I think we need a thread for the Veil. there are so many comments and theories about it.
first off, Veil = Evil but Veil = Live also. that could be something to think about. There's also the point that the veil was in the Death Chamber. get it? the DEATH CHAMBER. So that is why I think Sirius is dead. plus, Dumbledore knows everything and he knows Sirius is dead so i believe him. ^__^ what are some of your opinions?


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I don't believe tht DD knows everything. He may know a lot but that's about it. Any way just looking at your post Laura you put Veil-Evil-Live. Well what if it some how means Evil Live. Meaning that if Evil passes through the Veil it will live on but good won't.

I agree with Triad in that Dumbledore does not know everything. This was proven in the fifth book when Dumbledore actually made mistakes. *gasp* Yes, it's true. Dumbledore isn't as perfect as we thought he was. We actually saw that everything just doesn't magically turn out perfectly the second Dumbledore shows up, and that he is still human.

I think that the veil is kind of like a gateway into the world of the dead. Something living can't be in the world of the dead, so that's why I think Sirius is dead and gone.

That's a good point, Triad! Evil live. Ohhh... That just might mean something!

sound really creepy!! evil living................mayb its a key thing to one of the books....hmmm jus mayb

No it could not be it oculd turn out EVIL TOO :twisted:

Totally dif. point but i hope Harry does mamage to speak to or at least get to see Sirius again.It was so sad.Thats now all his close adults figures gone :cry:

i think that it is sad too that sirius died. what if he wasnt meant to die. it could have been someone else that was meant to die that day. who knows...

I dont think that the spelling of veil have something to do with it.Why?

In French Veil is Voile and you can't change the letters to make any other word.Well you can't make mal(evil) or vie(live).You would be able to change it too in any other language.Tom Marvolo Riddle had changed in French(Tom Elvis Jedusor) so it could make 'Je suis Lord Voldemort'.

I think that Luna was right about the veil...I don't think that people in there are death, I'm sure they will come back later because Sirius was not death, he felt behind the veil.

But it's also might be the place where those who don't want to be ghost go.They have to go somewhere.I did not read about any cemetery...

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i dont think it matter either about the spelling of the veil

Hi,

Lately I reread the part about the veil and i noticed somthing strange. Harry could here whispering coming from behind the veil and so could Luna but Hermiony and the others did not be able to hear it. Could it be something like the thestrals that you have to witness somebody die?

Maybe..But maybe it's just a teaser to attract more people.They let them think that people are behing it..?

But what happen after that Veil?
They just death and thats all, cause maybe theres a way they can come back, because in the 5th book, when they passed near that room they heard voices coming from that door!, so i think maybe its some way to find an exit!

We don't know but I think it could be possible.

The place where the archway stands that holds the veil is described as an amphitheatre it resembles a courtroom. It contains benches around it. Maybe it is a kind of ancient place to kill convicted criminals, like an guilotene?

QUOTE

The place where the archway stands that holds the veil is described as an amphitheatre it resembles a courtroom. It contains benches around it. Maybe it is a kind of ancient place to kill convicted criminals, like an guilotene?

i think you are right, it does sound like that kind of place.

I disagree with Sirius being dead. In an interview she said this:
" Kelpie_8: Will the two way mirror Sirius gave Harry ever show up again?
JK Rowling replies -> Ooooo good question. There's your answer.
.....
SiriuslyLovinSirius: If we ever see Sirius again, what form will he be in?
JK Rowling replies -> I couldn't possibly answer that for fear of incriminating myself."

incriminating means like giving herself away. This interview was the one in March. SO even though she said she cried when she 'killed' sirius off, i dont think he is really and truely dead.

I think he might come back through like i donno... something and be able to talk to Harry for an hour or 30 minutes just to tell hime that its not his fault that he died and that he'll see him later when Harry's old. As for the Veil, there has to be more to it. Cuz, J.K. Rowling kinda just threw it and Sirius' death in there at the end. I think Lupin or Moody will explain more about it in book 6. I also think the mirror has something to do with the next book. She made it perfectly clear that Harry threw the mirror into his trunk and it shattered. I keep wondering since Sirius didn't have his mirror with him when he died what would happen if Harry went back to the DoM and threw the mirror though the Veil. Would Sirius get it? Would Harry be able to talk to him, or would someone else get the mirror (like one of the people whose voice he heard)? Hmmmm.... Just wondering.

This isn't my idea,so im not going to take credit for it (though i don't remember where i read it either), but its interesting nonetheless. Though Dumbledor isn't always right, when it comes to magical knowlege he knows a lot. Seeing as how the Veil is a known magical object I would venture to say that Dumbledor knows what he is talking about and the Sirius is dead. Now, the interesting part is the voices of people that can be heard through the veil. I know it isn't likely, but what if they were trapped souls... The souls of the dementors and the ones they have performed the kiss on. What if when you step through the veil you somehow are transformed into a dementor. Wouldn't that be a trip? I know it isn't likely I re-read the fifth book not too long ago and when reading it I thought this less likely, but its an interesting theory anyway.

Ooo, good point. I never thought about that. Though it is unlikely, it could possiblely happen. I wonder if we'll ever find out what happened to those demontors who once had a soul.... you know what i mean.

does anyone think that sirius can come back as a ghost??

no. Nearly Headless Nick, said he can't/.

you know, even thouhg i dont belive shell jsut bring him back, i havent really fully realized that sirius is dead yet, or what thatll mean for harry. its kinda like how harry felt at first. ill need some grieving time over the summer (in harrys world. lol) i want book 6 to come out!!!

Oh, i totally agree. Sirius' death probably wont fully hit ne of us until book 6.

yeah, its just hard to imagine sirius NOT being there.

it is gona be sad to see harry so depressed!!

yeah, i know. *tear* but Jo said in the faq section of her website that the mirror would have a role in the next book, maybe ithas something to do with Sirius

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I think that the veil is just like the stage in between life and death. Maybe behind the veil is somewhere where you can consult with the dead without using a psycic (lol). Maybe Sirius is trapped inside. Maybe the voices heard by Harry and Luna are only meant to be heard by people who know and witnessed someone die (kinda like the threstrals). But I am really confused about it. :?

i think that harry will be able to contact sirius or his parents with the mirror

Ooo, yeah. Wasn't Ginny staring at the veil in a kind of longing like Harry was and Luna was?

The veil holds many mysteries, hence why its in the department of mysteries.
i personally think that the voices are spirits or souls of some sort.
and maybe you can only hear them if you've seen death, like the thestrals.

Maybe. I definately agree it holds many mysteries, but the question is are the mysteries bad or good ones?

my guess is bad, if the veil killed sirius, he wasnt dead before he fell through.

The Question is: How do you become a ghost and why can't Sirius come back as one? (unless I've totally skipped that part in the book?) :?

No, i think jo said she'd explain that in book 7. All she said in an interview was that the happiest people don't become ghosts. so i think that to come back as a ghost you have to have a sad life??? I have no idea if that makes sense.

I'm still going along with my theory of unfinished business. To become a ghost, you have to have unfinished business. Like in Casper....

[quote]I'm still going along with my theory of unfinished business. To become a ghost, you have to have unfinished business. Like in Casper....[/quote]

But Casper and JKRowling are different story tellers... There is no set standard for fiction, so it might be completely different.

Very true. But it kind of fits when you look at the Hogwarts ghosts.

Well firstly I think that the veil holds spirits and souls. And Casper and JK Rowling have different interpretations. Unfinished business is not what JK has in mind. I think she said she'll explain this whole ghost thing in book 7.

But how do you know that she doesn't have "unfinished business" in her mind? After all she has loads of unfinished business to attend to. (Writing books six and seven)

XP

I'd like to know if Sirius was dead before he fell through the veil. As in, did the curse kill him? Or was he only injured, but fell through the veil, and that killed him?

I don't think the spelling of veil has anything to do with it. Most likely it's a veil, and that's why it's called a veil.

I'm pretty sure Sirius will appear in the future books (as someone else said, JKR said that the mirror would play a role). I'm not sure how this will happen.. but Sirius did escape from Azkaban (something never done before). It's not impossible that he can do something unprecedented from behind the veil.

Dog....and death. The grim means death. *blink* Umm......maybe the spell didn't die and he fell through the veil, but then transformed into a dog? But wouldn't he make noise? Hmm.....so if the mirror will play a role....I have no idea.

But maybe he did the dog thing and escaped somehow. Or is escaping.

I am really upset that Sirius died. :cry: I feel sorry for Harry but also Remus Lupin! Because now he is the last of the Marauders - wormtail doesn't count b'cuz he is a traitor!!! :twisted: I wish we knew more about the veil, maybe Rowling will explain more in the next book *fingers crossed*

Many people on this forum have interestng theories concerning the veil, that's all I had to say at the moment...

The spelling? I seriously doubt it. Even though a girl from Canada mentioned that Tom Riddle's name work out the same way in french (2 cool, dude ), I don't think JKR would do it again.

Does it actually say in the books that Harry broke the mirror? Please respond to this question, as I don't remember that part... down w/ Scabbers :twisted:

Yes, Harry broke the mirror. I have the book right here..

QUOTE

Harry remained quite still for a moment, then hurled the mirror back into the trunk where it shattered. ... He got up and began throwing his things pell-mell into the trunk on top of the broken mirror --

He could probably repair the mirror, though.. things with glass have been repaired in the books before.. like Harry's glasses and some windows. =D

I have just had a thought....
Why doesn't Harry go back in time and save Sirius like he did in the 3rd book? :?
Emily :wink:

Yeah, Hermione probably got rid of it. And you can't just go back in time; because it's against the law and it defies the laws of life itself. Dunno if that makes sense, but just because something goes wrong, that doesn't mean that you can just go back in time and fix it. Sirius just had to die.

I was reading OotP last night and specifically this chapter. (If I'm repeating something someone else said just let me know. I tried to read over all the posts first but I didn't want to forget what I was going to say.) What I realized this time around but not the first time I read it was that the room looked like the room where Harry had his trial. Instead of the chair with the chains it was the arch with the viel. When Dumbledore called it the Death Chamber it clicked for me. This must be like a wizards version of and electric chair or gas chamber. In the muggle world convicts get a death sentance. Maybe that's what the viel is. I don't know how the guilty would get sentanced to it but our guilty sit on death row for years and years. Maybe the death eaters that were in Azkaban were just waiting on "Death row". Lupin knew right away that Sirius was gone...he must know what the viels purpose is. It is odd however that Harry and Luna could here voices. Hermione and the others didn't but they were sort of enchanted by it. She had to pull them away. She was the only one who didn't seem to have their eyes "stuck" on it.

It's all just theory...hopefully it will get answered in the next book and she won't skip to 7 before it gets addressed.

.....Yes, I think TriadofDarkness mentioned that in some other thread or in this very thread, lol. But I KNOW she mentioned it. It is a good theory though.