This is the link to the post hpfreak was referring to.

BTW, you do realise that you are just offering an opinion, don't you? You make it sound as though you were offering a fact. Please be careful how you express yourself - that's the way that misunderstandings and quarrels occur......

I'm in two minds about this one.

My personal opinion is that Sirius is dead or alive - nowhere in between, if you get my drift. However, even if he is dead I think his character is too important, for some reason, not to come back or be contacted in some way.

I think we'll definately be seeing more of him in the next two books. Hopefully! I may just be trying to convince myself of course lol

I kinda think Sirius is "undead" ...

falling through The Veil may have caused him an unnatural death, so perhaps not all dead people are visible behind The Veil (dun dun dunnnn) only those who actually fell through it. I guess the veil has to have come from somewhere... the books seem to imply magic replacing religion so i don't think God dropped it on the Ministry (correct me puhleeeeez) so someone must have made it.

Perhaps someone in the Dept. of Mysteries was trying to create something to reverse death, or simply an execution thingy, or something... it's an embodiment of an abstract principle; like the time stuff and the brains i guess... huh that's weird...





start flaming......NOW!

Oh, I don't think there's anything in the books to imply magic replacing religion - and that's a very contentious thing to be saying!! I'm not religious personally, but there are a lot of people around here who are, so you want to be careful making comments like that... You might get flayed alive....

Anywho, to get vaguely back on topic, the theory about the veil being a method of execution has been mentioned before and I certainly believe that it is connected to death in some way, whether that be through executions or through the study of the mechanisms of death.

Hmm....but that's off topic too because there's a separate thread around here about what exactly the veil is.....

Could be true.

Could it be that Dementors can go threw?
Mayby they can...

I think there is another world behind the veil. With horrible creatures, or mayby it's something between hell, earth and heaven?

You know what people say about heaven and aerth? They say there is a place between, where you can rest. It's a place where you can wait untill it's time for you to go to heaven...mayby the veil is something like that.

maybe when you've went through the Veil you come so far that you can choose either to become a ghost or you can go on, just like sisius did. Harry asked nearly-headless-nick, and he said that they were studying this in the DOM.

Ist'nt it so that you can't choose weither your a ghost or dead?
Ghost are people/animals who haven't finish a job or who died unhappy?

that's in Casper the friendly ghost or what it's called...
In HP you can choose to be either a ghost or die and go on to the place who noone knows what's like. nearly-headless-nick said it in the end of OoTP.

Thanks, I thought you can't choose weither your a ghost or die.

However, I think we'll hear some more of Sirius, weither he's dead or living...

I dont know, but sirus was hit by a spell. and by the way he and Bellatrix were fighting, it was the avada Kedavra curse. But i hope not! But it said in the book that Sirus had a surprised look on his face when he got hit. Isnt that what happend to Hermione? when she got hit, and wasnt it Bellatrix who hit her with that spell? Maybe Bellatrix hit Sirus with the same spell?

I was reading "fantastic beasts and where to find them", and something caught my eye. it may be something, or it may be nothing, but i thought i'd post my musings and see what you all think. there is mention of a creature named a "lethifold or living shroud." it's characteristics are very similar to the veil, and i was wondering if it were possible that that's what the veil is. i don't even know if it would have any significance if it were a lethifold, since i think it's pretty clear that sirius is dead. any thoughts?

I severley doubt its anything remotly close to the Veil. Heres some quotes of what the Leifold is:

"The Lethifold is a mercifully rare creature found solely in Tropical Climates. It resembles a black cloak perhaps half an inch thick (thicker if recently killed and digested a victim), which glides along the ground at night."

Heres why it could Not be the Veil:

1. London is not Tropical.
2. The Veil was upright, not on the floor.
3. Sirius was not sleeping when he fell into it.
4. the Veil was not moving, except when the drapes swayed in the wind.


Also:

"Once the prey has been sucessfully suffocated, the Lethifold digests its food there and then in their bed."

Sirius fell directly into it, he did not get suffocated first. and he was surely not eaten.

Although Cassandra, you made good research and your thought of wonder was good enough. Nice try though.

~HP-fan

well i have no idea what the veil is so what I suggest is that we wait and find out when j.k.rowling is ready to tell us what it is

Well the veil is in the department of mysteries, like the profecies and its in an important place. I think the veil is a door between the dead and the living world. They probably decided that it was too dangerous to interact with the worlld of the dead, so they kept that veil out of public sight. It is a strange thing with the mirror that harry own to see sirius, I think harry will be able to see him in that mirror, but sirius won't be able to come back to the living world.

i dont think jkr would leave soo many questions unanswered. if someone was dead, she would make it clear. and sirius didnt even fully go behind the veil actually. it says his back arched into it and he fell down. meaning his legs were outside the veil? eh, i dont understand why just because someone goes behind a veil they die. what if they put their hand behind the veil and just stood there? are they dead now? its confusing. and dumbledore could be wrong. i think people behind the veil are just like gone, not dead. luna and harry could hear them, maybe bcuz they're crazy-ish, i duno. i dont.... i wont, believe sirius is dead.

I think the veil is a door between the dead and the living world.

gosh i think your right. why else would it be in there (dom) if it wasnt to be studied. they must study death if i am correct dumbledore said that it was studied. it could be a sort of portal to heaven or where ever the dead are. if used properly it could hold much more than a portal they must study death in a certain wait.

"gasps" oh i cant wait till half blood prince only 67 days to go- 9/05/05

my theory is that the viel is an abstract but real one way path to death itself, not death as a persona, but as in the broad black nothing that is when you die. no afterlife as yet i can discern, the concept is too obscure. the fear comes from the instionct to live. crossing the viel is not-life, you almost become nothing.
?
oh well..

I think Emma is right...JKR wouldnt leave this many unanswered questions thats just not her style...and she is shown us before that what may appear to be is not always what it is..thats what makes her writing so unique! I think we havent seen the last of Sirrius and the veil is going to play a role in the final books

I think we will at least get an answer to the question we're trying top figure out here: What exactly is the veil and what's exactly behind it?? There just has to be some kind of explanation sooner or later, I don't think Jk would leave us like this. And I also think Harry needs an explanation of what is it that his godfather dissapeared behind of.

ya! you really got a point for that.
but you know.... i think sirius is not dead.
i think he had just fall from that veil.

as what you've said, the veil is in the death chamber.....
sirius could probably be dead......
but you know i really love sirius' character
actually, for me he's one of the coolest characters in hp!
what do you think???

I am afraid to say but I think that Sirrius in human form is gone for good...will he come back,,,IMHO yes, I do think he will, but it wont be as a human, not even a ghost (as Nearly Headless Nick has already told us) but in SOME form he will be back..JKR wouldnt just write out a character that has that much importance...I just want to know what the veil is exactly.. is it even a tangable thing?? or just something not really liquid, not really solid like the pensieve..???

The department of Mysteries was very scary as the veil was I think that they are connected to siruis's death I don't know but Im not entirly sure Sirus is gone for good I sure hope he's not!!!!!!!!!!!

I think that Sirius never will be gone as long as thode who loves him keeps him in their hearts. Sirius maybe give Harry strenght sometime, after he comes over his death. I wonder if we are ever to talk to him again, not in person but in understanding, see, you just think and suddenly Someone's talking to you, you just understand what to do and why and why you understood it.

I wonder how it looks like behind the viel. Just white light or whatever.
Can you just open the Veil and look behind it, ot will you then jus see right through on the other side. You have to step through to come there.. can someone answer me this? I doubt someone can, but I anywho have a cllue or an answer?

we dont really know what it looks like behind the veil because if you go back there you die..just as we saw with Sirrius' death...so unless Harry goes back there I dont think we will ever know..(as the books are written through Harry;s eyes) and that would me Harry dies...unless Sirrius comes back somehow and tells us?? which is likely..

As I have read in numerous Veil theories, the oddest thing about Sirius's disappearance (I won't say death, because those words have yet to be used in the book) is that only Harry and Luna saw it. This is odd because only Harry and Luna had previously witnessed death, as they were the only ones able to see the Thestrals. Why would JKR not have anybody else new see Sirius die? Answer: Because then THEY would be able to see the Thestrals, and we would know Sirius is dead.

So something isn't right about that. Logic points to Sirius being alive in some form, but in what form? Will he still be able to send messages to Harry, a la Obi Wan in Star Wars to Luke? Or will he return altogether?

Whatever the situation is, I think the answer lies in Lupin, as he seemed to be the only person at the scene with a grasp of what happened to him. Harry HAS to go searching for answers in Book 6, and somebody is bound to know this answer, whether it is Voldy, Dumbledore, or Lupin.

Yeah, Voldemort. Now there's an interesting idea. Say Harry becomes so upset about Sirius that it SEEMS he would do anything for answers? Voldy could TRY (key word: try) to lure Harry to him using the promise of answers about Sirius. But then something could get in his way, and somebody important to Harry... maybe Ron? would sacrifice himself so that Harry wouldn't make the mistake of going to join Voldemort. For the first time in the series, we could see Harry almost as the hindrance to the plot to stop Voldemort rather than the hero, and would put a bit of perspective in there for book 7. If Voldemort can almost corrupt Harry, that is just another example of how powerful he really is with his words.

Maybe none of that makes sense at all, but it is at least interesting to think about.

if you keep dreaming about eating marsmallows, then stop sleeping, you wont ever go mad, honest

MOD EDIT : Excuse me?? Please do not post if you have nothing to contribute to the discussion of the thread.

Darth Voldemort - thats WAY too Star War-ish. I dont think he'll believe Voldemort of ALL people that he can bring his parents back like he'd actually be that nice..didnt he try that in SS and harry said no immediatley? Well anyway..it wasnt Harry and Luna that saw him die it was Harry and NEVILLE..which doesnt change what you said but you had the wrong people.

and graeme -what in the world are you talking about?

you know, thats a very very good theory, but i have no idea what you have jus said, so i dont realy know...

MOD EDIT : graeme, did you not see Ash's comments up there? This is the last time we're going to let you post when you have nothing constructive to say. Further posts like this will be deleted.

Sirius is dead. I could say that a million times and not belive it. In fact just last night I woke my sister up and said "Sirius is dead." bluntly and she rolls her eyes and then practically jumps down my throat. Anyway, sorry if thats out of topic, I just had to say it. I don't think Sirius can be alive . He would've come back when Harry called him. Death and the dead 'live' behind the veil. There are there, they just can't come back. Would Harry hear Sirius whispering if he listened?

What would happen if someone only placed a foot through the viel would they live or die or share some other fate with sirius? donno if this has been touched before but if someone could answer this or ppl discuss this that would be great!

Hmm. Interesting. I was wondering this myself as I re-read that section where Harry is staring at the viel. Dunno if it's in the other thread about Harry going through the viel. But I seriously have no idea of the answer.

This might not be relevant but I noticed it. If veil=evil evil=live, they are all spelled with the same four letters v-v-e-i-l l-i-v-e e-v-i-l

hmm, i thought maybe you hear the whispering of the people you've seen die, like luna said that she heard them behind the veil, maybe harry heard cedric

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Just thought i'd put in my two cents.
My theory for the origin of the veil is that the department of mysteries was mucking around trying to create some way of travel that didn't require a spell so you could just step through the veil and end up where you wanted to be, so basicly a portal, or someting along those lines. Unfortunatly (or possible fortunatly) something unexpected happened and they accidently created a portal to another demention, possibly to where you go after you die and after they found out that you have issuses coming back out after you go in they put in that room for studying (hence the ampatheatre room thingy) to see what exactly it was and to keep people from accidently going through it. If anybody here has read dragonlance there's something relativly similar about a portal to the abyss that was accidentaly created and that's where i got the first part of my theory.
I also think that Dunbledore knows much more than he's telling about the veil. He's not exactly the most straitfoward peoson there is. Even though he's said that Sirius is dead i'm not inclined to take that at face value, he might even be straight out lieing. something about the part where he tells Harry Sirius died just seemed a little off to me.
I would also like to put in that in the Orpheus in the underworld myth he doesn't quite resuse his wife, they almost get out but then he messes it up at the last moment. But then again who says it has to match up with the myth exactly.
Sorry, i know that was considerably more than two cents. I just have a tendincy to ramble.

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What about if you tie yourself and jump in? Will anybody be able to pull you back out?

Or what if you just stick your head in and peek? hmm

hmm.. this is really confusing, this veil.. If you put your head in there, what would you see? The nether world og the wizards? and could you talk to them. I hope we're going to hear more about the veil in future books.

well i highly doubt the tie you by a rope and through you into the netherworlds is gonna woork but what if you just put a camera with a light in it or lift the viel in the archway up would be able to see in?

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I believe that JK is going to take everything HP finds as a loving figure away from him, so in the end when his fate to duel Voldemort comes time, he will have enough emotional anger and will become man anough to defeat him. [COLOR=blue]

But I dont think she is going to take away Hermione and Ron because they are the brains and loyalty Harry needs the most.

That has nothing to do with the topic of this thread.

And please read the rules. Double posting is not allowed. If you want to add/edit something, click on the "Edit" button at the top right of your post instead of posting again.

It hints to what is behind the veil on page 863:

"I'm sorry," Harry mumbled.
"Yes, it was was rather horrible," said Luna conversationally. "I still feel very sad about it sometimes. But I've still got Dad. And anyway, it's not as though I'll never see Mum again, is it"
"Er - isn't it?" said Harry uncertainly.
She shook her head in disbelief. "Oh, come on. You heard them, just behind the veil, didn't you?"
"You mean..."
"In that room with the archway. They were just lurking out of sight, that's all. You heard them."
They looked at each other. Luna was smiling slightly. Harry did not know what to say, or to think. Luna believed so many extraordinary things...yet he had been sure he had heard voices behind the veil too...

That's why I think that behind the veil is where people go when they die. I do, however, believe that Sirius is dead, and that Harry really will not be able to talk to him again, at least not until he dies.

I think the whole idea of the Veil is read way too much into, dare I say mainly by those who wish to have Sirius still be alive. The Veil, like death, is a mystery, and if man in his wisdom was never able to discover the secrets of death over thousands of years of existence, then I doubt Harry Potter is going to unravel the very same mystery in a fictional year's time.

I think the point JKR is trying to make is that death, in times of division and tragedy, is cruel and unforgiving. Just like that, we can lose someone to that great mystery that is death. That's not to say I'm denying that Sirius will never be back in any form whatsoever. We've already seen characters (Voldemort, Nearly Headless Nick, and even the portraits) who've either manipulated death or find existence after life.

However, I think the focus should be turned away from "Is Sirius alive?" and "What's the mystery of the Veil?". Rather, I think it should be on the repurcussions it has on Harry's state of mind. It will be interesting to see if Harry is able to accept Sirius's death, and be able to accept death in general.

Okay. Excuse for my stupid moment here, but did Harry and them even go behind the veil to check it out? I mean, hello, it could mean nothing and it's just a veil that Sirius happened to fall through when he died. I don't think this is true, but I just thought, why didn't they look behind it to check if he was there, just dead??

In my opinion : when Luna said "it's not like I'm not going to see her again" she ment that she will see her mother after she dies.

I also think that the veil is where people go when they die, so the people behind the veil that Harry heard were dead.

Harry and Luna weren't the only ones who could hear voices behind the veil, if you will read that part again you will see that Jinny heard voices either.