Hello, Great Hall Debaters!

This thread is for you to share your political opinions with others! It is open to any member of the Great Hall who would like to share with us your view on the political world of your country and of other countries. It's fairly open ended, and hopefully by offering this thread as a place to share what and why you support whichever party you support, we can all gain a better understanding of the way our political regimes work!

Before you begin, please make sure you know what I will not tolerate in this thread. I will not tolerate anyone condemning another person for their political views, no matter how different they are from your own. I will not tolerate any name calling - which does include generalizations. For example, please do not say anything like "everyone who believes in rubber ducks is stupid and ignorant of water fowl". (Yes, that was a completely unpolitical example. I know.) Do not use these posts as your own personal soap box to get others to believe as you do. Anyone who does any of the above mentioned activities will find themselves out of the Great Hall and onto Mod Preview faster than you can say "election".

Yes, you may question opposing political parties and ask others in this thread why they follow those parties. . .but you may not condemn them for it. This thread is to serve as a way to better understand each other and world politics. Use it as such.

What perfect timing. Just today I was reading trying to understand the UK's political system. I know it is a Constitional Monarchy but what role does the Queen still play and who has the real power in the UK? Is the House of Lords still hereditary based or are they voted in like the House of Commons.

I know the USA's system was designed somewhat on the Engilish model with the House of Representatives being the House of Commons and the Senate being the House of Lords. Of course the President filled the same position as the King. Our Senators were originally appointed by the States but they are now elected. That has changed from the original House of Lords model.

In the US we have primarily the Democratic party which traces it's roots to Thomas Jefferson and the Republicans which go back to Lincoln. How do our parties match up to the UK parties. Do the Democrats have similar views as the Labour Party and the Republicans the same as the Conservative Party.

I am a member of the US Republican party primarily because I believe in a limited Federal Government. Strangely enough, that was the basis that Thomas Jefferson founded his Democratic-Republican party on. How things have changed in 200+ years.

Almost all my politcal views come from that one idea of a small limited Federal Government. Why does the US government need to be involved in the education system? The US Constitution does not grant the Feds that authority. By our Constitution, that right falls to the States and the Feds have no business regulating it. The whole Department of Education needs to be axed and left to the States as our Founding Fathers intended. I will stop there for now as I could go on for days. I will let others chime in on their thoughts and views.

I have been reading alot of books lately on the founding of the USA, the Revolutionary War and the politics between England, France and the USA during that era. The transitions of the Engilsh government from that time to present day interests me and I would like to here the thoughts of some UK residents on the changes over the past 200 years both the pros and cons from your point of view.

Doesn't that have a proper name? Seems I remember studying that in one of my core classes in college.

I am also for limited government. I do not want the feds to dictate my life, because I feel that I can run my own life fine on my own. Unfortunately, so many people today (in the US) feel that it is the government's responsibility to take care of everyone.

I am for personal responsibility. I think everyone should be held responsible for his or her own actions. If you spill hot coffee on you, well, you knew it was hot, so why are you complaining? (yes, I am well aware that there were many other factors involved in that particular case). If you get electrocuted for drying your hair while in the tub, well next time use some common sense. Why do we have to have warnings on our appliances not to do stupid things with said appliances? There are more and more rules and regulations now in every aspect of our lives, brought on by more and more government intervention.

It is not the government's responsibility to be our caretaker or big brother, and when any political candidate wants to "fix" everyone's problems and woes, that scares me.

I guess I would have to say that I am a conservative republican. I don't totally agree with all the ideals of the republican party and frankly there are somethings that I don't agree with any party. Thats what makes democratic political systems so wonderful.
The thing that bothers me the most about politics is that no matter which party comes up with a great idea for a new bill, the other party automatically thinks its a terrible idea. Like this bipartisan $700 billion bill that keeps getting turned down. If it is suppose to be a bipartisan, collective House/Senate bill that really does need to be passed then why do they keep turning it down? Is it because, lets say for argument sake that it was a republican idea and so the dems voted no; or vice versa, this isn't going to help the American public. I don't have the answers, but something has got to change.

First I have to say Passerby...You reminded me so much of Madam Hooch. The Hogwarts flying teacher. When she says something like..."If I see anyone on their broom they'll find themselves out of Hogwarts before they can say Quidditch"



HAHA I know that you message is serious..it just made me laugh a bit.

*Clears Throat*

Now down to business...

So I'm pretty much standing here with a big sign on my forehead that says "Stone me now". I'm a democrat. But personally I don't like either candidate running for office here in the US. I don't think either of them is going to be able to fix our broken country.

I know...quiet a few Republicans dislike Bill Clinton. But let me just say, that when he was president my family had a better life. I was a bit young to remember everything about his campaign but I know one thing for sure..Democrats are for the "little" people. The working class....the middle class that seems to be disappearing. Under Bush...my entire family is struggling. To keep houses, find jobs, live in their means...all the while gas is going up, food is going up, energy is going up and the cost of living isn't enough. But, all the tax breaks for the wealthy sure are helping us out!

Ravesblood, I totally see what you're saying about:

I agree with you here 100%. There isn't a candidate right now that I trust...at all. In politics it just seems like Dems. Vs. Reps...who can get in more digs than the other. I'm tired of parties bickering back and forth. And I think we need to get back to our own constitution. We are on the wrong road and going further from what our founders intended. The Constitution has worked for decades and decades...we need to get back to it.

About this $700 billion bill...I think it's a wash! Instead of bailing out all these banks and major corporations...who don't deserve it...why not help the AMERICAN PEOPLE. The ones who are losing everything. Back in the 70's and 80's to buy a house you had to have good credit and at least 20% down. What happened to that? Banks got greedy...giving loans to anyone, giving credit cards and homes to illegal immigrants...but WE THE PEOPLE are supposed to pay for their mistakes? Our taxes are going to go up to pay for this 700 billion dollar bill? People can barely hang on to what they have now...how can they afford to pay more taxes?

My Husband and I bought our home about 5 years ago. We aren't as bad off as those who are losing their homes...but we are finding it more difficult each paycheck. We used to be able to save...now we live paycheck to paycheck like a lot of Americans. So what do we do? My husbands decides to go to Iraq and make extra money...to pay off as much as we can..so we can survive the worst that hasn't even come yet. I keep hearing inflation, recession and when I started to hear financial experts talk about "depression"...I got worried. And I know a lot of people Republicans and Democrats that feel the same way.

I just don't get it! I watch Glenn Beck, Headline News and everyone is just screaming for Washington to listen. I guess the one quality you have to have to run for political office is the lack of a conscience.


Dawn

PS ChannelingGinny I love your siggy

I agree with Dawn on the points that in order to be a politician you can't have a conscience! I still think the majority of the politicians are in it for personal gain.

As for the $700B bailout. It's a sad thing to have to happen, and I think some of what was put in it could hurt the smaller banks in the long run. However, I think the gov't had to do the bailout in order the keep another Great Depression from happening. If the big banks fail, with a lot of our country's money in these banks, then we could have another run on the banks like what happened back in 1929. What would happen if everyone decided to take their money out of the bank? At most banks, your money is only insured up to a certain amount ($100,000?). Granted, most people don't have over $100,000 in a bank, but what if the people that DO have more than that in a bank decide to take it out to make sure they don't lose it? Will there be enough left in the smaller accounts to keep the bank afloat? I know of several people who have moved funds around in order to save their investments, so there has to be more out there doing the same.

As for how people are faring under each administration... you have to look at what was happening in the past administration, which "party" was in control of the house/senate during that administration. When it all comes down to it, every party is responsible for what is happening and what has happened. One administration can propose economic/domestic/foreign plans, but if the opposite party is in control of the house and senate, then it's the controlling party's plans that get put into action, not the administration's. This all goes back to what we all seem to agree upon: It's always an Us vs. Them mentality. If the Dems have a great plan, the GOPs will probably shoot it down and if the GOPs come up with an equally great plan the Dems will do all they can to stop it. That's what is keeping us from moving forward. I don't think you can blame an administration for things not going well or give kudos to an administration for things that DO go well if the opposing party is in control of the house/senate. If things go wrong, then it's everyone's fault and if things go great, then both parties should share in the glory. Unfortunately, most Americans won't look at history and see who did what, and that's what the politicians are banking on... that we won't think for ourselves and just accept the sound bytes and talking points that are put out there.

Right now I'm so tired of all the political hooha that's on our airwaves right now, from both parties. I'm tired of politicians NOT answering the hard questions and NOT admitting when they are wrong, I'm tired of commentators side-stepping the facts when the facts could shine a negative light on their favored candidate... and this is from both parties. I just want this to be all over. I hate election years (but I do vote!)

Actually, I just want to move to my own island where no one is allowed to be in charge!

ChannelingGinny, I agree with this 100% I wish politicians especially presidential candidates could just come right out and say...this is what I stand for, this is what I believe in, this is what I'm going to do and this is how. Put it in layman's terms! Be honest, bold and just say what you're all about. And for heavens sake...stop bickering! Honestly it's like we have a bunch of whiny brats in office. I'm getting tired of it all as well. Maybe I'll get my own Island next to yours and we'll send notes in bottles back and forth!


Dawn

Anyone can share my island as long as politics is not discussed and everyone just promises to have a good time and no-one attempts to become the queen (or king) bee!

I wonder if the politicians think we're as stupid as they assume since they tend to do the same thing election year after election year. They have to realize that some of us can actually think for ourselves and can see through all their rhetoric.

I also wonder if other democracies have this type of problem during election years. I've never heard of mudslinging going on in other countries, but it must have to happen. My best friend lived in London in 1984. During that election year we had a HUGE mud-slinging fiasco in our state (NC) for the senate race. More money was spent in that senate race than any other political race in HISTORY (to that time) and that includes the presidential races! The mud-slinging here even made the news in London, and needless to say my friend was a bit embarrassed that it was coming from her home state. When I got to college and took political science, the same senate race/mud-slinging/high-spending made it into our textbook. Can a political office really be worth all that?

Kathleen

I have to say I love politics to bits. Not the way it is run but more to discuss certain issues with people who are not like-minded. Yes I actually love heated debates on TVs etc.
Anyway I don't really know if you have a clue about the German politics or about the parties that are represented in parlamants but we have five "relevant" parties representing us in parliamnt. The only parties that get elected that means.
You may know our female chancellor Merkel, she and her party(Christian Democrats) are the rightest wing that is allowed in Germany (or that gets really elected). She is no Nazi(who still exist but noone really bothers) but she is center-right which means that she is more into Capitalism than the rest. Meanwhile really close to them is our "Labour Party" (SPD). Much more center than left but much more left than the UK Labours (huge difference). I don't like any of these parties but they are the biggest two. Now there is also far-left and just center. They don't do anythin properly in my opinion. So we come to the Greens who are just left and who get my voice in every election. Yes, I am left. And just like the Greens I am a Pacifist. Initially the party's program included to abandon the German Army but they dropped that but I still share this oppinion.
I am also concerned about Human Rights and environmental protection and I think the way the party wants to handle politics is the only way to avoid more trouble for Germany. That's it bascially.

I live in the U.S. and I'm a Conservative. I'm not going to go into how I feel about the election, because I would end up going on forever.

I was listening to the Goblet of Fire on cd with my siblings last week and I realized that what's going on in this country is like what went on in Harry Potter. There are so many people who are blinded in this country. The media, the papers and the news never publish the truth. All they say is what they want people to hear. Like the Daily Prophet in OotP. Something Dumbledore said really made me feel that this is exactly what is going on now. He said in the Goblet of Fire and I quote:

".....We are only as strong as we are united, as weak as we are divided. We can fight it only by showing an equally strong bond of friendship and trust. Differences of habit and language are nothing at all if our aims are identical and our hearts are open.
It is my belief -- and never have I so hoped that I am mistaken -- that we are all facing dark and difficult times."

That is exactly what is happening in the U.S.! Everything is being taken over by evil, it shows every day. And I'm afraid that in the end, there's going to be a great battle. A battle for good against evil. As it says also in the bible.

Chelsea

Well said Chelsea!!! I've been feeling the same way. Great comparison by the way!! I feel as though no matter who becomes president the problems in the US are NOT going to be fixed. I'm so tired of hearing bickering back and forth.

Give me the facts, tell me what you plan to do...and don't lie to my face. Politics seems to have gone to the extreme. Walk all over anyone you can to get where you want to be. I've never believed in that.

My mom and her boss were talking about the election a few days ago and it got pretty heated. Her boss blames the Democrats (She's a republican obviously). My mom is a Democrat but doesn't care for Obama and she blames everyone. It's not just one party, it's all of them.

My moms boss asked her who I was voting for and my mom told her no one. Naturally her boss was outraged, saying it's my civil duty and blah blah blah! I don't like Obama or McCain. I feel as though it's my civil duty to be true to myself. I'm not going to vote for people I don't believe in. I voted in the primaries, the last house and senate race and the last Presidential campaign. But not this time, I don't trust either of them. And I think a lot of Americans feel the same way.

Dawn

Dawn, yes I agree with you about not liking either of the candidates. Both men are, unsuitable to be President for the same and different reasons. I don't like either of them, but have decided that McCain is the 'lesser of the two evils', so to speak. Until McCain chose Sarah Palin as VP we hadn't been sure what to do. But since he chose her, we feel a little better voting for him. He's still not a good man, but we would never vote for Obama.

But McCain hasn't stood up for himself, so my family and I are almost expecting Obama to become president. Until then, we are continuing to pray for him and that somehow people will see through all the lies before the election. That's all we can hope for. It's very true what you said, Dawn. Neither of them can be trusted, but I've established that McCain would be better for the country than Obama. I'm sorry, not meaning to offend anyone, but I can't imagine what will happen to this country if Obama becomes president.

If I could vote, I would, but unfortunately I'm not old enough. Even in times such as this where we know the outcome isn't going to be good either way, voting is the only voice of the people of this country. If I could vote, I would, even though I know I won't be able to until I'm older. I know my voice is a small one, but if all the small voices get together we can change the outcome. My dad is not planning on voting, but if I can, I'm going to try to convince him too. Not only because it's his duty, but it's his voice to show the country how he feels.

Chelsea

Chelsea, I agree with you that everyone's voice is important. No matter how small. But, just because someone isn't voting doesn't mean they aren't doing their patriotic duty. Like take me for example...I'm not voting because I don't trust either candidate and that in itself is my voice. I'm saying loud and clear that I do NOT agree with either of them and I will NOT support either of them.

I use to feel the same way as you when I wasn't old enough to vote. I wanted to so bad when Gore and Bush were going at it for the presidency, but I was to young. But voting is an important thing. It's not something to take lightly, that's why I'm not voting. If there was an Independent running that I liked, I'd vote for that person. But the fact is, we are STUCK with Obama or McCain for 4 years and I don't want to be a part of either ministration.

Maybe your dad feels the same way...I don't know. But I do know a lot of people that feel the same way I do. A lot of people are scared for the future, it's only going to get worse. And I don't believe that these two have the answers.

If I could give you my vote, I would. Everyone's voice is important, even those who can't vote yet. After all it's our generation that is inheriting these problems for many years to come.

Dawn

Dawn, yeah, you're right. It is going to be really hard for our generation. I mean, it is already, but it's just going to get worse. When I'm at my grandparents' house and we're listening to talk radio, she will occasionally pat my arm and say that's she's sorry that I live through times such as these. Yes, there have been many times where I say I wish I lived in a different time, but God wanted me here in this time for some reason. Then I think, oh if only there could be another Ronald Reagan who would come and straighten this country out. But there's not. And there isn't. So all I can do, is pray for this country along with everyone else who sees what's happening and understands it's wrong.

And please don't think I was criticizing you, Dawn. I don't think that if people don't vote that they aren't fulfilling their patriotic duty. I can understand what you're saying too. I know a lot of people who aren't voting either because they are so disgusted with both candidates. I mean, my whole family is disgusted with both candidates, but the main reason we're voting for McCain is like I said, Sarah Palin. We think she's pretty darn awesome. If only she was running for president! She's what this country needs. She's not mixed up with all the stuff in Washington D.C. She's got a great mind and recently I was joking to my mom that if McCain doesn't win, we should move to Alaska.

Chelsea

HAHA!! Chelsea, that's funny! My mom lived there for a few years and she LOVED it!!! She says is absolutely gorgeous.

I know you weren't criticizing me. So don't worry about that. I was just explaining how I felt about the whole issue. To be honest...(I'm not trying to be sexist or anything) but I think it's about time to have a woman president. I know some people don't like the Clinton's...and I'm not going to get into all of that, but Hillary Clinton was the candidate I voted for, for the democratic nomination. I went to her rallies and agreed with her on a lot of issues! I have pictures I took of her...I was so excited. It was my first rally ever!!!

Anyways...I just wish we had someone reliable. To me, politicians are all the same, you just have to pick the best one you can find. Which is hard! LOL They all have one hand in the cookie jar and the other up their butt. This country would be better off if kids ran it.

So obviously, I'm a little fed up with Washington. I just hope that who ever is president will do the right things and look out for the American people and NOT big businesses.

Dawn **Shrugs** I don't think we are going to have a good 4 years, either way.

Dawn, haha, I'm glad you enjoyed it. I've heard Alaska is a very beautiful place, but I wouldn't go just for the scenery. The politics there are wonderful! All due to Sarah Palin. But yes, haha.

I agree with you about needing a change and not an 'Obama kind of change.' I can't agree with you about Hillary Clinton though.



I actually don't think so. Too many kids in this country are badly influenced in the schools. Fortunately, I've been kept away from it. I'm home schooled and very grateful for it. I've been taught differently than the kids in public school.

Well, to kind of sum it up for you, here's what I look for in a person running for office.

1- And this is always at the top of my list, they are Pro-Life. That right there says a lot. McCain and Palin are Pro-Life and Barack Obama is not. Neither is Hillary Clinton for that matter. Life is precious and anyone who thinks it's okay to destroy and kill living human beings, well, I don't want them running our country. Let's put it that way. Nobody take that personally, please. It was not intended as an offense.

2- No gay marriage. That's another big one. I believe in what the bible says about marriage:
"For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and they will become one flesh." - Genesis 2:24
Anyone who fights against gay marriage, I'm on their side, most of the time.

3- Being against the Global warming theory. And please realize, I am not personally attacking anyone, I'm just saying what I look for in a good politician. I don't believe in the global warming theory and I think we should drill here in the U.S. and stop relying on foreign countries for oil.

Those are my main top three sort of 'qualifications'. And they can't just say it. I've done a lot of research over the past six months and found out so much about Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton in these issues and I don't agree with them at all. I continue to pray for them though.

Chelsea

Hmmm...This has potential to be a long post. Let's see...starting with what you said. Keep in mind that I don't like either candidate okay...

On abortion...I was watching a debate with Obama and McCain. What Obama said on this issue I agree with. I haven't done any kind of in depth research on him, because I don't like him...point blank...period. But he said something along these lines. Obama is for abortion if there is a need for it. As in the complications of carrying a child could potentially be harmful to the mother or the baby. Further more, he is against performing abortions past a certain time frame, when the procedure would be extreme.

When I attended Catholic school, I wrote a paper about abortion. So on this issue I'm personally pretty knowledgeable. This issue is also at the top of my list. So we agree here without a doubt.

I also agree with you on gay marriage, and I don't believe Obama is for gay unions. But I'm not to sure.

I happen to believe some about Global Warming. I do agree with you in that we need to stop depending on foreign oil. I have one word for you here. Bush! That's his family business. Anyways...drilling for oil in the US is fine with me until you start disrupting the wild life. Like in Alaska...they were wanting to drill in the ocean and that would really disrupt the wild life there. My husband calls me an animal activist...so I'm all over saving polar bears, sea lions...etc.

Another HUGE issue for me is the war. And I disagree with McCain on this 100% He's basically continuing the path Bush is on and I don't like it. I have always disliked Bush and that feeling has only gotten stronger. I've had to live the war first hand. My husband was a marine and went to Iraq when the war started. He came home to me a totally different person. And I can tell you, that our own military doesn't want to be there and doesn't know why they are. I fully support a thought out slow retreat..something along the lines of what Hillary had in mind.

And another issue I have is the economy. I just don't think either of them have the tools to help the American people.

Pretty much the fact that McCain has voted with Bush 90% of the time, makes me sick. And Obama I just don't trust.

Dawn

Dawn, well, you have no idea how much fun I am having discussing all this with you! I really am. And I don't mean that pompously. I really am enjoying this!



He may say it, but I don't believe that's true. I don't believe it because of what other types of abortion he supports. He supports partial birth abortion and infanticide! Do you know what infanticide is? It's where babys who survive abortion aren't wanted and are set in a closet with soiled linens to die. I watched a video online where a woman testified to the senate or congress or something like that. It's barbaric! Obama's completely 100% for abortion at any time no matter what the scenario is. If he's for anything, he's for abortion.



Obama says he's not for gay marriage, but he wants the gays to have equal rights. I don't believe him one bit!

I don't really know what to say to you concerning the war. Thousands of people were abused or murdered under Sadam Hussein. Even Bill Clinton said Hussein had to be stopped, but now he's singing a different tune. Nobody wants war, but in order to have peace we have to stop the terrorism. There can't be peace while terrorists are plotting against us.

I don't know about your husband, but I have a cousin who is over in Iraq right now. He was just sent back for the second time because he realized the importance and the value of being there. I personally know of two of my mom's friends who are in the Marines and they feel the same way as my cousin.

I wrote a long post too.

Chelsea

Chelsea I loved how you compared what's going on with what happened in GoF and OotP! I used the same example (a couple weeks ago) to TRY and explain to my cousin my political views (which, by the way, are similar to yours). I think it's a very apt way to explain how the media tends to be glossing over glaring missteps by one party and personally attacking members of the other (very similar to the Daily Prophet/Fudge and Dumbledor/Harry).

Now, before anyone gets offended by what I'm saying, I want to let it be known that I am all about FAIRNESS. If one candidate gets softball questions, then ALL candidates should get softball questions. If one candidate is going to be personally attacked and blind-sided by out-of-context magazine articles then ALL candidates should be subjected to the same treatment. I don't think it's fair for "The View" to fawn all over one candidate and his wife and then to turn around and verbally attack the other candidate and his wife. I don't think it's fair for one party to think Fox NEWS is "biased" because they do not paint rainbows and butterflies about their chosen candidate, get over it, they don't do that for any candidate (remember, this is the NEWS portion, not the opinion portions, which can tend to be biased, but at least one network needs to be with CNN, MSNBC and The View obviously tilting in the other direction).

I'm tired of supporters of BOTH parties claiming Democratic or Republican "rhetoric" or "propaganda" when they do not agree with what is being said by the other side. I think if each voter were to think for him/herself and read ALL information that is available (both good and bad, because it is out there for BOTH parties and sometimes the truth hurts because not everyone is perfect) then we'd be in a much better situation. Why? Because we, as voters, would see what a load of bull both sides are attempting to feed us and perhaps more people like Joe the Plumber or Kim the Waitress or Bill the Artist or Pam the Entrepreneur would have a better shot at public office and we could stop playing politics and start trying to fix our country.

When all is said and done, I'm tired of politics. Every candidate who is running right now, from the President down to the Dog Catcher has a personal agenda. When we can get a candidate that does NOT have a personal agenda but a public agenda, then we'll be headed in the right direction. When every candidate is transparent with nothing to hide (like the origins of his/her birth certificate), then we'll be doing better. Until then, it's politics as usual and nothing will change, no matter what the candidates promise. (am I cynical? unfortunately, yes).

Chelsea, I'm enjoying this also. It's cool to find out whats running through the heads of others.

I guess it's different when you live in a military town. And all you see is yellow bows and all you hear on the news is who died today and watching the spouses and kids cry on TV. It's hard not to notice when the town is full of life and people and when it's deserted from deployments.

Hussein had to be stopped...and he was. Enough is enough. There are always going to be terrorist in the world. We can't kill them all and it's naive to think we can. At the same time, we are repairing a country and watching our own fall apart. It might sound mean, but it's time for the Iraqi people to sink or swim. They have had multiple deadlines to create their government and train their forces, to take over their own country and they haven't been able to get it done the way they said they would. So we are still there...

I understand how you feel about not believing what Obama says, and that's how I feel about BOTH candidates. I don't trust either of them. I find it hard to believe that anyone would be for putting babies in closets to die. Maybe that's my Christian side coming out...I don't know. But I can't see anyone wanting that. Babies that aren't wanted should be put up for adoption. There's no reason to wait for them to die. I just can't wrap my head around that.

Oh, I forgot to mention something else in my last post...in regards to oil. I fully support alternative energy. If we could get away from oil as much as possible I think our country could really benefit from that.

ChannelingGinny, Unfortunately, politicians have their own agenda, and are for those that are more powerful than the rest of us. It's all about doing what they want to get themselves ahead, and occasionally throwing "The People" a bone or two to make sure they are re-elected next term. We won't find a politician that's for the people. I totally agree with all your frustrations. And I personally don't like to watch TV when they are talking about candidates. The media spins things one way or another, using analogies that are outrageous. It's Obama Vs. McCain in a death match. And I'm not interested in hearing all the insignificant back talk. I can't wait until Nov. 4th when this all over!!!

Dawn

I'm going to need a personal trainer if I keep posting like this! LOL

ChannelingGinny, woah! Thanks! That is so cool how you said the same thing to your cousin! Did your cousin understand? And that's great to hear you have some of the same political views as I do. It's always great to hear there are more than just me and my family out there.

I agree with you about fairness. I like how you said it. "If one candidate gets softball questions, then all candidates should get softball questions." Great way of putting it. I hate the way that the news and people like that are picking on Sarah Palin. The one that gets me the most is when they say, how is she going to spend time with her children and be a mom to them if she's in the White House. They haven't asked that of Obama. They didn't ask it of Kennedy. It's unfair. I admire the woman for her strength. She's taken a lot of abuse, but it hasn't swayed her.

Dawn, yes! It is cool so see what other people are thinking!

I don't mean to keep going back to the War, but I can't resist. No offense.



But we can't just sit back and let them threaten our safety and kill innocent people either. They're still threatening us and still want to kill us. Even though Hussein is gone, there are still terrorists and they're still attacking us over there along with other innocent people. The United States has helped out a lot of other countries in the past. It's almost our job. Look at WWII etc. We can't abandon them. And our safety is in danger if we just walk away and turn our backs on them too!



Oh I don't think there's anything wrong with alternative energy either. I think it's great. I don't think of it in the same way as environmentalists, but it's a great way to save money. I wouldn't get solar panels or a windmill to save the planet, but to save money on our electric bill.



There's nothing wrong with that. More people need to let their Christian side come out. Mine is always out in the open. I have a hard time not mentioning God in each post.

Ok, well, I'll give my fingers a rest for a bit.

Chelsea

Ahem...I am joining the discussion.

The problem with Politics is that it is full of lifetime Politicians. It comes down to who has the most backing, the most endorsements and the most money. I won't say it never but I will say it rarely comes down to the interests of the people. The common citizens (the middle class) has no voice and no one is listening to their compliants.
Actually I take that back; the candidates are listening but they have no clue how to rectify the problem and to be honest, once they get into office, they will push their own agenda and go back on every promise they made before the election. Most of the representatives in Washington have been there too long. They have gotten comfortable. They make tons of money and really have lost touch with the struggles of the common family.

This being said, the political party that boast fighting for the middle class is the Democratic party. Unfortunately the line that this party takes on basic issues usually is what has me questioning the kind of person they will be in representing and leading our country. I am pro-life. I am for traditional marriage. I am against the war in Iraq as it has evolved over the years but agree that at the time it started, we needed to be there. We don't anymore. I believe in National Security as it pertains to protecting and providing for the American people, not for America being the World's Police Force. I guess you have to categorize my political views as a moderate independent.

I have issue with lifetime politicians and yet one can't get elected into office without having "experience". I have been told that my politics is wishy washy but I don't think so. I believe a person can have the best interest of the people and still have conservative views that respect life and freedoms. I do not believe that the Federal Government needs to be all up in my business as a parent, and educator nor does it have the right to tell me how I can or cannot defend myself in my own home (via gun control). It is very difficult to find a person who is not playing party politics but just wants to do the right thing.

Why is it Politicians never show the proof of how they voted on certain bills as a way of showing the public their stance on issues? Why is it all we see are smear campaigns. I want to know which way the candidate voted in his respective House or Senate seat. The proof is in the actions they have already committed while holding the office they already have.

Maybe this is why we are married!! I consider myself a moderate to conservative independent. As far as your question goes, politicians don't keep track of what they vote on. Most of the time the right hand doesn't know what the left is doing. Politicians get pulled in every direction by all the different lobbyists so that they can't remember who or what they agreed to vote on. You take away or control the lobbyists and Congress gets back to the fundamental act of For the People by the People instead of For the Big Business by the Big Business! Smear campaigns are like reality TV, its what makes the public watch. If candidates went strictly off of merit and what they have accomplished and what they believe in the American people would turn the channel to something more exciting. I don't think smear tactics are necessary IF the candidate is a solid, moral, upright, person. Lets be honest, those are few and far between.
Our founding fathers weren't the greatest of men but they did do one thing that was the cornerstone of contemporary politics; they listened. The politicians of today need to spend more time on the streets where the people are and get out of the board room. We the people do have a voice and We the People need to be heard. I'm ravensblood and I approve this message!

So..I've made my decision. On Tuesday I'm going to vote. There are some local issues to vote on as well as senate seats and so on. As far as the presidency goes...I just can't decide and I can't bring myself to vote for someone I don't believe in. So I'm just going to put undecided on the ballot. I feel like it's the right thing to do. Besides I highly doubt the presidency will come down to 1 vote.

So...after Tuesday this will be all over! I wonder what the news is going to do after that? and I predict that SNL's ratings will plummet! LOL Who knows...

Dawn

For the sake of it, I'm going to let my political views be known.

I am Pro-Choice. I believe that the decision to bear a child or not is up to the parents - specifically the mother - and that it is so personal a decision, the beliefs of others external to the parents cannot really be justified in making the decision for them.

I am also for gay marriage, as a bisexual woman, and I have a problem with the fact that gay and lesbian couples are unable to enjoy the same legal and economic rights, and the acknowledgment of their love for each other which are enjoyed by their heterosexual counterparts. To me, it comes across as saying that the love members of a same-sex couple bear for each other cannot be as meaningful or long-lasting as the love shared between a man and a woman.

Finally, I do believe to some extent in the theory of global warming. We are running out of fresh water in Australia. I think we should spend more time looking for viable alternatives to oil and less time trying to exploit it in more parts of the world.

It's out there now, so feel free to disagree.

Dawn!! I'm so happy that you're going to vote, even if it isn't for the president! I know that one vote won't change the outcome, but I know so many people who are saying the same thing and they all add up. But I am really excited that you're voting!

I'm so scared right now. The election is only two days away! I'm going to be so tense on Tuesday! I'm sure my family and I will just be praying all day long.

HPnerd_0512, yeah, I do disagree with you. But instead of getting into a heated debate right now, I'm pretty tired, I'll just let you know that I'll be praying for you too.

Night!
Chelsea

Chelsea, there are so many important issues to vote on and the senate seats are important as well, I can't just turn my back completely...you know. But I'm sticking to my gut feeling about the presidency. I know I'll be watching all night Tuesday as the numbers come in. I always do..whether it's for a presidential race or for congress. It's going to be interesting to say the least.


Dawn

Ok, myabe I'll be a foreigner giving an opinion that has nothing to do, as, honestly, I haven't read any of the posts before because of time matters, but don't worry, I'm not going to be against anybody
I'm just very surprised because, today in the news, I found out that in the US, voting isn't obligatory, and people was amazed to see the amount of people who really wanted to vote this year. Maybe it's just because in my country it's just natural, vote it's obligatory even when you're able to make a null vote or to "vote blank", so people simply have to go and you vote in a school close to the place you live. But if it's really that Americans feel encouraged and eager to vote this year, then I'm very glad for you. Only you can make a difference, and change, or at least, be aware of that you've tried to change, this reality, so if you don't even try ... you don't have the right to complain! I think that not only the US needs a change, but all the capitalist world that depends of it, all the world is ruled in part by your country, so I hope, whoever will be chosen between today and tomorrow, that you'll make a good election, or at least, have tried to make a difference. I know maybe my country is not a good example: people simply disgust me, despite I know it's not only here that this happens, when they vote because of their particular interests, but the presidents we've had ...
I'm not in age to vote yet, but when I am, I'll try to vote every time, thinking for 'the greatest good'

HPnerd_0512 you are actually the only person I agree with on this thread honestly.
I am also religious and my religion is against homosexuality too but you know what, not everyone has to be a part of this religion. You cannot force anything on somebody. Therefore, if people choose to be homosexual and marry, why not? Everyone should have equal rights.
Personally, I am not homosexual but still I don't think I am in the position to forbid anything to people who are different. This is not a reason. Nor is this a reason to judge the lifestyle of others. I hate it when people judge mine, so I won't judge other's.

To the War in Iraq: I think the public here has always shown what it thinks about it, in Germany anyway and I have never been so glad to live here really. (Almost)No pseudo-threats to stir us...lalala life can be so nice if you have more to do then fight.

Hey guys!

I am glad to see that everyone is posting their views freely here, without getting too heated and going off-limits. However, I have to remind you two things.

One is to respect others views. Degrading comments on one's beliefs are in no way tolerated. This is a group for those who can discuss like adults, without offending anyone. We all have the right to develop different opinions, but we can not offend others about them in any case. So, please, try to keep that in mind while writing here.

The other reason why I'm posting is staying on-topic. I know that you initially discussed about the propositions of the two candidates, but it slightly got off-topic in the way. This means that subjects such as abortion and homosexuality do not fit in here. If you want to talk about them within reasonable limits, we have other, more appropriate topics. If you really feel the need to express about those, please, do not do so in a political thread.

That being said...you can keep on posting.

Thanks!

Ok, this now is going to be far too short, but I just wanted to say a big CONGRATULATIONS to Obama, the candidate I faithfully expected to win, and I believe that the hopes of most of the world are put on him, so good luck!

All I want to say is Thank God it's OVER!!! I don't know if Obama winning is good thing or a bad thing...I don't know if McCain would be any better. I'm just glad it's over, I voted for the candidate that I truly believed in to begin with...and I can say that the name wasn't on the ballet, I wrote it in. So, I hope Obama does good things and doesn't mess us up even more.

Dawn

I will second that, Thank God it is Over. Our political season is way too long and too much money is spent on an elective office that pays $400,000 per year. I believe the figure I saw was that 5.3 Billion, with a "B", was spent from beginning to end. I saw this in an AP story today.


We get a whole two weeks of vacation until the next Presidential election cycle starts. For those outside the US, the 2012 Iowa Caucus is the start of the next US Presidential election. All politicians start their campaign there. That poor state is going to have to endure a lot of hot air from all the politicians heading there this winter to start their 2012 campaign.

OH BOY! Just when I thought it was over LOL. Well on the bright side I don't live in Iowa. I do feel sorry those who do though. Everyone needs a break from politics. I thought the news would be settling down, but they are still going strong with political news. I'm to the point where I don't want to watch the news at all! Oh well..I'll just stick with Sports Center LMAO!

Dawn

My feasible hopes was that Obama would be elected as president. But my unrealistic hopes (which I would have preferred) was that Independent Nader would be president. I really felt that a business man like Nader was the man for the job in our economic crisis. Congratulations to all that were elected!

There is an interesting political situation happening in Canada right now, and although it doens't really fit in with the Obama conversation that was going on, I think it would be interesting to share.

First, a brief tutorial on Canadian government for those who are not sure, or nedd a reminder. We have a Prime Minister as our leader, who, with his political party make the decisions. Then the party who recieved the second highest number of votes during the election becomes the official opposition who leads debates against the Prime Minister. The rest of the parties are also in the opposition. Then there is the Governer General who represents the queen. She can step in if she thinks the government is doing something wrong.

Now onto the situation. Stephen Harper(the Prime Minister) introduced a plan a few days ago. It was to help with the economic trouble, but there was one problem with his idea--it is going to give the other parties less money for their campaigns, and more money to him. As you can imagine, the other parties were mad--but they didn't blow up. Instead, there are talks and conferences going on between the opposition. THier plan is for all of them to join together and all become the government.

Stephen Harper, after hearing the other parties plans became very worried and began to campaign across the country to gain support. I attached links to a couple things.The first is a blog from a political satirist, who mad a few good points. The second is a news article and the last is a video clip that explains things well.

Interesting Ideas...
Article
Video

So, what do the duellers think?

-Kel

I live in the US, and I'm a democrat. There are just too many things about the republican party that I don't like. I like the idea of a limited government, but really, I think the libertarian party is the only party that really adheres to that idea. I think the democrats restrict economic freedom and the republicans restrict social freedoms (with the exception being gun control).

There are some things I disagree with the democratic party about. But I disagree with the republican party even more.

This topic definitely needs something to liven up. So here we go...

As some of you may know, last Sunday the European elections took place, where members of European countries vote for their representatives in the European Council. There are several issues to discuss (like for example why did so many people abstain from voting?), but the most interesting in my opinion is this.

According to the article, a Swedish party supporting content piracy won a seat in the European Parliament. I'm pretty sure this has never happened before, and that no politicians have ever suggested abolishing copyright laws, so this is a first for all of us.

What do you think about that? Did people vote this party out of disappointment from other "serious" politicians? Do you think they gained credibility, having the power to fight now for pro-piracy laws? Is it a joke?

Share your views with us!

I am more liberal than conservative but in terms of abortion and the right to life I am 100% conservative... its morally and fundamentally wrong. I understand differentiation and all that stuff but my views go with the church in that immediately after conception there is an unborn baby waiting to be born even before differentiation. In almost every other aspect I would be considered liberal however.