In light of the shock everyone is manifesting towards JKR revelation of Dumbledore...I am more surprised of this revelation of hers:



ugh...I don't know why this shocked me but I have to say that I felt Snape had been redeemed somewhat if not completely. I mean Harry's thoughts on Snape in the Epilogue...Anyways any thoughts on this??

I think the point is that Snape is not "Good" or "Bad" in terms of a pantomime character, he is a fully rounded character, who serves himself primarily, which is why he switches sides. and does things that are both good and bad.

Also even though Harry's view of Snape is changed, there is still alot of bad blood between them, and Harry would have a lot of mixed feelings about Snape.

Snape was Bitter, he felt he should have had lilly and not james, he was vindictive throughout the series, exacting his revenge on James by punnishing Harry. Also he was mean towards harry in particular.

oh yeah thats very strinkin indeed

Ok, Harry might not visit the headmaster’s office just to have a discussion with Snape, but when he was up there I think that they could have talked, this time Harry was able to counter any nasty remarks by Snape, but with the likes of “shut up, you was capable of love yourself”, or “you just don’t want to admit how much you really did care.”

Thanks for the topic, Miss_Mimz, as I do agree with you that it really is striking. I've also read in some other interviews with Ms. Rowling that, despite what she writes in the novel, she still regards Severus as being rather on the negative side. And like you, I don't understand it either. Yes, Severus has been mean to Harry just because he so much resembles his father. But then, Severus has been able of such selfless deeds towards Harry, too. Don't these prove that in reality he is good deep down?

Severus might have been bitter and mean as Ms. Rowling says and Harry might not have come to the Headmaster's office to have a chat with his portrait, but then, he gives Severus's name, along with the name of a person Harry so much admired, to one his children. This shows how Harry feels about Severus, so Felipe_Black, I wouldn't say that there is still a lot of bad blood between the two. Certainly, there was a lot of it in the past, but I would say that there is none any more. Though you are probably right that Harry may still have mixed feelings about Severus. But I think these cleared up once he decided to give Severus’s name to his son.

Now, I don't intend to offend anyone, and Ms. Rowling in the least, because I really deeply admire the magical world she has created, but if she says that Severus was mean and bitter and she even wonders why the entire fandom sees him differently, then there is something wrong. In my opinion, this discrepancy between her and the fandom's reading of Severus proves that she, as a writer, was not able to communicate fully what she had in mind. Because as we know, HP fans seem to read our good old Severus differently from what Ms. Rowling says. I am playing the devil's advocate now slightly, but on the other hand this is my reaction to what she says.

And, annesches, I simply love Harry's answers to Severus’s “nasty remarks” you come up with. They are so true and made me laugh so hard.

~Jana

Well I hate to admit it but I agree. It seems the way she wanted Snape to be portrayed or viewed didn't come through.

I find it especially strange seeing as ( and you mentioned this point too Potions Mistress) that even Harry sees Snape as redeemed!! He calls Snape the bravest man that ever lived and I mean I think its pretty clear that yes there might still be mixed emotions where Snape is concerned but its even more clear that for Harry Snape is fully redeemed and a good person.

I mean I know Snape was no Mr Nice guy...and I know he was still bitter towards James and that he still longed for Lily. And yes he was rude to Harry but

I dont want to make this a discussion about Snape...lol I know there's a place for that. I'm just surprised that Jo's opinion of Snape is what it is...

but Snape remains confusing dont you think?
I mean I dont think that he just did everything for Lily but also loved a little harry also as he was a part of her...or did he actually hate him and did it only for her sake...
in my opinion it was maybe the love he developed towards the boy as well that made him so rude towards harry..he wanted to reject him because he had already lost someone he loved and harry was most likely to die too so he was probably trying to protect himself from another loss...but we also see that his loss would have affected him still in an awful way...
aaah snape snape snape...you most mysterious character you...

Snape is the best character in the book. Harry did fully forgive him. But I mean it really doesn't matter what J Rowling says happen between them after the fact. If she didn't write it, it didn't happen. So readers can imagine whatever they want to believe. To add, Snape had reasons for not liking Harry. Looking from Snapes point of view, it did seem as if Harry craved fame. Even Ron and Hermoine acknowledged that. And James himself was a b***h, so Snape was redeemed from the get-go.

These are highly interesting thoughts, Gwenog. I have never looked at our dear Severus in this way but there is definitely something to your reasoning.

When I read the last book for the first time, I actually understood the famous "always" scene completely differently than it was meant. I thought that through his Patronus Severus was not expressing his affection for Lily but for Harry instead. Because immediately before conjuring the charm, he reproaches Professor Dumbledore for raising Harry only to have him killed in the end. At this exact moment I was deeply convinced that Severus actually expressed his caring for Harry. And this I think, would go nicely along your train of thoughts. But after re-reading the chapter, I restructured my view of the situation and gathered that in reality Severus really referred to Lily.

So in other words, Gwenog, though your ideas are thought-provoking and I would very much like to read them in the books, I think Severus's attitude to Harry is informed by the old grudges between him and James. And then again, Severus learns only way too late into the story that Harry is to die, but his relationship to him had been rather negative long before that, so the quality of the raltionship most probably is not caused by the effort to protect himself from further hurts. So then, yes, Severus is a mean character, but I am still surprised at how Ms. Rowling keeps stressing his negative traits and she doesn't seem to have forgiven him in the least, even though Harry apparently has.

But I guess there are more appropriate places on the forums to discuss Severus-related issues, so I might have even been a little off-topic now. Sorry for that.

~Jana

Although I absolutely get what JKR is saying. Snapes affections were for Lily only, despite him being Liliy's son, Harry was still James's boy and his feelings were unchanged. But, saying this, why would she have thought to name one of Harry's children after Snape? Isn't this some kind of vindication?

I personally thought it was stupid in the epilogue when he gives his child the middle name Snape(or was it is his first name? sorry, Ive been reading the older books recently and the last book is just a blur to me)...I mean, Snape put him through HELL for 6 years.....it just doesn't seem right, even if Harry knew the truth about him by then..

My thought on this (strange as it may sound) is that Jo may have thought that Harry would have acknowledged Snape's redemption in the end. Yes, Snape was cruel to Harry based on his experiences with James. Snape came through for Harry though, and I think Harry (being the nice guy he is) would have recognised this. I'm not sure if Jo personifies her characters and considers how they would interpret circumstances, or simply writes them how she wants, but from Harry's point of view, I can see it.

I think although snape is jo's character and she knows best who he was supposed to be, people will disagree. Snape was my favourite, yes he was mean to Harry, but was harry not mean to snape also? the constant questioning of his moral character, the assumptions that he was bad even after Harry knew he'd tried to save his life as well as lupins, even though he would not allow umbridge to use a potion on harry, despite the fact that he sent the order to the ministry when harry was in troubel? And was snape not at times justified in judging harry, with his cheek and rule breaking and the way he broke into snapes private memories? If snape was supposed to be the bad guy, it should have been made clearer, maybe he shouldn't have lay his life down for harry and lily and perhaps he shouldn't have saved harry and gave him harsher punishments, then we'd be able to be justified in thinking him bad. He is forgiven his mean comments as james etc were forgiven theirs.

Well I'm not a great fan of Snape. But I do think he wasn't a too bad person.
Of course he was always picking on Harry. But considering his past.. his love for lily and hate for James, I dont think that was too strange.
Other kids were also punished by him and when it came to it... when Harry dit Sectussempra at Malfoy.. the punishment was of course not fun.. even painfull for harry (he saw the names of James en Sirius and stuff) but not cruel. I was like oh well bad but i expected a worse punishment.
Snape saved harry.. He went trough a lot to protect him.. and even thought Snape never showed it... he could love. He loved dumbledore and I think he loved Harry as much as he hated him.
Dumbledore said to snape (snape was negative about Harry's behaviour) you see what you expected to see. He hated James en he assumed Harry was exactly like james.
I think Snape had a great deal of trouble in his life and he was just human.
Bad childhood, wrong friends, lost his love on his enemy and then his love was killed.
No he had a rough life too. He was at the end good inside

(sorry for my bad english)

Wow. I always assumed that JKR liked Snape, being as she had Harry's kid's middle name Severus. o.o I missed out on a lot, obviously!
Well, I don't think he was bad. Yes, he worked for his own motives. Yes, he was mean to Harry. He was... doing the best he could, under the circumstances. But, whether she's a fan of Snape or not, I still Love him. (:

That's what being an author is, in my opinion Jasmine. You have one character that maybe another loves but that you truly hate. You have to write characters that you hate, otherwise the story's not going to be any good.

I have my own views on Severus that I won't go completely into. But he was exactly as Jo said:



It's just that simple. No matter what we make him into in the fandom, when it comes straight down to it, everyone automatically sees him as that, until you go into the diving deeper and looking at the revealing pasts that we as fans spend numerous hours doing