In the rumors section on the JKR website she clears up the rumor that says "The Order of the Pheonix communicates using chocolate frog cards" but she also leaves a clue as to how they do communicate...

In th third book when Harry was interogated by Snape & snape found the Mauraders map Snape contacted lupin through the fire.

Ooh, someone mentioned this today...I wish I could remember where I'd read it......

Anywho, I think they communicate by using their Patronuses. Apparently Dumbledore used his Phoenix to send for Hagrid in the GoF. I wish I could take credit for noticing that, but someone far sharper than me mentioned it elsewhere on the forum today...profuse apologies to whoever it was....

Just to keep with my theme for the month -- how about using House Elves? They seem to be able to apparate within the grounds at Hogwarts.

taks - first off, let me say how much I love your little dancing tiger...**tee hee** He's so cute...I've been meaning to tell you for a while!

Anywho, very good points you made there....I'm not saying that Patronuses are the way that they communicate - I'm just repeating what someone else said that made a lot of sense to me in the light of what JKR had said. However, all your points are very valid and make perfect logical sense. I guess though that everyone, when they're enrolled in the order could register their Patronuses and there aren't that many of them so it wouldn't be that confusing about who was trying to talk to whom, I guess....

I'm not sure whether or not they would wear out....Harry's didn't seem to. The stag in PoA stayed until it had done all it needed to, as it did in OotP. There's nothing to say that they couldn't last for longer than that if required.

About other people noticing...heh heh....very valid point. You'd certainly think so, wouldn't you? I don't know about that. The only explanation I can think of is that Muggles can't see them....did Dudley report seeing a light or something? I dunno...that seems a pretty lame explanation. Good point though....maybe someone else can think about that one...

Yes, it would be a little odd, but it is called the 'Order of the Phoenix'. The light side have to have a signal...like Batman has his bat signal, you know? The DE's have their Dark Mark too.....if that's the way the Order communicated before, there's nothing to say they can't use that method again.

As for communication, we don't really know that much about Patronuses. Perhaps merely their presence indicates that the person who conjured it is in need of help or whatever and the commonly understood thing is that if a Patronus is seen, then the Order member must apparate immediately to Headquarters for an explanation of what's wrong. Or maybe they can talk...I dunno...

Let's not all assume that the silvery substance coming from Dumbledore's wand was a Patronus charm, if we jump on that too hard, we'll take our focus away from other possibilities.

From the description in the book, it certainly does sound like a Patronus, but like the Death Eater sign (which is a whole other spell), it could just be a signal created by them. Does that make sense?

I don't know why I didn't reply here before. The Order can't use patronuses because they are created by wand. JKR said that they can do this without a wand. What I think is that they use Fawkes. Didn't Fawkes warn Dumbledore and Co. right after Harry explained his vision about Mr. Weasley that Umbridge was coming?

Did she say without a wand? I thought it was with only a wand... Unfornatly her site isn't working for me at the moment so I don't have the quote.

I think the Fawkes theory is pretty good--it does make sense. I have also heard a theory somewhere (can't remember where though...) that the Order uses mirrors like the one Sirius gave Harry in OotP. They are simple to use (it only takes calling out a name) and it looks innocent to others.

taks you remembered right about the wand thing... JK said that their communication required

its definently fawkes because the quote says something about one person doing it all? and didn't dumbledore send fawkes to people and he dropped the gold feather?

Or maybe it is just something with a wand and isn't really that mystifying...maybe we haven't seen it yet

JK says they only need a wand, cause it wouldn´t be a good way of communicating if you had to carry sometrhing with you, because you can forget it somewhere. She also said we see this way of communicating before we hear about the Order´s existence. I have been trying really hard to remember, and I have tried to check the books but I haven´t found anything. The only one I haven´t been able to check is PoA(my cousin has it now ), so maybe it´s there.

i just reread POA and i didn't find anything that would clue me in to how the order would communicate... but then again, i wasn't looking specifically for that. so maybe i missed something (i reread it to compare it to the movie and see what they changed and left out).
when did dumbledore send fawkes for help in GOF? sorry, i've read it, i just forget.

I´m racking my brains here trying to remember, but I can´t come up with the moment when Dumbledire sends fawkes to help iun GoF.Can somebody tell us both when that is??????????

hmm at the moment the only thing that I can think of is that sliver vapor that came out of Dumbledore's wand in GoF. It is the only one that makes sense so far but I still do not believe that the vapor is a Patronus, I think that it is some other charm.

I don’t think the real Fawkes is used to send any kind of messages until book 5 (after we know the Order exists). In fact I think we only see Fawkes twice in Goblet, both times in DD's office- after Harry has his ‘spell’ in Divination and after the incident in the graveyard.

What is being talked about above is when Harry and DD find Krum stunned just outside the forest in the chapter The Madness of Mr. Crouch.

Atlas81, thank you for the quote.

DD's patronus is a phoenix. JKR confirmed that in Edinburgh Book Festival last year.

I think it could be some other charm than the Patronus as well. Although, I think a powerful wizard like DD do not have to say the spell out aloud in order to make it work.

I know that movie is not canon (but still JKR approves it, didn't she?) but there're loads of times where Snape or DD or even Hagrid uses magic without having to chant it out aloud. So, even though he didn't exactly say 'Expecto Patronum', there is still a possibility that it is.

hey guys-
i have a book called "a muggle's guide to the wizarding world" and there's a list of spells in it, and i found this last night when i was reading:

message dart: conjures a silvery dart from the tip of a wand that flies through the air like a small, ghostly bird until it finds its target. the dart notifies the person it locates that he or she is needed by the sender.

so that's what dumbledore must have done in GOF. i'm not sure, though, how the person receiving the dart knows who sent it.

Yep. That makes complete sense.

It said that in the book? Really? Wow... that's like settle the whole mystery of it, didn't it?

Message Dart, eh? The explanation seems to fit exactly like what DD had done....

One question though, did that book got any approval from JKR herself? If it did, then I'll take it as the 100% answer but if it didn't... hmm... think I'm gonna wait till JKR said it herself...

it's unauthorized... so yeah, it could be wrong..

I would just want to say that. Why can't they use owls with secret codes..or something.

I've had a rethink on this and while I still think they use a phoenix, I'm thinking less patronus and more Fawkes now actually. Doesn't Dumbledore send messages to people with phoenix feathers? And he uses Fawkes to apparate at one point in OotP, doesn't he? Memory is a little hazy on that one, but I'm fairly sure that something like that happens when the Ministry come to arrest him.

Maybe that's another reason why it's called the Order of the Phoenix? **shrugs**

This topic has been up on the main site theories for a long time now. We've pretty much come to the same conclusions you guys have. That the instance where Dumbledore summoned Hagrid was the instance where we "saw someone in the Order do it, even before you knew the Order existed." However, the simile "like a ghostly bird" lead someone to believe that it really WAS a ghostly bird. Knowing that D's Patronus is a Phoenix from JK's site lead them to the conclusion that it was his Patronus. However, Harry describes the spell as "silvery vapor" which has no distinct form. It's just a blob.

I imagine this to work as a sort of wizard IM. He thinks of a message, and sends it through his wand. Much like pulling thoughts out of his brain to put in the penseive. Which might explain some of Hagrid's panic when he arrived on the scene. If he sent a message saying, "Come quick! Someone's been attacked!" it would make much more sense than if it was just a summons device, which is about all a patronus could be used for, as they do not speak.

he dosn't does he faeks is used in the cos when harry sticks up for dd.

Sure, it's right after the attack on Krum. I don't have chapter or page numbers right now, sorry, but you should be able to find it. It's after they've found out about the third task, and Krum takes Harry away to talk. Then Mr. Crouch shows up and Harry runs to get Dumbledore; when they get back, Krum is unconcious and Mr. Crouch is gone, and Dumbledore says something like, "I need Hagrid." And something silvery shoots out of his wand towards Hagrids cabin. If I have time later I'll look up page numbers for ya'll....

I seem to remember Prof. McGonagall,Dumbledore and Harry in Dumbledore's office, and DD sends Prof. McG to stall Umbridge, and DD sends Fawkes to warn someone,slips my mind, and when Fawkes a delivered his warning, a silvery phoenix feather appears in DD's office....am I imagining that scene, because i seem to be able to recall it quite easily.

If not, then maybe that's how the Order communicates?

For me, it's the mirror Sirius had given to Harry. The fire is quite impossible because it could be interupted like what Umbridge had done in OotP. I've read some theory about using the Chocolate Frog, for me, it's possible.

I believe it's the silvery thing that DD shoot towards Hagrid's cabin
Jk has said in her page that the thing about the Chocolate frog cards was a good one, but that it wasn't right, and that the witch or wizard needed only his/her wand, so I guess that leaves Fawkes out of the question too.

We are all forgeting that JKR said that you NEED A WAND so it cant be the mirror..and it cant be Fawkes...as someone said Harry knew what a patronus looked like and he did not know what DD sent off to Hagrid on GoF..so the silvery orb thing to me seems most plausable..how they would use that to communicate other than just summon the person is beyond me though

About the MESSAGE DART: I think since that book that said something about the "message dart" was just making up something for what DD did in the 4th book...you know what i mean? they didnt give a definition or anything about what it was in GoF so the author of that unathorized book just said it was a "message dart" because that name fits perfectly to what DD without actually knowing what it was...i hope that makes sense

You need a wand? Really? I thought it was that you don't need a wand! Well whatever it is, we've seen it before. I've been trying to figure this out for a long time I just don't know what on earth it could be. There's no reason why it can't be fawks. Or maybe that instrument Dumbledore uses when Harry sees Mr. Weasly getting attacked. The one from which the serpents issued. The chocolate frog prediction was a good one. That would also explain how Dumbledore has been watching Harry so closely. Too bad thats not it. This is really confusing. I'm getting a headache, does anyone have an asprin?

Yes. A wand is needed but I think I'll just wait for JK to answer the FAQ poll because I believe, the question about the Communication will be choosen. My brain is already twisting and turning about this!

Wondering about sparks, in OoTP, pg 55 of the Scholastic paperback it says

Then what can it be?

I read some where that they communicate through patronus'. like in book 6 when Tonks sends a patronus ahead to the school to tell them that harry is safe after she finds him laying on the ground bound with the invisible cloak over him, thanks to mafoy.

If I remember correctly, the order uses patronuses to communicate. Remember when Tonks found Harry in the train (book 60 she sent her patronus, which meant to be for Hagrid, but to Snape who received it and met Harry at the gates.

From JKR herself....



So there you go; Question Answered

This is an old topic - no idea why the sudden resurgence in interest in it...

But it's been answered long ago by JKR now.

And might I just say, on a personal note, that I'm pretty pleased with myself that this was one theory of mine that I actually had right!

*ahem*

Anyway, it seems as though this isn't going to generate much more discussion now, so I'm going to archive it