I know - all along there were clues to him being good but I was so busy following Harry that I didn't notice.

Poor Severus. I wish JK would do more books. I'd love to read about Severus, James, Lily, and Lupin when they were young.

"When you've seen as much life as I have, you will not underestimate the power of obsessive love...." [ Slughorn ]


Up to Book 6, I knew Snape was going to die and I hoped he'd die the most painful death b/c I strongly hated him ... But after Book 7, I wished he were alive to be recognized . . . I don't believe redemption should be fulfilled in death; I want there to be LIFE after redemption.

In their firth year, Lily had never had feelings for James (you can see enough in every word she'd thrown at him). By defending Snape, she wanted him to see that she cared for him. So unexpectedly, at the moment Snape called her "Mudblood", she was shocked, extremely. Can it be explained that the more you loved someone (in any way), the more you would be hurt by his unexpected behavior ? Lily tried to convey her aversion to Dark Magic to Snape, whose inability to recognize that he would lose her ultimately led to his tragedy !

"Look what they did to McDonald the other day! It's evil."
"I don't see why you can still be friends with them"
"My friends don't understand why I even talk to you"

"I'm sorry"
"I'm not interested"
"I'm sorry"
"Save your breath"

Those conversations remind me that Lily had always acted as if Snape were to blame for everything: Earlier, when Petunia got angry because she was jealous of Lily's being a witch, Lily had turned on Snape that "I don't want to talk to you" in a rather accusative tone. Why did she react that way ? I felt that it betrayed her earlier portrayal that "She was an uncommonly kind woman, someone who saw the beauty in others, especially when a person cannot see it for himself..."

Snape - who came from a broken home and needed so much understanding - had never been given a chance. I was rather surprised at Lily's response, which was nothing close to Mr. and Mrs. Weasley's forgiveness for Percy, nor was it to Harry's - what should I say - generosity when he saved Malfoy from the flame . . . Given those, it is obvious she had been indifferent and had never paid attention to his true feeling because she saw him as friend and perhaps, cared more about his DE circle than for Snape himself.


As JKR said, "James always suspected Snape harboured deeper feelings for Lily, which was a factor in James’s behaviour to Snape." I wish JKR didn't let Lily defend Snape that way at all. . . .

James intentionally wanted to prove Snape weak by putting up that vile joke in front of Lily (what a coward James was. Snape is nasty, right, but the character of James is more reproachable because it was he who started it all). Again, Lily's reaction surprised me the most: she smiled, though not very openly but enough to let Harry see it. If Harry saw his mother smile, probably Snape did, too ... hence, "Mudblood". If my friend was trapped in that situation, even in my imagination I wouldn't see myself SMILING.

A big irony is: Lily - while being Snape's friend at that time - found the situation amusing. Harry - while hating Snape with all his heart - could not manage a smile, and in no way did Harry find himself outraged at his mother being called "Mudblood." Why? . . . Because Harry knew how it felt to be teased or humiliated in front of a crowd. He knew how Snape had felt. Often as we see Harry walking into people's memories - including Tom Riddle's - he felt empathetic for them as if he were seeing through their eyes. It is Harry who understands Snape, not Lily.


Regarding Snape's initial intention to trade Harry's and James's lives for Lily's: he must have agonizingly concluded that "Lily wouldn't die if it was not because of you [Harry]." Therefore, his hatred toward Harry does not stem from the fact that Harry resembles James alone; it also comes from his undying love for Lily which forges his aforementioned viewpoint.


"Have you grown to care for the boy, after all?"
"For him?" shouted Snape. "Expecto Patronum!"
From the tip of his wand burst the silver doe....
"After all this time?"
"Always," said Snape.


It looks to me that this excerpt can be interpreted in two differerent ways (yes, it can). Perhaps Alan Rickman's performance will give me a clear answer After knowing all of what Snape's done, I don't feel angry anymore because I don't expect him to love/care for/like Harry, who is not even his own son.

I do not like people who judge others just by their appearances or where they came from. And I HATE people who laugh at others' pains. James, Sirius and Lily were not bad people, but they had lost a very loyal friend just by their stupid actions. I think James and Lily must be so much ashamed of themselves when their son's life was saved by Severus Snape - the one they had abandoned.


Now comes the Snape-loves-Harry? puzzle (Snape never loves anybody except Lily... LOL; I should say "like" or "care"):

Lupin had told Harry something like: "You determined to hate [Snape], Harry ... Having James as a father and Sirius as a godfather, you've inherited the old prejudice...." While both Harry's and Snape's attitudes are alike, neither has a chance to learn the other ... Even if Snape had liked Harry, how much of it could he have safely shown? Voldemort and the DE (and their kids) would have known if Snape was being nice to "The Chosen One", thus giving away his true allegiance and ultimately putting the good side in more danger . . . Despite how Snape acts, there are evidences that his attitude toward Harry has softened over the years, perhaps due to something in Harry's nature that Snape himself is not fully aware of ... and we see it most clearly in Book 6: he didn't report Harry for keeping the HBP's Potions book; he punished harshly yet never meant to harm (What has he done? Taking points off or throwing some snide remarks?); after Harry did Sectumsempra to Draco, I was to believe that Snape would make him pay dearly, but I was not nearly right: Harry was sent to detentions when he only needed to do Filch's unfinished works, NOT to write "I must not tell lies" with his own blood ... Near the end (after Snape had already killed DD), Snape kept shouting at the D.E. that they should not hurt Harry and he urged the DE to leave the castle, therefore preventing further damage. And many others ... His job was to keep Harry alive, but he did more than that ... If he'd really hated Harry, he would have enjoyed watching Harry being tortured by the hands of the DE.

"You have been raising him like a pig for slaughter..."

The first time, perhaps, seeing Snape being sentimental? And I take it as his genuine concern for Harry which made him voice that out. While I don't think Snape 'loves' Harry in the traditional sense, there is one thing that leads me to believe he does feel something for him: Snape is the only person who ever gives Harry concrete memories of his mother.
I want to believe that NOT all Slytherins are bad, but am quite disturbed with the fact that ALL of them stood on Voldemort's side once the war began. How about Snape? He stood on Dumbledore's side through and through! Don't know why some people keep saying "Snape sold Lily to Voldemort" ---> I remind you that it's Peter Pettigrew who sold them. What Snape did was inadvertent because he did NOT know that the Prophecy was referring to Lily's son. "You have no idea of the remorse Professor Snape felt when he realized how Lord Voldemort had interpreted the Prophecy. I believe it to be the greatest regret of his life and the reason that he returned..."


Has Snape turned out to be a good person? Yes. It was proven by his punishment of Luna, Neville and Ginny: sending them to the Forbidden Forest, which he knew was not a punishment at all, plus he has stopped using the word "Mudblood" [ If you realize, Snape's fault for calling Lily a Mudblood has become his WORST memory, so he determines not to repeat it ] ... And the fact the he manages to stay loyal to his love all these years must say something.

"How many men and women have you watched dying lately?"
"Only those whom I could not save"



The pros and cons of Severus Snape:

Cons:
- spiteful
- a bully
- early attraction to Dark Magic [ not really a bad point because obviously, not only he was attracted to Dark Arts, he was proficient at Counter-curses, too. So as I recognized: he chose DA to protect, or rather, to heal. Ahh mind you, Harry was attracted to DA once or twice, too ]

Pros:
- he's a brilliant wizard !
- immensely brave [ imagine that one day, Albus Severus stepped to Snape's portrait and said: "My father told me you were the bravest man..." ]
- loyal, faithful till the end !
- trustworthy: never goes back on his word


"My word, Severus, that I shall never reveal the best of you?"

"I sometimes think we sort too soon"

These saddest lines awake me to Snape's lifelong suffering - from a broken home to a bad circle of Slytherins, a rejection from his only friend, then the rest is devoted to redemption ... "He did everything for Lily," not quite right. His motivation also originated from the need for redemption (you may say they're the same thing but not, this is due to self-realization -- an epiphany -- more than to obsessive love) and his awakening to Voldemort's destruction as well as to his life's purpose ... It's heartbreaking when remembering that he and Harry once had the same hope that Hogwarts would be their true Home... And it's more agonizing to realize that one of them has never had his childhood dream come true . . .

Snape is, not only brave and loyal, way honorable than a bunch of characters because he's able to choose what is right and not what is easy.


How could JKR not realize that Snape is always destined to overshadow Harry? Especially how important he is to two of the main themes of the series: love and self-sacrifice !


There is a LJ essay on Snape that makes some excellent points!

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Wow Sword of Gryffindor. I think you hit the nail on the head!!


I was so devasted when Severus died. I was always a HP fan and loved the books but this was something different. His tale was one of rejection, lonliness and loss. And then for him to just die -well that was aweful. Especially as, like most people in the book, I thought he was bad right up until the memories. But by then he was dead

I agree! After everything he went through to die thinking it had all been for nothing - Harry was going to die and all his protection had been for nothing.
I wanted him to live to get a second chance at hapiness, god knows he deserved it!

Severus Snape was the bravest character in HP, and that includes Dumbledore. I started reading the books when I was 9, and in the early years I always believed that Snape was bad despite that Dumbledore always trusted him. However, as I've got older I began to realise that was the impression JK wanted us to have, and I got a little faith in Snape.

The whole thing that he loved Lily broke my heart. In fact, I cried. When he produced the patronus and Dumbledore asked "after all this time?" to which Snape replied "always" had me sobbing for half an hour. I think those words are my favourite ever from book. In reading "The princes tale" I fell in love with Snape, and his bravery. He lost the only woman he ever loved to the boy he despised, and then he lost her again to death and then Dumbledore asked him to keep their son safe. Dumbledore ALWAYS asked too much of Snape. I guess the reason this theme touched me so much is that love is one of the few things I still believe in - I'm getting deep at 1:30am! As a nurse I see so much suffering, grief, heartbreak and death that it's very hard not to become bitter and cynical but I still believe that sometimes love can be enough (even though I know that isn't often the case - my patients wouldn't die if love was always enough) and the fact that Snape was willing to - and did - do whatever it took to keep Harry safe for Lily was both tragic and poignant.

I'm waffling now!

Sword of Gryffindor,

You make some very excellent points about Lily's actions toward Snape. I don't doubt that she loved and cared for Snape, and she definitely did what no one else would do -- she gave Snape a chance and became his friend. However, I can't see any justification for her just throwing Snape away.
Was Snape right to call Lily a Mudblood? No, not in the least. Was the remark hurtful and inappropriate? Yes, without a doubt. Should Lily have been angry? Absolutely. However, as a friend, Lily should have shown understanding and forgiveness, especially since the comment was made during a time when Snape was being publicly ridiculed. I, like you, can't imagine how a friend could watch this kind of abuse with even the hint of a smile on her face, or how she could find the situation even mildly amusing.
There is no evidence that Snape had ever even come close to insulting Lily before, and it's apparent that the word truly just slipped out in Severus' anger. While I'm not condoning what he called her, I definitely believe that Snape deserved another chance. I would have thought that Lily, having known what Snape's life had been like and having known that he had always been a faithful friend, would have been more compassionate. Instead, she abandoned him when he was most in need of guidance and companionship.

Yeah the Snape and Lilly thing was really intresting, i know some people guessed Snape loved Lilly. But i thought it was strange and didn't beleive it. But i can't beleive i dissmissed that idea. I think it makes sense. And it was nice that Snape got a look at Lilly's green eyes before he died.
Though i think his death was magnificent enough i wanted him to die defending Harry. I quess he did but not in the way i was thinking. I mean sort of in battle. I agree with thosse people who say Snape was one of the bravest characters in HP. Including Dumbledore and Harry himself. He had to sarcrive everything and no one truely ever knew what heartache he really had to go through.

Severus Snape The best ever! I loved him from the get go. So Dark and mysterious in ways but so Obvious in others. I did not like the way Lily treated him and didn't understand that if they were such good friends and she cared for him, how in the HECK could she of just thrown him away like that , yes it was hurtful him calling her a mudblood and she had every right to be angry , but to do what she did to him was down right uncalled for. And why was she never up in James face about the way he was treating her good friend? Forgive but not forget ......I've also noticed the important part where Snape finally had revealed his true feelings for Harry to DD when he was asked If dhe finally had feelings for him and he replied with revealing his Doe and ALWAYS, letting you truely know his feelings for Harry have always been faithful , true, and his protecter BUT if he were to ever reveal his true feelings would of ultimately put Harry in even more Danger then he already was and himself. Playing up the fact his hatred for Harry only made it easier for him to play both sides, and his facial reactions when he was Mean to Harry , so easily seen through , YOU could tell he was hurt and wanted so much to reveal everything to him but could not.
The death of Snape had to be one of the worst parts of the book along with Dobby and fred. There were alot of unanswered questions left at the end of the book 19 years later .....makes me wonder If she wanted it that way , or was it some sort of release to somehow bring the story back , but in a different atmosphere. I have to say No one other then Alan Rickman could of played this Character and made Snape the most Hated & Loved Character in the Movies......... I hope that if someone does come AFTER the fact , that the ghost of Snape is always there ......." Please someone bring him back to Life" It's Magic anything is Possible !!!

What a fantastic post! You summed it up perfectly, Sword of Gryffindor!

I too had some resentment towards Lily's actions... How can you not forgive somebody you care for, or who you love? I, and I think, Harry as well could perfectly understand the way Snape behaved in that situation. You are being humiliated in a terrible and mean way for practically nothing! You are dangling upside down in front of a bunch of students who roar with laughter and point at your mangy old underpants, which you are ashamed of, too. Plus, you had almost choked a moment earlier on soap bubbles, and above all, your friend is defending you in front of everyone, and even that is turned against you! You are humiliated as a fellow student and also as a man, who has to be "defended" by a girl! I know that "Mudblood" is way too harsh, but in that given situation Snape is desperate to scrape what tiny bit is left from his dignity. And he's truly sorry. I can imagine very few people who would humiliate themselves further, by sleeping in front of Gryffindor's common room - as a Slytherin! But he's still there, pleading for Lily's forgiveness, and the worst is yet to come for him.

Why did Lily refuse to forgive him? Maybe she was influenced by her friends, convinced that Snape was not worthy of a friend? It must have been hard for her, too...but her humiliation wasn't even near to what Snape had to face on a daily base. She couldn't see this...or maybe didn't want to see it at all? Was it an easy way out? Did she ever regret losing him as a friend (or more)? You were absolutely right, Harry did understand Snape, but Lily seemed like she never could. Understand the desperation behind his actions, his fierce longing for her...Couldn't she see how much he loved her? Maybe she was repulsed by his attraction to the Slytherin gang, but it's perfectly understandable: they were in his House, where he thought he belonged to (although the school indeed Sorts too soon - Snape proved to be a true Gryffindor later on), they too judged all his actions and he was craving for their respect, as well as Lily's.

Why on Earth did Lily chose James over Snape? Was he any better as a teenager? James, who was so selfish that he felt it was rightful to bully innocent people? James, who was downright mean as a teenager? How could she forgive him, while she couldn't forgive Snape? Don't get me wrong, in the heart of hearts James must have been a good man, like Sirius, but why was he granted another chance, when Snape wasn't? Because he was a Gryffindor, and we assume that they are the good, and Slytherins are the bad? Especially given that Snape was her first friend, the one she knew since she was 9 (or so), the one who introduced her to the world of Magic. She could have known him better after such a long time, and could have seen the reason behind his poorly chosen actions...

And still, Snape never ceased to love her. Not even after having the portrait door literally slammed in his face. Who is the true Gryffindor then? Lily must have been a wonderful person, as people often remembered her, and she could see the best in those who never saw it in themselves, but why did she chose to push Snape away? I swear, this series of books collects all the wrong choices one can make in their lives...You were so right when you wrote this:



It could have been easier to close that chapter of his life, and never care about her anymore, but he did, until the very end, and even in his last moments he craved to look into the eyes of the woman who betrayed him more than he ever betrayed her. Because Snape was the one who begged at every forum for Lily's and her family's life, and it was Pettigrew who sold them to Voldemort. Even after Lily gave up a long lasting friendship just like that, abandoning Snape who never needed anyone's attention and caring more than he needed hers. Did she ever realise this? I hope she did, but alas, it was too late for them...At least there was Harry, a mixture of his parent's genes, who made it right in the end and could see Snape's actions in a whole different light.

Seeing James and Sirius, loving parent and godfather, brave but eager to pick victims for fun, seeing Lily, loving and angelic yet unforgiving, seeing Pettigrew, insecure and traitor, and seeing Snape, demented and taunted, but loyal and loving until the very end - I wonder what is it that makes one a true Gryffindor or a true Slytherin. I guess it all comes down to the fact that there are no truly evil (save Voldy) or truly good people, just people who make mistakes and there's no need to Sort them here or there, it's their soul and heart that sets them apart, not bravery, loyalty, brains or cunning, which may all be found in each and every one of us.

Tatina,

Well said! This is exactly the point that I was trying to convey; however, I didn't do it quite as eloquently as you did!




I tend to believe that Lily did abandon Snape because of her friends' influence... it was the easy way out. At the same time, though, I'm sure that Snape endured his fair share of criticisms from his Slytherin gang for being friends with a Mudblood -- and I didn't see Snape giving in to peer pressure and crossing Lily off of his list. I also wonder how she never realized that Snape never again used the word "Mudblood?" You would think that people would have noticed that he had quit slinging the insult their way. It seems as though that would have had quite an impact on Lily's opinion of him, since it would have made it more than obvious that Snape was sincerely remorseful for using the word.

JessiMae82, you are perfectly right.

What really upsets me is the reply to Snape's pleads:

'It's too late. I've made excuses for you for years. None of my friends understand why I even talk to you. You and your precious little Death Eater friends - you see, you don't even deny it! You don't even deny that's what you're all aiming to be! You can't wait to join You-Know-Who, can you?/.../I can't pretend any more. You've chosen your way, I've chosen mine.'

In my opinion, a true friend never has to make excuses. No matter who he hung out with, there would have been no need for Lily to make excuses, had she really seen and understood Snape's personality. Or maybe she did, before the good old "Gryffindor pride" had kicked in. None of her friends understood - of course, because they never knew him, and never bothered to! It's the Gryffindor-Slytherin rivalry again, which is inherited from one generation to another. And how quickly children adopt it! Even Lily, who didn't have Magical parents and Gryffindor heritage, and before Snape came, never knew anything about magic! She didn't care about Houses then, it was just her and Snape, two equal children waiting for the Magic to begin. She didn't listen to Petunia back then, when she said that he was a boy from Spinner's End. Because they were alike, magical "freaks", and their background did not matter. So why did it, when they became older?

She'd chosen her way indeed, but I believe she'd chosen it long before. Because a true Gryffindor doesn't make friends with Slytherin, greatest rival and enemy. Maybe she didn't share this idea with her friends, but she played along because she didn't want to differ, regardless of her friendship with Snape that was longer and deeper than the others she made at school. She said she could not pretend anymore... I think that was the last blow to Snape. Could not pretend? So their friendship never existed? How can one say something like this to a friend? A best friend? Yes, Snape had chosen his way, too, but even before Lily did. And at the end of his road stood Lily, even when she lay dead six feet under. It was all because of her, and her greatest mistake was not to realise this. I agree that Snape must have had even worse critics from the fellow Slytherins - befriending a Mudblood! Yet he stuck with her, while she failed him and succumbed to the old, unhealthy prejudice.

She wasn't granted the chance to being able to protect her son but once, when she laid her life down for him. But someone else did protect him from that moment, sacrificing everything, even his own pride, to secure the future and safety of the son of his greatest rival. All because of her. And HE never deserved another chance from Lily?!

After finishing the books, I can finally and without any doubt say that Severus Snape was, is and will be the greatest, biggest and most adorable character.
I started to like him in the first book, when he saved Harry's life at the Quiditch match. Later he acted, let's say, not nice, but we at least knew that he had the heart to repay for once saved his life.
Then the fifth book: Snape's memories which Harry saw during the lessons of Occlumensy. They had my heart touched deeply. Well, maybe I always feel sad about children without normal families. So that's how I felt about Snape too. And that he was an outcast in Hogwarts...When people are treated badly, you can't suppose them to be treating others well. That's how I explain Snape becoming a Death Eater.
The thing Dumbledore trusting Snape: I was thinking that Snape would regret about telling Voldy the Prophecy, and that's why Dumbledore trusted him. But it was hard to believe that the reason was Love.
And talking about the last book: when there was little mentioning Snape in the book, I was a bit worried about my feelings for him. But from the moment he, dying, gave Harry his thoughts, I knew all was well. When reading, it didn't approach me that "Look at me" was supposed to be looking at the green Lily's eyes. And when it did, it was too sad to bear it.
One of my wants for the book, was that Snape and Harry had an explaining conversation. Later it occured to me that with Snape's character it's impossible. Maybe it was a good way to show it to Harry through the Pensieve. It was so dramatic to see those memories. They just proved me that my favorite character, Severus Snape, had a heart. Quite a big one.

to tatina,

as we grew older we tend to neglect some of the most important things in this world, we become consumed to worldliness, and one certain thing is pride. the innocence of childhood vanish the moment we become conscious of the things that aren't supposed to be really important at the end of our life. so for lily she become conscious of what her friends would say rather than continue her friendship with snape a slytherin, after all he belong to a rival house, and as for snape calling lily a "mudblood" was the creation of pride in which case he was in a most humiliiated situation.

to java,
hehe he really did have a heart and as you said quite a big one

he have endured hate, mistrust, and contempt, from both organizations, within the circle of the death eaters and with the members of the order of the phoenix, and yet he still was able to accomplish what he had agreed with dumbledore. he did indeed move forward, abandon the past and that's the most important of all. he learned from his mistakes and did help for the greater good.

Snape....adorable.... Not 2 words I would have used in the same sentence, but to each their own! I do agree that Snape is one of the most interesting and complex characters I've ever come across. On one hand he loathes Harry because he looks and acts so much like James, and on the other hand he knows he has to protect him because of his love for Lily. How complicated is that? I'm glad it turned out he was working for Dumbledore the whole time, even when he had to kill him. Loved the book!

when i was reading the book i didnt realise why snape said look at me i didnt get it but its gonna be szo sad in the movie to watch snape die i will cry boohoo

I thing SS its is stile evil with Harry because if hi wasn’t that hard with him in that first day maybe thing was a little more different but because SS hate Harry because hi look just like his father except hi haze his mother eyes, hi treated Harry like hi was a criminal and that it’s the reason of there faith.

I was half shocked at the truth about Severus Snape, the one who seemed to despised Harry soooo much and the one who risked his life to spy on He-Who-Must-Not-Be-Named to protect Harry. I also was surprised to know that he had a crush on Lily Potter. I am glad that his true character was revealed at the end. Also I was very happy that He-Who-Must-Not-Be-Named died NOT knowing that there was a spy among his Death-Eaters. Thumbs Up to Snape!

Actually, it was even better than that. Voldemort DID find out about Severus' true loyalties, but only at the very end, right before his life was snuffed out... and the humiliation in front of all those witnesses too!!!

i felt really bad after i read that snape was working with dumbledore the whole time. i believe him to be a bad guy from the beginning, although i ocationally allowed myself to think of him as a good guy.

snapes death to me was very dissapointing after finding out the truth about him. considering his character i think it would have been more honorable for him to have died fighting instead of dieing due to a sneak attack by voldemort.

MA THOUGHTS BOUT SANPES IS DAT IN A WAY I KNE HE WAS GUD...CUZ IN DA SORCERES STONE WEN HE SAVED HARRY...BUT WEN I FOUND OUT BOUT HIM BEING DA ONE KILLIN DUMBLEDORE...I THOUGHT DA COMPLETE OPPOSITE FROM HIM...UNTILL DAT PARTICULAR MOMENT WEN HARRY GOES THROUGH HIS MEM....I ALWAYS THOUGHT DAT DA REASON WHY HE HAD PROTECTED HARRY IN DA SORCERES STONE WAS BCUZ JAMES HAD SAVED HIS LIFE...WHICH WAS TRUE...BUT I BELIEVE DAT DA MAIN REASON WAS HIS EVERLASTING LOVE HE HAD FOR LILY...IT WAS QUITE MESSED UP HOW SNAPE TREATED LILY INFRONT OF PPL...DAT WAS WRONG FROM HIS SIDE...BUT ABOVE IT ALL...HE GREW TO LOVE HARRY...

What can I say about Snape? At the begining of the HP books I never bothered to like/dislike him. I always thought he was just a teacher who used to pick on his students (I never met one but I`m sure they exist ) but in the 3rd book it looked like there was more to him than expected...after that I kinda forgot about him `cause in the 4th book there are many other HUGE and IMPORTANT things that happen` like LV`s return

I started likeing Snape after Harry saw his memory in the pensive. It was so touching...I think even Harry felt bad about him. Seeing Snape so mad and so affected and Harry actually embarresed in front of him was so...I dunno how to explain

But in HBP I really thought Snape was bad. I couldn`t believe he killed Dumbledore!!!! I knew before that Dumbledore will die `cause someone toled me but to be killed by Snape...that was smth I didn`t expected.

So when he died I was like... oky it seems fair. But then...OMG And now I can say he`s the best...my favourite character, a brave man. Dumbledore`s man through and trough.

Also...do u realise that all the things in this book happend because of him?!?!

Look,as a loyal friend of Harry,I ALWAYS HATED Snape!Such a tyrant he was,fevering those who were fans of him,punishing those whom he didnt like without any reason...he was a VILLAIN!Even when DD asked Harry to be polite about Snape,or when Hermione insisted that DD had reasons to believe Snape..,I wasnt convinced..
But then there came the 7th part and it was a SHOCK!!!(SHOCK seems a politer word to use to describe my astonishment!)I never looked at Snape from that angle and yet,when I did,I found no flaw in the story!IT was so well-balanced,well-placed that I has to believe that he was a hero!such a realistic yet fantastic bit of "reality"!!!I love Rowling for that...She can create magic!

I have to say,
I'm still not getting used to the fact that Snape is a really really good person because of his dark side.

But I thought it was so obvious from the beginning that Snape was in love with Lily. I mean, he saved Harry a few times and there were many hints that he didn't only save Harry because it was a way to pay the debt he had to James when he saved Snape.

Another hint was that he was allways really jealous of James, not only because he was popular 'cause I can't imagine Snape ever wanting to be the least popular. So it wasn't much of a surprise, but I thought it was still very well told. Well, It's JK.R we'e talking about, so no surprises here either.

I loved the complexity of the character, it was really well invented, but yet again it's JK.R we're talking about.

There's definately been times where i've doubted Snape being good, but from when he saved Harry from Quirrel in HPPS we could see he did have a good side. But from then on he seemed to only loath him. I guess now this was because he looked so much like James, and James was the person who got the girl he loved.

I also seemed to think him as a better person at the end of Half blood prince, because although I really didn't like him at first for killing Dumbedore, I went on www.dumbledoreisnotdead.com and I read the bit about Dumbledore pleading with Severus to kill him, and thinking back to him saving Hary, I thought he may have had an agreement with DD, but perhaps I was under the impression that DD would come back not dead, and the two of them had sorted it all out, so DD would still be alive, and Snape still seemed to have killed him.

Anyway...I guess I was wrong. But i always believed Snape to have a connection to Lily, that he didn't want other people to know about, because it wouldn't have been James' child he wanted to help in book 1, so it must have been Lily's.

yeah hahaha what a shame voldemort have felt after knowing one his most loyal death eaters have betrayed him under his very own nose hahaha voldemort would have not thought that there is someone that dared to double crossed him and yet lied to him for so many years, even until snape's last moment he hasn't revealed to him his true allegiance. voldemort has no idea actually, beyond his wildest dream that sanpe managed to fool the greatest dark wizard of all time and it was because of love the only thing that he didn't have and belived.
i put my hat off for you severus snape.

I've always thought that Snape couldn't have stand on the right side, but at the same time I couldn't understand DD's behavior about him. I believed for a long time that DD was surely mistaken, but then came Snape's memories... First I couldn't believe what I was reading. I had to reread it, but still it seemed to be impossible. There was a total confusion in my head about Snape. Simply, it was unbelievable. And I think there is no doubt that this was the only way to convince everyone, and of course Harry as well.

Snape was maybe the most surprising character, such great things were revealed about him, after we thought he was a murder... it was amazing! Although I can't call him my favourite character because I wasn't able to trust him, that was my fault. But I wish I could say after all this that he is one of my favourites!

I hate SS because hi hated HP and hi made his life miserable and all this things because hi hated his father but life is life
DD trust it him but I don’t and I will never trust him because hi is evil

Well, I mean, have you actually read the books? All of them?

Yes, this would be also my question to you ioana.adam, are you sure about what you're saying?

I completely agree with everything ETPhonehome said-the whole summer I was dreading reading the book because 1) it would be the last one and 2) I was afraid that Snape wouldn't be redeemed (I actually said to Mr Equusfixer that I was going to be really mad if JKR didn't redeem Snape)

I think for Snape treating Harry so badly was because Snape could either do all or nothing-if he was nice to Harry he had to be really nice, but his mission was to be the ultimate spy against LV and he had to appear to hate Harry-so to hate Harry he had to go all out, not just pretend to hate Harry.

I think that the Prince's Tale was a fabulous chapter, and I actually had to go back and read it through again before I went on with the rest of the book.

I too used up a box of tissues it seemed like!

Snape really did surprise me. I mean, after the murder of Dumbledore, I really thought he was a bad guy. But the story of Severus Snape did make sense, because just like in the first book, in the end, Snape really is a good guy. He may not do it the flashy hero-like way, but he does it his way, and it works. He may still be that same nasty, mean person, but it shows he really did love and care. Everyone knew that Snape would probably have to die, whether he was good or bad, but the way JK did it made the end to this great series even better. As JK said, Snape really was a "flawed hero" and I enjoyed the chapter where everything about Snape was explained, and his legacy was fufilled and redeemed.

hi guys
same thing to ask ioana.adam here, and do you understand the meaning of the word evil portrayed in the books? if not you will never truly understand snape's actions.

Snape was not good in the end. He was loyal and efficient and a truly talented wizard, but he was never good. His life as a child beat the true understanding of love out of him. He was obsessed with Lily, quite possibly he worshiped her, but his desire was to possess her. If he had been given the tiniest bit of nurturing by the adults in his life he may have been able to turn his yearnings as a young child into the basis for a giving, loving character, but he was not. Note the allusions to his regret at disparaging remarks and actions through the years. His reaction to the pain he caused Lily as a young child is only lightly tinged with the desperation for ownership shown at Hogwarts. Even as adults shortly before her death the love he shows is singular. Someone who truly loved without selfish motive would have been able to include everyone Lily embraced as well. He never did. His hatred for Harry was real and culminated in his dismissal of Harry from occlumency. That was purely self indulgent and a juvenile decision in which the memory of Lily played no part.

When you read the books more than once these nuances become more and more evident. Yet, Harry and Ginny were quite right, especially pairing Albus with Severus. Snape was indeed, through all his life based on what we know of his childhood, the bravest wizard presented to us. Loyalty to the kindness shown him by Dumblesore fueled a fierce emotion I doubt even he recognized.


Honestly, my addiction to this series is so sad. I need to get out more!

I disagree with you (first sentence especially). You know, there are many many reasons of Snape being so bad and nasty, and most of them were mentioned and explained in previous pages. I respect your opinion but Snape was good. You forget that before V. killed Snape, Snape saw snake in cage so he (Snape) insisted to find Harry, to tell him he is horcrux. And he loved lily, not harry. Maybe he would like Harry if he was a girl (lilys eyes, hair...). And Snape did good things, even if it was only for lily, but he did it. And thats something.

Snape...the prince's tale was by far, like most people have said already, the saddest chapter in the book...not because of the story as such (although it sorta explained, well... not explained, more like changed... a lot of things) but because someone that was portrayed as evil throughout the series was actually, i wouldn't say a hero, but a loyal and true person... strange, i sorta think i am beggining to understand why he was the way he was towards Harry, i mean, it must be pretty hard to see the kid, looking so much like your arch enemy, yet having the eyes of the one you loved, and still love... but lost. Harry was, in a way,a constant reminder of James, who he dispised so much... and Lily, who he loved, yet lost... that must be kinda hard, reminded of greif and hatred everytime potions came around.

Snape was truly an amazing wizard, he probably is better than LV, at Occlumency anyway, because all the time he would have to block his mind...is that right? He is probably the perfect example of unrecognised talent, he also proves that first impressions aren't always right...i think so anyways, cause he had me completely fooled.

If anyone would've told me after i had read the half blood prince "You'll cry over Snape in the last book" i'd have shook my head and denied it,he was a murderer after all... it was amazing how it all turned around, and how it was all explained...

Dumbledore was a true judge of charater all along, something i thought that he had got so terribly wrong with Snape, turned out to be right all along...


Snape was an amazing character and i think that only someone as talented as J.K could've done him justice... Well done again J.k!

I have to disagree. First of all, if "his life as a child beat the true understanding of love out of him," then Snape would have never agreed to protect Harry, nor would he have begged Dumbledore to protect Lily when Voldemort sought Harry out. Had he just been obessessed with her, as you say, then he more than likely would have gladly handed her family over to Voldemort in the hopes of having her for himself; however, he did not. He risked his life to save not only Lily, but Harry and James as well -- however grudgingly it may have been done, he still did it. In my opinion, to be willing to risk your life so that the woman you love and the man who was your cruelest tormenter will avoid death, and to continue risking it in order to protect the son that you hate, shows tremendous love -- and a "true understanding" of it, as well. The greatest testament to this is the fact that his Patronus mirrored Lily's... yes, there is no doubt that Severus Snape knew what real love is, and lived with it in his heart until his dying day.

Furthermore, Snape's animosity toward Harry stems from the fact that his father, James, went out of his way for entertainment's sake to ensure that Snape's life was complete misery, and then went on to marry Snape's greatest love. Of course he despises Harry -- he reminds him of James in every single way.

Snape was a good man. He was also hardened, unappreciated, and misunderstood, but a good man nonetheless. When you read the books more than once, these nuances become more evident.

I agree with you 100%, JessiMae82. Snape was a good man. And he did love Lily as a person, and did not want solely to possess her. That is what brought him fully back to the side of good. That is why he chose to protect her. That is why he chose to protect Harry. His dislike of Harry had more to do with the fact that James, who Harry greatly resembles and who won fair Lily's hand, was an arrogant toerag towards him. In short, Snape was a great and noble character. He will be sorely missed. Se gap lai nhe.

i beg to disagree with what you stated, what snape did have for lily was pure love indeed a great one. he did loved her as harry had said nearly all his life. it is clearly not about his desire to possess her because he could have done it anyway if it was only about that. yes it was an unrequited love on snape's part, but lily did love him although not on that level, a brotherly love. how can you say that snape's lvoe was selfish, his love for lily was so great that he sacrificed and devoted half his in saving and protecting lily's son with james his rival since hogwarts. the fiasco in the occlumency lesson was a result about harry seeing snape's worst memory, about snape calling lily a mudblood that resulted with the end of their friendship, it was not because of his hatred towards harry.

Just from the beginning we were drawn to think Snape was just a horrible person that was going to be a real pain for Harry's life. As we continued to read the books we started to see the true Snape, a person that was really brave and risked his life helping the Order by staying as a Death Eater to Voldemorts eyes. Then we were all shocked when he killed Dumbledore and then he was for most of us a traitor and real evil.
Deep within I just kept telling myself he must have act on Dumbledore's orders because it was just to easy, it had to be a plan. Thankfully as we all know it was and in one of the most incredible chapters of the series we find out about his love for Lilly which made Snape become good and do everything to protect Harry eventhough it was really a difficult thing to do for him because of Harry's physical resemblance to his father, all but the eyes.
The look at me part was just amazing, as he was looking into the eyes of his love while dying, really touching.
Snape was a brave noble person that loved and cared in his own way and when we understand that, he becomes s one of the greatest characters of the series.

I was a Snape-supported from the beginning. He is definitely the best, most dynamic, character in the series. We are made to doubt his motives again and again, yet it turns out that he is the only main character with pure and simple motives. Even Dumbledore was seduced by power.

Due to the fact that I never intended to read the series, I spoke to my mom on the telephone one day and I asked her what was wrong because it sounded like she had been crying. She told me that Dumbledore died, and I was like "what?" Didn't mean anything to me. So I knew that Dumbledore was going to die, by had no idea that it was by Snape! I was shocked and kinda hurt by that, but stuck with him.

The first time I read DH, I didn't understand that Snape was begging Voldemort to get Harry so that he could fulfil Dumbledores' request to tell Harry that he's a horcrux when Voldemort starts being protective of Nagini. At first I thought Snape was afraid and trying to appease Voldemort. I was glad to re-read and find that I was wrong on that account.

And the whole Lily's eyes thing, it's been talked about a lot, so I won't go into here, but yeah, touching.

I'm really glad that there wasn't some mushy make-up scene between Snape and Harry. I knew that he death was necessary for the plot. I'm glad that his character wasn't reduced to cheesy-ness. He probalby still dislikes Harry! I like to imagine Snape's face when he learns that Harry named his son after him. He would probably snicker and make some sardonic comment that only Snape could make. Probably doesn't appreciate the gesture in the least. Makes me giggle...

It's so good he turned out good.

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Very true that is! If Severus was a false friend to Voldemort but wanted to be convincing he would have to appear the he really hated Harry. No death eater was ever nice to Harry, I mean come on he was destined to kill their leader! If Snape was in any way fair to him then Draco for one would find that fishy and probably blab to Voldemort. I also believe that Severus saw it as a chance to finally get back at James. Seeing as Harry looked just like James inadvertently Severus would have been getting his own back. Severus how ever probably failed to see the similar qualities that Harry and his mother shared and concerntrated on the negatives in Harry which he shared with his dad like getting into trouble and being a bit of a big head ( James more so than Harry).
Anyway for anyone who says that Snape was out of line being mean to Harry...well it was in a way part of his job was it not? Anway if everyone loved Harry it would make his job at defeating Voldemort less of a journy and a thrill. Personally Harry to me isnt all he was cracked up to be. Yes he had a lot on his plate and he was great when it came to finishing off Voldemort but what about the people who supported him and helped him along the way? And of all people Snape risked his life a number of times without any recognition for his bravery, only to die at the merciless hands of Voldemort ordering Nagini to kill him.

Come to think of it do you remember the tale Dumbledore told Harry about Snape protecting Harry because James saved Severus's life? Well that wasnt entirely true now was it. Maybe the whole James saving Severus story was true but that wasn't solely the reason as to why Severus protected Harry. It was out of genuin love for Lily, and only real love could have given him the strength to refrain from handing Harry to Voldemort himself

I totally agree that the reason Severus was so mean to Harry was that he hated James. But really, he could have been a lot worse. Compared to Umbrigde, he really isn't all that bad. He was unfair, but he never tried to really hurt Harry. I think the fact that Harry was Lily's son stopped him from being completely cruel, even if he did still protect him.

Severus has always been my favorite character. He always came across as mysterious and complex. Plus, I always seem to take to the mean, hated characters in books, and Severus fits the bill perfectly. After reading DH especially, I have a lot of respect and admiration for Severus. I was absolutely furious and JKR when he died, and though I am over that now, I still am pretty depressed.

I think that Harry was really ungrateful when Severus saved his life and risked his own. I now they hate each other, but you would think Harry would at least show some graditude. I loved the fact that Harry did get to learn the truth about Severus, because I was half afriand that Severus would die, but Harry would never learn that he was truly loyal to DD, and always hate his memory (I had been counting on the fact that he was good, and if he wasn't, well, I would be pretty darn angry).

I know deatheater13! Harry was ungreatful about Snape saving his life in the first book. I mean sure the man was mean to him but like you said he was no Umbridge. She was Psychotic! Wonder what happened to her actually....

Harry should have learnt his lesson and realised that by getting into trouble where Severus was concerned or disrespecting him would only cause him further torment at the mercy of the potions master, after all he is a teacher and teachers are ALWAYS in the right or so they think they are just because they have authority lol. Harry must have felt like a total bone head when he found out Severus was true to Lily and Dumbledore until the end.Sure if Severus was still alive I doubt that they would be bosom buddies but Harry would have to eat his words when it came to underestimating Snape.The whole stereotyping of ALL Slytherin's being evil snobbish muggle born haters was wrong where Severus was concerned. He wasn't stuck up just cruel to Harry which now seems more logical than before. *sighs* I guess no matter how I dress it up some people will never understand and forgive Severus for his mistakes and for treating Harry the way he did but then again Harry is no saint either, he did come across as big headed especially in the final book, I got the impression that he was defeating Voldemort to avenge his parents more so than to save the wizarding and muggling world, but hey never the less he did it.

I know! I recently came across this comment here: I hate SS because hi hated HP and hi made his life miserable and all this things because hi hated his father but life is life
DD trust it him but I don’t and I will never trust him because hi is evil.
Ha! I laughed at that, thinking like everyone else: Did you actually read the book? Do you know what you're saying?
I guess you do have to read the books a few times to understand some stuff, but still by reading the Prince's Tale everyone should of realized that Severus was not evil and that he did not hate Harry personnally, he only didn't look to respect him because he reminded him greatly of James and Lily's death. We must remember that Severus didn't protect Harry because he wanted to protect Harry, he only did it for Lily. It didn't matter wether Snape liked Harry or not, because he was more of a James than a Lily. Like I said, Severus didn't have to respect Harry if he was doing all this for Lily, as protecting her son was the least he could do for Lily now that it was too late.

Now, I happened to stumble upon a comment that also said Severus Snape didn't love Lily but wished to possess her. I must deeply disagree with that, because if you think back, his patronus is a doe, and I don't think it would be if he didn't truly love her. Also, if he had really only desired to possess her he wouldn't of asked to protect Harry, seeing as Lily is dead it would be pointless.

well...i kept maintaining to my friends that he was going to be a hero, the prince of the series. it turns out i was right. and how weird: i felt both joy and sadness after reading the chapter.

it seems that life was somewhat unfair to him...miserable in school, lost the love of lily, became a death eater, then became a spy for dumbledore... hated by lots of ppl of a reason which is perfectly untrue...

...and his death. i imagined his death, if harry wasnt there. it was pathetic, and he deserves a more grand death that to be killed by a snake inside a small confined room like that.

i had only one thing to complain to jo about snape: his death. i thought, being the brave man he was, he deserved a better goodbye to the series.

YEah I agree it should have been a bit more dignified. HMPF! Glad to hear that you were a firm beliver in Snape too!
When someone said that Snape only wanted to posess Lily I dont really believe that either. He showed true love toward Lily throught being able to protect Harry. He would have probably acted foolishly trying to save her from Voldemort but his love for her made him act reasonably and he even tired to save all three of them.

Yes, very true! Had Snape not truly loved her he would of saved only her, but trying to save all of her family was much more resonable as he was able to see it was what she would of prefered. And he definitely did deserve a better death. Being murdered by a snake in a magical cage for Voldemort's desire of the Elder Wand was just pointless, s we see further that the wand was never Severus's. But it was still a poetic death, I loved the way J.K.R. ended it with the eyes thing!

That was the most beautiful moment ever! We got to finally see a softer side to Severus which I knew always existed where Lily was concerned!
As much as we all hated the way he died I couldn't have imagined him battling as he was a double agent so either side would be after him. I think it was nice to see that he was such an incredible wizard that he couldn't not even be defeated by Voldemort himself but a Snake had to do the job.

Defenetly the whole eyes thing made his death poetical.God I hat that snake! I never liked it I don`t know why...but now I have a reason
I think one of the reasons we like Snape that much is the fact that he had the power to be brave and loving (It`s obvious he loved Lilly v much) despite all of the things he had to go through in life
Usually with people it is the other way around...they pretend to be nice and they turn out to be nasty. But no, Severus dind`t want to show his true and wonderful feelings. He prefered to keep them quiet, not to brag about it.I think he was (funny thing) ashamed with his true self.Love makes everything posiible in the end. It just seems so...I think beautiful is the right word.

I don`t know if I would have liked/respected Snape that much if things would have happend in any other way. (maby just as u said a more heroic and useful death )