That was a image of the existence of the parts that Lord Voldemort's Horcrux had left. In other words, that boy was the pieces of soul of the Horcruxes destroyed at that moment and also the image of the existence Lord Voldemort would be "doomed" to live after he finally became mortal and died.

I think it was reflecting back to OotP when Dumbledore tells Voldemort "killing you wouldn't sastisfy me". I mean, if when Voldemort died, he just went to wherever wizards go when they die, he would never really have to suffer everything he did. Dumbledore was almost exactly as he was when he was alive, but I think it's different in Voldemorts case. I don't know if that makes sense to anyone else but's that what I think.

"...the transformation he has undergone seemed to me to be only explicable if his soul was mutilated beyond the realms of what we might call 'usual evil'..."
-From Half-Blood Prince


Voldemort had destroyed his soul so thoroughly that it was impossible for him to exist in the same manner as wizards whose souls remain intact and untarnished. The crying child in King's Cross was the physical manifestation of not only Voldemort's deformed and inhuman soul, but of the existance that he was doomed to after death.

So that was Voldemort lying there on the floor?! 'Cause he had had also something like Harry, they were both in a kinda dream or something. But it's weird that Voldemort and Harry and Dumbledore were in the same dream then. Or was it just an example for Harry, to see what Voldemort soon would look like? Or was it the horcrux in Harry, that was a baby 'cause Harry was a baby when he got it? Well, I really don't get it Great chapter, but a bit hard to understand

I thought about that creature that it was the horcrux which left Harry when LV wanted to kill him. I don't think that it could be LV in another manifestation, because finally he died. It could be only in this way, if he remained alive after reuniting his horcruxes - which we know were destroyed- as we've seen him before, but I don' t think it's the same.



Yes, for me it's also not clear that it was a dream or not. Maybe yes, because otherwise Harry couldn't have seen Dumbledore, but I think LV not even couldn't be there.

Actually, when Harry comes back to consciousness so does Lord Voldemort. The book clearly states he also went off in a kind of limbo. That is, perhaps, part of the sole reason that odd trio share a dream.

Jon: Since Voldemort was afraid of death, did he choose to be a ghost if so where does he haunt or is this not possible due to his horcruxes?
J.K. Rowling: No, he is not a ghost. He is forced to exist in the stunted form we witnessed in King’s Cross.
-Bloomsbury live Webchat with J.K. Rowling, July 30 2007


The crying child in King's Cross was, in fact, the actual form that Voldemort would exist in after death -- as stated by J.K. Rowling in the above excerpt from Bloomsbury's webchat. Also, just because Harry and Voldemort were in a sort of "limbo" between the living world and the afterlife does not mean that the experience was a dream. I believe that Dumbledore even says something to that effect, although I would have to go back and double-check in order to be absolutely positive.

ah
i get it now.
thanks

It seems to me, and I could be very much mistaken here, that Harry explains to Voldemort what will happen to him if he doesn't, for lack of another word, repent. Remember in the scene just before Harry kills Voldemort that Harry says something like, "I've seen what you become, Tom"? I don't have my book in front of me, but that comes to mind.

Therefore, the thing at King's Cross is what Tom Riddle became when he died.

I think you mean this: "It's your one last chance," said Harry, "it's all you've got left... I've seen what you'll be otherwise... Be a man... try... Try for some remorse...".

Although I can't believe that Harry could have foreseen that creature and still less that it will be LV's remains after he died. I think Harry wanted to express with this only that LV wasn't able to behave as a man during his whole life, he was never able to love anyone, he saw always only the cruelty in everything. Harry wanted to hear something from him which could have been a little humane, to feel remorse, as everyone would have felt if he/ she had done such things like he did. And I still believe that the veil was the horcrux which left Harry.

Yes! Thanks! Hey, what I said was pretty close.

I'm not sure I understand what veil you're talking about. Is that the one the the DoM? If so, what do you mean that the veil was the horcrux? Please elaborate.

Oh, sorry, , I think you misunderstood me. I just wondered what was that creature at King's Cross exactly. Because I'm still not convinced that it was the other manifestation or remains of LV, or whatever it should be called, I still believe that it's the Horcrux which left Harry. What do you think?

Jon: Since Voldemort was afraid of death, did he choose to be a ghost if so where does he haunt or is this not possible due to his horcruxes?
J.K. Rowling: No, he is not a ghost. He is forced to exist in the stunted form we witnessed in King’s Cross.
-Bloomsbury live Webchat with J.K. Rowling, July 30 2007


According to the author herself, the child in King's Cross is the manifestation of the state in which Voldemort will actually exist after his death.

Ok, I've read this before, and thank you to post it again However my main problem about this at all is that I can't imagine how it could be possible, although it's clear you're right, because JK said also this. So, sorry for mentioning this so many times And if you could explain me then what about the horcrux which left Harry, I'd be really grateful!

Alright, if J.K Rowling herselfs says that it is a manifistation, than there can't be any doubt about that So it was just a... example for the reader or Harry. Or something like that. Not the part of Voldemort in Harry or Voldie himself. I like the latter more than the manifistation to be honest. Ahh why is this so difficult to understand, I didn't find the other books this hard

But I do wonder what Voldemort saw when he was unconscious. He can't be the creature under the chair (as stated above, although I remain a bit convinced of this theory...) but awoke the same moment as Harry. Because they were so much attached to each other?

And were Harry and Voldemort both in limbo because... why? And talked Dumbldore really to Harry, how is that possible? Or were they where the dead are, in the afterlife? And Harry just thought it looked like King's Cross. 'Cause Dumbledore knew everything that had happened, he had watched everything 'from above' or something...?

And Harry survived because he was the true master of the Hallows? Or of his mother's sacrafice and Harry's blood in Voldemorts body?

Ohhh I really hope there comes a time when J.K will explain everything in a long and clear anwser... and all questions about these last chapters will be sorted

Really good questions, I too wish that enciclopedia to be published soon

I think they both were in limbo because of the effect of the Avada Kedavra and Expelliarmus on each other. Is that possible?

And yes, I think that Harry survived because of being the true master of the Hallows, it makes sense. What do you think?

Axoria,

Please forgive my rudeness! Having read the J.K. Rowling chat transcript, I was very adamant that this must be the proper explanation -- after all, who would understand the experience at King's Cross better than she? Once again, I apologize... my intention was to be convincing, not disrespectful.


I would have to re-read DH (which I am about to do, having -- yet again -- just finished HBP) in order to offer up my theories about that particular horcrux. Hopefully, I will notice an explanation that I didn't notice the first time around!

JessiMae82, you don't have to apologize, you were absolutely right! Maybe I'm the only one who can't get this strange creature- thing... I also would like to reread it again and again, so I hope we can finally solve this problem!

Technically, both of you are correct. The presence we see in King's Cross is *both* a representation of the Horcrux within Harry Potter, and it is also the representation of Lord Voldemort's stunted existence.

Also, Lord Voldemort and Harry were in a "limbo" because, I believe, Lord Voldemort had maimed so much of his soul he finally began to feel the effects on him. He was simply leaving the "mortal" world one Horcrux at a time. The "limbo"was not a dream, or death, or the afterlife. It is simply the bridge between life and death. Dumbledore, you see, asked Harry where they where. To me, it seems he did not see the place and/or he did not see the same place. Harry saw King's Cross because it was where he left and joined both worlds, mundane and magical.

In King's Cross, through the train, he boarded his preferred life (Hogwarts and magic). Also in King's Cross he went to a life of suffering(The Dursleys). So, King's Cross meant a choice. Harry made a choice, to live or die. As said before, this was not a "dream" or "limbo". It was just a unconscious state. Just my 0.02 cents.

TheShehanigan, thank you for posting that the creature (how should we call it?) can be both Harry as a Horcrux and LV's representation. I hope it could be the right explanation

It's really interesting what you say about the bridge between life and death. The fact that Dumbledore asked Harry where they were exactly seems to prove your statement. Because otherwise Dumbledore could have said a totally different thing, which was for him this bridge. It could be for him maybe Godric's Hollow where his sister died in that duel, or what else could it be?

The Shehanigan,

Thank your for clarifying things! I've gone back and re-read the "King's Cross" chapter, and you're absolutely right:

"I've got to go back, haven't I?"
"That is up to you."
"I've got a choice?"
"Oh yes." Dumbledore smiled at him. "We are in King's Cross, you say? I think that if you decided not to go back, you would be able to... let's say... board a train."
"And where would it take me?"
"On," said Dumbledore simply.

********************

"Tell me one last thing," said Harry. "Is this real? Or has this been happening inside my head?"
Dumbledore beamed at him, and his voice sounded loud and strong in Harry's ears even though the bright mist was descending again, obscuring his figure.
"Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?"


Both of these passages indeed confirm that Harry was in a sort of "limbo", for lack of a better word, between life and death, and that his experience was genuine. Thank you for your post -- it was extremely insightful!

Alright, now we've stated that they were in limbo - how could Dubmledore get there? I dont' suppose he was waiting there for Harry all this time. But they really talk to each other, and even touch, so he must be there. It istn't just his imagination. But how can Dumbledore get there?

I don't think King's Cross represented Limbo or anything else supernatural. The entire King's Cross chapter is a dream that Harry had while he was unconcious from Riddle's AK curse in the forest. Also, the repulsive baby that Harry saw in this dream is the same creature that Wormtail dropped into the cauldron at the cemetery in GOF.

Elisabeth: In the chapter of kings cross, are they behind the veil or in some world between the real world and the veil?
J.K. Rowling: You can make up your own mind on this, but I think that Harry entered a kind of limbo between life and death.
-Bloomsbury live Webchat with J.K. Rowling, July 30 2007


I apologize ahead of time -- I honestly don't mean to be the annoyingly pushy person on this site, and I cringe at myself for posting this, but I can't help but reiterate: King's Cross was not a dream, and was indeed a sort of "limbo." This is why Dumbledore explained to Harry that he had the choice to go on (to the afterlife) or go back (to the world of the living). King's Cross, to Harry, represented a sort of crossroads between life and death -- a limbo.

just want to add,
i think harry chose king's cross, because it also represented to him as a bridge connecting or a the world he has known and the world which he truly belong. before his eleventh birthday, he doesn't know about the wizarding world, as he enter platform 9-3/4, there, truly started the magical world for him wehere he really belong. so when harry was in a limbo he could think of a place resembling king's cross, where he could join the other world and go on or he must return.

Everyone has the choice of "going on" or "going back" every day of their life. Making King's Cross into a supernatural place is simply romanticizing a dream that Harry had after being cursed by Riddle. And speaking of Riddle, let's call him that from now on. Voldemort is bull***, Riddle was his name.

The definition of "limbo", according to the Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary, is "an intermediate or transitional place or state." In my most humble opinion, wavering somewhere between life and death would definitely qualify as a "transitional state", which is why -- as annesches so insightfully pointed out -- Harry saw King's Cross during this transition.

Also, not only did Dumbledore allude to the fact that King's Cross was not a dream, but J.K. Rowling herself stated that, in her opinion, it was not. However, she also stated that you can form your own conclusion, so you have every right and privilege to disagree. However, I agree with the author, and I hardly believe that those of us who do are "simply romanticizing a dream that Harry had."

I was rereading DH the other day and when I got to the part about King's Cross I was wondering what that naked little thing was that DD said they could not help. It was like it was under a permanent Cruciatus Curse!And it didn't seem to hear a word DD and Harry were talking about. I think it might be the symbols of all of Harry's troubles or something.

Soo...what do you think?

<3 Rachel

I think this was Voldemorts 'soul' or whatever. When Harry wakes up he thinks to himself that Voldemort also seemed to be coming out of a type of limbo at the same time as him. So I think this was the part of Voldemorts soul that was left. I think it looked like that because it was such a small fraction of his soul that was left. Thats just my thoughts anyways.

I agree with marrymerupert. However, my brother brought up a good point the other day... since the part of voldemort's soul is out of harry does he lose any of his "unusual" powers, such as,... can he still speak parseltounge??

what do you guys think?????

There is a web chat with JK Rowling online where she answers a whole bunch of questions, and one of them was "Can Harry still speak parseltongue" and she said "No - and he's quite happy about it" or something to that extent. Look for it online - its a lot of stuff answered!

I think it's an excellent idea that the ugly little creature that Harry saw at King's Cross was the part of Tom Riddle's soul that still lived in Voldemort's body, since he WAS coming out of a trance just like Harry, but my initial impression was something else. Here's another possibility:

It was the part of Voldemort's soul that had dwelled in Harry (or, possibly, the combined bits of soul that had been banished from the destroyed Horcruxes). I think it was stuck forever in that kind of limbo, feeling the pain of its destruction (because all Horcruxes kind of 'die' when they're destroyed, screaming and/or bleeding;) because even though Harry's 'death' wasn't painful, its, as a defeated Horcrux, was. It couldn't go 'on' or go back as a ghost, because we know that a ghost is "the imprint of a departed soul" (or something to that extent), from book 6--I think that means you have to have a soul, a complete soul, in order to go 'on' as well as go back to be a ghost. And if it was in fact the combined broken soul from all the destroyed Horcruxes, it still wasn't a repaired, or so-called 'complete' or 'pure' soul (even when it joined, then or later, with the last bit of Voldemort), because it hadn't been joined back together through remorse (so even when the last bit of Voldemort died, it still wouldn't be able to go on, and it wouldn't be able to go on if Voldemort HAD died at the same time as Harry for the same reason).

Also, I'm not sure how Harry could have went back if Voldemort was the creature there, I thought that the reason he COULD was because Voldemort survived, so he was still tied to him somehow. I thought that the reason Voldemort appeared to be coming out of some trance similar to Harry's was that he was finally feeling the destruction of his Horcruxes (or at least one of his Horcruxes) since there was so little of him left.

Just my thoughts, though. It's (meaning the plot of HP) all very complicated and so insistently existential, so it's hard to make sense of any of it.

Just wondering if anyone can explain the crying creature in King's Cross near the end of the book..?
I didn't catch on to that part..

We agreed on that strange thing earlier that it can be both Harry as a Horcrux and LV's representation as well. Although I think everyone can have an own idea about it until the encyclopedia doesn't make it finally clear.

Yeah,I was confused about the little crying thing in the corner for awhile too. Even when I re read the book it didnt make sense. But some people think it IS the good and bad part of Harry or something like that.

I think the crying thing at King's Cross was Tom's soul. Since it was basically Harry's soul and Dumbeldore's soul talking to each other or something like that. But it like represented that his soul was so damaged it was way beyond repair and unless he really felt remorse and guilt for what he had done that's what he would be like when he died.

I think so much of the end of this book was left to your own feelings and ideas. Its all very blurry and i think this is appropriate as, the 'limbo' work is like this, there are no definite explanations or definitions, the boundaries are gone.
However, in my oppinion, the flayed baby represents Voldies soul, the state it is in after being torn apart again and again. So this could represent both the bit of soul that came out of Harry and the state that Lv will have to exist in when he dies. It could really represent any part of his soul. The main point is that is is damaged beyond repair. That is Voldies eternal punishment.
As to whether Harry was dreaming or in death, I think it was a place between the two. A holding place between worlds. Perhaps it inly came into existence for Harry in that moment. Dumbledore could be there because he was dead. Who knows the rules for a soul once it is dead, it could go wherever it like for all we know! Maybe DD has gained a certain omniscience in death, so knew when to be there and how to be there. Its all very philosophical! and I guess we are left with saying that lots of these questions can only be answered by going there ourselves one day.

I also think that King's Cross is a station between life and death coz its so typically symbolic in the books and for harry especially
King's Cross is the station between the muggle world and the wizarding world...so its quite likely for harry to see himself in this place in this very situation where he is like...getting another chance for life....
so King's Cross is a connection which keeps up ties...but probably someone else would see it differently as harry did .... maybe its individually...
and another thing I have to add is that Dumbledore is the truth that is awaiting him in this station....its like when u leave life(not really die) you get to know all the secrets all the unanswered questions and as Dumbledore is for Harry the person who always informed him and kept him like "up to date" he was used as the symbol for truth as King's Cross was used as a symbol for connection..again someone else but Harry would probably see not Dumbeldore but there...well mother or someone...

I wondered about that, and I agree that it is some part of Riddle's soul. I can't remember exactly but at the end of DH while Harry is talking to Riddle he says something like, "I've seen what you'll be otherwise" when he's trying to persuade Riddle to show some remorse for his actions, I wondered whether that creature was what Harry meant there. May be completely wrong of course

You are right, that thing that Harry saw was what remained of Voldemort's soul, and no JKR said that Harry's ability to speak parseltongue has diminished.

Hi Gwenog! Do you mean that you dont think that was really Dumbledore at Kings Cross? Like it would be someones form that you see that you consider truthful? Or that it was Dumbledore and he was sort of cghisen to go see Harry there because Harry considered him truthful? Hmm i've confused myself now! What I mean is, are you saying that the person Harry was speaking to was a manifestation of truth taking Dumbledore's form beacuse of how Harry saw him, or that it was really Dumbledore?

I wasn't surprised we found out Harry was a horcrux
When dumbledore had told harry about part of Voldemort's power being trasferred into Harry i thought maybe thats why he had survived, living off Harry but then finding out about the horcruxes in the HBP it all clicked in place.
I really enjoyed reading King's Cross and learning all about it and it was sort of the 'clear up' chapter where you found out all the information you needed.
I wonder when Voldemort finally realised that Harry was a Horcrux though?
Extremely Glad Harry Won Too (:

I agree with you. I wonder though...



I'm still sort of confused...

To LauraLupin: yepp I mean that Dumbledore is just a symbol there because he is for harry someone who explained him everything...like a mentor...for someone else it wouldn't probably be Dumbledore but I dont know..McGonagall or someone
its just a matter of fact that if anybody else but Dumbledore had spoken to harry then he wouldnt believe it neccessarily you know...
hope I could explain it

Dumbledor himself told Harry King's Cross was his creation, so maybe Dumbledor was párt of it, or as you had said, this was a kind of Limbo, and maybe Dumbledor choosed to wait for Harry so he could explain him everything in the end, why else this Dumbledor would be able to tell the real story of Ariana's dead. He Knwe that Harry most die to finish the seventh Horocrux, so maybe he thought that he should wait for him. That Harry deserved to know why all that had been so painful and hard.

Abouth the crying thing, I do think that as Voldemort faithed just as Harry maybe that thing was Voldemort soul, maybe he experienced something quite as Harry but for him was worst that hell itself, and the fact that he choosed to chek if Harry was in fact dead, shows that even if he was in souch pain he could have seen something of Harry near him.

I don't know really but beyond any help souns too much like if Dumbledor was talking abouth Voldemor's sould which was broken so baddly and beyond any remose.
But for the cruciatus curse, I don't know, maybe is just that Harry lost every posible fear of dead, or that seeing what LV soul was, LV could not hurt him.

Or perhaps, is the wand that won't hurt his true master, as we saw when LV tried to Kill Harry.

I also think that LV couldnt hurt Harry because it was him who was the real master of the wand BUT why on earth could he cast the Avada Kedavra curse the first time? the wand already had recognized him then didnt it?
or did it just recognize the piece of LVS sould in him and therefore that worked...

Hey, during Harry's vision/dream/half death thingie, what was the childlike thing that was enduring all of that pain? And since it was pained, why weren't Dumbledore and Harry felling it too?
...Unless it was the bit of Voldie's soul that had dwelt in Harry?
Please reply so I have an idea as to what it was!
-Just Another Muggle-

maybe that's it, as you said Gwenog, the first time he cast Avada Kedavra against harry he was attaking a part of himself not just Harry and that was the part he killed in the end, he was hurting his own soul not Harry's, so that's maybe why the wand did work the first time, the second time, there was nothing else to hurt or kill but Harry so the wand choosed not to work.

the kings cross was amazing i am realy confused weith the bit about dd showing up i think it was like heaven dd was a very powerful man maybe he was just waiting for the right moment to comunicate with harry instead of telling him what to do he let harry figure out everything himself and thats why i think he turned up at kings cross.

hey this may seem really obvious but wat was the baby thing crying in kingscross with dd and harry