Here's a place to chat to your hearts content about our most secretive Headmaster! What do you think of his shady past, his connection with the people who know and love him, and if you feel he was justified in leaving Harry to deal with all he had to deal with.

This is a really tricky one- my emotions went up and down reading the history of Albus Dumbledore.

I love that he became more 'human' in the sense that he wasn't perfect and whatever he did wasn't always right. I loved reading the in memorium of him, as I feel that it was a beautiful tribute from a close friend, however in all honesty I was really skeptical about the Rita Skeeter article, because well... it's her.

It wasn't until the wedding, when others began talking about it that I saw it as being more than trying to ruin someone after they had died.

The history with Grindelwald, I don't think really contained enough. It could have been slightly more elaborated on. It goes on about the lead up to it and the fight, but then the next thing 'I won the duel' and Grindelwald is lcoked away...... ok...... so what happened?



In general though, I found his story a little dragged out. We'd be onto a new issue within the book and then the next thing, whoops- back to Dumbledore's life. Focus on this.... and we'll through in Dumbledore here too.

I enjoyed the final scene at King's Cross with Harry, as I thought it gave the two of them to finally discuss everything and for Dumbledore to be completely honest with him. Although I think if I was Harry I would have been a lot angrier at different points than he was.

It was nice that we finally got to see more of Aberforth, but I don't feel his story was covered as much as it could have been either. I kept waiting for more information, and then it never came.

You know what's the best thing I believe that came out of this book with regards to Albus Dumbledore? It's not that he's human and made mistakes, it's not that he's got skeletons in his cupboard, it's not that he carved power so never allowed himself to be entrusted with it. It's his innermost desire to master death.

All along Dumbledore has said that Death is nothing but the next great adventure. He was never afraid of dying and actually planned out his own death to bow out with dignity. Yet it was shocking to find that one man of whom this was least expected, made all attempts to "master" death. He allowed himself to be trapped by the materialistic attributes of Deathly Hallows and forgot his own lessons- Tom master death is to embrace it like a friend, like a long lost love. This is something that he explained to Harry during their interlude at King's Cross. After all these years, he allowed his deepest desires to cloud his judgment, and though I do not fault him for that, it does go on to show that all men have their fallacies till the very end. They never go away completely, the greatest among all, admit to them, others merely brush them aside or deny them altogether. Recall this sentence from Dumbledore



(Chapter 35: King's Cross: Deathly Hallows)

This was the thing about Dumbledore that hits you the hardest

*squeal*

So much in one book about my favorite character of all time!

But where to begin... I loved finding out that he was not as perfect as everyone thought him to be. He was pompous, arrogant and selfish... and that is how a lot of people are. Dumbledore was amazing, and he knew that, and when faced with the daunting task of caring for the family, he, like so many others, envisioned ways to relieve himself of this pressure.

Unlike other people, as is said, Dumbledore is brilliant. He was a master of Magic and respected by many... so what kind of solution would someone so great think up? Something equally great.. equally elaborate.. Dumbledore wanted his life back and he wanted to succeed. Obvious choice: Ressurect his parents. This display of humanism is fascinating when you keep in mind what we see him as in the series.

I was not surprised that he was best friends with Gellert Grindelwald. It echoes the epic of Beowulf in story (in a way) and in their very names. Beowulf, the hero, is similar to Dumbledore's middle name Wulfric.. and the brother of Beowulf is Grendel, the antagonist in the epic. We can see these reflected in the friendship and later parting of Albus and Gellert. It was especially interesting to see how their shared interest in the Hallows lead to the proposed regime for the "Greater Good". Albus, being human, allowed his own desires to mask what horrors that they were planning. Seeing the supposed 'good' in their policies rather than what they were really doing.

Sadly (or almost thankfully) they met a disagreement, killing Ariana, seemingly shaking Albus from what he was doing. This was Albus' turning point and he then moved to greater things from his mistakes. I find that very very appealing that Dumbledore made huge mistakes and learned from them, and became the great wizard he was (and is) up until his death.

I'm glad that Dumbledore met his demons head on by duelling Grindelwald... I am still unsure how Dumbledore won over the Elder wand in a duel, considering the Elder Wand was supposed to be invincible. I would very much like to know more about that.

Dumbledore then showed great restraint against the Hallows, possessing one and later finding a second (the Cloak). He realized his desires were wrong, and I believe he all but overcame them. It was sad that he gave in to the temptation of the Ring of Peverell, causing his early death... but the injury again jarred him into realizing his mistakes, thus allowing him to choose to die "for the greater good".


I still am not sure that Dumbledore's past changes what we know of his views on Death. As far as I know his original want of the Stone of Ressurection was to raise his parents from the Dead.. then later his Sister. Perhaps he would want to keep himself alive using the Hallows, to do good... but I believe his convictions on Death were genuine.

I am glad that we had one last sit down talk with Dumbledore at the end of the book. I loved the Chapter "King's Cross"... it was interesting to see that Harry was stuck in such a symbolic place. It is the place, after all, that bridged Harry's Magical World with his Muggle World. I really enjoyed that scene with Dumbledore, and his death is not so tragic to me... especially since he planned it.

I loved seeing into his past. It made him seem human and not like this super-perfect god-like person. It showed that he too has made errors in his past. It is really hard to imagine him as a child. I kept picturing this little boy - with a long white beard

At first, until you found out the whole picture my opinion of Dumbledore changed - how could he allow his sister to be kept in a basment like that when all she was guilty of was being a squib? But as you found out, that wasn't the story and my faith in him was restored. Whew..

Awful what happened to his poor sister - those awful muggles! I can see why his father did what he did. And then she met her end, what a tradgedy. That must have really destroyed Dumbledore.

The fact that he wanted to overcome death does not reduce my opinion of him in my eyes. He was just like any other person in that sense. Most people would not want to die if there was a way to prevent death - it just shows that he is human.

I'm having trouble understand something - so did him and Grindelwald plot to overule muggles? I didn't quite get that bit in the book.

Yes, you must remember that Grindelwald was also looking for the Hallows. He saw the skill and power that Dumbledore had, as well as their mutual lust for the Hallows, so I believe it was quite easy to persuade Dumbledore into following along with Grindelwald under the guise of 'for the great good'. It would have been even easier to persuade Dumbledore by reiterating the reason that he was stuck at home with his sister was because of what the muggles did to her.

Ahh I see... thanks for clearing that up for me

Yes, considering that it was because of muggles that his sister was destroyed and so therefore the family was destroyed, I'm not surprised that he would be feeling a little bit anti-muggle perhaps, and would be drawn into the idea of controlling muggles with some persuasion.

SPOILERS AHEAD

I'm with pixymajic and Albus Dumbledore here! So much information about one of my favorite characters!!!!! I also had a sense of being on a roller coaster. On the one hand, I was like "Don't say bad things about DD!!!!!" but on the other, learning about his past and how it explained things like why he wouldn't be a MOM and such was exciting!

I guess my thread in HBP has been answered!!!!! Who was JKR's favorite order member that we will learn more about in DH! Boy, there was not ONE right guess there! I guess we all thought we knew him.

OK, what do you think DD sees in the Mirror of Erised when he looks at it? Is it himself being a good guardian for Ariana (alive) and Aberforth, or his whole family together? Or did I miss the point altogether? I thought that the socks may have been a metaphor for the warmth and comfort of a loving family, but he seemed to have been fixated on Ariana in particular, because he let her down.

I believe it he would see himself with his family. It said someplace in the book that he understood greatly what Harry saw in the Mirror of Erised and that wizards like Voldemort couldn't understand that. I believe that Dumbledore would have seen the same thing. Both of them, Harry and Dumbledore, have had their families ripped apart by tradegy and they use that love to conquer evil. Dumbledore truly understands the power of Love.

There is no doubt in my mind that Dumbledore regrets his childhood and his early adulthood. He made grave mistakes and listened to fools who pulled at his heartstrings, who used his anger and resentment to pervert him toward Darker idealogies. I think that Dumbledore, since his awakening after Ariana's death, has worked hard and admirably to be a better person. No matter what Dumbledore did in the past, what he did thereafter has far outwieghed his mistakes, even though it all still haunts him, as we saw in the Cave.

I agree with Dumbledore leaving Harry with what he had to deal with he knew Snape was there on hand if things got bad and he had Ron and Hermione, Dumbledore said at the end of OOtP that he had not told Harry about the prophecy to protect him and he did the same with the fact that he had to die, he couldn't tell someone he loved that they would have to die for all the trouble to end!
He was a complex yet very simple man, he always gave the advice needed and never went into much detail as he believed that Harry should learn to discover things on his own, he needed to learn to be strong without Dumbledore if he was ever to defeat Voldemort.
I liked the fact that he was very much involved even though he was gone and that you learnt about his past and family, i was very upset when i thought he was the cause for his sisters death, but happy when we later learnt that even though he blamed himself it wasn't entirely his fault.
Dumbledore remains one of my favourite characters and it really intrested me to learn more about him.
And i do believe that he rally did love Harry, like a son, with all his heart!

I loved the mermorium near the beginning, I thought that was beautiful. Throughout the book I thought that elements of what was being said about him true was right and parts were wrong and I decided that I wasn't going to cast an opinion on him until it came from his own words - I was fairly certain we would hear his version of events. I love how Dumbledore was more humanised and that we actaully got to see his vulnerabilities; it made a fitting end to his character development.

Thanks, Albus Dumbledore! That was the feeling I got, too, but it all seemed to be wrapped up with Ariana, so I wasn't positive. Don't even want to imagine what she had in mind that the muggles did to her to "damage" her so badly!

I cannot believe how Dumbledore's life story played out. It killed to see that he had ever conspired to take over the world, and to put muggles under his control. That doesn't sound much better than anything Voldemort had planned.

It showed that but for a few random acts of chance, Dumbldedore could very well have been "the greatest Dark Wizard".

I always wanted him to be pure and perfect right until the end, but I guess nobody is, and so that is where his story comes in. It hurt me that Aberforth still seemed to hold some serious contempt for him, even after he had died. I like Dumbledore so much that I wanted to jump in the book and choke his brother, regardless of what he had done.

Although we see that Albus is not perfect in the end of this epic series, we still need to step back and appreciate all that he did for Harry, and also the brilliance that he showed in his overall plan. This includes his plans about the Elder Wand, Snape's deception of Voldemort and everyone around him, and also with the journey that he set harry upon in order to be able to find the Deathly Hallows in secrecy.

Truly a genius.

Yeah he was a genius. As it turns out, a genius who almost took over the world, was obsessed with glory. A genius who forgot to mention the crucial fact to Harry that he would need to be killed.

I think we see a much darker side to DD if we choose to accept the facts that are presented in the book

I've always loved Dumbledore's character! He was a great wizard, and a very smart person! He had most guesses right, and he always knew what to do, being fair and right!

The Memorium Doge wrote was really touching, and hate Skeeter now more than ever! She put it down so rudely and coldly!

His 'dark past' didn't seem so bad after all. Yeah, I know it was really bad from him to have ignored his sister and all. But it's human to do mistakes and he did act rightly after he had realized his mistakes. I think his greed to take over the Muggles and look at them like a lower race, was mostly because of what happened to his sister, and the way it affected her, after that he seems to have changed completely; forgetting about his mom, sister, and brother Abeforth.

He was a true genius, and I was really sad that he had to die like that... Without anyone knowing why, and he took all his knowledge with him.

I think Dumbledore saw himself holding/wearing the Resurrection Stone in the mirror. He says he "gave way to my innermost desires" when he found it, and that's what made him forget it was a Horcrux and put it on.

Also, DD marveled at how Harry, in a very similar situation, simply saw himself there with his lost loved ones. Dumbledore, even then, was not truly able to accept what had happened to his family. Though he probably wished it was different, the mirror showed him that his deepest desire was still to have the stone and try to "overcome" death with it. Perhaps it was seeing how Harry then was so different than himself that it would have to be Harry and not himself to overcome Voldemort.

Perhaps AFTER putting on the stone and finally realizing his mistake, if he had the chance, then he would have seen himself with his lost loved ones as Harry did from the start.

Personaly, I was rather glad to read about Dumbledore, even though it was not nice or good about him, it reveals a part of his past that you always wondered about while reading the amazing series of Harry Potter. It showed that he was human and made mistakes, no one should be judged by their past for it takes mistakes to learn what is right and what is wrong. His role in the Harry Potter series was a kind, smart, and patient wizard, which is rightfully his to have. There is no way to take things back after you have done them, so might as well learn to cope.




JellyBelly

i was disgusted with rita skeeter at first because from previous books we know she only ever wrote mean hurtful lies to sell newspapers minus the interview with harry that went in the quibbler

however i thought there must be some story behind him

and when we found the truth from aberforth i felt sorry but dsapointed in the fact that dumbledore had once been like that

it was a very good part of the story i thought as w never have learn anything in previous books about dumbledores family apart from the fact that he had a brother called aberforth and they were alike in some ways

I thought that it was amazing that Jo finally gave Dumbledore a more human side. We have always seen him as this brillant, wise character and there is really no way that he could have become the person he is without a few skeletons in his closet. That was very well done, especially finally finding out what he would have seen in the Mirror of Erised and what he was experiencing when he drank the potion. It also explained a lot about how Harry was able to destroy the Horcruxes much more easily (after seeing Dumbledore's blackened hand I didn't think Harry would have been able to do it, but it was just because he knew it was a hallow that could bring back the dead).

It almost killed me when it was revealed that Dumbledore intended for Harry to die along, but it all turned out all right in the end. He was a brillant man.

My favorite part was at King's Cross Station as they finally got to reveal everything and understand one another. It was adorable!!!! He really did care about Harry, and it was good to see that he didn't put his trust in the wrong person (regarding Snape). I'm glad that it was love that lead Dumbledore to trust Snape (Snape's love for Lily).

I wonder why Dumbledore felt it was necessary to hide all of this from Harry before he died. We already knew that DD wasn't perfect, he has admitted himself in previous books. Something along the lines of his mistakes being much larger because he was smarter than most.

I was so frustrated with him for keeping all this crucial information from Harry for so long. I know that sometimes it helps to learn things for yourself, but it could have been alot easier along the way, and we might have seen alot of people less people dead.

I blame alot of the deaths in this book on the lack of information from Dumbledore

I was kind of upset learning about DD's past. He always seemed sort of goofy in the earlier books. I do like that it showed how DD wasn'y all that perfect and that he had made some mistakes back in the day.

It was a bit of a shocker and i didn't see a lot of it coming. But it just goes to show how people can change. He has this fark past but becomes this hero in the end. The DD thing with his parents was so sad. That he was act of love that brought his downfall. But i would have done it if i was him. To bring them back. It was his mistake. As he says "Being cleverier than most men means my mistakes are corrispondingly huger!"

And his stuff connecting him with the wand and Grindewald was very intresting i'll admit.

I really resisted believing anything bad about Dumbledore. I didn't want anything to tarnish my image of him. In the end I was able to make peace with his past, and to forgive his use of Harry. Dumbledore is still a great character.

i loved dumbledore's story; you never really know anything about him in previous books, so it was nice to have him humanised, in a way. i dont mind his past; everyone has a shady youth, and he had the best intentions at heart; at least he saw sense.

i dont thin he used harry, it was just how it had to be

Wouldn't it be great if J.K wrote "The life and lies of Albus Dumbledore" as a spin off book, like she did with fantastic beasts and where to find them, and quidditch through the ages. I think that would be great

I hated reading the stuff that Rita Skeeter wrote about Dumbledore, who had been so great and wise throughout the first six books and I could see myself standing there and shouting to her: 'Don't say anything bad about Dumbledore!'. I still don't like the fact that Dumbledore was an arrogant little git who did not care for his family but only for his own fame and I can't stand Rita being right about one of the things she wrote.

Maybe it is good that Ariana died, because this was the event which made Dumbledore think about what he was going to become and separating from Grindelwald. Just imagine how evil and powerful Dumbledore would have been as a Dark Lord, much more terrible than Voldemort.
Yet in his reaction to Ariana's death Dumbledore showed why he was better than Voldemort: Dumbledore loved his sister and thus he began to regret what he (eventually) had done.

The two things that I am unsure about: What would've happened if Harry would not have seen the memory where Dumbledore explains Snape why it was necessary that Harry died? Because in my opinion this was the only reason for Harry accepting Death and thuis conquering it. Would he have died otherwise? Sorry if this is off topic.

And: Did Dumbledore know what would happen to Harry when he accepted his own death and did not fight against Voldemort (at first)? Because if not, he would have accepted that Harry died and no one would be left to fight Voldemort. This seems to be just too evil to be Dumbledore...

I believe he did. If you remember, the Snitch said 'I open at the close'. Dumbledore knew Harry would know when he was going to die.. he knew that Harry would realize that he needed to die to make Voldemort weaker.

Evidence to suggest that Dumbledore knew of the amazing event that allowed Harry to defeat Lord Voldemort in the end was his enigmatic glimpse of triumph in GoF when Voldemort took his blood. Dumbledore knew then, I believe, that Harry was bound to Voldemort, as Voldemort was bound to Harry.

As my sister puts it, he could have very easily been the next Voldemort or teamed up with him. Dumbledore was power hungry. That explains why he never became Minister of Magic.

I never would have thought him to be anything except a rightfully powerful and loving wizard.

Its just strange that what I thought of snape, turned out to be dumbledore.

Reverse Personalitys.

I think we need to take a look at things as whole here. I find it particularly worrying that because everyone learns of Dumbledore's past, that is overshadows his overcoming of his transgressions.

Dumbledore made mistakes, yes, but he has sought to amend them. Nothing Dumbledore did in the past can change what good he did in the Future. It seems we are all floored at the realization the "The Only One He Ever Feared" had a less than savory past and now we seem to forget his amazingly good future. We forget all he has done after he awoke from his bout of wrongdoing.

I personally will not diminish anything Albus Dumbledore has done because of a bit of youthful musings of power and domination, or conquering Death... all of which he has forsaken to lead a better life.

It is strange how we came to think of DD as a saint, that he had no flaws. He was just a man who has desires and acts on them. I was sad when I read how trapped he felt at home, like his family was a burden. If it is our choices that make us who we are, then I believe he chose to become all that everyone hoped him to be. What I can't come to grips with is the fact that he knew all along the fate of Harry and never mentioned it to Snape or Harry. Was he distraught about it? Because in "The Prince's Tale" it sounds like it doesn't really bother him, you know? Like knowing that Harry had to die and orchestrating the whole plan was very routine for him: it did not seem any more to him than just a plain fact. He was not showing any remorse, or using his exceptional brain to figure out a way around it. It was like, Oh well, some have to die for the greater good.

Dumbledore knew that Harry's death meant the salvation of the Wizarding World and acted on that.

To understand this logic, you must understand the idealogy of "for the greater good". Imagine having the power to save many many lives by giving up one life. It's similar to this dillemma:

Imagine Dumbledore is standing on a cliff.. on one side is Harry, dangling over the edge... and on the other side is the rest of the Wizarding Community. What would you do? Dumbledore had a choice and he knew that Harry would have to die to save the rest of the people from Voldemort.




But we know that to be untrue. He set the clues for Harry to find the Deathly Hallows, Dumbledore's last effort to save Harry from death should he be wrong about the circumstances involving Harry's blood being used in the Ressurection of Voldemort. It's not that he didnt care, he just knew it had to be done... but in the end, Dumbledore found a way for Harry to live.

I always wanted to read that he had a blood relation with Harry, something that did not happen...
But it was good to show the dark side (if you can call it like that) of Dumbledore...
Even heroes have weak points, and it was time for us to know his. However, thanks to his story, we get to know some things that should have ended unresolved... So they were not as bad as the seemed, were they?

After all, everything went just fine, and we at last know he was about to die, in either way...

I was always fond of him, he is an example. And with all these facts, he's a greater example now! He could overthrow all his desires to help the magic world and help Harry win the battle...
He was too wise to not recognize his mistakes, and finally, we heard directly from the horse's mouth. He knew he had been mistaken, and he apologized.

now this one definitley shocked me... i cannot believe at all that one point dumbledore was greedy and practically evil... i cannot believe about ariana and how he may have killed her he just never struck me as that type of person. i also secretly wanted to believe that he was harry's distant relative or something. it also shocked me that dumbledore had enver given harry more information cause they definitley could of used it. also i did not like that dumbledore had been planning harry's death since the day he was born. i know he just wanted to save the wizarding world and all but still thats just not right

I agree with Pixymajik and mayfair on Dumbledore. I found it a little like when a child understands their parent is not a divine all knowing being. I was happy it was shown he was just as imperfect as us, and I felt many emotions while reading the book about him, everything from sympathy, to anger, to love, to sadness, and it goes on.

I really agree with Mayfair on this point of Dumbledore though, his want, his desire to master Death! Of all people we weren't really led on to believe Dumbledore wanted this at all. It was shocking to me but also not. I'm happy he finally found truth within himself and shared it with Harry.

I was reading a post earlier and really wouldn't it be neat to have biographies on our main characters?

Yup.

But the part that amazed me was the ring part where he had the curse and snape was trying to help him.

Then dumbledore was told he wasn't thinking of the curse and snape said he should have been thinking to not touch it.


Hense, 'One Year to Live'

I don't really think that Dumbledore wanted to master death solely for himself... as in becoming immortal. As far as I understood, he merely wanted to master death so far that he could bring back his parents, thus relieving the pressures of his family off of him. After the death of Ariana, he felt so horrible for the way he was acting that he only wanted to bring Ariana back. We saw this evident in his wearing of the Gaunt Ring.. the chance that he might have seen Ariana again was so overwhelming that he forgot the dangers of the Horcrux... so what I am trying to say is that Dumbledore did not want to master death, I believe, in the same way that Voldemort did.

When I first read that Dumbledore told Snape that Harry would have to die, I thought he felt no sadness about it. But after I thought about it I think he guessed that Harry wouldnt really die because of LV using Harry's blood.


On the whole, I'm glad he had some flaws. No one is perfect. I'm just glad he was able to overcome his childhood desires.

The next thing you know is " ....I won the duel..." Did DD duel him (Grindewald) for the wand or was it like DD said, and he did it because Grindewald was such a bad, evil wizard. It just makes me wonder.....

I like that DD was not 100% goody two-shoes all his life but was pretty nasty at least for a couple months then he chose to be the best good guy he could possibly be. But he was power hungry at one point in his life and became afraid of that hunger and that is why he would never accept the Minister of Magic position even though it was offered to him year after year after year.

It made me think back to book 6 when DD picks up Harry from the Drusley's house and they step out and Harry say's something like aren't you afraid of being attacked? and DD says "no" and Harry asks "why" and DD say's "because yor're with me" (this is all on pages 57 and 58 of HBP) - anyway if you do go back you'll see that DD has the wand, and has told Harry to "bring the cloak", and DD is wearing the ring/stone (which you find out when the get to Slughorn and Slug notices the ring/stone) . All three of the Deathly Hallows are with them at that point - and DD knew it and yet he tells Harry not to worry because after all Harry is with him. I guess it was easier to just say that then to explain about the 3 Hallows and that the person who holds all three is the most powerful of all - even though DD only had two and Harry had the one (cloak). Interesting character, that Dumbledore.

The theme to Dumbledore is always telling Harry only what he needed to know, and nothing else. After Harry to chose the way that he acts, Dumbledore would be able to explain it to him after. When he made sure that Harry had to die in order to kill Voldemort, he did so by making Snape tell him only at the nearest moment. By ensuring this, he knew how Harry would act and had "guessed" what the end result would be.

I still love Dumbledore as a character. I knew there would be some truth to Ria Skeeter's book, but who doesn't have things that haunt his/her past? Dumbledore lived to be well over 100 years old---he was bound to make some mistakes. I feel that he more than rectified himself by not only defeating Grindewald, but by recognizing his weaknesses/faults and not acting on them. He turned down the Ministry of Magic position numerous times because he was afraid of how he would handle the power. He knew that he had to stay somewhere that he could influence young wizards, but not take advantage of excessive power.

Lastly, he also tried to rectify himself with the Elder Wand, but not using it to kill others. Theoretically, he could have killed Voldemort in the Ministry of Magic in Book 5, but he chose not to. Voldemort even questioned him in that battle about why he was not using killing spells. I have a lot of respect for Dumbledore as a character and he remains one of my favorites!

I won't deny that I really can't stand Dumbledore. After Book V where Dumbledore allows Umbridge to torture and destroy everything good that comes of Hogwarts, I didn't think that his low standing (between Voldie and Umbridge) could sink even lower. And then I read Book VII. Regarding his friendship with Grindlwald and his radical views in his youth, I really don't care. Many people have radical views when younger and they wise up to them. However, Dumbledore orchestrated all of the events in the series. His actions led to hte Deaths of Sirius and Snape at least. By neglecting to tell Harry about the prophecy, he led Harry to believe Sirius was in danger and by doing so Sirius was killed. When he found the horcrux, in his pride and arrogance and greed, he put on the ring and thus profoundly shortened his life. He then orchestrates his death at the top of the Astronomy tower so that he will be "betrayed" by a friend and still go out on top (in a painless manner if I may add). This leads everyone to believe Snape to be evil. Snape is now even more isolated than ever before in his life. By killing his friend Dumbledore, Voldie assumes that Snape has the elderwand and Voldie kills Snape in the most undignified way imaginable. And all this time while Snape attempted to help Harry and keep him alive Dumbledore was tweaking the circumstances of Harry's death. Dumbledore's life was one of lies and secrecy. Some would argue that DD only did what had to be done. However, Dumbledore has had a great publicist and is seen as a noble and chivalrous character when in reality he is the epitomy of Machiavellian prowess and cunning. He was as cold and calculating as Cesare Borgia. And yet, after all of this, DD has an untarnished reputation of brilliance and kindness and noblity that he does not deserve. In essence, he used Harry as a fisherman uses a worm--as bait. He did not care whose lives were destroyed in the process. In short, I really wish Dumbledore's death was harsher and even more horrible than it was in Book VII. He should have been forcefed to a box of hungry skrewts. Se gap lai nhe.

You do realize that Dumbledore had no obligation to organize any of this, right? He had no obligation to seal Lily's Love Charm, to protect Harry for years, to organize the Anti-Voldemort resistance Order... he had no bound duty to any of this... and yet you still blame him for the mistakes he made in his attempt save Harry as well as the entire Wizarding Community.



What could he do? He needed to be a free man to fight Voldemort and lead the Order... standing up against the Ministry in regards to Umbridge at Hogwarts would have landed everyone is quite a predicament. He was already ostricized from the Community for speaking out about Voldemort...he only stood out against the Ministry when it spared Harry from expulsion.



Dumbledore orchestrated the events to save the entire wizarding community from oppression under Voldemort! He had no obligation, yet he did so on his own free will. He realized it was a mistake to not tell Harry, but he could not tell Harry, or Voldemort would have known about the full Prophecy through the link in their minds. You must also give credit to Dumbledore attempting to have Severus teach Harry occlumency to guard Harry from the visions that would lead to the Death of Sirius.



Pride, arrogance, and greed?!? He had the desire to see his dead sister again! I suppose Harry is full of arrogance, pride and greed for wanting to see his dead parents...



Snape chose this path, one could say, when he chose to be a Death Eater. He joined a group he knew was evil and then attempted to make amends to what he did. By being employed with Voldemort, he inadvertently killed Lily Potter... his love... and told Dumbledore he would do anything to make things right again... being isolated in life is nothing compared to the fates of many he doomed while was a Death Eater.





Are you serious? Dumbledore transcended his faulty youth to become one of the most powerful, if not THE most powerful, wizard in history... he defeated his friend Grindelwald, fought Voldemort in the first war, fought for Muggle-born/Muggle protection laws, and aided the ENTIRE Wizarding Community in being relieved of Lord Voldemort's reign through his cunning, intellect, decisions and skill. There is NO reason he should be regarded as anything but brilliant. He fought for what was right, no matter what he did in his past.

OK, let's turn for a moment to Dumbledore's timeline (as we now know it) ... and what does it tell you?

c. 1843 -- Birth.

c. 1847 -- Birth of his brother Aberforth.

c. 1849 -- Birth of his sister Ariana.

c. 1857 -- Ariana attacked and permanently harmed by three
- Muggles.
- His father is sent to Azkaban for attacking the Muggles.
- The family moves to Godric's Hollow.

c. 1861 -- (summer) He leaves school with top honours. Already
- marked by his teachers and examiners as a wizard of exceptional
- talent, the wizarding world lays at his feet, but first he plans to
- travel the world with Elphias Dodge for a year, the customary
- Grand Tour.

- His mother unexpectedly dies. He is head of the family now.
- He cancels his Grand Tour and stays home to care for Ariana.

- (winter) Gellert Grindelwald visits him.

- (winter-spring) Two months with Grindelwald, who inflames
- his resentment at being stuck at home, infects him with a desire
- to find the Hallows, and encourages his discontent with the way
- the world is governed.

- (Easter break) He is sharply rebuked by Aberforth, who is
- disgusted to find his brother and Grindelwald drawing plans for
- world domination.
- He comes back to his senses and there is a violent row with
- Grindelwald, at which Ariana dies.
- Grindelwald flees and Dumbledore is full of remorse.


All this happens before Elphias Doge is back! Dumbledore's error was certainly short-lived.

Dumbledore "helped Grindelwald". I find this significant. Grindelwald would have wanted to continue his partnership with Dumbledore, and he would have done everything he could to encourage Dumbledore's ambitions and throw wool in his eyes about his own purposes, to keep availing himself of Dumbledore's superior mind.

Am I the only one to think that it was Grindelwald who killed Ariana, and that he did it so that Dumbledore would no longer be bound to the duty to stay at home, and it would be easier to persuade him to remain with Grindelwald and their plans for the Greater Good?

The combination of Aberforth and the death of Ariana not only made Dumbledore realize the true designs of Grindelwald -- it also made him appalled at his own blindness in his search for power. Of course he blamed himself for his sister's death!

I am convinced that these events instilled a deep fear of power in Dumbledore. Isn't it ironic that his greatest bravery was to answer to that fear? It would have been all too easy for him to take command of the wizarding world and work towards achieving "the Greater Good". But he wasn't going to challenge "unsuitable wizards" ever again. He was like Gandalf refusing the One Ring, time and again. He didn't want that temptation.

Yet he was brilliant, and human. What was he going to do with his life? What happened in the time between the 1860s and finding him a Hogwarts professor mounting the steps of Tom Riddle's orphanage in 1937?

He must have spent decades, if not more than half a century, dedicated to study. He spent a long time with Nicholas Flamel. Did his proximity to the Philosopher's Stone reawaken temptation? Maybe being with Flamel helped him to set aside his wish to be the Master of Death, or Master of anything. It may have been his last fancy and the thing that decided him to become a teacher -- "to be safe at Hogwarts".

It's also remarkable that he came out of his safe seat to challenge Grindelwald in 1945. I still believe that he did that to prevent Tom Riddle, who was going to finish school that year, from seeking Grindelwald out and learn from him. And now we know he had an extra reason to be afraid of that : the Elder Wand! He definitely would not want Riddle to have it.

So... think of the great gap in Dumbledore's Tale of Years -- more than 76 years at least, a lifetime. And all we know is that he had been with Flamel, found some wisdom, refused the post of Minister for Magic, and got Fawkes as a pet. Isn't it telling that Rita Skeeter has not been able to find any wrongdoing in Dumbledore's past more recent than when he was eighteen or nineteen? Dumbledore was 155+ years old when he died!

I was over Dumbledore the moment he died. And it felt to me like this book was more about him then Harry. It was like he was more obsessed with Dumbledores past then with finding the Horcruxes. Sure, it's nice to know about him, but there was way too much.

The fact that he was friends with Grindelwald didn't surprise me. Of course he'd make friends with someone as smart as himself. Smart people stick together because they can have better conversations. And in DD's case there was someone who felt the same way he did about Muggles. And I can see why DD was attracted to him. But that shouldn't be something to shove in his face or feel bad about. How many people out there in the real world were childhood friends with someone who has turned out to be a bad guy? A fair few of us I can assure you. It's the same in the HP world. Just like the fact that Voldemort and Harry are distantly related, that they are all distantly related. DD found someone to share his wisdom with and in return got the friendship he desired at that time. I personally would have loved to see him as a bad guy. That would have been awesome!

His family is the same as some peoples as well. Mother left to take care of a disabled child. The children left to their own devices. Although not in the every day world does the mother die and then the child feel like their responsible when the sibling dies. I can see how that changed him. Deep down I think DD was never wanting to hurt people, just wanting to keep them in line. Which becoming the Headmaster did for him, in the end. I also think that not knowing whether or not he cast the spell that killed his sister made him more willing to accept people afterwards. We know he befriended anyone before that but I think to make up for it he made sure he saw the good in everyone, no matter where they came from.

He's still not my fav and I hated how he used Harry for his own devices but you've got to admire how he knew everything. That's pretty cool.

I have a question. Going back to the end of HBP, DD and Harry flew back to the astronomy tower. DD told Harry to go get Snape. Why? Was it to have Snape cure DD of the poison he had drunk in the cave OR was it to have Snape there ready to kill DD if the situation arose OR was it to get Harry out of the way?

Sorry this is a little , but I do not think it warrants its own forum, and I want opinions. Thanks.

Well, seeing as it was nearly a year after he was attacked, Dumbledore's time was lessening, he also had planned for Snape to kill him. Dumbledore saw the Dark Mark and told Harry to get Snape.. Snape had to kill him to spare Malfoy's soul and provide Snape with the cover he needed to get deeper into Voldemort's regime.

Basically, Dumbledore called Snape to kill him for was dying of multiple ailments already. (potion from cave, cursed-arm)

I agree with you. There is a darker side to DD if we look at all the facts that there are infront of us. But Who would expect DD to be like that anyway. Throughout the last SIX books I always saw DD as a noble, loyal, brave, and extremely friendly person to be with, And he is still like that except in the DH its like a reflection in the same mirror.

I was bewildered at what i read in the DH!!
I had always expected DD 2 be very perfect, but i really liked the impact that JKR had put on me and on every one else! I mean it just goes 2 show that no-one is really that perfect....Not even the great Albus Dumbledore!

I wouldn't really see DD as anything SELFISH, or dominating, but who wouldn't feel that curious when it comes to The Deathly Hallows. I mean u do feel quite a bit of sympathy towards DD, when you learn about his family past-- I supose he just was missing Ariana , and practically his own family.

I think he felt a bit guilty aswel.

I mean..who wouldn't ????

I think even though he didnt come back to life, the D.H still had a really happy ending. And harry still got to see him (even though he was kinda not alive) and got to say a proper goodbye

I loved how J.K. Rowling made Dumbledore have flaws. It made me like him even more because he isn't perfect and that he learned from his mistakes. That because of those mistakes he became the greatest sorcerer in the world. I just felt more towards DD knowing that he isn't perfect.

The Life and Lies of Albus Dumbledore...well, i knew bits of it wasnt going to be true because it's Rita Skeeter, but nevertheless it still tarnished my veiw of Dumbledore. But, hey, he's a person and everyone makes mistakes. I wouldnt have ever guessed that of Dumbledore, but he definitley redeemed himself. Go Dumbledore!