So... Yes, I was the one who wrote the infamous word "hate"...

And I won't apologize, no. I am a very well balanced person in my normal, real life. I don't hate anyone, seriously, I don't! But my books... Oh! That's a totally different story! I love, hate, envy, diss... There's a wide variety of emotions that I get to live through my books, and I love the rollercoaster ride that comes with them!

I do hate Jacob. I do. (And I'm sorry if this offends anyone, this is only my very own personal opinion here.) And I hate him because he represents what I wouldn't want on a guy for me. His temper, his rudeness, his necessity to be there and push, push and push to the limits, and take advantage of the situations... And especially his immaturity. Ah! He's a guy that I wouldn't want to be with.

I cannot deny that he is a great character, pivotal to the plot and really necessary for Bella's survival. He was there for her (for all the wrong reasons, nevertheless, but kept her in one piece) and helped her overcome the obstacles and regain the will to live. He also allowed her to be her age (she does tell Edward on Twilight that she was too old for her age) and enjoy some careless fun.

But the thing is... Stephenie Meyer did a great job describing the guy I'd like for me in Edward and the guy I'd never like for me in Jacob. And I believe that just like Bella, I need a guy who is more mature than me because I seek some things that older people seek as well: stability, tranquility, and the peace that a quiet afternoon at home reading or listening to music can bring.

So I think that Jacob is not suitable for Bella mostly because he is not suitable for me. That's why I hate him, because I wouldn't want him for me. So, yes, I raised my hand: I do hate Jacob Black.

EDIT: And after writing this, I just realized that I might be the only person who will raise her hand...

Bad, Anita, bad!

I think you just stabbed the point home: each of reacts to the characters personally.
I don't like the games Jacob played, well, I suppose because my Jacob didn't play those games.

Therein lies the brilliance of SM's creation: we all relate to the tale on a personal level, which brings us into the story more passionately than if it were just another vampire/werewolf book. Look at Elaine: she's still rereading them! Why? Because they are compelling to us as individual readers.

And I admire you for it Anita. I think the reason I don't hate him is because he's just a little boy who has been forced to grow up because of his werewolf situation. However, if for any reason he get did get Bella, he's would leave her, because I think he'd be unable to stay with the same person from such a young age without imprinting on her. For that I would really hate him, but it's a moot oint because she ends up with Edward.

Anyone else keep seeing shiny silver Volvo's all over the place? It's driving me mad, I parked next to one in tow, I saw a new one turn out of my road...they are everywhere.Stupid shiny Volvo owners!

Is this thread just for fans? Or can people who don't like Twilight, being me I guess, talk about why that is?

I think probably you can see that this is a very much pro Twilight thread and although you may have some valid points to make to support your opinion, I can't promise that I or any other supporter of these books might not lynch you for feeling the opposite. Your comments might be better placed in the Bed Books thread in the Just Get Away From Life forum.

Of course this is just a personal view, others who post in this thread may feel up to the challenge, but I don't think it would be a good idea.

Incedently, please remember that posts should contain a minimum of two full lines of text to fall within the rules. Thanks.

Alright, sorry about not posting enough...I've been here so long, I forget things. I have a pretty strong back bone so I'm able to take the heat. Here's a lot more lines.
Okay, so I’m not doing this to stir up trouble, I just am doing it to provoke thought among this community.
Up until about a mouth ago I only had vaguely heard of Twilight, I've seen it at stores, and seen a few people, mostly girls, caring around one of the books on campus. But my cousin read the first book and said happily that she liked it, due to the fact that my cousin and I have similar opinions on enjoyable media, I thought I might like it as well and she let me borrow it.
I couldn't finish the first book, I got so sick of it's complete unoriginality I put it down, and I'm more than happy to never pick it up again.
I am a young woman, being 20, so I am the demographic the book reaches for. So I'm not coming from the view of some guy who pukes at the mere thought of a romance story. I like romance, a proud shipper of various fandoms, I'd happily talk the ear off to anyone to describe of one my favorite couples.
I’m also not coming from the place of a person who needs to be different for the sake of being different. I don’t believe that just because something is popular makes it bad. Otherwise I won’t be on this forum right now.
And it's obliviously not the fantasy part, since I've been watching sci-fi and fantasy literally my entirely life. I watched X-Flies when I was 5, and Star Trek before I could talk.
Vampires? Don't bother me either, though I've never been a fan of Anne Rice, nor any other vampire lore, I love Buffy the Vampire Slayer dearly, and perfectly happy to state it loud and proud.
As I've just hinted, I am in fact a giant geek, and even though I'm pretty ignorant of other vampire stories, I'm fully versed in all kinds of other fiction that's been typed as "geeky" or "nerdy" by many. And even though Meyers didn’t take from any other writers in the type of vampires she created, one of the only books redeeming spots of originality, it’s clear to me that she took from other fiction.
What really killed me when I was reading Twilight, is how much it was painfully like other stuff I like, either Meyers is a fantasy fan herself or the clichés in Twilight are a hell of a coincidence. I am one of the other 13 people in the world who watched the show Roswell from beginning to end. It was about a group of beautiful aliens whose secret is found out by a dark hair brainy girl when she was saved by one of the aliens who had fallen in love with her, sound familiar? I mentioned Buffy the Vampire Slayer before, one of the conversations between Edward and Bella sound amazingly similar to Buffy and Angel's conversation after they first meant. Buffy: "maybe I don't want a friend," Angel: "I didn't say I was yours." And of course Buffy's passionate romances with both the bleach blonde and brunet vampire make the viewer/reader of both that and Twilight makes one ask themselves the question "Haven't I seen this before?"
That's the question that I kept asking myself as I kept reading. Usually the media I enjoy is similar, and that usually makes me happy to draw comparisons, but Twilight is a special case. It's special because the characters are the flattest characters I've ever viewed. Bella's is so spineless; she doesn't have any courage to tell any of her boring "normal" suitors that she's not interested. Another cliché! Hello Riley, or Hojo, or Norrington. She has no ambition, no hopes for her future, no real friends or people who really understand her. She has no life, or excitement, other than Edward, which is just so anti-feminist; it almost makes me what to cry. I’m not bothered by the fact that Edward rescues her a lot, I like comic books, if I was bothered by the super hero rescuing the girl; I’d never be able to read them.
I think that Edward is alright, he’s a completely clichéd hero/anti-hero, but really alright as a character, I think. His actions towards Bella is what kept me reading for the time I did, but I think that if Meyers took out the repetitive mentions of how unbelievably gorgeous he his, the book would have been at least 100 pages shorter.
The straw that broke the camel’s back, what made me put down the book, is the fact that Edward carried Bella on his back through the forest. Anyone who’s a fan of InuYasha can be with me on this one, but for those who don’t like this manga/anime series, I’ll explain. InuYasha always carries Kagome on his back when they need to get to places. To shorten, InuYasha is the hero; Kagome is the girl he saves, its strand comic forum. Also InuYasha, like Edward, has golden eyes, just another thing that bothers me.
I think where the whole book falls apart for me in believability is the fact that Edward falls in love with Bella in the first place. She is so painfully unremarkable, and she even thinks that about herself to the point of annoyance. She insists that she's not beautiful, or even a little pretty, yet she has every boy in that hick town lining up to ask her to their little school dance. From this I can only infer that she has almost no self-esteem. She's shy, which I suppose is believable if she is so down on herself all the time, but she gets friends with out even having to put any effort into it. I suppose there is some novelty with becoming friends with the new girl, but Bella has absolutely nothing in common with the people she's "friends" with. Something that would give reason to the fact that Bella has all these people who hang around with her.
She has nothing that makes her stand out in the crowd, or even anything that gives her the status of being above normal high school intelligence. Unless you count that she cracked the spine of classic British literature, you know the books that anyone who has taken a lit class in college, or even high school, would read. If Meyers really wanted her to be intelligent by showing the impressive list of books Bella has read, she should have given her something more like “Midnight’s Children” or “One Hundred Years of Solitude.”
She has nothing she’s passionate about. I don’t care if it’s the violin, the NRA, or animal rights. Everybody has a cause, something that makes them tick, something that propels them to make the world better or to bring a little happiness into other people’s lives, or even there own. Bella has none of these things.
She has nothing that would make unbelievably prefect Edward, from Bella's eyes, fall for her, at least not to anyone without a vampire's nose.
I don't give Meyers a break. Theses books read like fan fiction, Mary Sue continually gets saved by painfully perfect hero who’s only flaw is that he distances himself from you because he loves to much. It's true just about every romantic story ever has been done before, but what makes the story worth it is how it's presented. It matters if the characters are relatable in there thoughts and feelings and in their actions towards the other characters. If they're multi dimensional people that they have other interests outside what’s happening in the story. They also have to be flawed, when the characters do something, we ask ourselves, "was that right or wrong?" It's not a given that anyone will do the right thing, like in real life. And that they are people we aspirer to be, strength of will, a desire to do the right thing and make the world a better place, and having dreams that are beautiful.
If the themes with in the story reaches to be of philosophical value, gets you asking questions about human nature, and the role of fate or destiny, our place in the world.
Maybe I'm too cerebral a person. Maybe I expect too much of writers. Maybe I should just allow myself to be entertained. But if I yielded to this type of thinking, I wouldn't be me. Twilight neither stimulated my mind, in presenting the philosophical questions I posted above in ways I never saw before, nor my heart, with well rounded, multi dimensional characters.

Erm...I was actually telling you to NOT post in here.

I'm not going to break your post down because I don't think I want to.

I will however say this. I watched every single show you mentioned, I saw the similarities, in fact when I was reading the books I sniggered a couple of times thining some of her ideas had already been used before. But I opened my mind to her story.

It's not about a vampire, it's not about a plain girl with no self esteem. It's about enduring and everlasting love. So what if it was cliched. Stephenie Meyer doesn't claim to have written some great masterpieces, or that she has created characters with the most depth in the literary world. She has though created a world of escapism, where a young girl who is not confident in her self, who came from being a small fish in a big pond where everyone was tanned and beautiful to being the subject of interest in a small town, where it turns out, she attracted the attention of a bunch of lustful teenage boys. Who's to say this doesn't happen, why does this make Bella a bad character? How do you know she hasd no ambition? We don't know that, it isn't written. As soon as she arrive in Forks practically her life is taken over by her obsession, we never get to read her back story in full.

And Edward, well he's a combination of Mr Darcy and every other romantic male lead Stephenie Meyer ever read. He's the same for me and I'm not the niche market reader, I'm a mum in her mid forties, and I would call my self a cerebral person. I like to think and be stimulated, but I also like to be entertained just for entertainments sake and be allowed to enjoy the books for what they are, pure and unadulterated escapism.

Sadly, I think you tried too hard.

Oh, I'm so excited . Oh no...the word that gets me in excitement...wait...SQUEEEEE! Now that that's over with I would like to discuss the "Power of Twilight" .I'm kinda jealous cause my sister is going to the premiere party of the new book .Anyway, this is like the only books I read with vampires.(I read HP, too!)I'm starting to catch up with my reading of Twilight.I'm so excited that the movie is coming out.Dear Wizemgamot and Ministry workers,the link I'm putting on this passage is only the movie trailer of the new Twilight movie. I promise on my heart that it is not a virus.
Twilight Trailer

I'm not calling people who like clichéd romance bad people; I'm not attaching anyone, or calling anyone stupid. I know that not many people are like me, I've known that since the third grade, I know most people don't mind not having to think when they watch a movie, TV show, or read a book. But my mind analyses, it's what it does, and I'm especially good with literature.
I was just trying to make a stance for my opinion of why I don't like Twilight, and that I have legitimate reasons to think so. I don't think it's a bad book because everyone else likes it, which is the words I've heard from people I've talked to when I try to explain my distain for the story. That's why I wrote that novel-sized post, not because I was trying to hard, but to fully articulate my opinion.
I don't think that it makes Bella a bad character because she's attractive, and she doesn't know it. I've seen this trait work well in female characters, Joey from Dawson's Creek, and of course Hermione. In the cases of both the formentioned characters it made them endearing. But I think it leans toward Sue territory that she has all these boys lining up to date her when she had gotten no attention from boys before. Her reasons for her emo attitude towards herself, and life in general before Edward, I feel isn't really explained.
And we know she has no ambition because the entire book is from her perspective, it's all written in the first person. And we know what she has for breakfast and when she does her homework, if she has time to mention those mundane things, than surely Meyers would have left room to talk about Bella's passion for (fill in the blank here).
And I think Edward is fine as a character, not great, but I honestly don't mind him. Probably would even like him if I enjoyed the rest of the story.
I think I've defended myself, so I won't post here anymore if this truly is only a support thread because I wouldn't want to get into a debate if this isn't the venue for it.

I'd like to say that it's interesting that you would judge the books so much when you claim you couldn't even get through Twilight. I think it would be safe to assume then that you have not read New Moon or Eclipse either, then? It's therefore intriguing to me that you would judge so much of this story, where the plotline incredibly develops in the sequels, on only a part of the first book. Not to come across wrongly, I think having your opinion is beautiful (and I shared some of it before I read the books) but to base such a strong opinion on something you haven't fully read seems a little strange to me.

Yes, there are similarities between Twilight and other fiction, if you're looking for them. There are always similarities between books. There is so much fiction out there that I think it's impossible to come up with something completely original. Stephenie Meyer created her own story, her own universe. (In case you didn't know, she had never even read a vampire story-- they scared her as a kid. I think it's therefore safe to say that vampires weren't that big on her reading list) If people nail down her fiction and truly look for similarities, they will be there. There are similarities between Harry Potter and other things, between Lord of the Rings and other things, between Narnia and other things. If you look for them. As I said, you could come up with something completely original, but if someone looked through it hard enough, they could say you simply copied it from somewhere. And obviously, if you read a book in the same genre that you're very passionate for, the similarities are going to be that much more obvious and apparent to you. However, if you had read Twilight first and turned it around, who would you say was copying who?

I find Bella what most teenage girls tend to be- shy and completely insecure. These features make an incredibly dynamic character, in my opinion. Granted, Bella has never been at the top of my favorite character list. We have to remember that at the start of Twilight, Bella is in a completely new school and a completely new town. Obviously she's going to be unsure of how to act and what to say. Not even the most confident person would be that vocal during their first few weeks in a new situation. Not until you know your bearings at least. You mention her life revolves around Edward, I think that's part of the magic of the story. She did and does have aspirations, she has dreams, she has friends, she has passions. Edward came into her life and she lost all that. It embodies what true love really is. How powerful is love that you lose all of yourself because you become so completely dedicated to your second half. And that's what Bella is to Edward as well as the other way around.

Something that struck me is that you mention how much Stephenie Meyer says how gorgeous Edward is. Keep in mind here that the book is from Bella's point of view so it's Bella saying it. This is more evidence of how completely in love with Edward she is. (see above)


Also, you mention the character's lack of a strength of will. I'm not sure how far into Twilight you got, but the entire story is about right and wrong. It's wrong for Edward to fall for Bella and he knows that. It's wrong for her to want to be with him when she finds out the truth and still later in the book when things happen because of what Edward is. It's probably more right and realistic that Bella fall for Mike Newton, but that's not the case. The quintessential idea in this book (and more-so in the sequels for that matter) is right and wrong. The story for Edward and Bella is so completely wrong that it feels right. Edward is always questioning his morals (clearly shown in New Moon). Edward of course has a strength of will. He is undoubtedly one of the strongest fictional characters. Again, I encourage you to read the sequels to more fully get my point across. In New Moon, it becomes evident how much Edward has been struggling with how strong he thinks he is and what he knows is right.

I also wanted to mention this: If Stephenie didn't feed off every other book she's read or every story she's ever heard, what kind of a writer would she be? All of these things are part of life-experience. You will always keep them with you. She probably does feed of other books and other stories, because she read them. How is she going to write a well-though out book if she doesn't know what a well-thought out plotline is? You have to get examples of this from things around you. I've always thought that avid readers make the best writers. They know what to feed off of and what is good and bad for a book.

Obviously, I can't speak for anyone else and the opinions in this post are entirely my own.

I just want to say that there are only a limited number of plots for stories. Stephenie Meyer, as Hilly said never read a vampire story in her life because she was frightened of scary stories and in fact she never watched the Buffy or Angel series on TV. Her story came from a dream that she had. Perhaps she had seen something and her subconcious replayed it to her through that dream, who knows?

Vampire/romance stories go back years. One of the earliest was The Vampyre, written in 1819. Even Bram Stokers Dracula is in essence about a vampire who is trying to get back his lost love. That story was written in 1897. I think it doesn't matter that the story is a well used one. It only matters how we the reader grasps it.

..and those limited themes for a storyline...

Man versus man.
Man versus nature.
Man versus self.
Man versus God.

Every story is twisted in it's own way. The author brings it to life with their words, language, characters. That's what being a storyteller is all about.

Perhaps this is because you are so well versed in the sci-fi anime genres that the story line majorly lacked originality to you. A vast majority of people do not swing that way with their tastes, for some reason, and even in literary circles, the sci-fi genre is laughed at amongst more "serious" students. That baffles me because there are some gems in the genre and a lot to learn from them - and I think that only recently has the genre been more accepted and taken seriously. At any rate, when you've got someone such as yourself, someone who's immersed in the world and knows a lot about various genres within the genre, it probably gets more difficult to find something original! I've watched a lot of Sci-Fi, but beyond Lord of the Rings, Chronicals of Narnia, various Tad Williams and smaller unknown authors aside from Rowling; I'm not well-read in the area. Yeah, the story has a familiar teen angst/good/evil feel to it that a lot of stories encompass, but I didn't find the lack of originality that you did.


Perhaps it's the amount of emulation that Meyers has in her books that bugs you. I mean, most authors take from things they've read - some more heavily than others - and there are usually formulas that work well in most fiction that authors emulate to evolve their own work. Some, JKR, might be better at weaving in the things they've read and loved than others. JKR borrows heavily from many other genres and sources, but she is most expert in weaving it all in. Northrop Frye, a very favorite critic of mine, finds, " The ultimate model for Harry Potter is "Tom Brown's School Days" by Thomas Hughes, published in 1857." I must say, Bloom is not at all a fan of the books or of Rowling, and he makes some amazingly valid points about the series. I am still unashamed of being a fan, but I cannot deny that what he says is true. At any rate, I'm not comparing Meyers with Rowling at all, either - I like both series, but I can see the formulas in each of their writing styles as well.

I loved this series! I was very sad that it ended. I see the similarities, yes, but I also see the differences. I think some of these blatant emulations that you see in the other things you have enjoyed might be common in this genre, to this demographic, is because it works. Girls and guys are attracted to the beautiful. We hope that these beautiful people will be decent. We kind of hope they'll be mysterious and dangerous. The medium speaks to the age of the demographic in what that audience might be going through - only they're looking at it with a giant microscope-creating situations that are completely out there and no one will really ever go through. They're working with volatile teen emotion; and it sells. So it might be that Meyers has never watched an episode of Roswell - but that formula works for the genre, and the formula just happens to look a heck of a lot alike, wherever it's found.

I think some of your "flattest characters" comment also comes from not enjoying the books enough to get to a point in them where the characters go through more development. The books do present a weaker heroin - but I don't find it to be anti-feminist. She grows stronger as the series progresses, but if it's too painful for you to get to that point, then you probably would be disappointed with the minor changes she makes as she goes! Character wise, yes, her characters start out physically (some of them) and aesthetically strong - but internally weak. The characters take a while to develop, and that's a turn-off. Her adult fiction book, "The Host", was painful for me to start! I couldn't stand the beginning because she was so vague, and the characters were so flat that it took a few chapters in before I finally figured it out. Not that there was a big mystery, but I had to adjust my thinking to allow myself to enjoy the rest of the book.

Just be careful that you're not telling those of us who enjoy the books for what they are that we do not have the brain power to contemplate more difficult and profound questions. Those who enjoy being entertained are not all incapable of reading and enjoying something profound and philosophical.

I don't mind that you post in here, genuinely not liking the books because they don't stimulate you the way you like to be stimulated when you read; but please don't state things so that you call out the rest of us as non-cerebral because we don't mind enjoying a book that is less appealing to you.

hey i'm surprised that a lot of people don't like twilight series... i guess we have a different veiw on things.... i'm sooo happy! i preordered Breaking Dawn and i got the host! any body planning on going to the Barnes and Noble midnight party? i want to and am trying to convice my parents... if any one is maybe we could go to the same bookstore and chat. that would be fun! ha ha ha
i'm sorry but i didn't read the post for the non-twilighter.. i couldn't stand it... i have gotten 15 friends to read the series and they love it..... 70 more days... boohoo why can't it be like 5.... well one day it will be... someday my book will come....

tha host was scary at the begining... the whole capturing thing and now i'm at the part where they're dying in the desert.... which is not that far into it... i thought the sad parts were supposed to happen at the end... boohoo.... it make me want to cry.....

~Sarah

So, if I really like to analyze what I read I shouldn’t have liked the Twilight series?

I read (and write) technical stuff all day long, so when I’m reading fiction, I'm not necessarily picking apart every item to see if it’s scientifically valid. The Twilight series was, in my opinion, an easy, fun read. I know some people consider it a great work of literature and take any criticism of the books or the author as a highly personal offense. I try to avoid those people. Are there some things about the series I didn’t like? Sure, but it was nice to read a story that didn’t rely on slapstick humor or repetitious sexual innuendo.

My teenage daughter brought the first book home and said she thought I might enjoy it. Actually, I think she wanted to talk to someone about it and wanted to be reasonably sure that person wasn't going to get too emotional. Is the plot line similar to other stories? Of course, but is it a rip off? Certainly not. There have been lots of stories about vampires and quite a few stories of vampires falling in love with mortals, which in turn are based on the Greek myths about gods falling in love with mortals. Star crossed lovers? Everyone thinks Romeo and Juliet. One could make the argument that Jasper and Emmett are Mercutio and Benvolio.

Logical suspension of disbelief too impossible? Again, I don’t think so. Bella’s move to a new town and suddenly finding herself the center of interest is really quite common, especially since she moved to a small town where everybody has known everybody for years. Even Bella’s dad mentions that he knows most of the kid’s grandparents. I think Stephenie mentioned somewhere that her sister experienced this.

Bella has no ambition? Well, it certainly seems like she has none. But now I’m sounding like someone’s mom. When my daughter read this book (I think she was sixteen at the time) she never picked up on fact that it’s never mentioned what Bella wants to do with the rest of her life. What her greatest passion is, aside from Edward. As somebody’s mom, my first thought was “yeah, that’s nice Bella, but what are you going to do next year?” That’s my job, to always be thinking ahead. Did I think this ruined the book? No, this is the way a lot of teenaged girls think. To have Bella sitting there carefully plotting out what classes she’s going to take in college so that she stays on track for her five- and ten-year plan would make the character of Bella a completely different person.

I’m a little surprised about the claims of the story being un-original or clichéd. I recently read Thomas C. Foster’s book “How to Read Literature Like a Professor” (yes, I suppose that does make me a weird person) and if you want to ruin your fiction reading for the rest of your life, I suggest you read it as well. Think ANYTHING is original? Think again. All those sci-fi anime are based on Japanese, Chinese, Russian, or even Greek myths, especially the latter. Or they’re based on religious texts. How’s that for unoriginal? What makes a story original is how well the author reinterprets the well known one. Some of Star Trek’s most popular episodes were based on, guess what, Shakespeare.

So why am I not in love with the books? Well, I’ll admit I like them and have read all three. I never made an attempt (except when cornered) to even think about the biology of Stephenie Meyer’s vampires. Don’t even try defending it; Stephenie has a degree in English not Biology and it shows. But the book isn’t being presented as realistic fiction, so who cares?

I liked New Moon the least only because I felt Bella’s relationship with Edward in that book was more like an addiction as opposed to being in love. Being in love should make you want to be a better person, not someone incapable of making a move without the other person. Gosh, what if Edward were to die? Of course, now I’m sounding like someone’s (old) mom. Eclipse felt a little rushed, but on the whole it was okay. I have not pre-ordered Breaking Dawn, but probably will read it when it comes out. I have no interest in Stephenie’s other book, the Host.

What I really liked about the books was the behaviors of the supporting characters. They were all so dead-on (pardon the pun). Sometimes it seemed like they were more real than the main ones.

I think I agree with etphonehome, trying to over-analyze any story to figure out where it comes from, or constantly comparing it to something you're already comfortable with can really ruin what might be a fun experience. Step outside that comfort zone and take a chance. Additionally, I don't mind debate (some might say I like them a little too much) but I do get frustrated when it's insinuated that there is something wrong with me because I don't share the opposite viewpoints.

I don't mind a debate, but not when my intelligence is called into question because I do like something that someone else does not.

I think the whole reason that I do love these books is the ease of the read. I fell into them whole heartedly, I gave myself up to the fantasy.

I must say I have to agree about the biology of these vampires, the stone, granite texture of their bodies is the one I have a hard time with.



My point exactly. Not everyone has to love or like them even, but I think it doesn't dwell to over analyse something that is not trying to pass itself off as something it's not.

Obviously not everyone loves the same thing, and people have different opinions on things, and are entitled to said opinions. I mean, if we all liked everything, wouldn't the world just be boring.



Twilight is just a trilogy, and its just fiction. To try and analyze it really would take the fun out of reading it. In my case I like to come home after a hard day and read, I use books escapism, and I use Twilight as escapism. To be honest, I don't care whether Stephanie Meyer's got a few things wrong about the 'biology of vampires' (As EliasOsiris said, she's a writer not a biologist) and I don't care if I've read similar stories, I just use the books to escape into a different world where I can be a voyeur to someone elses problems rather than dealing with my own.

As for originality, no book is original. They are all based on something. Whether it be on myth, scientific theories, religious stories or indeed, as some would say is the case for Twilight, on other books. But even those other books that people say she may have stolen ideas from aren't original and have stolen ideas from other places themselves.
I mean let's take Harry Potter for example. It is quite obvious that JK had been influenced by other books such as Lord of the Rings and Narnia. (And also being influenced by anything with a magical reference in it... obviously ) But even Narnia was influenced by the Bible, Lord of the Rings was influenced by other things too.
What I'm trying to say here is the same as what everyone else has said. It doesn't matter if ideas and stories have been taken and have been incorporated into another story, because it happens all the time, with any book.



Exactly!! These books are fantasy novels. No one says that every detail has to be perfect or anything, because it's not like it's real. This came from Stephanie Meyer's head and well I think that I'm not going to dispute anything as being unreal or 'unbelievable' because this is her world. Its not the real world, and where there may be similarities to other books, coincidence or not, it's not any other world either. This is Stephanie Meyer's world and well, I'm just going to leave it alone, only she knows all the facts, and only she can say whether idea's have been plagerised or not too.

I'm not saying these books are works of great literature either. Yes I'm supporting the books because I do love them, they're great works of fiction, but no they're not the best I've read, they're no Austen or Shakespeare or Bronte, they probably will never compare to great authors like those either. But they're still good books. If you don't like them that's fair enough. But theres no denying the fact that they're not good books, they're well written and while the character development is slow, its still evident and I liked watching them grow throughout the series. Infact, I think it kept me reading because well if Bella had been completely built up in the first two chapters and then not grown as a character after that, well I would have cast her off as a shalow character or something.

There's just one last thing I'd like to say.


Who's to say that Stephanie Meyer's ever read InuYasha though? Because well these similarites to me can easily be said to maybe just be coincidence. For example, how else is Edward going to carry Bella? I know he's all superstrength vamp man and could probably just hold her with his hand, but wouldn't that get in the way and be a bit annoying? For practicalities sake, I think it's just easier that he flung her on his back and went on his merry way.
And for the eyes? Easily could be coincidence as well. It's just an eye colour.
Now I'm not saying that it is coincidence, and that she definitely didn't take ideas, I'm just saying its very plausible that in this case, it really just is coincidence.

I'm going to leave it at that and just say, while I'm sticking up for Twilight, I'm also not saying that you have to love it either, people are entitled to their own opinions. But said opinions should probably be based on a little more hard evidence. I mean no offence by singling out Amyrat, but you said you didn't even finish Twilight, so you're judgement on the series is a little... well basically if you read the other books you might have a different opinion.

Kelly
x

you guys are draining the fun out of reading! books are like a place to escape to. for some people it's a second home because they have such a tough life that the only place that they feel happy in is the inside of a book.
for me a book is not just somewhere to go when i'm bored it's also how i deal with things. like when my grandma died, i read 7 books until i was ok. i know it sounds like i'm trying to leave my problems behind and not face them but who really wants to face something that could hurt you in a bad way. Some people read for enjoyment... and when do they do that? usually after work. It takes the stress away and makes people feel like they're in another world. A world where they can do anything, a world where no one really cares who you are they're just happy you're there. I've read the Twilight series about 5 times now. it helps me deal with my problems, and after i finish a certain part of the book i get my head out of the clouds and i feel happier.
I know all people are addicted to something; it could be bad or good for us. i'm addicted to reading and writing but i don't see myself as a future author. Books are like the hiding place we can go to where we can forget our life for the moment and focus on something else. I know when i have a job i will always have a book with me, even if i've read it before.

If you've read that book on analyzing books all i ask is Why? Why did you read it if it took the fun out of reading? most authors get ideas from other books and change it to make it their own. I'm writing a book for enjoymenat and i got the idea from the Twilight series. there are no vampires though. You have to realize ever author has his/hers own style and you can't change that. they choose what their characters want to do and what happens to them afterwards. i know that because i you look at Stephenie's writing and your own don't you see a huge difference? i do with mine. i may be able to interest readers but i can't make people take the book seriously. Not everyone can get their book(s) published. J.K almost didn't go through with it because she didn't get the series published until after the 9th time. then where would we be? no Hary Potter to bring us all together on a common interest. if it was all taken away would we come here and grieve? No. i think we would all be reading the series before it was taken away from us. We would get our last fill of Harry, Ron Hermione and the others. What if your favorite book was going to be taken away, not just from you but from everyone who has ever bought the book or rented it. Would you waste your time crying or would you pick up that book and read it for the last time?

Please know that i got the last paragraph out of nowhere. this just makes me sad when people don't take books as a serious healing process. some depressed people read to feel happier and have you heard the saying: a book a day could make the darks clouds go away. i heard it somewhere but i don't remember. Books can really help a person out.

~Sarah

Amen mrs.harrypotter.

Like I said earlier I use books for escapism, and like mrs.harrypotter points out so do a lot of other people.



Books and reading allow me and every other person hre a way to escape from their troubles and go and be happy in some other world or planet or universe and just be ok for that little while they're there. Its the same with anything, tv shows, movies, music and so much more.

And Twilight is that place for so many people, including myself. So yeah, we do need to stop analyzing every detail and just accept the fact that Twilight is a good book, yet it's not every body's cup of tea.

Kelly
x

I hope you are not including me in the you guys! I have defended Twilight to the enth degree and then some. I adored all three books and I am on my 4th re read in since 9th May. I have been having a hard time in my personal life recently and I have gladly lost myself in SM's world as you said, to help me cope with things.

Like I said, I don't mind a debate but some books don't need debating they just need to be read and enjoyed...Twilight!

Enough already! This horse is dead, let's stop beating him and get off. I think we can all agree that it doesn't really matter why you liked Twilight, or even how much you liked it. We're pretty much all on the same page when it comes to anyone who hated the book for any reason (who cares their reason). If you didn't like it, fine, go read something else.

Okay, time to switch horses now. Why do you guys hate (or strongly dislike, or get annoyed by) Jacob? I mean, the guy is only fifteen. He acts like a fifteen year old, but he's not going to be fifteen forever. Are we just all hard-wired to get all mushy when someone like Edward enters the room? On the one hand we have Jacob, all gangly, self-conscious, and insecure. On the other we have Edward, who despite looking like a seventeen year old, is actually closer to ninety. He thinks like an adult. He's had adult experiences which Jacob can't even imagine. Plus he's good at everything, impossibly strong, smart, confident, can read minds, and drives real well. That's kind of hard to compete with.

Jacob didn't ask for what happened to him, and what happened to him is kind of a big responsiblity. He didn't have the opportunity to say, no, he didn't want to do this. Plus, keeping secrets from your friends, especially if you have feelings for them, or having to cut them out of your life is hard when you're an adult. I can't imagine what it must be like if your fifteen. I'm sure Jacob is convinced that Bella is in love with Edward, but for all the wrong reasons. It must be tearing him apart to watch her walk happily down a road that he is convinced is the biggest mistake of her life. Poor Jacob.

Mostly I am annoyed with Jacob because he doesn't respect Bella enough to take her no for a no. He pushes and pushes her and preys on her weaknesses to manipulate her to say what he wants or feel what he wants her to feel. I don't care if he's 17 or 107, he can be respectful of her boundaries and her decisions even if he doesn't like him.

Edward didn't ask to become a vampire, either. Someone changed him. He's had to live a life he didn't choose for a very long time, and he's made a very big decision to live that life without taking the one thing that would make his vampire life a whole heck of a lot of blood. It's not something he'll ever be able to turn off, as Jacob would be able to do with the wolf. Jacob is a werewolf, but his life isn't over! Edward often makes a big deal about Bella experiencing everything human because it's completely different once you're a vampire. Jacob still gets to have his human experiences. His life isn't over and ended. It's just changed. People change and learn to deal with things every day without treating people the way Jacob treats his best friend.

That's what annoys me about Jacob.

Don't get me wrong; Jake's not the only character in the series that annoys me to no end! It's just when asked if I'd prefer Edward or Jacob to end up with Bella, my answer will always be Edward.

Just like I always wanted Snape to live! Sometimes I just don't get my way.

Haven't we also done Jacob? I mean in the why do we like/hate him? I thought we had, I feel like I have expressed my feelings about Jacob already.

Anyway, I don't dislike him. In fact I often found myself feeling sorry for him. A coiuple of times I even found myself screaming at Bella to just tell the guy the truth. As in 'Yes Jake, I do love you in that way, but I will never be with you because no matter what, I will always love Edwrd more.'

But she only ever got halfway, and he was too immature not to give up the fight. I think this got worse once he became a werewolf. I think this made him believe that he was the better protector for Bella, because werewolves were there to get rid of the vampires. He was too young to understand what was in her heart, he just looked at the monster he thought Edward was.

Apart from anything, I hated the way he forced himself on to her at every oppotunity. That smacks of immaturity too and I thought his behaviour in the tent was appalling and I really didn't feel sorry for him at all at that point. I just thought, you egotistical little.....!

But I don't dislike him, because that wouldn't be fair, he was important too Bella, and I think what happened between them was an important part of the story.

And that was waffle!

Do i have to repeat what i said? i guess i do ... o i'm not trying to be rude but EliasOsiris Jacob is 16... he had to be or else he wouldn't be able to drive.
anyways... well Jake had to be immature because if he was like Edward then Edward would of let Bella hang out with Jake all she wanted... and we wouldn't have seen Bella heal in New Moon plus we might of actually seen Bella really falling in love with Jake and Bella and Edward would of never planned to get married. Jacob brought out the kid in Bella, think about it. Bella didn't have much of a child life because she was always taking care of her mom. and if Jacob wasn't there in New Moon then that would of been the last book. No Edward.... no Bella (she would be depressed)
Both guys are 'monsters'. i know they didn't choose to be 'monsters' but with Edward someone choose for him, his mom. He was dying and his mom asked Dr.C to save him, Dr.C said he would do everything in his power and the mom referred to his power. the ability to change Edward. Jacob had it in his blood. he didn't believe the stories, but if we were there then we wouldn't believe them either. now please don't hate Jacob, but i see that Jake and Edward could be the same person because we all have 2 sides: Edward is one side and Jacob is the other. we all have 2 sides to us and Jacob realizes at the end of Eclipse that he can't win when he's acting the way he is, but he doesn't want to change so he runs off and choose to be a werewolf forever. it was a sad ending if you think about it.

~Sarah

Yeah your right I should probably give Jacob a break I guess he did in the end give up Bella. Hopefully after the next book I will like Jacob and he will have matured. Im just upset over other pov being in this next book because im so used to Bellas pov.

I think the mood of this thread needs to be lightened somewhat, so....

It's a well known fact that Stephenie Meyer was inspired by the music that she listened too while writting the books. One of her favourite bands being the British group Muse (Yes!).

So my question is this...what music would be on your Twilight soundtrack?

The first for me has to be

Vampires Will Never Hurt You - My Chemical Romance
in fact there are a couple of tracks by them that fit.
When You Were Young - Killers (listen to tthe lyrics)
My Immortal _ Evanessence
Bring Me to Life - Evanessence
Clair de Lune - Claude Debussy (obviously)
Various tracks by Paramore...too many to list, When it Rains in particular, listen to the words again!
Memories - Within Temptation
Somewhere - Within Temptation
Falling Away With You - Muse
Somewhere Only We Know - Keane
Sway - Bic Runga
Aurora - Lapush
Better Man & You Give Me Something - James Morrison (sexiest voice on the planet!)
The Blower's Daughter - Damien Rice (Gives me goosebumps)
Love Song for a Vampire - Annie Lennox
How to Save a Life - The Fray
Sing for Absolution - Muse
Someone Like You - Van Morrison ...the first line, 'I've been searching a long time,for someone like you....'
Strange and Beautiful - Aqualung (works perfectly)
When the Day Met the Night - Panic at the Disco
Bedshaped - Keane
Time Is Running Out - Muse
Nothing Lasts Froever - Maroon 5

I could list hundreds, there are so many!

What are your tips for a good soundtrack?

What a great idea Elaine!

Got to love Muse! I'll add Starlight into your collection.
I've recently fell for Augustana, and Sweet and Low would be a good choice for me, but I don't think Stephenie would approve.
Stop and Stare by OneRepublic would make it into my soundtrack, just like Apologize
Angels and Better Man by Robbie Williams
I'll Be by Edwin McCain
And Makes me Wonder by Maroon 5

I also agree: lots from Paramore will do!

I've got to say I love The Blower's Daughter! What a great song! And how appropriate!

For me, a great soundtrack for a book has to be a mix between songs that fit the scenes and songs that fit my reading mood. I like a lot of Linkin Park songs that could fit with the plot, but I wouldn't listen to them while reading, they might make me lose my focus, so I go for a lighter tone of the music while reading instead. (I love to listen to Linking Park while driving long distances in order to not fall asleep, but that is just my call.)

Now, weird enough, songs that remind me of Twilight (these are also on my soundtrack for the Series, but I don't listen to them while I read, these are driving material! ):
Animals - Nickelback
Toxic - Crazy Town
Blow me Away - Breaking Benjamin
Kryptonite - Three Doors Down

Actually, at the beginning of Twilight, Jake is fifteen. When Billy and Jake go to Charlie's house, Charlie says something like "I'll pretend I didn't see you behind the wheel, Jacob" to which Jake responds with "We get our licence early on the rez." That's why he can drive, but Jacob is fifteen when Twilight starts.

Anyway, music. Great idea, Elaine! Half the stuff I have now is my idea for songs that remind me of various parts of Twilight. It's quite addicting to make and download fanmixes. But some of my favorites in no particular except that which pops up on my Player (so they aren't arranged by book, or anything)-

Basically anything Muse
Sweet and Low by Augustana [is amazing, I love them] Good choice, Anita!
Your Guardian Angel by the Red Jumpsuit Apparatus
Sic Transit Gloria... Glory Fades by Brand New
Here (In Your Arms) by Hellogoodbye
Blood by My Chemical Romance ( )
Lullabye (Goodnight, My Angel) by Billy Joel [I think that's on Stephenie's playlist, but I still love it so...]
Congratulations by Blue October [this has been my absolute favorite song]
All the Same by Sick Puppies
Better Together by Jack Johnson
As Lovers Go by Dashboard Confessional
Forever Love by Anna Nalick
Earth to Bella Part 1 by Incubus ( )
Samson by Regina Spektor
Bleeding Love by Leona Lewis
Last Train Home by Ryan Star
I Found A Reason by Cat Powers
Missing You by Jem
Help Me Warm This Frozen Heart by Piano Magic ( )
Quiet by This Will Destroy You
Run by Snow Patrol
For Blue Skies by Strays Don't Sleep
Miss You Love by Silver Chair
Shot by The Rasmus
You Are the One by H.I.M.
No Fear by The Rasmus
Beautiful Things Can Come From the Dark by Azure Ray ( )
Wonderwall by Ryan Adams
You Are the Only One I Love by Jaymay
How My Heart Behaves by Feist
I Will Follow You Into the Dark by Death Cab for a Cutie (One of the best Twilight Songs)



I might have to organize these into books... Hmm, I'll stop now though before I get a little crazy.

A soundtrack for Twilight, for me, simply has to be music that reminds you of the story. I've got soundtracks for reading and songs that just remind me of the story. The ones I have for reading are songs that are easy to listen to, otherwise I would get so totally distracted, like Anita said. These are the soft, meaningful songs. My tip is to really just listen to the lyrics and their meaning.

I think I'm going to have to come back to this, I have way to much Twilight-inspired music!

good idea ive never tried for twilight but I do this type of thing all the time for Harry Potter

Iris-Goo Goo Dolls
Chasing Cars- Snow Patrol
Memory-Sugarcult
She is-Fray
and possibly part of hero/heroine-boys like girls
breathing-lifehouse
I agree with the people who have mentioned these songs in particular among others
How to Save a Life-Fray
Somewhere Only We Know-Keane
Your Guardian Angel- The Red Jumpsuit Apparatus
Blood-My Chemical Romance
Run- Snow Patrol


im done for now

hey not to change the subject or anything but has anyone noticed that Jared and Ian act a lot like Jacob and Edward? Jared is like Jacob with the immature thing and Ian is like
Edward with the don't hurt her feelings thing. very strange to me. i'm alost done with the book and it is awsome!

ummm.... i don't have any songs... so... ya... ummm... that's it.

~Sarah

No I never noticed that and so im very tempted to go look for myself. Unfortunately I let a friend borrow my copy of Eclipse. Ever since my friends heard me talking about them I have lend out each book multiple times and everytime I see them they pretty much have their head in whatever twilight book they are reading. Riight now one friend has Eclipse and another has Twilight so basically im left with New Moon which is enough for now but im anxious to get both back.

I've never really thought about my own soundtrack to the Twilight series. I'ma have to think about it now.

Was It A Dream - 30 Seconds To Mars. I can see this being played in New Moon after Edward leaves Bella and she's in her zombie like state.

Running Away - Midnight Hour. Again after Edward leaves.

Anthem For A Seventeen Year Old Girl - Broken Social Scene. When Bella first arrives in Forks

I Don't Care - Apocalyptica ft. Adam Gontier. When Bella goes all rebelish in New Moon.

And then some random songs that I can just see fitting with it all.

Your Guardian Angel - Red Jumpsuit Apparatus
Face Down - Red Jumpsuit Apparatus
The Adventure - Angels and Airwaves
Hallelujah - Jeff Buckley
Shadow Of The Day - Linkin Park
Whiskey Lullaby - Brad Paisley
Strange - Joe Brooks
August Is Over - We The Kings
You and I - Fightstar
I Dare You To Move - Switchfoot
Such Great Heights - The Postal Service

Kelly
x

Most of the songs I think of in terms of going with the films generally as opposed to with a certain scene. Although, there have been one or two that I think fit certains scenarios more than others. I like how some of the words really open themselves up to a particular scene, mostly 'The End' in New Moon...sad but all the breaking up songs about total devastating heartbreak lead to that chapter.

I love Muse, I know that SM was inspired by their music and I really think it will be great if they do write some original stuff for the move.

Does anyone else keep up with the bog on MTV...Twilight Tuesdays? I love it, although Ic an't access any of the videos until someone puts them on You tube. Anyway, here's a link to this weeks....

News One

MTV news blog

Two things, one Spuck Ranson...RP is such a goof!

Two, will someone please make sure I have some kind of access to watching the clips from the MTV movie awards on Sunday...by Monday latest. It will ba a couple of weeks before MTV Uk shows this show. And I want to watch the whole scene from Twilight that is going to be uinveiled! Thankyou

Edit: Bella sleeping with Edward in her room...The Man With the Child in his Eyes it's so beautiful. Kate Bush wrote this when she was 16...and I was too I think.

Whoa! I was away for a teensy bit and not only did I have like four pages to read but I was widely entertained with the "I like it...don't like it" debate. I also appreciated everyone's take on the intellectual merits of the series and why we read it.
Entertainment is a good reason


~What do you mean 'Poor Jacob'? Whether or not he believes it is the best road for her it is not up to him to interfere in a decision that is ultimately hers. One could argue that Edward believes that Bella's association with the Pack is quite possibly a huge mistake and yet he compromises and consents to her hanging out with Jacob because he understands that Bella has that closeness with him. Edward is confident that the feelings his girlfriend has the Jacob are strictly platonic and not romantic...this is the difference in maturity between Jacob and Edward.


Yes it is true that Jacob pushes and pushes and is incredibly manipulative towards Bella. He doesn't respect her boundaries one little bit. However, if I am to play the Devil's Advocate here for a bit, it could be argued that Edward too doesn't respect Bella enough either. Bella has made her intentions clear to Edward. 1. She wants him-physically. She is willing to give herself to him, to trust him with her intimately. He toys with her then pushes her away. 2. She wants him eternally. He has denied her countless times. He stalls. Some argue that it is for her own good that he does this however the biggest difference here is that Edward doesn't know what it is like to choose the vampire lifestyle. Bella has lived in close proximity to that life for over a year now and has made her decision (I feel) based on first hand information. She understands that she will die to the human spirit. She understands that blood will sustain her. She understand that while vampires have extraordinary powers, they have limitations such as where they are able to live and the lying that goes along with protecting the lifestyle.
Maybe it is just me but I also see Edward as not being as respectful of Bella as he could be. Don't get me wrong, I am a big Bella and Edward living happily ever after fan but these are just some of the things that I see.


I will always think of Gray's Anatomy Season two when I hear this song.

I hve just read Eclipse...again, and when I got to the whole Jacob/Bella kissing the 2nd time, I couldn't stop laughing. I don't know why, well I do, he's such a dork. The things he said and how she fell for it. In fact when he was carrying her to the campsite the banter was quite comical and for this I cannot take Jacob seriously at all. I don't doubt that he was pasionately in love with Bella, but the werewolf thing only caused his body to mature faster not his mind. He may have had to do a lot of growing up, but it doesn't change the fact that he was still only what, 16 1/2? No competition.

I don't hink the things Edward has done are meant disrespectfully. I think he just really believes that he does it all for the right reasons, to protect Bella. You could argue that those are the saem reasons that Jacob has for forcing Bella to admit she was in love with him, but I don't think so. Edward wants whatever Bella wants and thinks is best for her. Jacob wants Bella for himself full stop.

Acoording to TWSTMNBN..cast...SM is a Hufflepuff! Yay!

i don't think we want to get into Jacob again but here i go...

[Mod Deleted]

There i said it. Don't yell at me for saying that though. Every one here knows i love Jakey and i will defend my werewolf no matter what anybody says. I now have a sad feeling that Jake might die in the 4th book while saving Bella... tears...

ok onto happier topics now please no more love/hate Jacob. i think we shouldn't fight when the book is 68 days away...

i'm still trying to find some good Twilight songs.. i have a few but i have to look up the singers

~Sarah


Edit: Hey i just heard that Stephenie has said that Bella will become a vampire... good for her... now what will happen to Jocob?

Mod Edit: You know that using caps that way is seen as shouting. Sorry it had to be deleted. We are all passionate about the books, just don't break the rules to show it. Thanks

I still believe that he will imprint on someone. Perhaps someone that we already know, like Angela. I like Angela, she's a nice girl.

So it's 68 days is it...that means I have 67 days till I fly to the US and join the midnight book launch party at Borders in Orlando. Yay!

Is this going to be the very last book? Because I would think Bella being changed would pretty much mean the end of the series in a way not like it would be the very last thing in the last book but I would think that would pretty much be the resolution to the series maybe it would be Bella learning to control her vampire instincts. I dont know im sure SM will come up with something incredible that I would never have thought of in a million years.

Oh and by the way what are your thoughts on The Host I havent read it and I was wondering if I should go out and buy it soon.

Oh Elaine! I never actually thought of her in that way, but Angela would definitely make a great imprinting choice for Jacob! She's such a nice girl, and would certainly make him settle down and become a better man. She's got such nice feelings, plus, she's very preceptive! My vote goes to Angela!



I've read and heard some interviews of SM and well, seems like BD will be the last book from Bella's perspective. Now we have Midnight Sun to look forward (and she said she won't write New Moon or Eclipse from Edward's POV) and even though earlier this year Wikipedia said that it was scheduled for a Fall 2008 release, it doesn't anymore, and I have a hunch that they'll make us wait until August 2009 for it...

From the interviews it feels like SM is not ready to let go of the characters, so, even if I'm awful at predicting, I'll give it a go: I predict a book on Jacob's POV, maybe telling what happened after he ran away at the end of Eclipse... And maybe she'll write on other characters as well, but she said she even has an unfinished story about mermaids on her computer, so, who knows!

Who wants to read mermaid stuff if it meant having to wait longer for more Twilight stuff?


As for Jake... i hope we get to meet someone new... i know that Ang would be good for him but come on. we haven't had any really important new characters in Eclipse, and Jake might just meet someone in the forest.... maybe a girl or perhaps a wolf! he might never want to love another human again! Ahhhhh! i must not think about that!!!

ok so i finished up the host last night and wham! it has a lot of similar stuff in it. a lot at the end which might be SM's way of giving us a hint in BD. which would be a sad and happy ending... but i'm not sure... i can't wait for Midnight Sun! ugh i hope they get it out faster then next year... i can't stand to wait any longer. oh well...

do you guys think SM would give us a hint for BD in the host? i kind of do.. like a puzzle we all have to figure out... the host was awesome!

~Sarah

Yeah!!! A Twilight thread!!!

About Jacob, I like the idea of him imprinting on Angela! I don't really think too many other people would be able to handle it unless she introduced a new character. That would be okay with me too, just not as much fun!


I read The Host! I LOVED it, you should definitely give it a chance! I think if you like the Twilight series you'll like it, you can definitely tell it's her writing it!!! I don't want to give anything away, but it's really good! Trust me!

About there being a clue about Breaking Dawn in The Host...I don't think so. She did write Twilight, New Moon, and Eclipse with a younger audience in mind, so I don't think she would expect her readers to follow her through The Host. While yes, they are both love stories, I don't think they're connected in any way. I guess she may have done it without realizing it...but I just don't think she'd do that. I just think that she might want her books to sound differently so people don't get tired of reading her, you know?

Okay, I know I was away for a long time, but I feel the need to defend myself.
I know my post was hella long, but I did explain in that that I’m aware that every story under the sun has been done. I’ve been reading mythology since I was seven, and been able to connect the dots of similarities since I was about ten, aided greatly from my sister who encouraged me to always think when I was reading a book or watching a movie. And I have taken lit classes and learned about the origins of certain types of stories, beauty and beast legends for example. But, as I said in my post, what I believe makes a story worth it is how it’s presented.
And the mentions of Star Trek’s story lines coming from Shakespeare, I knew that already. Just like I know that Star Wars borrows heavily from Flash Gordon, and Roswell took from the X-Files, which makes sense, seeing as they had writers and directors in common. I’m also not going to list the other comparisons that I believe Twilight has to InuYasha, but there’s way more than I mentioned. If you want to see them yourself, read the series, which I would honestly recommend anyway, I think it’s great.
And I don’t think that my opinion would change if I forced myself through the other books. I’ve read the plot summaries, so I’m aware of what happens in the other books.
I mentioned a wealth of sci-fi and fantasy fiction that I enjoy, and I’m aware that it’s all been done before. Thinking about a story doesn’t kill the fun, at least not for me. When I read or watch something, I’m all in, but my mind jumps before my heart. I know that Harry Potter himself could be compared and measured up against all matter of heroes, from King Arthur, to Frodo, to Peter Parker…and I do that on my own. But I still love the story anyway. If I’m able to use a story as escapism, I need to feel that the story is a wonderful place filled with relatable characters.
I probably would have been able to over look all of Twilight’s similarities to other fiction I love if I believed that the characters where worth it. I’ve always been a girl who cares more for character devolvement than furthering the actual plot. PoA and HBP are my favorite Harry Potter books. And I also allow myself to forgive crappy or useless story lines if I am emotionally invested in the characters, I’ll laugh and cry with them, and am more than happy to. But with Twilight there is this huge road block to allow myself to care or even like the story as a whole, and that’s Bella.
She is probably the weakest female protagonist I’ve ever viewed. I don’t expect her to pick up any swords and lead an army, I’m aware that not every female character can’t be Buffy, and let’s face it, the world of fiction would be boring if that were the case, but I digress. I am used to female characters matching up to a certain standard, and my thinking has been shaped greatly, I’ll admit, by feminist creators. Even though I don’t personally see myself as a feminist, I have respect for them. Joss Whedon, Buffy the Vampire Slayer’s creator, has often said that he’s a feminist, so has JK Rowling. I said I’ve been watching Star Trek since I was a wee one, Star Trek’s heart and soul is tackling social issues, and equality of the sexes is given a fair amount of time. I simply can not wait for the Sex and the City movie, which I don’t think I need to explain about how feminist issues are a part of that show. I was also influenced by the writers of my favorite childhood movie, Aladdin. Where the female character wanted a life of her own more than she wanted to be a princess. The writers I speak of are Ted Elliot and Terry Rossio, who may not be feminists, but they clearly respect women as equals. This pair also wrote Pirates of the Caribbean, and I could go on and on about Elizabeth Swann’s complexity and great strength.
So to turn this thing around and make a point, Bella falls way short of my standard. People in response to my post have said she has goals that don’t have to do with Edward. What are they exactly, did I miss them? I know that not every girl knows what they want to be when they grow up, my sister and cousin being examples, and neither of them have known their course schedules since play group, but they at least had an idea about what they want to do. I bet that most people are like that, they have an idea. I expect Bella to have an idea, vague as it may be.
Another thing about her character that I couldn’t buy into is that she has no real relationships with anyone at the beginning of the story, no one she can talk to, who knows who she really is inside, she even keeps a wall between her and her mom. I can name 5 people right of the bat who I know knows me, the way I really am.
Probably the biggest hits against Bella’s character for me are in the second book how she falls apart after Edward leaves. I know she lost her love and all, and it’s tragic of course. But we’re all suffering all the time, every person on this thread, every person on this planet, we all have pain. It’s my philosophy that what makes a person great or brave or whatever word you want to use, is when that person rises above their pain, to keep fighting. In spite of it, or because of it, to keep on moving, keep on living. I was depressed myself for about two years in middle school, I was able to rise above my pain, and in my case, I was able to do it on my own.
So even in the depths of my own personal experience, that has little to do with what literature I like, I can’t bring myself to enjoy Twilight.

It's OK Amyrat, you don't need to keep flogging the horse, it's dead. We get it, nothing is going to make you like the books just as nothing you say is going to stop us from enjoying the books in a way which you obviously are unable to.

Not everyone has the same opinion, I have come across others that don't like the books for what ever reason, but what they do like is the world that has risen up around them. The comerarderie, the communities, the strange banter that women have when talking about a cute guy And that's great. You don't need to explain yourself anymore...really.

Oh so much to say but as Elaine said the horse is dead...decaying badly if you wish so I will stick to these points that stay mainly to Twilight.

That is what is interesting about Bella. She is not the stereotypical Protagonist. She is ordinary and awkward and that is exactly what the author wants her to be. She wants to connect with the ordinary and awkwardness in her readers that even the most extraordinary things can still happen to "normal" people. It is difficult to broaden our minds when they are well trained to knowing what we like/don't like and expect from a book we read.


Again, this is brilliant of SM in trying to connect with her audience. There are tons of individuals who have no clue. All they see is what they want in the immediate future and Bella does this. She wants to be turned into a vampire. She of course is thinking that it will allow herself and Edward to be together forever but as we have seen a vampire and his/her partner can be seperated by death and if Edward is to die, then Bella would have to carry on alone for eternity. What connects for me is that I really didn't figure out what I wanted to do with my life as far as a career seriously until about a year and a half ago. This does not make me weak or unintelligent at all. And may I say that what I have discovered is that it wasn't on the path of careers that I was on. If I or my parents had expected me to have an idea at the age of 18, I am sure I would have been forced to declare a major or some kind of path that would have made me unhappy or wasted money on a college degree that I would be rendering useless right now. Not every woman factual or fictional is the strong, independent type with a clear plan and Type A personality.


This isolation is a wonderful way to introduce a character. She is new not only to the school, but the city and to this man who is her father that she just can't connect too. I don't know too many individuals who move to an new area and automatically invest their souls into people they don't trust yet. It is a scary time. It is this aspect that makes her vulnerability to Edward and Alice so endearing. As for hiding from her mother, I know that is a classic defensive mechanism for teens. She doesn't want her mom to worry and the relationship with her mother was a bit backwards anyway with Bella usually being the voice of reason while her mom was a bit more spontaneous. Bella distanced herself from her mom and forced her to live her own life. She did what she had to do to give her mom a life and in doing that found a life of her own choosing.


Oh this was fantastic! I understood completely what it was to lose and feel like life was pointless. That sinking feeling in the pit of ones stomach that spreads over the entire being is such a familiar sensation in my own life that I connected with Bella's pain immediately. I connected, even if I didn't like it, with the fact that she turned to Jacob as comfort. Her pain was real and tangible for the audience.
Not everyone can pull themself out of such a place alone. Some people need to go through the process and the process for Bella, as heartwrenching as it was, was a necessary part of the characters' development and the storylines development. In my opinion, Bella is stronger now. She stands up to Edward and tells him exactly what she wants. She is proactive and feels the need to do something to help protect the ones she loves and that includes the Pack and the Coven as well as her Dad.

And we don't blacklist people for not liking something! At least i don't. My brother can't stand Harry Potter, but we still get along. Not every book is liked by every person, and I think we can all be okay with that!



Sorry for quoting the big piece there, but I didn't want to break it up!

Here's the reason I don't really go along with that. When Jacob pushes and disrespects Bella, he's looking out for himself. He's after his own selfish motives and not looking out for her at all. When Edward denies her something she thinks she wants, it's because he is looking out for her best interest. He [i]knows/[i] what it is to give up humanity, and he wants her to make sure she knows what she's wanting to give up as well. When he denies her the physical aspects of a relationship; more than her virtue; he's more afraid of hurting her physically. He could kill her if he wasn't careful, and, let's face it, in those situations - careful is difficult.

When Edward leaves her, he believes that it's best for her. He's hurting himself just as much as he's hurting her; we just don't see it (yet). I don't see his actions as disrespectful of her at all, perhaps it shows just how much respect he has for her.

Yeah, he's rough around the edges on how he shows it - and he could take the time to explain it to her - but she wouldn't even try to understand his decisions or why he would choose differently. She's just operating on her very vibrant feelings for him. Not that I don't think she's thought things through, because she has, but he has more first hand knowledge of what she's going to be putting herself through, and it's not something he wishes on anyone.

When Jacob acts, he might say that he has her best interest in mind - but his intention is to be with Bella - no matter what. His motives are more selfish and less interested in what is best for Bella. It's best for Jacob, and there's no way around it. It might be best for Bella, and Edward even acknowledges this - except that Bella adamantly refuses him at almost every turn - until she is so disrespectfully pushed over the edge.

So, no. Edward is not disrespectful of Bella.

On to another thought. Edward is always so interested in Bella not giving up any of her human experiences; wants to her know what it all feels like as a human because, apparently, it never means anything once you've changed. However, something about Edward doesn't sit right with me about it. He's the one who wants a wedding because he's been dreaming about getting married for so long - wondering what the experience would be like. This, for me, just kind of negates a lot of his prior arguments as to why she should experience everything as a human first. It's just funny and slightly hypocritical to me.

What do you mean that your brother doesn't like Harry Potter? How dare he, what a complete travesty

I agree with you about Edward...he



In fact I said the following in an earlier posts






I think this is down to identifying with the characters. If you can't see a little of yourself with a character no matter how small, you will never be able to find the characters worth it. Bella, has all the insecurities that I had. Not completely comfortable in her own skin, unsure of the direction her life would take, hopeless at sports. I was that girl, I didn't find my career until I was...quite old. I tried and tested many things before I found the one thing I think I was meant to do...I'm still not sure that I won't change direction at some time, but that's human nature.



Have you never lost a love? Or thought that you were so in love with someone that nothing would ever tear you apart? No..well I have and it hurts, completely and utterly when they say they don't want to be will you any more. I have that hole and it never got filled. It truly was as if someone died, so that SM wrote down that pain that I have felt was extraordinary to me. It was breathtaking, as if she had heard my own personal thoughts and feelings. But then that just goes to show, there are millions of people out there that have shared Bellas pain, and I think that's good to know.

...and talking of holes, I left the utterly brilliant Supermassive Black Hole off my list for my soundtrack! Brillo pads!

[Mod Deleted]
Sorry if i hurt anybodys feelings but we don't want to start the whole Twilight is the boom thing again. I suggest if you don't like the series then make a non-supporters of the Twilight series thread. You wouldn't want us to come in randomly and post [Mod Deleted]is that understood? i hope so.


now has anybody thought what would the books be like now if Bella fell in love with Jacob first? i have no idea. i got the idea from this song: Where would we be now- Good Charolette

a song for Jacob at the end of Eclipse is Break Apart her Heart by Good Charolette. It when Jake breaks Bella's heart again by telling her his is still going to fight the vampires.

Mod Edit: I have deleted your comments asking for non fans not to post here. Please check your inbox for Owls waiitng soon. Thanks

I never really thought about it well I guess she might have chosen Jake over Edward if she fell for Jake first. I think it would depend on if what Jake said held true about him being her own sunshine or air or whatever and Edward is more like a drug to her than anything (I got pretty mad when I read that part). Had she fallen for Jake first I dont think I would have liked this series nearly as much because I think no matter what I woud always be in love with the awesomeness of Edward and Jake gets on my nerves. I dont think Jake respects Bella nearly as much as Edward but if the roles had been reversed maybe Jake would be the respectful one and Edward the less respective one. Maybe since Jake didnt have the assurance Edward has in Bella's commitment to them he felt the best way to try was make a move but I know is someone did that to me I would probably break more than just my hand. I doubt Edward could be disrespectful though because he is pretty much perfect and has lived about 100 years so he had plenty of time to mature and Jake still has some work to do.


Oh and by the way I like the song Break Apart her Heart by Good Charlotte

Oh Nevillesgirl, tell me you didn’t really mean this the way it sounds …



Edward consents to Bella hanging out with Jacob? He allows it only because he’s convinced Bella and Jacobs relationship is platonic? Who died and left Edward in charge of Bella’s life? He’s neither her parent nor her guardian; he does not hold title to her. Even if they were married, while they have a responsibility to each other, Edward has no right to permit or forbid Bella any association.

A couple of things bother me about this vampire lifestyle. Both Nevillesgirl and Passerby stated that Edward didn’t choose to live as a vampire, and from what Rosalie says in Eclipse and New Moon, that appears to be true. She claims she didn’t have a choice, that she would never have chosen this life, and she really doesn’t like it. My question is, why would Carlisle, who’s compassion is his strong point, do this to another human being? By whose authority does Carlisle condemn another being to becoming a vampire? It appears that neither Esme, Edward, or Rosalie were in a position to refuse Carlisle when he transformed them. Is it right to force anyone to live, regardless of what that life might be? What if they didn't want it? Right now Bella wants to be a vampire, but forever can be a very long time. As Rosalie stated in Eclipse, there’s no going back to becoming mortal. What if Bella discovers that living forever is not what she expected?

If I remember correctly Carlisle changed Edward because his mother asked him to do anything in his power to save Edward from death, I doubt she knew he was going to turn her son into a vampire but he granted her wish. The only reason Carlisle ever changed anyone was to save their lives maybe they would have rather died but he made the choice to change them because he thought it was for the best.

I think the simple answer is Carlisle was lonely. Edwards mother presented him with her son to save and he knew that this was the only saving that was possible for him. He was knocking on deaths door. We're talking about vampires here so I don't think ethics come into it, but if they did Carlisle only chose those who were breathing their last. It was death or immortality, he chose to give them immortality.

One also has to wonder if at some point Esme, Edward and Rosalie have all called Carlisle up on this. Carlisle admits that he tried all ways to end his life when he was first turned. I'm sure he would have made sure the others knew that death wouldn't come easy to them...suicide was not an option. We know of the one time Edward went to the Volturi to end his life and we , I think that we can be sure that the others had never contemplated such a thing. If that's the case perhaps Rosalies fears for Bella and her own feelings about being a vampire are more pronounced because Bella has been in such close proximity to them all .This is something that none of them have never experienced. Yes they live amongst humans but they never really interact with them (with the exception of Carlisle) , they keep their distance. Perhaps when Bella was not around them, it was only a passing thought for Rosalie. Just a thought.