I have always found it stupid that Hermione received an “Outstanding” in all her O.W.L’s except Defense Against the Dark Arts, where she received “Exceeds Expatriations”. Yeah, okay, she might not be quite as good as Harry is at Defense Against the Dark Arts, but that doesn’t mean they can’t both receive “Outstanding”. She’s still definitely the second best student in her year at Defense Against the Dark Arts so what, was Harry the sole person to receive an “Outstanding” in that subject? Cause if Hermione couldn’t surely nobody else could. Yet, earlier in the book Harry thinks about what Umbridge will think when all the members of the D.A. get “Outstanding” for the O.W.L in Defense Against the Dark Arts. As probably the second best person in the D.A. (first being Harry), and defintely the second best fifth year, how could Hermione not receive an “Outstanding”? Did Neville only receive an “Acceptable”, then? And Seamus, and Dean, and basically everybody else? And she got an “Outstanding” in all her other topics, and it’s not like Defense Against the Dark Arts is her weak subject or anything, she’s just as good in that subject as she is in all her other subjects. What do you guys think that Hermione should have gotten?

Hermione gave the reason herself. She says "The Defense against the Dark Arts Practical was no good". I guess it must have been something similar to what happened to her in the third book, where she panicked on seeing her boggart turn into Minerva McGonagall who told her that she failed everything. OWL scores are based on both theory and practical versions of the exam, so that would explain some bit of it.

By the way Neville received an Exceeds Expectations OWL in Defense Against the Dark Arts so did Ron.

Good for Neville, he and Ron deserve "E"'s, Ron maybe even an "O", though "E" is fine. But Hermione is above them, I guess it could have been like book 3 but she'd been studying hard and should have gotten an "O", imo.

I agree it was because of her practical. She would have gotten an O if she wouldn't have messed up in the end of that.

Yeah i expected hermione to get all O's we were told that shes this really smart witch best in the year in all that...but in the book we find out that other people like minstrys works or members of the order of the phoneix all got O's cant mind who excatly..but guess i was just expecting to much and it is kinda nice to no that even the best and brightest mess up guess this was just a reminder from jkr

hello


well i feel that she deserves a E becase she said in PS ( i lknow its long ago) that she is not good at the practical approach of magic. Only good at stuff that she can read from a book and write in a test

so i would say that a E is good for her.

Ofource harry has more expeience then them all so its only fit that he got a O.


but ya

peace out


P.s Please read my fanfic and comment. (link is in my signature)

I think it was a necessary plot element to show that even Hermione is not perfect in the schoolwork. It also goes to show that the Defense Against the Dark Arts needs more than memorizing books and spells and a little bit of something else.. as Harry explains to the DA in OotP.

No matter, however, because Hermione recieved Exceeds Expectations, a wonderful grade anyway.

Hermione isn't above Ron, they are equal in theire usefullness to Harry, despite what the movies tend to show...thank God for David Yates, he seems to get it.
But anyway, Harry is the Chosen One and all that so it would make sense that he got an Outstanding and Hermione didn't cause she's not.

I agree that it was neccessary to show that she is not perfect, but also to show that Harry is 'The Chosen One' who needs to be better to defeat Voldy. It shows he doesn't need to rely on Hermione or Ron to win the battle, that he could rely soley on himself when neccessary.

Even though Hermione is brilliant, there is only so much you can learn from a book. The students never had the proper teaching to allow them to learn about the practical side of Defence Against the Dark Arts. Harry received that instruction, which he tried to teach the D.A. over a few months. I wouldn't expect anyone to learn all that Harry was taught that quickly. I also remember that Hermione could not handle her boggart in her test at the end of Prisoner of Azkaban.

Plotwise, it may have been necessary. It matters more to me that it was a matter of skill. She simply did not have the discipline and practical skill that Harry had concerning Defence Against the Dark Arts.

I think that the main reason Harry got Outstanding is because he techincally has had a lot more training than everyone else, so it wouldn't be surprising if he really was the only person to get an O in his owl. He learnt the patronus charm in his third year, which we are continuously reminded is an extraordinary thing to be able to acheive, and he had a lot of training for the Tri-Wizard tournament. So it wouldn't be surprising that Hermione would have only got an E because she hadn't had all of this extra training like Harry had. And plus like someone else has said in PS she even said that she was mainly 'books and cleverness'.

x

I think the reason hermione got an E in her DADA exam because JK wanted to show us how good harry is at DADA and if hermone got one too it would kind of make it less impressive if harry got an O. And now she has showed us how good harry is at DADA it proves he is advanced for his age and he actually does have the potential to kill voldie.
sorry if its hard to understand LOL im just getting over the idea myselfe

Okay, just for clarification, if you scrapted a few O.W.L.'s, does that mean that you got a few either Outstanding, Exceeds Exceptions, or Acceptable? Just trying to clear that up.

Okay, I think that Hermione deserved an E. She is brillant, but it is only book smart. Sure she could probably do good in a battle because she knows spells, but in a practical it is a little harder. You have to know the spell, while fighting, you can just use the same spell over and over again. So I think that Hermione deserved what she got. (Okay, that sounded mean, but I didn't mean it to be, sorry)

Yes that is exactly right Padfoot, Prongs and Moony Only the passing grades

I chose Exceeds Expectations.
Honestly, I think it's time that Harry was better than Hermione in something. I mean it is the HARRY POTTER series not the HERMIONE GRANGER series. Hermione can't be better at everything! But then again, there's Quidditch but that's 2 things against over 100.

Okay,Hermione is NOT as good as Harry,but still,I think she should have received an Outstanding. She probaly studied DADA for the longest time,she can do NEWT standard spells like the Protean Charm! I think she deserved better

I found it pretty odd that she didn't receive an "Outstanding". She was one of the best in the D.A. It said the only person to memorize the shield charm faster than Neville was Hermione. She's soo good at D.A.D.A. if she didn't get an "O" on something it should have been ancient runes. Hermione said she made a big mistake on that but she didnt say she make any mistakes on the Defense Against Dark Arts O.W.L...

Yeah, and she was also one of the few to produce a patronus in the D.A. For all of you who said "She deserved an "E" to show that Harry was betetr than she was", she could have gotten at "O" and Harry could have still been better than she was. Afterall, Harry thought every single D.A. member would get an "O" in D.A.D.A., but the second best one didn't, doesn't that mean Harry was flat out wrong to the highest degree? Yes, it does, which is stupid.

hemione is one of the smartest witches that passed in hogwarts but poor hermione just knows what 's in books

yeah I agree with you.I would have thought that Hermione would have gotten outstanding.she is extremely brainy, and is some respects she seems to klnow more spells than everybody else, including defence spells.

it's weird that she doesn't get outstanding in dada, because in the case of exams, indeed i think she will probably don't have any problem in producing the patronus charm, but as the book was written in harry's perspective we can not know what really happened during her exams, thus not receiving outstanding.

I would say that Harry had to beat her in the subject, especially since he was the one teaching the DA. She does mess up her practicle, and Harry did everything perfect, and produced the patronus in the end for the extra credit, so he would have to get an O. Of course she thinks she messed up on others that she got O's on. I'd say she ended up with an E because she over extended herself trying to make it perfect, and made a minor slip up because of that.

I think that Hermione should have gotten the E that she got because people can't be the best at everything. I know Hermione is best at almost everything but....i don't know. That part of the story wouldn't have been as interesting if Hermy had gotten perfect O.W.L.s.

I think it’s not fair Hermione only gets an “Exceeds Expatriations” for her O.W.L. for Against the Dark Arts. She might not be as good as Harry is, but he is extraordinary good at it. Hermione is much better than the other students, so she just deserves that outstanding’. You can’t compare her skills with Harry’s, cause he’s just too good! If she doesn’t deserve an ‘Outstanding’, nobody else does!

I think Hermione should have gotten an "Exceeds Expectations" because it was to show that people aren't perfect. And to show that Harry was better then her. If Hermione had gotten an "Outstanding," it wouldn't have shown Harry is the best in the year at DADA. And anyway, she was never good at the practical DADA exams, she messed up on them in POA and OOTP.

Hermione says herself that she wasn't as good as Harry in DADA multiple times throughout the books. Judging by that, and the comments made by others about her skill there, and in book 3, when Lupin gives them their final exams, I don't think that Hermione really did achieve an Outstanding. Harry was the best, DADA was his strong point, pointedly better than Hermione, so I think that she got Exceeds Expectations. After all, she is a very talented witch, but just not as great in that area.

i think that they just did that to stress the point that harry is the very bestest at DADA...yeah hermione probably should have gotten a O but then harry's O wouldn't be as special...but if he beat hermione? then the world has come to an end!! and he did get extra credit for produceing a corpeal patronus

I didn't expect her to have an Outstanding, because even though Harry was teaching, I think we all knew that DADA was her weak point at Hogwarts. Didn't she get an Exceeds Expectations? I think that's normal. I see her also as more of a 'book person', more likely to study and to the theory before doing the spells. It's a bit like humans- that dumb stereotype that smart people can't do sports? And in this case DADA would be the sport.

I think it was right that Hermione only got an 'E' for Defence Against the Dark Arts. If she got an 'O' I think it may have been too false because then she would have got straight 'O's all round and although Hermione may have been the best in her year, be honest, nobody is that good. She had to get an 'E' somewhere just to show that she wasn't perfect, and they all have weaknesses as well as strengths, or people may have been like ' Why don't you just get Hermione to kill Voldemort, she's Outstanding in everything, especially in Defence Against the Dark Arts.'

Also if Harry and Hermione had both got O's in DADA, it may have suggested that they both had an equal chance of defeating Voldemort, and that may have led to Hermione being the preffered choice as she was smarter in all her other subjects too. DADA is Harry's thing, that's why he was head of the DA.

Hermione's gotta have a weakness somewhere, and as she is more a book worm and does the academic side best, it had to be DADA she came down in.

This statement is a bit unfair I think. I don't think Hermione is above Neville or Ron. Each student learns at his or her own pace and just because all three of them got the same grade on their DADA owls it doesn't mean that Neville or Ron is inferior to Hermione at all.


True, Hermione is is a brilliant witch and she most likely started studying for her OWLS months before any other student, however studying a book is not the same as practical application. Do you remember how upset and nervous Hermione got when Umbridge told them they would not be doing any practical magic in class? This is because she knew this was her weakest link. She needed the practice and when she was denied that she took to rule breaking to ensure she would learn DADA with a practical application.


Yes, during her lessons in the D.A she was the one who produced the patronus but how many of us are great at lessons and then choke completely during test time? Perhaps when asked to do something like this during her practical she just got nervous. And yes, Harry would expect those he is teaching to get Os on their OWLS...that is every teachers dream; to see the fruit of their labor rewarded in that way.

I agree. It's highly possible that Hermione choked during the practicals a little. In DH, when they were trying to get away from the dementors in the MoM, Harry told Hermione to make a Patronus. She was unsuccessful the first time. Harry told Mrs. Cattermole that, "It's the only spell she ever has trouble with." Now she may have done fine in the DA meetings, but perhaps under stress, like actual dementors or practical exam times, she isn't as strong. So, it's possible that if she can choke on the Patronus during these kinds of situations, she could have choked on something else as well during her exam which caused her to get an "E".

I think she got what she deserved and there is nothing we can do. If Umbridge gave the exam then most likely she Harry the grade because she didn't like him. That is just my opinion.

I agree with both sides here. Hermione is an amazingly skilled witch. But she did say she messed up the practical. She get's extremely nervous on exams, and probably finds the writing easier than the doing. So I'm guessing she messed something up there. Also, Ron got Exceeds Expectations also. There has been nothing in the books to say he is more incompetant at Defense than Hermione. They both go everywhere with Harry, and have both been in the same situations.

One thing I saw it as. Was like JKR saying they completed each other. The one thing Hermione didn't get an outstanding, it was ok because Harry did. Ron's it says he had no outstandings. But he still got good results. I thought she was trying to say the trio can only be strong together, because the qualities that might not be so good in one of them are in the other.

I think that Hermione definitely should stay with the Exceeds Expectations. Defense Against the Dark Arts was her weakest subject, as shown in the third book when she couldn't finish her test. There was also a part in the seventh book when Hermione couldn't perform just one spell. It was one of the only spells that Harry could do that she couldn't. So maybe that's why she didn't get the Outstanding.

I thought she should have definitely got an 'O' just because she isn't as good as harry doesn't mean she should be a whole level lower!! I guess JKR just wanted to humble Hermione

I thought it was nice for Harry to beat Hermione at something. Hermione herself did say she had messed up the practical exam for DADA. She is a brilliant witch but everyone has some point where they will underperform according to their own high standards. Hermione is brilliant at the theory side of things and more often than not, the practical side of things too. But she has always had a bit of a problem with DADA practical exams as we can remember from PoA where the boggart proved too much for her.

I'm also glad Harry beat Hermione at something. Even though Hermione and Ron helped Harry through a lot of Dark Arts stuff, it was mainly Harry who thwarted Voldemort every time. He did practice a lot more because Voldemort really wanted Harry dead, and he had to know how to defend himself. Hermione learned that stuff, but she was better at the books than hands-on stuff. I think that the DA should have made "Exceeds Expectations" even if that's the same Hermione did. They were about even with each other... well most of them were.

C'mon people does it really matter what grade Hermione got in OWLs vis-a-vis Harry? In the final book Harry practically depends on Hermione to cast almost every spell for him, from memory charms to concealment enchantments, apparition and even cooking when the latter two he can do as well if not better than her-based on canon evidence. But JKR chose to make Harry an impotent slob in the final two books and I don;t see too many people complaining. In fact she gets under cruciatus from Bellatrix and comes out nearly unscathed ...superhuman anyone??? She cast the stinging hex on Harry when snatchers came calling because Harry was too incompetent to think straight in danger..wonder whatever happened to " ... luck Harry keeps his cool under pressure..."??? JKR even included a text in the book when Harry was preparing Dobbys epitaph "He knew Hermione could have done it better..." No one seems to mind this at all, then why are people so worked up over an insignificant thing as OWL score?? Why not have Hermione kill Voldemort in the final book and be done with it? JKR practically had her do everything in the final book .... no wonder Harry fans like myself care a fig for JKR and her lackeys...

Hermione should have received "Outstanding" on her O.W.L's. Besides, does anyone remember from the Chamber of Secrets book, when Hermione was the only one to receive full marks on Gilderoy Lockhart's Quiz, and Harry and Ron failed? This was quite unfair in my opinion, but I suppose Harry is better in Defense Against the Dark Arts. But, Harry didn't receive full marks on any other O.W.L's, but Hermione got "Outstanding" on everything other than Defense Against the Dark Arts. The score is still: Hermione: Many "O's," Harry: One "O."
Hermione is definitely still a lot smarter than Harry, not to mention, most other people.

I also think Hermione should have received Outstanding in her DADA OWL. Even though she's not as good as Harry is at it, she is still very good. And as the practical exam wasn't the same as Harry describes it in "the real world" where you think you're going to die any second, I think she would have performed the spells easily, especially since she was in the DA.
I understand the point that JKR was making by giving Harry an "O" and Hermione an "E", but we can see at other parts of the series that Hermione isn't as competent as Harry when they are really fighting to survive. She sometimes struggles to produce a patronus, and can't throw off the Imperius Curse. I don't think either of these were tested in the exam, as Harry only produced a patronus for a bonus point because the examiner had heard that he could produce a corporeal one. So even if she didnt't score as highly as Harry, wouldn't she still be entitled to an "O"?
I was also surprised that she and Ron made it into the NEWT DADA class which Snape was teaching, when they only got "E". I would have thought Snape would only take students who got an "O", like he did with Potions. Maybe that means Harry was the only one to get an "O" and Snape certainly didn't want to have one on one lessons with him?
Hermione's real subject failure at school is Divination, but as she quit it early on we didn't get to see her OWL results for that, which I imagine would have been amusing, possibly a "D" or even a "T". Even Harry did better than that. And she is also not as good at Quidditch, which Harry excels at. So there are weaknesses at school, but she doesn't get OWL results for these.

i think she didnt get an O because her examiner didnt know she could do a patronus and didnt ask her to perform one.

if i remembered correctly harry was told that the patronus would give him a bonus point



and yes, hedwig91,
we didnt get to read about hermione not throwing off the imperius curse...