SPOILER ALERT

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After learning their pasts - Snape's being surprisingly innocent and Dumbledore's not-so-much, who do you have more respect for now? Dumbledore, who has turned out to have a far more sinister past than we could have ever expected, or Snape, who has a darker past, but an incredibly brave and heroic ending.

Who would you give your seat up for first?

Really think about it.... I know I have spent hours going over and over it....

-thesolitaryone-

Snape. Undoubtedly. The man had more courage, more dedication, and had endured more pain than anyone in the series, aside from Harry himself. Dumbledore's past was...well...chequered, yes, but that makes him more human in my book than anything else. So he wasn't quite as innocent as everyone liked to believe - okay. But Snape...he's in a league of his own. He stayed true to himself, despite the temptations to the "dark side" which, I suspect, grew more from pain and rejection and a desire to be accepted than a need for domination, which seems to have driven Dumbledore.

So definitely Snape. 100%. The man deserves the Order of Merlin, First Class.

Definitely Snape. He is just the best. Holding his love for Lily in all those years and finally revealing it to her son. That was gutsy. He didn't have the best time but one thing that was sure and certain was that he did everything (from the first book and possibly before) for Lily's son. To preserve her life in Harry. It was something not many people could do, teach the child of the woman you loved, whose features resembled her so much.

Dumbledore on the other hand. I don't like how he treated Harry, never telling him things til it was too late. That annoyed me. He might have been a great wizard but nothing he did could be compared to Snape. He might have loved Harry but in the end it was Snape who saved them all.

It has to be Snape. Dumbledore, in the end, showed his true colours, he made too many mistakes where HArry was concerned, yet Snape, despite his past, was steadfast in what he knew he had to do.

He remained loyal and never once cracked under pressure.

Good old Snapey!

In my eyes there were three ok, 4 great wizards in the series....and I think Snape must now come out as no.1

I do agree with you, but Dumbledore does have his merits,

I mean, yes, he left things too late to tell Harry, his past became very dodgy and he ended up losing a lot of respect, but he was still like the Godfather. He planned everything, he was the master. He provided the clues for both the Hallows and the Horcruxes and though he was a bit of a stuck up child, he was very gracious in death and had he not been there, the entire world would have crumbled. Even after death, he lingered on not only in moral and emotional spirit, but in ideology, for Harry could never have become the man he did had it not been for Dumbledore.

I would probably give my seat for Severus and all he sacrificed, but I'd give the pole I was holding on to stay steady on the train to Dumbledore. I do have very much respect for both of them...

I just thought Dumbledore and all he has done needed a mention.....

-thesolitaryone-

No suprise here... I voted for Dumbledore.

Why you may ask? Well, as many of you, it has to do with the past of each of the characters. Dumbledore and Snape both lost loved ones, naturally, but their actions after their losses show their admirality.

First is Dumbledore. He lost his parents and sought the Hallows to rectify their deaths, relieving him of the pressures of caring for the Family. In his search for the Hallows, he gets mixed up with Gellert Grindelwald and his sister dies.. this changes Dumbledore's entire attitude. He then rose to defeat Grindelwald and became the wizard we know. Yes, he didn't tell Harry what he was doing and yes it was nearly too late half of the time, but Dumbledore's (and Grindelwald's) motto of old was "for the greater good". I personally support "for the greater good" policies when they are reasonable and just... not opressing muggles, but if lying to a teenage boy and keeping things from his allows for the eventual destruction of the Dark Lord... I support Dumbledore in that.

Snape on the other hand has Lily and slowly loses her. She shows her dislike in the Dark Arts and the things he is involved in and yet he still presses further into that field with his Death Eater friends. He loses Lily the first time when he calls her a mudblood and she doesn't want to talk to him. This should be enough for him to change his ways, and yet he doesnt... he eventually enteres the Service of the Dark Lord, reports the Prophecy and inadvertently gives Lily away to Voldemort. Now he is desperate and asks Dumbledore for help to save her... but she dies. It takes Snape losing Lily TWICE to realize the path he should be on.

Both are great men... both have shown bravery and cunning, the skills needed to keep Harry alive all of these years. Both cared for Harry in a way, different kinds of caring perhaps, but caring nonetheless. Both are respectable, but I feel that Dumbledore deserves more of my respect because he changed his ways before things got out of hand and has worked hard for many Ministry policies including Muggle Rights and non-wizard rights.

But you all expected nothing less from me, eh? C'mon, it's Dumbledore!

i can't decide, because i have a different type of respect for either.

Snape is the king of person i find intriguing, at least. if i knew him as a person, not only character, i'd be fascinated by him and become his friend, perhaps even lover, because his misterious aura and hushed up suffering are exactly the things i find fascinating in a man. i see a sort of dark beauty in him, but the one who discovers it and is permited to be let in can probabily become the happiest woman on earth, if she apreciates it like she should.

Dumbledore, on the other hand, i see not as a man, but as a mentor, this could be because his age also grants him wisdom and the respect of others. regarding his "youth sins" , he "grew out of them" so to speak and redeemed himself a hundred times over.


so i have mad respect for both of them, but in different ways.

Mod Edit: You don't need to use the Spoiler tags inside the Deathly Hallows forum. Only outside. It's good that you use them but everyone who comes in here does it at their own peril if they haven't read the books.

I choose Dumbledore. Snape was great for what he did for Lily but overall Dumbledore seemed like a better person. I mean, Dumbledore never went out of his way to sneer at students, treat them horribly, or act like a prick to all students but Slytherin. So it was great for Snape to do what he did but thats about the only thing he has done. Dumbledore is the better man overall.

As much as I now respect Snape (I can't believe I'm saying this - I always hated him, even thoughI thought he would turn out good!) I respect Dumbledore more. While they both had terribly sad pasts, Snape allowed it to turn him into a bitter, mean-spirited man who took his frustrations out on others. Dumbledore at least was able to rise above that. Of course, if Snape had lived as long as Dumbledore, he might have also, eventually - but I doubt it.

Of course, I'm terribly uncomfortable about the idea of Dumbledore not telling Harry that he was a horcrux. On the other hand, I can see his predicament. I think he was in a really terrible situation where he had to make a terrible decision, and I would have understood it either way. I think he's fallibility just goes to show how Harry really is the better man (even if Dumbledore is more skilled) and is therefore truly the one worthy of bringing down LV.

With all the wisdom in the series, Dumbledore is still the most respected. However, Snape is rightly ranked among the great headmasters of Hogwarts. It's so appropriate to place his name after Dumbledore's for Harry's second son.

I, ultimatly, respect Dumbledore more. Despite all the shady things he did in his past, I truly believe that, at the time Harry met him, he was, all in all, a good person.
When it comes to Snape, I feel that I admire him more than I respect him. Maybe if he washed his hair a little more off and gave detention to Harry a little less, I might've voted differently. See, it's the little things that make a difference.

I can't choose between the two. Snape and Dumbledore were both incredible wizards in their own ways, and with their own methods.

The funny thing is that until the end of Half Blood Prince, Dumbledore and Snape tended to display only the attributes of their respective houses. In the Deathly Hallows, Dumbledore is portrayed as being a lot more ambitious and Snape a lot more courageous! This reinforced the point Rowling has made throughout - as members of Hogwarts, all the characters had a bit of every founder in them. Gryffindor isn't "better" than Slytherin, it just values different qualities and that the school is stronger when it is united.

Definitely Severus Snape. He was such a brave and wise man because he had the courage to be a spy for Dumbledore and risk his own life. He obeyed every single order that Dumbledore gave to him. He never was appreciate by nobody (few exceptions), and he closed inside of him realising in this way to make everybody hate him. At the end from my point of view he died like a hero.

I don't mean to demean Snape's actions--they were great and clearly took a lot of courage--however, I got the feeling that unlike Dumbledore, who seemed to be doing things, working his plan for the greater good, Snape was far more self-serving in his actions. I mean let's face it, the only reason he does anything for the good side is because of his infatuation with Lily and desire to make his mistakes up to her. Even at the very end, in his tale when Dumbledore asks him if he is helping Harry for Harry or his father's sake he says it's not for them, it's for her [Lily]. The fact that he was only doing it for Lily doesn't, in my opinion, diminish the difficulty of his duty and danger of the situation he voluntarily put himself in, however, when it comes to who do I respect more it is Dumbledore because unlike Snape the impetus for Dumbledore's actions is a genuine affinity for the cause. Snape seems to be acting out of guilt.

I have to agree with Nimbus on this one, although it was really hard to choose. Both DD and SS lost someone very important to them early in their lives. And both of those deaths led them to rethink the actions that they had been pursuing up until that point. However, Snape had Lily telling him what he was getting into was no good, and Dumbledore didn't have the luxury of someone telling him what he was getting into was no good. He was the head of his household, and even though Aberforth was there to reign Dumbledore in, I don't think that Aberforth even knew what Albus was up to until it was too late. Snape had a choice to either give up the whole Death Eater thing, as Lily had urged him over and over, or not. He only chose the right path after he realized what was going to, and eventually did, happen to Lily. Why did he have to be so stubborn!?!?!?

I agree. I voted for Sev, but i cant get over it! He could of been with her! Married her! Had a child with her! He is stubborn! But i still love him!! Though i will never get over it..

I voted for Dumbledore, Snape proved himself to be a good person beyond the sneering and cruel personna that the outside world saw. But, Dumbledore did more for Harry and for wizard-kind than any other person.

In Deathly Hallows we learn that he is by no means perfect. He did wrong in his past, yet his desire to control muggles can be put down to what the muggle children did to his sister, and the excitement of finding an intellectual equal in Grindelwald. Following his sister's death, he made ammends. He defeated Grindelwald, refused the post as Minister for Magic, and abandoned his quest for the Deathly Hallows. Finally, he sacrificed so much in hunting down and searching for Voldemort's horcruxes. His use of Harry was perhaps a little selfish - yet he knew that Harry was the best hope they had, and that Harry couldn't be killed by Voldemort because of his role as a horcrux and the protection in his blood. He had his faults, but he truly loved Harry.

The Prince's Tale proved Snape to be a good man. He risked his life as a double-agent and showed incredible bravery in killing Dumbledore, and then doing all he could to aid the trio in destroying Voldemort. While, his later actions may have redeemed him, his early actions as a Death Eater can't be forgotten - and are, in my opinion, more reprehensible than Dumbledore's selfishness ans ambition as a teenager.

Both were great men - but Dumbledore has got to go down as the finest wizard of all-time.

I voted Dumbledore but I'm still sitting on the fence. Dumbledore is my favourite character of the two. After everything he's been through, he still turned out to be the amazing person he was. He helped Harry finish Voldomort. He deserves a great deal of respect and love.

Snape ... I was shocked to find out that he was good and that he had been serving Dumbledore whole-heartedly all along. That made me respect him more that words can say.

So overall, I don't know who I respect more. They are both wonderful men.

Snape, because what he did was so out of character for him. He was a Death Eater, the most evil out of evil, yet he came back to the light side for his love of Lily.

I think that both men deserve respect for different things.

Snape - turning against the death eaters and LV in the end, and helping Harry with the memory. He was brave and in the end was GOOD!

Dumbledore - for in the end saving many more lives, and doing "what was right". Even though there was a lot we did not know, and that greed was in his live with the Deathy Hallows, I still respect him.

The fact that they are remembered in future by their names (thanks to Harry) is really a sign of how they were respected in the end.

- Potters Phoenix -

I definately think Snape. After everything he'd been through, he always remained loyal to Dumbledore. They both made mistakes as a kid, but I Snape did those things because he wanted to be accepted, but Dumbledore wanted power. Snape had to have a lot of courage to turn against the death eaters and Voldemort. Not to call Dumbledore a coward, but I think that Snape is truly the better man.

I think it is so true how both Snape and Dumbledore have had very dodgy pasts, yet Dumbledore pulled through to be the kind hearted person he became. Snape remained cynical, a facade he could barely break when he was in the presence of even Dumbledore, who he trusted above all. He had been a good child, but became unable to break old habits when venturing into adulthood. I actually cant recall a single time Snape had retained any evidence of that child-like spirit throughout the series up until the final few chapters of the final book. It's a bit sad really, considering he had so much potential.

Having said that, I would still probably give up my seat for him first. It took incredible courage and bravery to do what he did and he should be admired for it.

-thesolitaryone-

ok, so they both had a dodgy past, but Dumbledore's lasted a few months whilst Grindelwald was there; Snape's lasted until he was 21, when Lily became endangered.

much as i love snape, coz i really do, i respect dumbledore more, because he pulled himself out of his dodgy patch, and did have the best intentions at heart.

I chose Snape because even though he may have had rough moments involving the dark lord, I felt like he had less lies to tell than Dumbledore. It seemed like Dumbledore was hiding his past from most people and he cared more about school and being successful than his own family.
Snape, however, cared more about Lily than being a star.
Seemed to gain my trust way more than Dumbledore did.

I think it's unfair to really say who deserves more respect, they both deserve respect of the highest kind for what they've done to help the wizarding world and ridding the world of Tom Riddle.
Dumbledore, while his past somewhat troubling, does not change the fact that he always trusted people and always trusted that love would prevail. On a further note, hiding his past? It's like someone saying that you haven't told them the truth when they haven't asked you about it. Sure, there were things he'd rather keep to himself, but heaven forbid that! While he was selfish in some respects, he saw that Harry was pure and took him under his wing, which did more for Harry than probably anyone in the book other than his trusty Ron and Herminone.
He also knew that power was his weakness and chose to stay in education to help young minds rather be given power in the Ministry. You can't let finding out the past about a person skew the view of the person you know.
Which brings me to Snape. He had everyone but Dumbledore fooled til the end. His love for Lily at a young age and her friendship changed him into a completely different person than what he would have become if he had gone into Slytherin as a lonely, sad child. You have to remember, however, his only motivation really to help Dumbledore and the right side was because of Lily. He said he would do "anything" to save Lily. Dumbledore's complete trust in him helped him be the hero of the story, and the love he had for Lily helped him overcome his dark past with the Slytherins and with the Death Eaters.

Well, when we were given a chance to see Dumbledore again in "King's Cross", I smiled at the thought of the whimsical old Dumbledore again, and I was glad.

I voted for Dumbledore and was shocked that Snape was winning the race.
for one, Dumbledore was the one with the ingenious plan that led to LV's downfall. I think that he has proven himself time and time again.
The fact that Snape loved Lily and does everything to protect Harry doesn't mean he is better than DD. For one, I think that if Voldy would have decide to go after Neville, Snape would not have been brave in any way shape or form. I appreciate everything he has done, but he is still a prat and a greasy git. for one, when hermione's teeth grew when she was hit by draco's spell in the second book, he just sneered and wasn't nice to her. Said he didn't see a difference. He always called her a know-it-all and he was generally not the greatest of people.
But I do suppose he wasn't the one that made a plan to have snape killed and harry 'killed' to destroy L.V. I think that DD had to, though. It was the only way.
And snape was a DEATH EATER. i know he turned spy but only for lily. only for lily. like i said if it had been neville, he would have continued.
anyway, yeah....

Snape may not have been an especially personable person, but he did go daily to the lion's den for the good of the wizarding world. Some would argue that Dumbledore is superior because he developed the plan whcih destroyed Voldie. however, without the information Snape provided DD, this plan may never have been developed. And Snape did sacrafice his reputation so as to save Dumbledore from the agony of defeat and or Greyback. Snape may have been a Slytherin, but the fact remains that he was a noble character and a tragic hero. Dumbledore was a greedy and arrogant toe rag that isn't fit to undo Snape's boots. By playing with the horcrux, Dumbledore created the problem he found himself in. Snape, however, was forced to foot the bill. ANd he rose to the occasion magnificently. Se gap lai nhe.

Again, I find your understanding of Dumbledore to be faulty. He put on the ring to see his DEAD sister.. nothing greedy about that.. he devoted his life to fighting the Dark Arts and saving Harry and the Wizarding World, adn we are going to flay him alive for showing and acting on one of his most inner desires? How fair is that? Snape chose to be a Death Eater and vowed to do anything to right his wrongs... while he was extremely brave, it makes him no better than Dumbledore.. without Dumbledore he would be nothing.. there would be no plan... Lily would be dead and Snape would wallow in self pity.. with Dumbledore he could act on his grief.. and ease his mind.

It was a really touvh decision, but i finally decided on Snape.

He just was so innocent to die after all. Ok, i wasn't in tears over him dieing, but it did come as a shock, and it was touching that his last words to Harry was "Look ... at ... me ..." just so he could remember Lily via Harry's eyes (At least that's why i thought he asked).

But the whole chapter "The Princes Tale" interigued me. Snape had been through so much, i actualy respected a lot about him and undrestood a lot too. He didn't really deserve to die.

I don't think that is especially fair, considering that Dumbledore did make amends for his past sins throughout his life. Sure he spent about 20 years being an arrogant idiot, but his actions later on in life surely repent that. Though I do not condone his actions concerning his past, or many of his actions concerning Harry, he is still one of the most respectable men in the series. Many of his undesirable actions later on in life concerning Harry and Hogwarts has been a direct result of the fact that he cares too much. Maybe we shouldn't be too quick to judge; hell, we already learned that with Snape...



Quoting Harry for a sec, it is not a question of who deserves more respect, but who earned it.

-thesolitaryone-

well I can't help but greatly respect Dumbledore for his hugely intricate planning!!
However, what a heart-throb Snape turned out to be, knew it! Can't help but think of Severus as the better man.

NM
xxx

This is gonna sound really harsh but i think Snape.


The way he put everything at risk was sooooo admirable. I mean, he was dealing with the most evil, terrible wizard of all time.



i was really surprised at the end-ish bit because of the first chapter. i was sure he was a baddie, even though i didn't want him to be.


I have to say, i thought Dumbledore in all the other books, and i still think he's great but I just thought Snape was better in tis book.


Long live Albus Dumbledore AND Severus Snape!

No question!! Has to Dumbledore.

Snape acted selfishly right to the very end. *gasp* I know there are people who will poo-poo me, but honestly, his actions were only ever driven by his own vengeance. He obsessively loved Lily and was out for blood because Voldemort still took her away from him after pleading for her life. He didn't care about James (which is kinda understandable), and he didn't care about Harry either - an innocent baby remember - he only cared that Lily would have wanted Harry safe (guilt, because of his role in her demise), and when it came down to it, he was quite happy to hunt Harry down when the time was right (once Nagini was being protected) and hand him over to Voldemort to murder.

Snape wasn't aware of the horcruxes and had no clue as to the possiblity of Harry's ultimate survival. If Dumbledore wanted it done, Snape would do it, only because he always thought of Dumbledore as Voldemort's greatest threat; he never seriously considered Potter a threat, which is obvious in his treatment of Harry; his utter contempt for him.

Dumbledore was no saint, and it was almost comforting to learn that he had his faults, but what made Dumbledore a better man than Snape was his innert sense of compassion and his self-realisation that he was falable, no matter how gifted.

He had great empathy for others, and not just those close to him. Snape had no empathy. I doubt he felt a thing for anyone else who lost Lily when she died; all he cared about was how it affected him.

Snape really was not a very nice man. He became brave - yes - but only to quench his own thirst to punish those who hurt the one thing he wanted, indeed craved.

At least Dumbledore knowingly sacrificed himself for all general wizard kind in the end. Snape was only ever motivated by retaliation for the loss of Lily. He wouldn't have allied himself with Dumbledore for any other reason, or for anyone else but himself. As they say "Vengeance is sweet". A perfect motto for Snape.

It's Snape!

Both have been down the road to evil and back but Dumbledore had all opportunities as a member of a supportive family as a child and then he had the opportunity to take responsibility when he should have been old enough, but it was his brother who got it right, not Albus.

Snape, on the other hand, had no happy family but a father who beat his mother and maybe his son; a mother who was to weak to stand up to his father and no friends but Lily. Then he came into Slytherin and got to know the wrong people but felt for the first time as part of something. He lost his only real friend, Lily, because he could not decide to turn on his housemates; obviously, he was afraid to be alone again and he surely would have been, if he turned on Malfoy; you can't change houses and, as Dumbledore said, sorting came to early for Snape. As soon as Lily turned on him, his fate was made, but: He turned his fate, because he loved.

So, Snape made many mistakes, but he found the right way and stayed on that road, while Dumbledore had the choice, chose the wrong way and then turned around.

No... Lily turned on him in their 5th year... Snape didn't join the Good Side until he was 21.. something like 6 years later. It took Snape losing Lily twice, once in school and once in Death, for him to realize the error in his ways.

Dumbledore on the other hand lost his sister and immediately turned around and became the great wizard we know today. How he "had the choice, chose the wrong way and then turned around" I am not sure. I do not know where you got that information from.

Snape, after losing the one he loved, still became a Death Eater and then inadvertently caused Lily's death.. finally with the prospect of her dying, did he truly come over to the good side.

I voted for Dumbledore, but I believe Snape has shown the greatest loyalty and perserverance. I should of voted for Snape but anyway he does show such a turn around and its obviously harder for him since he was never admired really or loved, and when he was cared for he ends up losing that person by his own foolish mistakes and yes it takes two times for him to realize, "I've really screwed this up!!" emotion, and he was just filled with such remorse and sorrow and he'd do anything anything for Dumbledore, in trying to make amends for his actions. He ends up in full as an unexpected hero.

I do believe though Dumbledore is still that awesome old guy with a long beard but his past was so etchy and it showed his actual hunger for things usually only associated with those on the bad side. The thing is he learned from his ways, his friendship with Grindelwald and the death of his sister. Though he did forever play PuppetMaster he still was human and I respect his burdens and complete belief in love. His trust in Snape and so many others put him at such an advantage and disadvantage but people wanted to please him as well. He might of been manipulative but he did it for the greater good, which sometimes doesn't sound good but it usually is for the better.

As much as I love Dumbledore, I can't help but feel an increased respect for Snape. Though he is generally cruel and malicious to most people, I do think that unlike Voldemort, Snape was capable of love, and showed that through his affection for Lily and his protection of Harry. Dumbledore always mentioned Snape putting himself at great personal risk, but I never truly understood why until I read this book.

He could've been killed at anytime. He could've chosen not to honor his agreement with Dumbledore, and could've given Harry up to Voldemort at any time -- but his choice to stay on Dumbledore's side and sacrifice his life to protect Harry and the Order said so much more than the nasty demeanor he portrays. He's a hero because he 's gone to great lengths to rectify the mistakes he's made, much like Dumbledore. Snape came from a family where love barely existed, and the fact that he was still capable of love reflects how much of a dynamic and good person he truly was.

I wasn't sure who to vote for but in the end I chose Snape. I just thought that he had been through so much for Dumbledore and in the end died doing what Dumbledore sent him to do - join Voldemort. he stuck to the plan even though he didn't like what he had to do. He risked his life on many occasions and even killed Dumbledore on Dumbledore's orders. I think he was very loyal. I know, he was horrible to Harry but after finding out about his love for Lily can you really blame him for not liking Harry, Lily's child with another man? You kinda feel sorry for him, not only was he picked on in school, but sometimes by the man who ended up marrying the love of his life. Poor guy.

I know Dumbledore is very noble and is certainly a lot nicer in person than Snape. He is quite selfless I think and he does act for "the greater good" so it was a hard choice.

When Snape said 'let me go to the boy' note that he had glanced at nagini and seen that Voldemort was protecting her. Snape saw that the time was right, according to Dumbledore, to deliver the message to harry- do you remember?

Snape is the most interesting character in the book... regardless of the fact he was selfish at times, he gave a lot and helped save Harry in the end.

Although really we could say that Narcissa Malfoy was the real saviour in the final moments! Haha. "He is dead" *claps*

NM
xxx

I was quite suprised that more people didnt respect Dumbledore most even though I put Snape because he is the bravest hero in the book. I guess I was wrong about people liking Dumbledore more even though I do like Dumbledore Snape deserves so much more than he gets not even a Order of Merlin came his way.

All I know is, Snape isn't dumb enough to spend all his time and effort seeking out a cursed object shrouded in secrecy and traps by the most powerful dark wizard of all time, and then immeadiately place the object around his finger without thinking to remove the curse first.

But he is dumb enough to join the Death Eaters while still a teenager, call the girl he loves a 'mudblood' and continue to serve the Dark Lord even though his heart yearned for Lily.. he then relays the Prophecy to his Dark Master, inadvertently causing the death of the one he loved..

But Dumbledore has one relapse in selfishness for the first time probably in 140 years, since the death of his sister Ariana, by putting the Ring on to see his sister... and we all give him the cold shoulder.

It's not that I don't respect Snape.. and it's not that I don't think others should respect Dumbledore over Snape.. but to make such comments seems, to me, unfounded... especially after all that Dumbledore has done for Harry and the Wizarding World.

There's a difference between dumb and insecure. Snape had no friends or family to turn to, and was sorted into a house full of jerks who he had to live with for the next seven years. There is no known option to transfer houses after you've been sorted (and anyone who does will probably be treated as an outcast for it), and any shred of self-esteem that might have allowed Snape to stand up to his fellow housemates was bullied out of him on a daily basis by someone who had a vendetta of making him feel powerless to defend himself.

As for the Lily incident, Lily was the sole reason that James was singling Snape out in the first place (as opposed to the other Slytherins who he could have picked on.). James was basically picking on Snape to get a rise out of her and to get her attention, and to extort her for dates. By standing up for Snape, Lily was thus validating James's strategy as legitimate. James was hoping that Lily would go out with James because she cared that much about Snape to want to protect him. If she didn't come to Snape's aid and didn't give James attention, he probably would have gotten bored and let it go on his own.

Lily was to Snape was like the Elder Wand was to everyone. Yeah, it was nice to have, but it also made you a target.



Because it's a stupid, stupid way to die for the greatest planner in Wizarding history.

You just said it for yourself.. there is a difference between stupid and insecure. Dumbledore has been insecure of himself regarding his sister Ariana for something like 140 years.. 140 years to dwell on the unknown.. to wonder if it was he that killed her... so once his life long desire was right in front of him, he would naturally forget that the Ring was most likely cursed. He didnt know it was cursed for sure.. the Diary wasn't cursed after all... and would have succumbed to his desire to see Ariana. Sad? yes. Stupid? No.

I had to vote Snape!

Both Severus and Dumbledore had choices to do what was right and what was easy.
They both however strayed to the dark side which is understandable especially as they were both young and foolish.

However when Dumbledore returned to the good side I believe he did it mainly as a way to be rid of the burden of the guilt of his sister. Yes he wanted to defeat Voldemort too but his main motivation was his sister. He did use Severus's love for Lily as a way to help him to over come Voldemort. He asked Severus to kill him in HBP which I think he didn't understand would have a great emotional effect on Severus. Though he was a Death Eater he still had a conscience and the fact that Dumbledore was the only one to trusted him and then to go and kill him it would deffinately pain him to carry out such a heavy duty. Dumbledore was great he had ample power and knowledge and also managed to defeat Grindleward and discover Voldemort's horcruxes but he has always been praised for his achievements. People have always been behind Dumbledore...for example the D.A Harry ran.

As for Severus yes he also joined the good side due to the guilt of Lily's blood on his hands. But his bravery and achievements remaind un-noticed and ignored. He wasn't doing it for the recognition and respect of others, he did it because of love and remorse. It was incredably difficult for Severus to come into contact with James and Lily's child and keep cool. He could have easily though "I hate that Potter kid and want him dead, I'm going to join the Dark Lord again" but he remined true to his word. With only the encouragement of Dumbledore and the taunts and resentment from others he stayed true until the end. He never really experienced proper love and respect but it was all he had for Lily. People pushed him away but he kept fighting Voldemort no matter what.

Dumbledore had th motivation of all his success, recognition and respect to keep him going until the end but Severus only had love for someone who never wanted him back in that way. He proved to be the stronger of the two.

Except that he postponed fighting Grindewald for years and years, even at the cost of innocent life, specifically because he wanted to avoid knowing the truth. So now he's going to act incredibly rash to seek it out? It makes no sense. The main lesson to take from Ariana's death was to avoid being rash, because rashness is what might have killed his sister accidentally. Moreover, there was no source of peer pressure or bullying to compel DD to use the ring ASAP.



The diary wasn't cursed after all? It had the power to wipe Ginny from reality in order to bring LV back to life! That's a pretty powerful curse.

"Well, it worked as a Horcrux is supposed to work — in other words, the fragment of soul concealed inside it was kept safe and had undoubtedly played its part in preventing the death of its owner. But there could be no doubt that Riddle really wanted that diary read, wanted the piece of his soul to inhabit or possess some-body else, so that Slytherin's monster would be unleashed again."

"Well, as you now know, for many years I have made it my business to discover as much as I can about Voldemort's past life. I have traveled widely, visiting those places he once knew. I stumbled across the ring hidden in the ruin of the Gaunt’s house. It seem that once Voldemort had succeeded in sealing a piece of his soul in side it, he did not want to wear it anymore. He hid it, protected by many powerful enchantments, in the shack where his ancestors had once lived (Morfin having been carted off to zkaban, of course), never guessing that I might one day take the trouble to visit the ruin, or that I might be keeping an eye open for traces of magical concealment.

“Why,” said Snape, without preamble, “why did you put on that ring? It carries a curse, surely you realized that. Why even touch it?”

Ehh we are going to disagree.. I see it as an understandable mistake.. you see it as stupidity. So be it.



You know what I meant. The Diary was not cursed as the Ring was cursed or Ginny Weasely would have been dead ages ago. I meant that there was no Curse on the Diary that prevented one from touching it without harm... so as I said before, Dumbledore being struck with awe and desire.. 140 year old desire.. he simply made a mistake...and gave in to what he wanted.

I have to admit that I do respect Albus Dumbledore in the fact that he is an absolute genius but, think about it, Snape must be respected even more so for doing what he did, it can't have been easy for him, Voldemort didn't even suspect he was really alleged with Dumbledore, one little slip and I think Voldemort would have killed him sooner, but no, not one slip-up, he did everything he was asked to, and for that I respect him, although if he hadn't called Lily a mudblood, he would've been Harry's dad...Scary isn't it?

The Diary's purpose was to keep the owner alive long enough unleash the Chamber of Secrets, and to serve as evidence that he was the heir of Slytherin before killing the owner, and it would have worked if Harry hadn't thought of of stabbing it wth a basilisk fang. It was meant to be unleashed on Hogwarts as a weapon, and only on Voldermort's say-so.

OTOH, the ring was kept hidden in secrecy behind magical protections, in a house that LV didn't even realize that DD knew about until it was towards the end. He never intended for anyone to even find the ring, much less to wear it.