In the Pensieve, Sirius calls james Prongs in front of everybody, so everybody should know how they´re called, their nicknames. But when in PoA Snape catches Harry out of bed with the map and the map starts insulting him he doesn´t recognize the names. How can that be?? A friend of mine says he simply doesn´t remember, but I think that´s not it. Maybe he didn´t really hear Sirius or can it be simply JK´s mistake???

I think Snape knew who Moony, Padfoot, Prongs and Wormtail was. I thought when he called Lupin, he said something like Harry got it 'from the manufacturers themselves'. So, maybe he knew only Padfoot and Prongs and not Moony and Wormtail... or maybe he knew all of them but did not know the real function of that map.... **shrugs** I don't think it really matter anyway whether everybody knew their nicknames or not, cause even LV called Peter, Wormtail.... so......

He did. He called Lupin in and said "are you sure he did not get it directly from the manufacturers?"

He was implying that Remus gave it to Harry directly.

Yes, that's what he said, didn't he? And it even included in the movie as well. I thought it's a hint to indicate that Remus was a Marauders... since they didn't insert anything on Marauders except for the map.

Er...Hallia, getting a little off topic here I think....

This has come up before in one of the other threads around here somewhere.....ah, here it is. I think it was pretty much decided that Snape did know. He certainly knew in the book, and that's what counts.

Okay then...Snape's worst memory....poor little guy....

Right, ok Louise back to it.

The biggest questions that came to my head during the memory is 1.) if Snape had a chance to duel with James OR Sirius ONE ON ONE who do you think would win?

The Second thing is when Snape uses the word..."Mudblood" :shudders: do you think he was using it because he was embarrassed and angry or do you think he was revealing his feelings and how he genuinely feels about wizards of muggle descent.

IMHO, I think Snape genuinely favors purebloods, I mean he became a death eater for a reason right?

I also think that Snape, in a one on one duel could go toe to toe with either James or Sirius and McGonagall is biased towards her Gryfinndor (sp?) Students.

Anyway, tell me whatya think.

Peace

I'm not sure who would win in a dueling between Snape and James/Sirius. As far as I understand, dueling need quick thinking and action to defeat your opponent. But Snape it seems was very good in Potions (which is not that handy when dueling anyway...) So, I dunno eh... Probably James/Sirius could win?

When Snape was saying that word, you can see that he was emotionally disturbed. He was just being held upside down by his worst foe in school. And he's outnumbered to say the least. Okay, maybe he was being mean and bitter for saying such thing to Lily... but consider this. You're sitting all alone when suddenly someone played a prank on you and a girl coming your way to save you. Whatever pride you might have left while hanging upside down would have gone altogether by that fact alone. C'mon... and you're a Slytherin too!! You're the one who's suppose to be cunning in the first place!!

Nah, I think he didn't really mean it, it sort of came tumbling out in the heat of situation. People say a lot of regretful things when they're angry or depressed or that sort of thing...

I know... I know.... I like Snape! What can I say? He turn out to be interesting to me all of a sudden!

I think with out a doubt James or Sirius could beat Severus with their wand hand tied behind their back.

After all we know James and Sirius where the brightest students in their year (they managed to become unregistered Animagus's under Dumbledore’s nose (apparently) and from Severus's reactions to Harry when taking (or hurling insults as the case may be) about James Severus seems to have been envious of James Magical talent, popularity and Quidditch skill. As Zyra pointed out in the last post duels tend to involve quick thinking to defeat your opponent, where as Severus, bless him doesn't appear to have been able to yield the same speed as James in his Pensive. Even though he probably knows more Jinxes than James and Sirius (he really knows his stuff when it comes to the Dark Arts) he probably wouldn't have the reflexes which James in particular has (He’s a seeker!) to execute a jinx or counter jinx.

I don't think by Severus calling Lily a 'filthy MudBlood' has any bearing on weather he is still in the service of Voldemort today as Sirius points out that He and James were 'arrogant little berks' when they where 15, so isn't it possible that Severus was even more of an 'arrogant little berk' at the age of 15?

Another thing I was thinking about regarding Snape's worst memory is about James and Lily's early courtship (because afterall, everything we learn directly about James and Lily's early courtship we see in the pensieve).

I was wondering what made Lily go from go from despising James to falling in love with him!

I also want to know what made James go from non-prefect to head boy, a pretty big jump if you ask me considering he had no official leadership role in the past.

the best guess I can hazard is that James was dramatically changed after he rescued Severus from rampaging werewolf Lupin.

Maybe this event was so intense for James that it changed his whole outlook on life so that Dumbledore felt comfortable making him a Head Boy.

Anyway tell me what you think. I would love to hear your ideas and your opinions.

Oi! Who do you call 'rampaging'?!! Really... have some consideration.....


( Meh, I'm just kidding... I know he is a dangerous beast in full moon but I still love him... )

Anyway, one left to wonder about that eh?

What made Lily changed her mind? Did James had really changed after that incident?

Although... might I suggest you this thread here for such discussion? It's just that I don't want us getting off topic, you know... And since we have a specific thread for that, it's all the better to make it easier to keep on track... thank you!

Anywayy... yeah... James sounded like a total prat in Snape's worst memory there... no wonder Harry was furious with Sirius and Lupin for not telling him...

I have another question for you guys. What made Snape include the test-taking aaspect of the memory?

I think I may be reading too much into this, but still I'd like to know why not just start the memory from the outside and on POST-Test.


Do you think that there is more to that aspect of the memory than meets the eye or am I just anxious and desperate for the next book?

I also read a GREAT editorial over at Mugglenet.com by Maline. I am putting it up now. she basically suggests, with incredible evidence that Snape may have deliberately shown Harry that Memory.

I think it’s quite safe to say that Snape’s greatest weakness is the Marauders (and consequently, Harry). From the scene in the Pensieve, as well as the information we get from Snape’s interaction with Sirius and Lupin, we know that the Marauders were quite horrible to him in school and the way Snape acts around them and Harry shows that he’s not the type of person who forgives and forgets. The wounds inflicted clearly run far too deep for healing. I would like to compare two scenes: Snape’s loss of control at the end of PoA and the scene after he finds Harry looking into his (Dumbledore’s?) Pensieve in OotP.

If we start by taking a literary look at the two scenes, it’s quite clear that they fill two very different functions in the story. The PoA Snape is comical in his anger, screaming out his disappointment at the top of his lungs while Dumbledore manipulates the situation with a twinkle in his eyes. The OotP Snape is not comical. He’s scary, and the scene’s main purpose (in my opinion) is to give the reader the same unpleasant epiphany as Harry gets, and to create a situation where everything is suddenly turned on its head. The first scene is funny, the second is dark, and Snape is very different.

In the hospital wing in PoA, Snape is “beside himself” (p. 306). All his lines are written in capital letters and the verbs used are “roared”, “bellowed”, “howled” and “shrieked”. His face is twisted and spit is flying from his mouth. Hardly dignified behaviour, and a complete loss of self-control.

In the dungeons in OotP, Snape is described to be “white with rage” (p. 572). His lips are shaking, his face is white, and his teeth are bared. He grips Harry’s arm so tightly he cuts off his circulation, shakes him so hard his glasses slip down his nose, throws him to the floor with “all his might,” and throws a jar of dead cockroaches after him as he runs out the door. Intimidating? Yes. Loss of control? Not that clear.

The main difference in these two scenes lies in the dialogue. The PoA Snape bellows his accusations and acts very much like an angry child. “This has something to do with Potter!”, “They helped him escape, I know it!”, “He did it, I know he did it!” Hardly up to our dear Potions Master’s regular standards, now is it? The loss of control comes across as very sincere. When you lose it, you lose it, and you don’t think about what comes out of your mouth. Now compare this to the scene after the Pensieve:

“Having fun?”, “So, been enjoying yourself, Potter?”, “Amusing man, your father, wasn’t he?”, “You will not repeat what you saw to anybody!”, “Get out, get out, I don’t want to see you in this office ever again!”

The OotP Snape is sarcastic and mixes wit with insult much like he usually does. He’s very far from the screaming lunatic in PoA. If we look at the verbs, we have two “said” and one “bellowed”, a much softer choice of words than in PoA. There isn’t any capitalised dialogue to suggest screaming either. Overall, the scene comes across as highly intimidating, and the main reason why it’s so scary is, I think, that Snape actually stays in control of himself. He’s nowhere near the state he was in in PoA, which makes me wonder exactly how much control he has over the situation.

Self-control or Manipulation?

I thought I’d mentioned the theory of “Snape’s Worst Memory” being a possible setup in an earlier article, but looking through them now, I can’t seem to find it. As is quite often the case with me, this is a theory I first came across at the Red Hen site (to which I think you all know the address by now. :-)). To summarise, it states that Harry going into the Pensieve is actually a setup to get Snape out of the troublesome situation of teaching Harry Occlumency – a skill Dumbledore wants him to learn and that Voldemort doesn’t want him to learn, for obvious reasons.

I like this theory, both because I think it can actually be well argued for and because it gives a very interesting spin on things. The title of the chapter for example: “Snape’s Worst Memory”. Does this indicate a) the memory that Snape thinks back on as the worst moment of his life (doubtful, I’ll get back to that), or could it perhaps be the memory out of Snape’s memories that would have the worst impact on Harry? The wording is very ambiguous and allows for a multitude of different interpretations.

It seems unlikely to me that what Harry witnesses in the Pensieve should be the memory of the worst moment in Snape’s life. When Harry broke through his defences during Occlumency, he saw scenes of humiliation, loneliness, and possible domestic abuse. We also know that Snape was nearly killed by the Marauders (Lupin in werewolf form) at (what we think is) the end of their fifth year. He was (is) a Death Eater. He was overpowered and knocked out by three of his students (in PoA). He almost got an Order of Merlin, only to have it slip through his fingers at his mortal enemy’s escape. Lupin helped Neville Longbottom transform a boggart into him wearing a dress and vulture-topped hat in front of a whole class of students. The list goes on, and I highly doubt that the scene in the Pensieve was the worst thing that’s ever happened to him. From what we gather in OotP when Harry speaks to Sirius and Lupin in the fire, that sort of humiliation seems to have occurred quite regularly.

Which leads me to examine possibility number two: that this is Snape’s worst memory – for Harry. Not Harry’s worst memory, mind (the boy’s been through a lot after all), but the “best” Snape can offer. The memory does affect Harry deeply. It shows him his father, whom he’s always idolised, in a role that Harry hates (the role of the abuser – same as Dudley or Draco Malfoy), picking on another student, two to one, just to have some fun. It puts Snape, whom he hates, in a role he can so easily identify with, turning his world upside down. It does do some real damage.

Snape would have known that it would, assuming that he did set Harry up. Snape’s broken into Harry’s mind many times by the time of this scene. He’s seen all of Harry’s bad memories, many of which include bullying or abuse and people laughing at him. These are probably not Harry’s worst memories (the ones that have to do with death being indisputably scarier), but they’re bad enough. It’s also a memory that makes Harry ashamed, confused, and angry apart from feeling sorry for Snape. I don’t really see what Snape could have shown Harry that would have had a more negative impact on the boy.

Back to the control issues. In the OotP scene, Snape is intimidating and violent, but he doesn’t do any real physical damage. He shakes Harry and throws him to the floor. Had he wanted to really hurt the boy, he would probably have thrown him into something. A wall? A desk? If you’ve lost control, you tend not to think. I very much doubt that the PoA Snape would have thrown Harry to the floor and given him a little shake. A more believable reaction would be to try and strangle the boy (for example). It seems like he’s a bit too much in control here to resort to actual violence.

On the other hand, he doesn’t act as one would suspect a Snape-in-control to act either. There’s a very simple solution to catching one of your students taking a peek into your most intimate secrets, the ones that you don’t want anyone to know about – you simply obliviate the little bugger. Even in his state of blind rage in PoA, Snape is rational. He logically discards the option of Sirius Black having escaped through Apparition by stating (or screaming) that you can’t apparate on Hogwarts’ grounds. This was at a moment where he seems to have lost it completely. In the OotP scene, he comes into the room, sees Potter with his head down the Pensieve, walks over, gets in and pulls Potter out. Plenty of time for the thought “maybe I should obliviate him” to enter his mind. Anyone else who’s starting to think “Hey, this doesn’t quite fit.”?

In addition, Snape is (or at least has been) a spy. He’s working (has worked) for Voldemort. He’s a master Occlumens. One would think that he knows a) not to take stupid chances and how to hide something he really wants to hide. He can probably be taken by surprise, just like anyone else, which is what I think happens the time when Harry breaks into Snape’s mind. From what we’re told, Harry only succeeds in doing that once. So why then, in the name of all that’s good and holy, would Snape put the secret memories he absolutely wants to hide from Harry into a Pensieve, right in front of the boy, whom he knows to be extremely curious and utterly lacking in respect for his personal things, and then leave the Pensieve out on the desk, giving the boy easy access once he’s out of the room? And then, when he’s dragged the boy out of the stone basin, he lets him go with a warning not to tell anyone else, when he knows that the Trio’s practically inseparable, that Potter has practically no feelings of loyalty towards him and that the boy will need to discuss this with someone or it’ll eat him alive. It just doesn’t fit. There’s nothing to indicate that Snape puts his thoughts into the Pensieve to hide them from Harry, nothing except Harry’s assumption that is. And, let’s face it, how often is Harry right when it comes to figure out the motives behind Snape’s actions? Harry isn’t a trained Legillimens. Snape has no reason to fear that he won’t be able to hide secret thoughts from him once he’s prepared and doesn’t underestimate the boy anymore. If he doesn’t realise that inside the mind of a Master Occlumens is safer than in an easy-to-access-for-anyone-with-a-wand Pensieve, he’s just plain stupid. And I’ve never looked at Snape as being stupid.

Basically, what convinces me is this: To have acted like he does without an ulterior motive (just because he was angry), Snape would have had to be completely out of control and not thinking straight. And he’s not. We’ve seen him in that state in PoA and this is not it. Another little detail that deserves to be pointed out is that he throws a jar which explodes over Harry’s head. Evidence of mad rage? Perhaps, but, as Red Hen points out, this is a jar of dead cockroaches, which is probably one of the cheaper Potion ingredients. Might be a coincidence. It might also indicate that the “sign of fury” is really a show…


Hmmm... Makes you wonder

I CUT OUT THE TOP OF THE ARTICLE FOR SPACE, BUT PLEASE READ IT

That's it from me. bye

Very interesting article. Muggle net rocks by the way.

Given the evidence in POA as compared to OOTP, it is a strong possibility that snape has showed him that on purpose.

but maybe, when snape realized what harry was seeing, snape realized that harry will understand that how snape has described james is truly how james treated snape, and not that snape is this mean mad man who is just out to be the bad guy. i like snape. i think that he is a smart man, and that dumbledore does have a good reason to trust him.
maybe he wasnt as mad as he should of been and snape knew that he had to act the part of being mad.
i concur that snape's mad in the 5th book is different, and unnatural than snapes anger in the 3rd book, which was a natural reaction.

could we say from knowing that it was a different reaction that snape did that on purpose? no i do not believe snape laid out the penisive on purpose with that memory for harry. snape did not know that the slytherin (i forget his name, and i dont have my book) who showed up in the closet would show up at that moment. but i do believe that snape allowoed him to watch the ending of that memory so harry could see where snape is comming from, since snape knew that harrys upbringing was not too different from his own. Maybe snape did it so harry would change his attitude towards him. I definitley think that they both need an attitude change towards each other.

i know its not very likely this is what happened. but one could only hope.

and as to why the test - taking part was involved, i think there is more to the memory that harry did not see. in my opinion snape had that full day in his memory, and that happened to be where harry fell in at. I think that we cannot trust memorys, given the diary when riddle shows harry certain parts so harry will see only the part with hagrid. and like in the penisive in DD's office, we saw parts of trials, not a full details.

I don't think he meant for Harry to see that memory. He wasn't supposed to look in the Pensieve - it was private. If he'd meant for Harry to see it, he could have manipulated it so that he did by allowing Harry to break into his mind or something. He was livid when he caught Harry looking at it - not just angry, but almost murderous. So he couldn't have been trying to protect him from seeing his father that way. He must have just been embarrassed by the whole incident. How many of us would be embarrassed if our friends today could see an incident from our childhood where we had the ka-ka beaten out of us or were being bullied or something like that?

I think Snape's reaction was completely understandable and justifiable. I'd probably have thrown something at Harry too.

But why would he leave Harry alone with that thing? Wouldn't his memories be safer inside of the mind of a Master Occulemens (sp?) he had no idea Harry would break into his mind.

Also he threw a jar of dead cockroaches. This seems like one of the easiest items to replace, unlike his treasured more valueable potion ingredients.

Snape also made comments like "Amusing man, your father, wasn't he?"

He still was sarcastic and witty.

Lastly, he didn't even come CLOSE to murdering Harry. He pushed, albeit hard, but he only pushed him. Why not strangle the little rodent? Or grab your wand and obliviate his memory of the incident?

I don't know that Snape intentionally left that memory for Harry to see, but maybe had an unconscious desire that Harry would go into the Pensieve.

Snape also left Harry alone with the Pensieve the night Trelawney was sacked, but Harry followed Snape out after a moment.

I can't really see Snape wanting Harry to see that memory on purpose. I think it is Snape's worst memory in relation to Harry, and therefore too distressing for Snape to risk sharing with Harry.

What I find weird about the whole Pensieve bit was that Snape got to use the Pensieve to protect some of his memories, but no such courtesy was extended to Harry.

Lordy, alexis, is there anywhere you haven't posted? And you told me that you didn't pay that much attention to the books...I dunno... Only joking mate....

Anyway, it's a very interesting point about it being Snape's worst memory in HARRY'S view...that's a key thing. I mean, there's nothing to say that it actually was his worst memory, is there?

And I don't think Snape was being witty with that comment...you have to imagine him as absoutely seething with barely restrained rage in that moment - he was definitely sarcastic, possibly a little bitter and needing desperately to stab back at Harry's memory of his father to recover something of his own dignity. He was a lot of things then, I think...it was the first time that we have ever seen Snape so totally lose control like that - which is quite something for someone who is supposed to be a master occlumens, an expert in hiding what they feel. Something about Harry's witnessing that memory really pushed a button with him - maybe it was embarrassment, maybe it was just anger that Harry had invaded his privacy, or maybe it was something much more...

And he couldn't really actually hurt Harry, could he? He would never have gotten away with it for one thing, and for another, maybe he knows that Harry is the only way that Voldemort can ever be truly defeated and he's afraid of LV taking his revenge on him, so it's a form of self-protection. I guess he could have obliterated his memory of it, but I think Snape was too angry then to be thinking that logically. I guess there was nothing to stop him doing it later though.

Mmm....I'm reading OotP again right now and I'm approaching that bit...maybe I'll have some more thoughts on this later.

Maybe people didn't think about it...I mean people don't when my friends call me Layla...
I really don't think that JK has made a mistake...
I think...

I think Snape does know about the Mauraders´nicknames because when Harry tells him "He´s got Padfoot at the place where it´s hidden" he tries to find out if Sirius is or not at Headquarters.

About Snap's worst memory.Harry gets upset becaus his
father did that.Well if that was the worst,than it realy wasn't
all that bad was it?Unless he went around cursing other
people like he was cursing Snape.

That's an interesting way to think about it, Keara. I've never really thought of it like that before. We learn that James would often hex Snape but if that was the worest of it then, yeah Snape was harmed, but it wasn't as bad as we all are thinking.
Or all we all just in denial and trying to justify the situation.

Mentally-harmed and humiliated is harder to cure than physical ones... maybe because it can't be seen. How to cure something you can't see? Unless it gets worse that people might commit suicide or hurt themselves... but yeah, it is an interesting point when Snape's Worst Memory was actually from Harry's view... because it was his father who did it.

There has to be something else that is worse than that, come to think about it... like... while he's a Death Eater and LV did something terrible that made him turn to DD? Maybe killing off his family in front of him? That should be terrifying enough... or..... hurting someone he loved dearly? You know... like his wife? (Louise had turn this theory into a fic and it's really good, if you think this is plausible, consider reading her fic... the link in her siggy... )

It's been my experience that feeling hurt is much worse than feeling angry, because anger creates energy and is simply easier to feel than feeling hurt, which is more of an empty feeling. I think Snape was angry with James and Sirius plenty of times, but somewhere along the line, he was seriously hurt by their antics. Hurt enough, maybe, to overreact and call Lily a filthy Mudblood.

Ooh, that was insightful. I liked that....mmm.....you're right too, anger is much easier to feel than hurt because when you're angry, you're focused into doing something about it. Whether that action is positive or negative is another thing....

I agree with you to a point, but I think it was more likely the other way around....

Snape was probably hurt by James and Sirius' jibes...and probably everyone else's too, after all, he wasn't very popular was he? After a time, that hurt probably resolved into anger and he finally got tired of constantly taking it from James and Sirius and decided to give a little back instead. Quite rightly so, IMHO. I think the attack on Lily was misdirected anger...he wanted to hurt others as he'd been hurt himself.

That kind of bitterness grows in a person over time, if something isn't done to heal it, which is quite possibly part of the reason why Snape is the way he is today.

He's also a little ashamed over what happened - not because of what he did, but because he didn't like his nemesis (i.e Harry) seeing him when he was vulnerable. For a man who values his privacy as much as Snape does, it would have been like kicking him when he was down.

Nice thread. Time for me to try to delve into the mind of Severus Snape. I'm just going to be writing about if he tried or not to let Harry see his pensieve.

First, what do we know about pensieves? They store memories, leaving nothing of said memory except the memory that you put it in there. You can enter the memory and see more than the person who viewed it in the first place saw (Oooo. That could be important for investigating crime scenes with eye witnesses. Reminds me of an essay I had to write for school on a Christmas Carol, explaining why Scrooge's visions of the ghosts were "real".) Other than that, do we really know how a pensieve works, what functions it has? I'd say no.

Second, I'm not going to repost what everyone else wrote above me. Just read the ones suggesting that Snape tried to let Harry see inside.

Thirdly, to get over the issue of why Snape was mad, do we know how or even if you can pick which memory to view in a pensieve? What if Snape wanted Harry to see what his father was in his eyes, but didn't want Harry to see that one? We've never been told how to use a pensieve, but knowing Snape, he knows Harry has used one before, and possibly assumes that he knows how to use it also. Without control over the flow of memories, random ones seem to be picked out of the blue. Perhaps Snape had not counted on this.

I have a question for you guys? What do you think the other two memories are in the pensieve that Snape specifically did not want Harry to see?

Also, Snape said that Harry should have been able to do it because Harry was good at throwing off the imperio curse. Only a few weeks earlier, Harry was able to kick Snape out of his mind and break into Snape's mind!! Maybe Severus was using the memory as an excuse not to teach Harry Occlumency? (Although for what end I can't determine)

Anyways, I just can't believe that Snape would be so foolish as to take his memories out right in front of Harry! Why not take two minutes and do it before hand, especially if you hate and distrust the person in front of you, watching you remove the memories?!

Anyway, do you think the other two memories Snape removed were more of him being humiliated by the Marauders (like James saving his life), or do you guys think that they were Death Eater activities and such?

Sorry I’m a bit confused which two memories?

But with relation to Severus being humiliated and saved by James, I don’t believe necessarily, go hand in hand. I believe Severus never turn on Volde in the first place, because James saved his life. I've posted about this on the ‘Why Snape turned on Voldemort...' thread, but to summarise, Severus accepts that Volde’s hatred of Muggles was wrong before laving Hogwarts. He is then guided under the wing of Dumbledore to use his position as a Slytherin, who was friends with many potential Death Eaters to give him the opportunity to become a pre-emptive spy (if that makes sense), with the perfect cover story. This facade was kept up after Volde’s apparent downfall at Dumbledore’s request because he believed Volde would return.
Thus this memory may have been removed to keep up Severus’ hidden identity as a spy for the order. After all the only people I believe truly Know Severus’ role are Dumbledore and Severus and a few select members of the order, so it would make sense to keep this info from Volde especially as Dumbledore feared Harry was under the control of Volde at the time.

Sorry for writing this as fact. I only realised I did so after proof reading it.

The two memories are two memories that Harry sees Snape put in the Pensieve on one of the ocassions when he goes for an Occlummency class, don´t remember if it´s the first or second or something like that. And I have no idea what they can be. But don´t you think it´s curious that he doesn´t remove a memory like the one with his parents are fighting, where you can see him as a vulnerable little kid????

Mmm, maybe....I don't suppose anyone would want anyone else seeing ANY of their memories though, seeing as how memories are subjective and not recorded on the picture screen on your mind like a video.

Maybe Snape was trying to protect Harry? Maybe he has horrific memories of things he did as a DE that he's not proud of and doesn't want Harry to stumble upon....

I've said before that I think his reasons for hiding the James incident could be either because he's ashamed of his humiliation (completely understandable, IMHO) or because he was trying to protect Harry from the truth about his father. Judging from other things Snape has said about James, I'd say the former is probably more likely.

I think snape was just playing it off pretending that he didn't know what it was because if he showed that he knew then snape would know that harry would probably try to figuare out more about there relationship and whatnot

In repply to SiriusLupin´s post of February 1, Snape didn´t know that Harry would get the chance to peek into the Pensieve. He didn´t know Malfoy was going to come and tell him Montague had appeared. I seem to remember that Malfoy quite urges Snape to go see Montague, and Snape tells Harry goodbye and he´ll see him next day, so he basically tells him to leave his office. As Malfoy is urging him, he doesn´t have the time or maybe simply doesn´t thinkj about hiding the Pensieve, he doesn´t have everything on his mind all the time. I think he didn´t want Harry to see that though or any other, taht´s why he puts them away. But that´s only IMHO.

I don't think Snape really wants to hurt Harry
Snape knows perfectly well about the profecy

As Order member he can hurt Harry and as theacher all he can do is giving him low grades but more he really cant do

besides if he does, Dumbledore might lose some trust in him and i don't think he wants that.

i think that what james did to snape was evil very evil poor snape





not go james go james go go go james ! yes

There is another thing to consider here, and that is, just how accurate the memory is. Sometimes the mind can play tricks on you and the memories you have can be not exactly what really happened. Think back in your memories and then compare them to your brother, sister or friends memories of the same incidents and I would wager they will not be the same. As for purposely leaving selected memories for Harry to see, Snape did that once before and Harry didn't bite. I'm sure Snape was hoping to get Harry's curiosity up to have a look. That particular memory could have been convoluted and made up by Snape for Harry's benefit.

In POA, Snape say's " How extraordinarily like your father you are, Potter.........He too was exceedingly arrogant............Strutting around the place with his friends and admirers..........." It sounds all to made up to be accurate. Because later he says, "I would hate for you to run away with a false idea of your father, Potter.............Have you been imagining some act of horoism? Then let me correct you - your saintly father and his friends played a highly amusing joke on me that would have resulted in my death if your father hadn't got cold feet at the last moment. There was nothing brave about what he did."

I looked for the explanation of this memory, and couldn't find it, but it was a different explanation than Snapes. I think Serius told harry that he sent Snape into the tunnel to the sheiking shack and when James found out about it he went there and pulled Snape out, but not until Snape was able to see Lupin as a werewolf. So there are two different views of the same memory.

I think Snape's hatred of James has skewed his recollection of the times he and James confronted each other. Therefore I believe Snape put that memory in the pensieve just so Harry, as curious as he is and I think Snape knew that, would look. Seeing the look on Harry's face probably justified his attempt to skew Harry's vision of it.

Perhaps his worst memory is seeing the Potters murdered...but that's assuming that Snape was in Godric's Hollow. Maybe he has shown this memory to Dumbledore and that is why Dumbledore is so sure of Snape's regret. (I know...I'm really grasping at straws here but I need to keep telling myself that Snape is on the right side!)

It's strange that Snape had that particular memory in the pensieve. Usually, you would supress unpleasantness/humiliation like that. (I know I do!) I was toying with the idea that perhaps a golden snitch (James was playing with one) was a horcrux (but that's too easy...Harry excels at Quidditch and the climax of the whole story is him catching it and destroying Voldemort!). Maybe he extracted that memory for Dumbledore? I think it was important to Dumbledore that Harry not glorify his parents. He had to understand that they made mistakes and that they also struggled in school. I don't think Harry would take to kindly to anybody saying anything bad his father. It's one of those things you have to see to believe.

mabe the other 2 memories are of snape doin somethin for voldermort r top secret order jobs or something really wicked that james did that he wants to protect harry from who knows? snapes pretty twisted

he know who they are, that is why he get so mad, and Lupin was abset about his map

here is map
<------------

If you believe Snape had feelings for Lilly, then the reason why this is his worst memory might be because of what he said to HER. Nothing to do with James and co.

Snape may not have known that Harry knew what a pensieve was. He had certainly not intended on leaving Harry alone with it and may have thought Harry too stupid to use it anyway.

I believe that Snape may have been trying to kill 2 birds with one stone. We are constantly reminded in Ootp that Voldemort may be reading Harry's thoughts and getting inside his head. At the end of GOF we know that Voldemort believes that Snape has left him forever. Snape somehow manages to get back in the dark lord's good graces (at least enough so to not be killed immediately), but that doesn't mean that Voldemort trusts him completely. Having Harry see that particular memory serves 2 purposes. One purpose is to show James in a bad light to Harry. The other is that if Voldemort sees what Harry sees, it places Snape a little farther down the road to being trusted by Voldemort again, by showing Snape being abused and ganged up on by those in league with Dumbledore (the Marauders), as well as Snape's "feelings" about non-purebloods (Lilly).

I have been reading and listening to OotP lately and after listening, in particular, to this part of the book I feel a need to defend James to some point.

Look I do not condone what he did to Snape, not at all, bullying is bullying after all but the spells he used on Snape where not harmfull spells

James used

Expelliarmus - to disarm
Impedimenta - to knock him of his feet
Scourify - to wash his mouth out ofter being sworn and cursed at

This is where Lily steps in and they have their little discussion. This is where Snape find his feet and and gets his wand and as they turn back to him he, we assume, uses:

Sectumsempra - which leaves a cut on James face

James then uses

Levicorpus

Lily then asks James to let him down in which James does and he then uses

Petrificus Totalus - A full body bind

Lily complains again and he undoes the bind only to have Snape call her a mudblood. James tells Snape to apologise but Lily does not want this and walks away. James then uses Levicorpus once again.

None of the spells James used were used in malice. He used them to entertain and I know it was not the right thing to do but let me point out the one spell that Snape did use was used to cause harm and that one spell could have been alot worse if Snape choose to use it's full force. Luckily he didn't.

I would also like to bring up the fact that in book 6 Snape claims to have invented Levicorpus and complains that James used his own spell against him.

Lupin says also in that book that at one stage the spell was in vogue and you couldn't walk down the corridors of the school with out someone hanging in the air by their ankles.

If he indeed invented the spell he must of used it on someone at some stage and or told someone how to do it for it to be quite popular. James, I don't think, would not have known that he had created the spell unless Snape bragged about it and since James was not the only one using the spell Snape had some nerve in complaining about him using it.

I think that Snape put this particular memory in the pensieve deliberately for Harry to see. Not only for Harry to change his views on not only his father but Sirius but also to get out of teaching him occulemency, which he never really wanted to do in the first place.

Oh not, I'm sure that Snape put the memories in the Pensieve so that Harry would not be able to see them if he succeeded in performing Legilimency on Snape. Snape put his "sensitive memories" in the Pensieve so that he'd be free of them during the Occlumency sessions and Harry wouldn't ever be able to see them.

It is JKR who put the memories there and then made Snape uncharacteristically careless leaving the Pensieve where it could be seen. Because JKR needed Harry to see things about Snape that Snape would never tell him and Dumbledore wouldn't either because that would be to betray Snape's trust. So how could Harry ever learn the things that will help him break through the accumulated prejudice and hatred later? The Pensieve with Snape's Worst Memory is a plot device.
There is another interesting aspect to Snape's action of putting particularly this memory in the Pensieve. Dumbledore alluded to the possibility of ridding yourself of a memory in this way, of clearing your head of it -- not just temporarily but forever, if you wanted to. I forgot in which book, let alone which chapter. However, the scene with Slughorn's memory contradicts the notion that you lose the memory once you extracted it, because Slughorn clearly remembered. Maybe there are two kinds of memory extraction? Because Snape's intent in putting his memories in the Pensieve had undoubtedly been to take the memories out of his head so that Harry couldn't read them.

JKR is usually consistent in describing magical powers, and where she can't, she deliberately keeps things vague. But in the case of memories and Pensieves she is stumbing: she needs this magic to go back in history, reveal Voldemort's background and Snape's, and most of the time it works admirably, but when it comes to the question of whether a person retains a memory after its extraction, she leaves a huge inconsistency that taxes the reader's suspension of disbelief.

Well, I would say JK is pretty consistent...

I, too noticed that certain memories were in the pensieve, and also in someone's head at the same time. With Slughorn, it appears as though he gave Harry a copy of his memory. He altered the memory, handed it to DD, and that was that. All along, he had the true memory in his head. Why couldn't DD just use veritaserum or Legillimency on him? Well, we've already been told that he probably keeps a veritaserum antidote on him at all times. So that one is out. And as far as legillimency goes, he is probably a superb occlumens. He is a slytherin, and he was a head of house, and he is very knowledgeable. I wouldn't put it past him to know exactly how to hide his memory from DD. If we believe all of this, then JK really hasn't made any mistakes... although, I will grant you that the details surrounding memories and pensieves are a bit vague so far...

Then again, DD says that a pensieve is a way to preserve memories when you are forgetting them... so, maybe, DD uses his pensieve to store clear copies of memories, whereas Snape uses it to store the actual memory.

As far as the theories on Snape placing that memory in there for Harry to find, I am going to have to say NO NO NO to that. Look, the chapter is called "Snape's Worst Memory." Think about your worst, most embarassing, horrifying memory. Would you want someone you loathe to the core to see it? I wouldn't . I will agree with those that say it was a mistake. I think that Snape's nasty attitude and refusal to give Harry additional occlumency lessons is proof enough that he didn't mean for Harry to see the memory.

Right, LilyPotter, I guess I had been a bit harsh on JKR in my previous post. The inconsistency isn't really all that huge, and we both surmised that it disappears when we assume that the magic allows you to choose whether to copy or to move the memory.

On the subject of Snape's motives for storing his memories in the Pensieve I have this to add to what I've said before: the first time that Harry broke through and managed to read Snape's memories, he saw several things that Snape would have preferred to keep private. I'm sure that this is the reason why he borrowed Dumbledore's Pensieve and put his "Worst Memory" in there, just in case Harry would be able to break through again.

[color=#339999]woah, awesome theory from siriuslupin...but its just too detailed and thought out to be actually true, i think..as far as we know JKR, she surprises us all ...and well, all of what siriuslupin posted could actually be true...but then, does the title phrase 'Snape's Worst Memory' actually mean 'Harry's worst experience' in other words?? i mean, the explanation is totally possibly true, but then, maybe not...maybe snape just figured he was being awfully childish in PoA and thought he would have to keep a hold on his emotions in control from next time, no matter what harry-the-unpredictable-little-curious-boy-who-lived did from thence forward...so, maybe that was why he was 'shaking with anger' and had a 'pincer grip' on harry's shoulder, because he was trying so hard to keep his undies on and not lose it like last time in PoA ...cant you give the poor tormented guy a rest? and anyway,siriuslupin , are you trying to point out that snape may be happily serving LV to date?

I sort of dread posting something here. This so-called ‘worst memory’ is contains a very precious secret of Snape’s before it was interrupted. The Pensieve in use belongs to Dumbledore and the author makes certain to say that repeatedly. Dumbledore agreed it was something Harry shouldn’t know about. Never forget at the end of the session Severus very carefully replaces it back into his mind. Another thing to to consider is there are three memories he places there.


BTW The pink bubbles were to keep him from uttering a hex.
More BTW – Severing charm only sliced once, so it wasn’t Sectumsempra. It was the same one Ron used to take the ruffles off his dress gown in GoF.

[Mod Edit] Hi there, please watch your tone here. Some members might feel offended by this post. Respect eachothers opinions, and don't emphasize things with the use of your capslock. Thank you.

EDIT
Well said, well put. Adjustments made.

Yes he knew, Moony is Proffesor Lupin's nickname because he is a werewolf. When Snape read Moony a teacher at Hogwarts and Prongs the bully who made his blood boil the most.

I just remembered this post.
Wonder what I was cross about last July…sorry again.

Anyrates! The problem with this Pensieve memory is that we don’t know Snape’s inner thoughts, feelings and most of all what made this moment important to him.

The exciting event for Harry was watching his father and Sirius. He didn’t bother to look closely at the paper Snape was focused on. My best guess is whatever was upon that bit a parchment is the true secret he wanted to hide. Not the embarrassing flagpole drama. Lupin did talk about how that jinx happened constantly to everyone during his schooldays and it shouldn’t be considered important at all. Snape’s parchment probably had something critical and wants that information hidden, but not forgotten, since he carefully replaces it back into his mind.

Interesting thought! You know that deserves a whole new thread!

Hey... wait a minute... Wasn't it the OWL questions he was reading again? I'm not quite sure... I'll check later and edit this post if I have time.

But, if whatever that was contained in that parchment wasn't mentioned, then it's probably important. Remember, when it comes to Harry Potter, what we know is usually what matters.





LET'S ALL PUT OUR TRUST AND SUPPORT IN MY SNAPIE-POO!!!

i dont get why james even bother with saving severes because he is not grate ful at all you can tell he treats harry with no respect at all