Fans may be aware that JK Rowling and Warner Brother have brought a lawsuit against RDR Books to stop them publishing the Harry Potter Lexicon.

Steven Vander Ark believes that his encyclopedia does not violate her copyrights.

JK Rowlings is due in court today, to put across here point of view in a case that is set to last the best part of this week.

This article by the Associated Press gives more detail on the case. In the article it states that JKR is in fact a fan of Vander Arks HP Lexicon site and that she 'feels like her words were stolen'.

Personally I have gained a lot of information from the website, but must say I side with JKR on this one. Any publication of an encyclopedia type book should be left to the one who knows all the facts. That is J K Rowling herself.

What do other VTM members think of this.

Edit: JKR has testified in court saying that her efforts to stop this publication are 'crushing her creativity'. She says that this book (by Vander Ark) 'is wholsale theft of 17 years of her hard work' and 'he has simply taken it and copied it...It is sloppy and laazy and takes my work wholesale'.

She also said that the possibility that parents would part with their well earned cash was a travesty.JKR spends her breaks in the seclusion of a jury room, away from die hard Harry Potter fans. Further information can be read here.

I am totally appalled at this! Like you said etphonehome...the only one who knows enough to write an encyclopedia is JKR! It's her world...sure I can write an encyclopedia...but it's just going to be filled with info that she has already shared with her fans...there is so much we don't know and it can only come from her! I read on the front page of VTM that she might not write the encyclopedia. Let me just say that if this GUY has caused her not to write the encyclopedia or any other creative works...her fans are going to be outraged..me included . I've been waiting and waiting for her encyclopedia. I hope she wins this lawsuit...because what Vander Ark is doing is wrong . He just wants to jump on the money train...and I'm sorry but it left several years ago!

I have to agree with JKR on this one. RDR Books has already admitted to copyright infringement against her and Warner Bros., but are trying to pass it off as a "reference book" and charge $24.95 for it. I can see if Vander Ark and/or RDR Books added some commentary and insight, but from what I can tell, it's just all her books/interviews cut and pasted into a "sloppy" book.

One other point of interest... JKR "acknowledged she once bestowed an award on Vander Ark's Web site because she wanted to encourage a very enthusiastic fan.
But she said she "almost choked on my coffee" one morning when she realized Vander Ark had warned others not to copy portions of his Web site. She said she now has second thoughts about all the encouragement she has given to online discussions and Web sites devoted to her books." (quoted from the news article... not my work ) I think it's laughable that Vander Ark would not want anyone copying his work, yet he is trying to make a buck off all of Jo's hard work. This is the main reason I hope RDR Books does not win this case.

I realize there are many reference guides out there for Shakespeare, Mark Twain, Charles Dickens, etc., and a reference guide for Harry Potter would be useful. However, the main argument against RDR Book's HP Encyclopedia is that there is very little commentary or original ideas/insights. JKR points this out in some of her testimony and I think this is an important point.

If this case is settled in favor or Vander Ark and RDR Books, this could mean the end of using any copyrighted material on HP sites, especially the use of graphics and fan fics. Let's just hope for the best.

Back in the weeks leading up to the DH release there was a book in Borders that was produced by Mugglenet. I wish I'd bought it because I don't remember what it was called or what it was about. And the Borders website doesn't even have a Search feature which is annoying. But I'm guessing either JK didn't know about this one or it didn't infringe on any laws. There was another one that was a double book, one cover was arguments for Snape being good and the other about him being bad, which I would imagine had all the information to date on Snape plus reader theories.....surely that one infringed though? I don't get why she's going after Lexicon if so many others have done something of the same thing. I get that no-one wants the Encyclopedia written by anyone but JK but if her fans are loyal wouldn't they shun the book anyway, not wanting to read old news? Seems like a silly case to me. I think her saying that this ordeal was 'crushing her creativity' is a bit pathetic. It's like a cop out for why she either hasn't started yet or why she's stopped. And a ploy to make the judge side with her. I won't be surprised if she wins and I won't be surprised if she loses.

So the case has come to tears! On Monday JKR had to compose herself when she came on the edge of tears when giving her testomony. Then yesterday it was the turn of Vander Ark who burst into tears ..'Sorry,' he said, regaining his composure,'It's been difficult because there has been a lot of critisism, obviously, and that was never the intention.But it's been an important part of my life for nine years.' Later when JKR's encyclopedia is mentioned, he said 'Ifor one can't wait to read it'.

I think the thing in question here is his right to publish copyrighted material. Why does RDR think that he has the right to do this when others can't. THe names used in Harry Potter are the property of JKR so to use them to make money is against the law. It would be the same if I were to all of a sudden start making t'shirts with the logo of this website, I wouldn't be able to because the copyright belongs to JKR/WB.

THe book that you mention about Snape is not JKR's material, it's the opinion of someone on a character. This is different in that Vander Arks book would be an encyclopedia which including every little piece of information, name, background, place, spell etc invented by JKR. None of it would be his invention, or his own opinion.

His face lit up when an attorney for RDR books informed him that Rowling had complained that the Lexicon had given the wrong etymology for the door-opening charm "Alohomora."

Vander Ark had speculated that the word was a combination of the Hawaiian word "aloha" and the Latin word "mora." Rowling explained that the word actually came from a West African dialect.

"Really!" Vander Ark said, his eyes alight. "Sorry. That's very exciting stuff for someone like me."

Site problems allowing, I'll try to keep you up to date with the trial.

Edit: Since I made the earlier post, I have found this statement from Warner Brothers.



Sorry I cannot provide links but they don't seem to work today.

I believe the MuggleNet book and the book about whether Snape could be trusted or had betrayed were books about theories of what was going to happen. These books contained lots of research and though they did reference JKR's work quite a bit, they also contained the authors' own opinions and thoughts. These books were basically a very long essay, similar to what you did in high school or college, where you had to compare and contrast certain ideas or where you had to argue an opinion while referencing specific passages from the book. I guess it's a lot like a term paper.

The arguments JKR and her attorneys are making is that RDR Books is not publishing an encyclopedia with reference material and original thoughts, but that it's just taking things straight from JKR's works. In recent testimony it was revealed that some of the original thoughts weren't even close to what JKR had intended:


Even if JKR had not planned on writing her own encyclopedia, the one that RDR Books is wanting to publish just isn't good enough. I can see how she would not want her hard work exploited like that.

The judge in the JKR?WB vs RDR Books case says it could go either way accoeding to the Wall Street Journals law blog.

A literature expert on the side of JKR had her testimony unravelled by the lead attorney for the defendent, which doesn't bode well.

In this first part of the blog, it is said that a partial settlement had been reached and that was only on the false advertising and deceptive trade practices claim. The settlement means only that neither JKR's name or her quote endorsing the HP Lexicon will appear on the front cover of the book version of the Lexicon.

The blogs make interesting reading for the patient who can unravel the legal jargon from the basic facts that the fans will want to know. Some of the reader comments make an interesting read. I do hope that no-one from this site will be boycotting all HP products!!

Does anyone know if a verdict has been given on this case.

It seems to me that Rowling will win this case. If she doesn't, fan web sites will be in jeopardy of being pulled out of the internet. I can see Rowling doing this, like Anne Rice did with fan fictions based on her books a few years back. She essentially said, "no way (will anyone write stories on the internet)!" (paraphrased).

The thought did occur to me that IF Rowling loses OR wins this case, the fan web sites, in particularly the fan fiction, will be taken off the internet. Notice I said, 'OR win'. At the moment this trial is a double edged sword. Rowling is extremely protective of her works and may now realize that she shouldn't have been so generous with giving permission to create fan web sites. Hindsight is 20/20. I hope for the sake of those fans who just like to talk Harry Potter, these sites remain open and free of charge.

Not settlement has been agreed on except that which I mentioned above and the following counts are cited in this case...

-Copyright Infringement
-Federal Trademark Infringement
-Unfair Competition and False Designation of Origin
-False Advertising
-Deceptive Trade Practices
-Unfair Competition
-Declaratory Judgment Regarding Copyright Infringement

JKR has already said that she regrets the freedom she has given fans and I agree that the impact on the internet fanbase could be catastrophic if she decided to pull the plug on fan fiction. To stop discussion sites like this one, I feel that she would be impinging on our right to the freedom of speech if she pulled the plug. But then she would have a hard time doing so afterall she couldn't stop fans forming there own on line discussion groups, we are still allowed to talk about anything we like ...that's what the freedon of speech is all about.

I do sort of feel sorry for Steven Vander Ark. He had 9 years of being a fan in which he was asked to turn the site into book form. Was it his naivety that brought him into the realms of RDR books?

The thing is with his book is that if it was going to be a copy of his website, who in their right mind would buy it for $25 when then can look at the website for free? At one time it was mentioned that some essays exploring theories would be appearing in the book but it turns out that was not true.

THe trial ended yesterday with JKR handing an Olive Branch to Vander Ark saying that she never wanted to stop him writing his own guide, only that he should change it so that it did not include so much of her work.

Tou an read an Article here in the NY Times and another in USA Today.

Now we await the verdict after the judge gave the lawyers three weeks to file more papers before he makes his decision.

I haven't really followed this, but everything I've heard from the very beginning has simply provoked one reaction in me: "Steve, grow up."

Really. Tears? And how arrogant/naive do you have to be to think you can publish someone else's idea without adding anything substantial of your own? I would be VERY surprised if JKR lost this case, and it would reflect very sadly on the state of common sense in this world.

I really don't think she would do herself a favour pulling the plug on discussion forums, but I can see her putting a stop to fanfiction. It would be a very sad day, and Steve Vander Ark would never be able to show his face at Potter gatherings, ever, again. Silly man. He'd better change his name, too, I think...

I think it's pretty impossible for her to pull any plug on fanfiction. I mean, whether it's put on the web or not, people are going to write. People are going to show what they've written to their friends. The fact that fanfiction for HP cannot be published, and each author (responsibly) puts in a disclaimer that they don't write for any money and that they are not JKR and do not own any rights to anything HP related. . .she can't really stop it. Unless she's prepared to beg to every author. We make nothing from writing, it's just the fun of the beast. If she tries, I honestly think it will go poorly.

Also, I do support JKR about the encyclopedia, but I can also see where Vander Ark is coming from. He's devoted a lot of time to his site, and it really is quite informational. The problem is that now he wants to publish it and make scads of money with it! I don't think having a fan encyclopedia would be so bad, really, but the fact that she's already talked of creating an encyclopedia - and that her goals are for charity - makes his stance very weak. As far as her suggestion that he still does it with not so much of her information. Er, how? The book is about the HP world that she created! How would he even begin to write an HP encyclopedia without using her created material? Once she asked him to cease and desist, he should have put his hands up and surrendered. Continue with the site, we all visit it, but give up the publication of the book. He's no place to go but down.

Jane Austen never had this trouble. And we can actually publish and make money from fanfiction with her creations!

I wonder what the exact agreement Vander Ark had with RDR? Perhaps the terms of their agreement, prior to these lawsuits, is why VanderArk has not raised the white flag to Rowling's C&D.

If RDR approached Steve, then it may follow that they advised him on the legal ramifications (or lack thereof...) on publishing a print version of the site. Their agreement may bind Steve to RDR's position in the matter which may be why common sense reasoning may not have resulted in the proper actions on his part.

If I were him, I would have jumped ship and let RDR to fend for the mess they created, but maybe Steve was legally bound to stay afloat with RDR following Rowling's C&D.

I side with Rowling on this one, but these legal precedents that touch upon the nature of derivative work and the creative rights and freedom of the public is what worries me. The archaic studio/publishing infrastructure and the corresponding laws that support their business need serious re-evaluation in the current age of the internet and User Generated Content.

But as we all know, lawyers prattle has little do to with what's right and wrong, and is really about who wins and loses...

I side with the publishing company, and not because I’ve worked for one for many years. Steve wasn’t writing a novel, he was reporting. Jo is truly mental, sobbing on the stand, claiming her ability to write has been destroyed by this case is silly to the max! What a waste of court time. In the normal business world, the publishers would’ve come to an agreement without all this inane drama. You’d go to lunch together, promise to donate a percentage to charity, make a golf date and talk business trash.

I honestly don't think Steve was doing for the money. I feel he is a complete fan and knows the day will come when that site will be gone. Best to leave a printed record and bow out.

Ofcourse he was doing it for money. No-one would put themselves through this if it wasn't going to be worthwhile financially in the long term.

Have you ever been cross examined on a witness stand? Well I have, and it's one of the most emotional things I have ever done on my life. The lawyer questioning me made me sound like a complete idiot and I was a jumble of nerves. I completely fell apart and I had no reason to. Lawyers are trained to break you. It makes no odds if this was over a murder or a book deal, they don't care.

As you said, Steve Vander Ark was not writing a novel, he was writing a reproduction of his website which isn't a story made up from his own imagaination. Every single person, paragraph, quote, spell etc came from the imagaination of JKR. There is nothing original in it, that's why she took him to court. If I were her, I'd be upset too. I'd wonder whether there was any point in continuing to write if somebody, even a good fan, was just given free reign to muddle up every word and sell it as their own work.

On TLC, they just reported that Orson Scott Card commented on this trial, and claimed that Jo's "hypocrisy is so thick you can hardly breathe."

A lot of fans aren't pleased with that comment, but I'd have to say that while Card's comments were a bit harsh, they weren't unfounded. Here is what I said on TLC:

Full transcripts of the trial can now be read on line thanks to Stanford Law School.


Read them here.

TLC reported the comments of quite a lot of people, this was just one. If you search the internet you will find that comments vary from those who are against JKR to the extreme and those who are practically bereft at the thought of anyone doing a number on JKR. It's a strange little world!

I know nothing of copyright laws so I'm going to ask here. Yesterday I saw a HP PS/SS book in a white cover with an image of the original cover on it. (Kind of like one of the versions of HBP) It was a complete reproduction of PS/SS but the Author of this one had written an intro all about JKR. Her name wasn't on the front as the Author, his was. The entire book is PS/SS except for the first few pages. Is this copyrighting? Or plagurism?

I'd call it plagiarism. Copying or stealing someone else's work exactly word for word and passing it off as your own.Although under UK law it is covered by copyright law...



From this you can understand why JKR is going for the copyright infringement as it covers how Vander Ark intended to produce his Lexicon perfectly.

In the US it goes against the Copyright Laws too. You can't take someone else's work and use it to do something if it is copyrighted unless you get permission from them or the publisher in writing.

~Leja~

Jo’s four houses of Hogwarts is a complete rip-off of an executive management system. CMOE developed it in the 1980’s, they own it, not her. Maybe they should be suing.

Now that charity book she 'wrote' was just 'Arabian Nights' stories. Change the magi to wizards, draw some doodles and chuck some gemstones on the front cover and you've got Beedle & the Bard! Was it orginal? Nope, but the 100 year copywrite expired on the tales.

I’m not sure what Jo intends to accomplish with this case, but it’s putting her in a bad light. It's now on the record with the judge saying Jo wrote gibberish, Steve needs to grow up, and both need to settle differences outside his court. In the perfect and beautiful world the two would collaborate and create a perfect and beautiful encyclo-lexi-pedia-con.

*sigh*

I tend to agree with etphonehome, this is definitely infringing on JKRs work and Vander Ark should have known better. Of course, he DID know better since he initially refused RDRs request to turn the Lexicon into an encyclopedia. After RDR came back telling him that it WASN'T in violation of copyright laws because this would be a "reference" book, Vander Ark agreed but stipulated in the contract that RDR acknowledges their role in this and will represent Vander Ark in court (and cover all legal costs) should he ever get sued. He knew exactly what he was doing.

Aside from this, my complaint is that JKR knows the HP world better than anyone. She is the only one who knows the "origins" of the names, spells, incantations and magical creatures (origins being how she came up with them as well as what their roots are, Latin, French, Japanese, etc., and what, if any, their basis in mythology or legend may be). No matter how big a fan you may be of Harry Potter and his wonderful, magical world, and no matter how much research and time you put into knowing all there is to know about this world that JKR created you will never ever know all there is to know. You can guess and may in fact guess correctly about where the name Giverna comes from or the word origins of Alohamora, but until JKR herself tells us, it is total speculation. Can you imagine spending $24.95 on Vander Ark's encyclopedia and taking to heart all he has put in it then finding out when JKR releases her own encyclopedia that much of what you THOUGHT was true is in fact wrong (JKR has already said his background info and origins on "Alohamora" is incorrect)?

I guess my thought is that as long as the author is alive and willing to expound on his/her own work, then it should be the author's right to produce any "reference" material. There are plenty of reference works out about Shakespeare and Hemmingway, the Bible and mythology, but these were written AFTER the authors were no longer able to write their own. Plus, most of the definitive reference works were done after MUCH research yet there is still debate over certain facts and figures. How much better would a Harry Potter encyclopedia be if it were written by the actual Harry Potter author? I'm just sayin'...

I think... that it wouldn't really make much sense if Steve VanderArk published his website. For one thing, Harry Potter doesn't belong to him, so he needs JK's permission. Looks like JK doesn't really want to give him permission, so he shouldn't do it.

For another thing, some of that information on his site isn't really correct. Like some of you said, he sometimes tells the site viewers different origins of the spell names then the ones that JK Rowling had them originate from. What would happen if the whole world read that book, and we got false information from it? That wouldn't be right.

Okay... How many agree that an encyclopedia for Harry Potter would be so much better if JK Rowling did it? She wrote the series. She knows every single thing about the subject. She created everything! Why would someone want the information from a fan who gets some facts wrong and might not have caught everything? He doesn't know the details about the characters that weren't in the book. He doesn't know about the things that were cut out. Who does? JK Rowling!

I think JK is right. He shouldn't publish the website.

I don't know if he was doing it for money or not, but it seems to me Rowling is definitely doing all this stuff for more money. I mean look at Tales of Beedle and Bard! There were supposed to be seven copies, and seven copies only and suddenly she's publishing it! I've looked at lists, it was at the number one spot. I've also heard there's going to be a HP animated cartoon? Give me a break, she's embarked on the search for more money. Yeah she gave all that money to charity, she's the second richest woman in entertainment and she's richer than the queen of England. If anyone can afford it she can.

I think VanderArk should've written his own stuff, commentary on how he came to the conclusions he came to. I think his book could've been interesting, if he could explain why he said what he did and explain where he got his ideas from. After all Rowling is taking her sweet time with this encyclopedia.

It would be stupid of her to try to forbid fanfics, HP roleplays, discussion forums, anything. I would be boycotting all her stuff if she ever did that.

Maybe I'm the only one that hasn't heard ... but how is that law suit going anyway?

I have to say that Steve went about this all wrong (hindsight is 20/20 after all), but I don't think he had any nefarious motives in mind. If he sought legal help prior to publishing, then I think he was given bad advice.

I don't think Steve is the greedy one here either, but I do think that Rowling is.

I was thinking the same thing. I thought that the verdict would have come out by now. Maybe it has and that's why JKR decided to publish Beedle the Bard to pay for the legal fees etc

I'm pretty sure that we'd have heard if they had come to a decision.

I could've sworn that I heard somwhere that JKR lost the case to Lexicon and that now she has to pay something lol and maybe you're right Elaine; Maybe that's why she decided to publish Beedle the Bard but come to think about it she is at the top of the list of either the most influential or richest women; NEXT TO OPERA

I think that in an ideal world all fansites should be free to release books like the HP Lexicon wants to. But i don't think that's realistic, especially when that release would then be in direct conflict with a book the JK Rowling wants to publish. Obviously she is the creator of the series and she created all the information that the Lexicon wants to publish. So i think she deserves the creative control which will allow her to prevent the Lexicon from publishing their book.

At the end of the day if JKR wants the book to not be published, for the reason that she is going to release another book with loads of information in it, then we shouldn't jeopardise that possibility by doing anything against her wishes.

On our TV this morning they said JK had a win in the Lexicon case. Full article here.

Seems like justice works after all. I firmly believed Vander Ark was doing to gain profit, if he wasn't why continue ahead with it? And why go to court? Why not just give up? Guilty people always fight.

Yipee!

I just saw it on cnn.com and rushed here! I'm glad it came out in Jo's favour! It's really wrong what Vander Ark was doing...even if he's doing out of his love for HP! Jo gave everyone the liberty to write fanfics and all, this is really a bad way of returning her gesture!

You're so very much right Triad, justice works after all... I second your words..'guilty people always fight' very rightly said!

That is justice. Ofcourse, who wants somebody's work be used to advance their own interest.

Mod Edit: Please note that short posts are not permitted in this area. Please elaborate in future.

I think this controversy came out the right way with JKR prevailing. However, the court was careful to limit its ruling, so this case becomes fact specific. It left the door open for others to use their creativity and possibly write a related book. It will probably become a moot point once JKR comes out with her own lexicon.

I am glad that JK Rowling won her case against the Lexington, in my opinion if anyone should be printing an encyclopedia to Harry Potter it should be JK herself, she would definately have more insite about her own characters.

According to the Lexicon's website, the book will be published next month. You can find the announcement here. That came as a big suprise to me. I thought the book was dead. According to the update, the book was edited to comply with the Judge's ruling.

Without seeing the book, I am leaning to siding with Vander Ark on this. How many authors have written companions to The Lord of the Rings? Those books were all legal. Why was JKR's books so different that reference books could not be written about them? I guess when the book comes out next month we will see what the judge ruled as acceptable.

I think there are two issues here:

i) is it right for Vander Ark to publish this Lexicona? and
ii) is is going to be a work that will be, a real and accurate lexicon?

I tend to agree with Channeling Ginny and Ginerva Molly Weasley, who argue that:....

a) while an author is still alive and if it is within a reasonable time frame, he/she should have the first right to produce such a work, and
the author is, especially where a work of fiction is involved, the only person who is able to both give an accurate history of the work and who is able to expand on ANYTHING that is not already written, as a parasitic oportunist (sorry, am I being a little harsh?) would not be able to expand on anything whatsoever apart from what has already been written.

Imagine how fatal it would be for the Ark version to expound on a particular issue, and then be contradicted completely once JKR's lexicon (for it will SURELY happen) is published. So, the Arlk version would not be able to truthfully develop any thing further about the characters or any of the fiction, for fear that they wouldn't be right.

And, who would buy the ARK version, on the slim hope that it was going to compliment the "true" version when that is published. It would be like buying a rip off Gucci or Prada, it just wouldn't be the same.

It is patently obvious that JKR will, when she publishes, go out of her way to completely discredit anything the Ark version states, that is not already on the record, so who would want that Ark version in their library?

Steve of Vander Ark, or whoever you are, go to bed earlier, take lots of Vitamin B, eat fish (it is good for the brain) and come up with your own story. JKR has every right to be dismayed, and for those of you who don't agree, think how you would feel if it was happening to you. Not the best, I think.

Anyway, I usually am much more glib and insincere when posting so please don't think I am a stick in the mud, its just that this one does get under my skin.

So,......

I think you're right, grantland1111. It's different when you think about companion volumes to LOTR and this case. J.R.R. Tolkien is dead. There is no way that he could contradict what someone else said about his work, unless it has already been published and stated that it's different. But JKR is still alive and kicking. SHE would be the one who knows the Harry Potter universe inside and out, and knows what things are true and what aren't. Not that I'm saying people can't publish books about HP, but in the case of something like a Lexicon, she's the one who's the ultimate authority on it. And if she wishes to publish her own Lexicon, well...that's her right as the author.

I side with Jo. She has worked incredibly hard and someone comes along trying to make money off her work. Yes, he presumably put a lot of work into it but not as much as Jo put into the whole series. She has used her popularity and earnings to help charities, even writing three books soley for the purpose of helping good causes - Fantastic Beasts, Quidditch Through the Ages, Beedle the Bard, plus she also helped write One City along with three other Edinburgh authors.

The man who is in court is simply stealing Jo's work. It is copyrighted and he does not own publishing rights.
I am writing my own Harry Potter encyclopaedia simply because sometimes I think of something and wonder what book it is in or have difficulty finding it but I am not planning on publishing it, it is more a reference guide for me. But that will not stop me buying anything Jo decides to publish because I could never include the many things unknown to Potterfandom that she would hopefully publish and besides I am strongly against stealing other people's work and piracy.
And as the original person said - leave it to the person who knows the best!