ok i have a question :
Did Dumbledore tell Snape that instead of dying of the curse, he would rather Snape kill him BEFORE or AFTER snape made the unbreakable vow to Narcissa that he would kill Dumbledore if Draco failed?
It's probably obvious, and i'm sorry if this has already been brought up, but i think Dumbledore must have told Snape before he made the vow. I was just reading about who was responsible for Dumbledore's death, and i realized this, and i don't remember it speculating which one came first, maybe someone could clear that up for me...Isn't it weird and coincidental how Voldemort punished Malfoy by assigning him to kill Dumbledore and Dumbledore got cursed by the ring at about the same time. Awkward!

*sigh* Sincerest apologies : / I'd answer your question with my opinion, but I haven't HBP since it came out & I have an irresponsible friend who doesn't seem to know when to return my books But when I do get the book I will answer this with a full blown response

Well... I know it's a bit soon, but i was thinking about something else: I know that most of you probably know this, but i never really paid much attention to it until i read an excerpt from the book. J.K. must have already planned from the beginning of the books that a major part of the book would have to deal with Dumbledore and Snape's relationship.
Hear me out here, but from the start Dumbledore always corrected Harry when he disrespected Snape by calling him by only his last name (Like i do ). I know this seems like a simple gesture, but i think J.K. made it deeper than what it really was. First of all, she almost always made sure that Harry said Snape's name when talking to Dumbledore. Don't you think that she was trying to show people from the get-go that this would be important. Also, Dumbledore always said that he trusted Snape completely, and he said it way too often. It surprises me how she kept the fact that she would eventually show you where his loyalty actually lies until one of the very last parts.

I'm sorry if i'm just saying nonsense to some people, but i would like to hear another opinion on whether this seems like more than a coincidence... Or maybe you could put in a little more insight. I'm going to go find out as much as i can on the subject for the time being...

Hi Clara, I said I’d come back.

Anyone miss me? I missed you guys and the thread.

The last time I posted here was January 8 2008, its now July 5 2008. That’s almost seven whole months. I don’t think I will ever be forgiven for being away for so long but I have my reasons. Everything has been so busy and I haven’t had much time for myself. But anyway…I’m back now

Firstly, welcome anyone and everyone who is new to W.A.W. And hello to all members.

Because I have missed so much, I have looked through the thread and picked out the questions I would like to answer so as you can imagine my post may be a bit long. Here I go…

Dumbledore places a huge value on freedom. Freedom of choice, thought, freedom in society and in the learning of magic.. everything. I know most people feel the need for freedom.. but his seems very strong. -Where do you think this stems from?
Personally I think down within us all, freedom is a necessity to all humans. No-one wants to be trapped within a situation, trapped in a place, trapped in a state of mind etc. The value of freedom for Dumbledore probably stems from his past, his past has trigged his subconscious, the events in his past have been compressed into strong emotions amplifying the hunger for freedom because he feels trapped perhaps. I don’t know if that made sense

Did DD ever fall in love; and if he did who do you guys think would have been his one true love?
I think, regardless of Grindelwald’s path, Dumbledore only ever loved Grindelwald. His feelings started from a young age and it must have took a lot of strength to imprison his true love. To cast aside one’s feelings in order to do the right thing but have been hard. So I think his one true love was Grindelwald and perhaps the wizarding world too.

What do you guys think about Rita Skeeter's book The Life And Lies Of Albus Dumbledore? I think we could discuss anything that was covered in the book and also does his family history change your opinion of him. How would Dumbledore deal with Rita for publishing his secrets and her methods of getting them.
I don’t think anyone likes Rita…I know I don’t. But unfortunately we need characters like Rita to loath, to scream hate otherwise the book would lack certain substance. Rita is someone who doesn’t respect anyone but herself so I didn’t matter to her that the man she wrote about was dead and so many grieved over his death. The reason being that Rita feeds on the expense and exploitation (often false) of others so what else could we expect from her when she wrote the book on Dumbledore. The history of a person tends to be what shapes them so Dumbledore’s history didn’t change my thoughts of him. I think he came out quite strong from the events that happened. As for how would Dumbledore deal with it, I actually don’t think he would react in a huge explosive way. When he and Harry we labelled as liars he used t to his advantage and came out better off in the end. So I think he would of worked in the background, slowly and secretly getting his way back. Fudge left the Minister post because of the result proving that Harry and Dumbledore were telling the truth, if Dumbledore were alive he would have done the same to Rita I think.

If you, and not Skeeter had written the book what would you have entitled it, what sources would you use, and how would you present it to the Wizarding World?
I actually probably would have named the book after this thread, ‘The Wise and Wonderful’. I would have only told the truth obviously and the book would be written in respect for the greatest wizard of all time, for a wizard that did so much for the Wizarding world but I would probably write of his past but my intention would be not to exploit him but honour him and enforce the fact that Dumbledore was a human as the next person. That his love, emotions were fact and human nature, that his mistake were human to make. ‘To error is human’ and so on and so fore.

What do you suppose life would have been like if Albus Dumbledore had taken the Minister of Magic job? Think about Hogwarts, the Ministry, the Order and how would the position have affected Dumbledore personally.
Well if he’d taken the job I think he’d be depressed and know in his heart it wasn’t the right calling for him if you like. McGonagall might have been the head of Hogwarts. But she might have had different beliefs and views on subjects because she wouldn’t have Dumbledore for discussions and maybe her influenced her mind, we don’t know. I think Harry would have failed, he needed Dumbledore for guidance. Okay this is a hard question I can’t answer it

I've always heard said that genius and insanity go hand in hand do you guys think this is true and do you think that it would apply to DD?
Well my one of my friends is a genius (his in Mensa, I think) but no way is he insane, but then again who is to say what is classed as insane. Everyone has different views, they see other people’s actions differently like the World Wars. One person may see it as a huge insane mistake to resort to violence yet another person may see it has the lesser of two evils or the only way to win etc. Anyway, the way I see it, Dumbledore actions all have been justified by a reason therefore I don’t see his actions as insane. As long as an action can be justified and as long at it doesn’t harm others on purpose or exploit them, their beliefs, their rights etc then I don’t see the action as insane. Without a doubt Dumbledore was wise, a genius but insane I don’t think so but that’s just my opinion.

Well I have answered six questions as a come back to this thread, I WILL answer more soon, promise. Until then guys…

Hi
I'm back. I'm not making any promises that I'll stay because I said that before and vanished so we shall see...

Hellooooooo
Welcome to any new members.
Hope all those I know will forgive me for being away for so long.
And as for answering questions...I'm following my sister's previous post...

Dumbledore places a huge value on freedom. Freedom of choice, thought, freedom in society and in the learning of magic.. everything. I know most people feel the need for freedom.. but his seems very strong. -Where do you think this stems from?
I think it stems from pure human nature. I think basic instinct kicks in. Humans (I doubt) would like to feel trapped and lack of freedom can make us feel that. Someone in a restrictive relationship feels trapped, has no freedom to do things and will want out. A teenager who’s grounded feels trapped or annoyed because their freedom to go out etc has been taken away.
I think Dumbledore feels so strongly about this…like we all do. He just happens to illustrate how we all feel more often. And perhaps he just lacks the fear to say it.. To say we all want freedom. Now…I had a point…let me remember…
With freedom we are able to do things, accomplish things…make things happen. Without freedom isn’t our ability to do something stopped? Without freedom we can’t make changes nor be all that we can be.

Did DD ever fall in love; and if he did who do you guys think would have been his one true love?
Grindelwald…he was in love with him I believe, despite he’s path. I think…yeah that was his true love.

What do you guys think about Rita Skeeter's book The Life And Lies Of Albus Dumbledore? I think we could discuss anything that was covered in the book and also does his family history change your opinion of him. How would Dumbledore deal with Rita for publishing his secrets and her methods of getting them.
I don’t like Rita. I doubt Dumbledore ever did. Don’t get me wrong…like my sister said we need characters like that, so she’s good…really but bad at the same time …
As a person I loathe the fact that she delved deep into someone’s life and tried to turn people against him. As a reader I think wooo…great twist and idea! But it didn’t change what I thought of him because we have heard from Rita before in the books and she always made things worse and twisted things.
As for how he might have reacted? I’m unsure but a lot of me thinks he would have kept himself to himself. Closed himself off, not spoken much and begin to re-grief for his sister. I think it would slightly break him to be honest. But I think eventually…he’d find a way to clear his name, so to speak.

If you, and not Skeeter had written the book what would you have entitled it, what sources would you use, and how would you present it to the Wizarding World?
“The Wise and Wonderful” hey that it is a good one. I would have said the truth but only what I knew was the truth…not hearsay nor lies. It would be about his accomplishments, the people he helped and the people he touched…it would be a dedication.

What do you suppose life would have been like if Albus Dumbledore had taken the Minister of Magic job? Think about Hogwarts, the Ministry, the Order and how would the position have affected Dumbledore personally.
This makes me think of “Turn Left” the Doctor Who episode…it showed the smallest changed or difference could make one hell of a changed on what happens. So perhaps things would have been completely different. I think McGonagall would be Headmistress, I think the Order would not exist. Dumbledore does not discriminate. He would have cleared Sirius’ name and took on Lupin. They would all work for the Ministry.
Hmmm this is hard…

I've always heard it said that genius and insanity go hand in hand do you guys think this is true and do you think that it would apply to DD?
“Well my one of my friends is a genius (his in Mensa, I think) but no way is he insane, but then again who is to say what is classed as insane.” --- that is true I admit sister! He isn’t what we stereotypical class as insane but yeah…what is insanity?
In my view no one is insane. Insane does not exist in my dictionary…in fact I hate the word! “Oh you are insane because you like that band” -- So should we assume that insanity is the ability to be different and to not follow a crowd? In that case Dumbledore was insane…in that sense only…

Hello all welcome back old members glad to see that you have answers & very long I might add Well it's unfortunate that I can't answers some of the questions above, seeing as I never answered them, they're new to me, so I will get to them as soon as I return & I don't know when : / so I hope when I come back there is a discussion going with many questions to answer take care all



Nickers<3

Dumbledore places a huge value on freedom. Freedom of choice, thought, freedom in society and in the learning of magic.. everything. I know most people feel the need for freedom.. but his seems very strong. -Where do you think this stems from?

I don't think it could stem from how he was in his past, when he was trapped by his family, trapped by the weight of having two brothers on his charge, 'cause he was really sorry of had thought like that. But maybe he felt trapped by the weight of the things he had done when youth, and, as all the contradictions he hold, as all the things he suffered and so tried that the others didn't have to bear, he encouraged people's freedom as a way to prevent them from being trapped as he was. I remember in OotP, when he told Sirius not the leave Grimmauld place for any reason. Harry shout at him that no man likes to be trapped, and Dumbledore admitted it, but how other way would be better to prevent him to be seen? That drove him to madness, and caused him to leave Grimmauld Place at last, but it wasn't Dumbledore's fault. Sometimes the best way of keep you freedom is not to be free.

Did DD ever fall in love; and if he did who do you guys think would have been his one true love?

Well, JK said he's only true love was Grindelwald. Maybe after that, Dumbledore decided that there wasn't necessary love somebody in that way to feel, give and receive love; I mean, he could feel love in other ways. I don't guess why he never fell in love again. Perhaps 'cause he never found it, and Grindelwald wasn't his true love. That should dissapoint him.

What do you guys think about Rita Skeeter's book The Life And Lies Of Albus Dumbledore? I think we could discuss anything that was covered in the book and also does his family history change your opinion of him. How would Dumbledore deal with Rita for publishing his secrets and her methods of getting them.

It got me really angry: Rita is always soiling people's name. When I read the first article, I was "Aaargh, how dare she?!" But at last, despite that made Harry going through a lot of pain and suffering through their journey, that made him trust in him blindly, almost resigned, to find later he had commited mistakes like all the humans, but had overpowered them like the most wise and wonderful on earth.
Dumbledore would be very angry and sad, but maybe he would have resigned to his secrets being brought at light, and recongnized them, and his followers would have accpeted him as he is and was, I think. But Rita would have never dared if he was alive, of course.

Ok, I'll answer the followings later.

Hello everyone!!

Lauren, Jade, welcome back! Dont worry if you can't be around all the time.. its just nice to see you every once in a while, and Im sure if you do pop in occasionally we can forgive you in no time!
Great posts guys, and its good to see older topics picked back up again, and seeing some newer ideas!

Im just going to go through and comment on a few bits.. so please try and put up with the very dijointed post-

First... a few of you were discussing about if and why Dumbledore doesn't wear his heart on his sleeve. You mentioned not wanting to seem vulnerable... but I don't think its just not to seem vulnerable.. but he did it, on some level, to prevent himself from having that weakness, he did it because he was really afraid of being vulnerable.
I agree that he wasnt looking for sympathy, maybe that was one of the things that helped him to keep some of his emotions bottled up, he may have been afraid that he would seem as though he was searching for sympathy, or help. Maybe he thought that he could survive some things without help, even that he didnt deserve it.
Its confusing.. Im not sure if i actually believe what Im saying, just that it's a possibility.

Then the question as to why Dumbledore didn't appear. I really don't remember much of DH so Im a little hazy on this... but from what I've read, I think the idea of 'Limbo' makes a lot of sense. Dumbledore was physically dead, yes, but if anybody has the strength of mind to hang on until he was really ready to go, Dumbledore does. I know you raised the point off it being in Harry's head.. but I don't think it was just in his head.. I do believe that he was really waiting.
I also like the idea of it only being who Harry needed to see. Its true, he had all of the answers that he needed from DD, and really, he had made his peace with Dumbledore, as though they had finally become much more equal, and there was nothing else that Harry needed before he could move on.

Next, the look of hapiness, or triumph, whatever it actually is; there's not really anything I can add here. As Insomnia said, It was mainly because Dumbledore knew that the protection given to harry was only strengthened by Voldemort's act.. the thing that finally gave him the look in his eye was the irony of the situation, that yet again, as with the horcruxes, Voldemort had only made things more difficult to himself.

Another comment that really caught my attention was something DeSs said- about harry being almost a replacement for Ariana. Its funny, I've never really thoughtt about it that way.. I'd like to see what everybody else thinks about that-
Was Harry, in part, a replacement for Ariana? And if so, does that mean that some of Dumbledore's motivation to help Harry comes from a selfish source?

And lastly.. oh yes, Amortentia_149...I'm a bit unsure on what you're trying to say on the who Severus, Loyalty and Respect issue... can somebody help me ?? Im exhausted which may explain things

Its good to see the thread thriving again, speak to you all soon!!

Clara}~

Wow, yes, that's what I think. Dumbledore kind of revindicate himself (I mean, only to his eyes, due that he was one of the only people that knew his acts and who could forgive himself, all the things we've been discussing previously) caring for this defenceless kid, alone in the world for an act of pure evilness, and ended up like loving him. Ok, but I won't say anything else because, inspired by the WAW site , I wrote a piece of fic that I still have to polish up.

And I have this question in my mind for a while, sorry if you've already discuss it, or if it's completely obvoius and clear, but anyway:

Dumbledore never let Snape teaching DADA (till HBP), ostensiblely because he was afraid of him falling back to the dark arts ... But don't you think that it was because, as he knew the job was cursed, he knew the year that Severus Snape taught DADA, he will leave in a weird, even fateful, way?

Ok, in my opinion, it's because of that. And, yes, maybe my question was too obvious.

Oh, and Clara, will you let us know when you're updating the WAW site? I hope we'll see new things soon!

Was Harry, in part, a replacement for Ariana? And if so, does that mean that some of Dumbledore's motivation to help Harry comes from a selfish source?

I wouldn't really say that Harry was in whole a total replacement for Ariana. I do however think that Dumbledore might have seen him somewhat like a younger sibling in need of help, guidance and protection. I don't however believe that he would help Harry for selfish reasons. I will explain: Dumbledore chose to help Harry more as an attempted correction of his previous mistakes. He did not want 'history to repeat itself', mostly, I think that Dumbledore tried to readily place all of the answers to Harry's quest(ions) within easy reach.

Did Dumbledore tell Snape that instead of dying of the curse, he would rather Snape kill him BEFORE or AFTER snape made the unbreakable vow to Narcissa that he would kill Dumbledore if Draco failed?

You know, I don't really know for sure, I think that basically: all Dumbledore wanted was to get his peace, and he wanted Snape to help him get it. He did not want Severus to let Draco do the job because he didn't want the boy to be corrupted by Voldemort at such a young age. Besides, knowing that he was going to die, Dumbledore set Snape with the mission to kill him, regardless of other obstacles.

~Veritaserum14~

Dumbledore never let Snape teaching DADA (till HBP), ostensiblely because he was afraid of him falling back to the dark arts ... But don't you think that it was because, as he knew the job was cursed, he knew the year that Severus Snape taught DADA, he will leave in a weird, even fateful, way?

Very interesting point you make DeSs, I think you're right; DD knew of the curse that Voldy had placed on the job and he wanted to keep Snape by his side for as long as he could possibly hold him. It seems like he somehow knew about everything that would soon come; as if he foresaw that Voldy would want Severus to re-join with him, and also to use him in the re-conquest of Hogwarts. Very good points, everyone.

Was Harry, in part, a replacement for Ariana? And if so, does that mean that some of Dumbledore's motivation to help Harry comes from a selfish source?

I see your point here, about Dumbeldore seeing Harry as somebody who needed help, much like Ariana did, and gave him all of the help and support that he could. However... I just have this feeling that there was some 'selfish' source.. I know it seems and awful thing to say, and i would never say that Dumbledore was concious of the source, but I believe that because of the tremendous amounts of guilt that he carried around, he must have seen Harry as somebody who could take some of the pain away, lessen the guilt. I have to keep reinforcing the fact that it was never concious... but I just don't believe he could have felt so close to Harry, and having such a strong need to help him without that guilt playing some part, even if it wasnt the main motivational force.
Obviously i dont want to downplay his motivation... as Amanda said, he saw that there was an evil that needed fighting, and the good person, and humanity, in him was prepared to do whatever he had to to help.
Anyway, the point that Im trying to make is that you Dumbledore, who never forgave himself, certainly couldn't leave his past mistakes out of him present and future decisions.

DeSs- About the site, I'd love to update as often as possible, but I can only add new contributions when I getnew contributions.. I will pm any updates to as many people as possible. Ohh dont forget, if you contribute you get access to the VIP area.. which believe me is nothing special... but to be honest its nice just having the password

Ill answer the question on Severus and the DADA position next time.


Ohh i just had a thought on the mirror of erised- I liked the idea that he actually did see socks.. and maybe seeing a pair of socks symbolises to him complete simpliciity, the fact that he could see himself wanting nothing but socks.. It would be like what he said to harry all those years ago- the happiest man in the world would see himself exactly as he was. I think what Dumbledore wanted most, was to want nothing but those socks.


Clara}~

Actually, that is a very good point, perhaps he did feel a little guilty about the whole thing. Maybe the help he gave Harry was his subconscious effort to correct some of his past mistakes, as you said, "to take some of the guilt away", I guess we'll really never know.

That is a very interesting way of looking at it; I did think that perhaps the socks held some kind of symbolism such that he may not even have been lying to Harry about what he saw. I never thought of them as the oh so simple thought that they represented simply 'simplicity'. Perhaps, all Dumbledore wanted, as you said, was to be so happy that all he really wanted was "a pair of warm wool socks".

As to the site, it's pretty cool, how can I make a contribution? (sorry if this is a bad question)

~Veritaserum14~

Hello!!!! May I join?? I feel that if I'm in a Snape fan club I should be in a Dumbledore one too. Sooo... Like I said I was wondering if I would be permitted to join your fan club!!

Lily

Well to our new poster I believe that if Clara was here she would welcome you with open arms. Of course you may join just as long as you are a poster. I mean everyone has an opinion and they're very respected here. So hello everyone, I am back from vacation and I see questions flying everyone haha.

Was Harry, in part, a replacement for Ariana? And if so, does that mean that some of Dumbledore's motivation to help Harry comes from a selfish source?

Harry wasn't really a replacement for Ariana. I mean maybe it's possible that he was as young and knew as little as his sister did. But think about it Dumbledore can never replace his sister. He knows that it's better to not bring up the things from the past. Focus on survivng the present to live in the future. And to remind himself everyday Ariana by seeing it in Harry is not good. Knowing now the relationship he had with her and knowing what happened, was very brutal. NOW even if he did see Ariana in him I don't think it's for selfish reasons. I mean answer me this, what would be so seflish about it? But now that is my opinion but I too must agree with what some have written. He may have seen Harry like Ariana in the sense that they both needed help and he feels like though he didn't do it right the first time, it was like a second chance with Harry. Now that's the selfish part that comes in. By doing so, it was like as if it's possible that he was cleaning his hands in the sense that he helped Harry now MAYBE he doesn't have to feel as guilty about Ariana as he may have felt. But then again this is Dumbledore that we are talking about and I know that he has a conscience and he may not like it, if that's how he saw things.

Now unfortunely last question to answer of the night since I don't have much time :/

Did DD ever fall in love; and if he did who do you guys think would have been his one true love?

Well like many that have already pointed out yes Dumbledore is gay and he was in love with Grindelwald. Odd yes but nothing from the unusual.

Now this question brought up another question that I have been randomly thinking for sometime.

When JKR announced Dumbledore's sexuality, where were you and what were some of your reactions? Now knowing that he's gay does your thoughts on him changed? Does he seem less of a man or more? Or it didn't make a difference? Explain any and every thought you felt towards this suprising news, was it even suprising?


Well be back later everyone to answer more questions hope to read more answers & hope to be back soon



Nickers<3

I'm here and I do welcome with open arms, as always!

Welcome back Nicky, hope you had a good holiday!

As for your question-
When JKR announced Dumbledore's sexuality, where were you and what were some of your reactions? Now knowing that he's gay does your thoughts on him changed? Does he seem less of a man or more? Or it didn't make a difference? Explain any and every thought you felt towards this suprising news, was it even suprising?
We had a very long discussion about this after the information was released, as you can imagine, and we definitely had a very wide range of thoughts on the subject, which is of course, wonderful! Since we have so many new members since then, I think we can go over it again, I'd love to hear some new viewpoints! Remember though, it can be a touchy subject with some members (Including me, as you'll see in a minute) so whilst I love a bit of healthy debate, lets keep it healthy!

Well.. my reaction... I said no, and refused to believe it. I still do. Personally I truely feel that he isnt gay and is exactly the same as he was when I put down the last book. When Jk finished the series she finally relinquished the last of her control over it to us, the avid readers and dedicated fans. She's finished, and whilst I appreciate the fact that she has created an amazing series, and hold her in the highest esteem, I believe that the books, and the characters are no longer hers. Therefore, if she 'announces' information like this about characters I will obstinately refuse to accept it. Call me stubborn if you wish, but the characters and stories will only continue to progress in our minds.. they are ours.
If it was something with evidence, that had been sugested throughout the series but never actually said outright, or if it was something completely out of the blue but which added to the story, I may be more willing to accept it.
As it is, I believe that this was just something done perhaps for publicity, perhaps to satisfy 'political correctness' Whatever it was, in my mind at least, its unture. And if we're following my theory above, in my mind, and yours, is the only place that these characters truely exist anymore.

I know that's quite a.. well... extreme view, and I don't mean to offend anybody. Its not the idea that he is gay that offends me, merely the manner- the callousness- with which this 'information' was thrown at us.

I'd like to hear some of the newer members' thoughts on this, but whilst I'm here i have a question (for after this discussion or parallel to it.. whichever you wish)-
What do you think is the Origin, or Source of Dumbledore's serenity. That is, his calm, serene and controlled exterior in most situations, as well as some of his more personal serenity (though we know he was never peaceful!)
Was it confidence in his wisdom or knowledge, or experiences, or just the person he is... what do you think?

Oh and one last thing... Everything seems to be slowing down again... please dont tell me my newfound confidence in you all (and myself!!) was misplaced?? *OTT...*

Clara}~

erm... Hello, I'm back to post something, I hate it when I go out of posting mode. I just have been motivated to think something clever to post lately or a well reasoned response. Though i'm going to give it a go.

And by the way Hi to all new members that came during my long absence.

When JKR announced Dumbledore's sexuality, where were you and what were some of your reactions? Now knowing that he's gay does your thoughts on him changed? Does he seem less of a man or more? Or it didn't make a difference? Explain any and every thought you felt towards this suprising news, was it even suprising?

Well I was sitting in the car while my mum was driving and the radio was on and they annouced it but only quickly. To be honest I didn't beleive it, I generally thought it was the radio station mucking about. Yet when I got to my cousions they told me and it hit me that it was true.
I wasn't sure at first, it didn't seem right because there where no hints to it in the books, now though i've quite gotten over it and think its rather funny. Not in a nasty way but in a "Oh I didn't see that coming" way.
I know why J.K released the information apparently she always saw Dumbledore as gay and when someone in America asked her the question of his sexuality she answered it.
I still don't think it really fitted as such but in no way do I think it effects the books because Dumbledore is J.K character and she has her right to see him the way she does.
It was just rather unexpected.
I've read DH again and I have noticed one or two lines that might have hinted at it. Yet still it might have at first but it doesn't rock my view on Dumbledore.

When JKR announced Dumbledore's sexuality, where were you and what were some of your reactions? Now knowing that he's gay does your thoughts on him changed? Does he seem less of a man or more? Or it didn't make a difference? Explain any and every thought you felt towards this suprising news, was it even suprising?


I was playing basketball with a friend of mine, who isn't a HP fan and knows I love HP. So after a little bit he told me that he heard DD was gay, and that JKR just told everyone about it. At first I didn't believe him, I thought he was just trying to make me get on his case about HP or something. So later that evening I went to the computer and checked it out...sure enough I found that DD had been pronounced gay.

However, it doesn't change my thoughts one bit. Nothing that he did involved sexuality and the biggest emotional theme in the book was love. And love is present in gay and straight people...so the news didn't change my views at all.

Less of a man...no...a man is characterized and established by his actions not his thoughts and certainly not his sexual preference.

To be honest, it wasn't even a concern. I've never considered DD's sexuality or love life whatsoever. In fact...when the enws came out, it allowed me to look at the series through this different lense. So the news was welcomed in that sense.

Hey, is it ok if I join in?

When JKR announced Dumbledore's sexuality, where were you and what were some of your reactions? Now knowing that he's gay does your thoughts on him changed? Does he seem less of a man or more? Or it didn't make a difference? Explain any and every thought you felt towards this suprising news, was it even suprising?

I don't know exactly when she announced it. I just checked my e-mail one day, and a friend had sent me this news clipping about it. I read it and was kind of thinking... Ok, so what?

Maybe growing up with some of my parents being gay (and I knowing that) influenced my feelings. Gay people are still people, so I didn't really care that Dumbledore happened to be one. It didn't change my opinion of him in any way. He's the most amazing man in the books, defending what's right, so why should his romantic preference make a difference to us? It never came to me before, but I wasn't particularly surprised.

Of course forsaken_wolfess once again if it was Clara, she would welcome any new member with open arms just put any link in your siggy and be an often poster and you're good to go

Now to answer my own question:

Yea some of you all make great points. I myself was walking out of Barnes and Nobles buying a book & I got in the car. As I turn on the radio they announced it saying that JKR has confirmed that Dumbledore, known for being the wise old man in Harry Potter is gay.

At first I was in complete shock. It caught me really off guard to hear that and I didn't want to believe it. I thought that they were kidding just saying that, but it was true when I saw it in the newspaper the next day. Then I really thought to myself and I was thinking how I didn't see any hints pointing towards that; But then I thought to myself Ehh who cares.

It ceartainly didn't change my thoughts about him. He is still the same guy that I always that he was ever since I have read the books. For sure I can really say that it doesn't make a difference becuase when you really think about him it hasn't even been a year since the news was released, and alot of people have already forgotten. It wasn't that big of an issue. This would probably be reminded to us when the day it was said comes again and marks a year.

I thought that JKR shouldn't have said that because it really is sort of a pointless news. I don't care but what was she expecting from saying that. Maybe nothing but it's one of those things that it doesn't matter and is something that is more meant to be in an encyclopedia and not announced publicly either. I don't know it just really bothered me when my friends tries to use that peice of news as a way to get me mad. It didn't but the attempt was annoying

Hey Dan, good to see you again!!

Welcome forsaken_wolfess (and thank you Nicky )

Interesting points... I guess all of you agree that you don't see Dumbledore any differently... but does anybody agree with my views on the characters not being JK's anymore?
I know its going slightly off the topic of Dumbledore (and just for information nothing revealed about him could change the man we know today in my mind... even if I need time to adjust) but does anybody... disagree?
Many people, including me, feel that there is no evidence to suggest this in the books- the love between Dumbledore and Grindlewald was the love betweeen friends as close as brothers, and that information with no evidence can't be accepted at face value?
I have a problem accepting information released that isnt in, or doesnt have strong evidence in, the books. JK could say what ever she wanted now- that hermione was in fact Harry's cousin, that Ginny was in love with Neville, that Snape had been acting under the imperious curse when he told Dumbledore that he had informed Voldemort of the prophecy. We know none of it's true... but if JK were to 'confirm' it... how much would we believe? Would we all just nod and say, ok.. i accept that, and it doesn't change my views on this particular character? Or would we say, hang on- we appreciate the masterpiece you've given us, but you can't do that anymore, because you just can't proove it?

I know... massively off Dumbledore topic-ness... but I'd still like to hear your thoughts

Also, anybody got any thoughts on the question I posed to you in my last post-
What do you think is the Origin, or Source of Dumbledore's serenity. That is, his calm, serene and controlled exterior in most situations, as well as some of his more personal serenity (though we know he was never peaceful!)
Was it confidence in his wisdom or knowledge, or experiences, or just the person he is... what do you think?

I know i said it can wait until after the present discussion... but what can I say, Im an impatient woman

Glad to see people back and posting after so long!!!


Clara}~

Actually Clara you make a point now.



I'm going to have to agree with you there. I would have to say to hold on. Because it's true. When she first staretd writing these books, they were her characters becuase she knew and loved them more than we did, seeing that we were just new to this. But many years of reading the books, watching movies, going more in depth about these characters, they have become our characters as much as they were hers. For some these characters became a little part of us. So I agree when you say that in a way these characters that for some are people now, aren't really no longer JKR's as much as they use to be in the sense that we grew up with them as they grew.

I don't know about proving but what I understood from that is, it's not that JKR can't prove it, we just have become so attached to them that we feel as if we know them better than they know themselves, or better than JKR. I'm not trying to say that she doesn't know who she has created we just have focused alot on these characters that they mean more to use than just some thought or idea.

What do you think is the Origin, or Source of Dumbledore's serenity. That is, his calm, serene and controlled exterior in most situations, as well as some of his more personal serenity (though we know he was never peaceful!)
Was it confidence in his wisdom or knowledge, or experiences, or just the person he is... what do you think?

I really strongly believe that it has to do with experiences because one isn't born with the answers as I always say. And knowing from three different point of views and DD himself, we all have an idea how DD was in his youth. He wasn't always that calm, smart, wise, chill DD that he is now. He probably learned on his own by watching others, seeing that patience is the key to success. Pretty much he wasn't always serene and in controlled, it took many years of experiences for him to have gotten where he was. That's what I say(:

Any other thoughts?



Nickers<3

Well, as for the whole Dumbledore/Grindlewald thing, we never saw enough of there friendship to know anything. We just got bits and pieces of the story from different people. I'll believe that kind of thing, the sort of thing where JK is the evidence. JK announced it as an answer to a fan's question, not just a 'head's up, everyone!' Which makes me think of it as not something just for publicity.

But all the other stuff is stupid. There's evidence in the books that say otherwise, and I'm trusting the original material before the news and the internet and all of that good stuff. Those kinds of things will do anything for a story, and secrets about a much-loved book could be a big story.

What do you think is the Origin, or Source of Dumbledore's serenity. That is, his calm, serene and controlled exterior in most situations, as well as some of his more personal serenity?


This is interesting. I think that Dumbledore got that sense of calm from years of practice. He knew what anger and evil had brought to his family, and he was done with that. He would teach young wizards and help them, but he wouldn't go to the ministry, a place where arguments and bad feelings are a must. He wanted to be a rock of good sense to the world he had, for a short time, helped bring chaos too. But that's just me speculating.

When JKR announced Dumbledore's sexuality, where were you and what were some of your reactions? Now knowing that he's gay does your thoughts on him changed? Does he seem less of a man or more? Or it didn't make a difference? Explain any and every thought you felt towards this suprising news, was it even suprising?


I don't remember where I was or what I was doing...but when I heard that our beloved DD was gay..I was like "Really?" And that was about it. Reading the books and even watching the movies I had no idea! But either way..I don't care. He's the same Dumbledore to me. May he rest in peace!

What do you think is the Origin, or Source of Dumbledore's serenity. That is, his calm, serene and controlled exterior in most situations, as well as some of his more personal serenity?


I agree that it's about his experiences and whatnot.

However, I really think it has to deal with his comfortability with death and his ability to love. He has gone beyondf any other wizard in the learning of the "passion of magic." That is when feelings, souls, etc. affect magic. Also, he has learned that death is not to be feared, and basically that what should be feared most in living without love or purpose. So I think he is always so calm because he realizes that life is short and that you must love during it. DD is a great man and the most obvious reason besides all that floofy stuff above is that he has aged and is much more mature than kids and most/all adults.

~Nick

I see what you mean about it not being for publicity, as it was an answer to a fan's question.. which I didn't know initially, and was one of the things that put me immediately against the idea. I think the thing is, Jk mayhave had the thoughts in her head from the very beginnig of the series, but it just didnt come through enough in the actual writng and story for me to just accept. So, despite everything... Im going to stay with my original idea of ignoring her


Judging from your answers, I think we can all agree that most of the serenity comes from his age and experience- it was his wisdom that allowed him to be so calm, and this wisdom was gained as he experienced more things (of course, that's not to say that younger people can't experience lots of things and become wiser from them, just that he has experienced so very many more things)
I also like what Nick said about his ability to love & how he viewed life and death. I guess this is another thing that comes that comes with wisdom- you can put things in perspective, as well as see the value of love and life. In knowing that, you can put smaller things into perspective, and look on larger problems without fear.... make sense?


Ohhh right... A while ago I said about doing topic pages for the WAW site.. however I do need some things to actually put on there. The first one I'd like to do is the 'Freedom' page. I have a few bits to put on there, but I'd really appreciate it if anybody who has time does one or more of the following tasks, so I can select bits to put on there-

1. A poem/ lymeric/ riddle on Dumbledore and freedom

2. An image or icon depicting Dumbledore & specificallylinked to freedom

3. A description of where Dumbledore felt most free

If you do something it needs to be specific to freedom otherwise.. it kind of misses the point of the page!! (Plus I would be eternally gratefull!!!)

Looking forward to your ideas

Clara}~

Hey Clara.

I just sorta wrote a poem. it's free verse and has a variety of lined stanzas (mainly 2-lines). I'm not really a poet at all but I thoguht I'd give it a shot (laugh if you want I did at the thought of me writing this).

Escape

“To the well-organized mind, death is but the next great adventure.”
-Albus Dumbledore


The Phoenix flies overhead,
The dragons roar among the mountains.

I looked upon the morning sky,
And found myself looking down at my reflection in the lake.

I notice a small flicker among the face staring back at me,
And dive into the pupils of the fierce blue eyes.

I travel across the high and lows,
Over Britain in search of a small village.

This small village stands out among the rest,
Being the home to many of my kind.

I walk alone among the muggles,
And wish I could find the missing piece.

As I sit down among the graves,
I look around at all of the magical souls who have moved on.

I sit and think about those souls,
Whose fears and pains go away with the coming of Death.

And I realize that ‘To a well-organized mind,
Death is but the next great adventure.’

Freedom is the next adventure for a soul.
Not anguish, not distress, but freedom.
The ability to smell the morning air.
To breathe in the opportunities awaiting witches and wizards alike.

Oh, I hope death comes to me.
For the promise of freedom is more than I could bear to lose.
Freedom…oh yes, it has been coming to me for a long time.
Freedom.


let me know if you want to use it and if you do and want something changed or worked on...please let me know

thanks for seeing my point with DD and his whole life/death thing...i think it's somewhat plausible...

~Nick

Hi everyone,

My apologies. . .for being absent for ages. . .though I haven't post here for quite sometime I do pop in here and see what you guys have been posting, but that just it, haven't got the time to post only reading.

Clara, I received your owl, I was touched, because I know you missed me . and by the way, I'll post as soon as I finish some kind of poem about DD.

Welcome to all the new members, see yah around soon.

Hey everybody! I'm so sorry I haven't been replying in a while, so I'll be checking this more regularly...it grows fast. Lily_Potter just made me a W.A.W. picture to put in my siggy...she does make good pictures...OK sorry...

Well I'll be on here later...welcome to all new members!

good bye!

Oh my! I havent been on in ages!! I was just reading through some posts and skimming others. Clara, I completely agree with you on the fact that there is no proof on Dumbledore's sexuality and I, too, was unaccepting of it. I do not care if somebody is or is not gay but the fact is i don't see Dumbledore being gay and J.K.R's story is like art, it is in the eyes of the beholder. Since it never came out and said it i am sticking with my version that Dumbledore did not need a lover to have a happy and complete life and that is that.

What do you think is the Origin, or Source of Dumbledore's serenity. That is, his calm, serene and controlled exterior in most situations, as well as some of his more personal serenity?

Dumbledore has been through many hardships in his life and he learned that the best way to deal with it is to just stay calm. His age and experience were major causes of his calmness too as many people have said.(sorry i know its just short and to the point but i havent got much time)

Nick, nice poem!!! it didn't rhyme though just kidding! it was awesome! i wish i could write poetry as brilliant as that!

~Kate

What do you think is the Origin, or Source of Dumbledore's serenity. That is, his calm, serene and controlled exterior in most situations, as well as some of his more personal serenity?

I agree with what padfootx3 said. It was from all of his hardships in life...I know people who have had a hard life and they are some of most happy and bravest people I know. I think Dumbledore became the wise old man he became because of his past.

Hey bookworm_1918, padfootx3, and annesches- Yep, We missed you

Thanks Nick, I'm happy to use the poem as it is, unless there's any changes that you want to specifically make? But its definitely fine as it is


The art comment summarises it perfectly kate! I whole heartedly agree... I'm glad somebody else has the same views as me on this point.

Keep up with the things for the site... good work everyone!

Clara}~

What do you think is the Origin, or Source of Dumbledore's serenity. That is, his calm, serene and controlled exterior in most situations, as well as some of his more personal serenity?

I know my response is way overdue but i've been gone for a bit. I think, personally, that Dumbledore not only became this way because of practice, but because he was in so many positions of power. I would guess that having everyone asking your opinion on what to do, being such a powerful leader and wizard, he would eventually have to find a way to keep calm. he didn't exactly live the most peaceful life (what with the ministry sending him owl after owl asking for advice, and being a headmaster of Hogwarts). He probably felt calm knowing that his opinion mattered and so many people respected him, and he knew himself there was no reason to scream and shout when he got angry because he usually knew the solution to most problems (or he would just guess ). That's really all i have to say on that matter.

I have another question though, and it stems from Clara's question regarding Dumbledore's sexuality:

Do you think that Dumbedore was interested in Grindlewald's ideas about wizards overpowering muggles because he was in love with him, or because he was actually interested in it?

I know this might be hard to understand (and i hope you know what i'm talking about when i say the 'wizards overpowering mudbloods' because i'm refering to the letter Dumbledore wrote to Gallert ) i was just wondering, because even though i don't tag Dumbledore as someone who's weak enough to collapse under that kind of pressure (love), maybe that's where he got his idea that love is very powerful, because he fell in love and ended up causing major ammounts of damage to his family and his future.

Wow, i just answered a lot of my other questions i was wondering, oh well. I'd like to hear oppinions on it.

Do you think that Dumbedore was interested in Grindlewald's ideas about wizards overpowering mudbloods because he was in love with him, or because he was actually interested in it?



Hey, good question. I think that Dumbledore was introduced to the diea through Grindlewald and explored the idea because of Grindlewald. However, I think that because he was in love with Grindlewald, he was much more willing to go along with it and that love helped him convince himself that he was doing it "for the greater good."

So interested in it...maybe a little bit, but mainly because of Grindlewald's love.

Do you think that Dumbedore was interested in Grindlewald's ideas about wizards overpowering mudbloods because he was in love with him, or because he was actually interested in it?

Alright I'm going to be honest. I think that it's a little of both. Dumbledore was actually interested in the ideas because he pretty much found someone that had the same interest, thoughts and ideas as him. And for having Grindelwald obviously inputting some of his own ideas in it, it probably had Dumbeldore amazed at this person. He was like infatuated by love for him, because little by little everything he did and said seem "perfect" to him, he loved him. And so it was like he surrender to love for him. Because I have a feeling that he knew all along that Grindelwald was power hungry and Dumbledore knew what he was capable of. But that would have meant for him to leave his side and never look back and he couldn't bare it. Which is where love is very powerful comes into play. Love blinded Dumbledore from the truth of who he was and it might have been possible to avoid the extra family problems he had. It may have been possible that he wouldn't be the way he was with his brother. Less hate and his sister Ariana could've have been still alive. It's all possible. Love makes everyone do crazy things. Those are my two cents, anybody else with opinions?

Interesting question by the way(:



Nickers<3

T'was amortentia_149's question.. I don't bring up the sexuality issue, because as you may be able to tell from my last few post.. I dont think Dumbledore was gay soo...

Do you think that Dumbedore was interested in Grindlewald's ideas about wizards overpowering mudbloods because he was in love with him, or because he was actually interested in it?
At first I thouhg t it was all to do with Grindlewald leading him into things hwich he may never have considered doing before, that he introduced Dumbledore to new ideas, and then manipulated him into believing it wa sthe right thing to do.
Then I thought, hang on, this is a young boy who has so much power and potential, and although everybody knows and notices, he never has to push himself. In this case, It may not have been the actual idea of wizards overpowering muggles that Dumbledore was so interested in, more the idea of pushing himself to achieve things that he had never even attempted before.
There is also the power issue. We've been shown that DUmbledore at that age wanted power, whether it was mainly Grindlewald's influence is rather subjective, but because he wanted power and knowledge, the idea of 'supressing' a reace of inferior peoples may have seemed a very attractive way to get power and status. I think Dumbledore must have believed somehow, that the wizarding population would just accept his and Grindlewald's ideas after a while, because as a young boy, on the surface at least, he was definitely not an outcast.. and may have thought that the wozarding community would come to its senses, and see his point of view.
Nicky Potter and HJP also raised the issue of love playing a part. I believe that because Dumbledore and Grindlewald were such good friends, and Dumbledore did indeed look up to Grindlewald so much that if Grindlewald believed something was right, Dumbledore would follow without question. Maybe if he thought his idol believed that it was the right thing to do, then nobody could possibly think of opposing them.

So... there were many reasons he was interested in the idea, but I think that the least influential factor to Dumbledore was in fact that actual idea. He was less interested in that, than the things that he believed he could gain from working alongside Grindlewald.

Good question!!

Clara}~

What do you think is the Origin, or Source of Dumbledore's serenity. That is, his calm, serene and controlled exterior in most situations, as well as some of his more personal serenity (though we know he was never peaceful!)

It is my belief that Dumbledore's self-peace, so to speak, comes from his sense of himself: his personality and his tastes. To better explain myself, Dumbledore has never exactly been a very "at peace" kind of man; yet he was always handling situations very very very...calmly. How could such a restless man be so 'peaceful'? Well, I think it really stems from his organizational and very guarded mind. He has always been one to keep things to himself; he never boasted about his achievements or told anyone about his personal feelings or his past. Dumbledore's obscure nature could be a very probable cause for his serenity and calm manner.

~Veritaserum14~

That too. I mean we all know that he never wore his heart on his sleeve in the sense that he was out looking for pittiness. The only time he did wear it on his sleeve was to show he loves all no matter what. He balanced out how to be. He was of course never at peace but of course as the wise man that he was and will always will be he kept it to himself because he knew that no one else needs to suffer from his pain. Everyone has there own issues and no ones problem is bigger than the other(: of course I always sticked by the idea that it came from experince. He observed and watch other and learned that it's better to be in control than to lose since I'm sure he has seen what happens to those that lost it. Experince people that's what it is

Ohh Nicky's post made me think of a question...

Were there any points throughout the series that you think Dumbledore was really close to 'losing it' [control], but managed to hold back and keep a calm face?

I can think of a few scenes in which he did lose control slightly, but which are the times when he managed to hold back, but you still got the sense that something was about to blow.. perhaps you got a feeling of aprehension or tension?

Woo 3 posts in one night... I am on a role!!

Clara}~

Hahaha. Right on Clara

Were there any points throughout the series that you think Dumbledore was really close to 'losing it' [control], but managed to hold back and keep a calm face?

Glad to inspire the question. But on to answering. I think that he almost lost it in the first when the troll was released and the entire Great Hall lost it completely. I mean it's nothing big but by looking at him you would never think that would yell the way he did. And the funny thing about it is after he yelled he just calmly says to the prefects to escort the students back to the common room. Then there was the fourth when he was angry that Harry's name came out of the Goblet of Fire. He tried to keep his anger under control as much. Then well I'm not sure if anyone agree's with me in the fifth when he fought with Voldemort. Was he angry or...? I'm not sure :/

Hmm, very good questions...

Were there any points throughout the series that you think Dumbledore was really close to 'losing it' [control], but managed to hold back and keep a calm face?

I think one of those times would have been when 'Mad-Eye' took harry away from the maze in Goblet Of Fire. When Dumbledore burst through the door to stun him, he did seem close to losing his peace. That's just what i believe, though.

Do you think that Dumbedore was interested in Grindlewald's ideas about wizards overpowering mudbloods because he was in love with him, or because he was actually interested in it?

I think there was a bit of both in there. Yes, Dumbledore probably liked the idea in theory, but he wasn't ready to see it in practice. He saw the ideas get more and more drastic, from power for their own good to murder, and that wasn't what he had in mind. I think he cared too much about Grindlewald to shoot him down; it's hard to tell a close friend, loved one, or family member that you disagree with them.

Were there any points throughout the series that you think Dumbledore was really close to 'losing it' [control], but managed to hold back and keep a calm face?

Like I think someone else said, he very nearly did loose that calm mask several times in the GoF. He did most notably at the end of the book, where he blasts the door of moody's door open. I seem to remember his face being described as a 'mask of cold fury'. You normally only see Dumbledore's face as calm or happy, so this is a huge step. And then, right afterwards, He yells at the minister of magic. He seemed a little touchy that night, don't you think?

He also lost that mask in the HBP, but I think that time it was in a good way.

Dumbledore starts tearing up when Harry so bluntly declares his loyalty to him. He might have been crying for the love he felt for Harry. In fact, he probably was. But could he also have been crying because he knew Harry trusted him so much, and he couldn't bring himself to trust Harry with the whole picture, even then?

EXCELLENT points forsaken_wolfess (: I especially agree with you when you wrote about the GOF near the ending when he shoots down the door with a mask of cold fury. That was another part where he almost lost control as well and I'm sure that deep down he was trying to hold back more anger because a man like that if he were to release all hte anger he had inside he himself was like a nuclear bomb and Voldemort defientely had something to be afraid of and in the case of losing control emotionally that scene in HBP was good too. Deep down he felt such a happy warmth that he hadn't felt in a long time so that meant alot too.

Were there any points throughout the series that you think Dumbledore was really close to 'losing it' [control], but managed to hold back and keep a calm face?


I think that Dumbledore was very mad in GoF when Moody took Harry away from the maze and questioned him in his office, as many people have stated above.

I also think that when Harry didn't get the information from Slughorn about Horcruxes. I think Dumbledore was more mad than what appeared in the text. He was very short with Harry for the first time in the whole series, that had nothing to do with Harry interrupting or barging in on something. Nope, this was all because Harry failed at something and I think that he got a little tempered with Harry (but hid most of it).

Hmm...oh yeah!!! Probably the most mad I can remember Dumbledore getting against someone other than Death Eaters is Professor Umbridge when she manhandles Marietta in Dumbledore's office. If you remember...he stands up and is seconds away from hexing her right in front of the minister...I'd say he was pretty mad right there.

Also, I think he may have been a little mad with himself at the end of OotP when he teared up as Harry left, saying that he was sorry he didn't make Harry prefect. I think he may have felt a little regret right there.

Besides that...nothing to huge jumps out at me for that question.

Another question that I had was...

If Dumbledore had taken up the position of Minister, what would he have done with the power? Would he abuse it like he said he would? Or would he have exercised control?

Personally, although I truly wish that he would exercise control. I do believe he would have abused some of his power. Not all of it but some of it. I wish I could say that the power struggle within him disappeared with later age. but unfortunately it didn't completely...proof of that would be James cloak and the ring when he tried it on.

What do you all think?

~Nick~
hjp


P.S. my first fanfic just added...link in my siggy...chapter 2 coming withing the next day or so...let me know what you think if you read it...

Well, I'd like to join this thread!

Were there any points throughout the series that you think Dumbledore was really close to 'losing it' [control], but managed to hold back and keep a calm face?

I think that during the end of the fifth book, Dumbledore was really trying to keep calm (when Harry was throwing his stuff and whatnot). That is something I'd do. Keep calm and not say anything about it, no matter how much it bothered me. I also think that in the fourth book, when Harry's name came out of the Goblet of Fire, he was this close *places two fingers about a milimeter apart* from losing control. Even in the movie, you could tell he was angry. Not the cold disapproval like usual, but flat out yelling. That part even threw me back a few steps! I always thought that Dumbledore was very self-controlled, but I guess everyone has their time for tempers...

Hope that was a good submission!

Hello there sadie_urlady523 Well like I always tell the newbies since Clara the founder of this amazing thread couldn't say this herself I'm sure she would welcome you happily. She is always up for new members(: So I welcome you to the Wise and Wonderful.

And yes that contribution that you made was sufficient

Now I agree with you when you say the part that he almost lost his temper in the fourth. I think that is where I dropped my jaw in amazed. I even shivered a bit. I wasn't use to seeing him in that state. Who knew that our Dumbledore held so much anger within. But like I said if he were to explode from so much anger and emotion all around I think that the world better prepare itself for a nuclear bomb

Oh i hated that part in the 4th movie!! i knew DD was angry but he didnt like attack harry in the book!! after i saw that the 4th movie has been my least favorite just because they didnt portray DD as always being calm... like in the book at that part - yeahh he was about to lose it but he didnt!! grrrr that part makes me sooo angryy at the screen right or whatever its called

Do you think that Dumbedore was interested in Grindlewald's ideas about wizards overpowering mudbloods because he was in love with him, or because he was actually interested in it?

I think the idea of being powerful made Dumbledore interested in overpowering muggles. He always said that his weakness was power. Which is why he wanted to stay as the Head of Hogwarts and not the minister of magic. Grindewald may have had some influence on Dumbledore but I don't think that DD was so head over heels in love with him that he would go along with anything. DD was very intelligent and could think for himself...and at that young age all he thought of was power.


Were there any points throughout the series that you think Dumbledore was really close to 'losing it' [control], but managed to hold back and keep a calm face?

Oh absolutely! There were a few times in GOF, like when Harry's name popped out of the Goblet...that was a bit scary. I never thought I'd see DD act like that. At the hearing in OOTP. I could tell that DD was really trying to hold back his anger towards fudge. In POS when the dementors went after Harry. And I think there was once or twice in HBP. I'd have to go back and read it again for specifics.

Hello to all. I was so happy when I logged on that there were three pages of posts that I had to read through. It has been such a long time since the thread has moved like this and it is wonderful!

A warm welcome to all of the new members. Keep posting as Clara likes to award sherbert lemons from time to time.*yum*




Speaking in regards to the 'Dumbledore is gay' announcement, I agree that it was sort of pointless. I am of the opinion that she announced this merely to satisfy the masses. What I mean by that is whether or not she intended for DD to be gay in the series, she didn't write it into the series and therefore didn't have one gay character in the entire book series. I think there was some pressure for her to be politically correct and thus she made the announcement. This ties in with my comment on DD's true love, which we have discussed previously. Dumbledore and Grindelwald's love affair storyline seems a bit forced to me. I don't see evidence in any of the books that suggest that they were in love or even if the love was a one way thing on DD's behalf. I think that Albus was attracted to Grindelwald because of his intellect and ideas for power, dominance and greatness. I need to remind myself that when Grindelwald came to live nextdoor to the Dumbledore's, Albus was caring for his sister and missing out on his travels. He was probably feeling disappointed and resentful and craving some intelligent stimulation and was pleasantly surprised when Grindelwald fit the bill.




First of all, I think as someone who likes to write all manner of stories, I will have to disagree that once the final book came out and there was no mention of DD being gay, that JKR doesn't really own her characters. She will always have the rights to her creation and can choose to edit or elaborate on them in future prints or spin-off stories. We as fans can choose to believe what she says or does or we can choose to believe pre announcement.

As for the question, I think that Dumbledore's origin of serenity and calm come from the incident with his sister. I am one of the few who believe the worst happened that day and it was indeed Dumbledore's wand and spell that hit his sister and killed her. I think from that moment on, Albus worked really hard to control his emotions. I don't know if he goes to a happy place to find that sense of serenity but I think in the back of his mind always is the tragedy that took his sister's life and his lack of control that did it. I think through out the years Dumbledore carried this experience with him and used it to shape his character as calm and logical, so as he got older and wiser in his life experiences, he is the Albus Dumbledore we know and love today.





I think I am going to disagree with this particular part. I don't think Albus was close to losing control at all here. I think he saw Harry, who had just lost Sirius and was stricken with sadness and he knew Harry had all this pent up anger and resentment the entire year with feeling alone and no one telling him anything and he just sat there and let him destroy his office. I do believe he even commented that he had too many posessions anyway, as Harry was breaking them.
I kind of think that everytime Dumbledore had to deal with Cornelius Fudge in Book 5, he was struggling for control. I mean here was a man who simply refused to believe the Dark Lord was back and did everything he could to discredit DD and Harry. Everytime DD had to implore Fudge to see reason on this subject I got the feeling like he was so exasperated with the Minister. I imagine him taking a deep breath and controling his emotions in those situations rather then just jinx him into oblivion like he could have.

Whew, that was a long post. I liked that poem that came in recently. Is anyone else going to give the Dumbledore Freedom topic a whirl?

I marvel at how SUPER FAST this thread grows...long post, lots of posts...I need to catch up.

I think the movie might make the parts where Dumbledore seems to be losing control a little bit stronger than they are in the book. Dumbledore, though, when usually angry, didn't have to yell, he just had to talk in that disappointed voice of his. In one of the books, Harry had wished (when Dumbledore was disapponted in him) that Dumbledore would have just yelled, because the disappointment in his voice made Harry so gulty. All the moments that you guys mentioned I agreed with. The end of GOF, the hearing in OOTP, all of those moments.

hehe bookworm_1918, yes, it's moving super fast now, but you just missed our slow months... I was seriously worried about the futrue of the thread (unnescesarily of course, as Amanda and others kept us alive..)

Amanda- I must have said this to you before.. but once more can't hurt; yes, this iss exactly what I mean on the Dumbledore 'gay' issue. Especially about their supposed love- the idea is too forced, to sudden and unexpected. If Dumbledore's love had been deep (or there at all) we would have seen evidence of it.. and frankly.. we didn't.

However... I know what you mean, about JK having rights to her creations- I too write a lot and see my ideas as my own things. nevertheless, I feel that she has her creations, people that she has formed, but now that her story with them is over- and she herself has said she won't write any more harry potter, the idea of her changing characters so dramatically seems.. wrong. Its as though.. when she was writing the series she had control of where our thoughts were going. She would give us the plot and that would be that. Now that she's no longer giving us that, to me at least, she has less authority of those characters. as they are, they are hers, but any developments post DH to those characters will take place in our own minds- so i think i mean more that they are ours adwell, so we can chose what to believe, where as before they were exclusively hers on the development side of things.
And yes... Im aware that was very badly worded and explained... but im tired.. again

For my earlier question~
Were there any points throughout the series that you think Dumbledore was really close to 'losing it' [control], but managed to hold back and keep a calm face?
I agree that when Harry was breaking Dumbledore's things he wasn't on the edge.. He could expect no less of a response to such a horrifying event. The times when he was really on the edge were the times when people consistently prevented him from helping the world in the fight against Voldemort. I was having the same thoughts, about the times when Dumbledore is dealing with Cornelius Fudge- he managed to hold back because he knew he may cause more problems than he was solving- and in general he is a very diplomatic person, but there was definitely tension in these scenes.
I think when Dumbledore was told he would have to go to Azkaban in OotP, he was about to lose it. He may have been expecting it for a while, but it must have been infuriating to know that so many people were trying to stop him- the very people that he was trying to save. He kept his cool, and made a wonderful Dumbledore-ish exit, but if he hadn't of had a job to do, he would've just let his emotions go.


padfootx3, I think this was one of the first discussions we ever had on the first WAW thread. We we're discussing the differences between Gambon and Harris, and most of us agreed that Harris probably would have done that quite differently. I too don't like that scene, because Dumbledore's amazing ability to remain calm is one of the things that I love so much about him- in general, I think Gambon is a lot less calm than Dumbledore... Harris was the perfect DD, for me


Oooo that reminds me, I must update the member list on my profile, hand out some scrummy sherbet lemons (the past records of which i accidently deleted... ) and add the member list to the site. Oh by the way, I'll try and add everybody onto the list, if your name seems to be on holiday from the list... just let me know! Of course, if somebody posts once and never returns.. I wont bother adding them.
Oh, Im also re-starting Dumbledore-ette of the month. I stopped for 3 months so we could get in some new members.. and I think we have sufficient members now! I will award one for July, and then every month henceforth. For new members who don't know, I judge the award on who has the most sherbet lemons (which are basically points, and which will go back to zero at the beginning of each months- we have to eat them of course... These are awarded for good, regular posts, especially outstanding posts, and contributions etc) Most club threads seem to have them now {though I am proud to say we were the first to base the award on points.. I think... )

Oh.. and Amanda reminded everybody about the freedom topic. Now you see.. she can be a lot more polite than me. so... Contribute something to the flipping topic or I may have to shout at somebody! thanks!

Ok I've talked rubbish for a sufficient length of time, ttfn!

Clara}~