Dumbledore admitted to Harry that he had been expecting Voldemort to pursue the Elder Wand since the graveyard battle, and that he had intended for Snape to end up with the Wand after it's power died with Dumbledore.

Snape was murdered because LV believed him to be the master of the Elder Wand. That LV was wrong doesn't really matter. Even if Dumbledore's plans had not gone awry, LV still would have been led to Snape and to the same conclusion he reached erroneously - Snape killed Dumbledore, Snape is the Master of the Elder Wand, Snape has to die.

Why would DD want Snape to end up with the Wand, especially a wand without power? Was he setting Snape up, or he did truly believe Snape able to defend himself once Voldemort tracked the Wand's movements?

Or was Snape supposed to hide/destroy it and simply tell LV that some unknown person took it? We aren't given clues whether or not Dumbledore told Snape about the Elder Wand, but it does not appear that he did.

If I remembered corectly, when D. and Snape were talking about it, D. wanted Snape to kill him because Malfoys soul is still undamaged, he didnt kill anyone, and D. said something about humiliation or embarasment (sorry if i am wrong, english is not my primary and i read english book) and so he asked snape to end it. And about that topic question, I dont think D. planned it. While he was talking with Harry on Kings cross, they were talking about wand, and D. said : "Poor Severus". I think that sentence was of a man who didnt plan something, if he did I think he would choose different words, and he would probably said harry that he knew. So, i'm thinking D. didnt plan.

This may sound like I am making Dumbledore out to be the bad guy, but I think that this is another of those things to be given the title 'A Flaw in the Plan'.

Obviously had Draco not already disarmed Dumbledore, the Elder wand would have passed to Snape when he killed him. I think DD's plan was for Harry to get the wand, but for this to happen ,Harry would have had to be the one to kill or at least get the better of Snape. Luckily for Harry this flaw in the plan worked in his favour, because just think of the remorse that Harry would have felt if he had indeed killed Snape. But then Harry didn't have it in him to AK anyone anyway.

So I have gone around in a complete circle and come back to no, I don't think DD planned Snapes death, because if he had he would have arranged it with someone and not left it to chance, because he would have known that Harry wouldn't do it no matter what.

Did that make any sense at all???

If DD's plan had worked, the wand's power would have died with him, and Snape would have been left with an ordinary or useless wand. There'd be no reason for him to want to the wand to go on to Harry.
Even if Snape had gotten the wand and turned it over to LV, LV would have reached the same conclusion. It seems that DD ensured LV would follow the wand's path directly to Snape and didn't warn Snape about it.

I hope this makes sense. DD didn't know about the attack that was due to happen at Hogwarts, and therefore didn't expect to be stuck on the tower that night after having taken that potion. He did however, know that he was close to dying, because of the spell that LV had placed on the ring that DD worn. Snape told him he had a maximum of a year, so DD knew that his time was drawing to aa close.

I think his original plan if he had one, would be to die without be defeated, so that the Elder wand that was in his posession would not pass onto another person, endangering them in the future. So when Draco disarmed DD unexpectedly on top of the tower, DD was worried about Draco's future. He then tries to persuade Draco to come over to the good side, where he would be protected.By this time, DD knows that Draco will not kill him, otherwise he would have done it quickly. So DD makes the decision that he must be killed tonight by someone that is known to LV, in order to save a child - Draco. DD then becomes face to face with Snape and begs him to murder him as they have previously thought might come if there was ever a problem. Snape does, which causes (in the end) LV to believe that since Snape killed DD that he is the rightful owner of the Elder wand. The thing that DD had achieved, was making LV think that it was death that ensured the Elder wand to be passed on. Not simply defeat/disarment. So unfortunate Snape had to die in order to save Draco in the end.

Sorry that's so long, but I think it covers it.

~ Potters Phoenix ~

Dumbledore had to have realized that whether Snape had gotten the elder wand or not, that the Dark Lord would assume that Snape had it and would therefore dispatch Snape in the most covert and thoroughly non-magical means imaginable (i.e. Nagini). Therefore, it would be logical to assume that Snape's death was a direct resultant of Dumbledore's insatiable desire to be undefeated even in death. Furthermore, it is also logical to assume that Dumbledore realized Snape's days were numbered as well. Nice guy, eh? Se gap lai nhe.

I don't think dumbeldore had a plan he knew voldemort would go after it eventually but i don't think voldemort knew dumbeldore had it intill sometime in the 7th book dumbeldore was hoping he would never figure out that he had it and dumbeldore knew the wand diddn't have to be passed on by murder because of the way he goot it from grindewald but what doesn't make sense is the fact that shouildn't voldemort had realized that to because grindewald was never killed but maybe he over looked that

I'm curious (along these same lines), that if Dumbledore died from the curse before Draco or Snape could kill him, would that trigger the Unbreakable Vow and kill Snape? I reread the vow, and it sounds like Snape is required to step in for Malfoy if it looks like the latter would fail ... and Dumbledore on his own would definitely make Malfoy fail.

Upon his death, Dumbledore did not know that LV was aware of, or would ever be aware of the Hallows. While he planned for the elder wand to fall to Snape, he could not have known that LV would kill Snape to gain control of the wand.

I think Dumbledore knew LV would look for powerful wand to defeat HP after he heard the incident at Graveyard in Little Hangleton.
One thing went wrong for Dumbledore's plan is LV thought that he has to kill the owner to possess the wand's power rather than defeat him.
If LV knew he didn't have to kill his right-hand man, I think he would spare Snape.
So I think Dumbledore didn't plan Snape's death.

Is this too easy?

Lillian

I don't think Dumbledore 'planned' Snape's activities. Snape always had a choice and Dumbledore had decided it was his time in order to protect Draco as he had not yet killed at that time. Every man has a choice in the end and while Dumbledore anticipated Voldemort's moves, it could have gone in a different direction had all the parties decided differently.

he didn't plan severus's death because he said that it didn't work as planned in harry potter and the deathly hallows

I don't think Dumbledore planned for Snape to die, I think he intended Snape to personally tell Harry what we see about Snape in the pensieve. I think he saw his oppurtunity when Draco disarmed him - I can't really see Dumbledore giving that wand freely unless he had no choice, and if Dumbledore already knew that Voldemort was after the eldar wand, he probably guessed that Voldemort didn't truly understand about the passing down of the wand - Voldemort's own arrogance would have thought it to go to the one who actually does the killing, not the disarmer, or thief...that's why Voldy had to vist Gregorovitch first - he was the last person to actaully kill the owner of the eldar wand (this is not proven in the book though, it's just a guess...)

I think I might have just massively contradicted myself, and said that, yes, Dumbledore did intend Snape to die...

Anyway, you get the gist...

I think that DD in the end knew that Snape would die either by the hand of Harry or by the hand of Voldemort. Lets remember that if for some reason Snape decided to tell Harry the truth Harry would have refused to fight agains Snape and LV would have noticed something. But there is the other part that I think Snape would be too proud to admit to Harry that he was in love with his mother and that the only reason he hated Harry was the fact that he resembled his father so much and that he Snape was the one that brought the news to Voldemort about the prophecy. Snape is a great wizard and I am sure that if it had come down to the fact that he needed to duel Voldemort for the elder wand he would have done it.

Why didn't Snape duel Voldemort before he killed him? Snape thought that Voldemort would have given him the chance to go to the boy but once again Snape place his hopes in the wrong person. I think that for the story not to get so complicated JK prefered that Snape died and that we remembered him as the "bravest man" Harry has ever known.

If Malfoy hadn't disarmed Dumbledore, if Snape had just killed him without disarming him would that still make Snape the owner of the Elder Wand? If so, shouldn't DD have realized LV would kill Snape to become the true master of the wand? (B/c DD asked Snape to eventually kill him, he couldn't have predicted Malfoy would disarm him first).

he definitely could have predicted that malfoy would disarm him because snape wasnt just going to kill him for no reason. he would wait until he absolutely had to kill dumbedore. dumbledore knew that malfoy would be to scared to kill dumbledore...at least for a while and would just disarm him or hex or whatever. so dumbledore probably had a pretty good idea that malfoy would just disarm. i think that wheather snapes death was planned or not dumbledore definitely wanted to have Voldemort confused. and im not saying this as a persuasion in either direction, but i still think that dumbledore did think that snape was still a little dispicible because the only reason he turned away from voldemort was that he killed lily.

Harry explained it all: Because DD and Snape planned DD's death and planned that Snape will kill DD, DD was never defeated, because Snape never defeated him, that way the Elder Wand would have no new master, and after DD's deather the Elder Wand's power will die with DD, Harry says it all to Voldemort before Voldemort's course rebounce on him.

Dumbledore certanly never wanted Severus dead, it was just one of the mad things only Voldemort would do.

He wanted to reach different goals:

1. Destroy the power of the elder wand.

2. Save Draco

3. Put Severus in good graces by Voldemort: Hogwarts needed Severus as a headmaster to protect the children as good as possible. And he had to take care that Harry gets the sword.

I don't think Dumbledore despiced Severus (after the first reaction, of cource). Severus had prooven to be loyal, brave and very valuable. But Dumbledore couldn't let Severus know that there was a possibility for Harry to survive, could he?


Sorry about my english... I've learned it at school...

i think that there is something about the plan that we don't know but i don't think he meant for snape to die. in the knig's cross chaptre when harry told him about it he said something like "yes-that part didn't end up to well." but wether he meant to die undefeated or have snape have the wand, i don't know

I think, this part refers to that that DD wanted Snape to have the wand. He says that this didn't work out as he intented, although he wanted him to end up with the Elder Wand. It's exactly written in that part:

"... you meant him to end up with the Elder Wand, didn't you?"
"I admit that was my intention", said Dumbledore, "but it didn't work as I had intented, did it?"

but if he planned his death with snape then how would snape end up with the wand if dd was undefeated? dd has som pretty messed up intentions in my opinion

This is something that puzzles me, as well. I don't think Dumbledore would have planned Snape's death, yet at the same time, how could he have not known that Voldemort would try to go after Snape? Maybe he thought Harry would be able to finish off Voldemort or something before he realized it. I really don't know. I don't see how it works out. I think it is a possibility that this is one of those times when we just have to give JKR the benefit of the doubt. I really am not sure and I can't think of anything in the book that would explain it. I don't see any reason why Dumbledore would have possibly set Snape up for death, but I also don't see how he wouldn't realize what Voldemort would do.

Well, I don't know because if DD wanted Snape to end up with the EW, he could have done it, but without the Wand, it's totally impossible... I still cannot find any reasonable explanation, because a so much talented and clever wizard how on earth is not able to do what he intends to do?!

what i don't get if if dd wanted snape to end up ith the wand and with that planned his death then why did he bury the wand with him?

Did Dumbledore plan Snape's death? That is an interesting question. I don't think that Dumbledore would have planned anyones death except Voldemort. Dispite his past, he was a good man and wanted a good thing. I don't believe Dumbledore would have wanted anyone to kill if it wasn't needed. The way things worked out is how they should have been. The only part that gets me is how did Harry figure it out but Voldemort didn't?

The question is if Snape already knew and planned to confuse VOldy then why did he kept stick around him? I think JKR serioulsy confused and mixed up the Snape's character.

The thing about Dumbledore is that he tends to look at the big picture. I don't know if he planned Severus Snape's death outright but I think he saw the possibility of it.

What I mean is Dumbledore knows how Voldemort thinks. He knows that he doesn't bother to look at the menial tasks he gives his Death Eaters that he is using to spite others such as Wormtail and Draco...they were expendable to him. Dumbledore probably knew that even if Draco got as far to disarm him, he wouldn't have been able to finish him...Dumbledore was too strong(in voldemorts eyes) so Snape would have had to do it. Since Dumbledore put Harry on the natural path of the destroying the Horcruxes and since dumbledore had already discovered all three of the Hallows(he knew Harry had the cloak and he tried on the ring and he had the wand) he knew voldemort would be looking for a way to kill Harry. Dumbledore covered all the basis and probably figured that Voldemort would naturallly suspect Snape after he killed Dumbledore.

This is a lot of jumble and I hope you can make sense of it.

I think the answer to this particular question very much hinges on answering another question: How did Dumbledore defeat Grindelwald? The wand was, after all, supposed to be unbeatable in a duel, so by that note, if Grindelwald had the wand when he and Dumbledore fought, how did Dumbledore win? A battle of wits and wills, perhaps, or maybe something deeper? If the wand truly was unbeatable, as it seemed to be in the final battle between Harry and Voldemort, then Dumbledore's plan for Snape to be the wand's master would suggest that he was in fact planning the exact opposite; a way for Severus to survive when it came out that he was on Dumbledore's side all along, because Voldemort would, without doubt, attempt to kill him then, if not before. If however, the wand really could be beaten in a duel, then the answer is harder to come by. Perhaps he thought Snape a better wizard than Voldemort, but I don't believe that myself, so perhaps he had planned it all along, as another necessity. Had he and Snape discussed the wand? I assume so, as Snape didn't seem confused when Voldemort talked about it prior to his murdering Snape.

I'm honestly not entirely sure either way on this, but I'd like to think that he hadn't. After trying so hard to make up for his past, planning the death of another, a friend even, would have been like reverting back to a time when he was friends and allies with Grindelwald, and would have erased a lot of the good he had done in trying to make up for his past mistakes.

I have struggled with this question for a long time. I am a few minutes away from finishing the book for the fourth time (after not having read it for a year) and I had a really long post ready for all of you, until I realized something and now all of it is useless.

I want to say, though, that it's like this: Dumbledore wanted Snape to end up with the wand. A wand that he knew would be powerless (remember, he didn't enter Draco disarming him into his plan). There is no question about the fact that the wand was meant to be powerless, but ALSO that it was meant to "end up with Snape." Both of these facts are quoted by characters (Harry talking to Voldemort at the end and Dumbledore in "King's Cross" talking to Harry).

So, there is really no other way to look at it: it makes no sense that Snape should end up with a powerless wand, UNLESS, though it seems a really small, pointless reason: Dumbledore simply wanted Snape to "protect" the wand... but even so, if the wand's power had died, why would it need protecting? Well, perhaps Dumbledore was not sure the wand's power would die, he was just almost sure, but since he wasn't entirely sure, he would have wanted Snape to hide/protect it from Voldemort.

I don't really know about that one... but then, Dumbledore is cautious, so maybe. I don't know.

Here's an alternative view: Dumbledore knew that Snape lived a life of misery ever since Lily died. Snape even said he wished he were dead, remember? Two possibilities now: Snape and Dumbledore could have had a direct conversation about it -- OR -- Dumbledore could have assumed that Snape would have wanted to die after the job was finished, for Snape had no reason to live other than to protect Harry, remember? He wanted to die, but instead chose to help protect Harry; that was his reason for living. He was pretty unhappy, otherwise.

However, that seems even more farfetched than the other one, I think.

Also, we must remember that Dumbledore was counting on Snape to relay the information to Harry. If Voldemort had figured out the Elder Wand ordeal earlier, he would have killed Snape earlier. Makes you wonder what Dumbledore was thinking, if he "meant for Snape to end up with the wand." Unless, of course, he trusted an assumption that Voldemort wouldn't figure it out right away.

Oh, I don't know! Argh! But maybe what I said will help someone find the answer? I hope this isn't an error...