Im confused. What exactly was the point of Dumbledore nudging them towards finding the Hallows? Was it just so that they knew Voldemort was after the Elder Wand? I dunno, it doesnt seem like they served much of a purpose to the trio at all. It seems especially odd she named the book after them, they didnt serve THAT much of a purpose from what I understood.

Was there a reason Dumbledore tried to get them to find the Hallows?

I was asking myself the same question. I mean Dumbldeore didn't want Harry to go in search of the Hallows, so why did he give Hermione that book? I was really confused about that.

It seems like he pushed them towards the Hallows so at least to give them an idea of what they might be up against in the Elder wand? That way Harry was able to figure out that the wand was actually supposed to be his? It also helped to explain Harry's lineage through the Peverell's

isnrt it obvious?

so harry could find out that he was the rightful descendant of the invisability cloak and know exactly why dumbledore gave it to him

he also was the rightful owner of the elder wand towards the end of the book and gave it up after he repaired his own phoenix wand with it because he said its caused nothing but trouble for the owner and would die naturally and the elder wands power would too

he did it because he knew harry wouldnt want the powerful wand and the legend would end and no more battles over the wand would happen

it helped him in the final battle too because he wouldnt have known or worked out that the wand was rightfully is and wouldnt kill harry upon volemorts command but back fire and kill him!

thats how i interppretated it

I think there were two reasons:

Dumbledore knew that he, personally, wasn't strong enough to possess all three Peverell relics, but he might have thought that Harry could. He wanted to finally, finally give Harry the choice to determine his own destiny. He wanted Harry to decide "Horcruxes or hallows?" Which will be more important?

Dumbledore wanted Harry to finally be in control of his destiny, and knew that Harry would make the right choice - even if he, Dumbledore, wasn't certain what that choice would be.

And Harry did. If Harry hadn't known about the Elder Wand, he might not have been prepared for the final battle. (Perhaps that alone was it. Dumbledore knew that Voldemort would figure out that it had been in his possession at his death and that Voldemort would have broken into his tomb for it. Harry needed to know...)

I actually think there was more to this than the three artefacts.

Right from the start, Dumbledore had an interest in Harry. They talked about things, as much as Dumbledore wanted to that is, until the end of GoF. Then DD stopped. He avoided Harry because of the link between him and LV.

Then in HBP, Dumbledore started to involve Harry a bit more, with the search for the horcruxes, but still he kept thing from him. He knew that Harry was angry about this, go back to his outburst at the end of OotP. So he knew that he would have to put in place the means to explain everything to Harry.

Yes he needed to for him to know about the Hallows and the link to Harry, but he also needed him to know why they became important to him. Dumbledore wanted Harry to know his story too.

I was wondering about that too. I mean the Hallows didn't really play a big role in the final battle. Plus, it was kind of anticlimatic since Harry already had a majority of the Hallows from the time he learned of them, so he didn't really have to work for them. And although the Elder wand played a big part, it could have just as easily been a powerful wand all its own and it was unnecessary for it to be part of a set.

But I guess it makes sense if Dumbledore included them so that Harry would be able to make his own choice about his destiny.

I just thought that Harry would do something with them after he obtained the Wand from Voldemort, which united all the Hallows.

Mod Edit:

Just to let you guys know, I tweeked the title slightly. Along with the discussion that is going on I think it would worthy to discuss if the Deathly Hallows served any useful part in the plot of the book.

Getting Dumbledore's history was facinating but given all the other things that were left unanswered, was creating a whole new plot line (The Deathly Hallows) in the last book a wise choice.

You can probably tell by my post I thought that this whole plot line was not needed and was just a distraction to the rest of the book. I thought JKR had enough on her plate to wrap up in the final book that we did not need any new characters or sub-plots. Instead we get a whole major plot line equal to the Horcrux search and a long list of new characters and very minor characters now playing a bigger role.

I do agree with you gaburdette, JKR used this as a plot device. She needed Dumbledore to tell Harry his story, she needed Harry to learn about the Peverell connection, but more than anything, she needed for HArry to know about the wand, which in my view was the biggest plot device at all. I am sure that she could have had a different wand. Or maybe she could have just made the wand the Deathly Hallow.

I think she just really wanted Dumbledores story to not be a boring one, and that he too had had a journey not unlike Harry's and not unlike Voldemorts.

Well I agree that it was a plot device to reveal DD's story which I was so pleased about. But also I think it was necessary because it enabled Harry to destroy Voldemort without using AK. Also it kind of rendered Voldemort, this world renowned indestructible evil, weak. He was ignorant of the DH until this book, while DD was not. How ironic that the RS was in his possession all those years and he never even knew it.

I'm with Greg. I didn't really like the whole "hallows" thing. I mean, why even tempt Harry with them, if it could have diverted him from his journey to destroy the horcruxes?

Ugh... I just can't stop but going off on tangents... I'm so angry that the series is over, that I can't seem to stop criticizing this book, which, I must admit, I really, and truly, loved.

But, I'll try to stay focused here.

The hallows, as a trio, did not seem a necessity. Yes, it's nice that Harry knows a bit more about his ancestry. Yes, it's nice that he gets where the cloak came from, and why Dumbledore had it... but, why? Why did he need that distraction on his journey? The only necessary hallow he needed know about was the elder wand, which could have been revealed to him in some other way than through the labyrinth of a journey he undertook to understand it.

I don't know... I, personally, kind of hate the idea of the deathly hallows. They tainted Dumbledore, empowered Grindelwald, and distracted both Ron and Harry.

The Hallows was necessary to Dumbledore's plot, but not necesarily to the outcome of the book. Also its totaly set up for one of Hary's kids to go find the ring in the forbidden forest and go on his quest for the Deathly Hallows, what about that? I did not like that Harry was just going to let that ring sit in the forest like that. You know if she wanted to someone could totally find it.

I now beleive that it was necessary to the plot, although whilst reading I was struggling to see much purpose in it.

The cloak, obviously because of the help it has given Harry over the series,
The wand, because it was rightfully Harry's gave JKR a way of killing Riddle without tainting Harry's sole, and thirdly,
The stone, without which I beleive Harry would not have gained the confidence to march to his death.

I may have misunderstood during the first read through of the book but it did confuse me that DD sent Harry on the quest to discover the Hallows, yet I'm positive I remember during the King's Cross chapter that DD mentioned not wanting Harry to pursue the Hallows?

I think Dumbledore wanted Harry to know about the Hallows so that Harry can survive in the end. Harry was already the possessor of all three when he went to meet Voldy and "evaded" death when Voldy was supposed to have killed him. Dumbledore did love Harry.He knew that Harry would eventually have to die and that harry was all just a part of his huge plan to save the wizard world. The Hallows would be able to save Harry as long as Harry didn't chase after them like DD had planned to do.

ok, here´s what i gather of the deathly hallows huge role in the book.
I believe harry survived the killing curse in the forest, because at the moment, he was the rightful owner of all three hallows...
He had the cloak of course, he had just dropped the stone, and the wand was his since he took draco´s wand...
i don´t know... makes sense to me... and jk always likes to leave us some things to figure out for ourselves....

I believe it was a safeguard for Dumbledore just in case he was wrong about Harry's being a Horcrux and Harry's blood in Voldemort binding Harry to him akin to a Horcrux.

Dumbledore was guessing when he made those accusations of Harry being a Horcrux and his blood binding him to Voldemort. Educated guesses, that were after all right, but it shows that Harry was not just a pawn to Dumbledore, but he actually cared for him, thus leading him to the Deathly Hallows.

Dumbledore knew of Harry's selfless nature, and knew that if Harry was the master of all three Hallows, Harry would truly master Death because he embraced Death. Dumbledore knew this and gave Harry one extra line of defense in fighting the Dark Lord.

In my opinion it was essential to the plot because it showed Dumbledore's past, Harry's struggle to beat Voldemort, and the things Dumbledore was willing to divulge to spare Harry's life.

Here's my take on the Hallows. It seems that, with the information we gained in the last few chapter, Dumbledore appears more and more as the puppet master pulling everyone's strings. He knew exactly how much to tell certain people. He knew how people would act and react. Look to his one line to Snape for some evidence(I don't have the book in front of me, so forgive my misquote). It was something to the effect of "Harry must not know til the last minute. If Voldemort should ever become protective of his snake and stop sending it out to do his bidding, then you can tell Harry."

Wow. Let that sink in for a minute. Dumbledore knew that Nagini would be the last Horcrux Harry destroyed (before himself). He KNEW Voldemort would realize what was happening to the Horcruxes and become protective of the snake. He KNEW that at this point, Harry would be beginning to accept that he must die, and only then would he be prepared to see the full plan through Snape's memories. Amazing. Dumbledore seems more omniscient than ever in this book.

Anyway, my take on the Hallows was this: the wand was indeed the important piece. It enabled Harry to beat Voldemort since the wand would not obey him. Admittedly, Dumbledore hadn't planned for Harry to be the wand's master (which worked out very well, it guaranteed Harry's victory). I'm sure he had hoped it would happen (maybe he thought Harry would kill Snape for revenge, I don't know).

The other Hallows, and the quest for them, I believe, was to slow Harry down. Had Harry destroyed the Horcruxes too quickly, he may not have been prepared to die at the end. Dumbledore even tells Harry that he was "Counting on Ms. Granger to slow you down." That is why he gave her the book, to both inform Harry about the Hallows and slow down his hunt for the Horcruxes, ensuring that by the time they were destroyed he was ready to face Voldemort and die like Dumbledore knew he must. Harry dying without trying to fight was what "made all the difference", according to Dumbledore.

He may not have been perfect, but you can't deny Dumbledore's ability to predict EVERYTHING.

These questions quite intrigue me, and I would like to discuss them with you:

1/ In "The Prince's Tale" chapter, when Dumbledore said that Harry was the 7th Horcrux and that he would die to save the world... did Dumbledore really mean that he protected Harry all these times just to let him die in the end??? I am not sure myself, even after reading the book, because if that's so, Dumbledore is quite apathetic.... unsure.gif

2/ On the other hand: By giving hints to the Trio about the Deathly Hallows, did Dumbledore mean to SAVE Harry from dying? unsure.gif In the book, Harry believed that Dumbledore DIDN'T want him to have the Elder Wand. How did he figure that out? And was it really Dumbledore's intention? If Dumbledore REALLY DIDN'T want Harry to have the Wand, then what's the purpose of telling him about the Hallows ??

I had posted my reply to this, since your thread was closed as I was typing it, here. I will post it here as well, so you can see it.


Yes and Yes.



To understand this logic, you must understand the idealogy of "for the greater good". Imagine having the power to save many many lives by giving up one life. It's similar to this dillemma:

Imagine Dumbledore is standing on a cliff.. on one side is Harry, dangling over the edge... and on the other side is the rest of the Wizarding Community. What would you do? Dumbledore had a choice and he knew that Harry would have to die to save the rest of the people from Voldemort. However, something happened that Dumbledore was grateful for.. Voldemort used Harry's blood.. and this leads us into your next part of your post.




With the Blood Situation now know to Dumbledore, Dumbledore is afraid that he may be wrong. He wants Harry to live, but he also wants Voldemort to die. So he sets it up that Harry can have the Hallows so he can master Death and live. Dumbledore didnt want Harry to die.

After reading through this thread, I think Dumbledore knew that even if Voldemort killed Harry, Harry would come back to life because as long as Voldemort had some of Lily's protection in his blood Harry couldnt be hurt by Voldemort. Ah, my head hurts, its all so confusing to me

The wand didn't really backfire though. Here's how I interpreted it:

@AD: Wow I didn't know that you posted a reply on the other thread. Thanks for answering me!

There was a part in question #2 that I didn't get any answer, though: what made Harry think that Dumbledore DIDN'T want him to possess the Elder Wand ??

Considering the alternative title of the book was Harry Potter and the Elder Wand, and considering the fact that Albus Dumbledore needed to explain Harry's lineage and his own story, we can conclude that the main focus was the item known was the Elder Wand but the Resurrection Stone and the Invisibility Cloak also played a important role to merit the book being titled "Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows".

Remember, this book is mainly about discovering the Wand's story (which is the plot device), but it is the story of the other 2 items that explain all of Dumbledore's and Harry's secret backstory which are, in the end, the plot narrators.

EDIT: Tenken, Harry KNEW Dumbledore didn't want him to possess the wand because Dumbledore himself planned the way to destroy it's power and told Harry. He wanted the Wand's power to die with him, but Draco changed everything.

Why? Look here:

This is one of the most debatable points in the book, (the Elder Wand posession) but I have what I believe is what JKR wanted us to know:

The wand chooses a wizard, and as we all know the Elder Wand chose Albus Dumbledore as the new Master. He, scheming with Snape, would destroy the wand's power because he'd not be beaten by anyone and would die as the rightful owner. However, when Draco disarms Dumbledore the Wand's Allegiance changes.

Now, one might say "so if someone Disarmed Harry then he'd be the new Master of the Elder Wand.". That is not true, because it's not as simple as disarming or killing the owner. The process is that in which the TRUE Owner of the Elder Wand admits simply he has lost a duel, on which case the victor becomes the new Owner.

Because Draco disarmed Dumbledore, and Dumbledore could not fight back and lost the duel, he became the owner of the Elder Wand. On the Malfoy Manor, and because Harry disarmed and forced Malfoy to acknowledge a defeat, the ownership of the Elder Wand passed to Harry. The Ownership of the Elder Wand is not in the Wand, it is on the persona. It is like a "curse" which changes from person to person, regardless of the wand he wields.

We can finally conclude, then, that if Harry ever loses a duel and admits defeat, the wand will change ownership. Because it is hidden, however, no one will be able to reclaim it.

Simply, what makes Harry the Owner of the Elder Wand is the fact that Draco bested Dumbledore, but Harry bested Draco in a duel. End of dilemma for me. wink.gif

It doesn't seem like wand owner's admission has anything to do with it...I don't recall Draco admitting Harry had defeated him. It has to do with the *wand* deciding that its previous owner has been defeated. That's why Ollivander says Draco's wand may work better for Harry than the one Ron picked up for him, because Draco's wand may realize Harry has defeated its owner and change allegiance to Harry ("the wand chooses the wizard"). If you were in dueling practice and a friend disarmed you, your wand would not feel you were "defeated." But if an enemy disarmed you, it might decide you were done for and switch over. Apparently, the Elder Wand does this more absolutely and predictably than other wands. So that is why Harry says to Voldy that the question is, does the Elder Wand know its previous owner was defeated? (i.e. Does it recognize Harry's disarming of Draco as a defeat?) It's all about what the wand "thinks".

But on the larger topic of the Hallows, I did find them a distraction. It seemed they were mostly there to make DD's backstory more interesting...and it was interesting, but DD and Grindewald are hardly point of this series! Just like Harry's true quest was meant to be the Horcruxes, I think JK's should have been to do a *lot* more with all those tantalizing hints she's dropped over the years about what exactly happened in the period leading up to and including Harry's parents' death that shaped his future. In the end, what was revealed seemed a little repetitive of what we already knew--Voldy bound himself to Harry even more than we first thought...Lily's protection comes to the rescue, again. OK, but...

Also, has it occurred to anyone else that Harry must live an *extremely* safe and boring life from 17 on if he wants to make good on his plan for the Elder Wand ownership to die with him? He doesn't just have to die a natural death, he has to die "undefeated," which means he can's even be disarmed by an unfriendly. In fact, all he did was grab Draco's wand away from him, so he can't even allow *that* to happen. So much for his ambition of becoming an Auror...I guess he'll be letting somebody else round up all those lingering Death Eaters. He'll need to get himself a nice safe desk job somewhere and make sure he's in by curfew. Good thing Ginny's quick with a spell--if anyone ever gives him or the kids trouble, she can defend them

Thanks for your explanation. Yea, I understood the point made in the last chapter about Dumbledore-Harry-Draco as possessors or the ED.



However, if Dumbledore DID NOT want Harry to possess the ED for himself, which means the 3 Hallows cannot be united and grand Eternal wish, so after all, DD's intention was to sacrifice Harry for Voldemort It's still shocking to me when I realized it

Umm no. It was because Harry did not want to possess the Hallows for himself that truly made him the Master of Death. Harry did not want to live forever, or bring anyone back, he used the Hallows (particularly the Ring) as a last ditch effort to survive Voldemort. Dumbledore meant for Harry to be the possessor of the Stone of Ressurrection to act as a safe gaurd in case he was wrong about the effects of Harry's blood being in Voldemort... hence "I open at the close" Yes, Dumbledore meant for Harry to die.. it was essential to the salvation of all of the Wizarding Community, and perhaps the world... but he tried his hardest to kepp Harry alive with the Hallows, as well as the mistake of Lord Voldemort and the unique blood effect.

I totally agree the Hallows were essential. I think Dumbledore hoped that Voldemort using Harry's Blood would allow Voldy to be killed -- but this was and educated guess. The uniting of the three hallows also gave Harry protection to evade death and give him the choice to go back at King's Cross.

I'm still intrigued by it, perhaps there was a contradiction in your post, I think:

"Dumbledore meant for Harry to be the possessor of the Stone of Ressurrection to act as a safe gaurd in case he was wrong about the effects of Harry's blood being in Voldemort... hence "I open at the close"

Then the following sentence contradicted the above:

"Yes, Dumbledore meant for Harry to die.."

Did DD give Harry the Stone so that Harry can be "resurrected" to fight Voldemort once more? And then, at the end, DD wants BOTH to die !? >_< So what's his purpose of telling Harry about the Hallows?

I'm terribly confused. How do my sentences contradict? Dumbledore meant for Harry to die, that is why he gave him the Hallows so he could "master" death.

The whole purpose of telling Harry about the Hallows was to keep Harry alive and allow him to destroy himself while coming back to kill Voldemort in the end. He knew of the Blood issue with Voldemort that would allow Harry to survive, but wanted to give Harry an extra line of defense against Death.. the Hallows.

its simple.. dumbledore knew harry would master the hallows... and death
thats what dumbledore "knew about harry" just like hew knew ron would want to come back

he used them all the right way:
cloak - for obvious reasons
stone - to summon his loved ones, who also died for the cause, to help him go through w/ it
wand - to once and for all kill voldomort

i like how the final duel was won
"defense wins the game!"

I think to ascribe omniscience to DD is reaching a bit far. as he said himself, he makes good guesses. i think everything he appeared to know were simply well educated guesses. the way he kept up the appearance of being omniscient was simply by never revealing his sources of information.

as for the hallows, well we know that DD himself was searching for the hallows and therefor had knowledge about them. we know that DD believed harry was a horcrux. we know that DD knew that to destroy a horcrux it must be destroyed beyond magical repair. therefor DD KNEW harry must die. as for what really happened (i.e. kings cross and continuing to live) i believe no one ever expected that. so how do you kill harry and still keep him alive? by giving him the ability to MASTER DEATH. from DD point of view when he was writing his will (say, the day before he died) he was in a position to give ALL of the hallows to harry. he had possession of the elder wand AND the resurrection stone and harry had the cloak. so in his will he gave Harry and Hermione the information needed to retrieve them.

on a side note i don't believe being the master of death would give you the ability to kill voldermort without destroying his horcruxes also. the horcruxes would tie his soul to earth no matter what. even if death can take his soul he can't take his WHOLE soul.

It seems that JKR is naming her last three books about the least importing thing in the book. The 5th book could've been Harry Potter and the Return of the Dark Lord. The 6th Harry Potter and the Rise of Voldemort, The seventh would be Harry Potter and the final horcux(s). The Order of the Phoenix, the Half-blood prince, and the Deathly Hallows were not the plot points.

Alot of the book was about the deathly hallows the book was about dumbeldores life which for most of it he looked for the hallows he searched for them and tried hard to find them the book was about harry who became entinced by the hallows but was able to fight the temptation to find them it was about voldemort looking for the hallows the book was built around the mystery of the hallows and who was going to end up with them good or evil and we diddn't find out he didd'nt need the hallows intill the end of the book but the hallows were a very important part of the book they were there to test harry's will to see whether he was going to stick to his quest or be stired away from it

Now I understand the reason he survived...this could be it! The fact that he didn`t die was so strange...I mean AVADA KADAVRA duhhh!!!! the master of the deadly hallows is the one who understands death and knows he will have to face it and that was exactly what Harry did! He faced death... I think the fact that he knew he had to die made the deadly hallows work for him and kept him alive maby Dumbledore knew this was going to happen at the very and so he made sure that they would find the DH at the right time. He explains why not earlier: `cause he thought that Harry would thake advantage of the wand or the stone like he once did




Now I understand the reason he survived...this could be it! The fact that he didn`t die was so strange...I mean AVADA KADAVRA duhhh!!!! the master of the deadly hallows is the one who understands death and knows he will have to face it and that was exactly what Harry did! He faced death... I think the fact that he knew he had to die made the deadly hallows work for him and kept him alive maby Dumbledore knew this was going to happen at the very end so he made sure that they would find the DH at the right time. He explains why not earlier: `cause he thought that Harry would thake advantage of the wand or the stone like he once did

I always interpreted the fact that Harry didn't Die in the Forest, was simply because of the Bloodbond/Horcrux thing. That double bond between Voldy and Harry is exactly what Trelawny's Prediction is all about, right?
'..and either must die at the hand of the other for neither can live while the other survives'.

Voldy HAD to kill Harry in order to destroy the Horcrux inside Harry, but Harry COULDN'T die because of the Bloodbond that Voldy took into himself. The magick protection Lily put into Harry also lingers inside Voldy. That looks like why Harry also choose for the Expeliarmus to finish off Voldy...Besides the fact I cannot believe Harry would Ever use the killing curse at all, I also think it probably would have had a similar effect on Voldy as it did on Harry in the Forest, being, that the Bloodbond would somehow counter it. Harry re-enacted the fight at the graveyard, using the disarming-spell instead (probably INDEED making it his 'signature' btw) where the Wands also played the most crucial roles. This time only it wasn't the twincores, but the allegiances that mattered.

As far as I've seen it, the whole plot of Albus had ever been to provide Harry with all the knowledge to survive untill the final showdown, and grasping understanding of what is what in the ancient magick that Voldy so easily dismisses. Harry's understanding grows rapidly nearing the end...........the fact that Albus didn't want him to have the Elder Wand, since that would surily mean he'd be facing Voldy on wrong terms then, that being that The Elder Wand doesn't make a wizard unbeatable or stronger, it only advances skills and strengths already there, I'd think. Remember Albus defeating Grindewald? Personally I think the Elder Wand never accepted Grindlewald as owner, since he stole it from Gregorovitch...hence Albus being able to defeat the wizard carrying the Elder Wand, which seems to be impossible otherwise. The Elder Wand indeed makes Voldy think he cannot be defeated by anyone anymore. But the alliance-factor is something way beyond Voldy to grasp or even understand, since it's one of those ancient magicks he never ever gave a deeper thought. If Albus' plan had succeeded Severus would have had the Elder Wand without an allegiance-switch, and Voldy with nothing (I doubt he'd know exactly what Albus' wand looked like). Therefor the last sentences spoken between Harry and Voldy were so ultimately important. The Wand Needed to choose, Needed to know...........and we all know the final result.

The Order of the Phoenix was the title of Book 5 because it is the core of the rebellion against Voldemort and that is the main plot of the book. The Half-Blood Prince was the title of Book 6 because Snape was the turning point of all of the plots in the book.

The Deathly Hallows is basically the road not taken. I think using the Deathly Hallows as the title was meant to signify that the book is really about overcoming the pain and fear of death which is what was meant by "master of death." If Harry hadn't gone beyond his fear of death who wouldn't have entered the forest and couldn't possibly have defeated Voldemort. The hallows are just symbolic of conquering death and that's why they're the center of the plot.

I believe the Hallows were important to the story for a few reasons:

1) As some people have mentioned, to expose DD's life. It shows that he was not perfect and could be tempted. Kind of as though DD wanted to get it off his chest - to tell the truth of the biggest sin he has ever made.

2) To further expose LV's ignorance in deeper magic. Everybody knows LV iwas a great wizard no doubt about it. People were scared of him however, since they believed he was the most knowledgeable wizard of all time. But he DID NOT know about the Hallows. He simply believed the Elder wand and his horcruxes were the key to immortality, when really, he needed the three Hallows. It also shows his selfishness - he did not care about bringing people back to life as the resurrection stone does. And between using the invisibility cloak and the wand, LV chose the wand - to keep out of death's way he would rather kill others than simply be invisible to it.

3) The Hallows also teach us a moral story about being selfless. The Elder Wand is a symbol of succumbing to the idea of power. The Resurrection Stone is a symbol of pitying the dead, when really we should pity ourselves - as DD so wisely says. And the Invisibility Cloak is a symbol to wisdom.

DD told Harry about the Hallows so that Harry would know that when he would face LV with no horcruxes, the Elder Wand alone would not make him invincible. He also told Harry simply because of the fact that Harry owned one, yet did not realise what it was and how much more powerful it is to the wand. The Hallows also show that you do not have to be evil to master death. There is a choice: Hallows or Horcruxes?

Sorry I still don't get it >_<

DD's purpose was to let Harry DIE, and only when Harry died could Voldemort be truly defeated.

1. He knows about the Hallows but doesn't use them. I knew DD's reason but it didn't convince me: Voldemort was so strong, perhaps the most powerful wizard out there. DD and Harry knew a way that may enable them to defeat Vol, but they chose not to take advantage of it. What made they think they'd be able to defeat Vol without Hallows, then ? I think they should've considered that they'd be more likely to LOSE to Vol if they didn't take the Hallows . . .

2. If DD's supposed to let Harry die all along, then what's his purpose of telling him "I open at the close" ????

I took "I open at the close" to mean that Harry could only use the stone when he was going to his death. with the people he would want to be brought back to life, Harry would have the bravery to face LV without a wand. If DD gave it to him straightaway, Harry would use it instantly and the people he resurrected would not want to come back. Not just then, anyway.

Hey thanks supastar, it makes sense



Can anyone help clarify this point ?? --> If Dumbledore:

1/ meant for Snape to be the true master of the ED after him (pg 721) AND

2/ DD knew that Voldemort was after it all the time, which means

3/ Snape's life would be in danger after he killed DD . . . So

---> why didn't DD tell Snape about the ED so that Snape could defend himself ???????? >_<


.

Dumbledore knew that Severus couldn`t be the true master of the wand after his death `cause Snape would have not defeated Dumbledore. He was going to kill Dumbledore following his orders so the elder wand couldn`t have passed to any other wizards `cause Dumbledore would have died undefeated.
Why do you say that DD knew that Voldemort was after the wand?
And even if Snape had known anything about LV trying to kill him I think he wouldn`t have had a chance. LV+the snake against Snape...unfair

Nice explanation! But look at DH page 721: DD admits that it's his intention to let Snape possess the ED after him



DD knew how ambitious + power-hungry Voldemort was, so if Vol knew about the ED, he'd definitely seek it.



Yea yea, but at least Snape SHOULD have known that Voldemort's after his LIFE so that he'll keep an eye on Voldemort and perhaps, if Snape knew about the ED and he's supposed to be its true master (allegedly it's DD's intention), he would go to retrieve the ED before Voldemort would.

Really? I don`t have the book right now...r u sure? Could u quote that part pls?
So...if it`s true, is Dumbledore...bad?

It's really strange, I found that piece:

"If you planned your death with Snape, you meant him to end up with the Elder Wand, didn't you?"
"I admit that was my intention," said Dumbledore, "but it didn't work as I had intended, did it?"
"No," said Harry. "That bit didn't work out."

So, if DD's intentions would have been right, Snape would have been the right owner of the Elder Wand, and when LV killed him, LV would have been?! OMG, Dumbledore couldn't have wanted this!

Dumbledore really is...bad/stupid Did Snape know anything about the EW?

Whether it answers the question of why dumbledore lead them to the hallows or not i don't know--but for me the significance is that once again Harry is given a choice--should he follow his desire to possess, to own the elder wand or do what dd asked him to do--destroy the horcruxes....
As it goes in 7 books, when Harry goes against Voldy, he generally wins or at least gets away. So, when Harry is faced with the decision to go after LV (who is headed to DD's grave to access the Elder Wand) or head to Gringotts to nab the Hufflepuff cup he actually chooses to save his own life and the wizarding world without even comprehending the seriousness of his action--the preciouse naivete of youth really doing good because that's what he is.
Had Harry challenged voldy and won--he, as the 7th horcrux--or otherwise landlord to a piece of voldy's soul, would have left himself open to be the only remaining vehicle for voldy's next return...with no harry potter left to challenge, protect, etc...
Harry, whose presence is so undervalued by so many in the wizarding world, is not even acknowledged-except by those who get on board with this theory!!!!!!!! (Our choices define us more than our destiny!!!!)

I, too, thought it was kind of strange that the title of the last book is deathly hallows since they were important to the story in terms of they revealed alot but not important to the fall of Voldemort. But then again, what else could she have called it? The Hunt For Voldemort? No, too boring. Something with horcruxes? No, because we already knew about those...I don't think there was anything else she could've called it without giving anything away in the title.

That being said I have to disagree with the theory that DD wanted Harry to know about the horcruxes because Harry needed to understand he was the true master of the elder wand. Dumbledore had to write his will before the journey to get RAB's locket, before Snape killed him and therefore before Draco disarmed him. DD knew Snape would kill him but he couldn't possibly know the tiny detail of Draco disarming him. Even more, he couldn't know that Harry would disarm Draco sometime in the future. He wrote the will, giving Hermione the book that led them to the hallows, before any of this happened therefore he would not know that Harry was supposed to be the true master of the elder wand. Also remember he told Harry he really meant for Snape to end up with the elder wand.

Though he definitely did need Harry to understand the purpose of the resurrection stone or he would have been a little bewildered after the snitch opened, revealed the ring with the stone and his parents, Sirius and Remus came floating out of the stone. That could be one reason.

The other reason, I think, is because he simply wanted Harry to know the truth. That Harry deserved to know, that he was ready to finally know and understand everything he hadn't told him before.

I agree with you babydoll, on the subject of the elder wand meaning to end up with Snape and the fact that DUmbledore didn't think that Harry was the true owner of the elder wand. However, DD knew that Harry was the true owner of one of the hallows (the cloak). And DD also knew that Harry was going to get the stone, thus obtaining 2/3s of the hallows. This then leads one to get into a deeper theme of Harry Potter, one that answers the question of this topic.

Harry now has two hallows and has lost his parents, Sirius, and now DD. So starts the seventh book, we do not know about the second hallow yet, but we do know that LV is still after Harry and it is time for Harry to begin his journey in finally destroying Voldemort. So we get to the final battle and we discover that Harry is, for the first time, facing Voldemort by himself. No one to help him, no objects to hide behind, no loopholes, no windows to fall out of; it's just him and LV.

Well this can't happen....As much as I am a Harry fan, I'll be the first to admit that he has never faced LV truly by himself, so what will be with Harry this time around? That is why the Deathly Hallows are so important, that is why they are part of the title, and that is where I disagree with babydoll. The deathly hallows were important to the fall of Voldemort. They were the one thing that stood in the way of LV killing Harry this time. He ran out of people to help him, so he got the Deathly Hallows.

Using this reasoning, that something had to help Harry defeat LV, is why I feel that the title of the seventh book is very accurate and is true to the series.