Dear Fellow SlytherinHouse Members:

Welcome to your new House Common Room! Here is the place, once you are sorted (or once you have picked your house) that you may come to discuss things with your fellow house members! In the past, we have asked that you only discuss things associated with SlytherinHouse, but in this new thread, we are opening up the possibilities to you! Here is our reasoning: We know that as the fandom of HP must change a bit since the release of the last book, so must the forum to continue to foster interest and discussion. In short, there are only so many things that you can discuss about SlytherinHouse before it has all been discussed and theorized and rehashed.

What this means for you: As long as you have a topic or a question to answer, you may feel free to discuss anything. Please make sure you do not turn the thread into a chat thread where you are just popping in to tell everyone about your day or the things that are happening in your life. We have a couple of chat threads down in the Quidditch Pitch Forum where you may discuss those types of things. We also have a chat room where you can go to chat with your friends from the forums.

Please feel free to discuss any aspect of SlytherinHouse, life issues, reactions to news, Harry Potter, opinions and ideas on non-personal subjects, etc. Almost anything goes! If the mods feel you’ve gone a bit off track, we’ll post a gentle reminder. If the thread turns into a chat thread, you’ll get a less friendly reminder.

Another thing, keep in mind that though this Common Room is for Slytherin, you might have visitors from other houses come to see what you’re up to. Please do not treat these visitors as hostile spies, but please treat them as honored guests in your house. Sometimes it’s good to get outside opinions on things from a different house’s perspective.

If you have any questions about the new direction of the Common Room, please just send your Owl my way. 

The latest question from your previous thread is this:

What would happen if Scorpio Malfoy (Draco's son) was sorted into Gryffindor like Serious Black did, or will Albus Severus Potter (Harry's second son after James Potter) become a slytherin?And will Scorpio become friends with Albus ? Why and Why not.

Thank you, Passerby ! Definitely clears up somethings I was curious about.

As I have already answered the aforementioned question, here's a new one that I've been pondering about:

Why are the Slytherin Common Rooms located beneath the lake ? I know it is because Slytherin is roughly associated with the element of Water, but why is our element water ? I was actually rather surprised when I found out that it was, because it never struck me as Slytherin = Water.

I realize that it runs as such:
Gryffindor = Fire.
Ravenclaw = Air.
Hufflepuff = Earth.

It just seems to me that Slytherin got the leftover element, not that I'm against water, the pieces just don't fit in my head for some reason (haha, reference to my puzzle-obsession).

~ihkny

Oh, I don't see that water is a left over element at all. Water is an awesome element. I'll explain: It's symbolism is vast and mighty.

Water unceasingly changes shapes and transforms itself (the water cycle is often a symbolism for our lives from birth to death in literature). Because it a symbol out of which everything can be born, water also becomes a symbol of fertility that can be found in mythology. Beings and things are born of water. Water also possesses medicinal virtues. Some waters are recognized miraculous powers capable of healing the bodies. It is also a source of purification. Purification for the individual beings but also for the whole of mankind. Let's not forget certain iconic fountains such as the Fountain of Youth. This river Styx served as a crossroads where the world of the living met the world of the dead, and the world of the mortal met the world of the immortal. In certain literature, (think Tuck Everlasting), drinking from a certain spring will grant the drinker eternal life.

Water is also a powerful force. It has the ability to destroy civilizations. Water is a dangerous element where many authors have spent their writings telling us of the horrors of the sea, and of the triumph of those few who make it back from their Odysseys.()

So, no, water is not a left-over element that was arbitrarily assigned to Slytherin. I think it fits the house quite well - the liquid quality of certain members of the house.

As I was thinking of lakes, I was thinking about certain mysterious appeals of different lakes. We've got Loch Ness in Scotland. We've got the Lady of the Lake in Arthurian legend. The Lake of Fire also comes to mind. And thinking of being underneath a lake. . .how dark would it be? Perhaps it's to showcase the darkness of the stigma of the house.

Why are the Slytherin Common Rooms located beneath the lake ? I know it is because Slytherin is roughly associated with the element of Water, but why is our element water ? I was actually rather surprised when I found out that it was, because it never struck me as Slytherin = Water.

I realize that it runs as such:
Gryffindor = Fire.
Ravenclaw = Air.
Hufflepuff = Earth.


That is a very good question indeed. Slytherin=Water...Hmmmm.. Maybe that is why the House Common rooms were placed the way that they were at Hogwarts...Ok Gryffindor is up on the 7th floor, maybe the significance is that it is close to fire?? Ravenclaw's dorm is up in a tower since they are Air maybe because they are high up is because they are in the air...Hufflepuff is Earth so that is why they are down near the kitchens to be close to the Earth...And our beloved Slytherin is located in the Dungeons under the lake to be near the Water...Why they put those four elements with each house is interesting. Maybe this was done because of what each Element represents is also what each House represents as well. I have not studied up on the four elements and what they all stand for in awhile but this seems to be the reasoning behind why the houses are affiliated with these.

Marcey

Hello I am just visiting from Ravenclaw. I never knew that the houses represented the four elements. That is very interesting indeed. Well its been nice visiting, I think I am off to get some pudding. Gooday!

I think water fits Slytherin very much. Slytherins are very adaptable and changeable to suit their needs. So is water. Water can take many forms: steam, liquid, and ice. Water also always takes the easiest path between point A and point B. I think it's a good element to represent a house that is known for it's ambition and cunning.

Also, I agree with the elements for the other houses.

I think it fits, becuase Serpents move in all derections. They kinda move like water flowing. If that makes any sense. Its nice talking about this kinda stuff.

Ah, I suppose I shouldn't have called it a left-over element, I certainly don't think of it like that, just that it didn't seem to fit to me.

However, I am so glad people are responding to the question and I loved your explanation for Water, Passerby, as well as Alannah's insight on Slytherins being like water. When you said that it always takes the easiest path from Point A to Point B I really thought, "Yep, water is Slytherin."

I was doing some research on it myself; all of the elements and not just water, to see how much each element really relates to its corresponding House and found some pretty interesting facts.

DracosLady questioned how Gryffindor being in the highest tower of the school correlated with fire, well this is why they are situated there; the quality of fire moves upward rather than downward, as well as being related to that of the sun and light of day. It is often partnered with that of Air, which is Ravenclaw and that house is also placed in a tower that rises to the sky. Air compliments Fire as it tends to act as a fuel for it, Fire cannot exist without oxygen. Fire and Air symbolize the masculine archetype, the active state(Gryffindors are known to act first are they not?) and the thinking state (Ravenclaws are known for their intelligence and wit). Funnily enough fire is related to lightning - Harry Potter's scar, anyone ?

Oddly enough, Water and Earth are considered the female archtype, the passive state and the intuitive state. Earth is the intuitive, which fits with Hufflepuff rather well, however, Water being the element for Slytherins and being passive had me going - 'Durhuh?' I can't really begin to explain or understand that. Water does move downward though, which clues us in to why the Slytherin Commons are located within the lowest part of the castle and beneath a lake, no less.

Water can identify with numerous states such as clear, dead, deep, fresh, running, stagnant and stormy to name a few. It also has levels; higher water can be associated with unification while lower waters have the symbolism of chaos or the ever-changing world. Slytherins do tend to stick together, and can definitely create chaos.

Each Element also has a corresponding Humor (this is meant both as illness and temperament) and Season:

Gryffindor: Fire > Yellow Bile > Choleric > Summer; Yellow Bile is hot and dry, remedied by its opposite; Phlegm which is cold and moist (Water). One who is choleric is hot-tempered. Fire is related to the heat of summer.

Ravenclaw: Air > Blood > Sanguine > Spring; Blood is hot and moist, remedied by Black Bile, cold and dry. One who is sanguine is optimistic and confident, however, sanguinary means murderous and bloodthirsty, perhaps there are aspects of Rowena Ravenclaw we do not know ? A brief connection of word play sort of. Helena Ravenclaw was killed by the Bloody Baron who loved her (Blood, Murderous !). Spring is the time for growth and development. *Blink* Sounds more Hufflepuff to me...

I've read that Ravenclaw basically instigated the confrontation between Godric Gryffindor and Salazaar Slytherin. Apparently she was angered by Slytherin's opposition to muggleborns as she was teaching some very promising students that were of muggle origin. She approached Gryffindor about the clash of views and he confronted Slytherin, which resulted in his departure.

Hufflepuff: Earth > Black Bile > Melancholic > Autumn ; Black Bile is cold and dry. One who is melancholic is depressed, sad, dejected. Odd. Was Helga Hufflepuff perhaps not as happy as everyone thought ? I could see her being upset by the split of the four founders. This also is interesting to me as in the Hufflepuff thread they were pondering over the Fat Friar, their house ghost, who is said to be cheerful and forgiving, but JKR has stated that ghosts are generally unhappy. Is he hiding his true feelings ? Did Helga Hufflepuff hide her feelings ? Very peculiar ! Autumn is a period of maturity and beginning of decline. Earth is commonly related to the words sustenance, fecundity, and inexhaustible creativity. Sustenance = gives support, strength, endurance; living, provisions. Fecundity = fruitful in offspring and/or vegetation.

I really find it odd that Earth is melancholic and Ravenclaw is sanguine. It seems to me that these two should be switched, as Helga was an optimistic, confident, and cheerful woman whereas Rowena died of a broken heart, which would mean depressiong, sadness, and dejection.

Slytherin: Water > Phlegm > Phlegmatic > Winter; Phlegm is cold and moist. One who is phlegmatic has a slow or very little temperament. Winter is a period of inactivity or decay.

Water flowing downward often times symbolizes the flow of time. The fact that it flows downward could possibly be a metaphor for the decline of the pureblooded lines, maybe. At times water in movement can have more aspects of the masculine archtype (meaning it is not so passive afterall).

Each house has distinctive colors that they are recognized by, and I've seen many wonder about the schemes chosen, it actually has to do with the element that corresponds to said house.

* The Gryffindor colors are gold and scarlet, both of which are shades of red/orange/yellow; colors associated with fire.
* The Ravenclaw colors are blue and bronze; the colors associated with air are gold and blue, so close enough I guess.
* The Hufflepuff colors are the only ones that actually hit right on the mark with black and yellow, while earth also includes brown, the house has the same as its element.
* The Slytherin colors are silver and green, while its element of water is defined by the colors of blue and green. I prefer to have silver and green anyway, haha.

I hope you all found this as interesting as I did, lol !

~ihkny

Wow thank you for going through all that trouble to find that stuff out. Its very interesting. What would be funny is if Jk didn't even mean for it to be like that and the fans figured that out LOL. well thanks again bye.

ihkny, my dear cousin, you really have outdone yourself. It is very interesting how closely all of those match up with the individual houses. I love what you mentioned about water flowing downward could represent the decline of the purebloods. Maybe it also represents the dilution of the rest of wizarding blood?

Also, from what I've read of JKR she researches things very throughly so Loony'sCool, I can almost guarantee that JKR knew exactly what the house's represent.

Okay! Thank you for telling me. You probally think I am a fool for thinking she didnt know. I bet theres many secrets waiting to be discoverd about HP like what she meant and stuff.

No, Loony'sCool, I don't think you're a fool. Just not very well-versed in Potterness.

Also, they have an interesting question over at the Gryffindor thread, discussing why Voldemort didn't have a Gryffindor horcrux.

So my question for Slytherins is:

Do you think Voldemort would have wanted a horcrux representing Gryffindor? Why, or why not?

Do you think Voldiekins would have wanted a horcrux representing Gryffindor? Why, or why not?

Boo, we've discussed this with eachother, so I know your standpoint and agree with it, so I'm unoriginal ! I'd say no, as Harry Potter was an 'accidental' horcrux, so I kind of think sweetcheeks Voldiecakes wasn't really interested in one. Most likely due to the fact that he loathed Gryffindors and anything having to do with them.

~ Snootchy Bootchies !

I know I've already discussed this with you, lol.

Anyway, I'm going to state my opinion, which is basically what ihkny has put: Voldiepoo would not have wanted a Gryffindor horcrux and Harry was a mistake.

Also, thanks dear cousin for making my spectacular Voldiepoo avatar.

ihkny that was such an interesting "psychology like" analysis od the Houses and what all of their elements and colors mean and how they relate. That was really amazing...That must have taken you quite awhile to find all of that info out

Do you think Voldiekins would have wanted a horcrux representing Gryffindor? Why, or why not?


No I don't think he would have wanted a Horcrux representing Gryffindor, he already had the items from the other three Houses and I believe Harry was the missing link he was looking for related to Gryffindor. He wanted Harry for what he thought Harry could do for him. He wanted his power and to vanquish him so that he (Voldy) could be the most powerful wizard and not Harry, cause Voldy was scared of what he knew Harry was capable of.....

Who is the most complex charactor in Slytherin and why?

I feel as if in alot of ways that Malfoy is the most complex. He is so due to the fact of his ever changing personality and the actions that he has taken over the years. He goes from hot to cold on so many different occasions you don't know what he will do next. He is like a tiger changing his spots. He will surprise you with every twist and turn. At one minute you don't know if he is going to do something really bad or if he is going to turn the other cheek and turn good....That is why I feel he is the most complex....

Whats everyone else's thoughts?

Marcey

Ugh, I've stayed awake all night and I'm dead tired. I want to throw a short answer out to the question though.

As far as the most complex character in Slytherin, that would depend on if we're going with characters currently in Slytherin, or if we're including all characters that were ever in Slythie.

If we're going with current Slythie's then I would have to agree with Draco. If we're going with former Slythie's then I vote for either Snape or Voldiepoo (both of whom I love to pieces).

Snape because he obviously had many different facets to his personality, only a few of which I believe we saw in the books.

Voldie because well, he's Voldie and he's insane.

I'm sorry; I'm tired. I'll write something more clever later.

Urgh I just typed out this entire post and then lost it... I'lll try again but it will probably be rubbishy

ihkny, That information is really interesting. I am generally interested in the symbolism of elements/colours/amimals(as patronus) etc in hp verse anyway, so it's really nice to see such an indepth analysis of the links between elements and houses. However... even without that explanation, I definitely think of Slytherin as the house that corresponds with water, though that may be influenced by the fact that I 'see' a lot of the elemnent of water in my own character.
One thing that I find especially interesting is the fact that Slytherin is linked with being Passive. Thinking about it, I suppose that a lot of the time, they do wait until the opportune moment to act, whereas Gryffindors may act first and think later. To some, this may seem as though Slytherins lack will and energy, when in fact, they are just waiting for everything to be perfect.
This could also be linked to water again- water, and slytherins, can sometimes be still and unmoving, and at other times move like lightning and strike before you even know they've moved. Sometimes water can seem fairly calm, but beneeth the surface undercurrents can rage, and it is often these that are most dangerous. I believe, that whilst Slytherins can be linked Passiveness, this is just a perception of others, one that can often be very dangerous.
Of course, these interpretations are all very personal, and one thing can be interpreted in a thousand different ways. As for me, I just like exploring possible links and meanings, even if they are very unlikely.

Do you think that Voldemort wanted a Horcrux representative of Gryffindor?
On one hand, no. He didn't seem to like Gryffindors, though to be perfectly honest he didn't really seem to like anybody, and not having a horcrux to represent Gryffindor would mean that he had no link to the house, as well as insulting it. As the only house to be left out of the horcruxes, it may be seen as Voldemort's attempt at an insult.

On the other hand, and what I think is the most likely hand... he would definitely have wanted a gryffindor Horcrux. As a boy, he colleccted bellongings of the people that he hated. In the orphanage, he took things from the children that he hated the most, to remind himself that he was stronger than them, he had 'conquered' them. Because of this, he would have wanted a Horcrux to represent Gryffindor because he had to prove, to him and to everybody else, that he was strongest. Leaving Gryffindor until last would double as an insult and an honour- an insult that Gryffindor was not first on his list, but an honour because the horcrux made from the Gryffindor relic would be the strongest (as he would have perfected the technique) as well as the 'completing' horcrux- the 7th.
Voldemort, and indeed Riddle, was always somebody who needed to feel as though he had won, someone who thrived on the power gained from overcoming an adversary. He would want a hrocrux of every one of his enemies, because it would prove to everybody, that he was stronger.

Who is the most complex charactor in Slytherin and why?

A suprisingly difficult question there Marcey... When I start thinking about the members of slytherin, at first they all seem exceptionally complex, but then when it boils down to it, I see that they are all driven by particular things, all have fairly clear to see purposes to their struggles, and are all fairly consistant in their character (although the points you raise about Draco are very valid).
Tom Riddle is driven by power, and a need to prove himself and his power. He is somebody who is open about his intentions, somebody who will do anything to achieve his goals, and somebody who has the power and intelligence to suceed. However, he sometimes underestimates the power of things he doesn't understand. He assumes that everybody will be weakened by physical pain- as Dumbledore explains in the cave in HBP, which is a rather naive thought. He also consistantly fails to understand how love can be so powerful- probably because he has never felt, and therefore never even begun to understand it.
In this, he is a complex character- even though his character is easy to read. What is complex is that he is so contradictory; he places such importance on power, but refuses to see the greatest power of all. He wants knowledge, but refuses to learn from his mistakes, and refuses to learn things that he feels he will never need to use. It seems for all his power, he repeatably makes the same simple mistakes.

Severus Snape is another who is fuelled by a need. His need is for redemption, and for forgiveness. However, he is more complex, as he doesn't quite understand his own need. He fights for forgiveness, yet he doesn't know that the only forgiveness he needs is from himself. He doesn't seem to want forgiveness or even accceptance from the outside world, but it does play some part in his motivation. At times it is really very confusing as to whether he cares what others think or not, he can be unpredictable to the extreme, more so because he is not consistantly unpredictable. Sometimes he does what you expect, and you can see his drive an motivation, whilst at other times he seems driven by things only he knows, and does things in, and out of character.

Draco Malfoy, as Marcey explained, has an ever changing character. However, I really don't see him as a complex character. True, you never really know what he is going to do, like Severus, but he seems to be driven by a consistant force- to care for him self and his family. He cares what people think of him, and he too craves the feelings of power that he has over other poeople, although he doesn't take this to the extreme that Riddle did. Maybe when he was older and free from the restraints of his father and Voldemort, he would develop into an extrememly complex character- as he would be fueled and haunted by a complicated past. But, as he is, I dont see him as complex.

Overall, I would have to say Severus is the most complex Slytherin, though the other two mentioned have the potential to be very complex characters.


opps.. long post, sorry

Clara}~

Do you think that Voldemort wanted a Horcrux representative of Gryffindor? As Clara said on her other hand. . .Voldemort would not have been put off by the hatred he had for Gryffindor - but he would be drawn by it. Drawn to get something of Gryffindor's that he could manipulate to prove his power to the world. And I'm not entirely sure Voldemort loathed Gryffndors. He loathed weakness and half-bloods. He loathed muggle-borns and muggles. Snape loathed Gryffindors. Slytherin turned on Gryffindor - but I'm not sure that Voldemort was as put off by them. They are just another means to an end to him, as everyone else is. So, yes, I think he would have wanted to artifact from Gryffindor to prove his might over the whole magical community. It's just that he couldn't get it. That sword was completely protected.

EDIT: Oops! It was indeed Clara's other hand! Sorry about that! Should not try to reply to posts when simultaneously yelling at my children. Bad things happen.

That was Clara's other hand

I agree that he didn't have a special hatred for Gryffindor. Its not just that they were a means to an end, it was more than that. School was a means to an end for Riddle, so in that sense he wasn't 'sucked in' by what he may of seen as petty school rivalries. However, because of that rivalry between Slytherin and Gryffindor, he may have thought that him not making a horcrux representative of Gryffindor would have been seen as him not being strong enough- purely because of the rivalry that he didn't seem to be part of.

Do you think that Voldemort wanted a Horcrux representative of Gryffindor?

Well, to go off on another sector of this question; I'm going to continue with my previous answer of no, he did not want a horcrux made out of a Gryffindor heirloom. Why ? Simply because Voldiecakes did not want others to know about his means of "immortality". Do you get where I am going with this ? Each of the other heirlooms - Slytherin's locket/ring, Ravenclaw's diadem, and Hufflepuff's cup were all accessible outside of Hogwarts School of Witchcraft and Wizardy. These items were not kept track of and who knew where they could possibly be in the world today after the generations they were passed down through. This leaves Voldiepoo with the shroud of secrecy; he did NOT want others to know that his soul was split into seven (one accidental - which happens to be the Gryffindor horcrux whether or not it was realized) pieces and placed into items to create Horcruxes to use to resurrect himself with.

So after discussing all of that, let's focus on the two Gryffindor artifacts; The Sword and the Hat, both of which were highly protected, well-known items located within Hogwarts. Had he acquired these items and used them in his plans, it is extremely possible that what he had done would be found out much sooner than it was (well, I mean, besides Dumbles knowing). Yes, he wanted items that belonged to the founders because he loved Hogwarts, it was his home, however, the Gryffindor items just weren't ideal pieces to use in the grand scheme of things.

Who is the most complex charactor in Slytherin and why?

Well, any character can be considered complex, can't they ? The Bloody Baron killed the woman he loved in a fit of rage and jealousy and then proceeded to murder himself in regret, if that isn't a bit of a twisted concept then I don't know what is. Draco's actually a pretty simple character for me, he's much like the character of Regulus Black; drawn by the ideals and promises of power, but just can't stomach the real deal. All bark and no bite, you know ?

Snape is definitely a beautifully crafted character and would be my top choice as he has so many dimensions and a hidden personality that we really can't even begin to know since he was killed off before we had the chance to get more in-depth. Snape whose father beat him and his mother, yet still loved a muggleborn and would do anything to protect her at any cost, even himself, and so many other levels we just don't know.

Voldiecakes is surely very intriguing but he's a bit easier to figure out than Snape and probably even Bellatrix, as we know where his hatred and superiority complex come from.

Speaking of Bella, what made that chick go insane and kinky ? That's a character I'd really love to know the past about. And of course I think Andromeda (Black) Tonks would be interesting and complex, being raised as a Black and being in the house of Slytherin yet defying it all ? That just makes her awesome, in my honest opinion.

What do you think Draco would have been like, had he had siblings ? Do you think he would be different ? Protective of them ?

~ihkny

Firstly, hello fellow Slytherins!

What would happen if Scorpio Malfoy (Draco's son) was sorted into Gryffindor like Serious Black did, or will Albus Severus Potter (Harry's second son after James Potter) become a Slytherin? And will Scorpio become friends with Albus? Why and Why not?

Well if Scorpius was sorted into Gryffindor, I think that would show a lot about Draco. His traits were of Slytherin because of the way he was brought up- Draco owes the trio his life and so might not have seen that Gryffindor was such a bad place to be. He was sort against just for being in Slytherin, so would he really want that for his only child? Doubt it.
I think it would rose’s work that would bring Malfoy and Albus together- I don't why but I just do.
I doubt that Albus would be put in Slytherin. Rowling said that harry was only nearly put in Slytherin because he had a bit of Lord Voldemort in him, as the horcrux.
However, I think that Albus, who seems so like his father could possibly go into Slytherin but chose Gryffindor over it- he will like his father have that thirst to prove himself and is cunning etc.


Why are the Slytherin Common Rooms located beneath the lake? I know it is because Slytherin is roughly associated with the element of Water, but why is our element water?

Wow that’s interesting. I thought maybe it was just the left over, but reading ihkny’s answer and analysis of the four elements, I think that water makes a good one for Slytherin, especially the pureblood line.
Also Earth Wind (AIR) and fire is a common phrase whereas water is separated, like Slytherins are divided from the other houses. Plus water quenches fire, so this instigates the feud between Slytherin and Gryffindor.


Do you think Voldemort would have wanted a horcrux representing Gryffindor? Why, or why not?

Partly not, because he thought he was everything a Gryffindor isn’t. Plus harry as a horcrux would make it harder to kill him.
But if we are talking an object of Gryffindor, like the sword, I think that it is more probable that Lord Voldemort would want a Gryffindor horcrux. He loved Hogwarts, so it’s another thing to bind him to it and also it would be a nice slap in the face for the Gryffindor and Godric, so to speak.

Who is the most complex character in Slytherin and why?

Well we don’t know many Slytherins inside and out, other than perhaps, by the end of the series Voldemort. I don't think he is that complex, because really he is a weak, readable person- he does not have a personality and needs to feel worshiped to be secure.
Draco is a bit more complex- he has moments where he seems to regret and in HBP he appears weak and this makes him pitiable.
Then there’s the blacks- like Bellatrix and Regulus- we don't know much about them other than life as a death eater and Bellatrix’s obsessions against dirtied blood and half breeds.
Luscious- well don't really see much of him.
Then also there is Snape. As the audience is left swinging round for the majority of the series, wondering who he is actually triple-double-crossing. We then * as a general assumption* most people decide he is on the dark side. When actually he was not. His love for Lily shows a new person and adds numerous dimensions to his character. I think he is the most complex Slytherin.

What do you think Draco would have been like, had he had siblings? Do you think he would be different? Protective of them?

Very good question. I think he would secretively be protective, but as it seems the Malfoy family boot whoever they feel into the firing line, they are pretty selfish. Only when Narcissa begs to not make Draco kill Dumbledore do we see them looking out for each other. And also after harry is killed we see her using people to ensure her child is safe.
I think that Draco would parade his sibling around, but not allow them to be in danger- look at how attached he is to Crabbe and Goyle. People would assume this is because he does not want his sibling to be more popular but really Draco is protecting them.

What do you think Draco would have been like, had he had siblings? Do you think he would be different? Protective of them?

Interesting...He would have acted towards a sibling the same way as he acted towards the rest of his family- in Public he was fiercy protective of them and everything they stood for- family was always a matter of pride to him, and many other Slytherins. However, Privately I think there would be a lot of competition, and perhaps some resentment. I guess I'm saying the complete opposite of rach2603 here, but I honestly think that because Draco is somebody who needs to be made to feel wanted and safe, his actions could become very selfish, and he would want to be seen by the people close to him, as 'better' than a sibling.
As for his actual character, maybe he would have been less spoilt, which in turn may have led to him being less arrogant, as he would realise that he didn't have it all. He may also have been more ambitious, as he would know that he actually had to work to get all the attention from his parents.

Its interesting really; how the family dynamic is such an integral part of many slytherins' lives. One of the questions on the sorting here at vtm is (or was) about choosing family or friends - or something along those lines. I really see Slytherins as people to whom having a family that they are proud, and protective of, is very important. Pride is a huge thing, maybe something that stemmed from the idea of Slytherin house only accepting the best of the best, and it would affect the way any of them, espeically those like draco, would react to family members.
Its an interesting topic- Slytherin and the things in which they place their pride.

Clara}~

*peeks in* Erm, hi, I know I'm not a Slytherin, but what the hey, I'm visiting.

What do you think Draco would have been like, had he had siblings? Do you think he would be different? Protective of them?

I think it depends on if the sibling was younger or older, and if the sibling was a sister or a brother. I definitely think that if he had an older sibling, and especially an older brother, he would probably be like clara morgue said~competitive and resentful. But I think that maybe if he had a younger sister, he would be more protective towards her, and kind of change his attitude to be more of a role model. Just maybe.

(Edit) Whoops. Or if he had a younger brother. I meant a younger sibling in general...I think he would be protective and much nicer, at least to that little brother or sister!

What do you think Draco would have been like, had he had siblings? Do you think he would be different? Protective of them?

Whoops, I forgot to be clear on this. I was looking through fanart and came across an illustration of Draco holding a little boy that looked like him. I thought it was very cute adn found myself wondering: What would Draco be like if he had a younger brother ? So yes, younger and a brother being the actual focus of this question.

I think he would have been different, and very protective of him. I think it would have been a very awesome aspect for Draco to have a younger brother that he would feel the need to protect from the rest of the world; especially from Voldemort. I wonder if he wouldn't have even joined the Death Eaters ? I'm sure he would still be the snooty, pureblood supremacy preaching prat he is, but rather different towards this one person. I imagine a younger brother not in Hogwarts while he is there, perhaps in the 5-7 age or younger, no idea though.

I've got more to add on the Gryffindor Horcrux deal, but I need to go eat so I'll have to answer it later !

~ihkny

I had a whole typed response and then I clicked something and it went away.

Anyway, I don't think Draco would be much different if his siblings were far enough in age that they weren't at Hogwarts together.

However, I can see Draco being even more of a prat than he is now if he had an older sibling, especially a brother, that he was trying to compete with.

I can also see Draco being very protective of younger siblings or a sister. But I don't think that would change his attitude to other people.

I don't picture Draco being a nicer person or anything of that sort. I doubt Lucius or Narcissa would have made the siblings share or anything. I can only picture Draco being worse from trying to stand out.

And I am back to bring up the Gryffindor Horcrux again; seems to be a topic I can't let go and I'm sure you all wish I would.

Right so, I was reading about the Sword and the Hat earlier today; special qualities they possess, a little of their history, etc. I'll start with the hat.

The Sorting Hat is a sentient artifact; it can think for itself, form its own sentences and ideas, be creative and communicate with others. A talking Horcrux (haha, Harry's one but he doesn't really realize such) probably isn't the best idea for a Horcrux, especially if it was re-discovered by the light side - it could possibly (assuming Voldiecakes didn't perform magic to shut it up) blab everything it witnessed upon the soul displacement. Not to mention that at the end of the book Voldiepoo put the Sorting Hat upon Neville's head and set it aflame. Doesn't really sound like he cares too much about this relic even if he does cherish the heirlooms of the other founders. One would think he would not want to destroy an item that was imbued with a piece of Salazar Slytherin - right ? I know the reasoning behind the burning of the Hat was to abolish the other Houses - but don't you think he would still want to keep it if he did want to show some kind of triumph over Gryffindor by having it as a Horcrux or in his possession ? I suppose one can only assume that he just does not consider Gryffindor even worth his time, as has been mentioned. It is also kept within the Headmaster's office, making it nearly impossible to steal, and if it was... well it would be noticed very quickly.

Now, for the Sword; many times throughout the series the Sword of Godric Gryffindor was procured from within the Sorting Hat (also Gryffindor's) to those that show a true quality of Gryffindor - bravery in the face of danger. Had Voldemort taken the Sword (and not the Hat by some odd chance) the first problem that I see is that it would not stay in the place he had hidden it for protection. an easily accessible Horcrux just isn't a good idea for him, like I've said before. The Sword also has the unique ability to absorb anything stronger than itself, making it even more powerful. Had Voldiecakes placed a fragment of soul within this item, would it be safe to say it is a stronger element and the Sword would absorb it ? What kind of effects could a piece of Voldemort's soul have on the Sword, or vice versa ? Could such a small sliver of someone's Soul be considered weak ? In which case, it could have an adverse effect and the Sword could extenguish that which made it a Horcrux in the first place, returning it to its normal state of just Godric Gryffindor's Sword ? That scenario would render it a useless candidate in Voldiepoo's plans.

So, I'm still sticking with No; he does/did not want a Gryffindor Horcrux, because there is a fine line between Genius and Insanity and Voldie seems to walk it. He's not stupid, and his choice not to mess with Gryffindor items could be because they just weren't ideal for his purpose or because it is also insulting to show that they are not worth anything to him. It's like saying "Be the bigger man and walk away/let it go." To me it is more insulting to not even been considered than for someone to be so obsessed they just - must- have something to show their dominance and victory over said person/object. I think to Voldemort the feud between Gryffindor/Slytherin was not as big of an issue as Purebloods against Muggleborns. I hope I've conveyed what I mean well enough, was kind of hard for me to word what I mean. It's like this, I guess.

Someone taunts you, but you don't rise to the bait; that is way more of a slight to one's pride than anything you could ever say in retaliation of what they have said/done to you. So by completely snubbing Gryffindor, it's almost like saying "You're so beneath me you don't even exist, so you do not matter, you are not important." And this is how I think Voldemort would have been, instead of letting Gryffindor win by obsessing over possessing his artifacts as Horcruxes, he chose not to even recognise them. Right, I'll shut up now !

~ihkny

The purpose of the Horcruxes was to reach immortality,or as you say ihkny to ensure resurrection. Hw many do you need to attain this power? One? Two? LV went all the way up to six/seven. Had he not had to deal with HP who is to say he would have stopped at Nagini? He could have very well kept on going and Gryffindor's relics could have been on his list.

While it is true that he burned the Hat, and that can be interpreted of him not carrying for Gryffindor's relics, I don't believe that is the case. LV could have simply been at a point where he felt he was going to win this war and there would be no need to continue making Horcruxes. Thats why he so freely burned the hat. He no longer felt threatend. Had that situation not arrived, had he still felt a need to continue making them he may not have burned that hat. I understand that he was making Horcruxes long before Harry came along, but his need to survive is much more severe than it was in the beginning.

Why was Ravenclaw and Hufflepuff important to him, but not Gryffindor? Why were their relics important enought to be made into Horcruxes but not Godric Gryffindor's items?

Voldemort was able to get Gaunt's ring, Slytherin's Locket and the cup all on his own and albeit it wasn't hard for him to do; he still achieved it nonetheless. He had plently of followers at his disposal not to mention the said followers' children (ie: Draco) to do his bidding. If he wanted to get Gryffindor's sword or the hat,Voldemort would have found a way to get it.

Is it not safe to say as well that making a human or animal a Horcrux (even though he didn't mean for Harry to become one, he meant for Nagini to be one) is just as dangerous as making the hat or sword one? Nagini or Harry could have been killed/destroyed at any time by anyone either on purpose or accident. Sure the Hat could have talked and the sword could have disappered at the whim of someone who needed it, but making either of these
a Horcrux is playing a game of risk.

I think that the only reason Gryffindor's artifacts were not used as Horcruxes is, like you said ihkny, because they simply couldn't be used. That being the case, I don't think that LV was any less interested in having them. You know the term "You want what you can't have"? Well I think that was LV. He seems like the type of person that if there is something in his world that he can't have or use, that will just make him all the more angry and want it even more. Not the other way around. In many ways LV was still like a child. He never knew love or friendship. So being the bigger person and walking away does not seem like
a typical LV thing to do. Does it? I can see him being snobby and going along the lines of "you are so beneath me I don't even acknowledge you" but I still stand by that LV couldn't stand for there to be magical relics in his world that he could not use or obtain. I think it would drive him mad! I can't see him walking away from it. I see him trying to find some way around it. I mean LV was obsessed with making the world bow at his feet, making
the world completely pureblood and making himself immortal. Who's to say he wouldn't be obsessed with this???

You have a good point about what would happen had a piece of LV's soul being put into the sword.You had a lot of good points in your thread by the way. You always do! Either of those scenerios would/could happen. If LV knew the power of the sword and what would happen this might be the reason the sword was never attempted at being turned into a Horcrux. However, that does not diminishes LV's want or need to obtain it. Lord Voldemort was considered to be the most dangerous wizard of that time. Who knows what could have happened if his soul was absorbed by the sword? Maybe only a true Slytherin could use the sword (I know I'm reaching now) but I can't think of any examples at the moment!

Anyways, I'm totally an intruder! A Hufflepuff no less! I probably made no sense! And you all probably want to throw apples at me but there's my two cents! Its pass 9:00 pm, I shouldn't have posted anyways!

'Isn't seven the most powerfully magical number?
-- Tom Marvolo Riddle to Horace Slughorn (HBP23)'

Of course, seven wasn't actually his goal, according to Dumbles it was six. They're both powerful magical numbers, in any case, and thirteen might be a bit much. I think he wanted seven, though, and Dumblie didn't realize that he had intended to make a Horcrux out of Harry's death, and had made one albeit, unintentionally and unrealized until even after his own death. Of course, unless Dumbledore just did not feel like Harry needed to know that little tidbit of information, that the Scar on his forehead was infact, something that needed destroying. Anyway...

Thanks dearest cousin Alannah. Think that answers the whole "Why stop at Nagini, at 7?" or whatever you asked Silly Seester o' Mine. Because it was magical and because it was powerful. Heh.

Aren't you sort of contradicting yourself ? First you're saying he could have gone for more Horcruxes and now you're saying he wouldn't feel the need to make anymore because he thought he had won ? Firstly, I'd like to throw back out there that by this point in the novel Voldiecakes was well aware of the fact that the Golden Trio had been destroying his Horcruxes and Nagini was the only one left at this point to ensure he still had a soul fragment for revival - so if indeed he wanted a Gryffindor heirloom as a Horcrux, I highly doubt he'd start burning it up to destroy it. I am unaware of Voldemort ever expressing the fear of anything/anyone aside from Dumbledore (Who probably couldn't have killed him because he wasn't the 'chosen one') being a threat. The Horcruxes were created because he was afraid of Death, I suppose that could be what he felt "threatened" by, and in anycase, just because he had won the War and no longer had to worry about the Boy Wonder defeating him, he would still need/want more Horcruxes to ensure his "immortality". Just imagine Voldiecakes doing the Z-snap and saying "Uh uh, no way, no how !" to Death and starting over on the wonderful soul splitting process. Not really sure what your standpoint is either, Tonya, are you saying he would want Gryffindor Horcruxes or wouldn't ? I thought we were asking a Yes or No question with explanations to it or something, lol. Also, the burning of the Sorting Hat was to symbolize the abolishment of the other houses, that they were no all to be considered Slytherins.

QUOTE

He had plently of followers at his disposal not to mention the said followers' children (ie: Draco) to do his bidding. If he wanted to get Gryffindor's sword or the hat,Voldemort would have found a way to get it.

Precisely - here you've made an excellent point for the side that says "Nope, no Gryffindor for me, because it isn't worth the time or effort. I am better than Gryffindor because I am a descendant of Slytherin !" (That's what Voldiepoo thought, yep yep !) If he WANTED Gryffindor Horcruxes like some of you say, then he would have gotten them because he doesn't like to be told no, but he doesn't have them, doesn't want them, hardly even thought about them most likely.

QUOTE

Is it not safe to say as well that making a human or animal a Horcrux (even though he didn't mean for Harry to become one, he meant for Nagini to be one) is just as dangerous as making the hat or sword one?

If that's how you see it, then surely it is safe to say. Of course, Nagini was with him practically at all times unless doing his bidding, and this isn't a small snake by any means we're talking about here. It's a snake with a piece of Voldemort in it, that's huge, and venomous. Needless to say, it wasn't helpless - it attacked Arthur Weasley in OotP and did a decent amount of damage to him - a fully grown, well trained wizard - so yeah. There's a lot of symbolism with Nagini being a snake and made into a Horcrux, as snakes themselves are often depicted to signify immortality (which he strived for) and Nagini's name is the feminine form of Naga (omg, I know about these from EQ2, see mom, that game wasn't complete waste of time !). Nagas are a semi-divine snake race with great powers (hm, much like the founders' relics each have their own powers in and of themselves) who have an affinity for water (oh, ho ! The Slytherin corresponding element is Water.), carry the Elixir of Life (hm, immortality much ?), and symbolize both fertility and immortality (again with the immortality crap, this guy was obsessed). The venom is the elixir which kept him alive in his little baby scaly form in GOF, was 'milked' from her, which suggests she was used to get Voldemort into a semi-physical form that wasn't a mist (fertility). And in Malaysian tradition, the natural enemy of the Naga is the Phoenix. This information was all supplied by HPLexicon, btw, so all credit goes to them for explaining the significance of why Voldemort chose an animal for a Horcrux when it isn't advisable. I don't think the Sorting Hat holds such an impressionable spot to Voldemort as this creature does, even if it is a founder heirloom. Not to mention, Voldiecakes didn't want no stickin' Gryffindor Horcruxes ! You know what that's playing off of, don't you Lupin<3Tonks ? So you're right, it would be playing a game of risk if he had made them Horcruxes, but he didn't.

QUOTE

I think that the only reason Gryffindor's artifacts were not used as Horcruxes is, like you said ihkny, because they simply couldn't be used.

I didn't say they couldn't be used, I said it was inadvisable and listed various reasons as to why I think such, but I'm glad you agree.

QUOTE

You know the term "You want what you can't have"? Well I think that was LV. He seems like the type of person that if there is something in his world that he can't have or use, that will just make him all the more angry and want it even more.

Yeah, I know the term, I've thought it plenty of times in regard to your behavior - buahah ! Just kidding. But didn't you just say that he could have had them, had he want them ? You know, with his connections and the students at Hogwarts ? Thus, I am lead to believe Voldemort viewed things in the way I stated before. It was more of an insult not to even acknowledge the artifacts as important and worthy. You're right that he doesn't really have the "be the better person and walk away" attitude. I didn't mean for it to be taken in the literal sense like you took it, Lupin<3Tonks, I meant it in the way of not rising to the bait, of just walking away because it isn't worth his attentions, because it isn't important. You get what I am saying ? In essence, it says the exact same thing as "You are beneath me, so I will not acknowledge you."

I'm not saying he wasn't interested in the Sword at all; I'm saying it wasn't an ideal choice for a Horcrux because of how easily obtainable it would be to anyone exhibiting "True Gryffindorness". He didn't want people messing with those, and the Sword would most likely still be accessible to people besides himself, and who knows where it could end up. And like I said before, who knows what would/could result of a sliver of soul being placed inside of it.

Here's a scenario (one that JK Rowling probably realized and was point enough not to make the Sword a Horcrux): Had Voldemort acquired the Sword of Godric Gryffindor and made it a Horcrux, and the result of this was that the soul slice was in there, in perfect condition and the sword didn't turn all evil or weird and didn't reject it or extinguish what had been done to it; where would that leave the wizarding world ?

I want to see if anyone knows why this just isn't beneficial to the plotline.

~Snootchie Bootchies !

Ok I should have remembered that in regards to my statement about him stopping at six or seven. However, at any time he could have decided to continue on with his Horcruxes (like let’s say he knew one or two had been destroyed and decided to continue on). That is hypothetical however so it doesn’t matter anyway. He stopped at seven because that was the magical number. I got it.



There was: ring, diary, cup, diadem, harry, locket and nagini. That makes seven. If we include LV like the above statement says, that makes eight. However, I’ll admit that LV never intended to make Harry a Horcrux and did not know he existed as one. So if we take him away that leaves the lucky number 7.



I’m sorry I realize that it sounds like I’m contradicting myself. I answer as I go along in my mind, thinking about different scenarios. Ok, you don’t think that LV could have wanted Gryffindor’s relics as Horcruxes because 1) it would be inadvisable to use them and 2)because he felt he was superior to Gryffindor and the best way to snub him and his house was to just ignore the relics completely. I say that making Nagini a Horcrux is inadvisable as well, but he did it anyway. Yes, you are right that Nagini was with him all the time. Yes you’re right that she is a big snake that can hold her own. But Nagini wasn't indestructible and you saw how quickly she came to her demise at the end of DH. My point is, just like at the end of DH, at any point in time, Nagini could have been killed. Even by accident. Its all hypothetical, but it COULD have happen nonetheless. I know we already discussed this out loud, but I believe that at the time that he set the hat on fire, Nagini was not dead. I don’t think Voldemort felt defeated at that moment. In fact I think was quite smug and spiteful. Even though Voldemort never openly said he was afraid of anyone other than DD, deep down, I think he feared Harry like there was no tomorrow. In my opinion, he was scared of Harry. Of what would happen if Harry wasn’t defeated. You would think after all the attempts he made on Harry’s life, and seeing has Harry got out of each and every one of them, LV probably started to worry, “What if I don’t ever kill this kid?”.



Again, sorry that I didn’t make myself clear on this. Yes I do think LV would want Gryffindor Horcruxes because Gryffindor’s relics were magical artifacts in the wizarding world that excluded all people except Gryffindors. Being that Lord Voldemort seemed to be the one person who want world domination and the power to exlude whoever he wanted; I don’t seem him taking this very lightly. As I stated, I think this would only fuel his fire toward Gryffindor and he would want it as his own. He would try to make it his own.



I can’t argue with this statement; it’s a valid point. If he wanted the Gryffindor relics to be Horcruxes than he would have made them Horcruxes instead of the diary or Nagini. But that just makes me wonder why the question was brought up in the first place. Its canon that Gryffindor relics are not Horcruxes, however most of our questions are hypothetical as well as our answers. So you can state the facts and say well these are the facts and that makes it true. However, you don’t know what Voldiepoo was thinking. This goes back to what I said earlier, why I contradicted myself. The only reason I could figure that he didn’t USE (not want) but use the Gryffindor relics as Horcruxes was because he realized that he couldn’t or in your words, he would have seen it as too big of a risk. But that doesn’t change that at some point in time, LV would have thought to himself, “Gee whiz, wouldn’t it be great to have Gryffindor’s stuff as some of my Horcruxes!? Wouldn’t that really just push Godric’s buttons!? Unfortuntely it would be really stupid of me to use them so I’m not going to, but at least a man can dream”. Do you see what I’m saying?? Just because facts show that he didn’t use Gryffindor relics as Horcruxes doesn’t mean that LV didn’t WANT them as horcruxes. We don’t know that for sure. We just have our thoughts and opinions on it.

Here's a scenario (one that JK Rowling probably realized and was point enough not to make the Sword a Horcrux): Had Voldemort acquired the Sword of Godric Gryffindor and made it a Horcrux, and the result of this was that the soul slice was in there, in perfect condition and the sword didn't turn all evil or weird and didn't reject it or extinguish what had been done to it; where would that leave the wizarding world ?

we have discussed this already so I wil wait to see what others think too. Everyone is probably wondering why we didn't discuss ALL of this out loud! haha.

I was gonna jump into this argument, but I think I'll just back away slowly instead, lol. You both make good points though.

Anyway, I just realized something that I want to point out. Voldie's horcrux were the ring, diary, cup, diadem, Harry, locket and Nagini. Now, I choose to ignore Harry as a horcrux since Voldie didn't know he'd made him one and that splits his soul into 8, and I believe he wanted 7 pieces of his soul.

Anyway, that leaves the cup and diadem as the only horcrux made from founders items. I realize the locket and ring were founders items as well, but I believe he chose them because they were family heirlooms and he wanted ties to his ancestry, and would have wanted them whether they were Slytherin's or not.

I'm still trying to figure out why he thought Nagini was a good idea for a horcrux.

(Sorry if any of what I've said is contradicted in canon, it's been a year since I've read any of the books.)

Besides the fact that she holds significant importance and symbolizes immortality and power, I'd say that he made her a Horcrux because he was in a vulnerable position and wanted to ensure another means of a resurrection being possible, for one reason or another. It may not be advisable to use living beings, I think it was actually kind of an act of desperation on his part or something. She did basically nurse him back to a semi-healthy state... with a solid form instead of a mist.

I'm done arguing about it too, in any case. I'm not going to change her mind and she won't change mine, so we're gonna let the sleeping dogs lie (lest we wish to be murdered by our Mommy Dearest.)

Would like to buy : new topic, please.

Not sure if this has ever been asked or not, but...

Do you think Tom Riddle Jr. was accepted by the other students of Slytherin when he attended Hogwarts ?

~Snootchie Bootchies

Do you think Tom Riddle Jr. was accepted by the other students of Slytherin when he attended Hogwarts ?
He probably was. He didn't make any friends, but I think they excepted him as another Slytherin. He had all the qualities of one, after all.
Do you think Voldemort would have made more Horcruxes if he had learned they were being destoyed?

I think Voldemort would have kept creating horcrux, at least as long as he could. I've been wondering though, when you create a horcrux, how much of your soul goes into each one. Can it be controlled or is it a certain amount? I assume, that since it's considered dangerous to make even one horcrux, that it can't really be controlled, and that you could put too much of your soul into it.


Edit: ihkny, I love the line at the bottom of your signature. Also, sorry I haven't been around much; I've been sleep deprived. How's school going for you?

heheh, AlannahG, I love the last picture on your singature!
I think that Voldemort would make a few more Horcruxes, but he would hide them very, very well, and they wouldn't be as obvious, (ie, the Slytherin locket).

Sorry for making another question so soon, but do you think that all Slytherins have a bad side? (I don't....)

Do you think Tom Riddle Jr. was accepted by the other students of Slytherin when he attended Hogwarts ?

Guess I'll answer my own question since no one else really wanted to (thanks Snapefan21 for replying )

I don't think Tom was accepted at first in Slytherin by the other students because the pureblooded supremacy nonsense was going on even then, and possibly was even worse. However, I think after he acquired the Gaunt family ring the other students realized who he was a descendant of, well, if he showed them of course. Maybe that's when his following began to build up.

Do you think Voldemort would have made more Horcruxes if he had learned they were being destoyed?

Well, he did learn they were being destroyed, little bit too late though. The discovery of the destruction of his Horcruxes was what prompted the attack on Hogwarts because that is where the last one belonging to a founder was (Ravenclaw's diadem). I think he would have made more, had he had the opportunity. Why I think he wouldn't have the opportunity to create more at that point in time is because A ) I don't know if he had any significant artifacts he would want to place a shard into and B ) I believe that the ripping of one's soul is a very painful process and takes a large amount of energy from the one displacing a sliver of soul; meaning he would most likely need time to recuperate. There was really a very small passing of time between when he found out and when he launched the attack. I think the Horcruxes have to be made by important deaths, or rather, important objects have to be used to store the soul piece within. I don't think he would have created more than 7, meaning he would only make as many as it would take to get him back to that amount.

QUOTE

Can it be controlled or is it a certain amount? I assume, that since it's considered dangerous to make even one horcrux, that it can't really be controlled, and that you could put too much of your soul into it.

Very good question, was wondering myself. I believe it is an uncontrollable event, but I'm not really thinking it has to do with too much of the soul being put into any one object, but more along the fact that every time you do it, you really are losing a piece of you, of what makes you human. Any portion stripped from the Soul most likely makes one unbalanced.

Question: Which makes me curious to whether or not the splitting of your Soul affects your magical ability/stability ? Does it make you more powerful or less ?

Sorry for making another question so soon, but do you think that all Slytherins have a bad side? (I don't....)

Merlin's pants, don't at all apologize ! It isn't the Slytherin thing to do ! Haha, I'm just kidding, it is never too soon to pose another question, keep them coming ! Everyone has a bad side, the world isn't black and white, good people/bad people, lol. I think some are just inherently more "bad" than others. Andromeda Tonks married a muggle, but was still sorted into Slytherin. So yes, all Slytherins have a bad side, some just show/flaunt theirs more than others, we just have to remember that they have good too. Snape and Andromeda (Black) Tonks, Cedrella (Black) Weasley, and Regulus Black. I think, some of them are afraid of the weakness that could be seen if they did not use their "bad" sides to create barriers and to fit in.

Alannah - Congrats on earning points for the house and making the dueling club.
That qoute is actually something me, Tonya, and my mom saw in Zaxby's yesterday on the wall as we left ! We were laughing so hard. Get some sleep :\ School's actually going pretty well, my College Algebra teacher is really funny, my Drugs and Behavior professor has stressed the point that she will not be teaching us better and new techniques with which to make/take narcotics, no matter how much we may want it to be about that (lolol, she's pretty funny too) and my Humanities Arts teacher has a rat tail in a braid and he's... odd, but I like it.

P.S. Lupin<3Tonks and I are on an Alan Rickman fetish atm and are watching any movie we can get our hands on that he is in. He's really such a great Slytherin and I'm proud that he was our head of house ! Kind of random, I know... lol

~ihkny

Haha, ihkny I didnt know you put that quote in your signature! Yeah apparently John Wayne said that! Smart man! Yes, she was not lying about our Alan Rickman fetish. We have rented three of his movies, Perfume, Something the Lord Made and Michael Collins.

Do you think Tom Riddle Jr. was accepted by the other students of Slytherin when he attended Hogwarts ?

I do think Tom Riddle Jr. was accepted by other students of his house. He was a charmer and put on a likeable front for others so I do think he had friends. I think that people probably looked up to him and seeing how great a wizard he was, they were probably in awe of all his magical coolness. LoL. All the girlies probably thought he was hot/cute/gorgeous whatever word they would use. He probably kind of had that bad boy edge to him much like Draco. And..*cough* Snape..even though thats due largely in part because its Alan Rickman. We all know he was picked on in real life at Hogwarts...but if he WAS ALAN RICKMAN as Snape at Hogwarts than he probably would have had the girls lined up down the hall! I'd be in front!!!

Sorry this was my random rambling... sorry!

Do you think Tom Riddle Jr. was accepted by the other students of Slytherin when he attended Hogwarts ?

I defiently see him accepted by the other Slytherins. They know that he has the qualities. They acknowledge that he is one of them. But friend wise? I don't think he had many friends. He always grew up alone with no one to talk to but snakes and stuff. Maybe even himself but who am I to know But other than that I see him as the kind of student that talks to no one in class; Just listens and observes and watches the others. He walks down the halls not speaking to no one or anyone looking at him... Outkast you can say.
ihkny makes a point about the pureblood and half blood issue. He was probably taunted, teased and made fun of for being half blood and then not accepted for being Slytherin. Then when they found out who he descended from, they all try to stay out of his way. Still not speaking to Riddle but keeping distance and not messing with him. Afraid.

Do you think Voldemort would have made more Horcruxes if he had learned they were being destoyed?

That's something you think that Voldemort would do, but first off if he did want to it would be a bit late and painful. But to be real honest I don't think he would have made more. He's not stupid. He knows what kind of work goes into making one and the process and there wasn't time and he probably felt like there was no need to. That Potter was almost about to be killed. Very sure of himself. Either that or he would have thought that if he made another one at that moment that he was going to look weak and scared in front of his followers like when he hoped that Harry was dead and that he killed him and that him fainting was nothing and blah blah.

Which makes me curious to whether or not the splitting of your Soul affects your magical ability/stability ? Does it make you more powerful or less ?

I don't think it affects the abilitiy but more of the stability. I think that it makes you a bit more weaker. Becuase it's like little by little tearing yourself apart. I can't really explain but it's like taking energy and wwill from you. So even though you still know all this magic and you're strong it won't mean anything if you don't have power, energy or stability. I hope I made sense.

Ok I'm tired and I'll... if this doesnt make sense then blame the idiot who gave me a virus

Do you think Tom Riddle Jr. was accepted by the other students of Slytherin when he attended Hogwarts ?
hmm... Interesting. I think that he was accepted, but never had friends. Friendship is a mutual thing, where both people need the other, and where there is a mutual give and take relationship. With Tom, people needed him, and wanted to bask in his 'light' (ironic, don't you think) just as the death eaters did all those years later. However, Tom himself never needed them to achieve the things he wanted to do, just as he never truely needed the death eaters- he could have spread the terror himself even if it was all through controlling others with the imperious curse. The fact is, he wanted poeple to follow him, he wanted power over them- this is something we know from when he was very young. So.. where was I... Oh yes, he was accepted because other slytherins saw that they could gain things from him, and there was that element of fear- if they excluded him they would pay for it. He was accepted as a Slytherin, but never as a friend, which to be honest I don't think he really cared about at this stage.

Urggh I can't stop coughing, I'll do the other questions another day

Clara}~

I didn't think anything of friendship. He isn't the type to want it or need it.

QUOTE

However, Tom himself never needed them to achieve the things he wanted to do, just as he never truely needed the death eaters

I actually disagree with this. I think he did need people to fear him. If he didn't have anyone that feared him, he wouldn't have half the power he did. That's how he controlled - through fear. The Death Eaters didn't just follow him because of what he represented and promised; they feared his power as well and what would happen to them if they did oppose him.

Which makes me curious to whether or not the splitting of your Soul affects your magical ability/stability ? Does it make you more powerful or less ?

~ihkny

I wasn't saying that he didn't need people to fear him- that's what I meant about using something like the imperious curse. . . Its difficult to put into words, but he could have made people fear him without having a large following- he could have found a way to either control others magically to do the deeds that death eaters would have done, or he would have installed the fear himself in a different way. The point it, he could still have done what he wanted to do without others, whereas others needed him.

Sorry... I'll answer this next time:
Which makes me curious to whether or not the splitting of your Soul affects your magical ability/stability ? Does it make you more powerful or less ?

Clara}~

*pokes the dead common room with a stick* Where is everyone ? Stop lurking you lot, discuss stuff with me ! I have to go talk to Hufflepuffs and Ravenclaws and ... and Gryffindors ! (haha, I like talking to all of them, though)



Technically, at first, he didn't really have that large of a following did he ? I see what you mean, but I don't think he would have done it through the imperius curse. Not sure how he'd of done it though, lol.

Which makes me curious to whether or not the splitting of your Soul affects your magical ability/stability ? Does it make you more powerful or less ?

Guess I'll answer it now, doesn't seem like anyone else has any thoughts on it but two people (Thanks Clara and Nickers for answering and the thought of it *though I suspect Clara will answer it in the near future, I hope!*).

From my point of view, opposite of nicky potter's, the ripping of one's soul could possibly make you stronger, which in turn affects your ability - not your stability (well, magical stability, your mind is a whole different topic). Dark Magic is Emotional Magic, though I am not saying Light Magic isn't. I think the more Voldemort tore his soul, the more unstable his mind become, the harder it was for him to control himself and the more emotional he became. It started off at a young age; confusion lead to frustration to defense to sadness and anger, to suspicion and irritation to distrust and disgust and fear. I often think many people do not realize how emotional Voldemort was; they probably see him as being distant and aloof, cold, uncaring. He wasn't - he was very easily prone to anger and rashness at some points (Gryffindor's are hot-headed :x).

The instability of the mind makes emotions even stronger and that is a deciding factor in how powerful the magic you cast is - especially with Dark Magic (I wonder if the old magick Lily used would be considered Dark even if it was cast from Love - Love which can be as Dark as any feeling of Fear, Hate and Jealousy).

Here's a scenario (one that JK Rowling probably realized and was point enough not to make the Sword a Horcrux): Had Voldemort acquired the Sword of Godric Gryffindor and made it a Horcrux, and the result of this was that the soul slice was in there, in perfect condition and the sword didn't turn all evil or weird and didn't reject it or extinguish what had been done to it; where would that leave the wizarding world ?

No one answered this one from way back when either. /sigh. I really wanted to see if anyone thought about it the way I did. Anyhow, in that scenario - had Voldemort gotten Godric Gryffindor' Sword and created a Horcrux out of it, the wizarding world would be screwed.

Why ? Because the Sword is i-n-d-e-s-t-r-u-c-t-a-b-l-e. Unless there's some Lord of the Rings who-hah going on with it where it has to be thrown into the Fiery Lava Pits of Mount Mordor or whatever it's called - that Horcrux would be his most powerful and beneficial. There would basically be no way to get rid of him, unless of course there was some way we don't know of the destroy the sword - but it's said that it can't be.

~ihkny

P.S. I am sleepy, school is zapping all of my energy.

Which makes me curious to whether or not the splitting of your Soul affects your magical ability/stability ? Does it make you more powerful or less ?

I do think splitting your soul affects both your ability and stability. I'm not sure which way it tips your power, though. Hmm...I think maybe it makes your stability decrease, because you're not a whole person anymore. It makes you more unstable. I'm not sure how it would affect your power, though~it would probably depend on the person.

I don't think that splitting your soul necessarily makes you less powerful or stable. It certainly makes you less "human", though. Dumbledore even commented on Tom's appearance after their last encounter when Tom applied for a job. He also remarked on it to Harry in CoS. That "after Tom re-emerged as Lord Voldemort he had undergone so many magical transformations that no one recognized him as the handsome, clever boy from their school days."

I always thought that the entire Horcrux process must involve more than just murder. Slughorn indicates there is a spell (and so a process that must be followed) but later Dumbledore tells Harry that he became a Horcrux when Voldemort tried to kill him and the curse rebounded because Voldemort's soul (such as it was) was so torn up. I would prefer to think that when a (dark) wizard created a horcrux,
1) they were conscious of what they were doing,

2) there were rules governing how one might be created (JKR did say something about it being an unrepentent murder. But there should be no accidental horcruxes.)

3) the wizard gave up something in addition to the murder itself. If humanity is defined by virtues (and there are 7 of them) then a wizard couldn't go on splitting his or her soul indefinitely. And they would know when they did.

Which makes me curious to whether or not the splitting of your Soul affects your magical ability/stability ? Does it make you more powerful or less ?

I don't think splitting your soul makes you more or less powerful. Voldemort was powerful before he began splitting his soul and he was powerful afterwards.

I do think it affects your stability and your humanity however, though it could be argued that anyone willing to create a horcrux wasn't exactly stable to begin with. To create a horcrux you have to first create a tear in your soul through killing someone, and that alone could mess with anyone's stability and then to actually remove part of your soul would prevent you from recovering and I think it would drive anyone insane.

Well, you lot are dead. Anyway, I have a new question for all of you. I apologize if this has been answered somewhere in canon or an interview.

Do you think there are any crimes, other than unrepented murder, which would be heinous enough to tear the soul? What are they, and why?

Which makes me curious to whether or not the splitting of your Soul affects your magical ability/stability ? Does it make you more powerful or less ?

If it made you less powerful I bet it wouldnt of efected Tom becuase he was so powerful. But maybe it made him pale looking. becuase he was weak in soul.

I don't really think Voldemort had a weak soul. I think he must have had a very powerful one to split it so many times and not be quivering on the floor insane.

And as far as him being pale cause he was splitting his soul, I always just figured he was pale cause he couldn't exactly go lay on the beach all day.

Why is he pale??? That's a good question...

Do you think there are any crimes, other than unrepented murder, which would be heinous enough to tear the soul? What are they, and why?

This is tough to answer...well maybe it's just tough for me to answer with my answer. LoL does that make any sense? Alannah its after 9 technically I'm not suppose to post things, but I'm going to anyway because your house is dead. Ok I think the most obvious answer would be rape. I'm trying to think in terms of the wizarding world and what kind of crimes would be so horrible, other than murder that would tear the soul and rape just doesn't seem like something that would happen. But if it did- I think that warrants some soul ripping. I don't know what else... this is a tough question!!

Do you think there are any crimes, other than unrepented murder, which would be heinous enough to tear the soul? What are they, and why?

Rape, both unrepented and repented. Rape is unforgivable, I know it doesn't have anything to do with magic, and I don't really know how it could be tied into magic, but never is rape acceptable - ever. Especially if the victim lives, they have to go through the rest of their life living with that torture, that emotional pain. I'm sure there are others, but rape is really just worse than death to me by a long shot - and anyone who does something so horrid as that sickens me. I would kill someone unrepentedly if they I ever found out they raped somebody - no one has any right to force themselves on another human being; and I'm sure many would think "Well you don't have the right to kill someone for raping someone else, that doesn't make you any better, blah blah blah." Well guess what, I don't care what you think, that person does not deserve to live (and I don't care if you think they can change because they can't, you don't just get punished and decide oh that was bad I won't do it again.) because they didn't respect that person's right to refuse the advances.



Is it just me or can anyone else imagine the Death Eaters raping, pillaging, and plundering ? I'm pretty sure there was some unannounced happenings going on there.

~ihkny

I agree that rape could split the soul, both the rapist's and the victims. I also think that torture could tear the soul.

Thinking in terms of the wizarding world, I think it could be possible to split the soul by placing someone under imperio and then having them kill people for you.