Dear Fellow GryffindorHouse Members:

Welcome to your new House Common Room! Here is the place, once you are sorted (or once you have picked your house) that you may come to discuss things with your fellow house members! In the past, we have asked that you only discuss things associated with GryffindorHouse, but in this new thread, we are opening up the possibilities to you! Here is our reasoning: We know that as the fandom of HP must change a bit since the release of the last book, so must the forum to continue to foster interest and discussion. In short, there are only so many things that you can discuss about GryffindorHouse before it has all been discussed and theorized and rehashed.

What this means for you: As long as you have a topic or a question to answer, you may feel free to discuss anything. Please make sure you do not turn the thread into a chat thread where you are just popping in to tell everyone about your day or the things that are happening in your life. We have a couple of chat threads down in the Quidditch Pitch Forum where you may discuss those types of things. We also have a chat room where you can go to chat with your friends from the forums.

Please feel free to discuss any aspect of GryffindorHouse, life issues, reactions to news, Harry Potter, opinions and ideas on non-personal subjects, etc. Almost anything goes! If the mods feel you’ve gone a bit off track, we’ll post a gentle reminder. If the thread turns into a chat thread, you’ll get a less friendly reminder.

Another thing, keep in mind that though this Common Room is for Gryffindor, you might have visitors from other houses come to see what you’re up to. Please do not treat these visitors as hostile spies, but please treat them as honored guests in your house. Sometimes it’s good to get outside opinions on things from a different house’s perspective.

If you have any questions about the new direction of the Common Room, please just send your Owl my way. 

The latest questions from your previous thread are these:

Do you think that the symbolism behind LV not having a Gryffindor Horcrux could have anything to do with the rivalry between the two houses or Gryffindor's strength against Slytherin? Somewhat, like LV attacking everyone but DD?

and

Why do you think Lord Voldemort was not able to get/use an item of Godric Gryffindor's for a Horcrux?

Hmm nice to see this topic up and running! Iv'e noticed that the other house threads have been active, but as I scrolled down the page here in the lounge I have not seen it...

Do you think that the symbolism behind LV not having a Gryffindor Horcrux could have anything to do with the rivalry between the two houses or Gryffindor's strength against Slytherin? Somewhat, like LV attacking everyone but DD?

Offcourse it has anything to do with the rivalry between the two houses. Voldemort wanted a gryffindor howcrux but he could not get it. In addition Voldemort could not win over Harry Potter in the end and he is a gryffindor. And Harry also distroyed Voldemort when Voldemort tryed to kill Harry, only to turn him into a seventh horcrux. Something that Voldemorts body could not handle. So I think the symbolizm here states that Gryffindor is somewhat of a stronger house than slytherin.

[b]Why do you think Lord Voldemort was not able to get/use an item of Godric Gryffindor's for a Horcrux?/b]

It was protected by Dumbledore and Voldemort was scared of him so he dared not to go after it.

I've never joined to my own house thread, and as I felt ashamed of that, let's mend it by joining to this renewed one!

But first ... let me congratulate to all the people who had made possible that Gryffindor now has got 60 points, drawing with Slytherin I love the Vtm House Cup because that awards those posts that really deserves to be considered, and also encourage people to read them, and to keep elaborating in their posts.

And another thing I liked to say ... I always think in how good is this, because, the opposite in Hogwarts, here not every people has their house showed in their sig, and I'm sure not many people are peering in your profile just to search your house. So, the thing is, that here you can be talking with a Slytherin, but you don't realise and you don't care, because what cares here is sharing opinions, experiences and talking. Houses are not a label, but just a sign of belonging and cooperation in things like earning points.

That's all!

Do you think that the symbolism behind LV not having a Gryffindor Horcrux could have anything to do with the rivalry between the two houses or Gryffindor's strength against Slytherin? Somewhat, like LV attacking everyone but DD?

Yes, it could be. Meaning that there's no way that LV and Slytherin could vanquish Gryffindor and all the good things the house stands for. Slytherin never could beat Gryffindor. LV never could beat DD. LV could never beat HP. Bellatrix could never beat Neville, and his family. And there you go.

Why do you think Lord Voldemort was not able to get/use an item of Godric Gryffindor's for a Horcrux?

He wasn't able because he hadn't have the chance. DD looked after the sword, and had Snape to looked after it when he died. Then he passed it over to Harry. And then ... Harry lose it, but it was Griphook. And, see, Voldemort couldn't have even the Sorting Hat. He burnt it, but the Hat gave Neville the weapon that helped to vanquish him, destroying the snake.

I didn't know we can get guests here! That's great, like inviting friends to your house

(Oh, and I had a wondering but I didn't know who to ask it: the new theme for the forums ... is honoring us, Gryffindors? Joking, but it looks so. It's cool ,though)

Why do you think Lord Voldemort was not able to get/use an item of Godric Gryffindor's for a Horcrux?

Hello just visiting! I think that he didn't get a object of Godric. Maybe becuase only a true Gryffindor can get it. Like how Harry pulled the sword from the hat. Well thats my opinion, I hope you Gryffindors do well. Bye.

Do you think that the symbolism behind LV not having a Gryffindor Horcrux could have anything to do with the rivalry between the two houses or Gryffindor's strength against Slytherin? Somewhat, like LV attacking everyone but DD?

Hi ! I'm a Slytherin lurking about, don't mind me, teehee. Technically, Voldycakes had a Gryffindor Horcurx. Harry Potter is a descendant of Godric Gryffindor and can be considered one of Voldemort's Horcruxes. The symbolism behind this, though, could be the unresolved rivalry between Salazaar and Godric.

As for him not getting at the sword, I'd say it's because that sword was about as tricky as Peevesie, not to mention in possession of Dumbledore and well guarded, unlike the ring Uncle Morfin gave to him, the locket and cup that were in custody of Hephzibah Smith and the diadem that Tom Riddle Jr. charmed the whereabouts out of Helena Ravenclaw.

~ihkny

Wow you really know you HP stuff. I bet you'd ace a quiz all about the books. I never thought about Harry being the Gryffindor Horcrux. Wow that has opened many doors. Thank You!

Do you think that the symbolism behind LV not having a Gryffindor Horcrux could have anything to do with the rivalry between the two houses or Gryffindor's strength against Slytherin? Somewhat, like LV attacking everyone but DD?

and

Why do you think Lord Voldemort was not able to get/use an item of Godric Gryffindor's for a Horcrux?

Hello, I'm another visiting Slythie. Don't hurt me, lol.

Personally, I think the reason Voldiekins didn't have a Gryffindor horcrux simply comes down to the rivalry between Slytherin and Gryffindor. Voldiekins was very proud of being the heir of Slytherin, and has a great dislike of Gryffindors. I think Voldiekins would have seen it as below him to have something representing Gryffindor.

As far as Voldiekins not being able to get a Gryffindor item, I imagine he could have if he really really wanted one. But I simply think he wouldn't have really wanted one, and so not being able to find one gave him his excuse not to complete his collection.

First hey Slythie Great to see house cooperation

Anywho, didn't Slytherin want to have a possession from each House, since Hogwarts was his home and his only true love? And so wouldn't we be lead to the conclusion that Voldy would have wanted an item from each house and just failed to get one?

Another thought that Voldemort might have is that by getting an item of Gryffindors, it could be assumed that he is superior to the Gryffindors.


-Nick
HJP

I can definitely see where you're coming from with him feeling superior if he managed to get his slytherin-y hands on a Gryffindor heirloom, but like I said in my previous post they were well guarded items within Hogwarts, whereas the others did not have such protection.

Of course, like I also mentioned before, Harry Potter is a horcrux and a descendant of Gyffindor; in my eyes, that means he did acquire a Gryffindor item for a horcrux, lol. Am I going in circles ?

~ihkny

hey everyone, glad the Gryffindor common room is back up and running, I was getting worried

ihkny I think thats a good point, maybe Voldemort did aqcuire a Gryffindor item, i've never thought about it like that?... however perhaps it only worked as it was unintentional and maybe only works on non-human objects?... i realise my points are quite weak, im desperately trying to find something to show that Voldemort didnt get an item of Gryffindor's!

As for the other items I agree with you, I doubt they were as highly guarded as the Gryffindor ones or as difficult to obtain

Aloha House members. I am making myself comfortable in one of the squishy red arm chairs near the fire.

I like the discussion going on about why Voldemort did/didn't aquire a Gryffindor Horcrux. There is a lot of points out there that make sense. My take on this is simple. Voldemort didn't aquire a Gryffindor Horcrux simply because he didn't believe he had made one in the first place. Voldemort was looking for a symbol, something tangible that he could possess. When his own killing curse failed and rebounded upon him instead of killing the infant Harry, Voldemort had no idea that he had just imprinted a portion of his soul within his arch nemisis. If he didn't believe he had done it, how could he have done it? Does that make sense?

The reason he couldn't possess a such item of Godric Gryffindor was because somehow the relics belonging to Godric only seem to be able to be possessed by those who truly are a Gryffindor. That is how Harry came to use the sword in CoS and how Ron and Neville came to use it in DH. Perhaps Godric used a specific charm on his ancestrial items to allow them only to be possessed by a true Gryffindor? Um, no that doesn't work either because Griphook the Goblin was in short possession of it when he stole it at Bellatrix vault. Perhaps the charm was the sword will go to whomever needed it as long as they were a true Gryffindor, no matter who possessed it at the time?

You know, I was just thinking...is Gryffidor considered the strongest among the four original house finders of Hogwarts? If so, what is it about Godric Gryffindor that makes it so? Gryffindors seem to get the highest honors within the school and also as a graduate. I mean, it is considered a privilege to be sorted into Gryffidor right? Although, my husband considered it a privilege to be sorted into Slytherin

What do you all think?

I know Im going to get myself into a right muddle here but here goes...... I reckon he did but maybe it was more than just a charm, something beyond magic, kind of like the love thing that protected Harry which meant that only true Gryffindors at heart could posess his items?
I mean anyone could pick it up (explaining the Griphook point) as you said he stole it which means it was never his originally and i doubt very much that he could have conjured it the way Harry did in COS with the sorting hat and with Neville in DH, the same way Voldemort could have never done that either


Hmmm I guess it's because we're great no im joking, I reckon Gryffindors do turn out quite well but at the same time I dont think we hear enough about the other houses to really judge and Im sure every house member is as equally proud of their own house as Gryffindor's are of theirs

You know, I was just thinking...is Gryffidor considered the strongest among the four original house finders of Hogwarts? If so, what is it about Godric Gryffindor that makes it so? Gryffindors seem to get the highest honors within the school and also as a graduate. I mean, it is considered a privilege to be sorted into Gryffidor right?

Erm, I might be kind of biased because I'm not in Gryffindor... But I think it's not so much that, you know, YAY it's a privilege to be sorted into Gryffindor, it's more that since the protagonists are Sorted into Gryffindor, the other Houses don't get the credit they may or may not deserve. I'm sure that graduates of other Houses also get highest honors and end up in highly credited fields. It's just that everyone seems to focus on Gryffindor because of HP being in it, and stuff like that.

I personally think Ravenclaw rocks.

You know, I was just thinking...is Gryffidor considered the strongest among the four original house finders of Hogwarts? If so, what is it about Godric Gryffindor that makes it so? Gryffindors seem to get the highest honors within the school and also as a graduate. I mean, it is considered a privilege to be sorted into Gryffidor right?

Well we can't tell for sure, because the books mainly focus on Gryffindor and I think Gryffindor is in a good period in the books. Remember in the first book Wood said that Gryffindor hadn't won the quiditch cup in years and later in the book we learn that they hadn't won the house cup in years either. So therefore I think that it switches between the houses about being the best and that in the books Gryffindor is just in a good period.

And about if Voldemort got a gryffindor horcrux or not I think he did, even though he did not mean too. Ironically Voldemort's goal was to get a horcrux from all the four houses, but it was this that destroyed him the first time!

hello fellow Gryffindors!
i have jsut been sorted, and i just thought i should do some posting in the common room.

Why do you think Lord Voldemort was not able to get/use an item of Godric Gryffindor's for a Horcrux?

i agree with what everyone has posted before me, but he also may have not been able to because since Slytherin and Gryffindor are pretty much sworn enemies in the books, maybe he was afriad to take something. Maybe because of Dumbledore???

If anyone's still mulling over the answer to this question:

Why do you think Lord Voldemort was not able to get/use an item of Godric Gryffindor's for a Horcrux?

We've been discussing it in the Slytherin Commons as well, and a lot has been said about it, that some of you may like to read over. So drop on in, I'd love to see some other house members in there with us - we aren't that bad, I pormise !

And to answer the question again, I'm going to say because he didn't really want one from Gryffindor.

~ihkny

Oh wow! I answered this somewhere in the old Gryffindor thread Be right back; I'm going to search for it...



This was what I wrote in the old thread Hope it does makes sense still!

Hello, fellow Gryffindors!

You know, I was just thinking...is Gryffidor considered the strongest among the four original house finders of Hogwarts? If so, what is it about Godric Gryffindor that makes it so? Gryffindors seem to get the highest honors within the school and also as a graduate. I mean, it is considered a privilege to be sorted into Gryffindor right?



Eisa, you really took the words right out of my mouth. I was going to say pretty much the same thing, then noticed you already did. I think the other houses are really good too, but since Harry Potter was in Gryffindor, we hear most about that house. I love Ravenclaw. That's my favorite house, but since I was sorted into Gryffindor I have to be content. Gryffindor is a good house, after all.

You know, I was just thinking...is Gryffidor considered the strongest among the four original house finders of Hogwarts? If so, what is it about Godric Gryffindor that makes it so? Gryffindors seem to get the highest honors within the school and also as a graduate. I mean, it is considered a privilege to be sorted into Gryffindor right?


In my opinion, Godric Gryffindor was a very brave man. Thats why his house was considered the strongest. It doesnt mean other houses were not as good. Each house has his own great ancestors and honours. Gryffindor (house) was more in the picture because the central character was in that house. So, we kinda have a soft spot for it...
As far as privilege is considered, it is a privilege to be sorted into any house..everyone loves their house..isnt it?
Dont hit me guys..i've been sorted into Gryffindor..but i prefer Rawenclaw..

Why do you think Lord Voldemort was not able to get/use an item of Godric Gryffindor's for a Horcrux?
Did he not? Harry...he was a living soul of Gryffindor, and he was a horcrux right?
Talking about material things, the reason he didnt get items from Gryffindor's is because Voldy made those things as horcruxii which were prized! not just in their historic greatness but which showed his greatness too..for example the diary..there was nothing great about the book. But the fact that it showed him to be Slytherin's heir was fed into it..hence he gave it an honour to be the horcrux
He might've taken the Gryffindor's sword..but for one, it was very heavily protected by Dumbledore.And the second thing is..he perhaps didn't want to..as Slytherin considered Gryffindor his arch rival..so why to make a rival's thing a part of my soul?

this common room idea sure is good. Who got it?

I've been dying to ask these questions, but never found a suitable place... . I guess now that we can discuss various things in common rooms....

If Hagrid's name was cleared in the second part, then why couldn't he use his wand openly? Ok his wand was in two pieces, but couldn't he get a new one? Luna got after she lost hers in the seventh part. A new wand could chose him.
Is there something legal i'm missing here? Why couldn't he use a wand?

another thing i wanted to discuss...

How is it that Aunt Petunia doesn't know that magic is not allowed for under age wizards in holidays (or outside school) till the owl in the second part? Lily was her own sister..surely their parents must've known. They were fond of Lily being a witch, she must've told them.

Well the questions doesn't have everything to do with Gryffindor, but I'll be brave enough to answer then (HAH! )

If Hagrid's name was cleared in the second part, then why couldn't he use his wand openly? Ok his wand was in two pieces, but couldn't he get a new one? Luna got after she lost hers in the seventh part. A new wand could chose him.
Is there something legal i'm missing here? Why couldn't he use a wand?

Technically he should be allowed to use a wand now, unless the minstry denied him of this because he had not finished his education. In addition I think they were a bit sceptic to a half-giant using a wand!

How is it that Aunt Petunia doesn't know that magic is not allowed for under age wizards in holidays (or outside school) till the owl in the second part? Lily was her own sister..surely their parents must've known. They were fond of Lily being a witch, she must've told them.

I don't think she was really interested in knowing. Or maybe she knew and didn't know that Harry was teasing dudley with it.

If Hagrid's name was cleared in the second part, then why couldn't he use his wand openly? Ok his wand was in two pieces, but couldn't he get a new one? Luna got after she lost hers in the seventh part. A new wand could chose him.
Is there something legal i'm missing here? Why couldn't he use a wand?
~This is a great question. I often wondered why Hagrid would have to keep up with the secret that he still had his wand and used it although it was broken. The only reason I can see for this is that Hagrid never finished his education. He never went on to any higher education either. Once his name was cleared of that awful mess when Riddle framed him and he returned from Azkaban, he never finished his formal training in school. He just returned as grounds keeper and teacher of Care of Magical Creatures. He admitted he was never really that good at magic anyways but his knowledge of fierce creatures was astounding so he stayed where he was comfortable. I wonder if Harry should have used the Elder wand to repair Hagrid's wand also, since it was obvious to Harry that Hagrid was never going to get rid of it and was still using it disguised in that pink umbrella
How is it that Aunt Petunia doesn't know that magic is not allowed for under age wizards in holidays (or outside school) till the owl in the second part? Lily was her own sister..surely their parents must've known. They were fond of Lily being a witch, she must've told them.
~Oh I think Petunia knew a great deal more then she let on through out the entire series. She just had bad feelings toward the entire magical community because she was never shown to have any magical abilities and that extended to when Dumbledore told her she couldn't go to Hogwarts after she wrote him a letter. After that she kind of put everything she knew to be magical out of her mind, as if that would make it all go away and not be real.
Natural curiosity must have eaten away at Petunia when Lily was home on holiday or summer break and she wanted to see what she learned. But Lily being one to follow rules would have told her that she wasn't allowed to do magic away from Hogwarts until she was of age and I just bet that Petunia didn't see it that way at all. I bet she thought Lily was deliberately not wanting to share her magical learning with her and we all know that is not true at all.

If Hagrid's name was cleared in the second part, then why couldn't he use his wand openly? Ok his wand was in two pieces, but couldn't he get a new one? Luna got after she lost hers in the seventh part. A new wand could chose him.
Is there something legal i'm missing here? Why couldn't he use a wand?

I suppose it's because he never finished his education, but I always thought, why not? He should be aloud to get a new wand if he wants to. The only thing is he didn't have much schooling and he admitted he didn't know a lot of magic, so I guess he just felt it wasn't worth the trouble. Maybe he had a sentimental attachment to his old wand. Who knows?

How is it that Aunt Petunia doesn't know that magic is not allowed for under age wizards in holidays (or outside school) till the owl in the second part? Lily was her own sister..surely their parents must've known. They were fond of Lily being a witch, she must've told them.

I have always thought that Aunt Petunia knew a lot more then she let on. It was obvious. Her growing up with a witch, it wasn't possible for her not to know about everything. And Lily seemed the type who would tell her everything. I think her envy for what Lily had overcame her eventually and she didn't want to listen to her anymore. Like nevillesgirl said, she probably thought Lily was deliberately not sharing her 'magical learning.' I've always felt kind of bad for Petunia.

The Hagird thing


the thing about him being a half giant came a year after his name was cleared..so..

Everyone's saying that since Hagrid didn't complete his education and wasn't a qualified wizard he didn't/couldn't use a wand. But the wand doesn't chose a wizard looking at their qualifications and all. It choses a wizard when he's just a small kid..and nobody actually knows what magical powers the kid can show in the future, right? So its all depends on the wand..So Hagrid being a qualified wizard or not shouldn't actually be a problem..welll?



I suppose i agree with this..yeah..we do tend to get attached to things like that (I still have my first ludo set i bought..even though so many things from it are lost )
Also..yeah his admission about not being good at magic..perhaps that's what stopped him from going to Ollivander..hmm..


Yeah..he should've done that..

The Aunt Petunia thing

Yes..that should be it..funny i never thought of it that way..hey thanks..
But you know..I read on MuggleNet.There was a question regarding Lily coming home for holidays and all..Petunia says in the first book..what was the exact sentence..wait i'll just check...
yeah..it went like..
"Knew!" shrieked Aunt Petunia....."-and came home every holiday with her pockets full of frog-spawn, turning teacups into rats..."
So people asked how come she was allowed to do magic.Jk answered that Lily used to get warnings now and then about that..so i guess she wasn't really the one who'd follow rules much..what say?

First post ever but I liked where this was going. I couldn't really see her breaking the rules. I mean Professor Slughorn goes on and on about how she was one of the brightest studets. For me it would be like imagining Hermione breaking the rules which we all know rarely happened.

Intruding Hufflepuff! I don't normally go into other House Threads, but this question struck me as one that I wanted to answer.

How is it that Aunt Petunia doesn't know that magic is not allowed for under age wizards in holidays (or outside school) till the owl in the second part? Lily was her own sister..surely their parents must've known. They were fond of Lily being a witch, she must've told them.

Well, everyone knows that the sisters never really had a good relationship. They grew very far apart after Lily got her letter to Hogwarts and Petunia didn't. So maybe because of the fact that she thought her sister was a "freak", she didn't want to know anything about her and her life. Really, the relationship in the later years didn't really go much farther than a Christmas present. Maybe a letter asking for something they left a while ago at the other's house.

Another thing, like Nasuada said, maybe she didn't say as much as she knew. She could've known, and having not thought about that for so many years, she temporarily forgot. If I had felt that way about my sister (which thankfully I don't), I would've forgotten everything possible about her. I would've not wanted to be associated with people who would be considered strange. Thank God I don't feel that way, though.

The final reason I can think of, is that Lily had modified her memory, but that doesn't make much sense, now does it?

Sadie

sadie_urlady523 nice of you to share your thoughts..psst..do you like our common room? It generally seems to be empty...only 25 or so posts..*sighs* Ravenclaw common room is always full of people..they're reached a century too..Feel comfortable...

First of, the sisters relationship was not good from Petunia's side only. Lily was always trying to be good to her..showing her things she could do before she got the letter. I think she even said she'd talk to Dumbledore about letting Petunia come to Hogwarts or something like that (Maybe I'm confused about this..but something of this sort she did say,right? )


lol..that's a really nice sense of humour there..i liked it really!!!


I was just strolling by in the castle (night time troll ) and I happened to find myself near the Ravenclaw Common Room..I was hesitant to enter..what if I got the wrong answer for that riddle of their's and you know that would look really stupid..
Jokes apart..They are discussing a little about Hagrid having a wand. I found one post really interesting there by Insomnia. It goes like...

But speaking of that, I don't know how he was able to get it to work at all considering it was snapped. Unless, it wasn't snapped at all, but hidden away in his umbrella. Maybe DD helped him out and a fake or replacement wand was snapped?
This is a part of Insomnia's post..for the complete post see page 7, post no#93 Ravenclaw Common Room.

Now their line of discussion is something different, something about how would it be if Hagrid had a wand..I'd like to include this part in our discussion of Hagrid's wand (with the permission of MODs)..
the thing about DD possibly helping him and letting him have it hidden in his umbrella..maybe he did have a proper wand after all and that's the reason he didn't want a new one after his name getting cleared. Isn't it possible that DD (who had the Elder Wand) mended Hagrid's and advised him to keep it hidden in his umbrella always..Ron's broken wand could not perform spells correctly..then how was Hagrid's snapped wand (hidden in the umbrella) able to perform spells correctly?

I was surely making sense of this when i thought about it..fellow Gryffindor's what do you have to say?

P.S. I really like this concept of Common Rooms..allows for a broader scope of Discussions. Can someone please tell me who's ingenious idea this was..really wonderful!

Quick Edit: There are some questions I'd like to ask..related to Peter and Sirius and Gryffindor too..So I was wondering if I could just put them all together at once or I should wait till one discussion is over..Personally I'd like to get this Hagrid's wand thing clear before I talk about anything else..MODs pls help me..
Thanks...

I'm not a Gryffindor, but can I answer, anyway?

I think that's a very interesting idea! Maybe Dumbledore did mend Hagrid's wand and have him keep it in his pink umbrella. 'Cause that's a really good point...when Ron's wand was broken, it always messed up. And I don't think that just because Hagrid's wand wasn't that one, or something, that it would behave differently. I think that if his had been broken, then it wouldn't have worked properly. So that's a really good idea...it would explain why he didn't want a new one and why his "umbrella" could work spells correctly.

Oh, and no worries, come by the Ravenclaw Common Room whenever you like!


Also, KyleKrunk13...I thought Hermione was always breaking the rules. She stole from Snape's private Potion stores, she would go and help Harry etc. after lights-out...the list goes on. So I thought it was more like she just hid her rule-breaking and because she was such a good student, anyway, some of the professors kind of turned a blind eye.

*sighs* I'm back to my beloved common room. It's that ... I've spent a time in the library

You know, I was just thinking...is Gryffidor considered the strongest among the four original house founders of Hogwarts? If so, what is it about Godric Gryffindor that makes it so? Gryffindors seem to get the highest honors within the school and also as a graduate. I mean, it is considered a privilege to be sorted into Gryffindor right?

Oh, I was thinking the same the very same day that this question was posted. I think Gryffindor was indeed a very brave man, and it's probably he won every battle there were in those times. And I suposse he was a fearless and ... kind of reckless and cheeky, like all the Gryffindors. He stole the sword, didn't he? Oh, and about the sword, I have a question for that, but for the end.

If Hagrid's name was cleared in the second part, then why couldn't he use his wand openly? Ok his wand was in two pieces, but couldn't he get a new one? Luna got after she lost hers in the seventh part. A new wand could chose him.
Is there something legal i'm missing here? Why couldn't he use a wand?

Well, this has been discussed previously in the Hagrid thread, but it has to do with Hagrid, though. Despite his name was cleared in CoS, the Ministry, the wizarding world, and most of people still suspected of Hagrid traits. DD, and of course the trio, but from the adults, DD was always the one who really saw the real Hagrid. The rest of the people, for instance, disgusting people like Umbridge, mistrusted of him, because even when they didn't know he was half-giant, his past history isn't good anyway. He did raised and released an acromantula, he got a three-headed dog, he got a dragon's egg, and that's just till CoS. So, I suppose maybe the very DD told him not to use a new wand, just in case he could cause trouble and the Ministry would go after him again. Then, there's the fact that Hagrid wasn't very capable in performing complex spells, since he left in his third year, so it's probably DD, using both facts, just mended his wand in something so ludicrous and innocent looking thing like an umbrella.

But speaking of that, I don't know how he was able to get it to work at all considering it was snapped. Unless, it wasn't snapped at all, but hidden away in his umbrella. Maybe DD helped him out and a fake or replacement wand was snapped?

No, I think it was really the mended one. First, because snapped wands are still able to perform little magic, and secondly, because DD was already Master of the Elder Wand! As Hagrid didn't know anything, I'm sure DD told him the wand wasn't that badly snapped and he could mend it pretty well.

How is it that Aunt Petunia doesn't know that magic is not allowed for under age wizards in holidays (or outside school) till the owl in the second part? Lily was her own sister..surely their parents must've known. They were fond of Lily being a witch, she must've told them.



Good point. Petunia pretended she didn't have a sister, after all, and she tried hard to forget everything related to their world. She did remember Azkaban, but she was influenced by a certain concern. On the opposite, I'm sure she forgot anything else.

Ok, here's my question (maybe you've discussed this before, fellows, but just tell me): What did you feel towards Godric Gryffindor when you found out he had stolen the sword from a goblin? Like Harry, or it wasn't very important to you?

I didn't feel it was too important, because in those ages, battles happened often, as my first point, and so things were stolen from here to there. Then, goblins are so ... presumptuous, exagerated and unpleasant, beyond thier good qualities, that it's probably Gryffindor had bought it to ... Ragnuk? and goblins keep saying that he stole it, like about the diadem.

What did you feel towards Godric Gryffindor when you found out he had stolen the sword from a goblin? Like Harry, or it wasn't very important to you?



It didn't phase me whatsoever. After all, he only stole it in the eyes of the goblins, not wizards. And goblins are a bit possessive about the items they make. But no, in my eyes he didn't steal the sword, he bought it fair and square and it's rightfully his and to those he gives it to after he passes away.

-Nick
HJP

Hmm..I'm gonna drop the Hagrid thing now..I'm contented enough..Although I was waiting for some specific people to reply to that...but its ok..last thoughts about it though..


Well..yes i knew Umbridge's name was going to be dragged into this..but I really didn't want to say it myself. Her line of thinking is ...can i say stupid (?) (pls don't take it as foul language)..all that Umbridge would go was for breeds..so there's really no point in talking about that..wands for specific breeds only, is something I don't agree ..unless the breed cannot think for itself in a proper way


I guess this sums it all up..
Thank you all for answering this question..Ever since I had finished reading PoA, I wanted to ask this..

Next, about the Petunia thing..thanks again for all the answers..I'm really really satisfied about that particular question..and DeSs..gee..you quoted me ..I don't know why I feel that way when someone quotes me..

Coming to your question...
What did you feel towards Godric Gryffindor when you found out he had stolen the sword from a goblin? Like Harry, or it wasn't very important to you?

He stole the sword? Golly! I never thought of it that way.. wait let me just check the exact lines the goblin says...yeah it says..
Page 409, Bloomsbury publication
'No!' cried the goblin...'Wizarding arrogance again! That sword was Ragnuk the First's, taken from him by Godric Gryffindor! It is a lost treasure, a masterpiece of goblinwork! It belongs with the goblins! The sword is the price of my hire, take it or leave it!

ok..so this is what he said..Personally i don't belive it. See later on in the same chapter when Griphook sees the tiara, he's again telling that it is goblins' and all. Bill points out that it is made by goblins and paid by wizards. He also tells Harry that goblins belive once the owner of the purchased goblinmade item is dead, they consider it to be handed back to them or something.. My belief regarding the sword is that Gryffindor paid for the sword alright which was made by Ragnuk the First. But since Gryffindor's death, the goblins want the sword back. Hence, Griphook tells the trio that Gryffindor stole it.

Coming to the second part of your question..Even if he did steal the sword (no i really don't think he did)..but worst case..If he did..well that wouldn't make any difference to me..Godric Gryffindor was a brave man..a very brave man..the founder of Gryffindor house..considering the qualities Gryffindor's have..he must've had a nice one-on-one fight with Ragnuk the First..and them with all the dramatic punches he must've have triumphed..and taken the sword..how possible does that look now?
The bottom line is..it wouldnt make any difference to me. As DeSs rightly pointed, in those days battles happened often and things getting stolen was like having your daily meals..so ok..
but i don't think he stole the sword

A little personal note here..DeSs..I was wondering why the capital 'S' in between..very innovative though! and i like your siggy too..

I thought of Gryffindor's "theft" as an inheritance gone bad. I figured his got the sword as a gift from his father. Ragnuk believed it came back to him (since goblin stuff does not pass from wizard to wizard in the eyes of goblins). Godric disagreed and the theft occurred.

Yeah, I think it was probably more of a misunderstanding. Although I don't agree with saying that just because the goblins think it's a theft and the wizards don't, that means the goblins are automatically wrong. Then you're discriminating against goblins. Wizards aren't always right.

That being said, in the case of Gryffindor's sword, I do think that it was probably just a misunderstanding about what would happen when he died, or how exactly the sale of it or whatever would take place.

Eisa you're right in saying wizard's always aren't right. But who is? In the matter of the sword, I don't think the goblins version is right. Now i really don't want to discriminate between goblins and wizards..but in the case of the sword it just doesn't seem true (what the goblins had to say).. If the sword didn't belong to Gryffindor truly and wholly, it would never come out of the hat. I think that should satisfy everyone enough that the sword did indeed belong to Gryffindor.
You say something about a misunderstanding happening when Gryffindor dies and the sword being passed..hmm.. what I think is that once an item is purchased it belongs to the purchaser and when he dies he mentions in his Will to whom it should pass. Probably Gryffindor put it in his Will that the sword belongs to all Gryffindors after his death and thats the way it was being passed on. Apparently the goblins dont belive in Wills, especially for goblin made items. In their eyes once the owner of the said item (which is goblin made) dies, the item should be back to the goblins...
Let me know what you guys think..

a question...
Sirius Black never had a trial we know. But in PoA when he's up in Flitwick's office why couldn't/didn't they use the veritaserum to get the real truth? He didn't have the Dark Mark for one thing on his arm to classify him as a Death eater.

Sirius Black never had a trial we know. But in PoA when he's up in Flitwick's office why couldn't/didn't they use the veritaserum to get the real truth? He didn't have the Dark Mark for one thing on his arm to classify him as a Death eater.

I don't think they wanted to know the truth, that's why they didn't use Veritaserum. Fudge was so desperate to keep hold of his office, his reputation and he wanted to capture the man who's been making him look like a fool for the past year. So when they capture him, I don' think they care. All Fudge wants is to get on the good side of the public again.


-Nick
HJP

I don't think Godric Gryffindor stole the sword. It was as many has stated before me a misunderstand. Bill says also in DH that goblins believe that the goblin who made the sword should be the owner of the sword, but as we know wizards believe that the person that buys the sword is the owner. But if Godric Gryffindor had stolen the sword it wouldn't have bothered me that much, because Godric isn't one of the major characters in the book and we don't really know that much about him anyway

Sirius Black never had a trial we know. But in PoA when he's up in Flitwick's office why couldn't/didn't they use the veritaserum to get the real truth? He didn't have the Dark Mark for one thing on his arm to classify him as a Death eater.

I completely agree with Harry James Potter on this one. Fudge probably just wanted someone to imprison so that he could show that he wasn't completely incompetent. Plus Sirius was the perfect suspect. His family was known for having a lot to do with Voldemort. His mother wasn't a huge fan of muggleborns and his brother was a death eater.

What did you feel towards Godric Gryffindor when you found out he had stolen the sword from a goblin? Like Harry, or it wasn't very important to you?

Here's how I see it: you have two races (if you will) who believe two different things. And you have two races who believe that their beliefs are the right one. Does this sound familiar? You have people in real life who believe this. The different religions all around the world that believe my way is the right way. So you have the goblins who truly believe that once an item is made by them, if it is sold and the purchaser dies, than that item should rightfully go back to them. Its a law to them, if you want to look at it that way.

Than you have the wizards (namely Gryffindor) who truly believed that the sword belonged to him, he had it made for him and he bought it fair and square right? And when he died, he passed it on to other Gryffindors who could use it in their time of need. This was his belief and the wizarding worlds belief.

So who's right? Who's wrong? Both parties believe that they are in the right. The goblins don't look at the wizarding worlds ideas, they don't care for them. Just like an aethiest wouldn't care for a Christians belief or values. Same goes for the wizards with the goblins. The others' values don't mean diddly squat to the other.

I don't think Gryffindor meant to steal anything from anybody. He had the sword made for him and he bought it and he passed it along because it was his to pass on. Thats what he believed. Personally I don't like the goblin's point of view on this. That would be like someone buying a necklace I made from me, than that person dies and I go to the family and say, "Uh excuse me, I made that necklace for her but she isn't here anymore I'd like it back". The concept makes no sense to me at all.

Sirius Black never had a trial we know. But in PoA when he's up in Flitwick's office why couldn't/didn't they use the veritaserum to get the real truth? He didn't have the Dark Mark for one thing on his arm to classify him as a Death eater.

I agree with Harry James Potter on this one. Fudge and everyone else were ready to put the blame on someone, anyone for what was happening and Sirius's was the perfect scapegoat. This happens in everyday life. The wrong person is arrested and accused of a crime because the community is pushing for the cops to find whoever is guilty and bring them to justice. The pressure is huge and all the authorities want to do is get it off their backs. So what do they do? They find a scapegoat just to make the people happy. It doesn't matter if they are right or wrong. I also think at the point in Flitwick's office, Black knew he was innocent and he didn't care who believed him or not. His main concern wasn't clearing his name.

Sirius Black never had a trial we know. But in PoA when he's up in Flitwick's office why couldn't/didn't they use the veritaserum to get the real truth? He didn't have the Dark Mark for one thing on his arm to classify him as a Death eater.

Yeah, I agree. Fudge didn't want to know the truth. If he found out the truth, then it would mean that he was wrong. And he'd BEEN wrong all those years. And I don't think someone with his kind of personality could take being wrong. His reputation would dramatically suffer for putting an innocent person in Azkaban for all those years. It "looked" cut-and-dried, and he was content to leave it that way, even if it meant leaving or trying to put an innocent person back in prison.

For that matter, way back when, they should have used the Veritaserum on him to find out the truth. Even if it did look like he had clearly done it. I always wish that we can go past "beyond a reasonable doubt" because that still means there IS a doubt.

But yeah, I think Fudge just didn't want to admit to the public the possibility that he'd been wrong.

What did you feel towards Godric Gryffindor when you found out he had stolen the sword from a goblin? Like Harry, or it wasn't very important to you?

yeah this didnt phase me either. After all it was his.

~RG1521

What did you feel towards Godric Gryffindor when you found out he had stolen the sword from a goblin? Like Harry, or it wasn't very important to you?

Ooo Interesting topic. Does anyone remember when, in the DH, they were talking about wizards buying goblin made objects? I think that, perhaps, Godric brought the sword and, in the goblins mind, didn't return it. I don't have the books with me right now but I’m pretty certain someone said something along the lines of, "Goblins see wizards paying more as renting the object." (I don't have a very good memory for this kind of thing). So I guess when the sword wasn't returned after Godric died, the goblins instantly presumed that it was stolen, hence the whole Godric stealing the sword thing. All the while, Godric saw his payment as a full payment and he simply past it onto his heir or something. Maybe the details of the buying or renting were confused and the goblins presumed that he would simply know to bring it back.
Then again,
Nobody's perfect. Godric could have been sorely tempted or maybe he wasn't as great as we think he is, for all we know he could of been a raving kleptomaniac.

Cheers,
Missy.

Hello Griffindors, i am a Hufflepuff here, sorry for the intrusion.

What did you feel towards Godric Gryffindor when you found out he had stolen the sword from a goblin? Like Harry, or it wasn't very important to you?

Extending from what lupin<3tonks said, the situation between the Goblins' belief and wizards does happen in our world. I have living proof in my family: you see my mum and my dad don't exactly see eye to eye, when they argue it's like neither of them take into account eachother's ideas. They don't appreciate each other in other words. My sister has pretty much taken on the same habbit, she has a big temper (like my mum) and if she's not aloud to make her point then she starts to get louder and louder and basically she comes down on people and she says very harsh things. Me, being a true hufflepuff, find it unecessary to shout and i personally don't like to hurt people's feelings.

My opinion on this Godric Griffindor and Goblin feud is that it was wrong of Griphook (or the goblins) to push wizards into abiding by their rules. It's like telling a hindu to abide by the testaments of christianity. Each person has a right to believe whatever they want to believe. In fact, it's useless having wizards and goblins live under the same roof because they just don't listen to eachother's opinions. You may of course find wizards who will listen to a goblin and understand the way they live, but whilst they have opposite beliefs from wizards it's impossible to have a good relationship with a goblin. (again, i emphasise my mum and dad as an example).

In the matter of the sword...
Everyone seems to be saying the same thing...The different beliefs of two different magical communities. monkeymushroom (really funny name) makes a very good point here in saying


lupin<3tonks also makes the same point


I emphasise the 'it was his' point here..He purchased it fair and sqaure. And like I said previously, he must've put it in his Will for the sword to be passed on to Gryffindors. Wizarding Wills, as we all know from HBP, work differntly. There is a magical seal to it once it is made. Harry inheriting Kreacher and the Black House, Harry inheriting the snitch from DD's Will (did the snitch belong to DD?)..all these examples I want to point out just because they show the manner in which wizard Wills work.

The Bottomline (I think we've been discussing this for long now )
Godric Gryffindor did indeed own the sword. He bough it from the goblins. The goblins think it should come back to them once he's dead...If the sword hadn't belonged to Gryffindor truly, it wouldn't come out of the Sorting Hat...The tale of him stealing it from Ragnuk the First seems the sort of thing gobins (who are very shrewd mind you) do to have things their own way and to get an upper hand on the so called wand carriers...

I guess this sums it all up now...


Very funny indeed...

Coming to the Sirius question I had put up
Sirius Black never had a trial we know. But in PoA when he's up in Flitwick's office why couldn't/didn't they use the veritaserum to get the real truth? He didn't have the Dark Mark for one thing on his arm to classify him as a Death eater.

First thing I'd like to say..


If you remember, Sirius had said in GoF..permit me to use the exact words here now..
Pg 457 Bloomsbury Publications
"Imagine Voldemort's powerful now. You don't know who his supporters are, you don't know who's working for him and who isn't, you know he can control people and make them do terrible things without being able to stop themselves...the Ministry of Magic's in a disarray..."
He adds a little further..
"...The Auror's were given new power-the power to kill rather than capture,for instance. I wasn't the only one handed over to the dementors without a trial. Crouch fought violence with violence..."

In those days, Crouch headed the Auror office and he had become ruthless and as bad as the Death Eaters. Sirius was caught on the scene of crime with a bunch of muggle witnesses and Pettigrew shouting about his supposed betrayl. Voldemort had just fallen. It was just the very next day Sirius was caught. The Ministry was still rounding up Death Eaters. It was higly unlikey that they'd use veritaserum at that time on Sirius (or anybody else) to get testimonies, isnt it?

Coming to answering the question..


Agreed, this made him the suspect for sure. Does it qualify enough to ordering the Dememtor kiss on Sirius..?

Really..guys my question, I fear, is misunderstood..
What I meant to ask was..
In PoA..that is 13 years after the fall of Voldemort, why didn't/couldn't the ministry use the veritaserum to know the truth. It is the stongest truth potion. Then there's the fact that Sirius did NOT have the Dark Mark to be a Death Eater. They said he was the right hand of Voldy. Funny the best man didn't have the dark mark and a no good one such as Wormtail had it eh?

I don't know..I'm really not sure...what you are saying about Fudge is accepted and ofcourse is correct. But it doesn't seem to link with the doubt I'm having..

WEASLETTE...GINNY POTTER, I think I kind of understand what you are asking. You wanted to know why they didn't use the Veritaserum AFTER he escaped from Azkaban and was at Hogwarts right? Why didn't he want to clear up his name right then and there? Everyone, including myself, having been answering as though you asked why didn't they use the serum on him WHEN he was caught all those years ago. And then we went into a long spew about Fudge, am I correct??

Er..yes lupin<3tonks..exactly! finally!

As i've pointed out in the previous post, it was highly unlikely that the Ministry using veritaserum to get the truth. Nobody would bother then, the situation was different. As much as i would have liked Sirius to have a trial then, I understand the Ministry's actions. They just couldnt trust anyone then..but i'm asking about 13 years later..different time, different situation..

Thanks a lot for letting me know you understood *I feel silly about this*

Now that we've set that up, please let me know what you all think..

~Weaslette...Ginny Potter

WEASLETTE...GINNY POTTER, I always wondered why they didn't just give him Veritaserum at Hogwarts. It would have been so easy. He wouldn't have been guilty and they wouldn't have given him to the dementors and wouldn't have had to escape at all! I guess they were too lazy to bother. And with the way Fudge is, he was probably convinced that he was guilty and didn't want to be proven otherwise. Unfortunately, they didn't give him Veritaserum and get the truth, but he did escape so........ yeah.

Chelsea

What did you feel towards Godric Gryffindor when you found out he had stolen the sword from a goblin? Like Harry, or it wasn't very important to you?

I ddint thinks that Griffindor ever stole the sword.. as Bill immediately justified that Griffindor had rightly bought it from the goblins.. He also told Harry that Goblins thought that they have right on everything they make.. Thus, I never felt that Griffindor was a thief or something, I held him and I am holding him in the same respectable position as ever.

Sirius Black never had a trial we know. But in PoA when he's up in Flitwick's office why couldn't/didn't they use the veritaserum to get the real truth? He didn't have the Dark Mark for one thing on his arm to classify him as a Death eater


As WEASLETTE...GINNY POTTER said, I too supoort the fact that Fudge was eagar to arrest Sirius and thus, without a slight hesitation, ordered the Dementor kiss on sirius. But,I would like to ask a question which popped up in my mind while reading post from WEASLETTE...GINNY POTTER...

Sirius didnt have a dark mark on his hand, then why didnt he use that fact to defend himself when he was first arrested? The ministry thought he was the most loyal servant to Voldemort, then why none of then checked the mark?

Well I sort of answered your question WEASLETTE...GINNY POTTER, I think Sirius didn't care to clear his name at that point in time. He had other things on his mind, he knew he was innocent as did others and thats all that mattered to him. Clearing his name was not at the top of his priorty list. At least thats my opinion.

Sirius didnt have a dark mark on his hand, then why didnt he use that fact to defend himself when he was first arrested? The ministry thought he was the most loyal servant to Voldemort, then why none of then checked the mark?

I'm not good on my Harry Potter history, but do all of Voldemort's followers, especially his close ones, did they have to have the dark mark? I mean maybe they thought Sirius didn't get one because of course that would be a dead give away that he was a LV follower.Maybe they thought, "Oh well he doesn't have one because he knows that we will see it and it would give him away. So he really does work with LV, he just doesn't have the mark!" You know what I'm saying? I hope it makes sense. I think they were so convinced that they didn't care about any evidence that might disprove their accusation. And even if they did, they would try to find some way to explain it.

Sirius didnt have a dark mark on his hand, then why didnt he use that fact to defend himself when he was first arrested? The ministry thought he was the most loyal servant to Voldemort, then why none of then checked the mark?
I was thinking the same thing lupin<3tonks they were convinced he was guilty and were determined to put the blame on someone so as far as they were concerned they had enough evidence - remember what Fudge was like when he was convinced Voldemort wasn't back in OOTP and how determined they were to punish Harry - the Ministry has a lot of power and for them Sirius was a guilty man whether he had the dark mark or not

Oh, WEASLETTE, dear ... you blushed 'cause I quoted you, and you quoted me like 20 times there! How I'm supposed to feel now?? plus

Well, the capital S is just random, nothing too original And thanks about my siggy! (despite I already changed it ... again)



From his father? I don't think so. I think that, it's more likely he did won it, from the goblin itself or from another wizard who stole it first, or that he just bought it, or got it for exchange. Of course I agree with you, Eisa. As Hermione said, every 'inferior' creature has been victim of wizards, as we do with Muggles. People who is different from us, is wrong, or bad, or inferior. Ron said also that goblins aren't fluffy bunnies either, but it's for some reason. Centaurs could be rude, but how have wizards been with them?

Ok, I'm wandering off topic. But, Gripook was wrong indeed about that, and their conception about owning. Maybe Gryffindor left the sword to the school, like DD did with his posessions.

Sirius Black never had a trial we know. But in PoA when he's up in Flitwick's office why couldn't/didn't they use the veritaserum to get the real truth? He didn't have the Dark Mark for one thing on his arm to classify him as a Death eater.

I agree with the first post I read, Harry James Potter's. As it's happened in many other situations, they didn't want to know the truth. Even when the truth was rubbing them on their faces, even when Barty Crouch Jr had confessed he was a Death Eater, he had helped LV, and all the crimes, under the Vtm effects, they ignored it. Fudge's government didn't achieve many successes, so when they got anything to prove they were working hard, they grabbed it. The same as Scrimgeour: they imprisoned Stan, never minding whether he was Imperiused or not. I always wondered why Vtm was not very used in those cases, as for example, when they didn't know if the person was Imperiused, but ... I think it just convenience.

Sirius didnt have a dark mark on his hand, then why didnt he use that fact to defend himself when he was first arrested? The ministry thought he was the most loyal servant to Voldemort, then why none of then checked the mark?

Oh, sorry about I'm not reading the previous posts, but here's my answer. Sirius didn't defend hiumself at all when he was first arrested. They said he was even laughing, which I think is overexaggerated and ridiculous, but I think after Wormtail feign his death, killing all those Muggles along, he was shocked. His best friends had just died by his other friend's very hand. And he thought it was his fault in someway, cause he had suggested Wormtail as secret keeper. He had lost all his friends, but Remus, and in the hardest way he could imagine. I think that's why. He was just very shocked, and so he realised of what was happening when it was too late, and nobody never gave a damn to let him having a trial.

Congratulations to fellow Gryffindors for the VTM House Cup
I guess this calls for a celebration in the common room!! Yes,everybody's celebrating alright ..Butterbeer, puddings..and all those dishes Jk writes... ...

In a secluded corner..though..some people are discussing!

Sirius Black never had a trial we know. But in PoA when he's up in Flitwick's office why couldn't/didn't they use the veritaserum to get the real truth? He didn't have the Dark Mark for one thing on his arm to classify him as a Death eater

I finally found an answer to this question of mine.

"Sir, there are some other things I'd like to know, if you can tell me...things I want to know the truth about..."
"The truth." Dumbledore sighed. "It is a beautiful and terrible thing, and therefore should be treated with great caution."
-- (SS, 298, US version)

If only we knew who was telling the truth and who was lying. If only we could tell the true story from the false one. The innocent could be distinguished from the guilty, if only we could guarantee that witnesses and the accused are telling the truth, and nothing but the truth. Right?

As Muggles, we've attempted to determine the truthfulness of testimony through polygraph tests. However, as we well know, those are highly subjective and flawed. They are no guarantee of validity and are not reliable "lie detectors." But for the wizarding world, where much more is possible, it seems as though a good Truth Potion would solve all of the problems and confusions dealing with criminals and criminal trials. It's simple - just give a dose of Veritaserum or another Truth Potion to the witness before being "sworn in" and we'll have a reliable testimony. It seems, at first glance, to be a rather obvious solution that would clear up matters efficiently.

However, Truth Potions, upon closer look, are deadly double-edged devices. This is probably why the wizarding world doesn't use them in criminal trials. As there are ways around polygraph tests, there are ways in which Truth Potions can be abused.

A Truth Potion, by principle, does not make someone tell the truth, but what that someone perceives as the truth. A person could be quite mistaken in the events she/he witnessed, yet be completely "telling the truth" - that is, the truth according to him or her. A Truth Potion can only force one to reveal what one believes to be true and that is not necessarily the truth.

In the case of our good friend Sirius Black. As revealed in PoA, "'a street full of eyewitnesses swore they saw Sirius murder Pettigrew'" (PoA, 392), when that was not actually the case, and "'they didn't see what they thought they saw'" (PoA, 351). The Ministry, if it hypothetically administered Truth Potions, would find Black's story at odds with the testimony given by the witnesses and Dumbledore, even if all parties were "telling the truth" under the influence of the potion. How would the Ministry determine who is telling the truth, and who is telling the truth according to him? As there are several eyewitnesses and Dumbledore with stories that conflict with Sirius's, the Ministry would assume that Sirius is telling what he believes to be the truth rather than what actually happened.

This is the conclusion that Fudge comes to in GoF, when Dumbledore tells him about questioning Barty Crouch Jr. under the influence of Veritaserum. As Fudge says, "'Come now, come now...certainly Crouch may have believed himself to be acting upon You-Know-Who's orders - but to take the word of a lunatic like that, Dumbledore...'" (GoF, 704). Fudge immediately assumes that Barty Crouch Jr. was not telling the actual truth, but the perceived truth of a raving madman. This is the logical flaw of Veritaserum.



I guess this is the reason they didnt/couldnt use the VTM for Sirius 13 years after the fall of Voldy. Come to think of it, they could use it in any criminal trial, but they don't! Because it has flaws of its own. Just like how a shrewd person can come out undetected from the lie detector test...right?

Next,
Sirius didnt have a dark mark on his hand, then why didnt he use that fact to defend himself when he was first arrested? The ministry thought he was the most loyal servant to Voldemort, then why none of then checked the mark?



I think all Voldemort followers have the dark mark. Because they need that to immediately come to his summons.



I myself thought it that way. DD and everyone surely would not shove up sleeves of every other suspect to check whether the dark mark is there or not, but when the left arm is bare sometimes, one can't help looking to see if its there.

As to why the ministry didnt check the mark, I've already pointed out twice in my posts.. The scenario was very different. It was just the next day of LV's fall. Aurors were still rounding up death eaters. The powers they were given were still there. There was no question of any trial to any one.Sirius being caught in a whole street with muggle witnesses and Peter's ranting about his betrayal were enough for the ministry to give Sirius a ticket to Azkaban...

Sirius, I feel, was more of an extrovert. He was shocked and stupified as to what he saw. As he said so in PoA, he was feeling really guilty about suggesting Peter as the secret keeper. He'd lost everything, everyone. His only companion was his belief that he was innocent. He lived with it and it was the reason for his comeback too.
Maybe thats why he didnt care to defend himself. There was nothing for him to come for..
But when he sees Wormtail at Hogwarts (in the Daily Prophet), he uses his powers to come back! So it means that Sirius would do things only if he wanted and when needed. If he'd wanted to prove his innocence he'd do it then itself. Perhaps, he didnt chose it...

And DeSs...well I'm always quoting everybody. I like the posts people put here and love to read them. I'd be quoting someone millions of times. Don't feel like that when I quote..Because in comparison I don't think I rank more in being an HP fan like you all out there. My craze just started in 2006 December...It hardly counts when there are people who've stuck with it since 1997!

So...well...let the celebrations continue!