I thought this forum would be the best place to post this...but if the staff disagrees feel free to move it or merge it or whatever.

That being said, I'd like to open up a discussion about Sirius Black. How important do you think he was in Harry's life? Why is his death so unclear? I mean the veil, and then we're told he's dead. We don't know what the veil really is....and why its in the Department of Ministries. Furthermore, why wasnt there a service to honor Sirius?

And finally,

I've discussed some aspects of my question on various posts but I just though it deserved its own topic. I'd like to see what other people think about all this.

Let me know you opinions or theories guys!

i think that sirius's death is clear, when Bellatrix shot the spell and missed then re shot the Avada cadabra spell and hit him.
I also think that the veil is simply a crossing from the livving world to the dead world.

I agree that there remains a bit of mystery around Sirius's death... it seems that we are just left to make our own interpretations of what the veil actually is. I do think, since there was no further elaboration on it, that it really is a passage from the living world into the afterlife. It seems the only logical conclution. I would have liked JKR to tounch on the subject of Sirius's death and the veil again, but considering that she didn't, it seems that there isn't anythhing else to say.

Oh Wow...I'm totally on the same page as you Fidelis! I agree on Sirius being dead...however I wish there would have been more mention of his passing after OOTP ...I don't know I guess he just meant a lot to me as a character so maybe I miss him! I know Harry never spent all that much time with Sirius, but I always felt that it was so meaningful to Harry ( and to me ) that he has a living relative to care for him and love him...

As for your comment hidden by the spoiler tag...omg I love love love it! I had just never thought of it that way...and it makes me really happy to see it like that Thank you so much

A good idea for discussion, as there certainly still remain many unclear issues about Sirius. And let' face it, they are not likely to be answered by Ms. Rowling, are they?

How important do you think he was in Harry's life?
Harry and Sirius were not related by blood and haven't even spent much time together getting to know each other well. But despite these two facts I still think that Harry imagined having a proper family with Sirius more than with anyone else. Although Harry might understand his friends as his family, the proper one he always sees with Sirius. I think it’s because Sirius had spent do much time with his father and thus Harry takes him as close to a father figure as it gets.

I would say it's more difficult with Sirius's relationship to Harry,though. Surely Sirius takes him affectionately as his godson, ready to protect and fight for him. I certainly do not wish to take these noble motivations from Sirius, but I'm convinced that there was more to this motives. As we know, Harry resembles James to a great extent in physical appearance. And sometimes he behaves like James, and also has his mother's traits. I think Sirius just sorely misses these people in his life and sees Harry as a substitute. I don't have OoTP book on me now, but at least in the movie Sirius addresses Harry: "Nice one, James." Also, Sirius still feels partly guilty for Harry’s parents’ death and simply needs to make it up for Harry.

Why is his death so unclear?
I've already said that at some different places here at VTM. The world described in the books, though being magical, very much resembles the one we Muggles live in. And it, sadly to say, sometimes happens that some people around us die and we just don't know why it happened or where the mistake was. And I think that's why Ms. Rowling doesn't elaborate much on Sirius's death. She just likens it to the real life.

We don't know what the veil really is....and why its in the Department of Ministries
I think it is very significant that the Veil is in the Department of Mysteries. I see the Veil simply as a passage between life and death. So in that sense, the Veil symbolizes death. And death has always been a threat and a mystery for people, so there isn't more convenient place in the whole wizarding world for the Veil to be than in this particular Department.

And besides, we must say that even after the final book has been published, the Veil still remains a mystery for the readers, so again another reason for its position in this Department. Leaving the Veil's nature open might clearly be a gesture of Ms. Rowling to her readers, because we love theorizing, but if everything is explained, what can we theorize about?

Fidelis, I think the very opposite here

By leaving the issue unexplained and open, it only leaves space for the readers' imagination. Actually, you say the same thing under your tag. If the issue still remains unclear, we can discuss it to our hearts contents. Because every interpretation, as long as it is based on the facts from the books, is as valid as any other. To the other theories we have the "official" answers in the last book but not to Sirius or the nature of the Veil, so I think there is still plenty to say.

Furthermore, why wasn’t there a service to honor Sirius?
Let us just imagine that

How do these sound?

~Jana

I think Sirius was very important in harry's life.He was always concerned about him and what he was doing,Sirius also told Harry things that others were afraid to tell him.Sirius may not be blood related to H arry but he was closer to Harry than any of his blood relatives were[vernon,petunia,dudley].I do not think that having a memorial service for Sirius could have happened because remember he was a supposed criminal/escapee from azkaban.

That is just what i have to say about it.Good topic though!

Oh Wow Potions Mistress & darkempress21 thanks for the posts!

I had also thought like you darkempress21 that there could be no service at the time for Sirius cause he was an escaped convict. And I also agree that Sirius had importance by the fact that he believed in Harry enough to tell him things others thought hew wasn't ready for.

Potions Mistress I ADORE that you pointed out that since it was left open we can imagine it the way we wish...makes me feel better...hehe

I dont know, I just see Sirius as being so important to Harry and Harry also having great importance to Sirius. I agree with a previous post that yes Sirius saw a lot of James in Harry and probably transfered some of that love to Harry. And yes I agree Sirius must feel responsible for the Potters faith. But even if none of this had happened he would have loved Harry because he was James' son. And i think Harry knew this.... I guess I expected more in book 7 from Sirius...wishful thinking maybe?! hehe

Miss_Mimz, as for what you say here,

I think you are perfectly correct on this point. Sirius is the first person who treats Harry as an adult and as his equal. But as the series proceeds there is yet another person treating Harry the same and having the same belief in him - Albus Dumbledore.
But you are definitely right that Sirius is the first one and this supports how much he thinks of Harry.

And, it has just occurred to me that Sirius owes his life to Harry, and Hermione of course, which might also contribute to what he feels to Harry.


Again, I totally agree with you here. I would just add that there is still one more reason why Sirius would love Harry. It's simply because Sirius is a good person capable of love and wouldn’t see any reason why to approach Harry differently.



~Jana

Oh I Absolutely agree with you Potions Mistress that in HBP we see that Dumbledore treated Harry as an adult. I think Dumbledore took a bit longer simply because he wanted to protect Harry as much as he possibly could. Sirius, on the other hand, though I'm certainly not saying he didnt want to protect Harry, I thank he thought the best way to protect Harry was to give him all the information he could. Dumbledore himself agreed that he didn't tell Harry everything because he wanted to protect him...I just love that both of them (Dumbledore & Sirius) despite not being blood relatives, contributed so much to Harry's life, his journey and Harry himself as a person...not just ''the hero''.



...sooooo true! To think of how Sirius is introduced to us as a caracter...we're supposed to believe he's bad and out to hurt Harry. And despite all those years in Azkaban...he's STILL such an incredible person. Ugh I Love Sirius!



OMG such an insightfull observation...it truly was what Harry needed to hear! I just got shivers reading the quote...such a simple line that could have been overlooked but does it ever say a lot about Sirius and his relationship to Harry

To add something to what I have already said on this forum, I was thinking about the relationship Harry and Sirius have and I would like to ask:

Has it ever occurred to you, that Sirius's relationship to Harry is so warm because their childhood and adolescence experience are actually much alike?

What I mean is that the experience is similar when we consider the families both are brought up in. I know that Sirius has his parents whereas Harry does not, but nonetheless there are many similarities. Both of them live with their blood relatives, but the relatives do not treat them accordingly. Harry suffers with the Dursleys as well as Sirius does with his own parents. At home, or in the place they are forced by circumstances to call home but which is not real home to them, neither receives proper love. And thus they have to seek it elsewhere.

Both of them have really good friends with their families where they can turn to when they cannot stand it at home any more. And their friends' families accept them warmly. Harry has the Weasleys and Sirius used to have the Potters.

And this might be one of the reasons why Sirius appears to understand and care for Harry so much. He has lived through the lack of love at home himself and knows only too well what it feels like. Also, he is aware that Harry hasn’t received any proper treatment at home either and so he does not want Harry to suffer any longer.

It is just an idea, though.

~Jana

I think thats a great way of looking at the Harry/Sirius relationship and I couldnt agree more Potions Mistress!

Sirius did have a very similar childhood to Harry's. Both feeling out of place at their own family's homes. Both finding comfort refuge and love in their friends families. I think it would make Sirius much more empathetic to Harry and even more so protective of him as Sirius himself knows how it feels to loose those people he loved. (which in this case happens to be Harry's Family)

On top of it all both LOVED Hogwarts passionately. Though it is never expressed with the same intensity as in Harry's case I think Sirius felt very much at home at Hogwarts being that he was with his good friends there & they were his home. Much like Harry's friends were Harry's home

Well, Ok. I thought that Sirius had a Horrible life, Dealing with Dementors, Peter framing him. I thought his life was Horrible. I also thought that if you think about it, That one of the reasons Sirius and Harry have a conection is because they have about the same child-hood experience. Both being a outcast of there family's, both of there parents (Meaning the Dursleys for Harry) being ashamed of them for being different. They have a bad child-hood. And Sirius's Death Shocked me the most, as he was a father to Harry. Sirius was very important to Harry, the only living, good, loving person Harry knew.

Sirius played a pivotal role in Harry's life, even as short as that part might have been. If it hadn't been for Sirius Harry wouldn't have known nearly as much about his parents as he did. Sirius appeared as a second father for Harry, if only to teach him how to love even more then he already did.

I think that like the entire series of Harry Potter, JKR likes to keep us enthralled in the mystery of it all. She wanted us to get lost in the "what ifs". She never wanted to give away too much information and Sirius's death has just become one of the books great mysteries, just like the Veil has. Though I am sure if we look back into the books from OOTP on, you can most likely find clues as to what the Veil is and in that aspect JKR is just like our dearly departed Dumbledore, she likes to make us work for our knowledge.

As to the spoilers mentioned...
We have an entire facebook group dedicated to it.

It's obvious J.K.R. wanted us to hope that Sirius isn't dead, that he'll find a way back, and such things. That's way she didn't kill him in ordinary way, and that's way there was no body

I think he was VERY important to Harry... he was something between his father and brother... what else can you wish for?!

I really feel sorry for Sirius, he had a horrible life. He was 12 years in Azkaban, and when he got out of it, he had to hide anyway, he couldn't get out of that stupid house... and when he prooved his innocence...he died!

i really hoped sirius didnt actually die! i hoped tht he would come back even as a ghost becasue he's just like soo awesome and i love him so much! id love to have him as a godfather any day!

i mean he's just so important to harry and plays a major role in harry's life becasue he is the only family harry's got left! and jk rowling didnt even call one of harry's children sirius! i dont think that is fair! sirius is one of the most loved characters especially with us girls and he had a really hard life and what did he live it for... nothing!

sirius potter- its such a nice name!

i really wish he didnt actually die! he could and he should have come back!

i miss him

Sirius meant a lot to Harry, not only the closet he felt to having a family but also as a friend. Its really tragic what happened. Sirius lost his closest people, went to Azkaban and spent 12 years, his entire youth was taken away. When he emerged out, there was a kid trapped inside of him, his adolesence that had been deprived of its needs and wants, which is why i think he sometimes acted that way, mistaking Harry for James. He had a very hard life, something appreciated only by the readers and a few people in the story, not everyone. He even had to die as a traitor to the wizarding world, his innocent not yet proved and trapped in a house. Its very sad indeed. I think he was very brave, strong and amazing.
I love u Sirius. More than any other character in the story. His dedication to his friendship with James remains the most extraordinary thing for me, cos there are few people who would remain that loyal to anyone. (But this doesnt mean that i, in anyway, undermine Snape's love:he ofcourse take the cake. )

Well i agree with jenzy Black . . . thts totally true

everyone was going on about how much Harry suffered well to all those people i ask a question....how would it feel like to find that your best friend and his wife got killed because their and your friend betrayed him...And that particular friend betrayed you too and send you to askaban and another friend also tells you that your the worst and all and just when you get out of askaban you get locked in your own house and just as you get out you get killed ? i seriously don't think harry suffered more than sirius

I think he should have stayed alive. Harry knew for only a year the truth, and they couldn't really talk about it since Sirius had to run away.

to be honest about sirius black , the truth is that i think the death was unexpected and uncalled for. He only lasted for a year and half to be almost exact. Lets see , the third year but half of that year he was in hiding. Then there was the fourth year which is where he was around alot more and then BAM here comes the fifth year & he gets killed & harry hardly had anytime to spent with him. well i thought he was the godfather...? I really dont know what the purpose of killing him off so early is for. Better yet if we knew that he was going to be killed off then what was sirius role in harry potter? what was his purpose? did he have one or was he there to just take up an empty spot she couldnt figure out? im not being rude or obnoxious or sarcastic. im just really upset by his unexplianable death & it really bothered me. i wish i had some answers & im sure others want answers too. especially if they loved dear padfoot </3 R.I.P

& its true what jenzy black says. everything and completely . i just have mixed feelings , thats all *sigh*

I personally have always liked Sirius even before I knew he was Harry's godfather. Even though JKR didn't make Sirius have the greatest personality, he was a very important figure in Harry's life.

Sirius played a huge part in Harry's life, even if it was only for a short time while he lived. We can see the impact he had on Harry's life in the epilogue of DH - Harry gave one of his children Sirius's name. Also, he was devastated when Sirius died, he noticed it tremendously when he returned for 6th year and realised that he had no one outside Hogwarts to confide in.