my mother. My mother tried ruining their relationship/marriage before it had a chance to get started. So, they severed ties with her and as a result, severed ties with me. I didn't here from my father for about 10 years. Finally, we got back together under the strict orders that my mother doesn't get involved which is perfectly fine with me. I since talked to him about what he and my mother said to me and he apologized for it. He realized it was wrong. I can't remember if my mother ever apologized or not, but I wouldn't expect her to. She's just that way.

Parents really need to be careful about what they say in front of kids. We don't know how the kids will interpret things and what kind of emotional "damage" it will do. I have to say that I have been guilty of saying things about my mother in front of my daughter. I catch myself and explain the situation to her. I tell her that I love my mother despite her persona, but sometimes I just get frustrated with her. I then go on to tell her that she shouldn't repeat any of it to her because it might hurt her feelings. I'm not sure if that's much better, but she does understand that we shouldn't say things to other people if it might result in hurting their feelings. She seems to be really in tuned to other people and always tries to be nice even when others are being mean. She has the sweetest personality. I must have done something right along the way!

My views on parenting........hmmm!

I have 3 kids, aged 21, 17 (nearly 18) and 10. We have had a very different way of parenting to our post war parents. Our way is far more relaxed and yes they get away with far more than we ever did. At the end of the day it's not about discipline and shouting the odds. It's about respect...mutual respect. And about setting boundaries. draw the line from the get go. Explain how and why, when the line has been crossed. Discuss things when they don't agree. When they get older, be flexible with the boundaries. You can't expect a 21 year old to behave the same as a 10 year old, but the same level of respect is expected no matter how old.

We make mistakes, big ones, but the relationships we have with our kids is such, that we can rewind and start again. Call family pow wows if you have to. We do. In this modern society, where everyone ahs someplace to be, we have one day a week when the whole family sits at the dinner table to eat and talk. This is flexible, my kids have friends so if this weeks day is say..Sunday and one of them arranges to go out, then dinner day is moved to another day.

Never fight in front of your kids...I have done it, it has a bad affect...haven't done it again!

Don't try to be their best mates...they have best mates, they want best parents. Always be possitive. Don't say no! I always say things are possible so long as it hasn't had to be argued or fought for.

Most of all do listen. There's nothing worse than not listening to their point of view. It makes them feel that what that have to say is less important than what you have to say, and that's just not true. I have had some very funny and very moving conversations with my kids.

I could go on all day. I mean I have had my kids for 21 years. I'm not perfect, in fact, I'm rubbish at this job. Babies don't come with a handbook, well if they do the pages are blank!!

Well, I remember when I was a kid and my parents always said, "Because I said so." That used to burn me up. I was always a good kid and hardly ever got into trouble. If I did something once and got in trouble for it, I never did it again. I was easy to raise. My mother has paid me one compliment in my life which she has repeated several times so I guess she thinks she has paid me lots of compliments. Anyways, it was that if all kids were like me when it came to raising and growing up, she would have had lots of me. She said that I was "perfect" or at least as close as you can be. My goal was to please and make people happy. I guess it was my way of coping for the things that happened to me when I was young. Maybe I thought that if I was good and stayed out of trouble, things would be okay for me and I would finally receive some attention from my parents.

Anyways, the point I was getting at. I couldn't stand hearing "because I said so". If I was such a good kid, why couldn't they just explain their reasons and tell me the truth. I told myself then that when I had kids, I would do my best to give them a reason and not use the said so thing. I have done a good job sticking to the plan. There have been times when I have used the said so statement, but it was as a last resort. As I said before, my daughter is extremely smart. I would tell her no, explain why, and she would question me. I would try to explain some more, and she would come back with her own arguments against my reasoning and ask another question as to why. This would go on as long as I had a response. When I ran out of things to say, that is when I would resort to the "because I said so". I swear, she would make a great lawyer. She can really argue her case. She wouldn't always do this, but when she did, I had to be alert and ready.

Some people might not agree to my methods of explaining things and that kids should just do what a parents says without a reason, but I think it comes back to respect. How can you expect your kids to respect you if you don't respect them. When my parents didn't tell me why, I felt like they didn't respect me or think highly enough of me to explain things. I didn't want my kids thinking that way about me. I feel they deserve to know why I say no to certain things. Once I have done that, and my daugher accepts my reasoning, she understands and there is a better chance she will obey because she knows why it is the way it is.

Wow!...This thread is moving along nicely.

I have to say thanks at first I thought I was going to get answers like you are doing something wrong. Im sorry I underestamated the people here.

I also wanted to say thanks for sharing your experieces. It brings alot into perspective, and it helps me as a parent to have some ideas at how thing could be handeled differently. There are lots of things to think about when you have children and extreamly nice to have someone to share and talk things through with. I dont have anything to add to the current topic. Im going to put some of these suggestions into action...Ill be back hopefully with some updates and Im sure some more question or suggetions. You all are wonderful.

Frankie

With my first child I started the explainations as to why I was saying no to something also the 'no, no, honey, that might kill you.' etc. It made him inquisitive and now I pay for it. I get the endless questions like LittleRed said.

There are times when a "No!" has to stand alone, without explaination.

It drives me to no end when that 'No!' is questioned even after I indicate that there will be no explaination.

We need to give our kids as much information as we can so that they can survive in this world however, we also need that parental authority.

etphonehome (sorry, I am terrible remembering names ) has it all right as far as I'm concerned. You are not the child's friend, you are a parent, a guide. You cannot be nice all the time. You cannot even be fair much of the time. You have to be the adult, know it, and explain it as best as you can.

You also do what you have to to make it work. I used to hate parents who counted. You know "I said stop it now! one.....two...." Guess what? I count now. My third child, as I've said he is different from the other two has to be counted to. The tacticts I used with the others don't work for him. He get's to the count of three and then gets swatted. I don't get beyond two 98% of the time. Usually if I get to 3 and have to swat him, there is something else wrong, like he's tired or not feeling well. Then I have to find out what's wrong and take care of that.


Part of loving them is figuring out how to help them with their travel through life, making a plan, sticking to it and loving them, no matter what.

Cris

You definitely made a very good point, Cris. Every child is different and it takes different methods for each child. What works for one may not necessarity work for another. What makes things even more complicated is when one method works for a while, but all of a sudden, it doesn't work anymore. Then you have to scramble and regroup to figure out which method will work now.

And I agree, sometimes a child has to know when "No" means "No" and there is no explanation or reason why. My daughter has learned by the look on my face when she is not to question me. During such times, she does what she is told without a word.

My daughter knows that sometimes there are rules that are for her safety. They are not intended to be "mean" to her but to keep her safe. And she completely understands those. Just yesterday, I told her that I may extend her privileges when she turns 10 if she keeps up her behavior and takes care of her responsibilities without having to be told. She will be given a little more freedom in our neighborhood like being able to ride her bike inside the subdivision without me or my husband. Right now, she is limited to our street and one other. I figured if she keeps proving herself, she deserves the extra privilege of 3 more streets. She also knows that if she messes up, it will be taken away. I've always felt that if the child proves themselves responsibile, they should be trusted with more freedom/privileges (of course within reason). She knows the rules I have in place which are for her safety, and so far she has stuck with them. Even if her freedom is expanded, those rules will still apply and she knows that.

Oh, and Frankie, I hope things work out with your son. Please let us know how it goes. Cris had some really great ideas and I'm sure one or more of them will help.

Laura

That'll be Elaine

I forgot something...the naughty step...don't bother! Been there done that got the t'shirt, it don't work, trust me.

I tried it with the youngest. She used to make such a fuss about stepping on the botton stair in every house, shop you name it. She would scream that she couldn't step on the naughty step when she'd been good! Poor thing, I almost traumatised her for life. Well maybe not, she's laughs when I remind her now, but at the time.......

Ofcourse this may work for some of you, just not for me...or trying to reason with a 9 year old that doesn't want to go to bed. I got tired of running up and down stairs saying over and over get back into bed. So I stopped, she said I'm not tired I'm not going to sleep, and I said fine then, do as you please. She said she was going to read and was fast asleep within 5 minutes. I've never pushed bedtime since and she goes to bed much earlier and we are far more relaxed in the evenings for it.

I am not a parent, so I don't know if it's okay that I post here. I teach teenagers who have problems in school. And when you have this job it is always about listening to them and helping them handle their problems. So I don't just teach them how to write an essay.

That can sometimes be a problem. I am mostly a friend who listens (because sadly enough, many of my students don't have parents to listen) but I'm also responsible for their progress in school, so we also have to do some work. I tell them and then they ask me over and over again why they have to do this. I try to êxplain and sometimes it works, but then they ask again and again because they just want to distract me. And sometimes they're openly rude to me telling me that they're my boss and they decide what we'll do during the lesson.

I've been doing this job for three years now and I learned a lot. When it comes to teenagers they actually want you to set the boundaries, and then they try to trick you and then the whole game starts all over again. The sad fact is, they do that because often their parents don't even care for them, they don't care what they do as long as they're out of their way. And then they come to me, and I care, and I want them to succeed and I know what they're doing and I am strict and I tell them no, or what to do, and they're happy. They're glad someone's guiding them, someone's seeing them. And someone is also there when they make a mistake (and every mistake is a lesson for life) and helps them find a solution.

My point is that it's okay to be strict,and it is really important to see them and not just let them do what they want. They're teenagers in this strange world, with enormous pressure from their peers and sometimes they just want to have someone to tell them what to do.

I only speak for teenagers here, not for small children, I don't teach those.

I hope it was okay for me to post.

Olivia

Olivia, of course it is okay for you to post. You don't have to be a parent to post here. We also welcome teenagers to share their views, or in your case, someone in a position such as yourself with experience in "kids" as well. It's all about coming together and sharing your experiences and views so others can see things from other people's perspectives. What you might have to say could be of help to someone else looking for help and guidance.

Your right about kids needing guidance, and sometimes they crave the boundaries set by other's because it shows someone cares. To me, when a parent doesn't set boundaries for their child but lets them do whatever they want whenever they want, they don't care a whole lot about their child's safety or well-being, not to mention their future. Of course, I'm not going to lump everyone who does that into the same category. There are exceptions to every rule. Besides, that is just my opinion. Anyways, when a child comes to you wanting you to set them limits, it seems they are craving a parent figure that they seem to be lacking at home. However, there are those kids who need that from whomever they come in contact with. So although they get that attention at home, they need it in every aspect of their lives. It's good that you are there for those kids and they can come to you. I'm sure when you do have kids of your own, you will have had plenty of experience and do a wonderful job.

Anyways, please feel free to post again if you have more thoughts or experiences to share.

Laura

Olivia these are for you:

You are wonderful! What you do is incredible.

Laura is right. Please let us here your experiences and opinions. I have a 13 year old and it is a whole different ball game. I am no longer omniscient, omniptent etc. Now I have to prove it and do other things to maintain my power.

I posted on the Oldies thread an episode with my son. I was so mad at him and he was pushing me so far...he said to me 'what are you going to do, spank me?' oh man was I mad. I grabbed the phone and said 'two things are going to happen. I'm going to beat you, then I'm going to give you the phone because jail looks really good to me right now. No laundry, no cooking, no bratty kids, no husband, small room to clean, plenty of time to read and lose weight.' At that point I meant it too. He realized that and back into his room and shut the door. Now all I have to do is say 'Jail's looking good' and he backs off.

He really pushes those buttons. He's testing the boundries and I'm not giving in. I've already told him he wont drive until I say it's ok. I've told him he wont be driving my cars, he will have to get one, maintain it and pay gas and insurance. I plan on him getting a 74 Chevy Subruban. He wont be able to afford gass and it's a tank so I wont worry about him getting hurt.

My point is teens are a whole different animal, tougher and can hurt you!

Cris

Parenthood...Hmm this is a very intersting topic indeed. I am a parent of two kids, 13 year old Jud and six year old Jenna. Those two kids are as different as night and day. When my son was a small child he was the best kid in the world, he taught himself to read by te time he was two years old. When he entered kindergarten he tested on a fifth and sixth grade level on most subjects (except math which is average at). He is a gifted kid but he also has a downfall with his gifted ability, he suffers from Aspergers Syndrome, a functioning form of Autism. It has been very sad in the last 3 years to watch my son suffer from this. He gets picked on at school cause other kids don't understand him or his illness, he is so smart the other kids just don't get him at all. It actually breaks my heart to see him suffer so. He tries to stay busy with band, but he told me last month that he is not happy with it and wants to quit. Due to the lack of social skills that Aspergers' kids suffer from, he is not the "popular kid" and has a hard time making friends. Unfortunately this illness is a life long struggle for those afflicted with it, there is no cure. We work through every day a little bit at a time, hopefully one day Jud will be able to learn the social skills that he is lacking.

Now my daughter Jenna is a whole different bundle of joy. From the time she was about 2 years old, she would throw temper tantrums, bite, spit and also hit my son. She is six now but she still acts like that mean little 2 year old. I used to attribute it to her "father" spoling her and giving her whatever she wanted. He would always buck up against me whenever it came to discipling Jenna. I would tell her no she could not do that and he would turn around and let her by with it. In her kindergarten year she was sent to the principal's office 3 times! They sent letters home to me and said one more trip and she would be suspended. She has even gotten into fights on the school bus with jr. high and high school students. I blame some of this behavior on myself, but her father is alot to blame also.

Right now Jenna's father and I are going through a divorce and it's not looking pretty. Whenever Jenna is not around him for extended periods of time, she is quite anjelic. If she is around him for even a few hours she a terror. Another thing that I feel might contribute to some of my daughter's behavior is the fact that her father and I used to fight alot (never physical abuse, mostly yelling). I don't know if that contributes to it or not, but it makes me wonder.

Like I said both of my kids are complete opposites of one another. Someone once told me that kids that are spread far apart in years get along better than those born close to each other, not in my two's case. Jenna usually instigates the fights and then whenever Jud sticks up for himself and pokes her back she tattles. I don't know if this is just the way kids are or what.

As far as teenagers go I feel that I will have alot harder of a time from Jenna as a teen than I will with Jud.

Marcey

Awesome thread!

I have two children ages 6 1/2 and almost 2. A boy and girl each and they are so different. Before I get into that I should say that I have always been a single parent...not exactly the plan but hey...that's life. I have had amazing support though from my family so it is not exactly like I am in a strange city with no job or medical and such. I do okay for myself.

Anyways, where I wanted to go with this is that when I had my son, I was 24 and thought I was ready to be a parent. gosh is anyone ever ready? It wasn't like my perfect baby boy popped out with his own instruction manuel. Being that he was so cute, it was hard for me not to give in to every whim he ever wanted as he got older. This definately led to some issues with control as he went through the terrible twos through 4!

The funny think is that five years later I still half expected an instruction manuel to pop out with my beautiful daughter. I know, get a clue right? But she was just so different from my boy and I really had no clue. Actually she is a lot like me and that makes her cute manipulations easier to spot and deal with.

The hard thing about being a single parent is that at some point we have to leave our babies with another caregiver whether it be a family member or a daycare or whatever. The inconsistencies in discipline and eating habits and such make that so hard for a single parent to combat. At some point I needed to sit everyone down who watched my kids and set them straight so to speak. I made sure they understood that I was their mother and what I said goes. If they couldn't abide by my way of doing things, they didn't have to watch my kids...well family doesn't like being kept away from grandkids and stuff so basically they consented. It hasn't been perfect but better.

I became a single mother myself for about 5 or so years. Unfortunantely, my daughter went through her tough time during this single stage. My previous posts explain what happened so I won't go into it again. Anyways, I felt like all I ever did was discipline her. We hardly ever had the good, happy quality time together. Since I was single, I couldn't rotate the discipline with someone else so it all fell on me. Finally, I had to learn to choose my battles. I picked the important behavior that had to be dealt with and let the others slide. Life became a little nicer to where we got to enjoy each other sometimes in between those disruptive bouts.

When she was able to control her behavior for a week straight, I would reward her with popcorn and a movie night camping out in the living room. She loved doing this. I would let her pick out the movie while I got the goodies ready. I have to say though, now that I'm remarried and have a son, we don't do that nearly as often as we used to. It's probably a tradition we ought to pick up again. But since her behavior is so much better, it would just be for a treat and not a reward.

Anyways, after I was able to get the worst behavior under control, I had to go back and correct the behavior that I let slide during those times. It all worked out in the end, but I don't envy those having to do it alone. I'm so thankful I have someone in my life now that can help carry some of the load. I commend you, nevillesgirl, for being able to do it on your own. I know it isn't easy. But, it is so rewarding at the same time!

I also understand about the childcare thing. It took me forever to get my daughter potty-trained because the place she was going to didn't help. Finally, I was able to get her into a home-based childcare where the lady only had 6 kids. She stepped right in and helped me with the potty-training. Within the week, no more diapers!! Also, being in a home-based childcare reduced her illnesses. It seemed like every other week in a regular daycare I was having to take her to the doctors. At the home-based one, I think I had to take her to the doctors twice in a couple of years. It's hard being a single parent having to take off from work all the time to take your child to the doctor and then having to stay home until she is better. You can't make money that way, and when you are the only one making the money, something else doesn't get paid like food or bills. It's tough. And the daycares won't let you skip a payment just because your child isn't there. You have to pay it no matter what or lose your space.

My kids are completely different as well. Where my daughter is so book smart steming back to when she started reading at 22 mths, my son is mechanically smart. At three months old, he figured out how to use his foot to get behind his "hanging" toy and pull it towards him so he could reach it with his hands. He builds and stacks things in a mechanical type way. It's hard to explain, though. You'd have to see it. He gets his mechanical ability from his daddy! There's no doubt about that. Where my daughter was always calm as a baby and never messed with things that weren't hers, my son is off the charts active and into everything he can get his hands on which includes things that he climbs up to reach. I have yet to figure out how he hasn't broken anything yet. He's had plenty of busted lips, but that's about it. So, with my daughter being hyper and active now, I'm hoping my son will be calm and relaxed when he gets older. One can only hope!

Oh, and nevillesgirl, if you ever do find an instructions manual, can you get me a copy as well? It would definitely help.

Laura

Oh wow. this thread is awesome...
Well I have two girls, Diana aged 7 and Flora almost 4. They are growing up in a quite different way than their little friends, because we are Pagan witches in a Catholic country and this produces new issues almost every day...I must say that they're happy with what they've got with us and they're very smart and loving beings.
One of the things I love most of them is the fact that they're able to be themselves even in very stressful situations, like, classmates who hit them, or yell at them. They are very calm although vivacious, and they don't use violence...they don't answer to kicks with other kicks and this is exactly the message I wanted to convey.

Recently I had a little discussion with the oldest girl's teacher, who wrote on her final evaluation -that was A+ anyway- that my girl needs to work better at home on her homework. But I'm a teacher too and I don't find it appropriate to give pages and pages of homework to such a little girl. I am a teacher who work in class, and almost never gives homeworks.
I think that children should PLAY in the afternoon, after 5/6 hours at school studying and concentrating. One of the reasons why children are so stressed is that they have too many responsibilities and too many adult-like engagements during the week. Let them play...I am happier if my daughter writes a story on her own, draws the illustrations and reads it to the whole family.
I know it may sound weird but...that's how I see things.

Enough for now, I'm going to bed...I'll read all your messages tomorrow! Happy to see so many familiar faces around.

Clara )O(

Amanda brought up a great point about child care outside the house. That is another BIG difference between my first two sons and my last. It took me a little while to realize it and adjust.

My first two were with one of us almost all the time. If they weren't with us they were with my husband's parents. We do things almost alike so it was good. If I had to find daycare it was an in home thing, usually with friends or neighbors. The one I had on recommendation from my former sitter was aweful. It was her sister- in - law and the woman was stupidder than a brick (pardon the roughness but it was true- I breastfed and had a 2 month old - she had a boy just a month older. I told her his milk need to be heated up - she was too lazy to do it. I came in at the end of an 8 hour day and she said 'oh thank God, I haven't been able to get him to eat anything all day!' the bottle was cold, she was trying to give it to him out of the fridge. That's how she fed her son. I explained again. She did it again when my husband came to get him, she was trying to give him a cold bottle....she didn't last long).

Anyway, my youngest goes to a Mexican lady. She does things VERY differently. They eat at different times. She doesn't make him take a nap. Discipline is different.

He has been going to her since he was 2 months old. She is his other mother. The are his family also and take him to parties and on trips once in a while. He speaks Spanish and loves the food. Things are working out but I had to adjust to things. Perhaps this is why he is so different form the other two.

Other peoples values and habits can greatly influence your kids. Make sure you explain the things that are most important to you. The things you don't want to budge on. Meal times and nap times are not as important as discipline, morals and behaviour. Make sure you ask questions like 'when did he eat -and how much. When did he sleep etc.'

If you are a control freak then find a way to stay home

Cris

Well, I for one am a control freak when it comes to my kids. That might also be why my oldest went to several daycares before settling with the in-home child care.

The first daycare I took her to only lasted 1 day. When I dropped my daughter off, everything was fine. By the time I got there to pick her up, she was running a terrible fever. Now, I didn't blame the daycare for the fever. What I did blame them for was that they never even noticed. I took one look at my daughter from across the room and noticed something was wrong. It was in her eyes. As soon as I touched her, I could feel her burning up. If the daycare had even paid the slightest attention to her, they would have seen her expression and her eyes, or if they had at least picked her up to change a diaper, they would have felt her. I left that evening and never looked back.

Another place I went to I never even left my daughter there for even one day. I took one look at the place and ran for it. The place was dirty with broken toys all over the place. All of the kids had runny, snotty noses and the workers weren't even bothering to wipe them clean. The place had a weird smell to it as well.

I'm sooo thankful that I have been able to be a stay-at-home mom for my son. The lady who ran the in-home child care is no longer in business. She got her real-estate license and is working for a real-estate office making a lot more money. There aren't any more places like that around here and I wouldn't have been able to stand taking my son to one of the regular day cares. Not only because of my past experiences with them but also because we've had several instances around here with young kids my son's age getting left in a childcare van during the heat of the day resulting in death. It's just absolutely horrible. I know that all places aren't like that, but I still wouldn't have been comfortable. I'd have been a nervous wreck all day until I picked him up.

Cris, I think it's really neat that your youngest has been going to a Mexican lady and learning to speak Spanish and all. And your right, as long as the main values are upheld, the little things don't matter as much. He is receiving a very valuable lesson that he will carry with him all his life. And you know he is safe so you have peace of mind. I would think that the difference in discipline would be hard to deal with, but I guess as long as your son knows your rules and abides by them when he is at home then it's okay.

There is one draw back with me being a stay-at-home mom for my son. He hates to be apart from me. When I drop him and my daugher off with a baby-sitter, he goes on hunger strike. He refuses to eat and hardly drinks. He sulks or sleeps practically the whole time. It's heartbreaking to see him do this to himself. My husband tried for the first time to take him with him to the store to give me a little quiet time. As soon as he tried to buckle him in, he pitched an absolute fit crying for me. He had never been somewhere without me before. My husband can't handle the stress when my son acts this way. He freaks out and doesn't know what to do. His stress level isn't very tolerable when it comes to screaming kids. So, I ended up having to go to keep my son and my husband happy. I realize that we are going to have to start getting my son used to it or we will pay dearly for it later on along with my son suffering for it. I was thinking about putting him into preschool at either 3 or 4 y.o. to start getting him adjusted to separation and prepared for school. Only problem there is I'll end up having to go back to work to pay for it. It's not easy finding a job that revolves around school times.

I speak Spanish too. I was born in PR and lived there for the first 3 years of my life. Most of my babysitters were SPanish speakers so I had an ear for it. I didn't speak it until I was in Junior High. I want him to have more than that. He is almost 4 and speaks Spanish well.

With your son, yeah, your going to want to take baby steps (no punn intended). You could always take him to a pre K that operates 2-3 times a week and start out by volunteering. Then you can slowly disappear until he is ok with you dropping him off.

As far as the baby sitter thing, yeah, been there. It wont last for ever. If you had to make it permenant he would not kill himself. After a few days he would realize that this is how it is and be all right with it.

Kids are so resiliant and survival motivated.

Cris

You're right. Kids are absolutely resilient. It's amazing sometimes just how much! I've also been trying to start the baby steps in separating myself from my son. He has spent the night with my parents (under strict ground rules that they are to behave themselves with no arguments) along with my daughter to keep an eye on things and help out. She also goes along so my son has somewhat of a security of having his sister there as a familiar face. He freaks out with my mother more than anyone else. My husband says that he must sense the "evil", in a joking manner, of course! My mother is a bit controlling to say the least. But anyways, he doesn't eat for them and sleeps all the time even with my daughter there and he absolutely loves his big sissy! I don't know how but somehow he even refrains from going to the bathroom. I dropped him off at around 4 or 5 last time and he didn't go to the bathroom until around that time the next day. He loves my great grandmother, though, but she is too old to keep him herself. I just wish there was an easier and less traumatic way of doing this.

Anyways, change of subject. I remember when my daughter was my son's age and taking her to childcare. Some of the other kids would say "mommy" and my daughter would turn to them and reply, "That's my mommy, not yours!" It didn't matter if they were talking to me, to their own mother, or no one at all. She responded the same way everytime. I always thought it was sooo cute, but I also wondered why she had to justify that piece of information. Could it have been because she noticed the absence of my ex-husband and was afraid of losing me as well so she had to make sure she laid claim to me? This went on for like over a year. I guess until she became comfortable with the knowledge that I wasn't going to abandon her. Has anyone else had their child do this? I'm just curious.

Laura

My youngest, Hunter does it with me too. It's getting better the older he gets but he would get very upset if someone else was sitting with me, hugging me or the like. My middle boy, Danny, still needs 'mommy time' but Hunter gets very upset. Danny says 'my mommy' and hunter insinutates himself and says 'no, my mommy!' They get into shoving and arguing. When I held a baby, look out!!! but now it's not so bad.

He is very clingy but I made him that way. When he was a baby, he was my last and a 'miracle' at that, so I kept him with me and did for him all the time. Now he comes to me first and usually wont let any else do for him. I have been actively breaking that little habit. Of course he waits until I've just sat down for a rest or the computer before he gets demanding .

On the other hand he is very independant. I guess you could call him an enigma. Independant when I don'g want him to be and clingy when I don't want him to be.....poor kid, he can't win.

Cris

Gosh, I am trying to understand what it is like to have a child who clings and needs mommy all the time. I am trying to understand the jealousy that a child gets when mommy holds another child in her lap and a baby upon her shoulder. I just can't.

My two children, thanks to God are pretty contented kids. It has always been just me so I have been dropping them off at Grandma's or great grandma's or a sitter or my sister for years. They adapted well. The only time my son really had seperation anxiety is when he was about 2 years old and I would drop him off at his 2-3 sunday school class. I guess because the caregivers would change weekly he felt a little insecure and would scream tantrums that would curl your toes. I would end up staying in there for half of my church service just so he would calm down. Eventually he got to the point where he wouldn't need me in there because he was having so much fun.

My daughter is now almost two and she is such a different child. She goes right in...sets up her area...claims her territory...chooses which friends she will allow to play in her area and then goes about her business without so much as a whimper for her mother. It is so refreshing to have a child who knows that I will never leave her at this young age. Then again, it could be all the fun she has with the other kids since she is usually home alone with just grandma all day.

Okay, I need some advice from all the other parents out there. My 2 year old loves to hit. I'm sure he got it from watching us hit the dog (our 80 lb lab) whenever she had his toys in her mouth. We'd spank her to discipline her to make her drop it. They aren't her chew toys so we have to do something. We have since tried to stop ourselves from hitting the dog in front of him to maybe help stop reinforcing the hitting. But still, he loves to hit the dogs and anyone else within arms reach during his hyper moments. He's not doing it to be mean. He just thinks he is playing. But we have to get him out of this phase before it gets out of hand. He has already tried to hit a couple of kids when we have taken him to the playground. Like I said, it's not to be mean. He just thinks its a game or something. The other kids don't think it is very funny, though. We try to pop his hand when he does it, but it hasn't seemed to help. It's hard to punish hitting with hitting. Sort of defeats the purpose I think.

My oldest never went through a hitting stage so I haven't had to deal with it before. Well, at least not at this age. But that was another story I posted about a while back. How do you teach a 2 year old not to hit? I don't want him known as the mean kid or the bully. He really is such a sweet baby. He just has this one problem. Any advice?

Well LittleRed7771 I too have went down this road with my six year old Jenna. She started "hitting" others when she was in preschool. I don't know if it is because she has an older brother, my son is almost 14 and I must admit when Sis was little my son and my ex used to wrestle with her and play rough.She isn't as bad as she used to be, and I have tried everything, spanking, slapping hands and even the "naughty chair". Some things work while others don't phase her a bit. The only other thing bad she did earler this school year was beat up an 8th grader whom was messing with my son on the bus. She got in trouble for that and I told her that this was wrong and that her brother can stick up for himself.

The best advice I can give you on this situation is to tell the little one whenever he does this is that it is ugly and it's not nice to hit others. Say to him what might be "playing" to him is not neccessarily playing to others. I have told my daughter this after the bus incident, and that if she continued to do this out of spite noone would want to play with her cause they would label her a bully. It is best to enforce things like this at a young age, and your little one is at the right age for this. Hope this helps. I never had probs with my son hitting when he was small, he was a biter, I nipped that one in the bud, I bit him back once so he could see what it felt like, and he never did it again, problem solved.

Marcey

Yep, the best thing is to never hit anyone or any animal. That way, you can't be used as a negative example.

Not even dogs ever need to be hit. It's built into their natures to want to please. Usually a stern look while saying their name will do it.

Marcey, I have to admit, I did the same thing. It sounds so mean now. The first time James slapped me, I slapped him back. I told him I did it to show him that it hurt, and it was not a good way to try to get what he wanted, and that it would never work, so he may as well not do it anymore. And he never did--though he did get in some fights in fifth grade, with bullies who never knew when to leave off. So...I don't know. *sigh* Did I teach him anything?

I think you've done well by James, Darcy....Isn't he in college this year?I have tried to teach Jenna that it is not nice to hit, and she was provoked by the 8th grader who was messing with Jud, so she did what she thought was natural, she retaliated and beat the kid up! Now imagine the humiliation that 8th grader has to endure from classmates, getting pounded not only by a kindergartner, but a girl at that! I know Sis meant well in defending her big brother, but it embarrased him greatly...

After that I told Jenna that this was not appropriate behavior and it is not to happen again. Bless my daughter's heart she is having a really hard time dealing with me being gone, and frankly it's starting to get to me as well. She is having alot of behavior probs right now you know with my ex basically abandoning her and all, she does not understand why her "Daddy" does not come around anymore or want anything to do with her
Its sad really, it breaks my heart, I feel as if I'm helpless to do anything *sniff*

Marcey

Yep, my 'baby' starts college in just about 2 weeks. He's going to study engineering. All in all, I think he turned out really well. But we lucked out, he and I--we've always been very alike in temperament and humor. I don't know how it would have been if he were a lot more unlike me!

LittleRed, I do think your son will grow out of the hitting habit. It's seldom something that lasts--especially if he has a stable home life with loving parents. Just keep explaining to him why it is wrong--kids take in what they can take in for where they are emotionally. I've always felt it's really important to relate to children as reasonable creatures--that way they feel they are and act it. OF course, the twos and threes are hard for that!

Marcey, that's got to be so hard--I can't even imagine having to spend so much time away from one's kids. Especially when you know they're having a hard time of it and you want to be there.

Yes Darcy it is very rough being away right now, I wish that there was something I could do to make it all better for my kids *sigh* it gets so hard at times. Not being there for them when they are sick or scared...I know they will do just fine it just takes some adjustment for the kids. My son and daughter start school tomorrow, Jud's in 8th grade and Sis is in 1st grade..I'm sad that I won't be there to spend time with them this year. When I come off of my military mission next June my son will be going into High School

Marcey

Thanks to both of you for the advice. I know he isn't doing it to be mean so I'm not as worried about it right now, but I certainly don't want it to develop into that.

Marcey, although you have to be away from your kids, I bet they are extremely proud of you and what you are doing. I commend you for that. I bet it is extremely difficult and couldn't begin to imagine the heartbreak you are feeling by your absence. But when you get home, they will be waiting for you with open arms with all the love and respect they could possibly hold. You are setting them a great example, and you are someone they can look up to. That's something to be proud of.

Laura

Thanks Laura That is a word of encouragement...For those of you who have never been away from your children for an extended period of time, take it from me it is very difficult I never thought it would be this hard to stay away from my kids for this long, it is harder than I could have ever imagined. The only bad thing about me being gone this long now is that when I go home next June I may have to go overseas to Iraq! Now that will be hard on me and them. At least where I am at now I am in the same country as them, but we will wait and see.

I have always adapted and been able to overcome situations in my life I guess this one will be no different... Thanks again Laura!

Marcey

~And there is the issue with being a single parent...at least for me. I have considered seriously joining the Reserves (military) so I could make a transfer to active duty and have better means to support my children. The trade off is more then I can take. I have been unable to leave my children to be raised by someone else and that stops me from enlisting every time. I have so much respect for those in our countries Armed Forces but more so for the single parents who continue to struggle through their jobs and raising their children.

Children are amazingly resilient though and while it may be difficult for a while on both of you, kids adapt fairly well. If your kids are older they may have more of an understanding and that may help.

Right now my 2 year old girl can't even understand when I shut the bathroom door on her for privacy...she doesn't like to be away from mommy. I never had this seperation anxiety with my son. He was very independent to the point of almost making me feel like I wasn't needed at times. This clingy thing my girl does is so foreign to me.

Take Care,
Amanda

I'm probably a little late on the conversation, but I thought I'd add my two cents as well. As has been said, not everything works with every child. Children are as different as the leaves on the trees . . . all with different weaknesses and strengths and veins and such. And if you've got a particularly strong-willed child, be prepared for some battles! (I have two strong willed kids, and they're great fun. Directing them is key. I'm not always so good at it, though! I find myself yelling at them a lot to be heard, which is not the example I want spread, either. KIDS! They each need a manual in the afterbirth.)

Anyways: Try this: Whenever he hits - walk away from him. Tell him something to the effect of "No, hitting doesn't get us what we want" and be prepared to totally walk away from him, no matter what you're doing. If he's wanting juice and he hits for the attention. Walk away and don't get him the juice. If he hits while you are playing, get up and leave the room. If he responds to this by crying, ignore that to. The most important thing is that you remain in control and you remain "the boss." Pretty soon, if he doesn't get a response or a reaction out of you guys for the hitting, the response will become extinct. It will take more than a day, though, so just prepare yourself. Also, get everyone that comes into contact with him on a regular basis involved. You can't control everyone, of course, but as many as you can have in on the game plan the better. And if it's the dog he's hitting, remove the dog from the area, or even better . . . remove him from the dog! (And it might be interesting to see what he does if you give the dog a few extra moments of loving after its been hit by your son, after removing them from the same room, that is.)

It's hard when they're little because we know they don't mean to be hitting for meanness, but they still need to get the idea that hitting, in no way, brings out a good response.

And I should also say, my little darling girl still swats me on occasion when she thinks she's being cute (How this is cute, I have no idea!). It's all I can do not to wack her on the head!

This is both relevant and irrelevant to the topic. I know you've been discussing about your own families and experiences, but I 'd like to talk about something different.

A few minutes ago, a friend of mine sent me a video demonstrating a case of child abuse, the Kelsey Biggs case, if you've heard of it. The little girl was being mistreated by her step-dad, who was hitting her. Once, he hit her very hard at her stomach, leading to her death. The saddest part is that this girl was only 3 years old, and that her biological dad was at war, and when he came back he found out that his daughter was no longer alive. The stepfather went to prison, and legislators in the US passed a new law concerning child abuse, giving Kelsey's name.

What do you think about that?

I have never come across with a similar case, meaning that I don't know of a kid being treated this way by its parents. However, it is a very common phenomenon nowadays. It makes me very sad to see that there are parents who can actually do this to their kids...

So this is sort of related and unrelated too!

I read allsorts of horror stories of abused and neglected kids and I know that a couple of kids who attend my school are on the child protection register. These kids are only 7 and look so fragile, but there are all skinds of abuse and one of the worst kinds if the type where the parents aren't seen to be doing anything wrong. They leave their kids to fend for themselves in the pub playground everynight while they get hammered. The kids have no help with their school work. These kids are so street wise by the age of ten that they talk like mini adults with the most distrespectful of attitudes.

Today for instance, all the year 6 (10/11 year olds) are taking SATs exams. Yes it's a very stressful time and yes the weather is very warm for the UK but you'd have thought someone had set them on fire. They were fighting, swearing and arguing with each other and with the staff. One girl was so in my face that I could smell her lunch, she's 10. Yes I do blame the parents. I blame them for letting them watch the wrong thing on TV, for spending more time at the pub than with them and for letting them think that they are better than any adult other than their parents. These kids need to earn respect but they think we owe it to them. They are wise to what we can and can't do. They know we cannot physical restrain them if they lash out at us and they know that if they do the punishment will most likely lead to no more than a detention. There is no deterent to bad behaviour and so they laugh at us.

Some parents find being a good parent the most natural thing in the world, the rest should take parenting classes.

PS. Yes, I had a bad day today!

Elaine, what is a "pub playground?" Is that an area for kids to play in at a bar? I've never heard of such a place. In the US most bars don't allow anyone under the age of 21 in the door.

The abuse I see the most comes from kids being home alone without any supervision. I see that on a regular basis. There is a girl up the street from us that has lived this way the four years we have lived here. She's twelve now, but considering she was eight when we moved here, that's too young to be home alone for hours and hours. She used to come to our house and I felt she lived here. Rob said he was going to use her as a deduction on our income taxes, because we fed her all the time. She could actually spend the night for three nights running and I would never once hear from her parents.

They never hurt her or hit her, but not being there has to be emotionally painful.

This topic of abuse is one of my hot-buttons. I am so fiercely protective of my own kids and I know if anyone ever hurt them (I'm talking major abuse, not school-yard bullying) that I'd be carted off to prison for murder. It breaks my heart to see kids being belittled and/or ignored in public places because I'm sure it's so much worse in the privacy of their own homes.

I just saw a video that someone took with their cell phone of a group of adults, who were smoking pot, giving the joint to a TODDLER and laughing as the child attempted to smoke it. Believe it or not, the child is still in his mother's custody and she was PRESENT during the whole episode and did nothing to stop it (granted, she was probably stoned, but still). The reason the child wasn't taken, despite the overwhelming evidence? After a blood test it was determined that the child did not inhale any (or enough?) to register, so "no harm no foul".

I know parenting is hard... I've had my own days where I'd like nothing more than to run away to a private island where no one can find me , but once you commit to being a parent, you have to do what's best for your child. You are no longer numero uno, your child is. Growing up and taking responsibility is hard to do for many people. This next generation coming up has been spoiled. They've been living a life of instant gratification and I do believe it will be hard for them to buckle down and be responsible adults and parents. I'm not trying to generalize, and I do know that not ALL people of this generation have this attitude. It just seems to be the most prevalent one out there.

Ok, off my soap box. I'm starting to sound like my grandfather

Kathleen

I believe I agree with Kathleen's statement. My generation and the one following are utterly spoiled, rude and lack ethics. Not everyone but most of us/them are like that. For example, I see these emo kids. I don't know how this phenomenon is spread in other countries, but here it's become a major issue. Every 15 year old now has this crazy way of wearing their hair and they put more make-up on than I've ever put my whole life. They walk around pretending to be sad and self-destructive, but all I see is spoiled little brats spending their parents' money on torn apart clothing. You could never imagine how hated these kids are. They were even beaten up. So, yes, I keep wondering what these kids will offer in a few years in Greece. I know they have brains but they spend so much energy on unnecessary things that they get dump day by day. And you know what's the worst part? Their parents are actually proud of the way their kids look!

Abuse can be extended to many levels. I have never met a kid with physical abuse but I have met many who suffered psychological abuse. I had a classmate who was very clever, but he never had the chance to go out and play, to relax a little bit. His parents always put him under pressure to be the best in the class, and when I once came first in the class, they were so hollow, as if it was the end of the world. This guy will either turn into an abusive parent or a parent who sets no limits. Either way, I think it'll be hard for him to get over the way his parents treated him. He even chose to study away from Athens to escape from the pressure his parents impose to him.

I think it must be hard being a parent. I hope that when I get to be a parent, I will be able to be somewhere in between. Not exaggerating but also, not very very friendly with my kids. They need to know who the parent is but also trust him/her at the same time. It seems tough...

This topic is way close to my heart.

I am a step parent. I hate the title because I am more of a mommy to my stepdaughter (who is eight) then her biological mother has ever been. Being a parent is more then just biology. Any idiot can father or push a child out...the real challenge of parenting is self sacrafice. It is knowing that everything you say and do are being impressioned upon this little person who will emulate you wheather you be believe that or not.