For all those that have read HPDH already, then here is the thread for all those things that you deem wrong or inconsistent. Just like the number of students in Howarts has always been debated on, I am sure that there are others that are specific to HPDH.

For instance, how was Ron able to tell Harry and Dobby that they could use Shell Cottage as a safe house, if he was not the secret keeper? This was in the Malfoy's basement, when Dobby came to rescue them via his 'house elf magic'. Surely Ron could not go against the Fiduleus Charm?

Anyway, I am sure that there are others now I have started, but I will need to re-read to find others. Also, if you want to link your ideas to facts from the other books then thats cool. Just make sure thats there's some sort of link to HPDH if you can.

I look forward to reading all your thoughts and ideas.

~ Potters Phoenix ~

I am going to change the title of this thread. I think it could cover any other mistakes or inconsistencies in The Deathly Hallows.

I remember JKR making a couple of continuity errors in a few of the books, so I am guessing this could be one of those. But you do have a point, I think she made a boo boo with this one, I picked up on it myself at the time, but thought I must have missed something earlier in the book.

The Trace certainly seem to be inconsistent with the other books as well. IT seemed convient to create that tracking system as to give Harry a harder time to leave his house.

Hmm the inconsistancy with Godric's sword annoyed me, it seemed merely convenient for JKR to bind it to the sorting hat, allowing her to finish the story off quicker.

I was thinking about the invisibility cloak.

Please correct me if I'm wrong, cause I'm not 100% sure, but the invisibility cloak, which Harry has been carrying, believing it is a normal invisibility cloak, is meant to be pretty much impenetrable (as a hallow). Like someone was saying that it pretty much made the person disappear, yet Mad-Eye could see it, and I think it showed up on the Marauders Map ... not entirely sure.

I noticed the shell cottage point too, thought that was weird. But overall, I didn't notice too many, which is really really great!

maybe you can say the name of the cottage, but cant say where it is? and dobby is a house elf; its been said hundreds of times that their magic differs, so maybe the charm doesnt effect him? dunno!

and yeah, i didnt quite get how the sword was back in the sorting hat...

Mad Eye's mad eye was truely...unique? But then again assuming that, you could say he was more powerful than Death in that way, which would be a bold and idiotic statement to make.

Maybe this is not a mistake, sorry then, but after Snapes death, Harry came to Headmasters office , and there were no characters in frames (in portraits) because they left to other other portraits.. And I wonder, why JK didnt mention Snapes potrait ? I mean she didnt need to but, Snape still havent told Harry what Dumbledore wanted him to say.

Here's something I didn't think added up. In OOTP When 'Tuney' says the stuff about the dementors, she says it was James that was telling Lily about them and she just overheard. However in the bit where we look in snapes pensieve we find that SNAPE is telling lily about the Dementors when tuney is listening in.... Correct me if i'm wrong please!

no, she says 'that boy'. i took it to mean james, but apparently not!

I agree... And somewhere - maybe in that conversation she said like "that ugly boy" . I am not sure because I dont have english version but someone mention that before about year ago or more. And it was interesting, Petunia always called James with his name I dunno was it "james" or "potter" or "your father" , and when she said "that ugly boy" someone concluded that it was not James -> it was Snape

In Snape's memories, it showed him talking to Dumdledore's potrait in the headmaster's office about Harry being transfered early from the Dursleys but this happened BEFORE Snape was appointed Headmaster so I wonder how he got into the Headmaster's office. I thought only the true headmaster could get into the office unless you had the password and I doubt McGonagal (the acting headmistress) would have given Snape the password when she thought he had killed Dumbledore. Also, Dumbledore makes mention there of the Carrows getting control of Hogwarts but they hadn't even been made teachers there yet. Dumbledore's portrait seems to know a lot more than the other portraits ever did. I did love that chapter though despite what may have been some inconsistencies.

One thing I was wondering about was the polyjuice potion. It seemed to last a lot logner than the allotted hour it was menat to, especially at the wedding.

Do we ever know for sure what that shapeless creature is at "Kings Cross" station. I took it to be the formless LV, but didn't ever know why it would be there since LV was still alive gloating over having killed HP.

I may have missed it, but how did Godric Griffindor's sword get away from Griphook? I thought it was a major plot point that the sword in Griphook's hands was unavailable, hence the need for Ron to imitate Harry speaking parseltongue to get the basilisk fangs from the Chamber of Secrets.

Why didn't we see Helga Hufflepuff's cup being destroyed? How did it happen, was it a basalisk fang?

Oh well, my book is in the hands of my daughter who lives far away now, a good reread is what I need!

I would imagine that they kept taking the potion at the wedding.

The worst 2 mistakes/plotholes for me were:

1.The sword coming out of the hat after Griphook ran away with it.

2. Ron somehow teaching himself suddenly to open the chamber of secrets. I mean it would have only taken about another page for Ron and Hermione to explain to Harry that they needed to go down there and for Harry to go and open the chamber.

I don't know that I believe Kreacher just turned nice to HP just because of RABs locket as a gift. Generally Kreacher seemed too given to the dark arts and pure bloodedness to throw it all over for a simple locket. I'm glad it happened, but it seems a little unbelieveable.

I also didn't like delores umbridge being the one to come into posession of the slytherin locket. How could she have confused an emerald snake for a mere "S" and considered it automatically a symbol of her relatives Selwyn?

Wasn't it way too easy for HP and others to get out of Gringotts dungeion on the back of the blinded dragon?

Again, I'm glad the book had the results it did, it just seemed in some places that the plot solutions were too "easy" to be believeable. But I STILL LOVED THE BOOK.

It is the part of Voldemort soul inside Harry that is dying because of the real Voldemort's curse. Since it inhabited Harry when Harry was a baby, that soul part was in form of a baby.

The sword of Gryffindor was hexed to be available for any true Gryffindor by Godric himself.
Regardless where it is, it can still appear to the one needs it at the right moment.

Ron told Harry that the cup was destroyed by Hermione using the basilisk fang in the Chamber of Secrets.

Point 1 is mentioned above.
Point 2: During Harry's visit to Ravenclaw Tower, Ron and Hermione decided to go down to the Chamber of Secrets. From book 2, Ron saw and heard how Harry opened the Chamber. A while before in DH, Ron heard again how Harry said it to open the Locket. Most likely Ron is fascinated by the language so he remembered the phrase. It's only one word anyway "Open". Ron tried several times and succeeded. Had he not succeeded, Harry would have been surely called to do it.

I definitely agree that the whole series is not foolproof. Jo still has a homework to revise previous series. Nonetheless, DH seems to be good.

I found myself wondering about the polyjuice potion as well. I read at least once that someone had drank a rather large dose of it, so maybe it was supposed to last longer...

As for the "creature" at Kings Cross... I think that was symbolizing the small part of Voldemort's soul that was inside of Harry. Now that they had been hit with the Avada Kedavra curse, it had separated them for the journey into the next world.

I also wondered about the invisibility cloak, but because I sometimes thought that it was left behind and then just turned up again. I guess it had happened so many times throughout the series that JKR no longer wrote in how Harry grabbed it before he fled.

As for Gryffindor's sword. Here is my interpretation of that. There was a debate earlier in the book as to whether or not Godric bought the sword, stole it, or actually had it made for him. If it was made for him and was left to Hogwarts (stated by Scrmgeour that it belonged to Hogwart's), then the magic tied to it would bring it back when it was truly needed. Nevill, being a true Gryffindor, pulled the sword out of the Sorting Hat just as Harry did in the Chamber of Secrets.

Lastly, it made sense to me that Ron would be able to remember how to speak on word in Parseltongue, as he heard Harry say it once in this book, and other times as well. Then we were told that Hermione had stabbed the cup in the Chamber with a basilisk fang.

I was wondering how Colin Creevy ended up at Hogwarts. He is a muggleborn and LV was registering them and taking away their wands so unless he was hiding out in the Room of Requirement, he shouldn't have been in Hogwarts at all for the final battle.

Oh and I'm glad someone explained about the sword of Gryffindor. I was wondering how it just appeared randomly at the end after Griphook had taken it during the whole Gringotts escapade.

I think that it is the special connection between Gryffindor's sword and Gryffindor students that Neville could get the sword out of the hat. Anyway could students from other houses get different things from the hat?

I wondered about the polyjuice potion too, but maybe JKR just didn't mention Harry taking it (and in the ministry too).
I think that with some practise, Ron would have been able to open the chamber of secrets, because you don't have to speak and understand a language to pronounce words correctly. I merely wondered why Harry didn't realize where Ron and Hermione had gone and how they got out of the chamber and up through the pipe without Fawkes...

For instance, how was Ron able to tell Harry and Dobby that they could use Shell Cottage as a save house if he was not the secret keeper? This was in the Malfoy's basement, when Dobby came to rescue them via his 'house elf magic'. Surely Ron could not go against the Fiduleus Charm?

i understood the fidelus charm was cast after the arrival of harry, ron, hermione, and the others at the shell cottage...
re-read is a must!

She didnt confuse the symbol at all. She took the locket from Mundungus, as we know, and not knowing at all what it really was, she made up the story about the Locket being of the Selwyn family so as to re-confirm her 'pureblood' status. She wouldn't want the leader of such a movement as she to be questioned on her blood status, would she?

okay I know were not supposed to do one liners so I'm going to try and stretch this.. But what about Hermione's middle name?? When they read dumbledore's will they said jean... isn't it Hermione Jane?? or am I reading too many fan fics??

But i too had ny concerns about the poly juice potion! I mean it's supposed to be an hour. and they wandered around the Ministry for a long time.. Plus the wedding too!! Or like someone else said maybe it just didn't need to be pointed out that they kept drinking to stay who they were supposed to be!!

In terms of the locket. Maybe Umbridge DID know but just did not want to tell anyone, it DID seem like she was making the whole thing up about Selwyn.

I noticed a little mistake at the beginning about the sack of clothes when Moody says that if the clothes that people are wearing are too big, then there are clothes 'there' and vice-versa. But surely all the Harrys would be the same size, so all the clothes would need to be the same size also and not dependent on how big or small the initial person was?

In terms of the sword, far fetched but not out of the realms of the sorting hat.

And I think that Colin Creevey, as a member of the DA must have just been hiding out in the ROR to rebel.

This is a great thread...

How did Dumbledore defeat Grindelwald if Grindelwald had the Elder Wand? I thought it was supposed to be undefeatable...

Just wondering- we never hear of the locket affecting Umbridge at all, though the book never really went into great detail regarding umbridge. I thought maybe because her soul wasn't as pure/clean as harry, ron, or hermione's or something like that, but I'm not sure... you'd think it would have had some kind of effect on her, since the effect on the rest of the people to wear it was great. Also, if LV put a curse on the ring that starts killing you if you wear it, why wouldn't he do the same for the locket? more protection never hurts, and harry/ron/hermione never even thought of that so they probably would've died because of it if lv had done that...

I'll see if I can answer some of these...from my understanding



I think Moody was refering to after they had transformed. If they didn't need a change of clothes, then they'd be set. If they did, for instance, Fred would need a change of clothes because his would have been too big or baggy. Hermione would need a change since her clothes were...well...feminine and shorter. But that still doesn't really explain how there were other sizes. There should have been just one.



Grindelwald, I think, had stolen it from Gregorovitch (right?). He therefore wasn't the rightful owner, just like Voldemort. Dumbledore then defeated Grindelwald, since the wand assumed a normal type of wand. Then that wand became Dumbledore's and assumed the actual Elder Wand. Thats how, I think, Draco was supposed to be the rightful owner after Dumbledore since he got the wand off of Dumbledore while on the tower (Dumbledore was busy freezing Harry in place).

I think that brings up another question. If Harry was under the invisibility cloak, which was a Deathly Hallow and described as impenetrable (I think thats how it was described), then how did Dumbledore use a spell on him on the tower?

The sword part confunded me. I also dont agree with Ron getting into the Chamber like that.. then can't anyone do that? It is misgiving, but ohwell, shes excellent writer.

It wasn't curse proof, Harry makes a comment about that in the King's Cross chapter in regards to his parents.

"The Cloak wouldn't have helped them survive, though," Harry said quickly. "Voldemort knew where my mum and dad were. The Cloak couldn't have made them curse-proof."

"True," sighed Dumbledore. "True."

So there we have it.. the Cloak still allows spells to be cast on the wearer. I believe JKR has some explaining to do about the Elder Wand though.

The cloak is impenetrable, not the one inside it. For example, when Harry is in Hogsmeade, the Death Eater summons the cloak. it doesnt work. but if the DE knew where Harry was, and used the killing curse, Harry surley would have died.

Speaking of the Elder Wand: If it can't be defeated, then how did Malfoy get it from Dumbledore???

Exactly, Dumbledore was busy worrying about Harry and was distracted. Maybe Dumbledore knew this and had some way of distracting Grindewald. I read somewhere that the Elder Wand is only all powerful in a 1v1 duel, where the wand possessor was focused only on the individual they were facing. Plus, there was some back story on the fact that people would attack the owner of the Elder Wand in their sleep, or at other times when they were vulnerable. Dumbledore was a far more powerful wizard than Malfoy, but because he wasn't focused on only Malfoy, he didn't really have a chance...

We don't know the story of how Dumbledore defeated Grindewald to win the Elder Wand, but I feel that we have been provided with enough back story to at least guess a few of the possible ways that it came to be.

The worse mistakes for me were

1.The sword coming out of the hat after Griphook ran away with it.

2. Ron abd Hermione running of to open the Chamber of Secrets even though it had been sealed

3. and the shell cottage thing which ron would not have been able to say seeing as thouh he was not the secret keeper

I dont get why harry faked dead! What if they buried him while he was alive. I also didnt get how malfoy was the rightful owner of the ELDER WAND and not voldemort! -- Can you please let me know if you understood it better than me!

--Fleur

harry faked death because nagini was still in her "cage". If he just got up and attacked voldemort, it would be pointless, and if he just put the cloak on, voldemort would have realized that harry was missing, and he would still be stuck with the same problem. as for malfoy being the owner, its because malfoy defeated dumbledore without attacking him. if it werent for malfoy using expeliarmus (dont know how to spell it) on dumbledore, he wouldnt have been cornered wandless, which resulted in his death. although dumbledore planned it out, it still caused malfoy to defeat him. snape didnt defeat dumbledore because he did it on dumbledore's orders, he didnt truly want to kill him and never dueled him either, so he never defeated dumbledore. long explaination, but hope it helps.

When harry is talking to Ollivander, he explains that you don't have to kill someone to defeat them. All Harry did to Draco was disarm him, and all Draco did to Dumbledore was disarm him. So therefore Draco was the rightful owner, until Harry defeated him. Then Harry was the rightful owner of the elder wand.

Didn't Ron stay at the Shell Cottage when he left Harry and Hermione? That would explain how they could get there.

To me the timeline was off. How could Snape get into the headmasters office over the summer to talk to Dumbledore's portrait? He wasnt headmaster yet so it should have been sealed off from him.

Speaking of that, why should Snape still be in the Order's loop after he killed Dumbledore? Dumbledore said it would raise suspiscion if Snape didnt tell LV when Harry was leaving, but by that point as far as the Order was concerned Snape was out.


Maybe the locket did affect Umbridge, but not noticably since she's already a terrible person.

off-topic- Umbridge mentioned her family was the Selwyn's right? wasn't there a Death Eater with that name? I'll have to look again.

Harry faked dead so that he would live to fight later. He knew Voldemort would want to gloat over his body and take it back to the castle to prove that Harry had died.

How come Dumbledore was buried with his wand, if at the end of HBP his wand was blasted away from him just before he died? Remember when Malfoy came running out of the castle and shouted "Expelliamus" just before Snape killed Dumbledore? Did they just come across his wand and bury it with him?!?!?!?!

Bingo, I'd forgotten that useful slippet of information.

However, how did Narcissa know that Harry was still alive? Or was she merely guessing?
Not really continuity, just strange.

I assumed that there were other portraits of Dumbledore, which could have communicated with Snape and given him the Headmaster's Office password. Also, what implies Snape is still in the Order? I think these conversations are just going on between him and Dumbledore at this point, with DD giving him info to pass on to LV, so that he will remain confident in Snape. Dumbedore thinks Snape is his best chance of keeping Hogwarts students at least alive and unharmed. If LV turns on him or tires of him, Snape won't be able to become Headmaster...even though he's no longer in the Order, LV has to believe he has good sources to tap.

J

That's just it. Snape isn't in the Order, so he shouldnt have any info to pass on. I understand Snape needing to stay in LV's good book, but I cant see how Snape should have any info from LV's point of view other than what he might find elsewhere, which Snape could lie about.


edit: I think it said Snape was at the headmaster's desk.

I think people would find DD's wand near the tower and bury it with him as an honor. After the DE fled, people would need to check for damage around the tower or deliberately search for the wand. As nobody was seen to pick it, it should be somewhere near where Dumbledore had fallen.


Narcissa was bending close enough to feel Harry's heart and breath. She knew Harry was alive and conscious, so she asked him about Draco.

I see what you mean HOWEVER it was a big part of Dumbledore's speech in CoS that the sword could be drawn from the hat by a true Gryffindor... it never said when, she'd never written that it couldn't be transferred from its location to whoever needed it.



Snape isn't in the order but he still talked to Dumbledore's portrait about what actions to take. Snape remained valuable to the Dark Lord because of the information he had provided previously.

Also, anyone asking how Snape could have spoken to Dumbledore's portrait over the summer; I'm not sure! However, Dumbledore must have had all this planned out precisely as he had with everything else.

The main thing I wondered is whether there was a portrait of Snape in the headmasters office? I suppose there was but it would defeat the whole idea of his ending in the book if Harry trotted up to the office and said "Corr fanks Snape!" to be honest, it's not like Snape's gonna turn around and be super nice to Harry; he still didn't like him!

NM
xxx

Okay, as for Snape he was kicked out of the Order, how did he know when Harry was going to leave? Dumbledore told him the idea. Told him to tell Mundungus the time and everything then said it to Voldemort. I think.

I think that for the Elder Wand, JK thought it was too minor a detail to add it, like how Harry got back his invisibility cloak, it's just there. And Harry just took Draco's wand and he was it'd new 'master' and Draco 'took' Dumbledore's wand from him so he was the new 'owner'. In the theory on how people got the Elder Wand it was always killing. I think that they only killed each other so that that person couldn't get it again, or they were power hungry and didn't want that person blabbling.

I dunno, Snape was headmaster, so, if the tradition continued, his portrait should be there...unfortunately. I can't imagine Snape in a painting, a little creepy too me.

With the shell cottage idea, even if Ron had stayed there over Xmas, he wasn't the secret keeper, so he could not speak the name of the place. Like there was a need for a piece of paper hand written by DD in OotP to tell Harry that they were at 12 Grimmauld Place. So I don't think that that fits.

Also, why was Harry able to get into the heads office without a password at the end of DH? When DD had vacated the room in OotP, it still required a password - remember the Umbridge tantrum.

With the sword and the sorting hat, I reckon it has something to do with the fact that they were both owned by Goric Gryffindor in the first place - according to JKR wizard of the month.

There were some definite inconsistencies in DH, Shell Cottage was the biggest in my opinion, hopefully JKR will explain or just admit she didn't think it through, she has been known to gloss over minor plot points before

Ron took Hermione to the cottage i believe, and as we saw earlier when Hermione took Yaxley by accident to Grimmauld place that overides the secret, so perhaps the same thing happened if Ron apparated inside the hidden cottage's grounds with her, as for Dobby, i'm sure 'house-elf magic' will suffice, they rarely seem to apply to magic cast by wizards so it's not that far fetched really

The sword appearing for Neville seems reasonable, the sword was truly Gryffindor's and the sorting hat could provide it when it was needed, who knows where it was in CoS? probably exactly the same thing happened for both Harry and Neville, the way JKR showed the Goblin's mentality kind of indicates that they were greedy and in the wrong, so the sorting hat returned the sword in a noble fashion

Snape in the office before the end of July also intrigued me, McGonagall would've still been headmistress during this time, so it's possible that Snape snuck in to the office, it's also possible the portrait Dumbledore suggested a password to McGonagall which allowed Snape in (or it hadn't changed), the password was Dumbedore when Harry went up to the office to use the pensieve, and the room seems more than simply safeguarded, it and the portraits will act how they see fit, hence refusing Umbridge entry and allowing Harry up at the end of the book without a password - the portraits are also only meant to aid the headmaster, so they always feign sleep when Harry is there but we've heard them talking animatedly when Harry was approaching the door before, Dumbledore's portrait was just doing its job when advising Snape

I felt that the legend around the invisibility cloak was a bit ambiguous, considering Moody could see through it and you could be hit while wearing it, the legend said it made the used impervious to curses - this is presumably just legend and exagerrated as you probably wouldnt get hit by your enemies, and the cloak itself can't be damaged, but still i'm not 100% solid on the issue

Harry did know the password, on his way to see snapes thoughts in the pensieve the gargoyle asked him for a password and harry said 'Dumbledore' without thinking and the gargoyle let him in (lucky guess!). Im guessing at the end of the book the gargoyle although knocked aside knew harry had known the password and so let him in when harry asked if he could go through.
Hope this helps!

If Harry was the rightful owner of the elder wand after disarming Draco, then how was Voldemort able to cast AK on him the first time. We know that Voldemort was getting up as well, so my guess is that the Horcrux in Nagini saved him. But it still does not make sense that it would have affected Harry.

The master of the Elder Wand can still have it used against him.. I don't remember reading it anywhere that it said the Elder Wand will not harm the one it sees as its Owner. The Elder Wand only renders the Owner invincible if they are actually using the Wand, which at the time, Harry was not.

Ok, I have one mistake, and one thing that just doesn't add up for me.

1. On page 116, Hagrid says it is 6 years to the day since they met. He is incorrect, they had met 16 years earlier at least, since he flew Harry to his relatives house, and had probably known Harry since birth.

2. Voldemort thought he alone knew about the Room of Requirement. However, the room where things were hidden was STUFFED with items from others in the castle, how did Voldemort think he alone knew about it? And then, in HBP, Draco is in the room for almost a year, and gets a bunch of Death Eaters through the room, did they ALL forget to mention to Voldemort that they used the room to get to Dumbledore? I find that very hard to believe.