Time travel. It is one of the most complex and dangerous forms of magic we have ever seen. One would think that power over time is supreme power. Wrong. Power over time is risky... for the weilder only. Allow me to explain.

Let's say that someone died and it could have been prevented. You go back in time to stop the event. You succeed. And what happens then? Time goes all out of whack and you don't exist anymore. Why is this? An event happened to make you who you are. If that event did not happen, then you are not you anymore. If you change this event, then you have no reason to go back in time to change it. Therefore, you never went back to change it and it never was changed. You cannot change time. If you were ever to succeed in this, then you don't exist past this event that was changed seeing as an alternate universe that can never exist. Time would be irrepairable! I have no clue what the future would be like if the past was ever changed.

Hmmm...that was a little confusing. Let me try to see if I get what you're saying...

Someone died, and it's only because of their death that you're alive now. However, you didn't know this, so you went back in time to save them. Saving that person means that you would never have been born, so you wouldn't be alive to time travel and save the person, so that person would have died, so then you would have been born...

And it keeps going on in an endless cycle. Except that somehow, you exist in the past because you time-turned to back then, even though you're not necessarily alive in the present...very confusing.

Clearly, it's possible to change the past, because Harry and Hermione do it by saving Buckbeak and Sirius. I guess that since they didn't do anything to harm themselves while they were time-turning, nothing happened that affected their future selves.

I just thought of another complication when turning time. When Harry and Hermione go back in time, their "real" selves go back three hours, and return to "normal" time three hours later...at the same time that they left. Are this Harry and Hermione three hours older than they were when they left, because they experienced three hours twice? Or did they become three hours younger when they turned back, so that they were the same age when they left as when they returned? I know that three hours doesn't really matter in the course of their lives, but if someone turned back for a longer period of time, they might lose months of their life. For example, in PoA, Hermione turns back and repeats three or four hours a day Monday - Friday for ten months. That's losing about 200 hours - just over eight days. If Hermione hadn't gotten tired of taking so many classes, and she had lost eight days of her life every year for 5 years, she would have lost 40 days of her life. (That's like a second to Nicholas Flamel!) If a witch or wizard went back in time too much, could they lose years of their life from aging without actually moving forward in time?

No, no, no. The person dieing is just an example of an event that you might want to change. This event is part of your past, thereby creating the you that you are from that event. If you change any event in the past you are not the you that you are anymore. You are a different version of the you that you are because the event that made you you didn't happen. Therefore, if the event is changed, you never existed to change the event, and all time from then on is messed up completely.

Harry and Hermione did not mess up the timeline because that is what actually happened in the timeline. If no one knows the difference between the before time travel and after time travel of the same event, it will not mess up the past seeing as it was supposed to happen in the way that you "changed" it. But you didn't change it because it was supposed to be changed. Buckbeak was never killed. If you were to continuously go back in time, trying to see the very first time that history was made by that event, you would see Harry and Hermione saving him every time.

There is no beginning to these cycles, and if there is, then it's pretty messed up. These events have been repeating themselves infinately for eternity in the wizarding world seeing as to be able to travel in time in any direction, time itself must be planned by fate or some other power. It is impossible to be exact in this world because between two points, there is always another infinately small one. The same goes for time. The same event is being repeated over and over again infinately in a single second. This allows people to return to the event, therefore enableing time travel. But I do not know if you age when going back in time, nor do I know if you can go back further than several hours at a time because you are moving your body through events in time, not just one part of the body through self history as shown by the bell jars.

For the aging question, i don't think one would age. Harry and Hermione went back in time three hours to save Buckbeak; if they went back in time, wouldnt they become three hours younger even if they remembered what happened three hours earlier? They would then gain the three hours back as time came up to the present, and when they end up back where they started, wouldn't they be back age-wise where they started?

I might just be reading this wrong, but Bandoth, in your topic, you say that if one were to go back in time to change the death of someone, the death wouldnt happen, therefore in the future, the person doing the time traveling would never go back in time to stop the death, and the death would occur anyways.

But, if a person stopped a death from happening, why would the form of the person not effected by the death have to go back in time to change it again? If they changed the past, then the person that was killed would never be in the situation in which they were killed right? I mean, say someone was hit by a car at noon, but you prevented them from being at the place of the accident at the time of the accident, they wouldn't need to be saved again right?

Sorry if this doesnt make sense, but its a confusing topic

well i had thought over this 'time changing' thingy...i mean, when harry and hermione (the real ones) go back in time, they do their work, correct stuff and come back, just when the other Harry and hermione disappear...so when that other harry and hermione return,*note: the real ones are already getting one with their lives* another pair goes back in time...this way does it keep on happening? do harry and hermione still have PAIRS and PAIRS of themselves following them?? i mean, its like a cycle...it keeps on going on, doesnt it? so, im a bit confused about myself...i really dont have a solution

Actually chocobeer, you got it spot on. The event keeps happening to keep time in balance.

As for changing an event, you cannot... unless, of course, you want to ruin time from that event and forward... at least for yourself. The event that occured is what made you go back in time. If that event does not occur, why do you go back in time to change it? You don't because it never happened. Therefore, there is an endless cycle that occurs and it goes something like this.

A bad thing happens. You go back in time to change it. You succeed. Now the past you has no reason to go back in time to change it, therefore, the event occurs. You go back in time to change it. You succeed. Now the past you has no reason to go back in time to change it, therefore, the event occurs. You go back in time to change it. You succeed. Now the past you has no reason to go back in time to change it, therefore, the event occurs. You go back in time to change it.

And so on and so forth. That is why time gets messed up when it is messed with. Well, at least you get messed up if you change it.

I think that the past can be changed. I mean if Harry and Hermoine succeded in saving Sirius's and Buckbeak's life,then why can't Harry go back in time to save his godfather?! I think he can.

Nobody knew the difference between the changed past and the real past. Harry and Hermione thought that Buckbeak and Sirius were condemned, even after the past was changed, allowing them to go back in time and "correct" the already corrected events. The past was already changed the first time that they went back in time. Therefore, they just did what they were supposed to do. In a world where time travel is possible, the past, present, and future are written in stone. Do you not see? When Harry, Hermione, and Ron thought that Buckbeak was dead, future selves had already saved Buckbeak. The account of events that are in the books are not the first time that they have happened. Otherwise, they couldn't have gone back in time to save Buckbeak. In fact, the first time that anything happened was not the first time. Every event in the books has been repeated infinate times to make time travel possible. Otherwise, there would be a chance that you could travel to a time where time does not exist, thereby trapping you forever since there is no time to manipulate.

I think that the past can be changed through time travel, just that it is really difficult and dangerous for many of the reasons Bandoth has said. Also, since Rowling only shows us the timeline after it has been changed, if something has happened in the books we can be sure time travel wont be used to change it.

It would be very important not to change time so much that your past self decided not to use the Time Turner after all. I think Dumbledore's admonishment "not to be seen" wasn't just because changing time was illegal, but because of the danger from Harry and Hermione effecting their past so much they wouldn't recognize the need to time travel on the next go around. If they don't mess things up too much, then after a few time loops Past Harry and Hermione and Future Harry and Hermione will be experiencing the same events (from different perspectives) and their timeline will be looped but unbroken. At this point I think a time travel loop is successful, and the Future Traveller can move out of it as the Past Traveller is beginning their trip.

Ok, this is all very confusing, but amazingly enough, I understand it.

As to the aging question, why would they turn back in time. I think that they lost 3 hours of their life because of the time travel. If they aged back with the time, then they wouldn't be able to remember what they are suppose to do. So it only makes sence that they would be losing hours of their life.

Oh, and a big congrats to Sally-Anne Perks for doing all that math. I don't think I could've.

have any of you seen 2the time machine"? I thought that maybe you had got the idea from there, Bandoth.
The thing is that in the movie, the main character´s fiancé dies, so hi builds a time machine to go back in tim,e and save her. he does, but dies instead like 10 minutes later. That is because the reason that made him builkd the time machine and go back in time is his fiancé's death, so, if her death never happened he wouldn´t have built the machine, consequently wouldn´t have gone back in time, which means that he wouldn´t have saved her so she would have died anyway. Do you get what I mean??? it´s just to picture an example of this complicated time-trravel thing

Actually, that's exactly where I got the idea. The past can be changed, but only if the past and future results look exactly the same to the past. If someone died, there would need to be someone that looked exactly like that person to die so that the person that saved them would save them again after they are saved. Eh, confusing, yes. Just hope that you understand it. What Hallia said is just what I meant with the past not being able to change.

Rowling certainly implies dire consequences for those time travelers who mess up:

"Professor McGonagall told me what awful things have happened when wizards have meddled with time....Loads of them ended up killing their past or future selves by mistake!" (PoA Ch21 "Hermione's Secret" )

That's Hermione explaining to Harry why he needs to be careful about what he does.

Pity Rowling doesn't show us a detailed example of time travel gone wrong, but I wonder if she is going to revisit time travel as she had Neville smash all the time turners in OotP? Time travel seems to be an extreme plot element to introduce and then abandoned.

time is one of the things in the universe that will remain a mystery forever. Time is a valuable thing, therefor should never be meadled with. It is both complex and mysterious, trying to uncover cloaked answers will in fact waste time. JK makes it clear how crucial and tricky time is, and doesnt even try to fully explai it... i dont think even Dumbledore could answer the unexplainable time question....

Abe Vlastelina Rulz, be typaciiiiiii

Time Travel, although I love the idea, is a load of baloney.

I am a great lover of all time travel films, Back to the future, Terminator, Minority Report (although you may argue this as being time travel), the time machine, 12 monkeys etc. But traveling into the past would cause so many alterations to the future that you've come from, that you may not be able to return.

For example, Herminone looses the time piece whilst in the past or she dies in the past, she then can't fulfil actions she would have already taken. (Don't start thinking to hard, it just hurts).

Otherwise known as a paradox

If your interested take a look at this site. It explains nearly everything you want to know about problems with time travel in films and where some films are more probable than others. Im afraid Potter isn't mentioned though.

I don't think it is possible to change the PRESENT by traveling back in the PAST. However, you CAN change the FUTURE by changing the PRESENT. So, if you were to travel into the future, and study what happened in "the past" i.e. your "present" you could return to your normal time and take actions with a foreknowledge of what was to come, and perhaps avoid that "future."

I believe one character in the HP books is doing just that.

My editorial: "Dumbledore Knows All . . . But How?"

Explains my theory.

Hmm... Changing the past is impossible unless the past looks absolutely identical to the actual past to the time traveller and the causes that made the traveller travel time. Here comes the paradox. If you change the reason for going back, you don't go back, and you don't exist because there is no past "you" going back to do the exact same thing you just did in your "past". Therefore, the event remains unchanged seeing as you never went back to change it, causing you to go back to change it and so on and so forth. It is hard to explain. Let's make it more clear.

The past is written in stone unless nothing appears to be changed in the past!

This reminds me of Chrono Trigger. Ahh! That old SNES game was awesome. At one point, the main character dies and you have to find a way to save him. Eventually, you are given a way to travel to the precise moment the character died, replace him with a doll that looks exactly like him, and take the main character back to the present. That way, the sub-characters in the past still believe that the main character is dead and do everything that you did to preserve the space-time continue...um thingy. Though the whole game is based on changing history... and future as well for that matter... this is the only event that would really remain changed. The past has been kept in the exact same way it looked originally, causing everything in the "future" to happen the exact same way. This causes the changed thing to be saved.

Now let's go into how much can be changed. What makes you you? Every thought, memory, and piece of you that makes up your body and brain. There is a different reason why every single person to ever step foot on this planet is different other than looks, DNA, or just arrangement of atoms. It is your experiences and brain functions! Those are uniquely yours and will only be yours unless science somehow finds a way to violate this sanctity of the mind. If you change one tiny memory, you change yourself! Everything must remain exactly as it was for the traveller in his or her own mind, down to the last sight, smell, and breath! You change this and you change yourself, literally creating a new "you" to take your place as you just fade away to non-existance because it is not you that is doing what you have just done, but the new "you". This is exactly what makes time travel fics almost impossible. I'm guessing that I've only read about five that really grasp this importance of not changing anything. Phenominal, really, seeing that once you get it, it's no longer too hard to understand. It's just "getting there" that's so hard.

Yes, therin lies the quandry. How much of yourself can you effect without changing yourself to the point where you would change the reason you went into the past in the first place. Because, unless you went into the past for the exact same reason you went into the past in the first place, you would be creating a different time line.

If that makes sense. :S

But let's say you went into the past a thousand years, just to look around. You eat an apple, and throw the core on the side of the road. The apple grows into an apple tree, where there would not have been one if you had not gone back into the past. If that was the end of it, when you go back to your present, nothing would have changed in your life.

Now, lets say someone finds that apple tree. They decide to stay there, because they'll have lasting food. They build a house, start a farm, begin an apple orchard. Soon, people are coming and going from that farm, buying and selling. Eventually a small market town springs up, and other people move there, starting other farms, growing more food, meaning more trade, etc. In a hundred years there is a huge metropolis, all because you dropped an apple core.

That affects the world on a large scale. Some of your ancestors may have moved there, rather than to a different city, or the trade from that city may have choked off trade from the city your ancestors DID live in, affecting their lives. By the time it got around to the point where you were born again, you would have been so changed that you never went into the past in the first place. There would be another "you" all together. The first you would be a stranger in a strange land.

Now, lets say you realized what had caused all of that. You go back AGAIN, and pick up your apple-core and return to the future. None of that would have ever happened. You would not have effected the world on a large scale, you did nothing that would change your personality.

So, I believe SMALL changes are possible. The danger, however, is that even the most insignificant things can start a chain reaction that would alter everything. Even talking to someone on the street. Lets say someone has to step around you, where they normally would have been walking in a straight line. You altered their path by perhaps an extra two steps, but if those two steps caused, or kept, them from getting hit by a bus, you may have caused a chain reaction that would change everything forever.

Where JK's example of Time Travel differs, is that they were traveling only a few hours into the past. There is so little difference between their "past" and "future" personalities that any changes they make will not affect them. Indeed, their "present" selves were already affected by actions their "future" selves would take. There was no time for a chain reaction to occur. The changes they made became a natural part of the timeline, infact things that HAD to happen for them to "exist" in the way that they do.

A hundred years on from that point, saving Sirius and Buckbeak may have changed the "future" drastically. However, since there was never a time when Buckbeak and Sirius died, that Future never existed in the first place. The only way to "see" that future is if you traveled there before you went back to save buckbeak and Sirius. Then you would have seen a future where Harry never spoke with Sirius in the fires, the Order never met at Grimmauld Place, Sirius was not there to fight Bellatrix, which means she would have been fighting someone else, or even killing Harry. If you existed in that timeline, you would be a different person than the one viewing the "older" you. It would be an alternate reality.

Which is why it is possible to visit the future, discover events that happened since the time you left, go back and make sure they happen, or stop them from happening all together. Thereby avoiding future events that you do not wish to occur.

Hope all that makes sense It's a bit more abstract than my Dumbledore theory, but when I wrote that, I was trying to explain it to people that hadn't "gotten there" yet.

p.s.(ChronoTrigger was alot of fun! Have you played Skies of Arcadia: Legends? It's a bit "old school" for a new generation platform game, but it reminds me alot of Final Fantasy III, with good graphics and a better story.)

*Claps vigorously* Bravo! We have a winner! Everything LLtWK! said is what I'm trying to say! Unfortunately, we don't know if time travel to the future is possible in the wizarding world yet, so we can't be too sure about changing the future. I might find something to add later.

(No I haven't played Skies of Arcadia, although it does ring a bell. Maybe I should do a search and find out what that's about...)

lol. I never considered that! Duh. I guess we really don't know if traveling into the future is possible. We know that wizards can "age" things rapidly, however. As well as make them younger. That was the purpose of the twinkly bell jar thingy in the DoM. An accelleration and reversal of time. I'm willing to bet that that form of "making someone younger" would not be good for immortality, however, as I believe it actually reverses the time stream, so they would lose memories and experience as they grew younger. Which is why the DE turned into a squalling baby when his head was placed inside. Whereas accellerating the aging process would make you old before your time. You would not gain experience you normally would had you lived your life naturally.

p.s.(I loved Skies of Arcadia:Legends. It's for GameCube. The original SoA was for DreamCast, which I never played. It is a very unique game about Air Pirates. The ship to ship battles are perhaps the most unique aspect. Also, I found Star Wars Jedi Knight II: Jedi Academy to be a blast. It's less RPG than Action platform with a story, but the lightsaber battle and force abilities are intense. That one's for XBox, and you can have lightsaber duels through XBox Live. The thing I like best about it is that it is not just button mashing. You actually control the lightsaber with the thumbstick. You can put together combos, but you have to make them yourself. You can also choose what force abilities to upgrade and set them to presets, allowing you to use them in mid lightsaber attack. Hard to explain, you just have to try it!)

Id like to add a little of my old physics leasons to this.

Believe it or not, we time travel every day, but only into the future. The moment you move anywhere you are speeding up your process through time. Many of you must have suffered physics leasons where you had to learn the equation Distance over Speed = Time. We use the calculation daily m/h and km/h or miles per hour and kilometres per hour.

Therefore anyway you travel faster than standing still the quicker you move into the future.
Of course, the difference is unnoticable because we never travel at great enough speeds.

Going on...

To look back in time you would need to travel faster than the speed of light, then look back in the direction you just traveled from. Because you traveled faster than the light that was projected from the source, you will see things that happened in the past.

The only problem is if you then go back to the source at the speed of light you would arrive there in their future, because you have just done two lots of distance / speed = time. So what you saw would not be relavent.

So, is it possible to travel "through" time? Yes, we do it everyday.
Is it possible to travel back in time? Only in the world of Harry Potter.

I think that the ministry of magic is very secretive. the basement is full of things most of the wizarding world doesnt even know about!






the only time we knew about anything was in the 5th book and most of it wasnt explained.

MOD EDIT : Please keep your comments related to the topic, which in this case, is the issue of whether the past can be changed.








SahyRadcliffe16

Any of you guys ever studied any Unified Theory? Because that actually discusses the concept of time travel, in a roundabout way. What about if we stop considering time as a linear thing, but instead look at it as more of a web, with each junction being the mark of a choice?

I chose to take a different route home today than the one I normally took. What if there was another 'timeline' where I took the route home than I normally do? What if there is another 'dimension' in which a 'copy' of myself is doing something slightly differently? Would it have an influence in the great scheme of things? Probably not...but that's what Unified theory suggests.

It's how some people explain ghosts, deja vu and alien visitations - its where two alternate realities superimpose themselves, even if for just the briefest of moments. If we can understand the nature of how things like this can occur (in terms of wavelengths of energy, visible light, and so on) then they reckon that we're one step closer to understanding how it might just be possible to 'time travel', but not quite in the same way as JKR did it.

I know I haven't made much sense here, but it's a very complex theory and it's been a few years since I've studied it, but I assure you that it does have a basis in quantum physics and is a seriously considered theory.

Did you know, for example, that time is no longer linear around the event horizon of a black hole?

I'll probably need a few years to get what you mean, Dana. I have heard of the Unified Theory, but nothing about it. Therefore, I'm sorry to say I got almost nothing out of your post except time should be considered a web. That, I can agree with, although I myself don't believe in alternate universes.

Ah, Dana, you'll live this site then HERE. String Theory is another one going about (actually there's more than one string theory), and far more confusing :-).

BBC (i think) keep repeating it at random times of day. It's another way of looking at things.

Completely off topic, my apologies, but others who might be interested in the topic, may find that interesting also

The Unified Theory is what the T.V. show "Sliders" was based on. If any of you weren't still in diapers before they canceled it . Sliding from one alternate reality to another. Good concept, but the show itself was sort of "Buffy the Vampire Slayer"esque. Nothing to write home about. (At this point a thousand Buffy fans try to stab wooden stakes into my chest!)

I actually just ran across an article reviewing several physicists String Theories. It didn't go into details though, so I still don't know what String Theory is. It was like watching Siskel and Ebert. "Well, this guy did such and such, but his mother drinks too much coffee, so I gave it a thumbs down." That sort of thing. I'll probably look it up when I get time.

Anyway, I think the only way humans will ever be able to travel through time is if we somehow discover a way to bend time/space to our will, bole a hole through the fabric of reality, and come out on the other side. This would take so much equiptment that you really would need some sort of "time-machine."

The key would be in creating and harnessing gravity. In essence, you'd be creating a miniature, controled black hole that would bend time-space without effecting matter. Not sure how that would help you get into the past or future, but it would be rather useful in jumping from place to place. I think that is going to be the future of "faster than light" travel. Rather than traveling along the curvature of space, you bend it until it is close enough to step from one side of the "gravity bowl" to the other, then bend it again, and step. If you could do that continuously you could travel much faster than light. What effect that will have on the universe, I don't know. Probably catastrophic, but then that never stopped us from harnessing the atom, now did it?

Ahh! Yes! The fabled "worm hole". I have heard of that from my brother. The bridge through space. Hmmm. Don't know how you could manipulate that to go through time though. We may be able to harness such power later, but just not now.

Well, that is a theory used in many movies and TV series. But JK has decided to make time in Harry's world cyclic, she must have a good reason for it. Maybe somethingnot only related to saving Sirius and Buckbeak, but also related to what happened at Godric´s Hollow?? OK, sorry, a bit off topic. That would bring us to the other thread.

Wow, these are really good points! I don't really know about the time travel and I wasn't particularly interested until now. I personally think they may become three hours younger, and still remember everything, because if they didn't how would Hermione remember what her classes were about?

But anyway, I like Dana_Scully's idea of the different dimentions doing things slightly differently and the Unified Theory.

I don't think they actually become younger, because every time you use the Time Turner, you actually jump back in time. Remember, they were able to see their past selves? This would actually make them three hours OLDER, as they went back three hours from a certain moment, lived those three hours until they reached that moment again, and then continued their lives from that point on.

I think that if anyone were to use a time turner on a regular basis over the course of years, they would age far more rapidly than they should. Unless, of course, you do not age when you are outside of your native time-stream. Which might be a possibility as well.

However, you would still "age" mentally, as you would be gaining experience and knowledge. Which may be part of why Hermione seems so much more mature than Harry or Ron. She lived an entire year twice, jumping back an hour or two at a time. She was already nearly a year older than Harry, the TT episode would have made her closer to TWO years older than him.

ya i do agree on the mental part, that part makes sense, but now i dont know, do you age while your in the past, or does it stop and wait for you....i mean your back in time right....so you really dont exist yet in the future, or do you? oh now im just confusing myself

MOD EDIT : No netspeak please. Your post has been edited.

In my opinion you don't lose any time of your life at all. When you go back in time you just become younger and then go on with that till you reach the present and become the same age you were when you went back in time. I also agree with the ageing mentally part but I don't believe you age physically.

One of those things...everything happens for a reason, and if you change it you can seriously mess stuff up

Well yes you can mess things up if you do wrong things but I don't think it always happens. Harry and Hermione didn't mess anything up, did they. That was because everything was going in a cycle. There future selves were already time traveling. It'll be the same thing, I suppose, if we decide to do it too. (As if we could )

You could change the past in Harry Potter if you want to but as what Dumbledore said, you might mess things up, instead of making it better. You know, sometimes, we are really tempted to change the past but what we don't realize if that we learn something from it.

Ah, but I see you haven't seemed to read the rest of the posts.

Any event that happens is stored in our memories, changing who we are constantly, but only so much that the event is added to our minds. These eventually shape us out to be a certain someone. Therefore, if you had a memory of someone dieing, and you got rid of that memory, would you not have lost a part of yourself? Your past self would be different, thereby changing your future self and you not existing. But if you got rid of the reason for going back in time, you didn't go back in time at all. Therefore, you are unchanged and your future self exists. But then you go back in time, ect, ect, yada yada yada You get my point.

Time travel is possible. Changing the past is beyond dangerous though. The only possible way to do so is to make the reason for going back in time stand even after the past has been changed. Everything must happen exactly as the past self saw, otherwise, it will become a different future self than the existing future self. And now I'm just getting back into that loop again... Oi...

Wow! This is a cool topic! Makes me want to take my physics earlier. I totally got you Bandoth.

I dont think that anyone could change the past. But travelling back is a different matter. Harry and Hermione never really changed any events that supposedly happened because they were there before to change it. What they did in travelling back in time is just fulfilling the future actions that they are predestined to do(in the past). And as Bandoth said everything is continously looped infinitely.

While they heard the thud of the axe that supposedly killed buckbeak it really was the executioner's chopping of the pumpkin because they already saved the hippogrif long before they knew it! They never really saved buckbeak's and sirius' life coz they already saved it. Its like in 'The Matrix, the only thing they have to do is fulfill what they have to do because they already did it and chose to do it. They only need to experience and understand what they did.

If they changed one bit they will cease to exist and the future or the real present would change because a few hours of your being is alot! There would rips in the fabric of time and space

As for the ageing. I dont think they did because the travel in time was almost instant. The relative time of the surroundings and the time traveller is different. I think physical ageing is extremely slow but it will catch up at the time harry and hermione were back at their original time. Sort of in the theory of relativity.

You guys get what I mean?

I read the "Brief History of Space and Time" by Stephen Hawking so I sort of know the idea. This book showed up in PoA too. In the leaky cauldron scene. A wizard was reading it while stirring his cup of coffee.

Fascinating discussion, and just like the time thingy, it keeps going round in circles.

I agree with Bandoth, Grinch and hedwig.9, As far as the HP books are concerned with time travel, it seems that the past cannot be changed, but the future can.

I am repeating stuff here but as they pointed out, Harry and Hermiones future selves were already saving Buckbeak and Sirius while they were trying to figure out what to do. So they didn't actually change anything, they were merely fulfilling their chosen paths. ()

I think that's how Dumbledore knew to tell them to use the time turner. He had already witnessed Buckbeaks escape, and realised that Harry and Hermione could do it by going back in time. Nothing much gets by him!

I'm not too sure about the infinate loop thing though. I think that once Harry and Hermione have returned to the place they first used the time turner, theat would be the end of it, because it is all in the past now.

Ah! But if Harry saved Sirius, would he have gone back in time to do so? Would that Harry that did the saving exist anymore? No, because Sirius has been saved. But then if Harry didn't save Sirius, he'd go back to save him. But he didn't need to go back to save him because he's already been saved but he wasn't saved because he didn't go back to save him because he was already saved. Quite a confusing loop, especially when you don't say who the pronouns refer to... You see, the person who changed the past would create a loop for themselves to get stuck in because they wouldn't do what the did if they suceeded in doing their business, for it has already been done for the past traveller. My guess is that it would either do something to rip the space-time continu... thingy or cause the traveller to cease to exist. For this reason, if the past is "changed" it must have already happened when the even occured in the "past" and the "change" must not change what is seen, heard, smelled, heard, tasted, or remembered. Changing any of that will create a different experience, thereby creating a different "future" traveller and causing the loop to start up again. But if the change is completely unnoticeable to the person who does the travelling in the past, then the change will occur without causing the loop to form.

I'd just like to say your theory is WRONG! first off you would exist if you were to change that event it wouldn't screw with your existance at all it may change you a little but think logically seriusly the only way you won't exist is if you some how change something that makes you die in the futur

yeah they did time travel to save Sirius wy cant they TT to save Dumbledore(maybe a little boring because they could TT to do everything again so that HP mum and dad where not killed by Voldemort and ...!)

it wode get boring then :unsure: !

Oh dear... Why could Harry and Hermione go back in time to save Sirius in book 3 and not be able to save Sirius or DD? If you can ask me that question and give me a good answer to it from your view, I'll drop this whole thing. Don't give me "because JKR didn't want it that way." JKR is quite a bit more logical and educated to just not do things for no reason. I, on the other hand, have already given a very logical and plausible explaination. As for not existing, perhaps it wouldn't be "not existing," but it would be serious. Every single event in your life makes you who you are. If one of those things was changed, then a new "you" is created, for something has been added or taken away from your memory, your very being. If it is a serious enough change, then you will be changed completely, possibly stopping the course of action you really took and causing the "you" that travelled back in time to not exist, for the past you never travelled back in time. Then we enter the big loop again.

Hi Telah, welcome to the forums!!

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Okay, done!

BTW, I like your avater Ashley! That's cool!

Telah

the death event that was the start of the topic is the basis of the film "time machine"(not the book), as of traveling through time, there are many thories however the view of changing the past and accidently erasing your self would only be apparent if you existed as a second version of yourself, if however you travel through time under a time displacement, you would exist in that time as a seperate individual, the problems with this form of displacement is that know ones sure its possible and whether if you did change somthing, you would only know the resulting consequences whence you return to the time you left. this brings us to the next question of whether you are then displaced form time when you return as well thefore you do not feel any action from your meddeling in the timeline. other details to a discussion like this are mor easily discussed in person rather than on a forum or message board. if you have any queries about my views and basis for time theory, please pm me to discuss further.